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Mars One Does Not Renew Contracts For Robotic Missions

braindrainbahrain writes Mars One is, of course, the highly speculative, low credibility project to land humans on Mars after a one-way trip. In 2013 they had announced that two contracts had been awarded to the aerospace industry to develop a Mars orbiter and a Mars lander to carry a science experiment payload to the surface. Both contracts have been completed, but so far, Mars One has no immediate plans to renew the contracts and pursue further development of the crafts.

110 comments

  1. So the gist is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No Mars Two!

  2. They better get their act together. by edxwelch · · Score: 1

    The giant space goat is getting closer!

  3. We should all be pitching in. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    We could make this the B Ark.

    1. Re:We should all be pitching in. by El_Oscuro · · Score: 1

      But what will happen when someone contracts a disease from a dirty telephone?

      --
      "Be grateful for what you have. You may never know when you may lose it."
  4. This Just In! by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 4, Interesting

    This just in - Getting humans safely to the surface of Mars is way wicked hard and totally expensive.

    1. Re:This Just In! by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And a bad reality TV show is much cheaper, safer and offers at least theoretical returns on investments. Bad reality TV shows don't need rocket scientists either.

      3. Profit !

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    2. Re:This Just In! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      But I've been assured that with 3D printing and glorious Job Creators in Space that the Game (tm) has Changed(c).
      The Species is still on schedule to colonize Andromeda by 2035?

    3. Re:This Just In! by sg_oneill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yep.The funny thing about reality TV shows is they don't really rate that well in the scheme of things. They don't rate poorly either, but not great. But they are *dirt cheap* to make, so TV companies just bulk order them because its low investment for medium returns. Star trek shows consistently topped ratings charts, but they where ridiculously expensive to make. So they stopped making them. "Duck tamers vs Nazi skinheads season 19" on the other hand won't get barely half that rating, but because it costs next to nothing, its the safer bet.

      The end result however is that TV is dying. People are increasingly just reading the net, and at most maybe keeping up with a few well made cable series. The short term pursuit of profits have killed TV in the long term.

      And this is the environment Mars One wants to base the future of space travel. I don't think so somehow.

      --
      Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
    4. Re:This Just In! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This just in - Getting humans safely to the surface of Mars is way wicked hard and totally expensive.

      Welcome to the 10 o'clock news. Tonight's top story...Why Budgets and Number Crunching Still Matter.

      Cool idea, bro! is never a substitute for proper planning. They knew how expensive this shit was when it was still being dreamed up on the back of a napkin. And they're not exactly short on volunteers.

    5. Re:This Just In! by AC-x · · Score: 2

      Reality TV space mission? It's not rocket science!

    6. Re:This Just In! by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      The end result however is that TV is dying. People are increasingly just reading the net, and at most maybe keeping up with a few well made cable series. The short term pursuit of profits have killed TV in the long term.

      Actually, I think we're heading into a new golden age of TV. Besides actual airtime on TV, there are now plenty of outlets for the same shows on demand. There seems to be an endless supply of new series coming out that are actually well done that people are watching. Steaming, recording, and on demand seem to be the future and it is TV that is happily supplying the content.

  5. News Media by jklovanc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When will the news media wake up to the fact that this is a scam and stop giving Mars Zero (zero because they have zero chance of actually going to Mars) free advertising?

    1. Re:News Media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When the news media actually gets enough savvy to tell the difference between legitimate technological efforts and snake oil. Don't hold your breath waiting for this.

    2. Re:News Media by arth1 · · Score: 1

      It couuld be useful for one thing: If a list is obtained of who supported or applied for this bullshit, I'd consider that an overall win.

    3. Re:News Media by penguinoid · · Score: 2

      The objective of most news media is not to spread the truth, but rather to attract eyeballs. Hence the number of intentionally misleading headlines and reporting, and especially the choice of topic.

      --
      Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
    4. Re:News Media by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Because stories like this get good ratings and lots of page hits and comments, thus ad rates. Better to put "news" media into quotes. It is tabloid press, paired with the yellow journalism that leads us to war.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:News Media by Beck_Neard · · Score: 5, Insightful

      So far there's no evidence that it's an outright fraud; it's just REALLY wishful thinking. But that's almost equally bad, because when it inevitably fails it's going to hurt the space community because they will be permanently associated with failures and scams. This is why I think the onus is on the space community (The Planetary Society, the Mars Society, etc.) to quickly refute and bury Mars One as fast as possible.

      --
      A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
    6. Re:News Media by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Wow. When do people like you and the mass media get it: you don't know if it is a scam.
      It is as simple as that. Unless the thing 'is over' and we have the facts, no one knows.
      Accusing them right now for scam is lible and insult.

      We have the technology to send people there and let them build up their own homes since decades. The only thing preventing that to happen is either political will or money.

      Believing otherwise is simply stupid or lack of knowledge.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    7. Re:News Media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So far there's no evidence that it's an outright fraud

      The application fee is all the outright proof you need.

    8. Re:News Media by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "When will the news media wake up to the fact that this is a scam"

      When will *you* wake up to the fact that the news media are part of the scam?

