Unable To Hack Into Grading System, Georgia Student Torches Computer Lab

McGruber writes: A 15 year-old Douglas County, Georgia high school student has been charged with five felonies, including burglary and arson, after sheriff's deputies caught him while responding to a 1 AM fire at Alexander High School. The boy admitted to investigators that he set fire to a computer after trying, unsuccessfully, to hack into the school computer system to change his grade on a failed test. "It's very sad and tragic. He could have very easily come to one of his counselors and asked for help," said Lt. Glenn Daniel with the Douglas County Sheriff's Department. "From what we can tell, (the student) was mad and frustrated because he could not hack into the system." Lt. Daniel said the charges could land the young man in prison for several years. The computer lab was cleaned up and re-opened in time for the start of that day's classes.

Comments

Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

You gonna destroy the childs life because of a stupid mistake a child would make....

Re:Hahah

[ihtoit]

He did the crime (actually several), he must do the time.

If he wants to play big boy games then he must accept big boy penalties. Fuck your PC "Oh but he's a kid with his whole life ahead of him!" bullshit, he's chosen his path, let him reap the consequences.

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

Ruin a child life? Mistakes that a child do? Are you really that stupid? Kids (children) these days kill, rape and other things that were typical for adults. You screw up like an adult, screw them like an adult.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of rational human being does this? Did you try to set fire to your schools property because of a bad grade? I'll look past the B&E and unauthorized access.

He is dangerous, to himself and others. If not juvie, then a psych eval and treatment.

Re:Hahah

[Martin Spamer]

I find the Officers attitude refreshingly pragmatic and progressive and very untypical.

Re:Hahah

[dbIII]

The attitude sort of makes sense coupled with the weird sig - not being able to tell the difference between science and economics so not being able to make sense of juvenile versus adult criminal treatment goes with the territory.
Yes it's a personal attack but you wanted big boy games with consequences didn't you?

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

15 is not a child. A teenager is not a child.

Teenagers, while their brains are still developing, have (or at least should have, if they were taught and parented well) some sense of morals. If they do something like this, they deserve to be punished, maybe not quite as harshly as an adult, but certainly punished. And also, the brain doesn't fully develop until 25, so shouldn't 18-25 year olds also get some leniency?

And also stop this BS about "innocent little kids" getting "raped" when a 16 year old has sex with an adult. Claiming "some little jid got raped" is absolutely wrong. Same with when that 15 year old drank herself silly, passed out on the couch and got raped, and everyone claimed she was just a poor little kid. Well, she certainly wasn't behaving like a kid drinking like that!

End of rant.

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

And one more thing. Maybe if we stopped treating teens like kids by restricting them so much, they would behave more like adults. If we let them drink a little, maybe they wouldn't binge. If teen sex wasn't so taboo, maybe they'd practice safe sex habits (and maybe even not be as promiscuous). And so on. And same goes for adults with drugs.

A little trust goes a long way.

Re:Hahah

[ihtoit]

uh, what?

What has my sig to do with economics?

The shitbag in the article committed a crime. He should be punished.

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

But make sure both the parents get the same penalty as the kid.

Re:Hahah

[jellomizer]

Big boy games?
He was trying to change a high school grade?
He didn't realize it was harder to do it then it seems on TV, he probably thought he was some great hacker because he helped with a DDOS.
Then he got frustrated so he lit the computer on fire?

This doesn't sound like the actions of an adult. It sounds like the action of a standard undeveloped brain of a teenager.
Should he be punished. Yes, probably expelled from school, or in his case forced to take the year over again, and insure his transcripts for his high school tenure give him solid D-'s.

Re:Hahah

[MacTO]

This kid needs serious help. If serious help fails, they need to face punishment for their crime.

Consider: this is a premeditated crime, committed to accomplish a certain objective. It also reflects a series of mistakes, not a singular one, in order to reach that objective. It is not a prank to relieve boredom. It is not a singular mistake to get what they want. It is not a kid being a kid.

I'm not normally a fan of a heavy handed approach to punishing kids. Yet when a kid isn't acting like a kid, they do need to face the consequences.

Re:Hahah

[evorster]

Well, that's the criminal system for you. It just punishes wrongdoing without trying to fix the cause.

In all fairness, the kid's parents should be in jail with him, since they are responsible for their kids' actions, no?

If there were proper counseling and guidance enforced in a case like this, and removal from society if attitude adjustment is not proven by a trained psychologist after a set time, then things might improve. But, it's far more profitable to throw people in prison, I guess.

Re:Hahah

[dbIII]

Because it's a thing from 2007 from an economist FFS - so most scientists haven't even heard of it yet so of course such fringe stuff from left field gets ignored.

Re:Hahah

[smittyoneeach]

We must always prefer drugs and state intervention to failed approaches like, you know, parenting and involvement in a community of faith.

Re:Hahah

[drinkypoo]

He did the crime (actually several), he must do the time.

he obviously needs help, but how will putting him into a rape factory where criminals are hardened help society?

Re: Hahah

[amaurea]

Perhaps prison wouldn't be appropriate for an adult either, here? There is evidence that harsher punishment is counterproductive, increasing the chance of repeat crimes.

