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Mississippi - the Nation's Leader In Vaccination Rates
HughPickens.com writes The NYT reports that Mississippi — which ranks as one of the worst states for smoking, obesity and physical inactivity — seldom is viewed as a leader on health issues. But it is one of two states that permit neither religious nor philosophical exemptions to its vaccination program. Only children with medical conditions that would be exacerbated by vaccines may enroll in Mississippi schools without completing the immunization schedule, which calls for five vaccines. With a vaccination rate of greater than 99.7%, Mississippi leads the national median by five percentage points and has the country's highest immunization rate among kindergarten students.
However, in recent weeks, the nearly unbending nature of Mississippi's law requiring students to be vaccinated has been in jeopardy, with two dozen lawmakers publicly supporting an exemption for "conscientious beliefs" turning Mississippi into one more battleground between medical experts who champion vaccinations and parents who fear the government's role in medical decision-making. "We have been a victim of our success, and people don't realize how bad these diseases are," said Mississippi state epidemiologist, Dr. Thomas E. Dobbs III, before lawmakers met to consider a bill that would have expanded exceptions to the vaccine requirement. Members of the education committee for the House of Representatives, in effect, endorsed the state's current approach. By a voice vote, they advanced a heavily amended version of the bill that now calls for only technical changes to Mississippi's law, which has been largely untouched since the late 1970s. The amended version of House Bill 130 puts into law the state's existing practice of granting medical waivers to children whose physicians request them, and in doing so, removes the Mississippi Department of Health's ability to deny such requests. "If a medical professional thinks it's wise not to vaccinate, then that will be the gospel," said House Education Committee Chairman John Moore, R-Brandon.
However, in recent weeks, the nearly unbending nature of Mississippi's law requiring students to be vaccinated has been in jeopardy, with two dozen lawmakers publicly supporting an exemption for "conscientious beliefs" turning Mississippi into one more battleground between medical experts who champion vaccinations and parents who fear the government's role in medical decision-making. "We have been a victim of our success, and people don't realize how bad these diseases are," said Mississippi state epidemiologist, Dr. Thomas E. Dobbs III, before lawmakers met to consider a bill that would have expanded exceptions to the vaccine requirement. Members of the education committee for the House of Representatives, in effect, endorsed the state's current approach. By a voice vote, they advanced a heavily amended version of the bill that now calls for only technical changes to Mississippi's law, which has been largely untouched since the late 1970s. The amended version of House Bill 130 puts into law the state's existing practice of granting medical waivers to children whose physicians request them, and in doing so, removes the Mississippi Department of Health's ability to deny such requests. "If a medical professional thinks it's wise not to vaccinate, then that will be the gospel," said House Education Committee Chairman John Moore, R-Brandon.
well, someone had to post it.
Coincidence or Medicaid?
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Parents are granted a tremendous amount of leeway over what to do with their children. But at the end of the day, children are not "things" for parents to do with as they wish. They're people. A parent may have a sincere and deeply held belief that children don't actually need to eat, that if they meditate enough they can gather the energy they need from the sun. But that doesn't mean that Child Protective Services aren't going to get involved if the parents refuse to feed their child. No, there's no easy definition for where the line between parental rights / belief dominate and where child abuse begins should be. But there must be a line.
And ignoring the fact that the person we're talking about here is too young to make informed decisions, even if that wasn't the case, it still wouldn't be a reasonable argument. Even if we were talking about adults, while you're free to endanger yourself to your heart's content, you don't have the right to endanger others. You may feel that drunk driving is perfectly safe and it's just your personal choice and drunk driving laws are an infliction on your freedom of movement, but the law sees it differently for damned good reason, and you will be punished if caught. Want to endanger yourself? Fine, go do it. Want to endanger me? Nope, and thank $DEITY that there are laws and law enforcement to stop you. You don't have an inalienable right to put your neighbors at risk of mowing them over with your car, and you don't have an inalienable right to walk around them as a disease vector.
I would have you sign my banana, but it's on the roof.
Does Mississippi have more Autistic children than other states with lower vaccination rates? I think that should be looked at so maybe we can show that this is not the cause of Autism.
Its because they don't have internet, so don't know they should be scared of vaccinations.
In ancient Rome the children where legally the property of the father until they where old enough.
Some states in USA do the same, they allow the parents to make choices for their children that are scientifically proven to be deadly in certain circumstances. Thereby the USA are legally stating that in the eyes of the state, children are the legal property of their parents in certain cases.
con- against, anti
No, "contra-" means against. "Con-" means "with".
