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Biometrics Are Making Espionage Harder

schwit1 sends this story from Foreign Policy: In the age of iris scans and facial recognition software, biometrics experts like to point out: The eyes don't lie. And that has made tradecraft all the more difficult for U.S. spies. After billions of dollars of investment — largely by the U.S. government — the routine collection and analysis of fingerprints, iris scans, and facial images are helping to ferret out terrorists and immigration fraudsters all over the world. But it has also made it harder for undercover agents to remain anonymous.

Gone are the days of entering a country with a false passport and wearing a wig and a mustache to hide your true identity. Once an iris scan is on record, it becomes nearly impossible to evade detection. 'In the 21st century, you can't do any of that because of biometrics,' said retired Army Lt. Gen. Michael Flynn, the former director of the Defense Intelligence Agency.

104 comments

  1. So that means... by MitchDev · · Score: 0

    ... the whiny bitches in the "Espionage" field in the US aren't using it to protect against non-US spies as well, right?

    1. Re:So that means... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So the contact lenses with the fake iris prints don't work?

    2. Re:So that means... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      So the contact lenses with the fake iris prints don't work?

      No they don't. A real iris pulses slightly as your heart beats. A biometric sensor can detect that.

    3. Re:So that means... by Shinobi · · Score: 2

      In reality, only rarely. Geeks like to claim that security benefits are overstated, but in their criticism, they often overstate the simplicity and ease with which it can be beaten. One item of faith for many geeks is the jelly fingerprint. Yet 15 years ago I encountered fingerprint scanners that would not be fooled by that, and it wasn't exactly cutting edge tech even back then. It used a combination of pattern, temperature, electric conductivity and pressure

    4. Re:So that means... by AchilleTalon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Yeah! Geeks are overrated. However, as a nerd I would say you simply have to target the database instead of trying to confuse the detector. Once you very private characteristics will have been stolen, you will be in deep trouble.

      --
      Achille Talon
      Hop!
    5. Re:So that means... by rogoshen1 · · Score: 2

      no, you just need to get to the guards, the person scannning, or whatever human element is between you and the system. All this techno wizardry is silly. humans are now, and will forever be the weakest link.

    6. Re:So that means... by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      Which is likely exactly what this whole story is really about. It seems a likely bet that the NSA has hacked some key biometric databases and are looking to protect this hack for as long as possible with some military knob running around spreading PR=B$ about how secure biometrics are and how they can not get around it. These asshats would not admit the sky was blue unless they had a specific reason and advantage in doing so, otherwise they would continue try to obfuscate it's existence. So at a bet, a bunch of American criminals are running around the world doing something quite naughty at this time, hiding behind falsified biometric data. I wonder which countries, have started using more biometric security (compromised at it's core) and in which locations. Just like them monitoring and recording all US post and parcels.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
  2. Simon Pheonix by sycodon · · Score: 1
    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  3. More false information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I can guarantee you that they can get around rental and fingerprint scans.
    It is this kind of miss-information, found in this article, that makes people and governments feel secure in their security measures... all while they are being taken advantage of and not knowing it until a decade later.

    1. Re:More false information by ledow · · Score: 1

      I guarantee you that they'd barely need to anyway.

      To my knowledge, nobody on this planet has an official record of my retina, and not of my fingerprint. Maybe "unofficially", as in they scooped it from something without my consent of knowledge, but I've travelled all over the world and never been required to give either.

      I have a current driving licence, a current passport, etc. all the usual gubbins and have not once been required to give either of the above.

      I'm sure someone will tell me some rubbish about facial biometrics and the shape of my chin, etc. but I'm not at all convinced on that either and we all know what simple cosmetics can achieve in the cheapest of TV shows.

      It's not that biometrics aren't capable of doing this. It's that they AREN'T being deployed. I'm sure if I was an illegal who was getting arrested, etc. that there'd be some record of fingerprints somewhere, but I'm also pretty sure that espionage - as such - isn't hindered in the slighest because they tend to steer clear of entering countries illegally (or visibly), getting caught, and getting arrested. Because, biometrics or not, that's just not a useful thing to be doing, given their remit.

    2. Re:More false information by TWX · · Score: 1

      I have a current driving licence, a current passport, etc. all the usual gubbins and have not once been required to give either of the above.

      I'm sure someone will tell me some rubbish about facial biometrics and the shape of my chin, etc. but I'm not at all convinced on that either and we all know what simple cosmetics can achieve in the cheapest of TV shows.

      And I have a beard and need vision correction, so it's unlikely that they could easily pick me out by the shape of my jawline or my eyes as those arguably have changed with differing beard length and style, along with different eyeglasses from time to time.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    3. Re:More false information by grimmjeeper · · Score: 1

      I can guarantee you that they can get around rental and fingerprint scans.
      It is this kind of miss-information, found in this article, that makes people and governments feel secure in their security measures... all while they are being taken advantage of and not knowing it until a decade later.

      I didn't know Avis and Hertz were scanning anything...

    4. Re:More false information by vbraga · · Score: 2

      At least its rental not rectal...

      Maybe that's the reason of that alien anal probing... biometrics!

