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Woman Behind Pakistan's First Hackathon, Sabeen Mahmud, Shot Dead

An anonymous reader sends word that Sabeen Mahmud, a prominent Pakistani social and human rights activist, has been shot dead. The progressive activist and organizer who ran Pakistan's first-ever hackathon and led a human rights and a peace-focused nonprofit known as The Second Floor (T2F) was shot dead by unidentified gunmen in Karachi. Sabeen Mahmud was leaving the T2F offices with her mother some time after 9pm on Friday evening, reports the Pakistani newspaper Dawn. She was on her way home when she was shot, the paper reports. Her mother also sustained bullet wounds and is currently being treated at a hospital; she is said to be in critical condition.

23 of 494 comments (clear)

  1. Damn... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You think the US is hostile to women in tech?

    I hope they find the bastards who did this, but I'm not holding my breath. She seemed like a vibrant, engaging, and intelligent woman. Pakistan will need more people like her to continue the fight against their more regressive, barbaric elements. My condolences to her family and friends.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    1. Re:Damn... by Billly+Gates · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pakistan is a very radical Islamic country. Why did they seceed from India when India has millions of muslims? Because it wasn't radical enough. Education is dangerous to the extremists with beards if women started thinking for themselves then how can they have Sharia law?

    2. Re:Damn... by mean+pun · · Score: 4, Informative

      These neat little theories are always so so convenient to explain why everyone else is inferior. Yet Pakistan elected a woman as prime minister: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.... Perhaps the world is more complicated than these little theories suggest?

    3. Re:Damn... by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Insightful

      wrong, get a refund on your history lessons, radical islam not responsible for Pakistan but rather push lead by All-India Muslim league which was concerned with rights for muslims and also by the way led in promoting the democratic process for Pakistan.

      only about 15 of the populace of Pakistan would be "radical" by any standard. The rest are "hippy muslims" that drink, smoke (and not just tobacco), watch porn, gamble etc.

    4. Re:Damn... by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Funny

      Education is dangerous to the extremists with beards if women started thinking for themselves then how can they have Sharia law?

      Exactly, and on a side note, this perfectly illustrates the mentality of men who have beards. Hipsters and women who are attracted to bearded men, take note.

    5. Re:Damn... by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 4, Informative

      That's like the opposite of what happened.

      Pakistan does not exist because of the machinations of the British. Rather, Pakistan came into existence due to the withdrawal and general shutdown of the British Empire, which like many occupations was suppressing tribal and ethnic dissent in order to keep their territories together. The moment the Empire (which was weak and failing at this point in time anyway) released its hold on the country there was a huge bloody massacre and a civil war ("The Partition") which resulted in the creation of Pakistan.

      So it's not like the British stood around and encouraged Muslims and Hindus to fight each other. They did that all on their own.

    6. Re:Damn... by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 5, Informative

      > We didn't have any inquisitions.

      Unless you were native American, in which case your land and property were taken and your people murdered, partly because you weren't Christian. Or if you were black, in which case you were enslaved and forced to a new language and not permitted to follow your old gods. Or, if you were a member of the Latter Day Saints, who were considered non-Christian and heretical and dangerous and were kicked out of state after state until they settled in the effectively empty, very poor land around Salt Lake City. Or unless you were Jewish, which prevented entry into various political and social clubs and even prevented people from doing business with you in various times and places.

      Make no pretense that the USA has been consistently tolerant of religious belief. The modern Christian religions may be accepting of other faiths, but they have not always been this way.

    7. Re:Damn... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Christians ran the colonies from roughly the 1550s when the Spanish colonized Mexico and the Southwest to about 1785 on the East Coast when the Constitution, guaranteeing that the government could not endorse religion (e.g., "Congress shall make no law regarding an endorsement of religion") to bit less than a hundred years later when the Spanish/Russian governance of the west coast ended.

      During that time, the Christians did all kinds of good things:
      - they ran witch trials in Salem (and other places), hung or otherwise executed lots of people for not believing the right way - aka blasphemy, which is a completely bullshit crime, and anyone who calls for punishment for blasphemy is too stupid to swim in the gene pool;
      - they found and perpetuated biblical justification for slavery and the economic excesses of industrialism - remember, kids, Calvinism teaches that your state of being is an expression of whether or not god loves you, so if you're poor or a slave or otherwise marginalized, god doesn't love you much, and you're probably going to hell;
      - they abused the crap out of the people actually living in the territories they took over, and decided it was OK to do it because the xtians were bringing the natives the benefits of xtianity - all of which, interestingly, accrued to the xtians, with the natives decidedly getting the short end of the stick, which situation is perpetuated today;
      - they elevated biblical literalism - another shallow-gene-pool thing - into a place where they asserted that their dogma, untested, untestable, utterly unverifiable, and completely subject to interpretation, was more true on an objective level than empirical science - as witness the witless xtians who still defend the Scopes trial and question basic science, or who think (for example) that women's bodies somehow protect against pregnancy from rape....