    9. Re:News Media by jklovanc · · Score: 2

      Every scientist in the field who does not have in interest in Mars 1 who have commented have commented negatively about the project. Take a look at this paper from some MIT students.

      The only thing preventing that to happen is either political will or money.

      You are absolutely correct. The big problem with this scheme is money. They have no viable plan to gather the money to do it. Sorry but selling media rights to watch people die on another planet is not going to bring in the billions of dollars necessary to keep things going. Have you ever heard of a reality show pull in over $4.5billion? No country in their right mind would back this as all it will be is a drain on taxes money. Yes, money is a huge issue and Mars 1 has not solved that problem.

      Accusing them right now for scam is lible and insult.

      Considering they are no longer even using the cover of contracts with legitimate companies I say now is a great time to call scam.

    10. Re:News Media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We also have the technology for the 10 hour work week and the leisure society since decades. The only thing preventing that to happen is either political will or money.

      Believing otherwise is simply stupid or lack of knowledge.

      And for the record, we absolutely DO NOT "have" any technology to allow sending people there and letting them build their own homes since decades.

      Show me the technology. All you have are drawings, dreams, and fantasies.

      You don't have a single BOLT of such a technology. NUTS, on the other hand, you have plenty of.

    11. Re:News Media by Kittenman · · Score: 1

      When will the news media wake up to the fact that this is a scam and stop giving Mars Zero (zero because they have zero chance of actually going to Mars) free advertising?

      My new start-up, Jupiter Zero, will soon replace Mars Zero in the news anyhow

      (Actually, this is probably what's going to happen...)

      --
      "The greatest lesson in life is to know that even fools are right sometimes" - Winston Churchill
    12. Re:News Media by Macrat · · Score: 1

      The same news media that reported SpaceX's SUCCESSFUL payload launch as a failure because their test to land the 1st stage on a barge in the ocean crashed?

    13. Re:News Media by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Can you reference that news report? The landing was a failure.

    14. Re:News Media by Macrat · · Score: 1

      NBC Nightly News broadcast.

    15. Re:News Media by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      It is possible they are a group of idealists who are in way over their heads, and assume someone will fund the project once they have boots on the ground. You don't have to assume fraud, they might just be stupid.

    16. Re:News Media by tgv · · Score: 1

      What more evidence do you need?

    17. Re:News Media by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      A reference includes a link to the actual information or at least the date and station (NBC has many stations). Saying a news show's name is not a reference.

    18. Re:News Media by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      They are smart enough to plan a manned mission to Mars yet stupid enough to not be able to do simple math. Sorry but those two ideas don't go together. Considering the marketing might behind this scam fraud is a much higher probability.

    19. Re:News Media by Macrat · · Score: 1

      The NBC Nightly New is a network program. Not a local station. I watch it via Hulu.

    20. Re:News Media by itzly · · Score: 2

      We have the technology to send people there and let them build up their own homes since decades. The only thing preventing that to happen is either political will or money.

      Please show the technology that can land people safely on the surface.

    21. Re:News Media by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 0

      The same technology that land people safely on the moon. And/or parachutes.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    22. Re:News Media by khallow · · Score: 2

      So far there's no evidence that it's an outright fraud

      Sure there is. I see two repliers who noted both the application fee (classic scam warning right there) and making false claims. To this I'd add the elephant in the tent: they completed astronaut selection for the alleged mission to Mars before they started any physical manifestation of the project. Where's the working prototype spaceship these astronauts will fly in? Where's the working prototype habitat these astronauts will stay in on Mars?

      Even on their unjustifiably aggressive schedule, they picked the astronauts at least 15 years before they'll fly them. Even if all the current recruits are young, that's still going to result in huge attribution just from changing circumstance. But OTOH, if you're just looking for appearance rather than substance, astronauts selection is cheap (and profitable with those application fees). "Bending metal" is expensive and cuts into the profit margin.

      This is why I think the onus is on the space community (The Planetary Society, the Mars Society, etc.)

      Nah, I think the best way is to let the suckers get parted from their money. Gullible people aren't good for business and this is a life lesson for those involved.

    23. Re:News Media by khallow · · Score: 1

      Wow. When do people like you and the mass media get it: you don't know if it is a scam.

      I don't care at this point. I'm not going to wait ten years for the gloating emails and other solid evidence to come to light.

      Accusing them right now for scam is lible and insult.

      It's legitimate opinion. That might be libel in UK and elsewhere, but there's no bag limit in the US.

      We have the technology to send people there and let them build up their own homes since decades. The only thing preventing that to happen is either political will or money.

      Remember how movies used to treat things different just because they happened to be in space? Vampires were totally more dangerous if they were "space vampires". Pirates were far more awesome if they were "space pirates". Sex was more awesome because it was ... in spaaaace. Most of that junk doesn't substantially change just because it's in space. The tools may be different, but the trade is the same.

      However, technology development is one of those areas where it does matter where the technology has been used. A Mars habitat which has only been deployed in Antarctica is going to have a lot of uncertainties with it that a successful habitat deployment on Mars will resolve. The same goes for all those other technologies in the appropriate environments in which they'll hypothetically be used.

