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Declassified Report From 2009 Questions Effectiveness of NSA Spying
schwit1 writes: With debate gearing up over the coming expiration of the Patriot Act surveillance law, the Obama administration on Saturday unveiled a 6-year-old report examining the once-secret program code-named Stellarwind, which collected information on Americans' calls and emails. The report was from the inspectors general of various intelligence and law enforcement agencies.
They found that while many senior intelligence officials believe the program filled a gap by increasing access to international communications, others including FBI agents, CIA analysts and managers "had difficulty evaluating the precise contribution of the [the surveillance system] to counterterrorism efforts because it was most often viewed as one source among many available analytic and intelligence-gathering tools in these efforts."
"The report said that the secrecy surrounding the program made it less useful. Very few working-level C.I.A. analysts were told about it. ... Another part of the newly disclosed report provides an explanation for a change in F.B.I. rules during the Bush administration. Previously, F.B.I. agents had only two types of cases: "preliminary" and "full" investigations. But the Bush administration created a third, lower-level type called an "assessment." This development, it turns out, was a result of Stellarwind.
They found that while many senior intelligence officials believe the program filled a gap by increasing access to international communications, others including FBI agents, CIA analysts and managers "had difficulty evaluating the precise contribution of the [the surveillance system] to counterterrorism efforts because it was most often viewed as one source among many available analytic and intelligence-gathering tools in these efforts."
"The report said that the secrecy surrounding the program made it less useful. Very few working-level C.I.A. analysts were told about it. ... Another part of the newly disclosed report provides an explanation for a change in F.B.I. rules during the Bush administration. Previously, F.B.I. agents had only two types of cases: "preliminary" and "full" investigations. But the Bush administration created a third, lower-level type called an "assessment." This development, it turns out, was a result of Stellarwind.
How much did that report cost? I could have given it to them in 2 words, for free:
Q: "Is unconstitutional warrantless spying effective?"
A: "Fuck no."
1) Tell us that it is not effective; thus we need not worry about loss of privacy; thus we might we well let them continue ?
2) It is not effective because they have not got enough money for XXX; so: please Mr congress critter - vote them some more money
3) It is not effective; you need not worry about encrypting your communications; hopefully enough idiots will believe that!
Pick one of the above or come out with more suggestions.
I vote for marking Snowden as a journalist and for the US to admit that the whole fiasco was an institutionalized attack on democracy from over enthusiastic patriots.
And if they keep going with what they are doing, they are playing terrorists hands, because what is the core goal of terrorists?
Spread terror, spread fear. And now we have no means to protect our communication and data while we know the NSA is spying our all every move, we are more afraid then ever.
1) Collect extensive intelligence from phone calls and internet activity of all Americans
2) Don't tell other agencies about it
3) ???
4) PROFIT!
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
http://video.pbs.org/video/236... The recent Frontline documentary "American Terrorist" (which investigates American-born David Coleman Headley and his involvement in the Mumbai assault and the thwarted attack on a Danish newspaper) seemed to reach a similar conclusion. It was originally touted as an NSA bulk data collection success story by high level officials, but they had to backpedal as the truth emerged.
The conclusion seems to be that while they are able to collect a vast amount of information, they are unable to process and analyze all of the information gathered and connect it to individuals that warrant investigation. And Headley was extremely messy in many situations (e.g. directly contacting wanted terrorist leaders) where others certainly are not--so messy that my confidence in the NSA's abilities has diminished (this is assuming bulk data collection is a good thing to begin with, and I don't think it is). The data collected mainly became useful *after* an incident rather than being used to thwart an attack.
Perhaps things have changed by now as this is an investigation of something that happened several years ago, but I highly recommend the documentary.
There is simply no way human beings can sort through that much data. That means relying on gadgets and software to do the sorting for the humans. Anyone who manages big data can tell you how corrupt most data sets really are. Names spelled different ways, bits of information incorrectly transcribed, copy errors, format errors, import errors are all low probability events but, when you're dealing with billions of records, there are a lot of them. Just in general, gadget security doesn't work.
In nearly every terrorist event that's happened in the U.S., the FBI had tips from alert citizens. That was true for 9/11 and almost all of them in between. The FBI even interviewed the Boston Marathon bombers. HUMINT works.
Funny that the FBI screw ups don't get more media attention. In nearly every case they didn't effectively use the information they had, so how is more information going to make things better?
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
The summary seems to indicate that the value of "Stellarwind" wasn't clear because it was one of many sources and few had access to it, not that all NSA spying was seen as ineffective.
The NSA does so much spying that it seems like it would be hard to ever calculate the marginal value of each additional unit of spying. Probably more so because of the fragmentary and unreliable nature of clandestine information and the need to develop multiple sources to achieve any kind of confidence about a particular conclusion or piece of information.
The latter bit is probably what leads to never-ending development of new data sources and methods, especially as each new spying method becomes less and less specific and requires more and more analysis to tease out information. Call metadata doesn't tell you what was discussed or necessarily who was called. You need parallel data from some other source to tell you who is associated with those numbers, where they were, etc.
The program is un-constitutional and therefore needs to be dismantled and the people responsible for it tried for treason. The issue of effectiveness is separate and irrelevant.
There's always going to be an optimal balance between information and cognition. Our problem now is that we are gathering too much information for any automated or natural cognition equipment to handle in a useful way. If the NSA were made up of smarter people, they would be focusing far more heavily on AI and crowd-cognitive analysis techniques using humans, not big data.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
It's not a matter of anything "Islam" being sensitive to the Oval Office. We're not talking about "political correctness" at all. It's far worse than that.
