Google Helps Homeless Street Vendors Get Paid By Cashless Consumers

An anonymous reader writes Starting today Seattle pedestrians can no longer pat their pockets and claim to have no cash when offered a copy of the ironically-named Real Change weekly newspaper by a homeless street vendor. Google has spent two years working with the Real Change organization to develop a barcode-scanning app which lets passers-by purchase a digital edition with their mobile phones. Google's Meghan Casserly believes the Real Change app — available on Android and iOs — represents the first of its kind in North America.

Comments

Parody, right?

[sycodon]

This isn't from the Onion?

Re:Parody, right?

[93 Escort Wagon]

This isn't from the Onion?

Every work day, when I get off the Sounder train at King Street and am walking over towards the bus tunnel, there's a guy hawking those "Real Change" tabloids. I've never seen anyone actually take one, though - and I didn't realize they weren't free!

Re:Parody, right?

[gl4ss]

as free as books from hare krishnas I suppose?

actually, real change has a price of 2$ printed on it, so it's less bullshit than hare krishnas "free books"(hare krishna books are "free" as in that they will not pay taxes on it but will insist on donation 1-5x the price of the book).

Re:Parody, right?

[TheRealHocusLocus]

This isn't from the Onion?

No it's a tell-all article announcing a PARADYNE shift.
No silly, that's the trademarked name of a corporation. You mean PARADIGM shift.
What a crappy deal. 'Paradigm' looks like it would rhyme with 'jism' or 'pigeon'.
Whacha gonna do, it's Englitch. How do you pronounce GHOTI?
Okay so about the homeless people. What are they doing?
They're throwing open their trench-coats to reveal... a unique, affiliate-tagged barcode.
So no money actually changes hands, it winds up in an account somewhere.
Precisely. And it is going to change EVERYTHING.
Isn't this a lot like the Amazon Affiliate program? Where the purchase is tagged to the vendor?
No, no, no! This is a Google project!
Okay... but Amazon's involves just navigating to a specific URLright? So does this?
No it's different. You have to download an 'Real Change app' for it to work.
This is a good thing? Making it device-specific and having to install an app?
Yes. And besides, it is a Google project.
To acquire only this specific publication?
Yes. And besides, it is a Google project.
Walk me through this. What is this magazine about?
Real Change is an award-winning weekly newspaper that provides immediate employment opportunity and takes action for economic, social, and racial justice.
Sounds interesting. Any porn or cheat codes? Or maybe something about the Roman Empire? Romans ROCK.
Real Change is an award-winning weekly newspaper that provides immediate employment opportunity and takes action for economic, social, and racial justice.
I get it. So... why can't a homeless person be recommending books and presenting Amazon-tagged URLs to scan?
I wish you would dispense with the Amazon stuff. This is a Google Project.
I presume Real Change is ready to cash out every day, whereas Amazon makes you jump through bank and gub'mint hoops that homeless people cannot get through.
True.
Is this because Real Change is dealing out small amounts of cash to undocumented people, and has not yet attracted the attention of the IRS?
I'd rather not discuss that. They might be listening.
So the REAL problem then, that which requires the PARADIGM shift, is that homeless people cannot participate in the economy to the extent that they could use their individual personality, experience and selling skills to promote a wide range of products, such as those sold by Amazon, in a framework in which they earn affiliate money without incurring any risk to the buyer? And just perhaps, some community organization might be willing or able to assist these persons in setting up the accounts, choosing items, printing out books of tagged barcodes, and operating a clearing account so as Amazon deposits the funds they can dispense cash on a regular basis? And maybe convince Amazon to reconcile accounts daily?
No no no! Even if homeless people could get bank accounts it would not work. Amazon does not require an app.
And besides, what you suggest sounds vaguely Communist. I'd have to report you to the IRS.
So it's really about people palpating their silly little phones and app distribution then?
What else is there?

RIP CLASSIC GOOGLE MAPS

[Anonymous Coward]

Just sayin

Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the easiest way to not get harassed by these guys.

Re:Just say "No".

[taustin]

Or just ignore them and walk by without a word. That might piss them off enough to justify calling the cops on them, which at least gets them a warm night and a meal. It's for their own good.

Re:Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

Or the Bum grabs your phone and runs off.

Re:Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

Real Change sellers are actually on the up-and-up. The sellers actually buy the papers from Real Change and then take the profit between that and retail price, and are trained on basic business before they begin selling. The paper requires sellers be clean and sober when selling.

I live in Seattle, and I have never seen a pushy or rude Real Change sellers. They've all been very polite and clearly trying to help themselves. Not your stereotypical panhandlers.

Re:Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

You must live in a nice part of Seattle. I work in the Pioneer Square area, and several of the Real Change sellers in that area and the ID are quite obviously either drunk, high or mentally ill, and pushy to the point of verbal abuse if you try to ignore them.

I do not support Real Change because while it gets the sellers money for a meal and some basic needs, it does not encourage them to go beyond that and get off the street altogether. I want to support organizations that support homeless folks in moving *out* of being homeless, rather than merely making it easier to *be* homeless.

Re:Just say "No".

[mcubed]

I haven't been to Seattle in a while and don't recall seeing a Real Change vendor there, but here in Portland vendors for our local street newspaper, Street Roots rarely harass or even engage passers-by, except for saying hello. They aren't anywhere near as aggressive as people trying to get you to contribute to some charitable org or trying to get you to sign some petition.

I used to do proofreading for Street Roots. They have a really good vendor training and try hard to be ambassadors for people living in poverty or experiencing homelessness. (FYI, not all vendors for these papers are currently homeless, though the vast majority have personal experience with homelessness.) It doesn't do the paper or its constituency any good if people find the vendors annoying or irritating. The best vendors have a lot of repeat customers and cultivate a good relationship with them, just like any business people. Street Roots is also very responsive to problems if they arise.

Re:Just say "No".

[jblues]

Back in '99 I got tired of throwing together yet another web app on crazy schedules, and decided to go busking on the streets of San Francisco for a living. I was hanging out with a feller called Wil Jackson on the corner of Grant & Green. A lot of homeless folks there. I noticed a real sense of community between them - they tried to look out for each other.