A 1999 study tested this assumption in a meta-analysis reviewing 50 studies dating back to 1958 involving a total of 336,052 offenders with various offenses and criminal istories. Controlling for risk factors such as criminal history and substance abuse, the authors assessed the relationship between length of time in prison and recidivism, and found that longer prison sentences were associated with a three percent increase in recidivism. Offenders who spent an average of 30 months in prison had a recidivism rate of 29%, compared to a 26% rate among prisoners serving an average sentence of 12.9 months. The authors also assessed the impact of serving a prison sentence versus receiving a community-based sanction. Similarly, being incarcerated versus recidivism.

This is especially pronounced for low-risk offenders.

Researchers also find an increased likelihood that lower-risk offenders will be more negatively affected by incarceration. Among low-risk offenders, those who spent less time in prison were 4% less likely to recidivate than low-risk offenders who served longer sentences. Thus, when prison sentences are relatively short, offenders are more likely to maintain their ties to family, employers, and their community, all of which promote successful reentry into society. Conversely, when prisoners serve longer sentences they are more likely to become institutionalized, lose pro-social contacts in the community, and become removed from legitimate opportunities, all of which promote recidivism.

If one goes to the step of imprisoning people, then the prisons that perform best when it comes to low risk of preventing future crimes are ones like this one.

Re:Hahah

[dbIII]

The shitbag in the article committed a crime. He should be punished.

At an adult prison? The experts seem to think locking kids up in adult prisons is a very stupid idea, hence my focus on your stupid luddite sig pretending that experts are not experts which seems to indicate that very stupid ideas have found fertile soil.

Re: Hahah

[Opportunist]

Funny enough, if he actually HAD screwed like an adult, he'd probably be in trouble with the law now, too...

Re:Hahah

[Opportunist]

Someone fucking up on a test, then having the bright idea of "hacking" a computer (when obviously having no skill whatsoever to do so), then lighting the computer on fire without either considering that this will not accomplish anything nor having the sense to know that this fire might not be limited to the computer but may spread...

If that are the actions of a rational adult, ... Ok, it's the US, I withdraw my argument.

Re:Hahah

[tomhath]

Just because the cop said he faces charges that could result in prison time doesn't mean he's going to prison.

If (as you seem to think) he is a poor misguided child who displayed bad judgement on this one occasion, he will certainly be given counseling and probation.

On the other hand, if he's a thug who has already been arrested several times and has shown no indication of improved behavior after the usual help provided to first and second offenders, there isn't much else that can be done besides keep him away from the rest of society

Re:Hahah

[GuB-42]

Probably more than you might think. I did have ideas of burning stuff for trivial matters when I was a kid, many of my friends did and one of them acted it (thankfully, he was unsuccessful). A good thing that starting a fire is not that easy and that kids are not too dedicated...

15 is a bit too old for that shit though.

Re:Hahah

[Eunuchswear]

Splendid, and you will pay the absurd amounts of money necessary to keep him shuttling between the courts, prison and probation for the rest of his life.

American justice -- the second biggest demonstration of the broken window fallacy since Operation Iraqi Freedom.

Re:Hahah

[Dog-Cow]

Right. An adult would get jealous that his GF looked at another guy and proceed to beat the crap out of said other guy. You have a really warped view of "adult" behaviour, compared to your average teenager.

Re:Hahah

[jbmartin6]

There is a reason we call them "children" and don't let them drive cars, play with knives, etc. Should every toddler spend the night in jail for jaywalking? The real problem is that any line that defines adulthood is an arbitrary one. Some kids are mature enough at twelve, others are not even at twenty.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

Lol, it was probably the pressure and involvement of his parents that he felt compelled to do this.

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

Since he was unsuccessful, I don't think there was any unauthorized access.

Re:Hahah

[rvw]

Splendid, and you will pay the absurd amounts of money necessary to keep him shuttling between the courts, prison and probation for the rest of his life.

American justice -- the second biggest demonstration of the broken window fallacy since Operation Iraqi Freedom.

How is this the second biggest demonstration of failed politics? This is clearly bigger. The failed justice system in the US is a far bigger problem - in the US - than the war in Iraq.

Re: Hahah

[rvw]

Ruin a child life? Mistakes that a child do? Are you really that stupid? Kids (children) these days kill, rape and other things that were typical for adults. You screw up like an adult, screw them like an adult.

Well except this kid didn't murder, didn't rape.

And he didn't screw up like an adult, he screwed up as a kid!

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree, he should have learned right from wrong long before the age of 15, and that wrong actions have unpleasant consequences.

Oh, and Politically Correct=Mentally Challenged!

Re:Hahah

[smittyoneeach]

Absolutely. Gotta blame the parents and the church.

Re:Hahah

[Ramze]

I think jellomizer was referring to the fact that hormonal adolescents who do not yet have a fully formed prefrontal cortex have a much higher incidence of indulging in risky, violent, and/or unwise behavior as compared to fully grown adults due to the fact that they lack both the experience and the actual brain grey matter to fully think things through which would help inhibit such adolescent behavior. That does not excuse such behavior, but it does not mean we should treat children as if they were adults who generally have a better ability to control and channel their emotions.

I'm unsure why you believe "adult behavior" is on par with teenage adolescent behavior simply because adults can and do engage in similar behaviors (though it is worth noting that often when adults do this sort of thing, their judgement is impaired by alcohol or drugs which puts them into a more uninhibited mental state similar to juveniles). Psychologists would strongly disagree with you if you're making the case that adults and teenagers have the same incidence of such behavior.

You don't treat a 5 year old like you would a 12 year old... nor a 12 year old like a 16 year old. Even still, one should not treat a 15 year old like an 18 or 21 year old.