Your "conscientious" rights don't include the right to put other kids who *can't* get immunized at risk (or adults who weren't immunized as kids). If you want to conscientiously object to getting your kid immunized, then a school should have the right to conscientiously refuse to admit your kid. Create a special conscientious school or something and keep the fuck away from the rest of us.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
I think medicaid could be a factor. I'm from Canada, so I really like my tax funded healthcare. I think that specifically funding certain things like vaccinations to assure that everybody can receive them without cost is a huge advantage to the entire country. I can see why some people wouldn't want to pay for somebody else's knee surgery, or heart transplant if they brought it on themselves by their own lifestyle, but things like vaccinations help the entire population, are just about every person is born susceptible to these diseases. So it makes sense to make sure that as many people as possible are immunized. If somebody isn't immunized, then even the rich people who are insured are at risk in the event that their infants are too young to be vaccinated, or couldn't be vaccinated because of medical complications.
Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
Constipation - Antipack
Conquest - Antihunt
Yep. It works.
Its because they don't have internet, so don't know they should be scared of vaccinations.
Seems like a 99.7% vaccination rate would be the perfect data pool in which to prove or disprove your paranoia.
What say you, Mississippi statistics? (taking into account the McFood Pyramid that is quite popular in the south of course)
Vaccines cause smoking, obesity and physical activity in addition to autism? Why does anyone get them?
"Perinatal or early childhood transmission may also account for more than one third of chronic infections in areas of low endemicity..."
-Source: WHO
http://www.who.int/mediacentre/factsheets/fs204/en/
But underlying all this, it seems that the US American belief that you should have the complete right as a parent to decide how to raise your children, even if it is against their well being, is not new. I clearly remember 'Huckleberry Finn', and the description of his father who falls in the same category as those people that are opposed to vaccination (for whichever reason). And that was written 130 years ago.
(Google it) Therefore, only dumb people get their kids vaccinated
Why? It's not like infections only happen in schools. Or that students spend 100% of their time at school. Look at the Disneyland outbreak.
I think that you are under the impression that it is ONLY transmitted via sex or needles.
I think GP means the 'conscientious objection' that would basically allow any parent to refuse the vaccinations for any reason they see fit.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
I'm a moderate anti-vaxxer
I expect the Slashdot crowd will be by soon enough to burn a giant effigy of a syringe on your lawn. No robes, just Guy Fawkes masks.
I'm no antivaxxer, but do they have the lowest rates of autism, or merely the lowest /diagnosed/ rates? Given their poverty one can imagine fewer people going to the doctor in those states.
Hep B can be contracted in many ways. The hepatitis virus is extremely hardy as compared to other similar systemic diseases' virii, for example, HIV is far more delicate and cannot survive outside the body for long. Hep B hangs around on surfaces for much longer; if someone with Hep B bleeds on something and then a kid touches it, they can contract Hep B.
It's not always unprotected sex and illegal drug use. Sometimes it's a kid touching something.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
Don't be ridiculous. It's obviously because of vaccinations and not:
*having one of the highest premature birth rates in the nation *obesity during pregnancy (Mississippi leads the nation in obesity too) *widespread poverty *an incredibly high rate of teenage birthsWhen someone says, "Any fool can see
Why do you hate America? /s
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
By "moderate anti-vaxxer", you mean "I've got Dunning-Kruger and think I know more than doctors and scientists who study this for a living". You're hardly the only slashdotter who wrongly thinks he's smarter than actual experts.
What's the argument for separating? Is it a concern that the immune system may not deal as well with multiple vaccines at once?
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
You make a valid point, but when foreign invasion is substituted for immigration, it presents your argument in a poor light.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
If you bother to look beyond the surface numbers, I will bet that you will find that poverty correlates much more strongly with infant mortality than rates of vaccinations. And MS is pretty poor.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
"Infection around the time of birth or from contact with other people during childhood is the most frequent method by which hepatitis B is acquired in areas where the disease is common." --Wikipedia
Even more so, it's not just at school where infection can be spread. There is no reasonable way to keep someone out of all areas of public life.
"I'm a moderate anti-vaxxer"
In other words, you're only somewhat stupid?
Note the glaring contradiction in your analysis. You're advocating that we allow the U.S. federal government to take over the entire USA medical system. Yet, it is this very same government that pursues the policy of global military imperialism. There is no "other side" on this issue. We have two dominant political parties who have managed to exclude everyone else from the political system. Both of these parties agree on this aggressive foreign policy and global military presence.
The debate about vaccines in the public policy sphere is about whether or not the government can force you to inject something into your body. This is the government that spies on its citizens, engages in torture, incarcerates and assassinates its citizens without charge or trial, refuses to prosecute government employees for blatant criminal activity, etc. etc. You think I'm going to let them stick a needle in my arm and just trust their word that it's good for me? These people would inject U.S. citizens with the live AIDS virus or antibiotic resistant TB if it served their purposes. I think I'd rather borrow a needle from a junkie than a federal bureaucrat.