It becomes a whole lot clearer and understandable when you realize that the current administration is actually on the other side.
Usually when it comes to the whole security show spiel, there's little, if any, relevant information going public. Especially when it shows that the whole crap is just a big, useless black hole for pork barrel money. How often and how long have we been asking for anything that shows the whole TSA annoyance has anything coming close to resembling having a positive effect on security?
But suddenly we get such a report without even asking for it? C'mon. What crony didn't pay his kickback in time so his project has to be axed?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It is effective at gathering data on domestic political opponents. And ex-lovers. And whatever class du-jour is on the outs.
They want to further the spying agenda, outlaw encryption and p2p technology because spying needs centralised servers (e.g. skype had to move to a centralized model), and want more funding. Gimme money money money. Ha, and they want to leer over your naked teen photos every time she crosses the border with her mobilel. And the code of your bank accounts and your emails too.
... why then that moslem soldier Nidal Malik Hasan was allowed to possess deadly firearm, despite his extreme Jihadist views, which had already been known to the 'intelligence agencies', including NSA and DIA?
If not for the 'political correctness' the 13 American soldiers didn't have to die
Furthermore, Nidal Malik Hasan is not the only moslem terrorism that happened under the watch of the current administration --- The Boston Marathon Bombing, in which 2 moslems planted bombs resulted in innocent bystanders died and injured --- the pair of moslem brothers, especially the older guy, had already been questioned by the authority
They let him loose not because they had nothing on him --- they let him loose because of he being a moslem, and to the 'political correctness' people, Islam is a 'sensitive' item, and the moslems must not be harassed in any way, not even when they pose dangers to the American public
On the other hand, the same administration think nothing to harrass the Christians --- the IRS harassment against the Christian NGOs is but one of the many examples of the anti-Christian mindset of the secular (liberal) administration
just like the DEA. Nothing is going to stop it now....
by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
Ashcroft was ready to resign over it. He was hospitalized and incapable of acting as AG. James Comey, his deputy, showed up in the hospital room that night. Alberto Gonzalez (at the time, the White House's lawyer, no DoJ affiliation) was racing to get to the hospital to get Ashcroft to sign off on it. Ashcroft refused.
The story reads like an episode of 24. The tl;dr is that the Administration hired its own lawyers Yoo and Gonzalez to tell them it was legal. Then tried to browbeat an incapacitated Attorney General into signing off on it. Then, when that didn't work, pressured his deputies to sign off on it. John Mueller, then head of the FBI, also freaked out when he heard about STELLARWIND:
> Comey testifies that there was something of a line to resign that day: Mueller; then Comey's chief of staff; and then Ashcroft's chief of staff -- who asked only that Comey wait until "Ashcroft was well enough to resign with me"
- http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2007/05/pulling_the_plug.single.html
That's not American jurisprudence, that's not even Russian jurisprudence. What happened in that hospital in 2004 was on a par with Soviet-tier "jurisprudence." Then it was legalized in 2007 because nobody in Congress was allowed to know what they were legalizing. And it's been with us ever since.
We have seen too many incidents of outrageous police conduct lately and it surely indicates that a lot more outrageous police conduct takes place. Maybe it is high time for the public to invest in a lot more hidden cams designed not just to catch criminals but bad cops as well. The single most vital thing we could do as a society is to allow voice recording almost everywhere. bribes and corruption flourish when laws exist making it illegal to record conversations. If we simply had access to every single conversation that our people in congress have we would have a much better nation. The same is true inside businesses. A great deal of evil goes on in businesses. How useful would it have been to be able to recover conversations going on in the tobacco companies back in the 1950s? Millions of lives could have been saved in that one example alone. In the end the public really doesn't want justice.
I sure hope the Obama administration puts two and two together and realizes how wasteful mass surveillance programs are and try to end them.
SPOILER: They will not.
The other change beyond the funding quantity was the prestige of advancement beyond just been invited in for signals support or an archive function for other expert mil and gov work.
Real time work, setting policy was the new upgrade. New systems, contractors, linguistics, networks.
The domestic and international telco networks as they have existed and exist now are not a problem in terms of scale or access for the NSA and GCHQ.
Collect it all has always worked well given the all digital systems and funding.
Bulk collection has never been a problem since the 1930's for the USA. The UK and US did have a few Russian and Korean language issues back in the 1950's due to all the information been collected. That was quickly fixed.
The only question that has existed is what the press and historians understand. The UK view was that no signals collection material was to ever to been seen in any public court setting or commented on. Collect it all would not exist in the UK as public policy. The US is now talking of public lock boxes for all telco use been open to courts and devices sold with gov backdoors, trapdoors to reverse any crypto as used.
Watching the Soviet Union was not never a problem of how or been in need of more equipment. Understanding all US domestic and international calls was never a problem over many decades. The real question was the use of the result (ever more closed court use) or and who in mil/gov gets to set and shape policy.
Who will see the better result?
The classic UK view of letting people just use the telephone and networks as normal while collecting all? The results been used with great care as to never offer any public insight into what was done..
Or the US public talk of gov keys kept for consumer crypto and huge telco databases open to courts over decades? The public fully understanding their new phone/crypto is a tool of the gov/mil as sold.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Wow.
my take.
killer blow is around page 443.
Some "Yoo" memorandum declares it legal.
There is then a chain of new people who come in thinking its not legal.
Then on page 443, Philbin goes into full legal explanation of why it was illegal. (mostly blacked out in the public release afaics)