Personally, I say send the boy to counseling and to juvenile detention, make the family pay restitution. Wipe his record and seal it when he turns 18 so he can have a normal life. Maybe he'll make better decisions when his brain is fully formed and learn from his mistakes. Maybe not. Giving him a felony record and shoving him in a state prison with hardened felons is not great way to reform this child. It may just turn him into a lifetime criminal with new criminal connections and no job prospects due to his record.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

You gonna destroy the childs life because of a stupid mistake a child would make....

I hope the prosecutor throws the book at the student and sends a SIGTERM message to every wannabe "hacker" who gets upset when they don't study and fail a test at school. The Computer Fraud and Abuse Act (CFAA US) should be enough to send the punk to Club Gitmo which President Obama failed to shutdown despite campaigning to do so. May a thousand /dev/nulls plague the 15-year old student.

CAPTCHA: acquit (no way in Hell!)

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope you one day become a parent, and everything is going fine, kid is good. Then one day, in a split second, he makes a poor decision, and YOU get to spend the rest of your life in prison for it.

Re:Hahah

[alvinrod]

I don't know anything about the kid (other than he's stupid and impulsive enough to try something like this) but locking him up won't make anything better in the long run. When he gets out the only thing he'll be able to do is crime and he'll probably have met plenty of other enterprising individuals who can give him some tips.

All we're really doing is setting this individual up to be a lifelong drain on society.

I'd rather see massive amounts of community service to repay the debt he owes to society. I don't know what this individual's home life is like, and I can't imagine it's great given what he's done, but his punishment should be get an education and then work his ass off to pay for what he's done. No sports, no video games, and no screwing around.

He might not like it, but I suspect he has at least a small chance of turning out to be a decent person and contributing to society if the second approach is followed.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

They were fortunate in this case that the fire didn't spread further and result in casualties. If a janitor or firefighter had died dealing with the fire, would you be saying the same thing?

In this case they are simply charges, the courts will decide what punishment will actually be tendered.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

We could give him big boy penalties and sentence him harshly. He will probably continue to struggle in these situations because he has not learnt how to deal with them. He will probably end up re offending in some way or limiting his own potential in some way.

Or you could rehabilitate him and teach him how to deal with these situations. He can then learn to grow into a better functioning member of society and give back to the community.

Re:Hahah

[Guy From V]

I prefer drugs to state intervention.

Re:Hahah

[gnasher719]

Arson isn't a stupid mistake. Arson can kill people. Whenever arson happens, there might be people at the place that is put on fire, who might die. Whenever arson happens, firefighters put themselves into danger. Even if nobody gets killed or hurt, huge damage can happen. A fifteen year old can understand these things.

Re: Hahah

[Nemyst]

The thing is, being "tough on crime" isn't about rehabilitating the convicts, it's about making the jailers feel good about themselves.

Re: Hahah

[russotto]

This whole "brain is still developing stuff" is utter nonsense anyway. You know when your brain stops developing? Death, that's when. For some reason our society has chosen to infantilize young adults, and then for some reason we're surprised when they act irresponsibly.
 

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

Given his age, it's very unlikely he'd be in prison, even if convicted of a felony. Been there, done that. Teen facilities are typically heavily monitored, much more heavily staffed, and try very hard to provide educational and psychiatric and family guidance assistance to help keep the kids from returning. It takes *work* to commit rape in a facility like that. I was a spoiled white kid, and *belonged* in juvie for a while for the stunts I was doing. I got worse before I got better, but I had no sense of *scale* of what life was like outside of, effectively, my mom's basement. Getting stuck there a few times did help, and helped get the system more aware of my home nuttiness so I could become an emancipated minor.

The emancipated minor status did make college admissions weird: it's difficult to report your parental income in such circumstances, and I was very glad that my "juvenile record" effectively disappeared when I was 18.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

If 'hormonal' was a legitimate concern in this then we'd excuse women from criminal culpability one week out of four and from the age of 45 on to around 55.

Re:Hahah

[cptdondo]

So presumably you're willing to pay the $400,000 or so it will cost to keep him in jail "for several years" plus the inevitable public aid, unemployment benefits, food stamps, etc for the rest of his life?

Or would you rather pay a few thousand for counseling and public service monitoring?

Fuck your "lock 'em up" mindset. We already incarcerate more people in this country than any other civilized nation, and it serves no purpose whatsoever other than to fuck up peoples' lives and costs us, the taxpayers, millions of dollars.

But that's what we get when we make the justice system a for-profit operation.

Re:Hahah

[tompaulco]

Splendid, and you will pay the absurd amounts of money necessary to keep him shuttling between the courts, prison and probation for the rest of his life.

American justice -- the second biggest demonstration of the broken window fallacy since Operation Iraqi Freedom.

So what are the alternatives? Shoot him? Or set him free with a book of matches and some printer paper?

Re:Hahah

[Eunuchswear]

Splendid, and you will pay the absurd amounts of money necessary to keep him shuttling between the courts, prison and probation for the rest of his life.

American justice -- the second biggest demonstration of the broken window fallacy since Operation Iraqi Freedom.

So what are the alternatives? Shoot him? Or set him free with a book of matches and some printer paper?

Slight failure of imagination on your part there.

Re:Hahah

[nbauman]

He did the crime (actually several), he must do the time.