      So, yeah, we didn't have inquisitions, exactly, other than bunches of millions of people who died as the result of gentle xtian doctrine over the last couple of hundred years. And we still have a strong streak of aggressively ignorant xtianity which is crudely bound to a set of racist, sexist, hateful, marginalizing beliefs that have achieved ascendancy that scars the political landscape

    8. Re:Damn... by GiganticLyingMouth · · Score: 5, Informative

      These neat little theories are always so so convenient to explain why everyone else is inferior. Yet Pakistan elected a woman as prime minister: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B.... Perhaps the world is more complicated than these little theories suggest?

      ... the fine print being that she too was murdered (in 2007), with Al-Qaeda claiming responsibility. Arguing that Pakistan doesn't have a problem with militant islamist groups murdering women is a pretty tough sell

    9. Re:Damn... by cold+fjord · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually, we did. Like most Americans, sadly, you know nothing of history beyond, say, 1980 or some such. If you did know some history, you would know ...

      Like many people on Slashdot you seem to have a defective knowledge of history and the church.

      If one were to look into the history they would find that you either grossly exagerate on these matters, or are simply wrong. Many of the early colonies were formed by religous sects coming from Europe. Once in America they adopted the European customs of institutionalizing the church with the government. Although in some colonies other sects were persecuted, few were killed. In any case it was nothing like the scale or severity of European persecution. Other colonies had different views. Rhode Island was formed with the ideal of religious tolerence, and other colonies were adopting laws for tolerance by 1650. Eventually all of the colonies adeopted the US Constitution, became states, and moved past that.

      As to the "Christian justifications for the genocide against American Indians" I have to ask, what genocide are you referring to? There wasn't one.

      Reject the Lie of White "Genocide" Against Native Americans
      Were American Indians the Victims of Genocide?

      As to your claims about "lines of Christian preachers submitted tons of briefs, all saying that their Christian God had deemed that black people were inherently inferior and not worthy of any basic human rights" in the case of Loving vs Virginia, which briefs are you referring to? The only brief I see listed from an organization claiming church affiliation was against Virginia's law.

      LOVING v. VIRGINIA, 388 U.S. 1 (1967)

      Briefs of amici curiae, urging reversal, were filed by William M. Lewers and William B. Ball for the National Catholic Conference for Interracial Justice et al.; [388 U.S. 1, 2] by Robert L. Carter and Andrew D. Weinberger for the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People, and by Jack Greenberg, James M. Nabrit III and Michael Meltsner for the N. A. A. C. P. Legal Defense & Educational Fund, Inc.

      T. W. Bruton, Attorney General, and Ralph Moody, Deputy Attorney General, filed a brief for the State of North Carolina, as amicus curiae, urging affirmance

      So it looks to me that your disparagement of Christians is based on what is essentially one half-truth and two whole lies.

      Now that would be bad in and of itself, but you also overlook the many positive contributions made by Christians.

      The abolition of slavery - Christian and churches drove the abolisionist movement. Perhaps you could start with this man:
            William Wilberforce - the story told in this wonderful movie: Amazing Grace, released in 2007
      Higher Education - Many of America's first colleges were formed by churches.
      Health Care - Many hospitals have been founded by churches, or with church backing.
      The Civil Right movement - Once again many churches were participants in the Civil Rights movement

      There are many more that could be added to that.

      Yeah, you Christians are really, really superior to other religions....

      Moving past the half-truth and falsehoods you wrote certainly seems to make for a better record to reflect upon.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    10. Re:Damn... by BCGlorfindel · · Score: 4, Informative

      wrong, get a refund on your history lessons, radical islam not responsible for Pakistan but rather push lead by All-India Muslim league which was concerned with rights for muslims and also by the way led in promoting the democratic process for Pakistan.

      only about 15 of the populace of Pakistan would be "radical" by any standard. The rest are "hippy muslims" that drink, smoke (and not just tobacco), watch porn, gamble etc.

      I'm not sure you are defining "radical" the same as we would in the western world. Does support for punishing blasphemy and apostasy with the death penalty count as "radical"?

      Shahbaz Bhatti was Pakistan's Minister for Minorities Affairs and he made his opposition to the blasphemy laws known, and he was assassinated in 2011.
      Salmaan Taseer was the Governor of Punjab and he made his opposition to the blasphemy laws known. He was assassinated by his own security guard once again in 2011.

      Now, before you declare that assassinations are often a fringe movement, lets look at the treatment of the guard that killed Taseer. Nearly 500 clerics praised the murder and called for a boycott of Taseer's funeral.

      Also take a close look at the blasphemy cases brought up regularly in Pakistan. Very often the accused don't make it to trial or execution before they killed by an angry mob, or while under police 'protection'.