Everywhere I've lived in the US, vaccinations are provided gratis by the local health department.
People with insurance usually go to a doctor and get their vaccinations through them, but the health department will also do it for free. (That's the same health department that will run free STD tests.) Often, the real battle is communicating to people that these resources are available, fighting the stigma associated with getting free services from the government, and the practical issues of getting a working person over to a busy government office.
As many childhood vaccinations are practically mandatory in the US, as they're required for attending elementary school (which is also mandatory), it makes sense that they're freely available.
As a result, I think, of Obamacare, all childhood vaccines and most adult vaccines (including flu) are free to anyone with insurance.
Although we may agree on the need for less porous borders, the CDC actually has solid data on the causes of outbreaks like the current one. And, they don't typically start with "foreign invaders" - They start with unvaccinated legal US citizens going on vacation and coming back infected.
So yeah, idiots choosing not to vaccinate, whether because Jenny or Jesus said so, do count as the entire problem.
The amended version of House Bill 130 puts into law the state's existing practice of granting medical waivers to children whose physicians request them, and in doing so, removes the Mississippi Department of Health's ability to deny such requests.
In other words, this allows the anti-vaxxers and religious nuts to go to their chiropractor, osteopath or other quack to get an exemption. Hell there are plenty of MDs that will write a prescription for anything you want for $50.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
That's the argument I've heard. But I've also read articles that suggest the average kid's immune system is capable of handling the effects of about 1000 to 5000 immunizations at once. Separating seems to be mostly hogwash.
If somebody isn't immunized, then even the rich people who are insured are at risk in the event that their infants are too young to be vaccinated, or couldn't be vaccinated because of medical complications.
The self-indulgent rich are actually a huge part of the vaccination problem. Check out where some of the latest outbreaks have been- Hollywood, Disney world, etc- not places for people with no money.
A journalist named Seth Mnookin wrote a book, "The Panic Virus: A True Story of Medicine, Science and Fear", and was Interviewed recently:
Further:
There's also a great comment attached, by a poster named 'Tom Billings (qualifications unknown)', that gets into the causes of autism: Genetic
Actually, it's simpler than that. It's just very unpopular, because it says things about humans we don't like to hear. You don't need government subsidizing something for it to increase. That is only one cause of some increases in some things.
The genes associated with autism are mostly SNPs and single folds. Single nucleotide polymorphisms and single folds are single mutation events. You would expect those to be just as common throughout history as a result. So, why don't we see in the past the same rates of autism we see today? It's brutally simple. The children born with such genetic differences mostly didn't survive to reproductive age. They were murdered.
His comment goes on and it's worth a read.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
no, but children are legally mandated to receive an education. kids who can't get vaccinated, their parents could decide that a camping trip might be safer than one to a theme park, and they're free to make that decision. they can take measures, not so much with schooling. educating a kid is a full time job... you know what teachers do.
If an MD writes the request I can go along with that. Not a damn chiropractor or a therapist or some other silly shit.
So which of those do you object to? Varicella maybe?
He tried to kill me with a forklift!
Guess which two states have the lowest rates of autism. Yep, it's Mississippi and West Virginia at .04 and .05.
http://graphics.latimes.com/usmap-autism-rates-state/
No, you are wrong. .1% rate. .4% and is tied with Montana, South Dakota, Kansas, Colorado, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Louisiana, South Carolina. .5% and ties with 5 others at .5%
Look again at your map. Iowa is the lowest at
Mississippi has
West Virginia is higher than any of those states at
Here's another set of maps, although from an anti-vax site: http://vaxtruth.org/2012/04/when-1-in-88-is-really-1-in-29/
It's still not Misssissippi.
Note that the measles vaccine is only 97% effective.
Note further that the national vaccination rate is ~94.7%.
Which leaves us with 5.3% of the population vulnerable due to lack of vaccine, and 2.8% vulnerable due to failed vaccine.
In other words, the odds say about 35% of measles come into the country from vaccinated people going on vacation and coming back infected.
"I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
We vaccinate. I"m old enough to remember measles, mumps and chickenpox. You don't have a up to date vaccination card your kid doesn't go to school around here. We call those antivaxers in California idiots and for good reason. I have a autistic child and I never blamed the vaccinations. Our modern society freaks out when kids walk home from a park on their own.
Why aren't they freaking about the little plague vectors walking around spreading disease to those to young to vacinate and those with weakened immune systems?