It was great fun to wind down and just play tunes for a living. The only problem was, folks in suits would walk past frowning at me (dumb street guy, get a job) A few months later I was back in London, wearing a fine suit and working in the financial district. Fun, challenging work. The only problem was street folks would see me walking past in business attire and frown at me (materialistic suit guy. Get a soul).

Re:Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

Usually the "dumb street guy" doesn't have a job. Not always of course, but usually. And usually, they don't have jobs because they are not competent enough to keep them. Sometimes that is from mental diseases, or sometimes sloth or what-have-you. And it isn't always the case.

But it is usually the case.

Lastly, these street guy's *usually* ask for free money. It is rude to go up to a stranger and say "please give me money for free."

The guys in suits who frowned at you are so accustomed to this treatment from these people that they automatically assume you will do the same. They can't help but frown at you, because, in their everyday experience, interacting with people like you is unpleasant.

Homeless people frown at the men in suits because the men in suits won't give them free money.

Re:Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

Portland homeless are kinda mellow. Seattle homeless are the more aggressive migratory type. But even they are tame compared to Venice beach homeless that will grab you and demand money.

Re:Just say "No".

[taustin]

If I become aware they are selling something, it is because they have approached me on the street. That puts them in the same category as spammers and telemarketers: aggressively annoying.

Re: Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

Or because the men in suits do things that make people homeless, and no, it isn't all creative destruction.

The mortgage foreclosure fraud admitted by Countrywide would probably operate enough homeless shelters to house several times more than those whose homes they stole.

Re:Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

At least they ask questions which can be dismissed easily with "No thanks". A lot of the scammer/marketing salespeople have resorted to using conversation openers like "How has your day been?", which just makes people feel awkward, because their brains had already sent the signal for "No thanks" and they need to try and think of another way of ending the conversation, which makes them pause, stop walking, and stutter.

Then, the tendrils of the carnivorous sales-plant clasp tightly and won't let go easily.

Re:Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, because portland homeless are so close to Portland locals it doesn't seem the situation is desperate. The disparity between rich and poor is what matters, and shockingly [/sarcasm], the city with the motto "where young people go to retire" doesn't have a big difference between "working people" and "homeless".

Much like when I thru-hiked the PCT - it was often discussed if people thought we were homeless or less a home.

Being homeless in seattle has to fucking suck, especially these days. Hard to enjoy it even on a real salary.

Re:Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

They could get a $15 job at a fast food place.

Too soon?

Re:Just say "No".

[gl4ss]

yeah the "facers" are the most annoying.

especially after you realize that they're employed by greenpeace, unicef or whoever the fuck and don't even give a shit about whatever cause they're trying to raise money for.

I used to be approached by such friggin daily walking in Helsinki. I mean, they speak that the roma beggars are a problem but you will encounter MORE "facers" for charities than those. they use same tactics to get your money as the roma too, moral blackmailing etc usual stuff. the only difference is that the roma sit quietly by whilst the facers will try to get you to sign up to give monthly donations. they don't even fucking accept cash, because it's so much better business to get your phone number and monthly automatic donation!

Re:Just say "No".

[skegg]

they need to try and think of another way of ending the conversation

That used to be me, when I was younger. However for several years now:

Salesperson: Hi sir. How are you today?
Me: No thanks. [While I continue walking, without pausing.]

We have plenty of people in Sydney CBD streets trying to hawk something.
Thankfully, I have never found them to be particularly aggressive / persistent.

Re:Just say "No".

[oobayly]

It's a warped works we live in isn't it!

I used to see the same guy selling The Big Issue (I guess it's the UK version of Real Change) when I walked into uni in Islington. Every day I would say "no thank you" and every day he would say "have a nice day mate".

Re:Just say "No".

[TheRealHocusLocus]

At least they ask questions which can be dismissed easily with "No thanks". A lot of the scammer/marketing salespeople have resorted to using conversation openers like "How has your day been?", which just makes people feel awkward, because their brains had already sent the signal for "No thanks" and they need to try and think of another way of ending the conversation, which makes them pause, stop walking, and stutter.

Then, the tendrils of the carnivorous sales-plant clasp tightly and won't let go easily.

Your straightforward explanation with its little twists and turns spiced with bizarre imagery, has sent me into a dream-state and prompts me to launch into a modern-day Chautauqua [Pirsig variant] .

The mind itself is a circus of the mind. The more you think about thinking, the more you know about less and less, like a reactive Java applet discovering that thrown exceptions are no longer an exception to the rule. Interaction with other people can be a series of thrown exceptions, each carrying in a new bit of sensory information and a dollop of performance anxiety. There is a plasticine boundary at introvert and extrovert where the verts clash along a path of missed and misinterpreted signals. Do you ride it like a wave, because you are a skilled extrovert... or...

Do you wait until the desperation for a response forces you to act, withdraw --- creak the rusty iron hopper door shut and open the cogitation valve to chuff steam to drive slow pistons of thought, flywheel gaining, release clutches on belts attached to intricate taffy-twisters and anvil-thumpers and other outlandish devices you have built over the years to try and make 'sense' of the outside world? From this contraption possible answers and actions begin to emerge on a conveyor, like cartoonish misshapen parodies of some finished product. We have to adjust the dials a little. Then you spot it, the first real credible response! But no (Inspector #3 says), it's trite and silly, it gets tossed into the recycle bin. And so on, until the end products begin to resemble credible responses, but no (Inspector #4 says), they do not possess a requisite degree of novelty and cleverness. It's all plain corn chips until the product passes by the Spray-'N-Squirt Gizmo. Like a hall of mirrors it is an endless conveyor with countless Inspectors, and as you perceive the pointlessness of this process a sense of dread takes hols and you finally push the Red Button. Bells clang, the conveyor stops, and this absurd industrial plant in-a-box tosses out the last thing on the conveyor:

"Uhm..."

Dilbert pulls the fire alarm to escape the horror of a so-called 'casual confrontation' after spotting a stranger approaching down a long, narrow hallway.