      Now. I've played loose with this before, but it's usually when someone makes a silly claim like "we've never done terraforming before" (which is a strong negative claim). Then it's a simple matter to rebut that by pointing out the practices of irrigation and road building which while not strictly terraforming (merely because they happen on Earth), otherwise meet the criteria of making a place more conducive to human habitation.

      But bottom line is that there are still technology and development hurdles to overcome which Mars One is not even starting on.

    24. Re:News Media by itzly · · Score: 3, Informative

      Mars has significantly stronger gravity than the moon, so the little rocket engine that they used on the moon lander wouldn't be able to reduce much of the orbital speed until it slammed in the surface. Also, the moon lander was operating in a vacuum. Designing a rocket engine that works against supersonic atmospheric flow is an entirely different matter.

      And while parachutes are an existing technology, a parachute big enough to help with a Mars landing is not. You can't just scale up existing technology that's already at the edge of what we can do.

    25. Re:News Media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When the ratings of exposing them as frauds look better than the ones promoting them.

    26. Re:News Media by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      And they have at least 365 shows a year. Which one? According to a search on their site their only reference to a failure at that time are these. Those are coverage of the failed landing.

    27. Re:News Media by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      Would it only cost $4.5 billion? Bill Gates' net worth is $79.2 billion, Zuckerberg has $33.4 billion, Elon Musk has $7.9 billion and then I've skipped a lot of billionaires in between. If a few of those guys pool together, $4.5 billion sounds like peanuts. I suspect that figure was wildly optimistic, though. And anyway, even with all the money in the world, pulling off such a mission is simply unlikely with current technology. They'll get something wrong, or some vital equipment will fail unexpectedly, and that will be the end of it.

      SpaceX is still having trouble simply landing a rocket booster back on the same planet it came from, would they be able to do it with twice the amount of money? Ten times? A hundred times? Nope, they just have to try, fail, try again, and finally they'll get it right. It's not about money, it's about experience.

      Maybe try the moon first. I've always wondered why they didn't go for that first. See if you can get people to live there and survive. You can even get them back after a few years. Then, when we've got a colony up and running on the moon, we can start thinking about Mars.

    28. Re:News Media by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      I got the $4.5B cost from an independent MIT paper. I agree with you completely that this is not feasible with current technology.

    29. Re:News Media by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      The Mars has not a significant higher gravity, moon is roughly 1/6th of Earth, Mars is roughly 2/6th of Earth.

      Parachutes work fine on Mars, plenty of landings used them already.

      Here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V...

      Approached with parachutes, final landing with rocket engines.

      So, we have the technology since decades!

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    30. Re:News Media by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Libel laws are pretty the same in the USA.

      Perhaps they are rarer applied or juries harder to convince.

      Anyway, habitation structures are tested in deserts (and antarctica counts as that) for one simple reason: the inhabitants should feel a similarity to mars. That has nothing to do with the structures themselves. They only need to be airtight, need insulation and either cooling or heating, depending on situation. How to regenerate atmosphere we in principle know for our space stations and subs.

      But bottom line is that there are still technology and development hurdles to overcome which Mars One is not even starting on.
      You don't know that. Thats the point. How do you know they are not working on stuff or talking to contractors?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    31. Re:News Media by khallow · · Score: 1

      Libel laws are pretty the same in the USA.

      No, they aren't. For example, US law requires "actual malice" (intent to harm or willful neglect) in the uttering of such statements while in UK law one merely needs to show that the statement is defamatory.

      Anyway, habitation structures are tested in deserts (and antarctica counts as that) for one simple reason: the inhabitants should feel a similarity to mars. That has nothing to do with the structures themselves. They only need to be airtight, need insulation and either cooling or heating, depending on situation. How to regenerate atmosphere we in principle know for our space stations and subs.

      But they have not been tested on Mars. I'm not being a pedant here, this is actually formalized in technology readiness levels (TRL). At that point in the Wikipedia article, there are two similar scales of technology readiness for NASA and the ESA, each from 0 to 9. To get past level "6", one has to test the technology or system in the actual environment it will be in. For example, the NASA white paper that establishes TRL has this to say about TRL 7:

      TRL 7 is a significant step beyond TRL 6, requiring an actual system prototype demonstration in a space environment. It has not always been implemented in the past. In this case, the prototype should be near or at the scale of the planned operational system and the demonstration must take place in space. The driving purposes for achieving this level of maturity are to assure system engineering and development management confidence (more than for purposes of technology R&D). Therefore, the demonstration must be of a prototype of that application. Not all technologies in all systems will go to this level. TRL 7 would normally only be performed in cases where the technology and/or subsystem application is mission critical and relatively high risk. Example: the Mars Pathfinder Rover is a TRL 7 technology demonstration for future Mars micro-rovers based on that system design. Example: X-vehicles are TRL 7, as are the demonstration projects planned in the New Millennium spacecraft program.

      Moving on

      You don't know that. Thats the point. How do you know they are not working on stuff or talking to contractors?

      Because they talk about such things when they do them.

