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Use Astrology To Save Britain's Health System, Says MP

An anonymous reader writes: An MP from the governing Conservative Party has said that using astrology could radically improve the performance of Britain's National Health Service and that its opponents are "racially prejudiced" and driven by "superstition, ignorance and prejudice." David Treddinick even claims he has "helped" fellow legislators through astrology.

29 of 320 comments (clear)

  1. Oblig by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/health/aortic-aneurysms-caused-by-movement-of-saturn-admits-nhs-2015022595714

  2. Please tell me this is satire by Headw1nd · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is...is this real? Not some wayward story from The Onion?

    1. Re:Please tell me this is satire by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Informative

      Unfortunately it's real. Tredinnick has been infamous for these sorts of comments for years now.

    2. Re:Please tell me this is satire by knightghost · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I blame the people that voted him in. Politicians are the result, voters are the cause.

    3. Re:Please tell me this is satire by mrchaotica · · Score: 4, Insightful

      On the bright side, it's nice to be able to point to this guy when some European elitist claims that Americans (or more specifically, southerners) somehow have a monopoly on unscientific idiocy.

      --

      "[Regarding the 'cloud,'] ownership was what made America different than Russia." -- Woz

    4. Re:Please tell me this is satire by Racemaniac · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm actually wondering what the result would be if they began implementing this.

      From a pure biological point of view it's ofcourse pure bullshit.

      But we can hardly deny that our current doctors just suck with the psychological side of feeling bad/illnesses. A lot of the power in "alternative medicine" is to support the people mentally, which as the placebo effect shows also helps quite a bit. It doesn't cure your cancer, but adding some spiritual side to the process that doesn't treat the people as patient #145563255 might actually give quite a positive result.

      I think that no longer ignoring the psychological needs of people who are ill is one of the next big medical challenges. I've read people who fought cancer who said that the interaction with doctors & staff is also one of the hardest things. They seem to think you should be able to deal with all the shit that comes with it yourself and be fully informed and pay attention to every detail etc... while you're feeling like shit due to chemotherapy and are trying to resolve everything in your life before it's too late.

      Now we seem to have 2 branches of "medicine". One that cures your body, but doesn't care much about your mind. And one that's full of "you should feel good and be happy" but doesn't know shit about your body (well, depending on the alternative medicine. there are some that do know some things, but still won't cure cancer).

    5. Re:Please tell me this is satire by Luckyo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm getting a feeling that most people here are going to say some incredibly anti-democratic things in here in a moment without even realising it.

      Reality is, democratically elected parliament isn't supposed to be a bunch of elites but a cross-section of electorate. That means it needs to have a few superstitious people to be able to properly represent the population which also has such people in statistically significant amounts.

    6. Re:Please tell me this is satire by Racemaniac · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I mean in common treatment. Unless you complain about psychological issues (or act really really weird), you won't see anyone who really cares about your mental status. People with serious illnesses who go to modern medicine for treatment end up in a pharmacological & scientific world where their body will be scanned, probed, checked, double checked, analysed, etc.... they'll be given substances & treatments to cure whatever they find. But psychological assistance to go along with this just doesn't belong in that world it seems. You're here for cancer, not for feeling good about yourself.
      And i think we still vastly underestimate how much also feeling good actually helps us get trough things, and helps our body going in such grave situations.

    7. Re:Please tell me this is satire by Trepidity · · Score: 4, Informative

      I could see that in a proportional-representation system. If 10% of the population is really into homeopathy, they could vote for a party that represents those interests. But the UK has a first-past-the-post system, like the US, meaning members are elected by getting the most votes in a specific district. Is Tredinnick's district really majority in favor of astrology being funded by the NHS? My guess is no, and that he's elected despite this issue, not because of it. Incumbents are very hard to knock off, especially outside of marginal districts (his district is a Conservative stronghold, and the UK has no party primaries), so he keeps winning regardless of whether his district's residents think astrology is useful or not.

    8. Re:Please tell me this is satire by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Did the voters really have a choice? For a start the choice at the general election is for both the ruling party and local MP, so if your national party of choice puts up an idiot as your local candidate you can support one or the other but not both.