Imagine if everyone had glowing Sim jewels floating above their heads indicating their emotive state and intentions. It could be the next Google Project. Imagine the horror of such persons if everyone they have ever known has one, and they come face to face with a jewel-less person for the first time.

The First Law of Robotics cannot be circumvented. We can, however, find ways around it by tampering with the definition of humanity. If you ever encounter a robot that says, "Greetings, incidental object of no certain purpose" ... run like hell.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled Slashdot discussion.
To your scattered bodies go.

Re:Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

they don't even fucking accept cash, because it's so much better business to get your phone number and monthly automatic donation!

Well, at least that offers plenty of opportunity for irony. By all means, offer them a small amount of cash. Then you can say $CHARITY probably have enough money for their purposes now - they refused my pocket change! And the next time they approach you "You didn't want my money last time, now your'e definitely not getting any."

Re: Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

You should really take a step back and think about the numbers of Wall Street tycoons and Golden parachute CEOs you are likely to see walking past homeless people.

In all likelihood 99% of those people wearing suits have nothing to do with the activities you described.

Equating suit with "screws people over for a living" is completely stupid.

Re:Just say "No".

[nbauman]

You must live in a nice part of Seattle. I work in the Pioneer Square area, and several of the Real Change sellers in that area and the ID are quite obviously either drunk, high or mentally ill, and pushy to the point of verbal abuse if you try to ignore them.

I do not support Real Change because while it gets the sellers money for a meal and some basic needs, it does not encourage them to go beyond that and get off the street altogether. I want to support organizations that support homeless folks in moving *out* of being homeless, rather than merely making it easier to *be* homeless.

In New York, and several other cities, we found out that the best way to move folks out of being homeless is to give them a home. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Then worry about the other things. It's difficult or impossible for someone to get a job, health care, treatment for drug abuse or mental diseases like schizophrenia, if he doesn't have a stable place to live. The best way to give them homes was to go to court and order the City and State to give them housing. There were provisions in the City and State constitutions that said it was the job of the government to provide for the poor.

In my understanding, the reason homeless people are selling newspapers is that it's a legal way to panhandle. When poor people were selling items on the street, the cops hassled them. There was a lawsuit that ruled that they could sell books on the street, because books and magazines are protected by the First Amendment.

Re:Just say "No".

[Anonymous Coward]

Or "Sorry. I have a blackberry"

Re:Just say "No".

[gsslay]

You are making the mistake of allowing them to dictate the direction of the conversation. The reply for any and all opening questions is "No thanks". Doesn't matter what the question is, doesn't matter if your reply on the surface makes no sense. Your reply is "No thanks (I do not wish to talk with you)" I don't count being this abrupt as rudeness. When you are replying to a devious and manipulative question, or a flat out lie, it's all good.

"Can I interest you in..." (Straight to the point.)
"No thanks."

"How has your day been?" (Hi, I want you to think I'm just being friendly.)
"No thanks."

"Do you want to save money?" (Particularly devious, who's going to say no to that?)
"No thanks."

"I'm doing a survey, I'm not selling.. " (Liar)
"No thanks."

You can add a "goodbye" at the end of any of the above, to suit the situation or taste.

Re:Just say "No".

[WrongMonkey]

Seattle has that program, too, as you can see from your own link. Hasn't put a dent in the overall problem because of the constant in flux of new homeless to the city.

Re:Just say "No".

[taustin]

I disagree. It is rude. But it's in response to rudeness, so I'm OK with that. And if "No thanks" isn't good enough, the followup is "go away and don't talk to me," followed by making a scene if it's in public, to let everyone else know the asshole is inappropriately aggressive. On the phone, just hang up. You don't owe telemarketers even the courtesy of "no thanks."

Re:Just say "No".

[nbauman]

One of the problems is that under the Faircloth Amendment, federal money can't be used to build new public housing, but it can be used to destroy public housing. http://alexisandjesse.tumblr.c...

So as a result we wind up spending $300 a night to put the poor in welfare hotels, when that same money could build ten times as much public housing.

Re:Just say "No".

[cthulhu11]

I mostly see them in front of grocery stores, and at the drive-through exit of at least one Charbux. I've never perceived one to be under any influence, or to be pushy or rude. I suspect the RC folks police them strictly.

Re:Just say "No".

[andymadigan]

There's a similar paper here in San Francisco, Street Sheet.

I really hope Google doesn't decide to help them, I've seen their "vendors" chasing and screaming at people right in the middle of the Castro here.

I've also seen others blocking exits from BART escalators (meaning they're either begging or selling newspapers inside the paid area of the station, the first is illegal and the second requires a license. Street Sheet is an organization that just needs to stop existing, they just give homeless people an excuse to scream at people and threaten them.

Re:Just say "No".

[jblues]

Usually the "dumb street guy" doesn't have a job. Not always of course, but usually. And usually, they don't have jobs because they are not competent enough to keep them. Sometimes that is from mental diseases, or sometimes sloth or what-have-you. And it isn't always the case.

But it is usually the case.

Lastly, these street guy's *usually* ask for free money. It is rude to go up to a stranger and say "please give me money for free."

The guys in suits who frowned at you are so accustomed to this treatment from these people that they automatically assume you will do the same. They can't help but frown at you, because, in their everyday experience, interacting with people like you is unpleasant.

Homeless people frown at the men in suits because the men in suits won't give them free money.

Ah, but that was the point of the story. I found myself in the amusing and enlightening situation where in a short span of time I experienced two sides of the coin, and both were fraught with prejudice.

In the first case, folks seemed quick to draw conclusions about what they saw as someone asking for a free ride. In an ideal world it would've been fair to consider that I'd made plenty of contributions. Financially, I'd paid a good amount of tax in a few years (a few years worth, still young at the time). Meanwhile I was taking down-time for important life experience that would help future contribution, and doing useful community work with disadvantaged folks.

Down the track on the other side of the coin, folks saw a self-absorbed, materialistic, unappreciative up-start with no community spirit. The kind of person who'd put a penny in the pot for the poor (and I mean that in terms of nation building / human development) with their right hand, while taking a thousand more with the left.

In both cases it would've been more fair to judge the individual, and not the outward appearance

Oh, man!

[wantobe]

Now people will have to act like adults and simply say "no, thank you."

Re:Oh, man!

[Etherwalk]

Now people will have to act like adults and simply say "no, thank you."

Normally you simply don't engage. There is a little more engagement than in NYC, but also a higher homeless population per capita, I think.

Re:Oh, man!

[Anonymous Coward]

wonder how long it will be until they don't buy the excuse that you dont have a phone.. or dont have a smartphone?

(me none, gf, only dumbphone)

Re:Oh, man!

[Anonymous Coward]

Now people will have to act like adults and simply say "no, thank you."

Normally you simply don't engage. There is a little more engagement than in NYC, but also a higher homeless population per capita, I think.

It doesn't hurt to treat people like human beings and say no, sorry, it's just not as easy to do.

Re:Oh, man!

[Anonymous Coward]

On at least 10 occasions in the last 15 years or so making eye contact and saying "no thank you" has resulted in me getting verbally abused by the vendor. I live in San Francisco so it may be a bit different here.

Re:Oh, man!

[Anonymous Coward]

If you spent any time in areas with aggressive panhandlers, you'd know that's the worst thing you can do. It's not that I don't have compassion for the homeless' plight, it's that they don't see me as human. If they'd respect my no and move on, I'd respect them enough to give it.

Re:Oh, man!

[Anonymous Coward]

As others have said, engaging can get you into more aggressive insults than just ignoring. Someone in Seattle was begging for money saying he was 'hungry'. This was outside of a Safeway. I bought an extra apple and some kind of bar. I gave it to him on the way out. Discreetly. I didn't ask for a thank you or any acknowledgement. What happened was that a few seconds later he threw the apple into my back as hard as he could and told me to 'go fuck myself.' Nice.

Re:Oh, man!

[msauve]

My brother-in-law has the best line for dealing with them - "My mom told me not to talk to strangers."

Re:Oh, man!

[russotto]

Yeah, the NYC version of this app just blinks FUCK OFF on the screen and plays a Bronx cheer.

Re:Oh, man!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is the same story everyone else has who offers food to the "hungry". It's funny how nobody has stories of someone accepting the food and saying "thank you". It simply does not happen.

That's why I think it should be legal to feed the homeless. There should be no legal repercussions for giving a "homeless" person on the side of the road a 10# bag of potatoes. Even if you happen to be going 50 MPH at the time of the donation, the law should recognize that as a contribution, not some sort of assault.

Re:Oh, man!

[praxis]

It's a shame, what happened to you, but that's no reason to start treating *other* people like they are abusers.

Re:Oh, man!

[praxis]

Why would you make an excuse, when you can be honest and say "no, thank you?"

Re: Oh, man!

[Anonymous Coward]

Your heart is in the right place but potatoes are not really a homeless kind of food...let alone ten pounds of them, I own a house and I don't use that many potatoes to buy them 10 lbs at a time.

So...

[TWX]

...now we either have to come up with another excuse or else tell the person something along the lines of, "sorry, not interested"?

No one is under any obligation to buy from or to give money to someone panhandling. Given that there are enough actors out there to make one question if any given pandhandler is actually hard-up or not, I don't tend to give out money like that.

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

...now we either have to come up with another excuse or else tell the person something along the lines of, "sorry, not interested"?

No one is under any obligation to buy from or to give money to someone panhandling. Given that there are enough actors out there to make one question if any given pandhandler is actually hard-up or not, I don't tend to give out money like that.

Panhandlers are just doing their job, you shouldn't help them at all. You'll find the same rotation at the same spots every day. Do you think they raffle off the good spots each day to be fair? Go drive by any organization that helps those in need before opening time, there's a hundred that could better use your charity for every one panhandler you run into.

Re: So...

[zurtle]

"sorry, I have a Windows phone."

Re: So...

[Anonymous Coward]

o great. way to go... get him to give you the money instead.

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

Where I live, (Austin), the panhandlers have their spots, and they enforce this at knifepoint. Same people. Then when they decide to leave, their car is stashed a few blocks away. I worked a few blocks from where Leslie (a mayoral candidate) had his brains smashed in by another panhandler at a bridge, so the derelicts are quite territorial.

If I'm parking and downtown, I'll usually keep a dollar or two in a vest pocket (not in the wallet) just so that the local vagrants don't use my car's tires for knife practice.

Austin is like Santa Cruz. Lots of college students who "love" the local vagrants, to the point where a SXSW project was attaching Wi-Fi receivers to local hobos. Of course, they flock to this city in numbers just because they can hit the Arch, Salvation Army, and another feeding center when they choose, then use the bus system as their living room and bathroom at other times since they get free bus passes.

Problem is that the true people in need don't get attention while the guy who has his car hidden a few blocks away is raking in the dough as lines of cars roll down windows to give him stuff.

Re:So...

[Anonymous Coward]

"Sorry, I'm not going to get my phone out of my pocket and hold it out in front of me so you or your accomplice can grab it and run."

Bitcoin in this space years ago

[Anonymous Coward]

Its not like Google is somehow making something new. Bitcoin tipping has been a thing for quite a while now. No Google required.

Why?

[ArmoredDragon]

Apparently it's trivial to make an upper middle class income doing that:

http://www.straightdope.com/co...

So I ask, why does anybody give to them anyways? Many of them make more money than the people who give them money.

Re:Why?

[TWX]

People are not smart.

There are panhandlers at the freeway offramp lights around here, usually because they can stand on the left side of traffic near the driver's side. If you consider that your average light takes about 90 seconds to cycle, there are about forty times an hour when cars are sitting there. If one driver, every other light gives $2, then the panhandler can make $40/hr while sitting at the light. The advantage the panhandler has is that since the potential givers completely flush and replace every 90 seconds, there are new marks constantly, and it's unlikely that any would see anyone else giving money, so they may feel obligated to be the one to do so.

I figured out it was a borderline scam when I saw the bicycle that the panhandler had sitting off in the bushes. It cost more than the car I was driving.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Most people don't give them money where I am, partly because there are so many homeless people. People quite regularly buy them meals though, because that's just more sane and classy in all respects.