      --
      English is not my first language. Corrections and suggestions are welcome.
    5. Re:More false information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I take it you haven't been through Amsterdam recently ... http://www.homelandsecuritynew...

    6. Re:More false information by grimmjeeper · · Score: 1

      Can you imagine the reaction when a TSA agent talked about having a great day at work once that new policy was implemented?

    7. Re:More false information by Copid · · Score: 1

      I'm definitely interested in expert input from somebody who confuses iris scans and retinal scans.

      You can "get past" an iris scan with patterned contacts, but patterned contacts are also detectable. If they're enforcing a "no patterend contacts" rule, you're going to have a very hard time going undetected.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    8. Re:More false information by ledow · · Score: 1

      "Passengers must have a biometric passport to use the system."

      No different to the UK gates which have the same facility. But nobody is under any obligation to provide biometrics beyond a photo to get a passport. If you don't have a biometric passport (i.e. almost everybody), you have to use the normal channel and not the e-gate.

      And I tell you precisely how any people I've ever seen walk through the e-gates at London Stansted, Gatwick or Heathrow (considered the world's busiest airport up until very recently) for the many years they've been in place? About 0.01%. The queues in Stansted border control, in particular, can number several thousand people and STILL barely a handful will go through the e-gates and they do so voluntarily.

      Last time I walked through the queue there, someone was trying to get people to use them but acting official and checking if you have an e-passport and getting you to use that queue. I said "No, thanks", and joined the normal queue. By far I was not the only person to do so.

      And, to be honest, I've been through Amsterdam several times. I've never needed to pass through an airport. You can drive across the french, dutch and german borders and not even notice you've done so until your phone goes off to tell you what a text message costs in that country.

    9. Re:More false information by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      You would be wrong. Your jaw is hot, your beard is not. You can no longer fool most facial detection systems.

      --
      Good-bye
    10. Re:More false information by davester666 · · Score: 2

      Oh no you didn't. That beard is hot, particularly the way he doesn't trim it.

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
    11. Re:More false information by murkwood7 · · Score: 1

      I have a current driving licence, a current passport, etc. all the usual gubbins and have not once been required to give either of the above.

      I find this assertion difficult to believe. Not saying it isn't true. Just find it difficult to believe

      I would say that, at the very least, you have not visited the US in the last 10-20 years.

      The EU? I find it _impossible_ to believe they don't collect _some_ biometric information on its citizens. Especially for an identity type document, say a drivers license, or a passport.

      Jus' sayin'

      --
      - X/Y -
    12. Re:More false information by ThatsDrDangerToYou · · Score: 1

      At least that's what the ladies say...

    13. Re:More false information by smaddox · · Score: 1

      You're telling me that its SOP to use high-resolution 10-12 um cutoff wavelength thermal imaging for facial recognition?

      Your tinfoil hat is showing.

    14. Re:More false information by oobayly · · Score: 1

      I used the biometric gates because it used to be a much shorter queue. Last time at Gatwick I was dismayed to see I actually had to queue, and most of my friends now have and use a biometric passport.

      In my experience it's a minority, but nothing like 1 in 10,000. In the past couple of years the queues have gotten a lot busier.

    15. Re:More false information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sorry, look at (unclassified) recent updates to the field. Bearding, glasses, eye obscuring are all solved or mostly solved problems. When you consider that much of the research that is being done _is_ classified it is fairly safe to say that what little issues those items expose to state of the art may be even less to state-of-the-state-art. I mean, there are even methods in public knowledge to take multiple frames of distance video to extract/build retina biomentric detail at an alarming success rate.

         

    16. Re:More false information by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The video systems (not just the bio cameras) used at us borders/passport stands can easily be used to build at least basic retina scan information, even at a distance, utilizing multi frame image enhancement techniques that have been around for a decade. Even if you have not stuck your head into a retna scanning station there is a very good chance your retina patterns are on file.

    17. Re:More false information by ledow · · Score: 1

      I last visited the US in 2008.
      I hold a full UK driving licence and have done since about the same time (I didn't drive until late in life).
      I've held a full UK passport my entire life.

      I freely travelled throughout Europe several times in the past few years and my girlfriend and I go to her home in Italy several times a year.

      ** Neither of us have ever given those biometrics to get the paperwork necessary.**

      As I say, the closest is a photograph taken in a standard photo booth that they say is used for "facial recognition". That was necessary for my last driving licence/passport (shared system) and for her UK driving licence (she has an Italian passport - no biometrics).

      The EU and the UK are - contrary to popular US belief - nowhere near as 1984 as you think we are. I have driven, on one journey, through six countries and only stopped once to buy a sticker for the car to allow motorway travel (paid in cash, at no point had to present ANY documentation to cross borders or use roads whatsoever).

      My brother does not even have the driving licence or passport. He has ABSOLUTELY no photographic or biometric form of identification whatsoever. He opened a bank account with a birth certificate and an employer's letter just recently.

      Sorry to disappoint you, but this is the norm over here in the UK. The last national ID card scheme was SCRAPPED because it was voluntary, so few people signed up and the cards were disabled, the data deleted and the scheme abolished. An official UK government identity scheme.

      You can, of course, talk about how many CCTV cameras we have and how free you are. But that's just ignoring simple facts. Hell, I don't even go out of my way to avoid biometrics, but it's entirely optional and voluntary over here. The same throughout the majority of the EU.

