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RSA Conference Bans "Booth Babes"
netbuzz writes In what may be a first for the technology industry, RSA Conference 2015 next month apparently will be bereft of a long-controversial trade-show attraction: "booth babes." New language in its exhibitor contract, while not using the term 'booth babe," leaves no doubt as to what type of salesmanship RSA wants left out of its event. Says a conference spokeswoman: "We thought this was an important step towards making all security professionals feel comfortable and equally respected during the show." Easier at a venue like RSA; the annual Consumer Electronics Show, not so much.
Whats the use in going now?
Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
It's sad when ugly women are allowed to take jobs away from pretty women simply because they are pretty.
"Booth Babes" are sexist (against both men and women, might I add), and is completely inappropriate.
The real booth babes aren't on the floor at RSA. Go to the vendors' afterparties, or check out around in one of the creepy "party busses" prowling the city during RSA and you'll see where vendors have diverted their "women for hire" budgets.
What, were they wearing nothing but a key-pair? I'd factor that modulus, if you know what I mean.
I mean, I'd steal her keys.
The conclusion was that Booth Babes brings traffic - who don't end up buying, while blocking the people that are actually interested in your product.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
Yes, the cliche says, "Sex sells", but do they actually generate significant sales? I mainly see them being made fun of and criticized.
Booth Bros! Time for shirtless male body builders in front of every booth.
Do you have to put it in such negative terms? That really drains the fun from my visits there ... I mean my friend's visit.
Table-ized A.I.
New Zealand has had a tech expo with similar rules - a company ignoring the rules made news last year, so it's not a first (kind of old news here, really).
How is this a first? The most recent PAX banned booth babes. Also MacWorld did a while ago... I'm pretty sure there are other examples, including lots of smaller technical conferences.
The surprise to me is that an RSA conference even HAD booth babes.
I have mixed feeling about this, it seems discriminatory against the good looking... however it always was kind of pointless, and annoying to have people at a booth that didn't know much about whatever the booth was promoting.
The funny(?) thing is that as this movement ratchets down into conferences everywhere, it will probably mean a rise in the number of women turning to literal, instead of figurative, prostitution to make a living.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The real booth babes aren't on the floor at RSA. Go to the vendors' afterparties, or check out around in one of the creepy "party busses" prowling the city during RSA and you'll see where vendors have diverted their "women for hire" budgets.
I've been to a good number of vendor after parties at RSA, and have not experienced what you imply here.
So in otherwords, nothing is going to change and this is just a feel good measure to make bitter women happy.
"Creepy". Isn't that one of those sexist words that misandrists use to describe male sexuality?
The shaming here is particularly amazing because it seems to be coming from men. Good boy. You're going to make your mistress a good little houseboy. Now get back to work and earn her some money. And leave the masculinity to the "creepy" guys.
Like many of you out there, I never personally experienced these issues (being a white male). And I actually like looking at pretty girls. But at what cost? Folks should recognize that there's a vast literature out there about the impacts of both conscious and unconscious bias in testing, hiring and performance of minorities and women in STEM fields. Things like Booth Babes drive people away. For those of you interested, it is illuminating to read about the weird ways in which the human brain internalizes various societal cues about how women and minorities fit into STEM. Anyone who wants to comment on this topic seriously should at least read through this research:
* Book - "Whistling Vivaldi," written by Claude Steele . Professor Steele isn't the best writer in the world, but the experiments he describes are just fascinating. I challenge anyone to look at his results and not refine their views on these issue. Nice mix of pop-psychology and scientific research. http://www.amazon.com/Whistlin...
* Planet Money Podcast - "When Women Stopped Coding", very much pop-psychology, but thoroughly entertaining and I certainly found some basic truth in their theory. http://www.npr.org/blogs/money...
* Article in the journal "Nature" on what the GRE test actually measures, http://www.nature.com/naturejo... Also see a partial refutation of the initial (which I found less convincing, but I put it out there anyway): http://www.nature.com/nature/j...
* Recent pop-science article citing a meta-analysis about "Genius" in male and female professors (interesting, if somewhat anecdotal): http://www.vox.com/2015/2/12/8...
Reading this research (even at the cursory level pop-science perspective) certainly got me thinking about women (and minorities) in STEM. Personally, it turned me from a skeptic of the type of program Intel is purposing into .... well, I'm not entirely sure. Read the research and I think you'll see what I mean.