If he wants to play big boy games then he must accept big boy penalties. Fuck your PC "Oh but he's a kid with his whole life ahead of him!" bullshit, he's chosen his path, let him reap the consequences.

The former Soviet Union, China, and the US have the largest prison population in the world.

So rather than being PC you would rather that we follow the example of the former Communist countries. You have an unusual view of what makes a good society.

Re:Hahah

[Z00L00K]

That wasn't a stupid mistake, it was purely intentional with malice.

I wouldn't be surprised if that kid is a psychopath. An extensive mental analysis is necessary.

Re:Hahah

[Livius]

You gonna destroy the childs life because of a stupid mistake a child would make....

You gonna destroy an adult's life because of a stupid mistake an adult would make? That's what the criminal justice system is *supposed* to do.

Re:Hahah

[fahrbot-bot]

Did you try to set fire to your schools property because of a bad grade?

According to TFS he set fire to the computer because he was , "mad and frustrated because he could not hack into the system." I'm not condoning his actions, but who amongst us hasn't, at least, entertained the idea of destroying a computer after simply trying to *use* it? I have bad thoughts about my Windows 7 desktop at work all... the... time. And to quote the movie "Office Space," "PC LOAD LETTER!!? What the fuck does that mean?" - didn't work out so well for that printer, did it?

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

If not juvie, then a psych eval and treatment

Juvie!?!?!??!?!?

Psych Eval!?!?!??!?!?

Son -- this here is A-MARE-EEEEEEE-KUH we're going to throw him in prison where he will hopefully be raped repeatedly and maybe join a gang and get some tattoos.

That's what Prison is

That's what Justice is

That's what AMERICA is

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

So if an adult acted like a child, then they get sentenced as a child? You are a fucking idiot.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

If it means he'll be repeatedly beaten and raped in prison -- then yes!
That's justice, it's what we do to criminals in America.
Don't like it? Then stay the fuck out of our country, you criminal loving socialist

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd say this incident has more in common with a kid throwing his controller at the TV after losing in a video game.

But yeah, agreed, the kid needs to see consequences for his bad behavior. Fail the class and do community service, plus pay for damages (perhaps as a byproduct of the community service).

Some psychological help might be needed too--A 15-year-old should not be throwing tantrums. Perhaps the parenting was poor, though...

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

he should burn the church down next

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

Get stuffed, you nation-wrecking idiot. LONGER prison sentences prevent crime, by the simple fact that the rest of society is free from the criminal for longer. By 'the rest of society', I mean the people who get up at 6.30 every week day in order to work, and who then have their money stolen from them by the government to PAY for the criminal shits among us to live in FREE housing, and to have FREE food, and FREE schooling for their violent, fucked up children, and FREE healthcare so they can produce yet more fucked up criminals...

How about we split the country into two parts, and you can live in the part with no prisons in it? Guess which part ALL of the criminals will move to? YOUR shitty little part. You cretin.

Re: Hahah

[nbauman]

Perhaps prison wouldn't be appropriate for an adult either, here? There is evidence that harsher punishment is counterproductive, increasing the chance of repeat crimes.

Yes, the reason for that is that putting criminals together, and putting minor offenders together with major offenders, socializes them in the ways of crime. They teach each other how to commit crimes. They get sent away for small-time pot dealing and learn how to steal cars and burglarize buildings.

There used to be some well-run juvenile correction centers that actually did work. My friend's brother wound up in one of them. They taught him to read, they taught him a trade (carpentry).

Unfortunately most of those places have been replaced by what amounts to torture chambers run like prisons by sadistic guards. It's the fault of both Democratic and Republican conservatives. It's mostly Republicans, but I can't let Bill Clinton off the hook. http://www.theguardian.com/us-... Tax cuts have eliminated the budgets. Here's the umpteenth expose of the juvenile justice system, by the Chicago Tribune http://www.chicagotribune.com/... That's Rahm Emanuel's territory. At one group home, the staff was billing for "television therapy" when the kids watched movies on TV.

One of the problems is that the American people have turned mean-spirited without compassion or concern for those who are having problems, as demonstrated by some of the posts here. If these people take over, America isn't going to be a very good place to live.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

But no one did die. How about the next time you receive a minor traffic infraction, like getting over without looking (which I acknowledge is dangerous), you get charged AS IF it had caused a fatal crash? That sounds good right?

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't disagree with you about not locking this kid up (especially not for a long time), BUT I don't think many ex cons are getting unemployment. You have to work for months before you are eligible and not be fired for circumstances you control. Food stamps, yes. What OTHER public aid are you talking about?

Re:Hahah

[Gryle]

Obviously the kid is not a rational actor (most human beings aren't but we're quite good at lying to ourselves in that respect), but I wonder what made this seem like a good idea to him. I'm not excusing his behavior by any means, but what external factors lead him to believe that 1) this was an acceptable action and 2) a failing grade was serious enough to warrant this action.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sorry but arson is not just some trivial mistake that a child would make. This little shit ought to be shot.

Re:Hahah

[n3r0.m4dski11z]

What kind of rational human being does this?

A good parable, very short, for why we should not condemn the youth. Moral: We were the youth.

http://www.newyorker.com/magaz...

If I didn't smarten up when I was a dumb teen I would be in jail too. I think the same is true for lots of fully functioning, well adjusted people that you know and deal with everyday.