No, you're blatantly wrong. There are three potential reasons for an exemption: religious, personal, or medical. Let me put this in capitals so you can understand:
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THE GODDAMN 50 STATES ALLOWS A MEDICAL EXEMPTION FOR VACCINATIONS.
Source: CDC
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/imz-managers/laws/
Is it not nice to find something that jerks and idiots of all political stripes can agree on?
People are good at nagging doctor. So they will get them write off the exemption, for no medical reason whatsoever. And if that doctor refuse, there will be another one which accept. They pretty much gutted the law.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
I can see waiting on Varicella until around age 9 or 10, as pre-puberty symptoms of chicken pox are generally pretty mild.
It's pretty stupid to NOT get the Varicella vaccine after the onset of puberty if you haven't had chicken pox yet, as symptoms increase significantly as you age. IIRC, symptoms post-puberty can include permanent debilitation and/or death depending on person and age.
For the other vaccines listed, you'd have to be pretty stupid to not get them as early as you can, as all of those diseases have a high risk of debilitation and/or death regardless of age.
Except for the "science deniers" in this case would have to be the physicians themselves.
Which will be easy enough to find - especially if they don't want to face liability issues for going against the will of the parents.
Expect a huge influx of "child is allergic to all vaccine" reports from Mississippi doctors in the near future.
It allows him to feel trendy without appearing quite as much of a dumbass as full antivaxxers.
If Mississippi and Arkansas didn't suck so hard...Louisiana would fall off into the Gulf.... probably pushed by Texas.
I only look human.
My mother is a halfling and my dad is an ogre, so that makes me an Ogreling
School aged vaccinations for this type of stuff are generally available for free (there's usually a local government-run "Health Department" that will administer them).
Basically all the mandatory vaccinations are that way. The yearly flu-shot isn't completely free, though almost all insurances cover it if you elect to take it. At work they'll bring a nurse in for a day or two and you can just stop in and get one if you'd like.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
I've found very few MDs who have any kind of listening skills. I've known some brilliant ones. But many of them are shills for the drug companies, pushing unnecessary drugs and just all-around being ineffective. We're told to revere doctors, but the reality is that MDs are not scientists -- they're technicians, and often not terribly skilled ones. These facts are not lost on their patents. People just don't trust doctors. Vaccines are just one more dubious thing that MDs push on us.
This distrust of the medical profession totally understandable, and you shouldn't call people morons for feeling this way. Most people are not scientists who can do their own research. Their only source of information is these doctors they don't like. If we want to fix the vaccination problem, we have to fix the doctors and get them to stop doing stupid things like prescribing antidepressants for autoimmune diseases. [*]
The science of vaccines is solid. As with anything, it's not entirely risk-free, but the risks are worth the benefits for protection against some serious diseases. It's also irresponsible to put other people at risk. IF (huge IF) there is any correlation with autism, that correlation is miniscule compared to the effects of the other shit we put in our bodies (horrible American diet, pollution, etc.). But people are much more willing to skip a vaccination appointment than not eat that Big Mac.
Incidentally, I heard recently something interesting about flu shots. If those who decide which viruses are being innoculated against predict them correctly, then flu shots work great. If, on the other hand, their predictions are too far off the mark, the flu shot may actually make you MORE vulnerable to viruses that they missed. Of course, you should verify this claim before deciding not to get a flu shot. This isn't a matter of effectiveness of vaccines but rather an issue of getting the right ones.
[*] In medical school doctors are expliclty taught that if someone comes in with a constellation of symptoms, especially if they have them written down, then that person is a hypochondriac. The thing is, auto-immune diseases are not exactly a 1-in-a-million phenomenon. Hashimoto's and Lupus are quite well understood. They come with constellations of symptoms, and they also come with brain fog, which basically forces people to write down their symptoms. My wife had to perform her own differential diagnosis based on the symptoms to determine (abductively) that Hashimoto's is the clear best explanation, but nevertheless, she had to fight with one of the few endocrinologists in the area just to get tested. Of course she tested positive, but even in the face of the evidence, this doctor still doesn't want to engage in any kind of treatment plan. Why? Because endocrinologists make all their money from pushing drugs on diabetics and have no interest in anything else.
That's amazing. What an amazing story. Get this out to the scientific community pronto, they've been pissing about doing studies of tens of thousands of people for decades, but fuck that, because you got sick a bit as a kid and now that you haven't been vaccinated you don't get sick. So yeah let's chuck the vaccines, based on what you think you experienced.
TLDR anecdotes count for precisely fuck-all.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
The Onion as usual got right to the core of it :)
"Regardless of what anyone else thinks, I fully stand behind my choices as a mom, including my choice not to vaccinate my son, because it is my fundamental right as a parent to decide which eradicated diseases come roaring back."