      There are moderates in Pakistan that are opposed to the same radicals that we are. People like Sabeen Mahmud, Salmaan Taseer, Shabaz Bhati, and Benazir Bhutto all share many of our more moderate and tolerant views and values. The severity of the problems in Pakistan though are revealed in that same list as those moderates are increasingly ending up dead like EVERYONE in that list. We have survivors as well, like Malala Yousef, the young school girl shot in the face on her bus by the TTP. Of course, she is carying on from Britain right now because the TTP have sworn to finish her off should she return.

      Oh, and it should be noted that everyone on that list save Shabaz Bhati were muslims as well. The severity of the extremism in that ?15%? is staggering and I also seriously question that the percentage is fairly characterized as merely 15%.

  2. Tragic... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is truly a tragic death. I often hear a lot from people in our society (United States) is so aggressive and repressive towards women, which I greatly disagree with. Giving soap operas here about how horrible it is is a disgrace compared to those in places like the middle east, who endure credible death threats and the like everyday. I hope this lady will be remembered, and may her death not be in vain.

  3. Re:What could have been by westlake · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But then I saw the cat pictures.

    These were, of course, her own cat pictures. It is sometimes the most ordinary things in our lives that speak the loudest, if you are willing to listen.

  4. Remember Hypatia by catchblue22 · · Score: 5, Informative

    "Hypatia (born c. AD 350 – 370; died 415[1][3]) was a Greek mathematician, astronomer, and philosopher in Egypt, then a part of the Byzantine Empire. She was the head of the Neoplatonic school at Alexandria, where she taught philosophy and astronomy."

    "One day on the streets of Alexandria, Egypt, in the year 415 or 416, a mob of Christian zealots led by Peter the Lector accosted a woman’s carriage and dragged her from it and into a church, where they stripped her and beat her to death with roofing tiles. They then tore her body apart and burned it. Who was this woman and what was her crime? Hypatia was one of the last great thinkers of ancient Alexandria and one of the first women to study and teach mathematics, astronomy and philosophy. Though she is remembered more for her violent death, her dramatic life is a fascinating lens through which we may view the plight of science in an era of religious and sectarian conflict."

    I hate these islamic extremists at least as much as anyone here. But it isn't just islam that is capable of such things.

    --
    This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
    1. Re:Remember Hypatia by CronoCloud · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I sometimes think that Islam hasn't had it's version of "The Reformation" yet. In the west that somewhat reduced the power of religion compared to nation-states. But In "Islam-land" the Religion has more even MORE power than it does here.

      And they haven't learned that oppressing a gender makes them weak because they're not using all of their "human resources" at their disposal.

      Imagine if tomorrow women in the US were required to stay home and not have jobs....it would destroy the US economy very quickly.

    2. Re:Remember Hypatia by catchblue22 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Yes, Christians did that 1500 years ago.

      Muslims killed Sabeen Mahmud yesterday.

      Pray forgive me if I see the Muslims as a significantly larger threat.

      There are countless more recent examples I could have written about. However, Hypatia is in my opinion more relevant. Before 400AD or so, Roman and Greek society was based around classical foundations of rationalism and philosophy. Yes they worshipped gods, but there was tolerance for the worship of many different gods, and by extension tolerance for fundamentally different world-views. Classical civilization created great art, great philosophy, great mathematics, great architecture. We owe our systems of laws, of money, of art/drama to classical Greco-Roman civilization. And the fact that Greco-Roman civilization had flaws (e.g. slavery) does not change the greatness of what they accomplished.

      In the early-mid 300AD's Constantine came to power as emperor of the Roman empire. He made Christianity the state religion of the empire. Christianity spread like wildfire, snuffing out anything that opposed it. The instance I referred to earlier, Hypatia's murder, is commonly thought of as the end of the Classical Era. In Hypatia's school, it is possible that astronomers theorized that Earth travelled around the Sun. If an astronomer had thought this, the idea would have been discussed and possibly accepted. In the new christian world, to suggest an such an idea would be blasphemy and would result in the suggester being executed in some gruesome manner.

      The adoption of Christianity in as the state religion in Europe led to what is commonly known as the Dark Ages, a period of about 1000 years in which European civilization stagnated. Progress in the arts, in knowledge of the world (what we would call science), in philosophy largely came to a halt. Europeans largely forgot how to build great buildings. This era is thought to have begun to come to an end when European intellectuals began re-discovering Greco-Roman rationalism during the Renaissance, and is exemplified in Florence, when the architect Filippo Brunelleschi re-discovered Roman dome building techniques in order to build il Duomo.