"I could blame adolescence, or point to the arm of science that claims that a young manâ(TM)s brain is dominated by impulse and adrenaline rather than by reason or conscience. Also, most of the bad things I did started with a drink. But allow me to simplify: I was a boy and I was having fun."

Re:Hahah

[hey!]

He did the crime (actually several), he must do the time.

If he wants to play big boy games then he must accept big boy penalties. Fuck your PC "Oh but he's a kid with his whole life ahead of him!" bullshit, he's chosen his path, let him reap the consequences.

That's just a straw man argument. The actual problem with treating him as an adult is that that is contrary to fact. He is not an adult.

In the state of Georgia a fifteen year-old cannot vote; he cannot purchase liquor; cannot obtain a driver's license, cannot hold a full-time job. The rules we have for minors assume they're incapable of making adult choices. It's logically inconsistent to believe minors are not competent to make responsible decisions, but then claim we should treat them as if they can decide responsibly because they've failed to do so. When have you ever used reasoning like that for anything else? I had a housemate once who decided to become her own herbalist. She went to the herb store and bought a lot of herbal shit and promptly made herself sick. By your logic I should go to her for medical treatment because (a) I previously had reason to believe she was not competent to practice medicine and (b) her subsequent actions proved my suspicions correct.

You don't need some namby-pamby PC mumbo jumbo to know that most teenagers have a penchant for doing spectacularly stupid things, but that *most* of them grow out it. That's common sense, and the law should take that into account. And science actually backs up common sense here. Most people's brains go through a development spurt in their "executive functions" (acting according to long term plans, inhibiting impulsive actions, directing attention) when they're around fifteen. That means there's roughly a 50/50 chance someone under sixteen is neurologically incapable of not acting like a jackass.

So both science and common sense tell us that treating children as if they were adults is irrational and serves no useful purpose. That doesn't mean you do nothing when kids commit crimes. That's a false dichotomy. It means you do something different.

Re:Hahah

[davester666]

He's 15, so clearly he must be convicted and sentenced as an adult. That way, he can be rehabilitated, instead of just coddled in juvenile detention.

Re: Hahah

[hey!]

Yours apparently has some way to go. Or maybe it's too far gone.

The brain isn't one big ball of mush. It has different parts that perform different functions. You get injured in your Broca's area and you won't be able speak or write. I've seen it in stroke patients; it doesn't matter that the rest of their brains is just good as new, they don't have any expressive language. Likewise if your orbital frontal cortex is damaged or not fully developed yet, you're going to act like an ass. Doesn't matter how smart or well-meaning you are.

Teenaged brains can be misleading, because in some ways they're at their lifetime peak. But at the same time they suck at certain things. A smart fifteen year-old can explain the difference between right and wrong, between a smart and stupid action. But he can't be trusted to act in accordance to that kind of knowledge, because among other things the OFC isn't finished yet. This is why parents get fooled into thinking their wonderful children won't do dumb things. You simply cannot expect a teenager to act intelligently because he has knowledge. The knowledge helps, but it does't determine behavior in a fifteen year-old as it does in a thirty year-old.

Re:Hahah

[slashmydots]

Teenagers don't have properly functioning frontal lobes so they're practically incapable of planning future consequences of their actions the same way an adult or a 10 year old can. That said, usually selfish, cheating, douchebag teenagers grow up to be unsuccessful, annoying assholes so they might as well get him started with jail now instead of later.

Re:Hahah

[goingToSay]

What if the kid's teacher was being unfair or abusive? What if his single mom works three jobs and couldn't give him a ride to school on the day of an exam. Maybe the kid felt like he had no other option. Or maybe the kid its just a kid being stupid... Adults often do worse

Re:Hahah

[cptdondo]

Seriously? With a criminal record, he's unlikely to be able to get a full time, long-term job. So he will bounce from one short term job to the next, filling the gaps with unemployment.

Further, he's probably likely to commit more crimes, even if petty crimes like drug use, so he will cost you and me in police time, court time, jail time. And he's more likely to get busted for those petty crimes since he will be living in high-crime, high police areas; whereas a rich kid would not be busted for simple possession a poor kid with no job will be.

Then there's the predictable drain on social services, subsidized housing, and so on.

It is far, far cheaper to pay for this kid's college at an Ivy League school than it is to send him to jail.

That's the part that the "law and order" "lock 'em up and throw away the key" nutjobs fail to understand.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

Trying to burn down a building doesn't sound like the actions of a child to me.
Don't know what kind of psycho kids they have in the US though.
When I was a kid my "vandalizing" consisted of painting burned buildings (that were going to be removed) or buildings that were going to be painted over in the next couple of days.
I never lit anything on fire in anger, or did any kind of damage that could easily have led to someones death, or permanent disfigurement.
And this was when I was 8, never mind 15.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

If I don't have to pay to keep all the potheads in prison, sure.
Arson is not a victimless crime.
At some point kids have to learn that actions have consequences.
If you just let it slide all the time they'll never learn personal responsibility.
Then they will burn down the entire school and blame their parents or some shit.

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

So does that mean I'm super special because I never tried to burn down my school?
Neither did any of my friends. Maybe american kids are just stupid?
Or maybe treating kids like nothing they do has consequences, and they are just kids, gives them the impression that actions don't have consequences and they can do whatever they feel like because the worst that will happen is that their parents will be annoying for a few hours and nag them about some unimportant stuff that could have happened.

Re:Hahah

[ihtoit]

citation needed.

the actual source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F... which is from 2001, written by a statistician not an economist.