    32. Re:News Media by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      No, they aren't. For example, US law requires "actual malice" (intent to harm or willful neglect) in the uttering of such statements while in UK law one merely needs to show that the statement is defamatory.
      Actually as a non native english speaker, and a layman, I don't see a difference between the two.

      But they have not been tested on Mars.
      Sorry, the stuff we sent to moon was not tested on the moon, but in vacuum chambers. That should be enough for Mars stuff, too.

      Because they talk about such things when they do them.
      So they have not started yet. What about tomorrow?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    33. Re:News Media by khallow · · Score: 1

      Actually as a non native english speaker, and a layman, I don't see a difference between the two.

      You should. The US side one says intent matters. You can say things that happened to be defamatory in UK law, but aren't in US law because you don't intend to be defamatory nor exhibit willful neglect.

      Sorry, the stuff we sent to moon was not tested on the moon, but in vacuum chambers. That should be enough for Mars stuff, too.

      Actually a lot of it was. For example, NASA had prior to landing people on the Moon already tested in space the Apollo systems, including atmospheric reentry of the crew module and operation of the lunar module in space, the launch abort system, and landing objects on the Moon.

      So they have not started yet. What about tomorrow?

      Because about two years ago was a much better time to start than tomorrow. And once again, why does crew selection precede the actual mission by so many years?

    34. Re:News Media by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I believe you are mistaken about the US versus UK difference in linel laws.

      Of course intent or 'objectivity' matters in both situations.

      Not sure about the crews, I would not call them crew, but settlers. If they are selected today and start in 10 years, what is the problem?

      They need to be trained anyway. As much as I believe in my out door survival skills, I doubt I have the knowledge required for a sandy/dusty low gravity nearly no atmosphere environment regarding safty for my suit and repairs for habitats or other relevant technology.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    35. Re:News Media by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, not exactly. Parachutes work fine on Mars for small things. Getting enough equipment and supplies to sustain human life? Not so much.

    36. Re:News Media by khallow · · Score: 1

      Sorry, I believe you are mistaken about the US versus UK difference in linel laws.

      Then educate yourself on these laws. I told you why they're different. It's not my responsibility to change your mind for you.

      Not sure about the crews, I would not call them crew, but settlers. If they are selected today and start in 10 years, what is the problem?

      15 years at the bare minimum. I think that will result in at least a two thirds attrition rate over the time period. Circumstances change and 15 years is a long time to volunteer for something even if you really want it.

      And my view is that the lack of serious bending of metal now will mean that they aren't going to achieve their aggressive schedule.

  6. Human Flesh - would they know if they ate it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    =nt

  7. Mars one has now by invictusvoyd · · Score: 5, Funny

    abandoned it's plans to build a vehicle and are now building a giant horeshoe magnet to pull the planet closer to earth so that they can board it with wooden planks ..

    1. Re:Mars one has now by Kjella · · Score: 2

      abandoned it's plans to build a vehicle and are now building a giant horeshoe magnet to pull the planet closer to earth so that they can board it with wooden planks ..

      Wow that should double their change of success. Probably even triple it too. At the same time.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    2. Re:Mars one has now by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Zero times any number is still zero

    3. Re:Mars one has now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      >Zero times any number is still zero

      If you think that's spiffy, just look at the universal big-bang equation. I won't bore you with the whole thing, but it is sufficient to say that the key functionality is defined by a divide by zero.

      So was the universe intentional, or the result of a math error?

      Robots have much potential, but a good cook depends more on feedback than on watching a timer. Things like sensing the mold on cheese or how hot the peppers are might not be trivial.

      Will the designer have allowed sufficiently for every possible situation? Ask yourself that if you're practicing walking on your hands the day the circumcision bot comes by.

    4. Re:Mars one has now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    5. Re:Mars one has now by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Thanks to quantum mechanics, there is never a true zero in physical probability. It's always possible the entire planet might tunnel over to a new orbit - it's just ridiculously unlikely. To the point where you can start talking about 'average googolyears between events.' But not zero.

    6. Re:Mars one has now by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      but when the robot takes your job the gop gets rid of food stamps and you are in the prison you will push hard to get that $0.13 hr job in the kitchen

    7. Re: Mars one has now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They tried that with the native Americans. The Native American tribes preferred death to slavery.

    8. Re:Mars one has now by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately quantum effects only work on the quantum level, not on the macroscopic level.
      So the chance that Mars quantum leaps closer to earth is not only zero, it is in fact minus zero.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    9. Re:Mars one has now by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which just happens to be the same odds that:
      1) Mars One will happen
      2) That anyone will ever live on Mars for any reason
      3) That "the Species" will colonize the universe.

      See how simple reality can be?

    10. Re:Mars one has now by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Where does quantium stop and macroscopic begin? The boundry isn't clear.

    11. Re:Mars one has now by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Ofc the boundary is clear.
      Quantum effects happen on subatomic to atomic level. The biggest 'things' that have 'quantum properties' are Bose-Einstein condensates and so called quantum points on the surface of so called exotic matter.
      In other words if a thing is so big you can see it with the bare eye then it unlikely has any quantum properties.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  8. For the lov of GOD and Science and all things sane by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why is Slashdot posting articles daily on this horrible fantasy and perpetuating the myth that is MarsOne?