      Tredinnick had a 9% majority in 2010, ahead of the the Liberal Democrats. Their vote has collapsed now though... The most realistic alternative might be UKIP in his constituency. So it's a choice between someone who believes in astrology and closet racists, or maybe treacherous liars if the LDs can pull it back together.

      We rejected the alternative vote and I imagine would reject PR on similar grounds (too thick to understand it), so this is what we are going to be stuck with for the foreseeable future.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:Please tell me this is satire by itzly · · Score: 5, Funny

      Did the voters really have a choice?

      No, it was in the stars.

    10. Re:Please tell me this is satire by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The Onion is not fake, they are just ahead of reality. They predicted:

      - RIAA sues radio stations for playing free music

      - Gillette creates 5-blade razor

      - Neil Armstrong's widow cleans out closet of "space crap" (finds museum gems)

      - Joe The Plumber ("dude" pundit)

      - Charlie Sheen going violent

      - Newly elected Bush announcing era of peace and prosperity is over (911, Iraq, mortgage crash)

      - Ann Coulter saying radiation good for you. (Oh wait, Onion missed that one.)

    11. Re:Please tell me this is satire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Homeopathy works better the fewer people believe in it.

    12. Re:Please tell me this is satire by kanweg · · Score: 5, Interesting

      "Reality is, democratically elected parliament isn't supposed to be a bunch of elites but a cross-section of electorate. That means it needs to have a few superstitious people to be able to properly represent the population which also has such people in statistically significant amounts."

      We let the people who can cook well be cooks, the people who drive well be drivers, etc. etc. Except politicians. Apparently it is perfectly possible to run a country without any qualifications (except perhaps the skill to convince other to vote for you). Or by averaging the opinion of milions of people. That is a terrible kind of democracy.

      I would like politicians to pass various exams before they're allowed to "rule". (Logical reasoning, fallacies, decision making).
      I would like anyone to be able to comment on whatever is up for vote (in a moderated system where any comment is allowed only once). So, a single individual could change the outcome, by having a strong argument or a better idea, benefitting everyone.

      Why choose for a form of democracy that results in mediocrity, instead of excellence?

      Bert

  3. He is linking homeopathy to astrology by abies · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Ninety per cent of pregnant French women use homeopathy. Astrology is a useful diagnostic tool enabling us to see strengths and weaknesses via the birth chart."

    At first, I have failed to see the common ground between homeopathy and astrology - these two sentences sounded completely unrelated. But they are actually related - it says
    "90% of French women are gullible enough to fall for homeopathy. This means that most of them are stupid enough to also believe astrology crap, so market is ripe"

    1. Re:He is linking homeopathy to astrology by Guybrush_T · · Score: 5, Informative

      I confirm that here in France, homeopathy is very common, and even MDs frequently use it.

      But let's be serious. The placebo effect is one of the most effective thing in medical problems. The problem with it is that if you don't believe in it, it no longer works. Building false theories that makes sense for most people is therefore a skill that can be much more effective than finding real cures.

      So, in a way, I can't blame people who use it just because, as an ultra-rational guy, I do not have the "chance" of being able to use those things with a positive effect. Maybe using astrology and homeopathy would indeed increase the efficiency of the health system. Not because it prevents illnesses, but just because we have to recognize that it really works by misleading people's brain.

  4. Nutjob Tory MP in Irrational Lunacy Shock by Oxygen99 · · Score: 4, Informative

    Tredinnick's a nut who has form for this kind of statement.

    Still. At least he's not on the House of Commons Health Committe or anything. What's that? Oh...

    --
    I had a dream, bright and carefree, but now there's doubt and gravity
  5. US Monopoly by crunchy_one · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'd like to remind David Treddinick, and any other non-US citizens contemplating similar actions, that we in the US take our intellectual property rights seriously. We believe that we and we alone enjoy the right to use or sell crackpot politicians. Unless Mr. Teddinick has a license for our technology, he's set himself up to be on the receiving end of some very strongly worded letters from our attorneys.

  6. What an idiot... by Buchenskjoll · · Score: 5, Funny

    but what else would you expect from a capricorn...

    --
    -- Make America hate again!
  7. Re:Wow .... by Erikderzweite · · Score: 3, Funny

    Dumb as a box of hammers, looking to spend taxpayer money on unproven voodoo, and this guy is a conservative??