Re:Hahah

[ihtoit]

I'd've thought the answer would be obvious: for the safety of the public at large.

Re:Hahah

[ihtoit]

this is why they should show videos in schools of kids getting wiped out when jaywalking. If they don't take the example from that and start to take personal responsibility for their own safety then it can only be good for the gene pool

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

So I guess we should just send all the murderers and rapists to Ivy League schools since it's cheaper than keeping them in jail.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

We must sacrifice Americans to protect America, right? When any member of the Public can be subjected to harsh and undue sentencing, only then will the Public (at large) be safe.

Re: Hahah

[hey!]

And you're telling me you and your friends never did anything stupid? When you were 15 you were as sober as a 30 year-old?

Or maybe treating kids like nothing they do has consequences,

This is what is called a false dichotomy. You don't treat kids like adults who have misbehaved; you treat kids like kids who have misbehaved. Or do you think that a 12 year-old who starts a fire playing with matches should be treated like a 40 year who starts a fire playing with matches, because in the end they did the same thing?

What I'm saying is take the age of the offender into account in how you punish them. This isn't some kind of radical new liberal idea. It's how this country operated until the end of the 20th C.

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're so jealous of prisoners' living conditions, why not join them? It's not difficult in the US.

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

When I was a child I set fire to school just because :) it was all the reason we needed back then.

Re: Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would we ever prefer faith to anything?

How absurd!

Re:Hahah

[TapeCutter]

[Parents] are responsible for their kids' actions, no?

No, but they are usually on the hook for the bill.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

... come to one of his counselors and asked for help ...

What facilities does the local county offer its troubled children? I don't want to blame the school, but they don't provide individualized care and attention.

... let him reap the consequences ...

Like never having a job or student loan because criminals have no rights, ever! This is the USA where one is punished for life over past felonies. If Americans want to pay for 15 or 25 years of imprisonment, fine, but don't pretend the consequences end at "tough on crime". Such life-long consequences discourage trust and support of the system that punishes them..

Re: Hahah

[smittyoneeach]

Your faith in the regulatory state must remain beyond reproach.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously? With a criminal record, he's unlikely to be able to get a full time, long-term job. So he will bounce from one short term job to the next, filling the gaps with unemployment.

That's why the real solution is just to make these all capital crimes. If the goal is to get these people to stop being a drain on society, whether by destroying or stealing other people's property, or by being so incompetent at life to require continuous government handouts, then just string them all up. Stack them like cordwood in cemeteries built on the remnants of the prisons they replace and let healthy, law-abiding citizens live in peace. Arson? Hanging. Armed robbery? Hanging. DUI? Hanging.

Re:Hahah

[sjames]

I'm guessing it was his amygdala.

Re:Hahah

[sjames]

No, it wasn't premeditated. He premeditated changing his grade on the computer but failed. The fire thing was a spur of the moment act of frustration and fear for the consequences of a bad grade. He was acting exactly like a kid.

Let's say we treat him like an adult as you suggest and he gets 2 years. So, there he is, 17 years old and out, sentence served. Naturally, he should be served alcohol on request since he is an adult, right? Naturally, he'll be able to vote, being an adult and all.

Here's a question for you, what should happen if an adult acts like a kid? Do we try them as a minor?

Re:Hahah

[Zero__Kelvin]

Don't be confused into thinking you are insightful just because a few morons modded you up.

There may well be issues at hand that you don't quite grasp. And by "may well", I mean "definately are"

Hell ... for all you know someone spiked his afternoon tea with LSD. Do you think you might want to take a step back in think again?

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, switch topics much? I was in Iraq, and I say that you should stop giving a fuck-all about that country and start making the USA something worth defending again.

Eight years in and I hear that we can't make our Country a better place to live because we have to worry about external wars! As undesirable as it is, external wars occur, and are likely to occur again; however, if you think idealists like myself are going to keep lining up to fight them when you're willing to let injustice turn into intolerance within our borders, then you're providing the proof I did the right thing to get out.

It used to mean something to be a citizen of the United States of America. It was both a priviledge and an obligation. We are meant to be the shining star of hope and decency, a grand experiment that government by the people doesn't always turn into Greece's abomination of Democracy (where the masses continually voted away the property and lives of their betters).

Don't tell me that we are just vengeful spiteful haters who are willing to kick a fifteen year old boy with incarceration when all he needs is a stable home and family counselling, which would cost a lot less than the incarceration anyway.

"Crown thy good with brotherhood" Don't you forget it! That's some brotherhood you practice. We are both really lucky that there's an Internet between us, as honestly, I can't fucking stand that you used my time abroad in a war to justify your shitty position.

Re:Hahah

[Darinbob]

But if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. Catch-22.

Re:Hahah

[Anonymous Coward]

to be fair, the US one dwarfs the other 2

Re:Hahah

[bingoUV]

It (Cygnus atratus) is a million years old, or more.

Re:Hahah

[ilsaloving]

I'm not sure what PC stuff you're talking about. The kid clearly has issues. Your comment is a completely unnecessary, and downright silly, attempt at taking a stab at the left.

That being said, based on current societal values (ie: What society actionably treats as acceptable, rather than what they *say* is acceptable) I think the only thing wrong is that he got caught. Had he succeeded, he would have made an excellent CEO.

Re:Hahah

[ihtoit]

ask then answer: do you want to wake up with your bed on fire?