      We pay tax, I'm 100% legitimately British, my girlfriend is Italian with settlement rights in UK due to EU rules, we exist as normal citizens (natural citizen in my case). And I'll state again - THERE ARE NO OFFICIAL RECORDS OF ANY BIOMETRIC FOR ME. Except possibly one photograph that *I* took in a photo booth.

    18. Re:More false information by rioki · · Score: 1

      I don't know about you, but the Texas' DMV has my right thumb print. Granted that one is 15 years old, but more biometrics are collected than you think; especially in the US. Maybe THAT is the problem, US spooks can't operate properly because the US collected key biometrics and now other countries have the data. Other countries don't have the problem, since they did not collect the data in the first place...

  4. Contacts? by mccalli · · Score: 2

    Genuine question as I have no expertise in this whatsoever...would crafted contact lenses help out here?

    1. Re:Contacts? by whistlepig · · Score: 1

      No. They are looking at the pattern of blood vessels on your retina (the part in the back of your eye that detects light; see https://www.eyeboston.com/Publ... ) as sort of a "fingerprint."

    2. Re:Contacts? by ClickOnThis · · Score: 0

      Genuine question as I have no expertise in this whatsoever...would crafted contact lenses help out here?

      Excellent question. I was wondering the same thing.

      I'd assume a technology that could read irises could be designed to detect contact lenses as well, and alert a human screener to their presence.

      Also, I'd assume the contacts could not be entirely opaque for various reasons, so perhaps a technology could still read the irises beneath them?

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    3. Re:Contacts? by Kkloe · · Score: 1

      why not?, you might not be able to pass as someone else, but I guess if you make special contacts with a weight(yes this exist) and small lines in the contacts that reflect the light so the combination of the contacts + your natural blood vessels in the retina could make a pattern of its own, and if you belong to a spy-organisation you could probably pass as a fake\made up person

      or maybe have special contacts that doesnt pass any light from behind them but reflects what you want and be able to pass as someone else

    4. Re:Contacts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Contact lenses that make use of fourier transform holography could probably do the trick.

    5. Re:Contacts? by vux984 · · Score: 1

      or maybe have special contacts that doesnt pass any light from behind them but reflects what you want and be able to pass as someone else

      Uh... no.

      A rigid non-moving pattern, either complete, or just a partial overlay would be pretty trivially detectable by equipment programmed to look for it. (or monitored by a human being).

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      The iris is much more alive and dynamic than a fingerprint. That said, sure, I guess an iris scanner, made by the lowest bidder, with no eye towards security despite being a security device could fail spectacularly; and be just as happy with a random marble or contact lens as an actual iris.

    6. Re:Contacts? by Copid · · Score: 1

      Most iris scanning equipment doesn't attempt to detect patterned lenses. It is, however, possible to detect them.

      As for retinal scans, I don't know of any places where they're in general use and I'm not familiar enough with the failure modes to know whether contacts would affect them.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    7. Re:Contacts? by Copid · · Score: 1

      Most patterned contacts are printed with arrays of dots and are easy to detect. They also don't move as the iris expands and contracts, which is a dead giveaway.

      --
      An interesting anagram of "BANACH TARSKI" is "BANACH TARSKI BANACH TARSKI"
    8. Re:Contacts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why are you assuming that contacts are all rigid and non-moving? Do you think it is impossible to create contacts with characteristics that can fool a known algorithm? Sometimes, it's worth trying to think like a determined adversary so you don't get stuck making assumptions based on the design parameters of a system which is what you seem to be doing here.

    9. Re:Contacts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So use a high-end 3D printer to print a contact lens with built in blood-vessel analogs and a few piezo elements to make them pulse. If you want to get fancy you can make it constrict in the presence of bright light, too.

      A smart enough detector could still tell the difference (for one, a contact is on top of the cornea rather than deep to it), but nobody is making them that smart yet.

    10. Re:Contacts? by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Easy fix - McDonalds diet. High blood pressure kinks those blood vessels to the point where it's a major change obvious to anyone, so likely to mess up a match with an earlier scan.
      I'm not seriously suggesting it just pointing out a flaw of biometrics due to people's bodies changing over time. Also that creepy movie plot point of taking someone's eye to fool the scanner isn't going to work without a heart pumping blood through it.

  5. "immigration fraudsters" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As opposed to all the known felons that our government has our border control catch and releasing?

  6. Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by mi · · Score: 2, Informative

    routine collection and analysis of fingerprints, iris scans, and facial images are helping to ferret out terrorists and immigration fraudsters [emphasis mine] all over the world

    You don't say...

    Gone are the days of entering a country with a false passport and wearing a wig and a mustache to hide your true identity.

    Nonsense! James O'Keefe has crossed the border masquarading as Osama bin Laden. And thousands of serious "undocumented Americans" do that without even any attempts to disguise themselves — and do not encounter much molestation neither during nor after the act.

    TFA tells us, the technology to fight it is there. Now we just need the will to use it — instead we currently have a will not to.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by DarrinJWard · · Score: 0

      this all seems perfectly normal to evil people like darrin ward. everyone should be scanned everywhere, and should use my services so i can install viruses on their computers. i am evil.

      --
      Please use SEOChat.com and ChatButton.com so i can install viruses on your users' computers
    2. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by ohnocitizen · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Daily Caller? James O'Keefe? Not the most reliable sources. Also: immigration fraud is different from sneaking across the border: (http://www.ag.ny.gov/feature/immigration-services-fraud). These are the people who prey on immigrants, not the immigrants themselves.

    3. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by Montezumaa · · Score: 0

      The two ironies, the last being a rather massive one, is: 1.) US law enforcement isn't a part, in any fucking way, the US Military. 2.) US law enforcement has a legal and US Constitutional requirement to follow and respect US law and the US Constitution. As an important attachment to that requirement, law enforcement in the United States is required to disregard any illegal "orders", which is exactly what I was taught during education, and when I entered into the law enforcement field.

      In short, Obama has "lost" his goddamned mind. US law enforcement should seek charges against his ass, of which, it seems, he really wants to happen. If not, then why is he acting like such an asshole?

      Hey, outside of the US Military, which organizations have the most organized manpower and firepower/ordinance? Yeah, law enforcement. That isn't a good organization(in part, or as a whole) to threaten, especially when that asshole(Obama) doesn't have authority over the vast majority of the people inside the various law enforcement organizations(outside movies, TV shows, and other entertainment avenues, which all have it wrong, the US Government has no authority over state and local law enforcement. Local and state law enforcement is governed by the states alone, with the local governments sharing(at best) said authority with their respective state, along with major state oversight of local law enforcement. Hence the reason law enforcement certification and training is a state-level matter, or tightly governed by each state, and why each state, legally, is a "sovereign" entities, equal with the US.).

    4. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...Not the most reliable sources....

      You are being too kind. These sources count as provable false propaganda. Citing these is evidence of a political axe to grind with absolutely no facts to back it up.

    5. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      borders? pffft! In the US, just come in from the South, no border, no interest from the US government in stopping you. Heck, they'll even fly your family in for free after you walk across!

    6. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by quantaman · · Score: 1

      Nonsense! James O'Keefe has crossed the border masquarading as Osama bin Laden.

      Translation: I base my world view on the authority of self-promoters who's career is based on deceiving people.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    7. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by mi · · Score: 1

      Daily Caller? James O'Keefe? Not the most reliable sources.

      Are you claiming, the cited facts are not, actually, facts?

      That O'Keefe has not, in fact, crossed the Southern border dressed like Osama bin Laden? Because if you aren't disputing the facts themselves, your quibbling over sources is a pathetic grasping at straws.

      Also: immigration fraud is different from sneaking across the border

      Yes, it is different in the sense, that there are other ways to commit immigration fraud. But every single person, who sneaks across the border illegally is a fraudster.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    8. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by mi · · Score: 1

      Translation: I base my world view

      This is not about my (deeply flawed) person. Ad hominem much?

      self-promoters who's career is based on deceiving people

      What's wrong with that? Police detectives deceive people all the time too, for just one example — it is part of their job.

      Same goes for intelligence and counter-intelligence agencies. Deceiving your enemy is a good thing...

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    9. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by quantaman · · Score: 1

      Translation: I base my world view

      This is not about my (deeply flawed) person. Ad hominem much?

      It's not Ad hominem to attack the integrity of your source if your evidence is based on their integrity.

      self-promoters who's career is based on deceiving people

      What's wrong with that? Police detectives deceive people all the time too, for just one example — it is part of their job.

      Same goes for intelligence and counter-intelligence agencies. Deceiving your enemy is a good thing...

      Are you O'Keefe's enemy? Because he's lying to you.

      Good detectives lie to criminals, good spies lie to enemy operatives. Bad detectives lie to courts, bad spies lie to your bosses.

      James O'Keefe lies with his video, this has been shown repeatedly.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    10. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by mi · · Score: 1

      It's not Ad hominem to attack the integrity of your source

      Except your attack was on me. You claimed, I base my world view on James O'Keefe.

      James O'Keefe lies with his video, this has been shown repeatedly.

      This was a fantastic opportunity for you to provide a link, where the allegation, that O'Keefe crossed the border dressed like bin Laden, is convincingly disputed.

      In other words, citations needed.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    11. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by quantaman · · Score: 0

      It's not Ad hominem to attack the integrity of your source

      Except your attack was on me. You claimed, I base my world view on James O'Keefe.

      Call it a bit of hyperbole. The point there wasn't to disprove your argument, I didn't even mention it. The point was to point out that James O'Keefe is an absolutely ridiculous person to cite.

      James O'Keefe lies with his video, this has been shown repeatedly.

      This was a fantastic opportunity for you to provide a link, where the allegation, that O'Keefe crossed the border dressed like bin Laden, is convincingly disputed.

      In other words, citations needed.

      Perhaps if he were still credible. Either way the video and the implied argument are irrelevant. No one claims there aren't a lot of places where you can't just walk across the border, stupid mask or not, it's about the ability to insinuate yourself into secure positions that they're talking about.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    12. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by mi · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if he were still credible.

      Translation: I make bombastic claims out of the wrong orifice and weasel out, when asked for substantiation.

      No one claims there aren't a lot of places where you can't just walk across the border

      Well, when you ridiculed O'Keefe's claim, that it is possible, and called him a liar (without any evidence) you seemed to imply, that his claim was false, and it is not, in fact, possible to "just walk across the border". I mean, why would you call a claim "a lie", if you agree with it?

      But you are already demonstrated to be a weasel, so I don't really care, what you still have to say. Hop along.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    13. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you, as an American citizen, prepared to submit to invasive biometric scanning, intensive interrogation and lengthy paperwork every time you enter the country from either Canada or Mexico? Have your irises scanned and fingerprints taken?

      Once again, that's every time? Even if you've only been across the border for half an hour, you're willing to go through a 90-minute examination and interrogation to get back in?

      If your answer is "no", then you don't have the will to use that technology either.

    14. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by quantaman · · Score: 1

      Perhaps if he were still credible.

      Translation: I make bombastic claims out of the wrong orifice and weasel out, when asked for substantiation.

      Read his Wikipedia page. He has a well documented history of misleading people with his videos. To be honest I only glanced at portions of the video as I really can't stand him. As for an actual debunking of whatever claims he made I'd be surprised if many people cared enough to do so anymore because no one takes him seriously.

      No one claims there aren't a lot of places where you can't just walk across the border

      Well, when you ridiculed O'Keefe's claim, that it is possible, and called him a liar (without any evidence) you seemed to imply, that his claim was false, and it is not, in fact, possible to "just walk across the border". I mean, why would you call a claim "a lie", if you agree with it?

      But you are already demonstrated to be a weasel, so I don't really care, what you still have to say. Hop along.

      I never said or meant to say that O'Keefe was lying in that specific video, and as for evidence that he's a liar in general some things are simply established fact.

      What I meant to say is exactly what I said, he had zero credibility and he's such a terrible source to use that it reflects very badly on you to use him.

      His video has no evidentiary value, in the time it would take to verify you could find a much better source who could give a proper argument.

      --
      I stole this Sig
    15. Re:Fighting immigration fraudsters? Really? by ohnocitizen · · Score: 1
      O'Keefe's antics are not trustworthy, and they are not journalism. He selectively edits his videos to make whatever point he wanted to.

      In a March 2011 interview with O'Keefe, NPR journalist Bob Garfield described the ACORN scam: "So let's just recap for a moment the ACORN scenario. You lie to get into – the offices. You lie, subsequently, about the lie you told to get into the offices. You edit the pimp shot into the trailer to create the illusion that you were somehow wearing it during your sting. You go on television wearing the same pimp outfit and let interviewers observe, uncorrected, that that’s what you were wearing when you confronted the ACORN employees. If your journalistic technique is the lie, why should we believe anything you have to say?"

      "Yes, it is different in the sense, that there are other ways to commit immigration fraud. But every single person, who sneaks across the border illegally is a fraudster."
      You'd be hard pressed to find a lawyer who agrees with that. Now people who break immigration laws to cross the border can utilize fraud once they are here (false documents, stolen identity, etc). But its like saying everyone who breaks into a home steals a TV set. It happens sometimes, it is made easier by breaking in, but they are not the same thing.

      More importantly you are side stepping my point and arguing semantics. The article is about fighting people who prey on those so desperate to go to another country they will risk anything. So when you quote someone who (ironically) has committed fraud in several senses of the word and try to change the subject, don't expect much trust for what you're selling.

  7. Sorry, what? by gstoddart · · Score: 2, Informative

    Am I somehow supposed to feel bad that due to the extensive tracking by Big Brother of everything that we do that all of a sudden Big Brother is having a hard time of it?

    Boo fucking hoo.

    You assholes created this surveillance society. You don't get to bitch when the same fucking issues we all face suddenly bit you in your own ass.

    That these clowns are now stepping in the pile of shit they helped to create is too fucking bad.

    --
    Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  8. I predict... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

    a future black market in human irises.

    "Hello, Mr. Yakamoto, welcome back to the Gap."

    --
    If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    1. Re:I predict... by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      I predict, you either will or will not someday learn about Occam's Razor. :-)

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  9. OK by koan · · Score: 0

    So the argument Snowden made it harder for the spies is really bullshit.

    Because their own systems have made human spying impossible.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
    1. Re:OK by bobbied · · Score: 1

      So the argument Snowden made it harder for the spies is really bullshit.

      Because their own systems have made human spying impossible.

      Oh come on. You are misrepresenting what they are saying. Human spying isn't impossible, it's just HARDER to do without getting noticed or having to do things in more difficult ways. Gone are the days you could just hop a commercial plane, use an alternate passport and pass though another country with little risk of being ID'ed. Now, you are more and more likely to be caught though biometrics if you are a spy.

      You can still get into and out of countries unnoticed, it's just a lot harder to bypass all the checkpoints and immigration controls that you cannot risk passing though anymore. You have to take more of a smuggling approach which is harder, but not impossible.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    2. Re: OK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can walk across most borders easily if you're willing to hike through remote territory. There are always ways across the border. The problem comes when border check databases get cross referenced with other data (hotel registration, traffic stop) and your name is not on the list.

    3. Re:OK by dbIII · · Score: 1

      Gone are the days you could just hop a commercial plane, use an alternate passport and pass though another country with little risk of being ID'ed

      Mossad are alleged to have done exactly that with a group of people involved with an assassination in Dubai a couple of years back. A few countries were a bit annoyed at having their passports faked by that group.

  10. Harder? Are you sure? by Loki_1929 · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Because it sounds like you're placing nearly absolute confidence in a solution where a back-end server storing biometric template data is one compromise away from being used to make all your efforts completely useless. Gone are the days when someone intent on espionage needed a wig and fake mustache; now they can compromise your back-end server, overwrite some template data, and become a whole other person that you firmly believe should be trusted and provided all kinds of privileged access.

    What you've done is come up with a system where the good guys can't change the passwords, but the bad guys can. It's among the dumbest ideas ever.

    --
    -- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
  11. That makes sense by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that espionage has become a pan national effort were distrusting parties "agree" to spy on behalf on each other.
    Actually faking an iris or a face is not that hard for a government that also has the option to let its diplomats do the border crossing.

    Fugetives and organised crime will have to fly less or pay more!

  12. GOOD! by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2

    the world needs fewer spies and more honest people.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:GOOD! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ha ha... you think the will of the state of is so easily frustrated? In practical terms, it just means shifting resources around to favor blackmail/bribery, surveillance, black ops, and hacking. Say... what country made the chips in your laptop, phone, and vehicle?

  13. On the other hand by Monoman · · Score: 1

    There are people that are pushing for systems to be accessible from just about anywhere (read Internet). We see countless headlines about systems (government and corp) getting hacked and most of us on /. realize the systems never should have been remotely accessible in the first place. Spies will be hackers or visa versa .. however you want to look at it.

    --
    Keep the Classic Slashdot.
  14. Since when are spies registerd as such? by houghi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    You are a bad country if you were doing it that way. Most spies are not registerd as such. They are people who have a job in an other country and do the spying on the side.

    Crossing borders is not an issue. And if they are recognised as spies, they are burned and will not be used again.

    FYI, James Bond is fiction.

    And even if they would want to get into a country, they can. Look at people illegaly smuggeling others and succeed. Now imagine that you somehow make those illegal people legal.

    And they could even give you a new passport. Happens all the time. New passport, ID and what not.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    1. Re:Since when are spies registerd as such? by Mycroft-X · · Score: 1

      You are a bad country if you were doing it that way. Most spies are not registerd as such. They are people who have a job in an other country and do the spying on the side.

      But they do use multiple identities. Grab a new ID and hop a border to a scientific conference, ditch the ID after you get back, and Mr. Bond the consular attache never left the country. Except that Mr. Bond and Dr. Science both happen to have the same...eyeballs? Hmm...

    2. Re:Since when are spies registerd as such? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Spies generally work for this "enemy" state. Intelligence officers, however, may just have a job in an embassy... the point is that traditionally they may use many aliases, in many countries, as a way to make it more difficult to determine who they are. This is not possible anymore, because biometrics will say that these two aliases are the same person. Most of the time this is not an issue, but it may prevent the most experienced people from coming to help out at some critical moment.

      As usual for Slashdot, this is old news... http://www.wired.com/2012/04/cia-spies-biometric-tech/

    3. Re:Since when are spies registerd as such? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FYI, James Bond is fiction.

      True, but Bond wasn't really a spy, he was a government assassin who did investigation to get the right target. He rarely tried to be stealthy, his usual technique was to kick over the hornet's nest and see who scrambled where. That can be done whether you clear immigration control at the airport or infiltrate stealthily. Bond usually used the latter except for countries that had some kind of special relationship with Her Majesty's government.

      (In real life, most (full time) spies travel on diplomatic passports as embassy staff, which gets you through a considerable amount of immigration red tape.)

  15. an incredibly pedestrian assumption. by nimbius · · Score: 1

    Gone are the days of entering a country with a false passport and wearing a wig and a mustache to hide your true identity.

    And here are the days when you cross into the United States through our old proxy-war torn neighbours in south and central america, or our drug-war torn border buddy Mexico. Or how about just not coming at all, and hacking from abroad. Most corporate targets will gladly sweep your efforts and activities under the rug for you, as it could have dire consequences for their stock or earnings. Our government on the other hand, the institution we intentionally shut down twice and lost two credit ratings over along with 24 billion dollars, could care less. If youre an $evil_country for us, we'll insist you did it anyway, and if you arent, we'll find a reason to implicate you in a race to divert attention from our massive domestic surveillance program and illegal prison camp in cuba.

    A senior Defense Department official said the policies have changed decisions about who can travel where â" and how often. âoeIt limits your movement,â said the official, who was not authorized to be named in discussing tradecraft and spoke on condition of anonymity.

    Yes, yes it does limit your movement and thats the intention. For Occupy, planned parenthood, tea party, and second amendment protestors to be part of a massive biometric dragnet means they dont get to openly speak out against the government as is their first amendment right. For you to be so frightened to tell the public this as to insist anonymity in a public office is tantamount to treason.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  16. typical bullshit article by Nyder · · Score: 2

    Wow, I can't believe this is even worthy of a post.

    This is bullshit, just someone looking for more money.

    First off the NSA is tapped into everything, they are already spying on all of us.
    Second, the NSA can hack into any computers across the world that is storing the biometric data and change the data.
    Third, you rarely have spies that no one knows about, and honestly, it's easy enough to make those. You can find someone in the twenties/thirties that have never worked for the government in anything, make some fake data about them, and suddenly have a new spy. If you keep going to the military or FBI, or those sort of people for spies then yes, it a lot easier to figure out.
    Fourth, It's election years.

    --
    Be seeing you...
    1. Re:typical bullshit article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, mods? You're idiots.

      1) The question (for the people here) is not the NSA, but others.
      2) You overestimate the superpowers of people you don't know.
      3) Intelligence officers do not become good at what they do overnight.
      4) http://www.wired.com/2012/04/cia-spies-biometric-tech/

    2. Re:typical bullshit article by oodaloop · · Score: 1

      It's clear with your vast background in both NSA's technical capabilities and CIA's clandestine activities, that Gen Flynn should have consulted with you before talking to the media and making a fool of himself.

      --
      Tic-Tac-Toe, Global Thermonuclear War, and relationships all have the same winning move.
    3. Re:typical bullshit article by bobbied · · Score: 1

      First off the NSA is tapped into everything, they are already spying on all of us. Second, the NSA can hack into any computers across the world that is storing the biometric data and change the data. Third, you rarely have spies that no one knows about, and honestly, it's easy enough to make those.Fourth, It's election years.

      First - No the NSA is NOT tapped into everything. Despite the mythology, the NSA is not omnipresent or clairvoyant. Believe it out not, they do have very practical limits both legally (which they apparently push the boundaries of) and the laws of physics (which try as they might, they cannot violate).

      Second - The NSA does not have the ability to just break in and do what they want to any computer system in the world. They may have unparalleled LISTENING ability that makes them a formidable foe, but they don't really have much CONTROL over the equipment they can monitor.

      Third - I'm not going to argue that point. Spies come in all shapes sizes and professions. However, most are associated with diplomatic missions, at least the professional ones who are primarily spies. Most "on the ground" assets are local recruits anyway, where moving around isn't an issue, because they don't.

      Fourth - Well, the Election Season has started a bit early and let us leave it at that.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    4. Re:typical bullshit article by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      legally - oh you poor gullible fool.

      that never stopped us in the 50s, or the 70s, or the 80s, or the 90s.

      why do you think it stops us now?

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    5. Re:typical bullshit article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fifth, one can always attach a bushy piece of Austrian mustaches into the one's iris to confuse the scanners.

    6. Re:typical bullshit article by bobbied · · Score: 1

      legally - oh you poor gullible fool.

      that never stopped us in the 50s, or the 70s, or the 80s, or the 90s.

      why do you think it stops us now?

      From the US prospective, the NSA has legal boundaries in US law. These boundaries do not include foreign or international law which the NSA routinely ignores in it's collection efforts.

      My mention of "legal boundaries" was referring to the effect of US law on the NSA's activities. Yes, they sometimes push the boundaries in US law too, but the NSA is generally pretty careful when they do.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    7. Re:typical bullshit article by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      You keep believing that.

      Those of us who have actually worked on intel collection will keep laughing at you, however.

      Laws?

      Riiiight.

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    8. Re:typical bullshit article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "why do you think it stops us now?"

      because apparently, according to your post, it did in the 60s and the 00s?

    9. Re:typical bullshit article by bobbied · · Score: 1

      One more time... US law? Not easily ignored by the NSA though sometimes they apparently do... People can go to JAIL for doing this, so when they are pushing the boundaries they do so carefully.

      Foreign and international law? The NSA is laughing at most of these and ignoring the rest. When operating on foreign soil the NSA is pretty much it's own authority, especially in international territory.

      If you KNOW that the NSA is violating US law, I suggest you report it though the proper channels because it needs to stop.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    10. Re:typical bullshit article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Remember, the usa president talked about the constitution - "Just A Goddamned Piece Of Paper".
      NSA-NRO-CIA-FBI-FEMA do not think that some "legal boundaries" should or will tie them down.

    11. Re:typical bullshit article by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that's what you tell yourself.

      But neither my father (precursor agency) nor myself (not saying more) would agree with your naive viewpoint.

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    12. Re:typical bullshit article by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      "why do you think it stops us now?"

      because apparently, according to your post, it did in the 60s and the 00s?

      It didn't.

      I just have no personal observations from the 60s. And most people know it didn't stop anything in this century, or if they don't, they're clueless n00bZ.

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    13. Re:typical bullshit article by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      wait, so you have personal observations from the 50s, but not the 60s, but then again in the 70s? Were you just so stoned during the 60s that you don't remember them and then sobered up in the 70s?

    14. Re:typical bullshit article by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      try reading what I said elsewhere. My family has been involved since the founding of the USAF (my grandfather died on the steps of Congress after surviving yellow fever, scarlet fever, and many other things and serving with honor). And one can infer that his son and his grandson have done similar things.

      n00b

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
    15. Re:typical bullshit article by bobbied · · Score: 1

      I'm sure that's what you tell yourself.

      But neither my father (precursor agency) nor myself (not saying more) would agree with your naive viewpoint.

      Then report it though proper channels... Seriously, you have a way to stop this, do it. An no, I'm not saying pull a Snowden and dump classified data into the public. Blow the whistle it is your duty not to mention your moral obligation.

      IMHO - You are just making this up. Nobody who was actually a part of what the NSA does would be posting critical things on Slashdot about breaking the law. You'd either be up to your ears in breaking the law and not want to chance drawing attention to it. No, your just making this up.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    16. Re:typical bullshit article by dbIII · · Score: 1

      After that Star Trek set designer shit and other NSA fuckups your sarcastic "should have consulted with you" is far better advice than you intended. The poster you are ridiculing is likely to be more capable than the bunch of toy soldiers who at the top ranks got there more by nepotism than ability. You are probably more capable than them yourself.

  17. Fake out IRIS and other biometrics? by shadesofgreen · · Score: 1

    Not sure if intelligence agencies can fake out IRIS and other biometric data. Shouldn't be that difficult?

  18. Guess they'll have to do it the old-fashioned way. by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 2

    I guess they'll have to do it the old-fashioned way, then: sleep with someone who knows the secrets.

  19. Except by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Except that biometrics is the data thought to be from an iris scan, not from a validation per se. Oh, that's why we should keep such data secret. It's secret so it's truly yours.

  20. In other words by ThatsNotPudding · · Score: 1

    US spies can now change their irises.

    1. Re:In other words by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

      Actually, we have bio-powered iris covering biofilms that do near field pictoral displays (patents at UW)

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      -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  21. You sad deluded fools by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    You have no idea as to where the real vulnerabilities are, do you?

    Sad, sad, pitiful fools.

    Biometrics won't save you, physical measures won't do you no good
    When the humint fails, ain't no place that's safe.

    Now go back and learn proper tradecraft.

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  22. evading detection in the modern world by roc97007 · · Score: 1

    > Once an iris scan is on record, it becomes nearly impossible to evade detection.

    Um, not really, just the techniques change. When you have a "foolproof" method of identity, (in this case where you compare some biometric data stored in a database somewhere,) the tendency is to believe the method of identity, without once considering that everything is predicated on the database being correct.

    And so, instead of wearing a wig and affecting a different accent and different posture and style of walk and all of those things Sherlock Holmes used to do when he went into disguise, you don't have to change any feature of yourself at all -- you just have to change the database. This is especially easy when your organization *owns* the data, but isn't impossible even if the imposter you're trying to field needs credentials in someone else's database.

    C'mon, we're geeks. Several vectors come to mind.

    --
    Oliver's law of assumed responsibility: If you're seen fixing it, you will be blamed for breaking it.
  23. The tech works for everyone. by mr_mischief · · Score: 1

    Nothing magical makes technology work just for the US federal government. If technology exists, others can use it, too. What is so hard about this concept? A better question to ask is why should we trust a government that wants this ability all to itself?

  24. Police, politicians and the wealthy can be tracked by gestalt_n_pepper · · Score: 1

    They can be identified and their locations revealed. You take the good with the bad.

    --
    Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
  25. Re:proper channels by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    You really haven't been paying attention, have you?

    And you know it.

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    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  26. not just spies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not just spies, but also undercover copss and FBI. Nongovernment databases, license plates, iris scans...

  27. fallback by jago25_98 · · Score: 1

    I agree. I always think the opposite when a spy opens mouth :D
    Possibly the fight has moved the playing field.
    Somebody, somewhere has no eyes. Old people have worn out fingerprints. Because of this there's a way round it. And, of course the battle just moves to compromising the databases.

    In a few years time we might find out more. Shame not to know now bit with spooks you just got to get used to curbing your curiousity all the time.

  28. Re:proper channels by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am afraid you are not the one really listening. The NSA as gained "god" like status and magical powers by those looking to be critical of the agency in general and it's specific actions. Common sense has been abandoned by the professional protesters who refuse to address the technology required to spy on everyone in the world and seem to think the NSA possesses the unlimited manpower to analyze every bit of data passing over the internet. And NSA operations in foreign countries are not constrained by the US Constitution. Every foreign intelligence service in the world operates the same way. Embassies are were you will find intelligence operators and local asset handlers because they can always use diplomatic immunity if caught in an embarrassing situation. The only thing the host countries can do is demand the diplomat-intelligence officer leave the country. And let me know when a single US citizen on US sovereign territory is detained or otherwise harmed by the actions of the NSA. And that doesn't include those accused of breaking long standing US laws by dumping classified information about US foreign intelligence operations. If Snowden had stuck with releasing only information about domestic programs he could be back in the US a free man by using the foreign related information as leverage to drop any pending charges. The US would have taken that deal in a second. Instead he decided to be a rock star fugitive living in the Russia under constant surveillance by the FSB. He also has to worry about the US and Russia coming to an arrangement where the Russian government hands him over for something they want or need from the US government. US: Would you like to see some of the financial sanctions against a few of your wealthy oligarchs go away?
    Russia: What would you want in return?
    US: The extradition of one of our citizens.
    Russia: You want to pick him up or should we deliver him?.