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Elon Musk Pledges To End "Range Anxiety" For Tesla Model S
An anonymous reader writes: Elon Musk has used his Twitter account to announce a press conference on Thursday which he claims will end "range anxiety" for Tesla's Model S sedan. Whatever change they're making will be implemented through an over-the-air software update to the cars, affecting the entire fleet. Range anxiety is the term for a fear that your vehicle won't have enough fuel/charge to reach its destination. It's a common reason for people to avoid buying electric cars, given the much smaller infrastructure build-out compared to gas stations. If Tesla is improving the Model S's range through a software update, then it likely involves optimizations to the battery and to the ways in which power is used. Tesla has also talked about developing a feature called "torque sleep," which puts one of the drive units to sleep while not needed. They say it can wake up and begin delivering torque again "so fast that the driver can't perceive it."
.. range. For example, more charging stations and/or a better locator (perhaps with a partnership with a nationwide chain of stores or two), better range calculation, a service to have charging trucks come out to you to you should you run out of charge (maybe even heading to the point where you would run out of charge before it even happens so that there's no wait), or all sorts of other possibilities. There's no guarantee that it actually means more range.
Of course, it could mean that.
"TAMS shouldn't be destroyed. They should just tag us before releasing us into the wild." -- Maeglin
It's called the internal combustion engine. I'm more interested in getting something more like War Emergency Power that the planes had in WWII, than I am getting an extra 20 miles in range that I don't need for my daily commute.
It's called a horse.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
In order to stop drivers from micromanaging their ranges, is just to let a user know how likely is he to run out of juice, right off the bat when he starts his journey. A simple voice request from the car speech synthesizer, asking for a city, a street, or something not very specific which can be used for broad calculations, and then let the user know: "You might have not enough battery to go/come back home"/"You can make a round trip 8 times to that destination"/"You might run out of juice but there's a supercharger nearby, would you like me to reserve a spot for you at hh:mm AM/PM?"
"Tesla press conf at 9am on Thurs. About to end range anxiety ... via OTA software update. Affects entire Model S fleet."
drive you to a Tesla garage to have your battery replaced with a new one.
It's called a horse.
See there's a not often remembered problem with horses and population density.
Shit. Yes, that's the problem, not just me being rude.
Before the invention of the horseless carriage London was suffering greatly from a horse-shit re-distribution issue, the plan always was to load the shit onto barges and ship it downstream to Kent (that Kent is know as "The Garden of England" is a not unrelated fact), but there were serious issues with the collection of all the turds and their loading onto the barges.
So whilst there's many great benefits from using beasts of burden (you can always eat your ride if it breaks down) they are not a universal panacea.
foo
better products at 4x the price (and profitability remains a mystery.)
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
This
an over-the-air software update [...] affecting the entire fleet
Yeah. That worked really well for the twelve colonies in Battlestar Galactica.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Sounds like all hype to me.
They mentioned that it's for the entire Model S fleet, most of which does not have dual motors so "torque sleep" may not be the answer. My hope is they eek out an extra 50 miles to a full charge and recommend 100% charging all the time (they currently recommend 90% charge most of the time and only to use 100% for long trips).
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
See subject: Do better than Mr. Musk then BIG talker gl4ss (while you hide behind your b.s. "internet logon" on THIS account of yours, & other sockpuppets you used to downmod my post, obviously - which DOES go on here like mad too), ok?
APK
P.S.=> After all - I don't SEE any auto company (or anything else for that matter) from you... apk
Then Tesla will deploy a pickup truck with a generator in the back to recharge your Model S while you're driving.
There is also the significant danger of turd burglars who may ruin your attempts to fertilize your garden.
He could well be offering to mod all cars with aluminum air batterys as part of his high speed swap stations. A section of the battery pack would be replaced with
you can always eat your ride if it breaks down
And I thought they smelled bad on the outside...
The computer could display a list of reachable charging stations and for each one, how many extra miles would be left in the battery if you drove to it.
This would not help initially with the unexpected, like a traffic jamb, but no doubt the estimator would get smarter over time.