Re:Hahah

[Desty]

He did the crime (actually several), he must do the time.

If he wants to play big boy games then he must accept big boy penalties. Fuck your PC "Oh but he's a kid with his whole life ahead of him!" bullshit, he's chosen his path, let him reap the consequences.

This medieval attitude is one reason why the US has the biggest prison population in the world and one of, if not the worst rates of recidivism.

What this kid needs is some help, not "big boy penalties", a.k.a. incarceration and a lifelong criminal record which marks him as "different" from normal people in a way that affects him negatively for the rest of his life. Stop doing that.

Re:Hahah

[Desty]

What kind of rational human being does this? Did you try to set fire to your schools property because of a bad grade? I'll look past the B&E and unauthorized access.

He is dangerous, to himself and others. If not juvie, then a psych eval and treatment.

He's a kid, not a rational human being. He needs emotional help, like lots of kids (and sadly, lots of adults). Do you honestly think he'll get that help by being thrown in "juvie", excluded and shunned from normal society?

Re:Hahah

[jellomizer]

He tried to burn the computer (As a lame attempt to delete the evidence)

Insult to injury...

[Anonymous Coward]

The computer lab was cleaned up and re-opened in time for the start of that day's classes.

Just not this kid's day... First he fails his test, then he fails to hack into the grading system before finally failing to burn down the computer lab.

Re:Insult to injury...

[ihtoit]

there's a "yo mama" in there somewhere.

"Yo mama so dumb, she failed a pregnancy test!"

Re:Insult to injury...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not his kid's life. He is too stupid to realize that deleting a computer is not the same as deleting his test score.

Re:Insult to injury...

[stephanruby]

"It's very sad and tragic. He could have very easily come to one of his counselors and asked for help," said Lt. Glenn Daniel with the Douglas County Sheriff's Department.

My high school counselor would have just told me to set the keyboard on fire. That was the extent of her hacking skills.

I don't think that would have helped.

lol @ aspies

[Anonymous Coward]

what a shame our justice system is skewed towards neurotypical criminals!!!

One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

Better question: What kind of kid who at least *thinks* he might be capable of hacking the school's system wouldnt be aware of cloud storage/backup? Clearly setting a fire would do nothing to cloud stored data.

Re:One word: Cloud

[CrimsonAvenger]

Let's assume he's managed to live in a world where the subject of cloud storage/backup never once reached the level of awareness.

So, what kind of dolt thinks that the grades are stored on machines in the school's computer lab???

Or was he burning down the lab in a fit or pique because his awesome computer skills weren't enough to deal with the grades being stored on a machine he had no access to?

Re:One word: Cloud

[jbmartin6]

Cloud storage? He didn't seem to understand the idea of client/server. He just knew the file was "in" the computer.

Re:One word: Cloud

[rvw]

Better question: What kind of kid who at least *thinks* he might be capable of hacking the school's system wouldnt be aware of cloud storage/backup? Clearly setting a fire would do nothing to cloud stored data.

In the western world we know that children think and reason differently, don't oversee all consequences of their actions, and because of that we try them differently, in juvenile court. A 15 year old who did not perform on a test, panics and does something stupid. Panic means: no reasoning, no oversight, and the existence of backups is totally forgotten, even if he knows about it.

In the US there is a tendency to try more children as adults, especially when the crime is big, like murder. This is the general tendency resulting from rage and frustration when people are not satisfied with their own situation, and they need someone to blame. They need a black sheep.

This is not a big crime. If the school burnt down, if someone died, that would have been something else. It could have, but it didn't. It's the same when you stab someone with a knife. If two people do this to two victims, stab them in a similar way, and one dies, the other not, the sentences will be different, although intentions and acts in this (imaginative) case are similar.

Nobody was hurt, the next day it was business as usual. So give this kid a reasonable sentence for the damage done, and let him have a chance to see his error and learn from it. The lesson should be that he was lucky that this didn't turn into something really big. Next time his luck may change, and this experience may hold him back then. Send him to prison for seven years and he will come out as a wreck or as a professional criminal. Who wants that?

Re:One word: Cloud

[dabadab]

What kind of kid who at least *thinks* he might be capable of hacking the school's system wouldnt be aware of cloud storage/backup?

Dunning and Kruger wants to have a word with you.
Basically it comes down to this: it is exactly the kid who is not aware of cloud storage (and is pretty clueless about computers in general) is the kind who thinks he might hack the school's computer.

Re:One word: Cloud

[YrWrstNtmr]

Nobody was hurt, the next day it was business as usual. So give this kid a reasonable sentence for the damage done, and let him have a chance to see his error and learn from it. The lesson should be that he was lucky that this didn't turn into something really big. Next time his luck may change, and this experience may hold him back then. Send him to prison for seven years and he will come out as a wreck or as a professional criminal. Who wants that?

And we out here have zero idea of what his actual sentence will be. Yes, the max penalties for his felonies add up to 'years'. Will he actually get consecutive, max duration, penalty for each of them? Highly doubtful.
This, of course, depends on any past interaction with the legal system. If he is a repeat offender, then yes, he may well get the max. Otherwise, probably not.

Re:One word: Cloud

[gweihir]

It is also this type of person who wil continue to be a problem as self-image and actual capabilities do not match at all.

Re:One word: Cloud

[sribe]

It's NOT trying to burn the school down. That's the act of an adult, 15 years old or not.