      When I see these stone-age islamic fanatics trying to hack away at the edifice of modernity, I cannot help but thinking about what christianity did to European civilization during the Dark Ages. I also cannot help thinking of those in America who so resemble these stone-age fanatics, the christian dominionists and those who can best be described as the American taliban. If you think it is only muslims who are capable of fanaticism, you are fooling your self.

      --
      This and no other is the root from which a tyrant springs; when first he appears as a protector - Plato (423 to 327 BC)
  5. Re:No comments about SJWs yet? by SirLordGodfrey · · Score: 5, Insightful

    She wasn't a "SJW", she was actually trying to help effect change in an environment in which women are not only oppressed, but it is distinctly easily visible in most, if not all, walks of life in Pakistan (and other countries with an Islamic majority that isn't too opposed to Sharia law).

    SJW's are usually trust fund babies and well-off morons that got bored with collecting tangible things and began collecting stories of oppression as bling. They're charlatans and ideologues, profit mongers and zealots.

    Ms. Sabeen Mahmud was far closer to Mahatma Gandhi than any "Social Justice Warrior" (who often, without a shred of humility, compare themselves to Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., Mahatma Gandhi, Malcolm X, or hell (I've yet to see them mention her but she fought for women's rights) Theodora the Empress alongside Emperor Justinian I of the Byzantine Empire).

    Everyone lies sometimes, SJW's lie more often.

    --
    "Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
  6. Re:truly an inspiration. by blippo · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you don't care for what other people think or their interests, why would they care about your ideas and interest?

    Really intelligent people - those who are smart over the whole range, not just the logic puzzle part, are normally a delight to talk with.
    And although they might be smarter than you, and know more about the world, they generally do no tell you so.

  7. Re:truly an inspiration. by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    as it is for his followers to keep using those long out-dated moral standards from then in today's world.

    The problem is that a large portion of the world's population (that is, everyone who follows an Abrahamic religion, which is probably at least half the global population) does exactly this.

    That's the whole problem with these religions: they hold up these "holy books" as "the inerrant word of God", and claim that everyone should follow the moral standards contained in them.

  8. Re:truly an inspiration. by cfalcon · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think it's a generality to say that "neither Christians nor Jews do this". Certainly, Christians do this sort of thing at much lower rates.

    Jews? It's really ludicrous to even bring up the Jews. Jews don't exist. Numerically, that is.

    A third of the world is Christian, roughly. (50% Catholic, 40% Protestant, 10% other, including the Orthodox churches)

    A quarter of the world is Muslim, roughly (90% Sunni, 10% Shia)

    15% of the world is Hindu, roughly.

    Two tenths of a percent of the world is Jewish.

    That means for every Jew, there's over a hundred Christians, over a hundred Muslims, around seventy Hindus, thirty five Buddhists,

    There's more Sikhs than Jews. The Jews are roughly equal to the number of practitioners of Yoruba, and the Jewish number tends to include more non-religious folks than many of the other groups.

    So if all religions were equally likely to incite violence, you'd expect for most violence to be Christian, then you'd expect Muslim, then Hindu, the traditional Chinese practitioners, then Buddhists.... you'd have a long list to get to Jews.

    In practice, we hear more about Muslims than anyone, and we do hear about Christians some times. The fact that you don't hear about Jews doesn't mean anything- numerically, they don't exist. If you heard about Jewish violence at the same rate as you hear about Muslim violence, then the Jewish religion would be over a hundred times as violent or something. The fact that there's still some very violent strands of Islam that are extremely active right now is what makes the news, but seriously, Muslims as a group are so massive that it seems hard to make a comparison to billions based on the actions of thousands.

  9. Re:truly an inspiration. by currently_awake · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When your holy book says this is the word of God and these are the rules you shall live by, those outdated morals become a problem. We need to find a way to issue updates to the religions of the world. Continuing to use version 1.0 is causing compatibility issues.

  10. Re:truly an inspiration. by Grishnakh · · Score: 4, Insightful

    No, they aren't. Many of the "reformed" sects are the worst ones. All those fundamentalist Christians aren't part of the old Roman Catholic church (or any offshoots of it), they're offshoots of the Protestant movement. For all its faults, the Catholic church had a good idea, that just letting people read the Bible themselves and interpret it their own way would lead to all kinds of bad things, so they tried to keep people from doing that; the Protestant reformation is exactly what led to fundamentalism. Of course, the root problem is the whole idea that a book is "holy" and sacrosanct; trying to keep people from reading things for themselves is guaranteed to fail eventually.

    Anyway, probably at least 1/2 of Protestants in the US are evangelical and/or fundamentalist. Just look at how popular the "Left Behind" books are and various other wacky Christian media warning everyone of the "Rapture". Calling it a "small minority" is ignoring a very large and serious problem in our society, no different than Muslims ignoring their own extremists and then waking up one day to find that ISIS has taken over their city.

  11. Religion poisons everything by Qbertino · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Hitchens says it best:
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=...

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca