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NSA Spying Wins Another Rubber Stamp

Posted by Soulskill on from the once-more-unto-the-privacy-breach dept.

schwit1 sends this report from the National Journal: A federal court has again renewed an order allowing the National Security Agency to continue its bulk collection of Americans' phone records, a decision that comes more than a year after President Obama pledged to end the controversial program. The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court approved this week a government request to keep the NSA's mass surveillance of U.S. phone metadata operating until June 1, coinciding with when the legal authority for the program is set to expire in Congress. The extension is the fifth of its kind since Obama said he would effectively end the Snowden-exposed program as it currently exists during a major policy speech in January 2014. Obama and senior administration officials have repeatedly insisted that they will not act alone to end the program without Congress.

43 of 87 comments (clear)

  1. "Obama pledged to end the controversial program" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Wasn't that Senator Obama?!?!?!

    "If you like your plan, you can keep it."

  2. He will only act alone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    - to block oil pipeline construction
    - to import millions of new immigrants to compete with you for jobs
    - to have the IRS harass his political opponents
    - to spy on the press
    - to send troops to Iraq
    - to postpone nearly every legal deadline in Obamacare
    - to approve the Comcast -Time Warner merger
    - to impose new taxes on your internet service in the name of net neutrality

    But when he's using the NSA to spy on you, he blames Congress.

    1. Re:He will only act alone by dugancent · · Score: 1

      yawn

      --
      SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
    2. Re:He will only act alone by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But when he's using the NSA to spy on you, he blames Congress.

      "using the NSA" ?!?

      I doubt anyone is "using" the NSA @ this point. Other than as a source of info - for those who have access.

      More like the NSA is an 'entity' that operates on its own. With money flowing in from a variety of sources, some government, some non-government, some legit, some non-legit. Doing whatever it's doing without much oversight, possibly continuing to do some things even if declared illegal by a court of law.

      I assume there's some people in that organisation that take orders from the US president directly, other employees may get note of what the US president wants & to some degree try to make that happen. But overall? A big-ass train that keeps on steaming ahead in whatever direction(s) it's going.

      Of course the proper response would be to cut funding, bring people doing illegal things to justice, and strengthen oversight until the NSA does answer to those authorities it's supposed to take orders from. Fat chance that's going to happen in a climate where the "War on terrorists! War on drugs! Think of the children!" fire is burning strong. :-(

    3. Re:He will only act alone by anagama · · Score: 1

      Don't forget destroying the War Powers Act to wage war in Libya. Remember to thank Obama when another Dick Cheney type commits random war without even a nod to Congress or the Constitution.

      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    4. Re:He will only act alone by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      truth is trolling now???

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    5. Re:He will only act alone by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      well, technically you are right. but also, congress needs to approve the war, obama cant simple declare war, congress does.

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    6. Re:He will only act alone by reboot246 · · Score: 1

      I can go along with hanging ALL of the politicians in Washington D.C., and most of the employees of those 3-letter agencies.

      I can't stand the bastard, but it's not all Obama's fault. They're all to blame.

    7. Re:He will only act alone by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      your government has created a monster that they don't dare rein in - any serious attempt to do so would be political suicide because the spies can dig up dirt (and probably already have done so) on all of them.

      the dirt doesn't even have to be evidence of wrong-doing or illegality, as long as it's disturbing or annoying to enough of the public (and the american public are mostly judgemental arseholes over even trivial things)....has a mistress, is a closet homosexual, did drugs (and inhaled!) and other irrelevancies.

      even those who have "nothing to hide" can't and won't act because they are in the minority and under severe pressure from their colleagues who do....make a principled stand now, be booted from the party and any chance of election next time.

      this is, no doubt, why allegedly democratic governments around the world are rushing to introduce legislation allowing and even requiring the mass surveillance of citizens - they don't dare not to, too much dirt on them will be exposed.

      and then, of course, there's all the corporate lobbying in favour of spying on the public - from simple stuff like RIAA and MPAA wanting data on downloaders to corporates wanting dossiers on "evil terrorists" who go to protest rallies and leak info on the evil shit they're doing.

    8. Re:He will only act alone by cas2000 · · Score: 1

      they thought nothing of snowden because they're too busy being distracted by important stuff like blue-white dresses and llamas.

  3. Cool... so now what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Seriously though... now what?

    I'm getting sick of people telling me I'm a "lazy, apathetic american" for letting this happen.

    Right... like there's something I, or any of us, could've actually done to prevent any of this. Secret courts, laws that aren't actually laws, and judges that continue to pull sh!t like this?? Tell me, honestly... what do you REALLY think we can do? And if you do have a great idea, please let us know while it's still legal.

    1. Re:Cool... so now what? by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      there is. you could have not voted for obama the 2nd time when you saw how horrible he was the first time

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
    2. Re:Cool... so now what? by Dragon+Bait · · Score: 1

      To start with: vote out incumbents. Do it again and again with each election until behavior changes.

      Vote third party. If the first candidate that gets elected fails expectations, see above.

      Unfortunately, you're being contradictory. You can't vote out the incumbents by voting for the third party -- alone. If you want a third party (or indepent) to have a chance, you have to actively campaign for the candidate. Even then, it will be an uphill battle that you'll probably lose.

  4. PRISM lists companies not software by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It's worth remember at this stage, that PRISM, NSA's bulk mass collection program is a list of company NAMES, not software products or databases:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PRISM_%28surveillance_program%29#mediaviewer/File:Prism_slide_5.jpg

    So it is not a hack of Microsoft or Google, and it is not that 'MSN Messager' was decrypted, it lists COMPANIES, it is Microsoft not a product within Microsoft.

    So you need to realize that these companies provide data feeds to the NSA for their customers, not limited to terrorists or suspicion, bulk data feeds to fill up Utah and the other 5 mega data centers they're building.

    And it only covers the data feeds up to 2012 when Apple was added. After that there's been a massive increase in the surveillance, courtesy of Android.

    All those permissions you have those messaging apps, your financial stuff, your taxi/ride-sharing app that tracks your every move, all that crapware installed on Android that gets all the rights it can and takes all the data it can.

    It's far beyond the meta data on the telephone calls. That wouldn't even fill the tiniest corner of one of those data centers.

  5. spying is a drug by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    and the various governments (this is not about the US, its about the new trend, or rather the new-found ability in mankind to truly neutralize all privacy and secret communications) are all addicted to this drug.

    they can't give it up. they have a monkey on their back.

    the stingrays are the gateway drug; and it soon is not enough and you want more. you want ALL the wireless and wired datacomms traffic.

    we should shift our war-on-drugs effort to the real drug that is invading everyone's lives, though due to no fault of their own.

    and again, this is not about the US or its agencies. do you really believe your own government is not wanting or having the ability to do this, as well?

    this is about mankind and one of his worst weaknesses.

    we should make a 'teaching moment' from this and disallow ourselves this ability. just like we really can't handle the responsibility of nukes, as a people, we can't handle THIS much power, either.

    no one should have it. and yes, I truly mean NO ONE. you give it to one, and the rest want it (both good guys and bad guys).

    will we use this as a teaching moment and make some change for the better?

    well, I'm over 50 and have no hope left for us, as a species. we have proven we can't handle this level of responsibility. I don't expect change, but I do expect people to at least SEE what's going on and to try to work around it without giving up, entirely.

    --

    --
    "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    1. Re:spying is a drug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      well, I'm over 50 and have no hope left for us, as a species. we have proven we can't handle this level of responsibility. I don't expect change, but I do expect people to at least SEE what's going on and to try to work around it without giving up, entirely.

      Nope, everyone is too busy with the stupid dress optical illusion to care.

    2. Re:spying is a drug by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      ...well, I'm over 50 and have no hope left for us, as a species.

      BAH! You kids know nothing. We're at the top of our game, and getting better! Get the fuck off my lawn!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:spying is a drug by boa · · Score: 1

      "Even Aristotle said that a democracy naturally degenerates into despotism. The United States is simply repeating the past, though one must say in a much faster tempo than its predecessors."

      ITYM Rosseau, not Aristotle.

      "When the State is dissolved, the abuse of government, whatever it is, bears the common name of anarchy. To distinguish, democracy degenerates into ochlocracy, and aristocracy into oligarchy; and I would add that royalty degenerates into tyranny; but this last word is ambiguous and needs explanation."
      http://files.libertyfund.org/p...

    4. Re:spying is a drug by Celarent+Darii · · Score: 1

      Actually, Rousseau is just copying from Aristotle's Politics [5, v]. Here is an interesting quote that reminds us of our own times. (in this translation despotes is made into 'tyrant') :

      Revolutions in democracies are generally caused by the intemperance of demagogues, who either in their private capacity lay information against rich men until they compel them to combine (for a common danger unites even the bitterest enemies), or coming forward in public stir up the people against them. The truth of this remark is proved by a variety of examples. At Cos the democracy was overthrown because wicked demagogues arose, and the notables combined. At Rhodes the demagogues not only provided pay for the multitude, but prevented them from making good to the trierarchs the sums which had been expended by them; and they, in consequence of the suits which were brought against them, were compelled to combine and put down the democracy. The democracy at Heraclea was overthrown shortly after the foundation of the colony by the injustice of the demagogues, which drove out the notables, who came back in a body and put an end to the democracy. Much in the same manner the democracy at Megara was overturned; there the demagogues drove out many of the notables in order that they might be able to confiscate their property. At length the exiles, becoming numerous, returned, and, engaging and defeating the people, established the oligarchy. The same thing happened with the democracy of Cyme, which was overthrown by Thrasymachus. And we may observe that in most states the changes have been of this character. For sometimes the demagogues, in order to curry favor with the people, wrong the notables and so force them to combine; either they make a division of their property, or diminish their incomes by the imposition of public services, and sometimes they bring accusations against the rich that they may have their wealth to confiscate.

      Of old, the demagogue was also a general, and then democracies changed into tyrannies. Most of the ancient tyrants were originally demagogues. They are not so now, but they were then; and the reason is that they were generals and not orators, for oratory had not yet come into fashion. Whereas in our day, when the art of rhetoric has made such progress, the orators lead the people, but their ignorance of military matters prevents them from usurping power; at any rate instances to the contrary are few and slight. Tyrannies were more common formerly than now, for this reason also, that great power was placed in the hands of individuals; thus a tyranny arose at Miletus out of the office of the Prytanis, who had supreme authority in many important matters. Moreover, in those days, when cities were not large, the people dwelt in the fields, busy at their work; and their chiefs, if they possessed any military talent, seized the opportunity, and winning the confidence of the masses by professing their hatred of the wealthy, they succeeded in obtaining the tyranny. Thus at Athens Peisistratus led a faction against the men of the plain, and Theagenes at Megara slaughtered the cattle of the wealthy, which he found by the river side, where they had put them to graze in land not their own. Dionysius, again, was thought worthy of the tyranny because he denounced Daphnaeus and the rich; his enmity to the notables won for him the confidence of the people. Changes also take place from the ancient to the latest form of democracy; for where there is a popular election of the magistrates and no property qualification, the aspirants for office get hold of the people, and contrive at last even to set them above the laws. A more or less complete cure for this state of things is for the separate tribes, and not the whole people, to elect the magistrates.

  6. Re:"Obama pledged to end the controversial program by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

    Wasn't that Senator Obama?!?!?!

    Not in JAN 2014 it wasn't. Or did you think he was elected President late last year?