    Well, yes. I fail to see the contradiction though.

  8. Re:Wow .... by JonnyCalcutta · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's what 'conservative' means - living in the past. Its a bit like being amish but you can have serfs work the land for you.

  9. A difficult birth... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Astrology is a useful diagnostic tool enabling us to see strengths and weaknesses via the birth chart."

    Doctor: Hmm, I've consulted the charts and I'm afraid you're in for a difficult birth. It would seem that on the due date your Sun will be in Uranus.

  10. He actually could be right. No joke. by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Seriously.

    I did consult a homeopath in the 90ies and early 2000nds, mostly because my mother was all super-pushy about it and I wanted her to quit pestering me. He would question me on the phone for 40 to 60 minutes. His anamnesis was the best I ever had. I don't recall if I even opened the package that came a week or so later containing the "LM Potence" of some obscure Homeopathic substance, i.e. a water and alcohol mixture in a small important looking flask. But I do remember being way calmer and way more educated on my condition. I thought I had heart problems and he pin-pointed reflux after the extensive questionaire and talk on the phone.
    I've never spoken to an doctor for that long and I'd be suprised if any doctor had time or could afford such a thing. I would like to have such a medical expert to talk to that does not push obscure 'treatment' on me, that would be optimal.

    I treated my reflux with healing-earth, baking soda, meditation/relaxation excercise and a change in diet and told my MD who wanted to sell me a "heart and lung condition" diagnosed in the record time of 2.5 minutes to fuck off. Never had problems since.

    The point is: Good Homeopaths are actually quite well medically educated and can be terrific "anameticists" (wording?), because their main job actually is to talk to the patient, find out what's bugging him and - ideally - do a solid diagnose. That they only prescribe sugar-pills is a minor nuiscance from that perspective.

    If astrology would lead to a new occupation in which the main purpose is talking to the patient and find out what exactly the condition is, it could be a good thing. Wether the professional in question would be a homeopath, an astrologer, magician or whatnot wouldn't really matter. Only treatment then, of course, would need to be decided upon by a different party.

    Modern medicine need a profession specifically for anamnesis. Until that happens, homeopaths and perhaps even astrologers will fill that gap. Poorly at time perhaps, but they'll fill it.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:He actually could be right. No joke. by sribe · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I've never spoken to an doctor for that long and I'd be suprised if any doctor had time or could afford such a thing.

      No, but a decent doctor could do the differential diagnosis of reflux vs heart problems in about 1 minute flat, without spending most of an hour on irrelevant bullshit intended only to impress the gullible (which looks like it worked, at least in this case).

  11. Re:When applied correctly homeopathy is GREAT! by khasim · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In those instances, why bother with homoeopathy? Why not go straight to sugar pills/water?

    And THAT is the problem with his claims.

    It isn't important whether reading YOUR horoscope makes YOU "feel" better about YOURSELF.

    It's whether reading someone else's AND BELIEVING IT IS YOURS makes you "feel" better about yourself.

    So ..... do we foster an anti-science belief system because some people can self-invoke the placebo effect? Or do point out that it is nothing more than the placebo effect?

  12. Re:Wow .... by squiggleslash · · Score: 3, Funny

    I'm more bothered he's a Capricorn, I mean, really! Us Capricorns don't generally believe in this astrology crap.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  13. Re:Wow .... by nedlohs · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It means "holding to traditional attitudes and values and cautious about change or innovation" which yes would usually mean you have stupid beliefs. Since "traditional" is another word for "old" with a connotation that that is better than something new just because it is older.

    Whereas non-stupid beliefs would be those that are justified by evidence, and you wouldn't need to label them traditional to justify them since you have that evidence even when they are in fact old.

  14. Re:When applied correctly homeopathy is GREAT! by CaptainDork · · Score: 4, Funny

    When applied correctly, Xanax is a safe and effective palindrome.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  15. Re:There is some truth to it by DahGhostfacedFiddlah · · Score: 4, Informative

    Ask any police officer or health care provider how people act during the full moon. They will almost always tell you that they are busier and people are crazier around that time of the month - consistently - although they can't quite explain why.

    Confirmation bias. I've heard the same thing from nurses, but the fact is, no correlation has been found.