Apologies for bringing actual science to what I'm sure will turn into a flame war..... (Complete disclosure: I posed something similar a few weeks ago, but it's such interesting stuff, I posted it again!)
The purpose of 'Booth Babes' is to attract customers, presumably men to the booth. Whether this is an effective strategy is a separate discussion.
It's human nature, and attempts to circumvent it are trivially overcome.
Exhibitors that are currently using this approach can hire the same models and dress them in 'Business-appropriate' attire. The end result is you will still have beautiful women (who may know nothing about the product) staffing a booth and bringing in men.
If anything, this will provide more plausible deniability for more image-conscious men who don't wish to be seen chatting up some lyra- and latex- clad contractor at a booth.
I suppose if that become too troublesome, they can always ban makeup or attractive staffers (of both sexes). Or require that contractors be able to talk knowledgeably about the product.
I'm not criticizing their approach, per se, but I suspect even after these changes there will be continued outrage about the disproportionally attractive women staffing some booths and being paid to be chatty or even flirty.
TFA quotes the RSA test which states: "These guidelines are applicable to all booth staff, regardless of gender"
I wonder why they didn't include Cowboy chaps and codpieces, but maybe that's not a big issue on the floor.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Boycott RSA, my ankles need to breath! ;)
But I can't resist a flashback to a 1980s Wendy's commercial:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Very nice...
Convention News
RSA Conference Fades Away
Lede: RSA conference shutters undertakings after attendance at most recent gathering only attracted gay males with business suit fetishes.
An RSA conference official is quoted as saying "We don't have anything at all against gays, and we know they need security products too, but they only make up a relatively small proportion of the population. We just couldn't pay our bills." Executives at the company were insulated by their golden parachutes, but the rank and file workers were let go with only 4 days official notice and no termination pay. "I knew something was going on when I saw my boss carrying out his golf clubs", one unnamed source told this reporter. Another ex-employee told me she had early warning when by a week before the conference, they only had 21 advance signups, and all of them were from San Francisco. "I'm going to go to work as a stripper" she said. "I can make more and make people happy that way, too. Customer service was a nightmare of unhappiness and depression. I'm glad to be out of there, though I didn't plan it this way."
Vegas Adult Conferences see Record Attendance
Lede: In Las Vegas, the libido rules as adult conferences draw larger and larger crowds.
Sex sells, as any experiencing marketing exec will tell you; and looks matter, as Hollywood demonstrates every day of the year. Beautiful, scantily clad women populate the kiosks at all the adult conferences, and men flock en masse to the show floors in order to get a closer look and take snapshots with them; all the while being well exposed to the products and services being marketed their way. Women, too, crowd the convention room floor as they take careful note of the latest trends in sexuality and sex toys, making sure they maintain their "leg up" over the Birkenstock-wearing, makeup-free adherents of the now critically derailed feminist movement. A great time is clearly had by all. I asked a paired couple of showgoers if they had kids; "Yes, we do" was the answer. I asked where the kids were right them, and got this response: "Since the government deported all the immigrants, we've been hiring ex-programmers and ex-engineers as babysitters. Off-shoring and the H1B visa programs have made picking up a desperate tech person very easy. And they're so much better at caring for the kids. You should see the LEGO creation we came home to yesterday!"
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
They probably have a bigger voice in the matter than all the other men, welcome to this gynocentric society...
Oh yeah? Fine! I'll just have to boycott this year's RSA conference, for taking away my eye candy! Boooooycott! Boooooycott! Boooooycott!
What's that? Have I ever attended one before? Well... no, but what's that got to do with anything?
</snark>
Why is this "easier" at RSA? Sounds like the submitter prefers to have a boner when attending a trade show.
Well, I guess it is a result of selecting differently based on personal preferences, parties and companies that need bought women, vs those who don't.
This weird taboo attitude towards sex confuses me.
Compare it to say, food. How much sense would it make if someone was proudly proclaiming their social and masculine prowess because they flew into a foreign town and then managed to track down a random stranger and after several hours of conversation and work, they convinced this stranger to cook them dinner. Might not even be a good dinner, but by golly they cooked it.
You'd consider them half crazy for not just going to a restaurant and ordering something - that would have probably been more enjoyable. As crazy as it sounds though, we attach that same thought process to sex. A guy who spends 4 hours worth of time and $200 in drinks and dinner to bed some random girl is seen as awesome while a guy who cuts to the chase with a $300 prostitute is shunned.
