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Hands-On With the Vivaldi Browser
justthinkit writes: Vivaldi is billing itself as the power user's browser, and Ars went hands-on with it today. They say, "Vivaldi has so many great features, but it can be a little frustrating because it is still very much a technical preview. It's been largely stable during testing (most of the bugs we encountered using the first release are gone in the second), but it's still missing some key features." It appears to have the cred, with Vivaldi's CEO being Jon S. von Tetzchner, the co-founder and former CEO of Opera. Does the thinking behind Vivaldi appeal to you? Do you plan to switch when it's more feature-complete?
OK, I'm leaving.
Why in hell are we going back to 2D windows? Hell, we just go to the point where they were looking decent, and now everyone's going back to that ugly flat-ass look of the 90's?
--- Keep the choice with the user..
All the major browsers are bloated.
..so yeah. I'm still stuck with Opera 12.17 simply because there isn't a single comparable browser and the "new" Opera is not even deserving of that name.
Given that I don't like bloat, no, Vivaldi holds no interest for me. I don't need a swiss army knife to browse the web. I need a stable, fast web browser with support for my chosen extensions.
You like the "infantile interface they refer to. I want control of my browser, Safari gives none, Firefox gives little, so I'm downloading VIvaldi and giving it test run.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Mostly because every page change and tag render and character written to the screen has a half dozen hooks that all have to be checked so that those "chosen extensions" can rewrite the word cloud to the word butt.
Ironically it's the swiss-army-knife gecko-based Seamonkey that's less bloated and faster than 'fast & lightweight' Firefox nowadays.
Exactly, I like a browser that gets outta the way and lets me browse the web. If even an infant can grok your UI, you did a pretty dang good job.
...and hosts file blocking can be too crude, especially against tracking.
don't say that outloud you will summon apk with such speech.
---Saying gnome 3 is better than windows 8 not so much a compliment as it is damning with light praise.
Yeah, imagine not having ad-block on the second technical preview. And it's not as if the browser is being done by the guy who introduced the concept of ad blocking (in Opera, years before any other browser had it). Nope, it's doomed to fail.
Opera 10.10 still does very well.. Now that various large sites have stopped trying to sabotage opera directly, ebay, amazon, others work better than they ever have...
I'm a heavy user tho. I often have 40+ tabs open in a system with less than 4gb ram; as well as other applications... Chrome and Firefox I run in a VM when needed for sites that fail in Opera(Walmart! Lowes, Homedepot)...
The best features of opera few talk about are actually "Site Preferences", Content blocking, and more detailed control. I can disable or enable javascript/animations/whatever on a site by site choice... Does Vivaldi provide this?
Side by side opera uses a tiny fraction of the system resources per-page than chrome/firefox..(firefox v3.6 uses about twice that of opera 10.10, newer version are all much worse(to display/do the same thing I might add).
Initial thoughts. Faster than Safari. Incredibly faster than Firefox, which has become like the retired Athlete that put on 100 pounds in 3 months and can't keep up.
Lets you see what cookies are placed on your machine.
Nice Keyboard Shortcuts Youtube runs well, the browser does a weird expanding thing when going to full screen, but works fine once there (it's no slower to get there, so it was just a surprise, not a knock. Configurable tabs
They have a "mail" sidebar. Not certain if web or standard - not implemented yet.
Notes are kinda cool
Things needed:
Cache location and ability to set size needed, plus ability to run with no cache.
I want to know the high persistence cookies and where they get stored, plus the ability to dump and/or refuse them.
This was all with a 15 minute tour. I'm posting using Vivaldi at the moment. It's definitely in preview form, but pretty interesting.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The problem is that "your chosen extensions" can cause worse bloat than an unused feature in a browser. I'd rather have as much functionality as I can from the developer of the browser itself. Extensions are helpful (particularly for obscure features that no browser developer would bother writing because the user base would be too small) but all to often they break more than they fix.