Re:Why?

[Chalnoth]

If that was true, they'd get a place to live.

But because of people like you, and a political system that refuses to provide sufficient aid to those in need, they are unable to find indoor places to sleep much of the time.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. Many of them DO HAVE APARTMENTS. It is a scam.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

You are making the assumption that they don't have a place to live without any evidence.

You are making the assumption that if they didn't have a place to live and could make a middle class income panhandling that they would choose to spend the money on having a place to live.

Political systems don't pay for things, people do. I assume you are refusing to provide sufficient aid to even one person who is in need (that's an assumption, you can dispel it by stating that you personally give enough money to one individual in need sufficient to provide them with a place to live).

Re:Why?

[ArmoredDragon]

Like this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Re:Why?

[Chalnoth]

What is your evidence for this?

Re:Why?

[Chalnoth]

Yeah, that's not even remotely common.

Re:Why?

[Chalnoth]

So, wait, you seriously think there are people out there who would voluntarily choose to sleep outside, often without any protection from the elements?

The political system is made up of people.

Re:Why?

[Shakrai]

Maybe they should have paid attention in kindergarten?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Real Change is how the junkies get the cash to pay for their smack.

If you don't believe it, try people-watching at the park by Pike Place Market.
Or wander around near the junkie dorms at Stewart and Denny.

You can't go to either place without being hit up to buy Real Change by two or three different junkies in the first minute.

Re:Why?

[Fnord666]

So, wait, you seriously think there are people out there who would voluntarily choose to sleep outside, often without any protection from the elements?

Isn't that just called camping?

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

When they walk to their Mercedes at the end of their shift, it's obvious they don't live in the car.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

The first sentence of your post is refuted by the next six. So that first sentence is right in a way, but only for you.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Bikes are easier to steal than cars. In my "ghetto," poor kids have badass bikes, that they usually, um, "found" downtown.

Re:Why?

[ArmoredDragon]

Ok what about this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Or this guy?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Apparently they're not hard to find, so probably more common than you think.

Re:Why?

[edtice1559]

I wish there were a -1 Bullshit mod. We all love stories of panhandlers really being a scam, because it eases our conscience. I live in Florida and I can tell you that nobody would stand out in this sun if they had an alternative! That doesn't just include panhandlers. Probably landscapers as well. There may be *a* rich panhandler, somewhere. But chances are that the people at street lights really are in need. Directly giving money may not actually help as they often have substance abuse and mental health problems. But if you're going to decline giving at the lights,don't assuage your conscience with a story like this. Find an appropriate charity and donate there. $2/day is $60/month. You can set it up as a recurring donation.

Re:Why?

[Coren22]

I don't know about you, but when I camp, I have a tent, sleeping bag, even a hammock if I want to go really simple.

Re:Why?

[praxis]

More common than Chalnoth means nothing. Three people on YouTube mean nothing. What percentage of Real Chance sellers are gaming the organization in such a way that the organization is unawares? *That* is the important question here.

Re:Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

I also with there was a -1 Bullshit mod. Here's your cite for panhandlers being rich:

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/02/14/infamous-sticker-lady-makes-a-return-to-yonge-st

"Hebert was giving the same spiel when in 2005, a Toronto Sun investigation revealed that at the end of each workday Hebert drove her leased 2001 Volkswagen Jetta back to a three-storey, $330,000 house in Hamilton owned by her husband."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/678638/posts

"Toronto Police Const. Andrew Hassall once saw a woman so torn up about the Shaky Lady she bought her a $200 coat at The Bay. The beggar croaked her thanks, waited for the woman to leave, then threw out the coat. Hassall couldn't persuade the kind woman she'd been had."

I actually met that particular beggar, or more specifically, people watched her. This time she had a cast on her arm and was begging for money. Her cup dropped. Anyone with a cast know you'd never use your casted arm to suddenly grab it, because it would hurt like hell, and you have a good arm, so don't be foolish, right?

She rushed down and picked it up with her casted arm, then used her good arm to adjust the cast because, of course, it fell off.

As for charity, I donate $20,000 a year to many causes, most of which I don't even support!

Re:Why?

[cthulhu11]

Here they're often out in the rain as well. I was once told that it's most effective to support organizations that provide services, vs giving cash directly, so that's what I usually do, but there's one guy who sits with his dog in a parking lot island at a mall. I give him whatever change I have, figure it's for the dog. As for scamming, I dunno how prevalent that is. Many of the panhandlers I see here look to be a physical wreck and not living the good life. What *does* bug me though is when I see someone with a sign begging for food or work or shelter, yet they're smoking, which ain't cheap.

There's an even better app for that

[goombah99]

It's the easiest way to not get harassed by these guys.

After you pay, the google maps locates the panhandlers location, and routes around it. They could charge for this service as a micro payment, and then give the money to the pan handler.

Does it report seller's location and ID?

[ciaran2014]

If the seller is to get the money then the bar code must be unique to that seller, so it's not the general bar code of the magazine that's getting scanned.

The phone then reports this seller's ID to some central server. Does it also report geolocation data? (Is there any non-free-software app nowadays that doesn't?) How many people get this data? Google and the magazine company (and any government agency that asks for it)?

So smartphone users are being used to report homeless people's movements around the city. Or at the very least, it's open to that type of abuse.

Am I wrong?

Re:Does it report seller's location and ID?

[Em Adespoton]

Am I wrong?

No, you're just thinking too small-scale ;)

Re:Does it report seller's location and ID?

[Anonymous Coward]

I bet you a nickle that the Powers that Be won't get any more information from this than if they spoke to a friendly member of law enforcement.

Re:Does it report seller's location and ID?

[swillden]

The phone then reports this seller's ID to some central server. Does it also report geolocation data?

I seriously doubt it. I don't see how location reporting for a payment transaction in which location data is irrelevant could possibly pass Google's privacy policy review process. Collection of data not relevant to the transaction is not generally allowed[*], and if the data in question is personally identifiable (mappable to some specific individual), then a really compelling reason for collection is required, as well as tight internal controls on how the data is managed and who has access. I don't see what could possibly justify it in this case, and I can see a lot of risk in collecting it.