And the best (or I guess worst) excuse I've heard - from women - as to why prostitution shouldn't be legalized? Because if men had access to sex that easily they'd lose too much power in the relationship. That's the honest to goodness answer I've heard from quite a few of them.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
tomorrow's email from management:
"The good news is removing attractive models from the event is positive progress for our society. The bad new is that we already bought the skimpy outfits for the models, so now you have to wear them."
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
The exceptions at PAX are from people cosplaying representations of game characters. I don't see anything wrong with that. I also don't think it's reasonable to ban people who want to show up in cosplay outfits that may be sexy.
Some people like expressing sexuality, to deny them the ability to do so is just as repressive as any other kind of censorship.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
As everyone dumps CS education in favor of marketing and MBAs. And selling used cars.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
"Creepy". Isn't that one of those sexist words that misandrists use to describe male sexuality?
they aren't misandrists, they're misanthropes. They hate everyone, including themselves.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
How so? Good looking people can still sell from a booth
Good looking people can of course be in any role.
However at least some former booth babes are models that really can't do things other than look good. Since they would not be good in an informational role, they would not be hired.
Like I said, better for attendees in some ways as at least you can talk to someone more about the product. But not as good for the women (and men) now out of work.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Attendance isn't the only thing that's going to be down.
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Well of course the second guy is going to be shunned! That idiot paid $300 for sex alone while the first guy only paid 200$ and had four hours of good time with the girl and also had sex with her!
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Never mind, I'll just read the literature and save myself a plane ride.
Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
You make the assumption that everyone finds the social process of "wooing" someone to be enjoyable. To some its fun - to others its absolute tedious and unenjoyable work. Time is money, and personally 4 hours of time is worth far more than $100.
"People who think they know everything are very annoying to those of us who do."-Mark Twain
Well, I guess it is a result of selecting differently based on personal preferences, parties and companies that need bought women, vs those who don't.
This weird taboo attitude towards sex confuses me.
Compare it to say, food. How much sense would it make if someone was proudly proclaiming their social and masculine prowess because they flew into a foreign town and then managed to track down a random stranger and after several hours of conversation and work, they convinced this stranger to cook them dinner. Might not even be a good dinner, but by golly they cooked it.
You'd consider them half crazy for not just going to a restaurant and ordering something - that would have probably been more enjoyable. As crazy as it sounds though, we attach that same thought process to sex. A guy who spends 4 hours worth of time and $200 in drinks and dinner to bed some random girl is seen as awesome while a guy who cuts to the chase with a $300 prostitute is shunned.
And the best (or I guess worst) excuse I've heard - from women - as to why prostitution shouldn't be legalized? Because if men had access to sex that easily they'd lose too much power in the relationship. That's the honest to goodness answer I've heard from quite a few of them.
As the AC you replied to, I don't think paid sex should be a taboo, I think it should be legal and accepted. And if the only reason you go to a (work related) party is to "bribe" someone into going to bed with you, I agree, you should just pay for it outright and be done with it. I have discussed this with many and never heard anything close to your power argument, that is a very unhealthy relationship to begin with.
Me neither.
The new solution is still sexist.
It's just that this is the kind of sexism that is culturally acceptable at the moment.
A situation where one person can get a job based on a genetic flip of a coin, followed by a genetic role of the dice that lands one with a fashionable appearance - while others are disregarded based on the genetic flip of the coin alone.
You know... When sex of the person is a disqualifying trait on a job application - and it is not a job opening in a strip-bar.
It's the same exact thing that makes "housewife" an acceptable "career choice" for a woman, while the same "career" choice for a man doesn't even have a noun of its own.
It is instead described with pejorative terms ranging from "henpecked" and "timid" to "pussywhipped".
It's culturally acceptable sexism.
No different than a burka - for women who consider that a part of their culture.
Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
There are fewer and fewer places they can seek out employment now!
Now that they're banned from game companies, security companies, electronics companies, where can a dedicated, professional booth babe find employment?
Won't someone please think of the babes?
Babes are people too!
And, much like Comdex of old, another convention that has been a part of CS for years, has to fold due to low attendance.
The RSA convention downfall seems to be 100% attributable to last years rules forbidding Booth Babes. That combined with 2016's proposed "no more free trinkets and TShirts" rules sealed the deal on the once mighty security convention.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Dude, you should like totally check out the links in my signature, you'll become rich*!
* maybe not
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This won't change. Sex sells.
I've decided to stop wasting my time responding to AC trolls/sockpuppets... so if you want a response from me... login.
Not going to support the original position.
But in my experience most 'slut shaming' is done by other women who are unhappy at being undercut in the 'social market for pussy'.
There are a lot of women who get _all_ their power from their boxen. Sitting on gold mines and they know it.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
E3 did this more than ten years ago. Revenues at the conference obviously went through the floor, and they went straight back to the fanboy mosh pit everyone knew and loved from before.
That said, I didn't think the RSA conference would have the same demographic of attendees as E3. Perhaps it makes more sense for them; who knows. At the end of the day, business is business, and this is ultimately about money, not any social statement. They are simply betting that changing their appeal will raise their stature among security experts, attract attendees and media favor, and drive the all-important bottom line.
I dunno, I usually like going to conventions so people can try to sell me things.
Thing is, these 'booth babes' acting as total sex objects *do* sell things...
I'll explain in detail for those who disagree: the ladies grab the typical convention-goer's attention long enough for the sales-critters to suck the guy in and start making the pitch. Our victim is now too damned busy trying to steal glances so that he can lick every inch of her body with his eyeballs. This in turn means that his attention and concentration are now shitty enough to keep cynicism at bay, but still present enough to suck in any buzzword and pretty chart that gets shoved in front of him.
It's a salesman's dream: a horny distracted dimwit with access to purchase order numbers.
Now let's remove the barely-dressed ladies, and what do you get? People that *pay attention* to your sales pitch. People that will start asking hard questions. People who will have their cynic shields on full-power. People that take way more time to work on. Fewer prospects that even bother paying attention to your booth in the first place.
I suspect that after a year or two of "empowerment" (or whatever they want to call it), it won't be attendance that drops, but vendor participation. When vendors see lower sales numbers off the convention, they can no longer credibly justify the expense and time of going.
Me, I couldn't care either way - I usually bring my wife along (at personal expense), so that we can spend off-hours playing tourist and eating at nice places (and she goes off to museums and such during the day). On the other hand, I know exactly what a younger version of me would want... and the evil salesman I keep locked up in my brain knows just how effective sex is to get what he wants by using it.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
How long until burkas are mandatory?
"Creepy". Isn't that one of those sexist words that misandrists use to describe male sexuality?
The shaming here is particularly amazing because it seems to be coming from men. Good boy. You're going to make your mistress a good little houseboy. Now get back to work and earn her some money. And leave the masculinity to the "creepy" guys.
Being sexually aroused by a scantily-clad attractive 23-year old model is perfectly normal for a heterosexual man. Believing that it is acceptable for vendors at a conference to pay models to attend events in the hopes that it will benefit the sales of their totally unrelated product is creepy, because it betrays a total ignorance of acceptable social standards in 2015 relating to interactions between men and women at work.
If nothing else, it is an insult to my professionalism to suggest that I would make important purchasing decisions for my employer with my penis. There was a time when "masculinity" meant putting the concepts of honor and duty above seeking gratification of personal desires. Now it seems to involve moaning about how your employer's vendors are no longer allowed to buy strippers for you.
Wanted: Software engineers with big tits.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
For every one of these conferences that's knuckling under to the neopuritains, there's an opening for a new show that will tell the SJWs to get bent.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Have you never had the experience of hooking up with someone who was just as into it as you were? Have you never felt someone tremble under your touch? That is powerful stuff. If the best analogy you can come up with is having someone cook for you vs going out to eat, you've clearly missed out on the pleasure that can be had through giving someone else pleasure.
A prostitute may put on a good act, but in reality they just want to get it over with so they can turn the next trick or go home for the night. It is NOT at all the same. The BIGGEST turn on as far as I'm concerned is knowing that the person you are with is as filled with lust as you are.
I have this friend. She's blond, six foot, blue eyes, loves wearing five inch heels, and is a bit of an exhibitionist. Gorgeous. Loves dressing up. She also has a BS in computer science and a master's degree in mathematcs. She works conventions as a 'booth babe' for fun. Her stories about tearing into some dork who thinks she's just some dumb blonde are priceless. Shame to spoil her fun.
OK, I'll bite. It's not a weird taboo at all. When a guy wines and dines a woman, then takes her to bed it says something about both of them:
First, there has to be something about the guy that would make him appealing enough. Secondly, the woman has some standards even if they aren't very high. One or the other might even be deluding themselves into thinking it could lead to something more. Maybe it actually will lead to something more. As long as it's not adultery, it's respectable in many circles.
The sex-for-sale transaction says the opposite. The guy can't meet the standard for the more selective women. He has to go find a woman who has commoditized herself, and purchase a commodity from her. She's put herself out there as a public resource. Yuck. Do you know where that's been? Fucking everywhere. Literally.
If this rebuttal doesn't satisfy you then... well... sex isn't dinner. All analogies break down somewhere, and this one breaks down quite easily.
When I went to Winter NAMM back in 2010 or 2011 (can't remember any more), very few booths had "booth babes". There were plenty of women there who knew what they were selling, and some of them dressed up for the occasion while others did not. (Some of the guys wore suits while others wore cutoffs and sandals, too.) Nobody had a problem with this.
That would be my simple defining line. If they know enough to answer questions helpfully, they're legitimate employees no matter how they're dressed or which gender they are. If they don't, then they're hangers-on in some capacity. This is not necessarily a problem, but hangers-on should not be used as eyecandy. If the vendor's kids are milling around, and dressed up in an eye-catching way, this is not a problem. It makes some level of sense that they'd be there, even if they don't really know the business aspect. What should be deemed a problem is hiring random people specifically for the event solely because they're good looking. If they're both good looking and adequately trainable as to be decent sales reps, more power to them.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
They're the ones over in the NSA booth, showing off the cool Enigma machine, and handing out other spook agency trinkets. Sometimes other groups of Feds are there (Homeland Security or whoever), and they don't understand that, unlike the NSA who are evil but cool, they're evil but not cool.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
They were a really clear indicator that the occasional companies that hired them seriously didn't understand their audience, and hadn't brought anybody who knew anything technical to their booth, probably not even any marketing people who understood the product, so you could pretty much skip them, because they were pretty much always useless as well as unprofessional.
On the other hand, you can totally bribe us with chocolate or especially coffee, and we might sit through your silly magician act for a raffle ticket for an iThing as long as there was technical content at your booth, and we'll pick up blinky tchotchkes with your logo on them. The woman I'd rather talk to at your booth is the one who developed the cool product, or can explain it well.
When my company's been at trade shows in the area, about half their staff are booth-running professionals, rather than product-related, from the people who set the thing up and make sure all the marketing content is there to the people who herd customers in, figure out what they're interested in (even if it's just at the buzzword level), bring them over to the right part of the booth or find the right person if they need to, scan your contact info, get the speakers on and off the stage, etc., and about half are either main-office or local people who know something about whatever we're trying to sell. They seem to do a good job on the mechanics of it (I've occasionally ended up as local booth staff), and they're seriously good at respecting the audience.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Typically the booth babe at RSA's booth at the RSA show is Rivest (I don't think I've seen Shamir or Adleman there.) Usually he's been working on something interesting and is having fun showing it off, but he's also there for fanboi value.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
And I thought Enron was creepy. So the trading floor pricks getting laid has spread out into other industries like a rampant venerial disease?
Combining it with work is the problem, especially if it's siphoning off funds that could have gone elsewhere.
She was clad in: a very tight-fitting (and extremely stretched) t-shirt, disco shorts, socks and roller-skates.
Competitors complained and show management advised the exhibitor that:
A) She had to stop roller-skating around the show and
B) She had to add an item of clothing.
Next day, she showed up in the identical outfit more clearly outlined by a set of suspenders!
*** Don't be dull.***
No shorts? What about the sandals, socks pulled up, shorts a t shirt and a huge beard? Banning shorts will exclude me and my fellow unix programmers.
SJW n. One who posts facts.
But, a lot of the slut shaming I see is done by guys. What does that fit into this picture?
White Knighting mostly.
Even non prostitutes participate in the 'social market for pussy'.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Lose the pocket protector, glasses and start swinging. Otherwise, you're not invited.
They're fine as long as they aren't female, apparently. Women need to be protected it seems.
In a word - no. The story should have remained. To delete it over his views on gender equality was totally inappropriate, and downright wrong. We can have opinions and we should have opinions. We shouldn't bash someone like that. Didn't like it when people bashed gay people, don't like it when the gays bash straight people.
We're getting into the thought police. Dangerous place to be. Next thing you know, we won't be any better than the crazy fascist islamists/socialists. Then the killing starts. Of course it goes into irony when those who are killing others get caught and killed also.
Just stop. Stop it now. End censorship.