Basically, the Vivaldi browser is designed to appeal to people who miss Opera 12.x. When Opera moved to Chromium in version 15, it did basically what you are talking about--stripped out nearly every feature aside from browsing itself and it opened up to Chrome extensions. But, many of us found that, in order to add extensions to Opera 15 and later, that met the features we used from 12.x, the browser was a hulking mess--and the extensions for the most part don't work as well as the built in functionality from 12.x. And the whole thing was now slower and riddled with memory leaks due to the extensions.
So, basically, I'm not going to suggest that you must switch to Vivaldi, but personally, I am keeping my eye on the project. I think there is a good user base to be had out there for it.
What I'm most impressed about is that on a per-tab basis, I can turn on No-Image mode via small portrait icon in the lower right corner. What I'm not sure about yet is if it actually stops fetching the images (like old mozilla used to, saving bandwidth and speeding up load times), or just doesn't display them.
However, I've run into quite a few websites that load up fine for me in chrome/firefox/IE but do not load at all and get timeout errors when I try to go to them in vivaldi. Is the vivaldi service proxying webpages through some central service? Or, maybe it's just bugs in an early tech preview.
Don't say that. He might hear you.
Exactly, I like a browser that gets outta the way and lets me browse the web. If even an infant can grok your UI, you did a pretty dang good job.
If all you do is consume Facebook and twitter, it might be okay. Some of us actually need a browser that allows us to do things. And have some idea of what website we're visiting. You might be surpised at what your get out of the way browser is doing.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
oh, you mean lynx... no?
oh, right the other links... still no?
oh, with a GUI, you mean DIllo then.
I do plan to give it a test and may well migrate to it. I am still using Opera 12 for some things that it does better than any other browser I have tried.
Yeah seriously, another closed source web browser for 'power user geeks', oh great, thanks... not!
It's chromium with extra user features and a different interface...
One thing that Mozilla doesn't get (and engineers in general, I ween) is that changing things imposes a cognitive load on the users.
I'm used to Firefox, it does what I want and doesn't require my attention very much. The major reason I don't switch to Chrome or any of the other browsers is cognitive load: I'd have to learn an entire new way of doing things. Different looks, different icons, different behaviour... it would take hours to figure out the new system, many minor "how can I get it to do this..." moments amortized over the next year.
Every time Firefox changes, it's a distraction. Something to notice, figure out, and get around. For me this time it's the offline cache system - no amount of fiddling with the options or about:config will cause the system to save tabs on program exit and load those tabs anew on start - the weather *has* to show yesterday's page on program startup(*).
The previous issue (for me) was putting the window rendering in an external thread, the upshot was that cascading menus took several seconds to render. Click, count to three, then see the bookmarks... move the cursor, count to three, see the selection bar move down. Setting the about:config option to undo this caused Firefox to crash on every boot, but un-setting "use hardware acceleration" fixed that. (My dad is *totally* going to figure that out and not move to Chrome instead.)
All this "OMGWTF we need to be like Chrome!!!" and "OMGWTF we need a chicklet interface" is driving users away from the system. For every change, a number of users say "screw it, I'm moving to $OtherBrowser".
Changing behaviour at all is stupid, doing it once a month is ridiculously stupid. They're thinking in terms of "how can we add more functionality" instead of "how can we attract and keep users".
Pro tip: adding complexity to every little feature does not necessarily make your software more popular.
(*) To be fair, I've only tried 6 of the 64 possible combinations of options that might affect this (in Options->Privacy and about:config). It might be a simple fix, I just need to uncover the right combination of options to do it.
I dunno about bloat, but after reading through the article I just don't see anything I'd need. I never liked mouse gestures, for example, and I don't need more keyboard shortcuts, I mostly just use ctrl+n, ctrl+w, ctrl+r and ctrl+s in Firefox and that's it. I also have no need to insert notes into websites or have an integrated e-mail client; I have separate programs for that if/when I need it. It just doesn't seem to offer anything for me.
Take a look at these low color icon beauties.
The art professors I am sure who teach this UI stuff to future designers are drooling already.
Hey it beats adding leather to the addressbook in skuemorphic design right? You all whined and complained. Well you got it.
http://saveie6.com/
It's not just eye-candy, 3D effects can convey info. For example, having buttons look 3D helps to visually distinguish them from other boxy things. Same with tabs that cast shadows. Such cues are generally good (if done right).
Why not give people a choice in the OS? Have "flat", "3D", and maybe "Jewel" for those who really do want eye-candy.
Table-ized A.I.
I was a big Opera fan back in the day, but have moved on to Firefox since. Mozilla would have to disappear entirely for me to switch to yet another proprietory Webkit/Blink browser.
I'd rather have as much functionality as I can from the developer of the browser itself. Extensions are helpful (particularly for obscure features that no browser developer would bother writing because the user base would be too small) but all to often they break more than they fix.
The obvious rebuttal is that features should be moved into official extensions. There is NO REASON WHATOSEVER why default Firefox should have debugging tools. The whole goddamn point of Firefox is that it is a platform, there should be no benefit to building any functionality in as opposed to adding it as an extension.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Others have described Vivaldi as Chromium with a different UI, which could have been a good thing, but alas their implementation brings with it new problems. From TFA:
It's a sign of the times that bad things are being portrayed as good.
Unfortunately Vivaldi's UI implementation means that it will always be slower than Chromium. It will always look worse too, because so-called "Web UIs" take us many decades backwards in human interface usability. Virtually every web app today has an UI that is far worse ergonomically and sylistically than the average primitive application on an Amiga in the 1980's.
That's not the way forward.
The whole reason Firefox exists is because a group broke off and built it to remove the feature bloat in Mozilla/Netscape.
Officially-built/supported plugins would be the ideal way to solve this. Use internal devs who know the app inside and out, but serve it as an optional extension rather than an always-available feature requiring more memory to keep running.
I'm out of my mind right now, but feel free to leave a message.....
For all Four Seasons!
Any insufficiently advanced magic is indistinguishable from technology.
I mean yes, it's a browser for "friends", and friends won't try to steal each other's password, but would it kill them to actually encrypt locally stored credentials?
~/.config/vivaldi/Default/Login Data
Plain text for such storage is kinda silly.
https://vivaldi.net/forum/private-browsing/1405-passwords-are-unencrypted
https://github.com/mortenoir/vivaldi-stealer
Hyperom.com
I wonder how they plan to make profit from a browser.
I only see a "thing" with an extremely ugly UI.
I don't get it. What is wrong with software where a "tab" in a window looks like a tab, and not like "something".
I'm tired of "searching" on a UI for stuff. We are using "visual" interfaces so you get "visually" a clue how to interact with the software.
E.g. it is plain distracting that on Safari /. now has "animated buttons" for "preview" and "submit". WTF. Who comes to the stupid idea that this is an "improvement"?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
...going to be hard to make anyone give a shit. ESPECIALLY web devs who don't want yet another browser that does something slightly different.
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
... and one has already been done:
https://vivaldi.net/forum/all/...
Content blocking is included as native. AdBlock can be added as an extension:
https://vivaldi.net/forum/viva...
You like the "infantile interface they refer to. I want control of my browser, Safari gives none, Firefox gives little, so I'm downloading VIvaldi and giving it test run.
What kind of control are you looking for that Firefox doesn't give you? I am genuinely curious.
Aging virgin neckbeard tech geek detected.
One can only grin and say learn by yourself.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Ah yes, the ever popular nebulous description of "I need to do things."
From your other posts we can see that that means "watch Youtube in fullscreen," which, I admit, is not something that I can do in my inferior infantile browser.
My my, I test out a browser, and that becomes what I do?
Why now, perhaps a person testing out a browser might just put it through it's paces?
You get a -1 for jumping to really bad conclusions. If Facebook and twitter define the core of your being, a pastime so important that you have to jump to it's defense if someone is mean to it, perhaps that's telling you something about yourself.
The truly amazing thing is that so many people think that stuff is somehow cool or cutting edge. But hey, don't want to disrespct it
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Interesting browser for those who are fan of the "old" Opera (like me):
Pros:
has a lot of feature the "old" Opera has but not the "new":
-Tab stacking (but they don't work as well than old Opera)
-"trash" (to bring back old tab that you closed in the current session - although it looks like Vivaldi do not work per session so it looks more like just a shortcut to the history)
-separate search and adress bar
-a fucking menu (even if it look weird without a title bar)
-mouse gesture (ok the "new" opera has them too but they're so useful)
Cons:
-no disabling of javascript/plugin
-no per-site preference
-ugly UI, no native look
-no title bar
-still in pretty early state
Interesting but I'll stay on Opera 12.x for now. It's still seem pretty "alpha" and the ugly UI do not make me want to beta test it at all. Feature-wise it seems already better than the "new" opera though.
What things do you need to do that you can't do with, for example, Chrome?
Love sees no species.
Well, I often write a lot of technical emails and need documentation nearby. A browser tab is useful to have the manual that you can read and copy text from and then another tab to write the email.
However, I use emacs [mu4e] and w3 or eww in another buffer. But I can see why for some people an email client and browser would make some sense.
Also many people use webmail, which is similar in that it runs in the browser. With a built-in email client you get something like webmail but good for offline use. That is certainly a feature than many would like.
Also, don't forget Zawinski's Law.
Vivaldi is not yet my default browser, but I expect it to be there when it's ready. Some parts of the interface (especially the mail client) need a bit of work, and yes it still needs stabilization, but it seems to be coming along well.
I have been involved with Opera for over 12 years and Vivaldi for about 6 months. Not certain I'd consider any browser since Opera 12 on my old 1 GB netbook - I don't see Opera 27 or Vivaldi useful in such low RAM, which is unfortunate. On a better system, both are good browsers.
Looks to me like Opera are now copying Vivaldi - many of the features they are introducing in Opera 29 (finally) are the ones you find in Vivaldi. Good for the users, but they should have been there first.
Opera was the browser with features...but then they kept adding features for no reason other than to add features. Does a web browser really need an IRC client? An integrated bittorrent client? They just went nuts adding crap, evidently because they were bored.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Chrome hides the full title, thereby sometimes missing important information. There's literally NO WAY to see it, without hovering the mouse over the tab. It's a small detail that is very important. Makes me miss the single window/single page days a bit.
Also chrome auto updates are extremely annoying (lost all bookmarks around v10-v15 and had to restored from a six-month old backup).
This hosts file change will disable the automatic updating (but it also blocks the installing of extensions)
127.0.0.1 clients1.google.com
127.0.0.1 clients2.google.com
I have tried out Vivaldi and I'm disappointed. And not because of the bugs.
I'm disappointed because of the false claims that Vivaldi would be a follow-up to Opera 12.x.
It is not. It does not give me the features, the power, the freedom to counter the formatting and decoration and publicity shit of so many web pages - starting with the big ones. Starting with Slashdot, for example. I need a weapon against the styling idiots. Opera 12.x is such a weapon, Vivaldi is not, it is simply conformistic.
The whole reason Firefox exists is because a group broke off and built it to remove the feature bloat in Mozilla/Netscape.
The 'feature bloat' that they removed was sharing a XUL / XPCOM runtime with the mail client and other apps. If you only ran the web browser, Firefox was lighter, but if you also used the mail client then Firefox and Thunderbird were heavier between them than the old Mozilla suite. The main reason that I switched back in the day was that the browser was very crashy and I'd lose in-progress emails when the browser crashed: moving the mail client to a separate process fixed this.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
Desired feature for any browser, failing that a plugin: Something that really restricts the information the browser sends to the server, to prevent fingerprinting. There are UI switchers and the like, but I have yet to find one that just bloody stops the browser from sending identifying information.
A website that isn't trying to be bleeding edge has no need to know my OS, my browser version, what plugins I have installed, what fonts are on my system, or indeed anything at all about my system and setup. Send me standards-compliant HTML and CSS, and let my browser worry about the representation.
It seems to me that this should be a standard setting, right next to "prohibit 3rd party cookies". Why isn't it available in (afaik) any browser at all?
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
What does gender and ethnicity have to do with ability as a programmer/designer?
Not a sentence!
Same here, I tested this Vivaldi browser on Linux recently. It's just another Chrome / Chromium clone made to look similar to Opera. Even in Linux it has ugly Windows 8 decorations. On some sites this browser caches the whole page before it shows you anything, seems very slow. Chrome is a good browser, Firefox is a good browser, and I don't see any point in creating another Chromium based browser. The reason the original Opera was successful was because it was 1.4 MB and would fit on a floppy. They also had the option to move the location bar or tabs to bottom. In Vivaldi, you can only move the tabs to bottom. Nothing like the old Opera and looks more like the new IE with those window decorations. The only good features is a button to not load images, but I'm not sure if it's not loading images or using css to just hide them. If you follow trends, you will never get anything done.
Given that I don't like bloat, no, Vivaldi holds no interest for me. I don't need a swiss army knife to browse the web. I need a stable, fast web browser with support for my chosen extensions.
Er.. Swedish Army Knife... :-) And.. if I had been a little bit more attentive, I would have caught on to the "Vivaldi" : "Opera" connection. And then not bothered to read the article. Hate Opera.
The best part of Opera was always its UI. If you didn't care for it back then, you won't find anything interesting in Vivaldi today. But if you want things like 1/2 to flip between tabs, or single-click to disable images for a given tab, then it delivers.
Vivaldi certainly looks and feels good. The ascetic design alone appeals to me and means a lot when you have to work something as much as we do a browser. Chrome and Firefox have lost their appeal to me. I use Firefox for general browsing and use Chrome for applications. Chrome is crap-shoot whether I am going to be able to access some sites/applications because of their security model. For a week or two I will be able to access Manage Engine (hosted) fine but then for a month straight I get a message complaining about the certificate and it will not display the page (the protocol acronym escapes me right now).
First thing I notice about Vivaldi though: I right click a link and open ion a new tab and the new tab is brought into focus...I'm a power user, I am opening that to read LATER!!
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
"Use internal devs who know the app inside and out"
Not a realistic option. Devs move every year or two.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Windows 8 (the tiles UI) is by far the best UI available these days. Microsoft hit the nail on the head with their new design. From the first day I used a Windows Phone it flowed perfectly and was very easy to use without losing any power and I found myself missing it after moving to an S5. Anyone who thinks the new IE interface or Microsoft's tiles UI is ugly or less of a UI than the alternatives is just a hater. Something about the cleanliness makes me feel like I have more power for some reason. However, Microsoft did abandon accessibility with thier new UI and I wonder why thye do not have a high contrast theme for Office 365--that is very annoying to me and a show stopper for people with bad eyes.
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
Ever heard of Foxit?
I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
The article doesn't seem to mention it and I can't find it at www.vivaldi.com - does anyone know what licence it's being distributed with?
Alright, so we got the thesis (Windows XP Fisher-Price UI and rotating dials you have to drag with your mouse); and we got the antithesis (return to Windows/286). Can we please have the synthesis now?
And your HOSTS solution still can't block inline spam, such as every single post you make, something your competitors most certainly can do.
I'm all for diversity, and I hope you're joking, as posts like yours will be co-opted by the frothing-at-the-mouth-I've-got-mine-fuck-you folks who don't realise just how lucky they've been with the genes they were dealt, as it's pure nonsense.
Good to know.