    They are supposed to have low credibility, but /. is doing a truly incredible job of giving them all the possible credibility they will ever need.

    Please stop posting articles about shams. Next thing we know, we will start seeing articles on Green Coffee Bean and Dr. Oz and his "science" and all the other shams out there.

  9. What will really happen by 7bit · · Score: 5, Interesting

    If the funders are really serious about creating a Reality TV experience about volunteers taking a one way trip to Mars then this is the only way they can do it at this time:

    1. They will publicly do exactly what they have been doing so far, all the while screening the applicants for those most likely to buy in to what they are being told.

    2. Once they have the final applicants sequestered and completely removed from the public and communication with the outside world they may or may not give hints to the public about what is really going to happen:

    What will really happen:

    The "Winners" will be totally isolated from communication with the public with the exception of very carefully screened media and family communications etc.

    They will be constantly filmed documentary style, which they already expect.

    After the Training "Season" and drama they will be boarded onto what is described to them as a top secret craft built by the Russians or whoever and carefully told that space travel technology is actually far advanced of what the public has been told and that they will be Pioneers in space exploration.

    They will actually be entering an expensive yet economically viable simulated ship (ala Ascension http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A... where they will then spend a number of months "traveling" to Mars with cameras in every room.

    After that season they will have a dramatic yet fright-filled arrival and landing at Mars. I assume at this point that they will pull a Capricorn One in some desert. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C... ).

    At some point, as each person dies for some reason, the truth will be revealed to each one and we will have the Drama of them having their 'Second Chance' at life.

    -- If done successfully and done right I would actually watch this drama. So everyone, please, shush! Don't tell those final 100 anything!

    1. Re:What will really happen by ronan7853 · · Score: 1

      There was a show called Space Cadets that pretty much did all of this ten years ago. (Well, except for the bit about going to Mars. I don't think anyone would have swallowed that.)

      --
      This sig consists of eleven words, twenty syllables, and sixty-one letters.
    2. Re:What will really happen by Kjella · · Score: 3, Funny

      If the funders are really serious about creating a Reality TV experience about volunteers taking a one way trip to Mars then this is the only way they can do it at this time: (...) At some point, as each person dies for some reason, the truth will be revealed to each one and we will have the Drama of them having their 'Second Chance' at life.

      So what you're saying is ditch the space tech, invent resurrection tech? Because if you die on reality TV you're dead. Or have you got it confused with fake scripted "reality" shows played by actors pretending to be ordinary people?

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:What will really happen by zamboni1138 · · Score: 1

      Simply, Wow. +6 for effort, producing a working business model, and because I'm literally watching the Oscars right now.

      I have been watching this Mars One drama for a little while now, and besides my main question of "Why not Moon First?", I was always trying to figure out the actual economics of it all. As others in this thread have pointed out NASA + ESA + RSA + JAXA, et all., are still firmly in LEO. Currently only one option available for human taxi service to said LEO.

      However, your description sounds like the best I've heard to date. As I read it I could imagine the "Mars One Crew Transfer Vehicle" circa 2024 in LEO with 64-bit color windows from W.O.O.L. How the fuck would the crew inside even know the difference?

      Landing them back on Earth (a.k.a. Mars) in a Truman Show situation with the whole reality TV bit ready to go is icing the cake thick.

    4. Re:What will really happen by Viol8 · · Score: 1

      Unless the "winners" are completely stupid - but then this is reality TV so who knows - they'll probably notice the complete lack of G's at "take off" and the persistence of gravity once they're supposedly in space.

      Personally I think 99.9% of the contestants know full well the whole thing is dubious but are going along with it simply to get the experience of astronaut training and have a bit of fun knowing the nearest they'll ever get to space is on the 747 on the way to the training centre.

    5. Re:What will really happen by 7bit · · Score: 1

      So what you're saying is ditch the space tech, invent resurrection tech? Because if you die on reality TV you're dead. Or have you got it confused with fake scripted "reality" shows played by actors pretending to be ordinary people?

      No. Lets use a little imagination on this. The "Missions" and directives will all be coming from those running the show, or "Truman Show Conspiracy". They merely need to set things up so that one member of the team needs to separate from the others due to environment or planned circumstance, or at least create a high probability of it.

      Once that member is out of sight they can shut off that members communication and have security "apprehend" them and take them off set. At that point they will film the emotional response of the shocked "astronaut". Then they will recruit them (with a non-filmed promise of more money) to ACT out a dramatic death sequence or some such for the other Mars astronauts to help make their environment and situation seem more real.

      The only thing "Fake" in that methodology would be the acting done by the person who finally discovered the truth and then agreed to help perpetuate the experience for the others. And of course they could then enjoy going on every talk show to talk about what the experience was like for them and how it "has forever changed their lives". Expect books to be released under their names too.

  10. time to learn from history by circletimessquare · · Score: 4, Interesting

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D...

    The Darien Scheme was an unsuccessful attempt by the Kingdom of Scotland to become a world trading nation by establishing a colony called "Caledonia" on the Isthmus of Panama on the Gulf of Darién in the late 1690s. The aim was for the colony to have an overland route that connected the Pacific and Atlantic oceans. From the beginning the undertaking was beset by poor planning and provisioning, divided leadership, lack of demand for trade goods, devastating epidemics of disease, and failure to anticipate the Spanish Empire's military response. It was finally abandoned in March 1700 after a siege by Spanish forces, which also blockaded the harbour.[1]

    As the Darien company was backed by 25–50% of all the money circulating in Scotland; its failure left the entire Lowlands almost completely ruined, and was an important factor in weakening their resistance to the Act of Union (completed in 1707). The land where the Darien colony was built is virtually uninhabited today.

    history lesson:

    some time in the next few centuries, there will be an interplanetary exploration/ colonization pyramid scheme that will bankrupt millions of people, maybe even a nation or two

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:time to learn from history by fustakrakich · · Score: 0

      there will be an interplanetary exploration/ colonization pyramid scheme that will bankrupt millions of people, maybe even a nation or two

      That will take way too much effort. For now we are content with bank fraud and war to bankrupt nations.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:time to learn from history by Alien1024 · · Score: 1

      No, you can't look at the history of early transatlantic empires and try to learn any lesson that's relevant for space/interplanetary exploration, period.

    3. Re:time to learn from history by dcollins · · Score: 1

      True. You really need to look at the cowboys/covered wagon period of the American Old West, that's the appropriate model.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    4. Re:time to learn from history by currently_awake · · Score: 1

      I think the lack of planning, divided leadership etc still applies.

  11. Can speak to SSTL... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... but maybe they realized that American aero contractors like Boeing and Lockheed are only useful for government contracts where the incoming money stream is huge and the actual quantity and quality of output is ... not.

  12. safety by fermion · · Score: 0
    We have been lucky we have no stranded ,alone, on an alien world. People have died leave and coming back to earth. That safety has costs a huge amount of money. Compare that to other explorations, the number of Europeans who were lost or starved to explore what is now the US. Look at Jamestown, a commercial operation, and the number of people who starved or froze. More than likely such risks are unacceptable to us now. Going to a literal new world under less than ideal conditions, where a dozen people might die in a horrible way, is probably unthinkable to us now, with our instant communication and seemingly endless food supply.

    It is not something a government is going to do. That is why it is unlikely that humans are going to leave the earth local area for a while yet, at least on a government craft.

    What we have to ask ourselves is there is value to actually being there. If there is value in actually learning to live in the harsh environment, to see what it is really like. We know that going to space is hard because no matter how carefully you try to work things out, there is always a gotcha you forget about. It is working out these problems in real time that teaches us how to cope and survive. This is true even in regular life, and some people fail, and die early. I clearly think there is a value to actually being there. I think that we do not have the technology to bring people back, so setting up a system where there is an even chance for some heroes to live out their lives and explore the planet would be good. If it is ok for someone to climb mount Everest even though several people die every year, but not to explore another planet? Mars One may be a scam. I don't think we are going to be able to explore other planets in person without higher risks than we have accepted thus far.

    --
    "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    1. Re:safety by jklovanc · · Score: 2

      so setting up a system where there is an even chance for some heroes to live out their lives and explore the planet would be good.

      Too bad that is not what is happening here. There is only a very small chance that the plan will ever get people to Mars. There is little chance that there will be enough money to send subsequent supply missions. There is a zero chance that an outpost will survive a few missed supply missions. Anyone sent to Mars will have their lives cut very short. The difference between Mars One and Age of Sail exploration is that there was some expectation that in worst case scenarios the explorers could live off the land. On Mars that is not possible.

      If it is ok for someone to climb mount Everest even though several people die every year, but not to explore another planet?

      Here are a few differences between Everest expeditions and Mars One.
      1. Everest expeditions do not cost billions of dollars.
      2. Everest expeditions do not require continued support for decades
      3. Everest expeditions do not sidetrack billions of dollars from actually useful endeavors.
      4. There is a chance of continuing to live after an Everest expedition. Mar one is a suicide mission.
      Allowing a few hundred people a year to waste their money and risk their lives is acceptable. More than 4,000 people have climbed Everest and 256 have died. That gives a 94% chance of survival. The Mars expedition has a 0% chance of survival. Bilking millions of people out of "application fees" and other promotions to fund an organization to plan an expedition that the organizers know has no chance of success is not acceptable. Lining the principal's pockets with the money from gullible people is not a noble pursuit.

      I don't think we are going to be able to explore other planets in person without higher risks than we have accepted thus far.

      Certain death is a very high risk indeed.

    2. Re:safety by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      All very good points except #4. Life itsself is a suicide mission. Many people would be willing to cut decades off their life to advance scientific knowledge and establish a foothold for humanity on another world - remember the alternative is to simply die at a later date, a lone statistic, soon to be forgotten and having achieved nothing of note. Death is inevitable, but it doesn't have to be for nothing.

      If I thought Mars One has a snowball's hope in Hell of actually getting there, I'd even be tempted myself. I'm good here for another seventy years, perhaps. Seventy years of ordinary menial life, or ten years pioneering and constructing the first long-term settlements on another world, and seeing the first wave of idealistic hopefuls come to start new lives beneath the radiation shields I helped to build, sustained by the machines I set up and maintained, bringing the promise of a new civilization and a safety net against the possibility of global disaster back on the old world? There would be no shortage of volunteers, and some of them will even be qualified in science and engineering.

      I don't think Mars One has any hope of pulling this off. Maybe China will some day - they have the long-term commitment to a project like that, and are on their way to becoming the world's number-one economy.

    3. Re:safety by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Going to Mars is no more a suicide mission than going to Thailand or Bali to spend there 'the rest of your life'.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    4. Re:safety by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Many people would be willing to cut decades off their life to advance scientific knowledge and establish a foothold for humanity on another world

      Again, too bad that is not what is happening. Scientific knowledge can be advanced much more economically with rovers than with an outpost. It is not a "foothold on another planet" when all the inhabitants will be dead withing 20 years. I doubt there will be any followup missions.

      Do you realize how many rover missions to Mars could be done for the cost of having one team of 4 people live in a hole on Mars? Do the math. You would rather spend billions on a pipe dream rather than spend much less for much more scientific understanding.

    5. Re:safety by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You Space Nutters are seriously mentally ill. You *CAN* LIVE in Thailand! You CAN'T on Mars!

      Why is this BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS fact not registering in your tiny Space Nutter brain!!!!!?????

    6. Re:safety by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Can't you see the difference between "the rest of your life" being ten years and it being 70 years? And another thing, if you get to Thailand and change your mind you can go somewhere else. Mars? Not so much.

    7. Re:safety by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Logic? With Space Nutters? Good luck with that! And ten *years*? I wouldn't give them ten HOURS.

    8. Re:safety by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "You would rather spend billions on a pipe dream rather than spend much less for much more scientific understanding."

      That's pretty much Space Nuttery. Oh they'll scream and they'll kick and they'll yell that they're are all about "science", but even a child can see through them.

    9. Re:safety by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I have no trouble going to Mars for the rest of my life.

      If it is so unfortunate so, that we rely to long on earth to support us, and I die there on lack of food, or what ever, I have no trouble with that either.

      I like the beautiful skies there, the sunrise, the desert ...

      Even if it was just the trip through space and I would die in flames during the landing, it would be worth it.

      Dying in flames during lift off, that would suck, though.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re:safety by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      If there was no money involved I would have no problem with that. There is money involved and it is billions. Spending billions on a few suicides is just moronic.

    11. Re:safety by iamacat · · Score: 1

      Hmm... I see very little chance and even limited desire for "the rest of my life" being 70 years. Hopefully there is a small chance of it being just 10 years but, being human, its not out of the question. As it happens I have some responsibilities on this planet I am not willing to step away from. But I fully understand people whose personal equations are different,

    12. Re:safety by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      You don't know if it is suicide.
      And if they don't even start, as you imply, it certainly is not :D

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    13. Re:safety by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      You don't know if it is suicide.

      Sending people to Mars without sufficient funds to keep them alive makes it a suicide mission. They may get off the ground but they will never be able to do the follow on missions.

      And if they don't even start, as you imply, it certainly is not :D

      Then it is a scam.

    14. Re:safety by fermion · · Score: 1

      Again, Mars One is not likely the best vehicle for human space exploration. Again, it may be that some highly indemnified commercial project is going to be the path to human exploration outside of the local area. The question asked is if Human Exploration provides some huge benefits that justify huge costs. I do not believe the answer is an absolute no. It could be that there is a path to paying for this in a productive manner. When we regularly spend half a billion dollars on a movie, including advertising and distribution, a couple billion on a space mission is not hard to think of. As far as competing manned and unmanned mission, this is where the commercial venture comes in. Where government tax dollars are often seen a zero sum sort of situation, the free market is not. A commercial human project to Mars does not exclude robot missions any more than humans climbing mountains precludes aerial tours of the same.

      --
      "She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
    15. Re:safety by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      Lets look at big budget movies. Notice that most of them returned much more than the investment.

      Where government tax dollars are often seen a zero sum sort of situation, the free market is not.

      Every public company in the free market has a legal obligation to make a profit. There is no multi-billion dollar return for putting people on Mars. It is a money pit. Why would any responsible company throw money at Mars with little or no hope of profit? They would have a better chance of getting their money bay by buying a lottery ticket. Company board members would be sued for investing in manned Mars missions. Mars 1 is a nonprofit that has no way of actually making money. All they are doing is soliciting investment from people and companies.

    16. Re:safety by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      Perhaps we shouldn't look at everything in terms of financial return on investment. There are lots of non-financial reasons to set up a manned mission - the advancement in technology such a venture would bring, taking the first step towards the more distant goal of a perminent settlement, the cultural impact as a new generation are inspired towards science and engineering much as the moon landing inspired their grandparents. It's a money pit, yes - but not everything in life is about money. Man did not go to the moon to seek wealth: That mission was driven by dreams for the future, patriotic international rivalry and (more cynically) the chance to develop a few military technologies on the way. There is your reason for a manned mission to mars. Not money. Plus you'd get some science from it too - rovers can barely scrape the surface, literally.

      The technology isn't there to start such a mission yet - launch costs are too high, mars-suitable landing technologies are still not well tested, and essential technologies still unrefined. This is not the time to go to mars, but it is the time to start developing the means to go in future.

    17. Re:safety by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      You Space Nutters are seriously mentally ill. You *CAN* LIVE in Thailand! You CAN'T on Mars!

      Why is this BLINDINGLY OBVIOUS fact not registering in your tiny Space Nutter brain!!!!!?????

      Well, when it gets down to it, you CAN GET to Thailand. They CAN'T TRAVEL to Mars. There's a 100% chance of survival through Mars One Program because nobody is actually going to go anywhere. But, if they are going to play at having the tech to get four people and a long term space habitat into space, on its way to Mars, and able to land reliably, then playing at having the needed tech to let them live there till they die of old age is relatively trivial. Of course, for that matter, the tech to get them back to Earth would be even more trivial.

    18. Re:safety by DanielRavenNest · · Score: 1

      > There is no multi-billion dollar return for putting people on Mars.

      Actually, there almost was, in the 1980's. A major TV network came to Boeing, where I worked at the time, and asked us how much for a Mars mission. We worked out a mission concept, and gave them an estimate. The network figured they could sell as much advertising for the mission as an Olympic games, but spread over a couple of years. Unfortunately the mission cost we came up with was twice the ad revenue, so it died at that point.

      If you can boost the revenue with things like "Mars, the video game", and "Mars, the branded merchandise", and cut costs with modern technology, you *might* get it within reach of break-even. Throw in some government-funded science payloads, and it might work a profit.

      Back then, there were only three TV networks, and they could command a big audience. I'm not sure a network could front that much these days, although they still compete for the Olympics.

    19. Re:safety by jklovanc · · Score: 1

      I can not find a reference to such a TV network/Boeing mission. Do you have any?

      The media rights for Sochi were sold for $775M. Using the MIT estimate of $4.5B for the initial outpost that would still leave it only 17% funded. This mission cost is over five times the revenue from an Olympic Games.

  13. not AND pursue by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OR pursue

  14. Plenty of circumstancial evidence of fraud by geekpowa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Firstly, their claim on their website "While complex, the Mars One Mission is feasible. The science and technology required to place humans on Mars exists today. ", is provably false and it is reasonable to expect authors of this statement know this to be false. First thing that always comes to my mind is delivery configuration for soft land something closely resembling required tonnage on the surface, including the 4 meat bags they claim they are able to send. Simply put, no viable configuration currently exists. When you look at tonnage Apollo landed on the moon, vs what government space agencies have successfully landed on Mars so far, vs what NASA is currently developing, there is an enormously absurd leap of faith to say landing ppl on Mars is feasible with today's tech.

    Secondly, a document like this : http://www.mars-one.com/images..., just stinks of handwaving with overuse of technical flourishes, fails to deal with funadmental issues, i.e. the weight issue, and seems to be created with an intent to deceive and create false assurance that mission profile is both well defined and accessible.

    Accepting that proof of fraud is far from conclusive, the whole thing just reeks to high heaven of fraud.

    1. Re:Plenty of circumstancial evidence of fraud by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      If those meat bags are sent dead, or don't breathe, drink, or eat along the way, it might be possible.

      You could also do it with multiple launches and in-orbit assembly.

    2. Re:Plenty of circumstancial evidence of fraud by geekpowa · · Score: 1

      Agree. Getting stuff into the vicinity of Mars might be possible. Getting gear down onto the surface to facilitate even just a few months life support is impossible.

    3. Re:Plenty of circumstancial evidence of fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need those belts from TOS Trek that turn people into styrofoam blocks with a '60s boioioioioing sound effect.

    4. Re:Plenty of circumstancial evidence of fraud by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      First human-meat-covered crater on Mars! There'll still be volunteers.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    5. Re:Plenty of circumstancial evidence of fraud by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You take them apart nicely!

    6. Re:Plenty of circumstancial evidence of fraud by Beck_Neard · · Score: 1

      > Firstly, their claim on their website "While complex, the Mars One Mission is feasible. The science and technology required to place humans on Mars exists today. "

      Yes, as I said, wishful thinking. Fraud is "deliberate deception to secure unfair or unlawful gain." There's no evidence here that people are being deliberately deceived. "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity."

      --
      A fool and his hard drive are soon parted.
  15. What ARE you saying? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    That Mars One doesn't have a way to print money? Pity, that.

  16. Something doesn't add up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What am I missing? The contracts have been completed, so that should mean everything (from that perspective) is ready to go. Why would they renew such contracts?

  17. Hyphenated domain name? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eventual failure should have been obvious from the beginning. No company with a hyphenated domain name is taking humans to Mars.

  18. I thought they dropped the plans... by clickety6 · · Score: 1

    I thought they dropped the plans for a remake of "Capricorn One" back in 2010. Looks like they're back on the table again.

    --
    ----------------------------------- My Other Sig Is Hilarious -----------------------------------