Vaccine refusers are some of the most odious, self-entitled pricks on this planet.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Those with insurance no longer have to pay for childhood vaccinations. It's covered 100% by insurance as required by law, as are the well baby(child) check ups for I think the first 5 years.
I think people who don't have vaccinations should have to wear arm bands so the rest of us know to avoid them. They are petri dishes of infectious disease.
The anti-vaccine people are the most selfishly stupid people on this planet. Citing a discredited report linking vaccines to autism, taking medical advice from a media whore that appeared on Oprah over that of scientists and doctors, quoting conspiracy theory websites, and claiming "special knowledge" that is being "kept hidden", they put the very young who have not been immunized at risk of completely preventable diseases.
They also put those who are on anti-rejection drugs after a transplant at risk. And those who are chemotherapy. And those who are on retroviral drugs.
All they think about is their own paranoid delusions of a grand conspiracy "out to get them."
John Cleese describes them better than I can:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
Are there really people who say "your particular combination of luck, genetics, circumstance and choices are so much more influenced by choice than anything that unlike other people with health conditions, fuck you" ?
Are those people worried that the lack of financial incentives will be the tipping point?
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Essentially, they have a prophylactic to protect them from the virus that is vaccination denialism?
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20587679
I have a friend who, in her thirties, just got measles from one of her son's friends, and now she's lost her hearing -- a fairly common, and often permanent, complication of measles. She's trying to sue the parents, on the basis of one of them posting about how they didn't vaccinate their child because they didn't believe in it. She figures that if a person who has AIDS and has unprotected sex with people can be charged with murder -- a criminal act -- she should be able to win a civil judgment for at least negligence.
If it works, it could be an interesting new chapter in the vaccination story, and does raise the question of why AIDS is handled differently than measles.
Nostalgia's not what it used to be.
This report in the main post above was absolutely guaranteed to inflame the condescension so inherent in the liberal coastal mentality that afflicts so many /. posters. No human society can be found that is not riddled with irrational pieties and unfounded self-congratulation. This is not to say that any human being not otherwise non-compis mentis would prefer to live in San Francisco over Peshawar. But, condescending to the rubes who live in Dixie is not only rude, it is foolish. Sometimes they really are smarter than /.ers.
"Why the 'Prius Driving, Composting' Set Fears Vaccines By Greg Miller at ScienceMag.org on 31 January 2011
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
When I was a kid I got a lot of vaccines. My income was zero. Now I get almost no vaccines and my income has skyrocketed.
Play Command HQ online
If I remember correctly there is at least one case where you would be wrong. I can't remember which vaccines they were, but some time ago they tried to add another vaccine to one of the three vaccine cocktails. The significant adverse side effects doubled from (I believe) 4 in 100,000 to 9 in 100,000. Medical professionals suggested that the 4 vaccine cocktail be removed from usage.
The amended version of House Bill 130 puts into law the state's existing practice of granting medical waivers to children whose physicians request them, and in doing so, removes the Mississippi Department of Health's ability to deny such requests.
Normally, I would agree that this would be fine.
However, the irrational anti-vaccine hysteria has become too widespread.
What is going to happen, is there are going to be improper waivers given in the name of a "health issue" constructed for the purposes of avoiding vaccination.
Inevitably, there are going to be some medical professionals who are persuaded. They should be students of science, but there are plenty in the industry who are not scientists and could be persuaded by some specious arguments.
Therefore, I would say that their waiver should be subject to review. If there is any doubt; it should not be adequate just to find one professional to sign off on something. There should have to be a documented basis that would be accepted by the industry or by the average professional.
I've found very few MDs who have any kind of listening skills. I've known some brilliant ones.
Yeah, I know what you mean. In talking to several doctors, I get the distinct feeling that I'm on the flip side of what happens when my mother-in-law has a computing problem: she hands me the computer and starts offering endless way-off-the-mark suggestions which I have to forcibly ignore while trying to concentrate on troubleshooting the real problem.
Being listened to makes us feel better (in pretty much any human situation, but especially when our health is on the line). However, we as patients are generally dumping a load of crap on the doc when it comes to listing a "constellations of symptoms". It takes great patience and integrity for a doctor to diligently listen through all of that verbage for the 1-in-a-million gem, and most docs don't have that sort of time.
I'm still learning how to use doctors effectively, and the best thing I've learned over the past few years is that... if you've got a disease that's poorly understood, find the docs who have the expertise on that condition. (And hope they aren't just pill-pushers, I guess.) My general internist thought I needed a pacemaker, the cardiologist controlled the worst symptoms with drugs, and the dysautonomic disease specialist knew what my problem was and established a treatment plan to fix it. Something that was a complete mystery to the first two doctors was a routine case for the third.
-1, Too Many Layers Of Abstraction
I have a young relative who's an anti-vaxxer. A lot of my relatives are science fans and natural history geeks, so its putting a lot of stress on the family.
Here's the thing about anti-vaxxers. It's a stupid position but the people who take it aren't necessarily stupid or uneducated. What they are is rabidly anti-authority. "Question Authority" was even a popular left-wing slogan in the 60s and 70s. And it's a good idea, along with believing in your ability to decide for yourself, which is another value my generation worked hard to inculcate in our kids. But like anything else you can go overboard with these things; you need countervailing virtues to work them against. I think where many parents in my generation missed the boat was that we failed to inculcate a respect for the value of rational self-doubt. Constructive self-doubt is something our Depression era parents had by the bucketful, and so many of us saw it as a natural state to be overcome, not a positive virtue to be cultivated.
The places you see the most knee-jerk anti-authority mindset are the places that were historically most full of free-thinkers and radicals. Places where people were taught to respect authority and institutions don't have this particular form of insanity (they have their own forms). So anti-vaxx is blue-state birtherism. But this kind of mindless anti-authorarianism has also increasingly become a feature of modern "conservatism", too. Violently emotional anti-establishment views are a feature of radicalsm whatever flavor that radicalism takes.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Flu shot hoax admitted
GMO front man exposed
Mercury still in flu shots
Vaccines sterilize women
CDC scientist confesses to vaccine fraud
But wait! Let's not limit ourselves to just their headlines...
Essential vocabulary for the medical police state descending upon America
Six preventable disorders America has manufactured, perpetuated, and propagated
Tetanus vaccines found spiked with sterilization chemical to carry out race-based genocide against Africans
And my favorite,
Gun-free schools in America now training children as resistance militia forces armed with cans of soup
Great site you've found there, friend! I've added it to my "humor" bookmarks folder!
It's nice to see some actual science in this conversation. I don't know if I consider 1 additional severe reaction in 2300 to be worth the inconvenience of separate vaccines, but at least there's a rational basis for it.
Never underestimate the power of stupid people in large groups.
People who refuse to vaccinate (either themselves or their children) are also not allowed:
Airbags, ABS, and Seatbelts in their cars
Smoke detectors or fire extinguishers in their homes
Insurance of any kind (that's socialism, right?)
Chlorinated water from their water service
Flame retardant furniture
Any other safety device mandated by government ever
The problem will take care of itself rather quickly when all of the anti-vaxxers have died off.
When I got vaccinated as a kid, I always ended up sick at some point that same year.
So as a kid, you got sick with polio, mumps, measles, and whooping cough, and lived to tell about it?
I got sick a lot as a kid too. As an adult, I don't get sick much at all. It's normal for kids to get sick a lot: they're in school with hundreds of other kids, and catch it from them. There's a reason some people call kids "disease vectors".
When I was a kid and got vaccinations, I could not fly an airplane. Now I don't get any and know how to fly. If we just stop with the vaccines, the Air Force can save a TON of money and get rid of pilot training!
Hey, I don't care what the entire medical profession says. Jenny McCarthy says they cause autism. She's a celebrity so obviously she knows more than all of the doctors in the world right? And my next door neighbor's cousins best friends college roommate's sisters daughter had a tummy ache right after getting vaccinated so they must be bad right? /snark
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
Do we have a map of which states cover mental health care with autism spectrum children?
California is in the toilet when it comes to vaccination rates. Wealthy Progressive areas are the worst, followed by poor Progressive areas. Coincidence or Medicaid?
http://cdn.pjmedia.com/instapu...
Doesn't everybody have insurance, now that it's mandatory?
No one expects you to do shit. I do expect insurance companies to take care of those they ensure. And I do expect the government to help poor people.
I don't know why your panties are in a bunch. What the fuck you expect. You want every health insurer to charge you a premium increase everytime you have sex outside of marriage? Every time you eat red meat? Everytime you don't eat red meat if the head of the company starts believing in Atkin's?
Your ad here. Ask me how!
So you only sip the kool-aid then?
Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
Jenny McCarthy says they cause autism. She's a celebrity so obviously she knows more than all of the doctors in the world right?
Her child wasn't even autistic. She couldn't even get that part right. He has Landau–Kleffner syndrome, and now that he doesn't show autism symptoms, she says that chelation therapy cured her son. Every statement she makes just gets worse.
yes. absolutely. Don't exercise. Smoke. Eat shitty food. Become 100 pounds overweight. Then expect me to pay for your diabetes medicine and lung surgery. Fuck no
No one expects you to do shit. I do expect insurance companies to take care of those they ensure
In other words, you DO expect us to pay for them. If you're asking someone other than the person who gets sick to pay for the treatments, then you're asking all of us to. Neither insurance companies nor governments are pools of magic money, that money comes from insured folks and tax payers.
One issue is that you can not tell whether life style caused a particular case of heart disease or not. There is reason to believe that genetics as well as infections cause heart disease and perhaps more so than diet or exercise cause the same problems. For example a clogged heart valve may be mostly fatty material or calcium deposits or a mixture of both. Yet we have no idea of whether drinking a glass of milk causes calcium deposits in the heart in most people nor is fat intake tied to fatty accumulations in the arteries. The most northern tribes of native people have diets that are super high in fat and it does not appear to harm them.
In 1951 and 52 I had compulsory vacinations in Tunica Mississippi in the third and fourth grade. They would line us up a hundred or so at a time and give us our shots. They took off the needles and tossed them in a pan of water which turned pink from the blood. The sick part is that they sterilized the needles and used them over and over again. That creates a one in seven thousand death rate due to contaminted needles. For some reason it struck me as nasty and I threw a fit and refused to let them vacinate me. I had it done by my private doctor to meet school requirements. Back then the big fear in the delta was typhoid and the schools really did need to be certain that all the kids were vacinated. That region had a long history of typhoid outbreaks due to high ground water levels and use of home wells and outhouses for many homes.
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Mexico is now keeping track of vaccinations for every illegal that crosses the border into the US? The ones from Honduras? The ones from Yemen?
See that "Preview" button?
Your rights don't include injecting whatever the hell you think you should into my body or my child's. Now personally, my child is vaccinated against pretty much everything. At the same time, I'm very strongly against having public schools. Every private school should have the right to refuse service to any unvaccinated child. Also, while my child is vaccinated, I still fill out the conscientious objection form, because it's none of the state's business.
Frankly, what I've been seeing from the latest outbreaks is it's overwhelmingly the unvaccinated who are getting sick with a very small percentage of the ill being those who have been vaccinated. With results like that, I don't think the argument that the unvaccinated put the rest of the population at risk holds that much weight.
Once a few children get sick and die from these preventable diseases, a lot of people will decide that vaccination is the right course of action. It won't take any government mandate, either.
Primarily from mother to child during delivery. The likelihood of an child who hasn't been vaccinated both 1) contracting HepB and 2) passing it to someone else at school are fairly low. Much lower than, say, measles.
The main reason to require vaccination in public schools is that they're a resource that's supposedly available to everyone. I shouldn't have to expose my kid to other kids who haven't been vaccinated in order to access the public school system. So we require vaccinations there. Private schools are private. That's why you can send your kid to a school that teaches young earth creationism if you want. Likewise, you could elect to send your kid to a school that doesn't require vaccinations. I would support a reporting requirement, though, obligating private schools to publicize in their promotional materials whether they allow un-vaccinated students to enroll. That way parents can make an informed decision.
Not really. It's transmitted by blood, or bodily fluids containing blood. That can happen without sex or needles but, outside of mother-to-child transmission during delivery, its more rare. I would be much less concerned about sending my kids to a school where some of the students weren't vaccinated against HepB than I would be about sending my kids to a school where some of the students weren't vaccinated against measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, etc.
Vaccinations stunted my growth - when I was a kid I was less than 5ft, now that I've stopped getting vaccinations I'm 5ft 11. Coincidence? I don't think so.
I'm not expecting you to do anything, individually. I do expect society to take care of people who are sick. I expect insurers to live up to their obligations as well.
I have, quite literally, no idea why you oppose that. You seem upset. I'm not sure why. Why is helping sick people such anathema to you?
Your ad here. Ask me how!
And then we get a few schools where the unvaccinated congregate, so if one kid gets the measles it's going to sweep through the school and trigger a large outbreak.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
There's a shingles vaccine also, that I got first time I visited the doctor while 60, but that's only partly effective. IIRC, it reduced my chance of getting it by very roughly half. Worth doing, but I can't rule out getting shingles.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Strange, most of the doctors I've visited were good at listening. There have been exceptions (one in particular would say something, I'd contradict it, and he'd go on without paying attention), but you'll also get exceptions. The doctors I've seen have also been good about making sure I understand what's going on and what I can do about it.
BTW, is it stupid to prescribe antidepressants for people who come in with the symptoms of autoimmune disease? Modern antidepressants are fairly safe drugs, for adults anyway, and if most people who come in with those symptoms tend to be depressed, it may be a useful way of approaching treatment.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
You might want to deal with academic-type doctors if you suspect a rare condition. Some of them tend to blow off common problems as uninteresting, but are great at finding the rare ones.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Everywhere I've lived in the US, vaccinations are provided gratis by the local health department.
Organisation may be a serious problem there.
With Australia and Canada. Nationwide you can go see a GP for your childs immi and receive it. Basic adult immunisations like a tetanus booster are free for life.
You dont have to search for a clinic that provides the free vaccines, it doesn't change if I move states, your records move with you easily.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
And? Medical exemptions are not some sham to provide an "out" to the religious and personal exemption crowd. From the article:
"For kindergartners that year, Mississippi approved just 17 medical exemptions, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention said. Neighboring Arkansas, which had about 3,100 fewer kindergarten students than Mississippi that year, recorded 24 medical exemptions."
This strikes me as honestly kids who might seriously have a condition that makes certain vaccinations dangerous. I mean 17 out of 45,000+ is a damn small number.
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
pro means with, con means against.
At least all the unvaccinated kids would be confined to a ghetto, of sorts. Maybe more outbreaks (and, consequently, more dead kids) would motivate more parents to vaccinate.
The science clearly demonstrates that vaccination works, period. To deny it is idiocy. Anyone can be an idiot, including some physicians. They are in the minority (and wrong) among physicians.
You dont have to search for a clinic that provides the free vaccines, it doesn't change if I move states, your records move with you easily.
Here, you don't have to search for a clinic that provides free vaccines, either. It's a local government department.
All local services change if you move states. You certainly don't see the same GP after you move, no?
In a lot of cases, SSRI's aren't going to work. Celiac disease, for instance, tends to be associated with leaky gut, where the mucosal lining is eroded, and the gut is more permiable. The mucosal lining is a major location where serotonin is stored. If your serotonin storage bank is nonfunctional, then there's not enough serotonin to selectively reuptake. Therefore, such people need to supplement it more or less directly by taking something like 5HTP. This converts to serotonin (and also permiates the blood-brain barrier better than tryptophan).
In case you find this informative, and you also need to supplement norepinephrine, consider tyrosine and dessicated bovine adrenal gland. Tyrosine is precursor to several neurotransmitters.
I was vaccinated at birth, and was so traumatized I didn't talk for two years.
That's amazing. What an amazing story. Get this out to the scientific community pronto, they've been pissing about doing studies of tens of thousands of people for decades, but fuck that, because you got sick a bit as a kid and now that you haven't been vaccinated you don't get sick. So yeah let's chuck the vaccines, based on what you think you experienced.
TLDR anecdotes count for precisely fuck-all.
Certain vaccines should be compulsary. Polio, Measles, diphtheria the Poxes. If your kid does not have any of those he should not be allowed in schools or where he is in contact with healthy kids.
Want a vaccine for the flu, thats not the same.
Leslie Satenstein Montreal Quebec Canada
The fact that a troll posts such assholery doesn't bother me, but that this gets a +5 for Insightful is pathetic.
Maybe its just that some folks can't see the humor, nor the point.
The point is your and others desires to condescend. The internet is essentially ubiquitous in Mississippi, but you wouldn't know that as you've probably never been to the state. Whatever horrible reason there is that Mississippi has something right, it can't be good, can it?
Lighten up there. Just having a little fun with stereotypes, don' t tell me you've never done that, and throwing in a hint about how internet fodder feeds fears like the vaccination thing. Maybe you just didn't catch on.... guess you are from Mississippi! (jk).
If it hadn't been done to death. Like I said, one troll, no problem, but +5 for insightful? It's not just you that makes me bitch. Try living in MS for a while, and you'll find more genuine people than anywhere else you go. At least that's been my experience. Except Ole Miss. Ole Miss sucks.
OK...sorry for taking the cheap shot. Most marked it as funny, but the some were more tuned into the internet point than any thing to do with Mississippi. I grew up in the Appalachian mountains, I've heard it all as well.
Does that mean I'm against fused or with fused?
Support a few technologists in Washington.
This is neither the time nor the place for pragmatism and logic. If you can't bring an inflexible ideology based on fear and ignorance to the table, nobody's going to listen to you.
"We have been a victim of our success, and people don't realize how bad these diseases are," said Mississippi state epidemiologist, Dr. Thomas E. Dobbs III,
"We have been a victim of our success, and people don't realize how bad these diseases are for the pockets of the pharma gaints. Lifelong immunity against measles could kill our business!" said Mississippi state epidemiologist, Dr. Thomas E. Dobbs III,
There, FTFY.
If you qualify for the federal exchange, the medicaid expansion would do nothing for you. How much do you pay for internet every month?