Id be curious to see exactly how much of this 'range anxiety' is a users genuine sensation of anxiety in proportion to the new technology, versus manufactured fear from the media and pundits. Jeremy Clarkson from the BBC's top gear has done everything in his power, for example, to cast a very negative light on even the most powerful hybrid and electric vehicles.
that having been said, yes, vehicles have a definitive range. The same holds true for automobiles in that if you lead-foot it to work every day, you wont get the "advertised" mileage at all. If youre gingerly with the pedal and work to embrace things like hypermiling though, youll garner significantly higher gas mileage. The only thing different about 'electric' is the higher torque curve in most cases, the noise level, and the emissions depending on the fuel source of your local power plants and sometimes the transmission. The car still functions like any normal car, meaning that if you run your AC constantly in the summer you can also expect poor mileage. Mileage in winter will also decrease, just as in petrol automobiles because things like the Mass Airflow and temperature sensors will run the engine in 'worst case' mode to warm the engine quickly, thus burning more fuel.
Good people go to bed earlier.
First of all, "Range Anxiety" is a registered trademark of General Motors. I hope Elon doesn't get in trouble for using it without GM's permission!
Most people who actually own electric cars experience very little range anxiety. Far more common is "range anxiety anxiety": the fear that if you got an electric car, you might experience range anxiety.
Also prevalent among car makers is "range anxiety anxiety anxiety": the fear that, if you made an electric car, range anxiety anxiety might prevent people from buying it.
Remember folks, we have nothing to fear but. . . fear itself!
It's called a horse.
See there's a not often remembered problem with horses and population density.
Shit. Yes, that's the problem, not just me being rude.
Exactly. It's also the reason some US east coast cities, such as New York, have high stoops on their homes; it elevate 2015-03-16eh entrance above the piles of horse manure on the street. Cars were seen as a non-polluting alternative to horses and an answer to grid lock; as well as safer since getting run over by a horse was a not uncommon occurrence.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
But there are other ways too, have spare battery packs that can be towed along available through tow truck operators. Or towable gensets to be rented on demand from U-Haul like operators or through tow trucks operators...
At some point gas car rental companies should move in to grab a piece of the action. If they provide subscription based car rentals (20$ a month, for one day a month, accumulate up to 24 days ) more people will switch to electric cars. Imagine, one could use a low cost high reliability electric car for regular day to day usage, and check out a pick up truck to pick an appliance or a station wagon for the road trip. If electric cars with limited range becomes more popular, the rental companies stand to get lots of business for their gas car fleet. Rental companies should pitch this model to electric car makers to package two year subscription to sweeten the deal and introduce users into this mode of thinking.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Because those who claim range anxiety want to have a "reason" for them thinking electric cars won't work. And this is the best they've got. They're not going to let go of it.
Isn't "torque sleep" a manoeuvre for stealing the covers?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
What an amazing technology...they run on 100% renewable resources, and their waste products are biodegradable.
We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
Cars were seen as a non-polluting alternative to horses and an answer to grid lock; as well as safer since getting run over by a horse was a not uncommon occurrence.
This. People dont realize how much pollution/problems/rangers exist with horses because 99.999% of people never use them. It's just like people and diseases vaccinations have nearly wiped out.
Further with all the care horses require, modern feed, medical care, large open spaces, they actually do have a carbon cost. Due to the insane footprint of creating, transporting, and preparing food the human CO2 footprint is pretty large - so big that jogging/running is approximately the same CO2 output as driving a hybrid. The meat you almost need to eat if you excercise a lot is the most to blame.
You have all missed the point. I see electric cars as a step forward in technology. GP instead claimed the internal combustion engine as being "better". So I went a step further and claimed the horse (another technological step backwards) as being even better. Please spare us all the reasons why horses are less than ideal.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Full electrics pollute more than efficient gas in 17%-25% of America while efficient diesel pollute less then electrics in 50% of America due to the electricity being produced by fossil fuels. China is much worse and India is far worse. Yes in the future electrics will be a cleaner solution but today saying electrics are the panacea of all problems with driving and CO2 is disingenuous.
"Elon Musk ends range anxiety for penises - Film at 11."
Harrison's Postulate - "For every action there is an equal and opposite criticism"
jogging/running is approximately the same CO2 output as driving a hybrid
I don't think you're factoring in the reduced medical care that people who exercise require. This results in a decreased demand for healthcare goods and services, lower resource consumption and specifically consumption of the fossil fuels used to create the plastics most medical devices are made from nowadays due to their throwaway nature, and the energy consumed by the medical staff going to/from work, home visits, etc. Also, as far as consuming calories for exercising, the way most people obtain them is through eating carbs, not meat. Take a look at the horses you are referring to - they eat grain.
Before the invention of the horseless carriage London was suffering greatly from a horse-shit re-distribution issue,
This is the typically-given reason for all department stores being designed with the perfume counter in front of the door. Supposedly it helped cover up the stench of all the "horse pollution" coming from the street.
Due to the insane footprint of creating, transporting, and preparing food the human CO2 footprint is pretty large - so big that jogging/running is approximately the same CO2 output as driving a hybrid.
That's true, but also disengenuous. The thing is as anyone who has spent time checking energy burned, running uses destressingly few additional calories. The key there is additional: you need 2000 calories per day just to keep your metabolic processes operating. So while the rate of energy consumption running might be comparable to a car, you'd still use a substantial fraction of that even if you were still.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
Yeah, but ya gotta feed them as well. And the horseshit problem's one that needs to be properly addressed.
Yes, but there are a relative few number of fossil-fuel-burning power plants compared to fossil-fuel-burning automobiles, and once the electric car is built, it can be charged from electricity produced from any power plant, not simply a fossil-fuel plant. That means that the fossil-fuel plants can be replaced over time as they reach end-of-life or when they no longer meet emissions standards.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
True but if you eat meat, especially beef, it's much worse. Further i did say lots of exercise - when I was active id easily eat 400-6000 calories a day. When I'm lazy, like for the last 5 years, i only eat 2500 or so. Those results are pretty common. Most people dont think and don't want to realize that traditional forms of transportation, like walking, are almost as bad (in come cases worse) than driving.
Oh, they didn't miss the point. The problem with the current EV's are multitudious just like the previous "solutions". (I'm off to gore some sacred cows now...)
The battery manufacture, recycling and/or disposal is a more toxic form of pollution than the previous "solutions".
The source of power, at least until we ditch the idiot notions about Thorium fueled nuclear power, is one of being more polluting (even the unreliable (yes) "green" power "solutions" pollute worse than Coal does...just not where you are. As such, any EV is as removed from "green" as Coal and the "green" wind and solar are. Coal's big reason for existence is that it's cleaner than the current alternatives (yes) and is reliable as opposed to the so-called "green" solutions in play right now.
Ultimately, they're not an improvement- it's a sloppily done shifting of the problem around. Could they be an improvement? Yes. With something like the recent ultracapacitor tech improvements, if it succeeds in being commercializeable, would remove the batteries from the equation. If you move to Thorium for most of your electric power with hydroelectric being the remainder, you end up with something relatively green as a power source for everything.
At that moment, and not before, do you have an improvement over the modern IC engines which actually emit less than the coal fired plants, the manufacture of the "green" solutions for electric power require to accomplish a move to all EV for personal transport.
Should we do better than we're doing? Yes. Is an EV in the current state of affairs "better"? Nope. Not even close.
They intend to brick every Tesla. You won't be worrying about the range anymore because that car is never going anywhere ever again.
this?
"Evolve recumbent trike folds up in seconds, fits in trunk of smart car"
www.gizmag.com/evolve-folding-recumbent-bike/20073/
Software update is software to call it to you when it calculates that you will not be able to make it to your destination.
I mean, as long as we're all speculating I may as well throw in my prognostication.
this signature has been removed due to a DMCA takedown notice
In a pure EV, Range Anxiety is a huge problem because obviously if you run out of power it will leave you stranded. Even if you could find an outlet to plug it into, it will take a significant amount of time to recharge especially if it is a low wattage 120v outlet. This could happen due to neglecting to charge up, incorrectly estimating range which is easy to do considering it varies depending on weather / driving conditions or in emergency situations. It's a problem because this means you need to plan for almost all your trips instead of the freedom a car is suppose to represent.
This is one of the major reasons why I went with a Chevy Volt, it's basically an EV but when you run out of battery, you have the safety net of using gas. It's a very good safety net as the Volt performs as well on gas with a flat battery as pure battery only modes. You will never hear of any Volt owners stressing over range anxiety but some will try hard to try to maximize their battery use to save gas. In recent studies, it's been shown that Volt owners are one of the few who are willing to risk pushing the battery use right to empty because they can. Most EV owners tend to only use half because it's too risky to run out of power on a trip.
I don't see how a software update could really fix this issue. Maybe there's a way to make the Telsa more efficient but that only gives you more range, it doesn't eliminate range anxiety. Or they design the car to outright lie to the user about how much range is left by severely underestimating.
Entertaining idea, but probably not practical. Why not just pull into a station and refill? In-flight refueling is necessary as a solution to a lot of problems, most of which cars don't have. There is just very little reason doing this would be better than pulling into a gas station
He has an absolute real genius for stirring up interest.
And he's got me. I'd love to get a used, dual-motor Model 3 in 2020. Seriously.
for range anxiety? VW Passat TDI. 690 miles before you have to hunt up a diesel pump.
More likely lack of easily available hot water. People did not wash themselves or clothes very often before the advent of in home hot water. Unwashed people smell bad.
The past was putrid.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
jogging/running is approximately the same CO2 output as driving a hybrid
I don't think you're factoring in the reduced medical care that people who exercise require. This results in a decreased demand for healthcare goods and services, lower resource consumption and specifically consumption of the fossil fuels used to create the plastics most medical devices are made from nowadays due to their throwaway nature, and the energy consumed by the medical staff going to/from work, home visits, etc. Also, as far as consuming calories for exercising, the way most people obtain them is through eating carbs, not meat. Take a look at the horses you are referring to - they eat grain.
Holy cow lol! I mentioned jogging/running. Have you seen the injury rate? You ruin your knees and lower extremities so badly it's only two notches down from American football, boxing, or rugby players. Yes for a few years medical costs 'may' be lower. In the long run those people will ruin their bodies actually requiring more care. I myself messed up my knees and can't run or jog as eh short distances myself. I can still use elliptical trainers or bicycles, but it has pushed me to stop exercising nearly as much. Ur. Isn't ruins your body long term unless you are genetically and traditionally very lucky.
Was trying more for a play on the old rivalry about Navy refueling vs Air Force refueling, along with a dig/reference to Tesla owners position in relation to the manufacturer.
Too obscure or complicated for /.?
The small subgroup of middle age, mid life crises men, who bought the model S as some form of maintaining their sexual prowess only to be overcome with 'range anxiety'.
And here I thought the model S purchase was about assuaging their guilt over their incredibly large and expensive carbon foot print that their rich lives had.
Where is all the "bigger the foot the bigger the... " logic here?
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Yes, but there are a relative few number of fossil-fuel-burning power plants compared to fossil-fuel-burning automobiles, and once the electric car is built, it can be charged from electricity produced from any power plant, not simply a fossil-fuel plant. That means that the fossil-fuel plants can be replaced over time as they reach end-of-life or when they no longer meet emissions standards.
New power plants take decades to plan, build and come online. Minimum 10 years in the USA. Very small solar and wind can go faster but make little impact since they are little. I live in a region where electrics get 35mpg and there are no plans on upgrades of any significance. If you buy a car now in a region like that, and don't move, you just paid double to pollute the same over the entire life of the vehicle.
Oh, they didn't miss the point. The problem with the current EV's are multitudious just like the previous "solutions". (I'm off to gore some sacred cows now...)
The battery manufacture, recycling and/or disposal is a more toxic form of pollution than the previous "solutions".
The source of power, at least until we ditch the idiot notions about Thorium fueled nuclear power, is one of being more polluting (even the unreliable (yes) "green" power "solutions" pollute worse than Coal does...just not where you are. As such, any EV is as removed from "green" as Coal and the "green" wind and solar are. Coal's big reason for existence is that it's cleaner than the current alternatives (yes) and is reliable as opposed to the so-called "green" solutions in play right now.
Ultimately, they're not an improvement- it's a sloppily done shifting of the problem around. Could they be an improvement? Yes. With something like the recent ultracapacitor tech improvements, if it succeeds in being commercializeable, would remove the batteries from the equation. If you move to Thorium for most of your electric power with hydroelectric being the remainder, you end up with something relatively green as a power source for everything.
At that moment, and not before, do you have an improvement over the modern IC engines which actually emit less than the coal fired plants, the manufacture of the "green" solutions for electric power require to accomplish a move to all EV for personal transport.
Should we do better than we're doing? Yes. Is an EV in the current state of affairs "better"? Nope. Not even close.
Yes electrics pollute CO2 per mile the same as efficient gas and diesel for about 80% of the worlds populations. But lithium batteries are relatively non-toxic compared to lead acids, nickel metal hydrides and nickel cadniums. Ultra-capacitors have good power density, more than lithium in some cases, but energy density is 1.2-2 orders of magnitude lower making them useless as a power source. Pseudo capacitors may have some potential, but look like they will fall short of newer battery tech by a large gap even over the next decade.