FYI, Google product teams have to develop privacy design docs for all new products, and the designs have to be reviewed by the privacy team (or their delegates) and pass the privacy review before they can be launched. Although Google set these processes up before the FTC settlement, I believe they became part of the consent decree and are now mandated by the FTC and validated in regular audits, so Google can't skip or violate them without potentially-significant consequences.

Disclaimer: I'm not a Google spokesperson and this is not an official statement. It is my personal perspective on the process and requirements. However, I'm a Google engineer who's been involved in launching privacy-sensitive products, so I think my perspective is accurate. I also do security reviews of Google projects, which sometimes touches on privacy issues (though privacy review is separate from security review, as it should be).

[*] Just to head off a likely riposte: No, StreetView Wifi collection and the Safari do-not-track workaround are not counterexamples. They predated the privacy review processes and, as I understand it, were part of the motivation for establishing the processes.

Re:Does it report seller's location and ID?

[tlhIngan]

I seriously doubt it. I don't see how location reporting for a payment transaction in which location data is irrelevant could possibly pass Google's privacy policy review process. Collection of data not relevant to the transaction is not generally allowed[*], and if the data in question is personally identifiable (mappable to some specific individual), then a really compelling reason for collection is required, as well as tight internal controls on how the data is managed and who has access. I don't see what could possibly justify it in this case, and I can see a lot of risk in collecting it.

There's a lot of information involved in payment systems you think are irrelevant, but are passed on in order to judge if the payment is potentially fraudulent or not.

That includes things like location data (are you making a transaction where you normally make transactions, or in a new location (this is often the reason why credit cards are blocked when on vacaation), are transactions being made in impossible schedules - e.g., you used your credit card in Seattle, then in New York an hour later?). Online sellers routinely pass your shipping information to the card processor for the same reason - and can even ask for enhanced scrutiny. This verifies that the shipping address is known to the processor (either you put it on your credit card or it's been used constantly).

You may be confident that Google isn't collecting the data, but it's made available as part of the standard fraud checks. It's also why there's slightly more pushback against Google Wallet (where Google does get all the information involved in the transaction) than Apple Pay (where after setup, Apple is out of the picture and the information is shared between you, the retailer, the processor and your bank).

Re:Does it report seller's location and ID?

[Anonymous Coward]

The potential is there. In NYC the police ignore the people claiming to be homeless who beg on the subway, despite it being against the law.

Re:Does it report seller's location and ID?

[jittles]

If the seller is to get the money then the bar code must be unique to that seller, so it's not the general bar code of the magazine that's getting scanned.

The phone then reports this seller's ID to some central server. Does it also report geolocation data? (Is there any non-free-software app nowadays that doesn't?) How many people get this data? Google and the magazine company (and any government agency that asks for it)?

So smartphone users are being used to report homeless people's movements around the city. Or at the very least, it's open to that type of abuse.

Am I wrong?

Or maybe the government is exploiting homeless people to keep track of you??

Re:Does it report seller's location and ID?

[plcurechax]

I seriously doubt it. I don't see how location reporting for a payment transaction in which location data is irrelevant could possibly pass Google's privacy policy review process. Collection of data not relevant to the transaction is not generally allowed[*]

Geo-location associated with transactions is one of the simplest, most effective fraud detection methods, AFAIK, used in traditional (Point-of-Sales, credit cards, smart card and pin - aka card-and-pin) and online transactions done by financial companies.

For example: The Settle soccer mom who suddenly spends a few thousands dollars on jewellery in Nigera, without having a family member buying any airline tickets, generally sets off a red-flag that is verified or investigated.

I believe all online payment systems do some sort of geo-location based correlation, for fraud detection / reduction. It was common practice in 2000, I think I first experienced it in late 1990s, maybe 1998.

Re:Does it report seller's location and ID?

[plcurechax]

I seriously doubt it. I don't see how location reporting for a payment transaction in which location data is irrelevant could possibly pass Google's privacy policy review process. Collection of data not relevant to the transaction is not generally allowed[*]

Geo-location associated with transactions is one of the simplest, most effective fraud detection methods, [...]

Fine-grain, i.e. high precision, such as an actual raw GPS or Assisted-GPS reading for location, is not necessary for fraud detection to be effective, and is generally counter productive.

Re:Does it report seller's location and ID?

[plcurechax]

If the seller is to get the money then the bar code must be unique to that seller, so it's not the general bar code of the magazine that's getting scanned.

The phone then reports this seller's ID to some central server.

This is a real issue as a notable percentage of long-term homeless tends to include individuals with mental illness, and in particular may be rationally or irrationally paranoid (from both previous experiences with government officials& law enforcement, and from the illness itself).

So identity card programs can be a tough sell, even ones meant purely to benefit the homeless themselves.

The reality of such a program unfortunately fits all too well into paranoid delusions that some homeless with mental illness suffer from.

Re:Does it report seller's location and ID?

[swillden]

Sure, but that requires only very coarse -- city-level, at most -- geolocation. If I were reviewing this product for launch, I'd tell them that they can use location as a risk signal, but must coarsen it to avoid making it possible to use it for people-tracking.

Assuming I have a smartphone

[Anonymous Coward]

..... Sorry I don't have any smartphones.

Google Could Go One Better

[BECoole]

And figure out how to route the money directly to their drug/alcohol dealers.

I hereby declare this practice...

[QRDeNameland]

...scanhandling.

Re:I hereby declare this practice...

[BadPirate]

Parent wins the internet. Time to pack up and go home.

Solution in search of a problem

[DogDude]

Who walks around without $2 in their pocket? What a tragic waste of time and effort.

Re:Solution in search of a problem

[Anonymous Coward]

People who've been mugged for the change in their wallets?

Re: Solution in search of a problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I usually don't carry cash. If I am carrying, it's more often $20 than change.

Re:Solution in search of a problem

[93 Escort Wagon]

Who walks around without $2 in their pocket?

I keep an "emergency $20" in my phone's wallet case - but that's generally the only cash I have on me most of the time.

On a side note - I wonder when I turned into that guy? I used to swear I would never, ever use a debit card. Now that's almost always how I buy stuff.

Re:Solution in search of a problem

[TheRealHocusLocus]

I keep an "emergency $20" in my phone's wallet case

Look again. It's gone.
Actually I did take it, then put it back.
Truth is I was after your phone all along.
Swapped it with mine. Look closely.
Actually it wasn't mine, I'd already swapped phones with someone else.
But it wasn't their phone, they had been phone-swapping too.
There's lots of us out there swapping phones all the time.
Tower of Hanoi Gray's code variation.
In place of disc size, we use criteria of how closely one phone resembled another.
Towers are actually three logs of reversible permutations.
It's complicated.
People tend not to notice a series of small incremental changes.
Swapped it again, twice. Just showing off.
Actually we started rolling the game backwards awhile ago.
Down to the last un-swap now. Swap.
Now we all have our own phones again. That was fun!
Is this your $20 that I just pulled out of your left ear?
Yup, but I put my $20 in your phone wallet.
Swapped. You now have your phone and your $20.

But all this was just smoke and mirrors.
While you were distracted with this swapping business,
the terms and conditions of your phone plan have changed.
By accessing the website to see what has been changed,
you implicitly agree to the changes.
So don't look.

Don't worry. Be happy.
While we weren't looking, the whole damned Universe has been replaced with Folgers Crystals.

Re:Solution in search of a problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I carry $1k in 100s (for a serious emergency; e.g. need to buy a bicycle in case of next 9/11 or something), $40 in 20s (for occasions), and credit card for everything else. The $20s get cycled in/out every few months or so. The $1k pretty much stationary in my wallet since I started carrying it.

Re:Solution in search of a problem

[TheRealHocusLocus]

I used to swear I would never, ever use a debit card. Now that's almost always how I buy stuff.

Same here.
I remember when card purchases were mostly "hell no!"
Surcharge that was a percentage off sale price, several dollar minimum.
Then flat $2.00 fees. Then $1.00. Then 50c.
Hand over your card for ten minutes to a waitron,
who dials a toll-free number (busy again!) and shouts digits into the phone.
Then swipes it in a standalone modem dial-up widget (busy again!).
Internet happened. Digital connectivity happened.
Charges up the wazoo that vary from place to place, then NOTHING.
On a clear day of Magick, assimilation complete.
Used to be you could see pain in peoples' faces when you produce a card.
Now no pain, and they will gladly process a purchase of $0.01

That is because all the pain has been extracted from electronic commerce.
It has been transported by Magick to a subterranean realm where damned souls
shriek in agony and cry out for mercy every time small purchases are made.
They endure searing torment and bear the terrible burden of infrastructure overhead
so you don't have to.
All quiet up here.
Tiptoe softly into the future, my friend,
lest the Accountants throw open the gates to Hell.

Re:Solution in search of a problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Who walks around without $2 in their pocket?

Hipsters with mom's credit card. Have you not seen Seattle?

Re:Solution in search of a problem

[LessThanObvious]

I carry small bills loose in my pocket whenever possible in large cities. If a homeless person gives me a bad vibe, I'd rather appease them and give a couple dollars and I like to be able to do it without pulling out my wallet in front of them or anyone else who may be watching. Standing there on the street looking down and fumbling in your wallet is a bad idea.

Why?

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, every time I see our local version of this program (here it's called StreetWise) I shake my head. I don't buy *regular* newspapers anymore, why on earth would I want to buy a crappy newspaper featuring news articles that impact homeless people? This would be like the Google-equivalent of 1915 investing in training the indigent (or whatever the offensive term homeless was back then) in making wagon wheels.

Do you have any change?

[Rinikusu]

Yes.
Can I have some?
No.

Won't work for me!

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm still living in the dark ages, I am still using a Palm Treo. No barcode app, and I don't have any change, either.

Or just send him some bits?

[Anonymous Coward]

The homeless in Florida have been receiving bitcoin donations for over a year over in /r/bitcoin. They then turn around and cash out at a local bitcoin ATM or buy a gift card for a local restaurant through GYFT.

Mobile payments

[diamondmagic]

No one's gonna use this for donating to panhandlers (just to bump into them at the store buying more alcohol...)

The real use for this will be tip jars, purchasing products, mobile micropayments.

You think business is gonna see this technology and just sit on their hands?

Re:Mobile payments

[Anonymous Coward]

Hell I don't use cash simply to avoid the tip jar scenario.

Just buy this t-shirt

[elmer at web-axis]

http://www.tshirthell.com/shir...

No. It is real.

[frovingslosh]

No. It is real. And great news. I'm going to tell all of our local homeless beggars about it and suggest that they should go to Seattle.

Re:No. It is real.

[Anonymous Coward]

Homeless street vendors. We don't call them beggars anymore. They're selling.. they're selling. Well, they say, "God bless you," after, so I guess that they're selling a service.

Re:No. It is real.

[davester666]

So, you pay them to not sneeze on you?

Re:No. It is real.

[Shakrai]

I'm going to tell all of our local homeless beggars about it and suggest that they should go to Seattle.

It's more fun to suggest they get a job. They either leave you alone or get uppity and provoke a confrontation that ends with them on the receiving end of pepper spray. Either way you win.

Repeat after me: "I'm sorry for the hassle officer, I was afraid he was going to hurt me."

Re:No. It is real.

[Anonymous Coward]

There are so many libertarians, objectivists, and tea baggers on this site anymore for a moment I thought you were serious.

Re:No. It is real.

[Anonymous Coward]

I rather scare them into running away then fire off eight shots at them before they can get me on my six. After that I plant a taser, some crack, and a dead hooker that I keep in my trunk. /s

Caotcha: holder
Captcha system you're sick.

Re:No. It is real.

[Anonymous Coward]

On this site anymore? This has been a Libertarian lounge from the beginning. Are you new or something?

Re:No. It is real.

[Anonymous Coward]

They're selling.. they're selling. Well, they say, "God bless you,"

Really? I've never received so much as a "thank you". Consequently, I no longer donate to this particular cause.

Re:No. It is real.

[Anonymous Coward]

Great thinking there, genius. Then they'll start begging for money for a bus ticket to Seattle.

Thanks. Thanks, a lot.

Easy response to new panhandler request

[Anonymous Coward]

I have a Windows phone

Not the first app of its kind...

[Anonymous Coward]

Great idea; however this isn't the first of its kind. This type of payment app has been available for the local homeless paper in Nashville--The Contributor--since last year.

Theft target?

[hawguy]

Sounds like a great way to make yourself a theft target -- who is going to take out their $700 phone and scan a paper held out by a by a guy begging for cash?

Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's kill google maps, develop self driving cars. Let's kill reader, produce bastard google plus then abort it. Let's kill talk, and produce shitty buggy hangouts. Let's kill everything that once was for something new. We got money for space balloons, money for glassholes. No love for the user anymore. But damn, let's make it easier for bum ass panhandlers to suck money out of people trying to at least somewhat respect natural selection and do useful work. google utopia!!!!!

Re:Cool

[Time_Ngler]

Do you not see the irony in your comment considering google provides most of its services for free?

here's more appropriate headline:

[porky_pig_jr]

Google helps homeless street vendors get paid by cashless customers by bitcoins from a SilkRoad affiliated site. Stay tuned.

Makes sense

[Anonymous Coward]

Google's business is mostly to sell things people don't want.

I thought...

[MouseTheLuckyDog]

Google was supposed to "Do No Evil".

Re:I thought...

[Anonymous Coward]

They now make money off homeless people. Guess their "market" keeps expanding...

Here, let me hold out my smartphone for you...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yoink! *beggar runs off with phone*

Meh...

[Anonymous Coward]

This isn't anything new. In Denmark we've been able to buy "Hus Forbi" over SMS for quite some time.

Still a nice initiative from Google, though.

timberland pas cher 2015 France

[zhenqinxan]

Save space for souvenirs though! Definitely invest in some high quality walking sneakers- by your first night in Prague you will realize that you actually can feel your pulse through your feet timberland Homme You will probably wake up with blisters on top of blisters. Nights can be chilly, even in summer, so bring a light jacket no matter when you go. Since you do so much walking, it'd be wise to bring an umbrella to avoid the hairspray dripping in your eyes and preventing you from seeing the sites if it rains. If you get headaches from the sun or looking up a lot, bring aspirin- things are very tall here. Do not forget that Europe runs on 220 volts and 50 Hz so you might want a little transformer, about $25 in the US. Prague has the same standard outlets that you find across Europe. If you are going to be there in the high summer, casual and light clothing should be fine (up to 27 degrees Celsius is what you are looking at); on the other hand, if you will be there in the dead of winter, bring your winter jackets, mittens, scarf, etc. You will need them!

Two years?

[robi5]

> Google has spent two years working with the Real Change organization to develop a barcode-scanning app which lets passers-by purchase a digital edition with their mobile phones

Srsly? Put it in the Guinness Book for the longest tech spike ever. Had Elon Musk adopted this ambitious pace, he'd still use a slingshot.

Stand-your-ground legislation

[Anonymous Coward]

These guys are a perfect example why I support this legislation. When things get out of hand, which happens regularly, you should have the right to protect yourself.

New?

[Anonymous Coward]

We did exactly this using SMS in 2005. So no, Google this is nothing new.

Or you could say "no thanks"

[wonkey_monkey]

Starting today Seattle pedestrians can no longer pat their pockets and claim to have no cash when offered a copy of the ironically-named Real Change weekly newspaper by a homeless street vendor.

Well, firstly, yes they can.

Secondly, what's wrong with treating someone like a human being instead of a potential murderer and saying "no thanks"?

What a waste...

[Anonymous Coward]

If I'm not going to pull cash out of my pocket in front of some street urchin, what makes anyone think I'm going to pull out a $700 smart phone?

Ignore those people. Keep walking

google is full of shit..

[Anonymous Coward]

from tfa

Google has stated that it will not be profiting from the app

then why the fuck ....

digital version of the paper, priced at $2.99 (as opposed to the print price of $2).

someone is making extra money here, and it's not the homeless vendors... at only $0.09 extra of the sale price for a digital sale

and will get just under half ($1.49) of the cost of a sold digital edition, as opposed to $1.40 for the hardcopy version.

so that unaccounted-for $0.90 extra per sale? google's cut and transaction fees.
do no evil? or do know evil?

No cash?

[operagost]

Starting today Seattle pedestrians can no longer pat their pockets and claim to have no cash

So now they will have cash? MAGIC!

Oh, yes, it's very nice-a!!

[Anonymous Coward]

Seattle pedestrians can no longer pat their pockets and claim to have no cash when offered a copy of the ironically-named Real Change weekly newspaper by a homeless street vendor.

(I told him I already got one!!)

If they can stand around and ask for money...

[Anonymous Coward]

They can stand around and hold up a sign for a mattress retailer. I no longer give money to beggars in America because there are no poor people in America in any meaningful sense. Those panhandlers who are mentally ill could voluntarily live in a treatment center if they chose to. The people who just want to live a lifestyle without real work should not receive any funds, ever, period. Finally, those who are actually hardshipped (due to sudden, verifiable circumstance) have no shortage of non-profit organizations to seek out and receive help from, provided they follow basic rules that would prevent a recurrence of their current circumstances. I fund some of those, as they have the time and expertise to separate the riff-raff from the downtrodden.

everyone has their phone out already

[Ionized]

if you want to steal phones, i promise you that finding people with their phones already out will not be a problem.

experience, not prejudice

[Anonymous Coward]

At which point can "experience" stop being called "prejudice" ? If day in, day out the people on that corner accost others for money, is it prejudice to assume any person hanging in that group will do the same ? Am I required now to just assume every new homeless guy on that corner is a blank slate and could be my new friend ? If someone offers me a free hat and follows up with guilt-trip request for donation because it's not really free, am I wrong to suspect friendly people offering free hats of ulterior motives to avoid the harrassment in the future ?

Why should we turn our brain off and ignore all the pattern recognition that worked for our survival a hundred thousand years ?