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  7. Re:"Obama pledged to end the controversial program by g0bshiTe · · Score: 1

    More like

    "if you don't like NSA spying, you can keep it"

    --
    I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
  8. Re:"Obama pledged to end the controversial program by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Wasn't that Senator Obama?!?!?!

    Not in JAN 2014 it wasn't. Or did you think he was elected President late last year?

    Senator and Candidate Obama railed against "warrantless wiretapping" and pledged he'd end such activities were he elected.

    Seven and eight years ago.

    He's had six fucking years as President to do what he as a Senator and candidate said he'd do.

    Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Obama seems to have fooled YOU for seven years running.

  9. Son of Carnivore by Dragon+Bait · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Is there are reason that we haven't heard about the Clinton's FBI's Carnivore (or descendants of carnivore) lately?

    Don't get me wrong. I'm glad we're hearing about Obama's continuation of Bush's domestic spying. But just wondering why we aren't hearing about Obama continuing Clinton's domestic spying.

    1. Re:Son of Carnivore by anagama · · Score: 1

      Well, the bickering is helpful if it exposes Hillary Clinton as the vanguard of the Democrats' transition into the New GOP. I don't know what it takes for people to see that she's a right wing bloodthirsty neocon willing to ignore information in order to start useless war. Maybe this will help, from way back when she voted to go to war in Iraq:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      • 1:40 HRC enters room
      • ~ Code pink intro: war in Iraq will harm American and Iraqi families and cost a lot.
      • 6:30 HRC parrots the WMD arguments, blames the danger to Iraqis on Hussein, ignores harm to Americans, financial costs, and the fact that Iraq was not a threat to the US nor involved in 9/11.
      • 8:52 HRC lies about careful review of WMD info. HRC never even read the National Intelligence Estimate which while suggesting WMDs existed, also contained significant disagreements with that conclusion that a reader not interested in a particular outcome would have agreed called the whole thing into question.
      • 10:00 Audience member: not up to the US to disarm Hussein, up to the world community, Iraq has no connection to terrorism, not only are Iraqi people in danger, so are US people, and will harm the economy. It's reckless.
      • 11:14 HRC: The world community would not take on difficult problems without US forcing the issue. Goes on and on about Bosnia. Segues into how GWB tax cuts are a bad idea.
      • 13:29 Interesting note on the negative effect of the tax cuts: "Here at home, this administration is bankrupting our economy forcing us to make the worst kinds of false choices between national and homeland security, which they don't fund ..."
      • -- IOW, HRC would have preferred GWB raise taxes for more war and domestic surveillance. --
      • 14:12 HRC is given a pink slip
      • 14:20 HRC goes off: "I am the Senator from NY I will never put my people at risk ..."
      • -- Yeah, like Saddam had anything to do with 9/11
      --
      What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
    2. Re:Son of Carnivore by ganjadude · · Score: 1

      simple. hillary

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  10. Yeah, that's the ticket... by JohnnyDoesLinux · · Score: 1

    Jon Lovitz had nooo idea what he was starting..

    Politicians are all card carrying members of the Pathological Liars Anonymous club...

    1. Re: Yeah, that's the ticket... by JohnnyDoesLinux · · Score: 1

      Sorry about yahoo (the ad for clear blue easy that you cannot skip, I am soo sorry)

  11. Re:So I was walking down the street by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    Poor song choice is all.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  12. The problem is not the renewal ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 3, Interesting

    ... it's that there are not a WHOLE lot more Mannings and Snowdens.

    Leak that shit both from the US and UK.

    Secrets are a bitch when 1.) you get caught with one and 2.) it's no longer a secret.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:The problem is not the renewal ... by jodido · · Score: 1

      Not clear to me why more leaks would help. We got lots of info from Snowden and Manning and what did that fix?

    2. Re:The problem is not the renewal ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Good point, but ... ... Manning's shit was mostly political. For that reason, we can assign about a 50% priority to the stuff because there are at least two reactions to that: for or against.

      Snowden's stuff is more provocative, and upsetting, but it's dated.

      What we need is transparency. Looks like the only way that's going to happen is if Americans in the "know," step up.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  13. Re:One more fucking shyster. by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    Well what do you expect when it doesn't even arouse the feeblest of resistance? In fact it is rewarded. The lone simple fact is that people are okay with it.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  14. Re:"Obama pledged to end the controversial program by StevenMaurer · · Score: 2

    Senator and Candidate Obama railed against "warrantless wiretapping" and pledged he'd end such activities were he elected.

    "Wiretapping" - Definition: Listening to the actual conversation being made, not looking up who called who and when, which has always been subject to judicial subpoenas without the need for a warrant. Hell, in that old 1995 movie "Clueless", Alicia Silverstone's character is shown helping her lawyer dad go through call sheets of who called who in a civil lawsuit. This sort of stuff always has been so common that it was put in a rom-com.

    Here's the thing. Law is very much like coding. The specifics matter.

  15. As long as it is Obama it is ok by chasisaac · · Score: 1

    Obama is not spying on people. What does he care. He would never use the government to hurt people. And since a Republican will never be elected again we have nothing to worry about.

    --
    -- A computer without Windoze is like a choclate cake without mustard
  16. Re:Yer a cunt, Harry. by anagama · · Score: 2

    Don't be a retard. The name means nothing, at least to liberals like me. His actions however make him somewhat to the right of Richard Nixon. For Obama to be worse is somewhat of an anti-achievement, but face it, he has engaged in more war and more surveillance than Nixon could even have imagined, and he got Nixon's health care plan passed.

    So, while you are there making fun of republicans, what you fail to recognize is that the Democrats ARE the fucking new Republicans.

    --
    What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  17. The real renewel is in 6 months, what now? by sasparillascott · · Score: 1

    Sad to see the court continue it, but not unexpected. I would expect we'll continue to hear how at risk we are from (insert name of Islamic fanactical group here - ISIS currently) etc. by the intelligence establishment in a building crescendo to the renewal date (as a justification, even though it didn't help a whit with Boston or prior events) - cause here's the thing, IMHO, 95% of U.S. politicians are cowards and the cowardly view on this is the following: If I vote against renewing mass surveillance and then some attack happens (cause of all this ISIS stuff I keep hearing about), there goes my next re-election - standing up for privacy of the citizens I "represent" isn't worth it...

    1. Re:The real renewel is in 6 months, what now? by Dragon+Bait · · Score: 1

      ... here's the thing, IMHO, 95% of U.S. politicians are cowards...

      Optimist.

  18. Re:One more fucking shyster. by anagama · · Score: 1

    Even here, on /., a comment in support of the Constitution and privacy is downmodded. Things are pretty hopeless.

    --
    What changed under Obama? Nothing Good
  19. Re:*facepalm* by ganjadude · · Score: 1

    Communism is the seizure of capital by labor, followed in theory by a dictatorship of the proletariat which serves to organizes labor and resources "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need"

    But isnt that what obama is doing with HC?? when it comes to "wealth redistribution" the only difference is hes just taking from the rich and middle class and giving to the poor and non americans

    --
    have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  20. Re:*facepalm* by Dragon+Bait · · Score: 1

    (I vote Thomas Jefferson because he signed the Alien and Sedition acts)

    Jefferson?!? You mean John Adams signed the Alien and Sedition acts. Jefferson got them to go away.

  21. Re:"Obama pledged to end the controversial program by Patent+Lover · · Score: 1

    Not even close since 9/11 (think of the children!) https://www.aclu.org/national-...

  22. Re:Here are some clues for you : by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

    tl;dr

    So, no link ...

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  23. Less incentive to buy American by ikhider · · Score: 1

    I guess people will take their e-commerce business elsewhere. No point in supporting the playground bully. Other hubs will surface, hegemony won't last.

    --
    "SO we bide our time, waiting for a purer kick to bloom and the future is still bleak, uncertain and beautiful" -GSYBE