Electrics have good torque at low speeds, are extremely easy to control precisely, are very efficient, and turn and off in extremely short amounts of time with nearly no efficiency overhead costs. They are superior in many ways. It's just electric fanboys neglect power comes from coal, the increased environmental costs of producing current electrics, and the fact that because they cost so much it would reduce global emissions more to promote efficient diesels instead for the next 10-20 years at least. But they compartmentalize facts and don't listen to reason trying to believe we live in a shiny new future instead of actually reducing emissions in the most econonomical and feasible way now.
When that Model-T was released as the affordable automobile, it was considered an environmental improvement... And it was.
So pick one. Global Warming, or Plague?
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
But that doesn't mean that electric cars pollute more, it means that the U.S.A. has crappy means of generating electricity.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
But that doesn't mean that electric cars pollute more, it means that the U.S.A. has crappy means of generating electricity.
Hiding or disbelieving in entropy/tailpipe location is irrelevant. Electrics pollute quite a bit and the enviornment responds to reality not fanboy pipe dreams. You could run solar powered biofuel in a diesel it dosent mean people who run regular diesel get that benefit.
As a runner who's run over 15000 miles in his career, you are false in your assumption. Runners have a lower rate of arthritis. My response to folks is: What's worse on your knees, running 5 hours a week or carrying 50 extra lbs of body weight all day every day?
" In the analysis, long-distance running was not associated with accelerated incidence or severity of radiographic OA over a mean observation time of 11.7 years."
Also, I know people who run after having knee and ankle reconstruction. If I had a $1 for every "my knees" are bad story, I would be retired. That downside is, some of them are genuine stories, just no way to tell. It always seems when I tell someone I'm a runner, the "my knees" anecdotes come out at an alarming rate. So runner's tend to become desensitized to them. It's much better to just say running isn't my thing.
There is a fine line between humor and troll. I'm not sure who thinks a 500hp 4800 lb sports car is good for the enviornment even if electric. Electrics get 35mpg or so where I live, they don't do much green anything for many people. That said it is a nice sports car, and we all know why many older men buy them.
Too obscure. I had no idea there was any sort of rivalry regarding refueling.
Given all the talk about extending and charging, you'd think he was talking about a Model "P" rather than a Model S. But I hear that's the case for all high-priced toys.
That is all.
it elevate 2015-03-16eh entrance above the piles of horse manure on the street.
*blink*
I think I still understood what you were saying, I just don't understand what happened there.
It ruined mine and I was very careful. I've had two friends who have required surgery from running. The studies I've seen on the internet compare runners typically to people who do not excercise and are likely overweight. So yes maybe it's true then. Compare the knees of cyclists, swimmers, etc... To those of runners and you can see it wears on them badly. Cartilage does not repair itself and heavy repeated impacts wear it out way faster than lower more constant pressure.
From the first post of that thread:
The video linked below was made by a Russian Model S owner. He was traveling to Barnaul, industrial city in the Altai Mountains in Siberia, and found himself with 70 miles of range left, but 90 miles away from the destination (and presumably charging facilities).
The owner negotiated with a trucker to tow him for 20km in order to get some additional range via regeneration
As shown in the video he "charged" at near 60kW - a rate which, as the owner notes in the video, is 20 times faster than charging from a 16A, 220V outlet.
Here is the actual video.
My SO loves watching Shark Tank (which I despise, but try to keep to myself). A telling indicator of how busted the current system is that these millionaires (who apparently just don't *quite* have enough lucre yet) always ask the same question: "Do you have a patent?"
...he plans to end price anxiety
BeauHD. Worst editor since kdawson.
Why is this modded 'troll'? This is yo typical "I disagree with you, so I'll mod you down" usage of mod points. OP is spot on, expensive cars are bought mostly for their conspicuous consumption value.
it elevate 2015-03-16eh entrance above the piles of horse manure on the street.
*blink* I think I still understood what you were saying, I just don't understand what happened there.
Auto correct took a misspelling and decided I was trying to enter a date and I missed it. I really should proofread...
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
The newly updated software will automatically start playing relaxing music when car battery is almost out of juice and charging station is far away.
.
I get ~ 40 mpg on gasoline. There is no range anxiety. Further, the gasoline backup is a more efficient charger for my house (backup) than the Honda Inverter-Charger I also have (always wise to have more than one hot spare). When dumping around 600w into my home via an inverter I put on the 12v system of the Volt, hooked to a forklift charger, the engine runs ~ 90 seconds every ~15 minutes (this is about twice what my house uses "at idle" on average so I get net charge to the house system). There are serious advances in IC engines with all the ECM stuff (variable valve timing and so on, effectively, variable compression ratio - better gas gets you better efficiency).
There is no fscking way this pollutes more than my Honda Ridgeline, which gets at most 17 mpg...give me a break. I'm sorry about your illiquid investments in oil (and the useful idiots their shills have created). It's not my problem. I just go where I want, when I want. It's a great car and fun to drive.
I didn't do it to be green, it just worked out that way - just like I bought a farm and let it grow up to a nature preserve, because I'm too lazy to be a good farmer. Yeah, the furries are cute, but that's not the reason, I like being away from the nut-cases that inhabit most cities.
The key word is "freedom" as in libre - not having to have a job to pay an electric bill. It's amazing how much money you save driving for the cost of tire wear and insurance alone. Things like oil changes - only when it gets old, not ever X thousand miles. Brakes rarely needed, that's what regen buys you. Nothing wears out. Add those costs...or as I did, subtract them, and suddenly the wallet is too fat to sit on.
Disingenuous comparisons with just the CO2 output of fossil fuels are...stupid. Mining, EROEI, deaths, mercury, radiation (check those last two downwind of a coal plant) and so on should be added - you'll pay those costs someday, even if not in the power bill. Cost of right of ways, wire maintenance, plant maintenance - all gone with distributed solar. Yeah, it won't work in the north. Sorry guys. It works fine in Virginia.
Elon...I hope he does well. He's my only living hero. Most people would have retired to a beach after making that much money on PayPal, not "gone all in" for what they believe. Succeed or fail - the man is the man. Even Bob Lutz (always certain, sometimes wrong, as he says) admits that without the push by Elon, the Volt (which I like better, actually) would not have been done. Search on Charlie Rose's website for a very good interview with both of those people...he discourages hardlinks, but it's there.
I take the Volt whenever it isn't a truck-only job (like moving horse poop from my neighbors' hobby horse farms to my garden, or firewood). It's fun to dust off ricky rice-racer on the mountain twisties where I live - they seem to think Fast and Furious2 is how you win a race - it's fun, but nope. There's a vid on my youtube channel, with yes, a visiting GM engineer holding the cam as we hit a 15 mph hairpin at over 60mph and didn't slide to the yellow line. He needed toilet paper immediately thereafter. Lighten up and have some fun!
Why guess when you can know? Measure!
Actually, even if the electricity is generated from coal the pollution is less. I can drive around 30 miles in my model S using the energy used to just refine one gallon of gasoline. Also, as time goes by, the pollution from an EV goes down, especially as the utilities move more and more towards natural gas and renewable energy sources, natural gas now being cheaper than coal for electricity generation. Gasoline and deisel, by comparison, become more and more energy intense to extract and produce, especially when sources like the Alberta tar sands are used.
Also, in countries like China and India their ICE vehicles tend to lack the pollution controls that are present in western countries.
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An electric can go at least 20-30 miles using the energy it takes to refine one gallon of gasoline. The wheel to well energy usage of an electric is far lower than any ICE.
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Apparently even in coal-centric areas, an EV still pollutes less than an ICE.
http://www.afdc.energy.gov/vehicles/electric_emissions.php
Did a google serach for "which states use the most coal" which garnered a list of coal producing states. Took those as an initial test using Wyoming. EV was still better than an ICE. Also tried zip codes for states which do not produce but import large amounts, that was harder as only imports and production seem to be easily found in list form as opposed to who gets the largest % of power from coal plants. Wyoming was a good mark though at 60% of power from coal. EV is still cleaner than ICE.
The only case I could see ICEs being cleaner than coal would be a state that gets >60% of its power from coal, and EV take rate goes very high in the state like 80% of the population and creates enough energy demand for new (coal) plants thus creating a lot of unused baseline power being generated from coal. However, if a state were to massively adopt EV I imagine they would also want to adopt cleaner power plant tech like natural gas, nuclear, or possibly even a renewable mix rather than spin up new coal plants.
If that were the issue, they'd need to spread the perfume racks out evenly throughout the store.
I don't know of any electric that gets 35eMPG. My model S is rated at 89MPGe. A leaf is even better. Also, the model S is not a sports car but a sedan. And we buy them because it beats the hell out of driving a Prius (my previous car). Hell, an electric can go 30 miles using just the energy required to refine a gallon of gasoline.
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Actually it's not 4x the price in the market the model S is in. It's actually fairly comparible and in some cases a bargain when compared to the other luxury cars it's competing against. Right now they have 28% margins on the model S. As for profitability Tesla is doing the right thing and is spending their money on growth which is exactly what they should be doing. They're not an old established company like GM or Ford so they have to spend a lot of money investing in the infrastructure they need for the future (i.e. the gigafactory, R&D for more models, superchargers, more manufacturing capability, etc.) Once they're out of the huge expansion phase then they should be profitable.
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I assure you, the sheer discomfort and fatigue involved is a bigger problem. Even train operators need a break, and they can easily switch drivers while moving, something not so feasible on your average vehicle.
Even events like the 24 hours of Le Mans don't let drivers try that anymore.
How about the energy required to strip mine coal, transport it (sometimes half way around the world), gasify it, burn it, use internal combustion to change it to electricity, step up the voltage, transport the electricity across the grid, step it back down, power the charger used to charge the battery, the losses that occur charging the battery, then the losses the internal resistance and leakage currents of the battery produce then the losses in the inverter/moror drive circuits? electrics pollute more than efficient gas for 80% of the worlds population
You are wrong.
Electric engines have like 98% efficiency, the whole loading of batteries etc. is also in the range of 90%
A combustion engine is in the range of 20% efficiency and perhaps 23 - 25 for diesel.
So bottom line with like 45% efficiency of electric power production an electric car is twice as efficient as an ICE car. _Minimum_
On top of that not all electric power generated by power plants produces CO2 ... so your claims are plain wrong.
I spare myself answers to the rest of your comments, sorry: you are wrong.
And actually you either are an idiot or obviously on the payroll of an anti electric car lobby. No idea.
In case you are not an idiot, I suggest to google about efficiencies ... it is so easy to calculate yourself how much CO2 an electric car produces (*facepalm*)
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I suspect it has more to do with perception than solving the underlying problem. They'll probably pull what cell phone carriers did and just start making any signal 4 bars and then it immediately drops to nothing once you reach the edge of the network. The same will be true of their charge indicator. It will look full at all times until it's right about to die. Voila, no anxiety---just the resulting pain of having ran out of juice.
Sure compare a mileage efficient desist to a standard gass guzzler SUV and you are right. Most of the world including the USA fares poorly compared to efficent gas and diesel. In fact half the USA does worse with electrics than efficient diesels while the majority of china is worse and nearly all of India.
The thing is, most people drive to work each day , shop a little, then leave their car parked doing nothing while working and sleeping.
It is merely the expectations of people that are a problem, not the reality of the situation.
Electrics dont get a mpg equivelant rating. You need to factor in where you live. Tesla S gets around 30 mpge here because everything is coal and natural gas with a little bit of nuclear and a sprinkle of renewables.
It's true the tesla is a nice quality sports car. A 500hp 4800lb vehicle is about as green as a electric SUV. Tesla is a bad choice if you want to save the planet but a good choice if you want a nice sports car.
A free Prozac prescription with every car sold.
Most electrics "refill" overnight, whil(e|st) you're sleeping. Does your ICE based car do that? No. CAN it do that? No.
Depending on the range used -- not the range it's capable of, but the range used -- the EV may never, ever have to be charged outside of the home, overnight. This is actually a very common scenario.
See, these are things you have to take into account: You can't reliably think of an EV the way you think of an ICV. Many of the "problems" people imagine are primarily the domain of the ICV, and apply either not at all, or differently, to an EV, in most common usage scenarios.
Now, me, I need range -- it's 290 miles to the nearest decent city in my state from where I live, and I have to go there more or less regularly (medical reasons... but they also have restaurants, music, shopping... so it's always worthy for me and my SO.) And then when I *get* there, I usually end up driving around quite a bit. So EV's, at least at the moment, are highly problematic for me. But I recognize that I am very much the exception.
I'd *still* like to have an EV for use locally -- then I'd be one of those "charge overnight" people, just taking the ICV out when a long trip is called for, or snow makes the EV unable to get around, with no possible way of using up the EV's range puttering around our little 1-mile across town, or even with a 20 mile (so 40 round trip) jaunt out to the lake, something we also do regularly in the summer months.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
See subject: Sorry Gl4ss - thought you were just another troll (you're not afaik)...
* I felt bad @ "snapping" at you like that...
APK
P.S.=> So, sorry about that: Trolls have been "stirring me up" a bit recently, & I'm about to go "on vacation" (trip) with some 'pressures' associated w/ that too, so take my reply w/ a grain of salt man (nothing to do with you really)... apk
If one looks at the average power generation an EV is more efficient than diesel. Where I live none of my power is generated from diesel and a fair amount comes from renewable sources (wind, geothermal, solar, etc). The percentage of renewable power is growing quickly in my area as well and most new power plants coming online are natural gas since it's cheaper than coal. The percentage of power in the US generated from coal is dropping rapidly.
http://phys.org/news/2013-09-d...
The energy losses in electricity transmission are fairly low (estimated around 7%). The chargers are also fairly efficient (over 90%) and charging Li-Ion batteries is also quite efficient. Similarly, the inverters are also quite efficient (over 90% is typical) and the electric motor are also quite efficient (typically 80% or higher). There is minimal loss in the transmission compared to an ICE vehicle as well since there are only two gears (single speed, just a 9.73:1 gear reduction). At least in my Tesla, losses due to resistance are quite low due to the very short runs between the battery, inverter and motors and very heavy duty power buses. On top of that, a lot of energy is recovered from braking, unlike diesel vehicles.
There are other advantages as well. An EV is extremely smooth and quiet, unlike a diesel. It cost me a fraction the amount it cost per-mile compared to a diesel vehicle as well. My EV gets cleaner as time goes on whereas most vehicles emit more pollution as they age.
Another thing to consider is that many EV owners have also installed solar to help offset their energy use, further reducing CO2 emissions.
For urban delivery trucks electricity makes even more sense.
https://www.fleetio.com/blog/n...
http://www.greencarcongress.co...
This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
See subject: Still evading a fair challenge boy? Yes http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
* :)
APK
P.S.=> You're a "ne'er-do-well" little fool pal, thanks for proving it YET again, lol... apk
No range anxiety for me. I get over 100 miles in ECO mode. It is my daily driver, which I plug into 110v at night when I am at home. I have not used a quick charger port once.
Approximate cost $38 usd per month. That, plus the cost of the (used) vehicle makes it cheper than the cost of gasoline alone for my SUV over five years.
At the old I-95 Hot Shoppes, now rebuilt with a set of superchargers. No problem! Or you could use any of the other seventeen existing superchargers between those points. You could plan your trip with the Tesla on-board planner, or use one of the many websites.
Um, you're actually making a pretty good case that you are suffering from unreasoned anxiety. If you aren't peeing in a bottle to avoid stops, you can do NYC to ATL in a Tesla with no more stops than you'd make in a gas car, and a lot less cost. Only the Tesla is way more fun to drive!
Tankers.....
That's right, trucks that are strategically located and can re-charge your Tesla. And a few strategically located regional helicopters to reach more rural areas. ;-)
Think Tesla AAA, a partnership to help equip tow trucks with rapid recharging systems.
We blow off your concerns because range anxiety IS a phantom issue. Like most humans, you're simply afraid of the unknown. It has been historically proven that fears of the unknown are a useless waste of energy and turn out to be mere paranoia. But you enjoy foot-pedaling your dinosaur car, old man Flintstone.
I've driven 13 hours with no more than refueling breaks (I.e. literally the time it took to refuel with paying at the pump).
I assure you I can envision doing 16 hours without those few 4 minute breaks.
He knows everything about tesla owners charging habits, locations, amp and charge speed. What if he were to add private chargers to the network? There would be many possible ways to organize payments and usage....
It doesn't mean you can spit on the 20% that can use clean electric cars.
Just put few solar panels on your roof if you so worried about made up ratings. That would cost fraction of Tesla's price, at least if you install yourself.
You have a creditable source ?
Thought not.
When hybrids came out I heard the "hybrids pollute more than an SUV" statements which was garbage. Now I'm hearing the same kind of thing said of electric cars. It's like an urban myth or something. Check out the article http://www.ucsusa.org/clean_vehicles/smart-transportation-solutions/advanced-vehicle-technologies/electric-cars/emissions-and-charging-costs-electric-cars.html from the Union of Concerned Scientists, it's a good read. This is a 2012 report but with a 2014 update. To quote, "Electric cars produce lower global warming emissions than the average compact gasoline-powered vehicle."