But he DID NOT try to burn the school down. He did something stupid and childish, which could have burned the school down only if he had been extremely unlucky--huge difference, and judgmental pricks like you who like to conflate what "could have happened" with what "he tried to do" in order to justify your self-righteous and indignant attitudes, who are responsible for the epidemic of ridiculous zero-tolerance policies in schools.

Re:One word: Cloud

[tompaulco]

Better question: What kind of kid who at least *thinks* he might be capable of hacking the school's system wouldnt be aware of cloud storage/backup? Clearly setting a fire would do nothing to cloud stored data.

He must be the kind of student who took a high school computer class. Back in the stone age, when I took computers in high school, they taught you how to program (well, I already knew, but they taught SOME people how). Now, they teach people how to illegally download games, movies and music from the internet. After my stepson took the high school computer course and got an A, he had to ask me what program he should use to write a report on the computer. But he knows how get hold of movies that are still in theaters and get games for free.

Re:One word: Cloud

[tompaulco]

And we out here have zero idea of what his actual sentence will be. Yes, the max penalties for his felonies add up to 'years'. Will he actually get consecutive, max duration, penalty for each of them? Highly doubtful. This, of course, depends on any past interaction with the legal system. If he is a repeat offender, then yes, he may well get the max. Otherwise, probably not.

If he has not history, he will probably be released on probation.

Re:One word: Cloud

[drooling-dog]

I would agree with you, but what we have here is an opportunity to demonstrate our upstanding character to our peers by venting self-righteousness against someone of lesser moral virtue. Before you know it, we'll be arguing over which method of execution is most appropriate, and whether the boy's family ought to be punished as well. No punishment will be quite harsh enough to quench our indignation over what this evil, horrible boy has done. We're an angry mob, and we want everyone to see it because we imagine that it makes us look virtuous. It's the American Way.

Re:One word: Cloud

[William Baric]

He's 15, not 3. At this age, the only which could make him do stupid things is either drugs or sex. That kid has obvious mental health problems or a personality disorder. He WILL commit other crimes.

Re:One word: Cloud

[michael_rendier]

I would agree with you, but what we have here is an opportunity to demonstrate our upstanding character to our peers by venting self-righteousness against someone of lesser moral virtue. Before you know it, we'll be arguing over which method of execution is most appropriate, and whether the boy's family ought to be punished as well. No punishment will be quite harsh enough to quench our indignation over what this evil, horrible boy has done. We're an angry mob, and we want everyone to see it because we imagine that it makes us look virtuous. It's the American Way.

I don't think that I could have said this any better myself...

Re:One word: Cloud

[nbauman]

That depends on whether he's black or white, and on whether his parents can afford to hire a good lawyer or he has to depend on a court-appointed public defender.

Re:One word: Cloud

[Livius]

What kind of kid who at least *thinks* he might be capable of hacking the school's system wouldnt be aware of cloud storage/backup?

A kid much better informed as to how antiquated his school's computers are than you are.

Re:One word: Cloud

[Livius]

A fifteen-year-old cannot be expected to think through the long-term consequences of his actions the same as an adult, but a fifteen-year-old is perfectly well aware that tampering with grades and arson are wrong and are actions that will be punished.

It's not all or nothing. He can get some leniency because of his age but neither he nor society would benefit from pretending he could not understand what he was doing.

Re:One word: Cloud

[bigfinger76]

So we can all assume that you're what, all of 14 (or younger)? Because you've obviously never been 15 before.

Re:One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

next let's get rid of the illusion that most adults are cabable of reason

Re:One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

I am sorry, but ADULTS are rarely capable of thinking through the long-term consequences of their actions. Once you are over 13, you are a getting to adulthood. Most other countries and even ours just 4 generations ago saw such folks as adults. I am not saying that the kid should be tried as an adult but lets try him for the crimes he committed and take into consideration that he can be easily rehabilitated for a very long-term benefit to society.

Re:One word: Cloud

[mysidia]

A 15 year old who did not perform on a test, panics and does something stupid. Panic means: no reasoning, no oversight, and the existence of backups is totally forgotten, even if he knows about it.

Or such and such student figured that destroying the computer lab would also wipe out the records of his "All Fs" report card that he couldn't change by hacking, and he made a "rational choice" on the basis, that even if he would be caught, he anticipated being treated leniently because he was a child, and he knows that children get off lightly, And also nothing to lose, since he wouldn't graduate anyways with all those Fs.

Re:One word: Cloud

[X0563511]

The charges could put him in jail for 7 years. That's up to the judge to decide, the officers are not responsible for that. (I'll couple that with my opinion that mandatory minimum sentences is the legislature interfering with the judiciary and executive branches, and needs to go away)

Re:One word: Cloud

[YrWrstNtmr]

Oh jebus. It's not that cut and dried. 15 years ago, a boyfriend of one of my daughters got busted for pot. He was 15 or 16. Black kid, from a far below living wage single mother family. In Redneckistan Virginia.
You know what happened to him? The cop brought him to my house (mom was out of town, I think). "Sir...would you take responsibility for this dude?" 'Yeah, I guess'. The cop then drove off. No lawyer, no PD, no court, no actual charges.

But no. The collective /. mind believes that anyone not fully monied and lawyered up automatically gets gets the full sentence in PMITA prison.

Actual life doesn't work like that.

The boyfriend got the 'dad speech' from me ("you dumbass"), but I don't think it stuck. He remained a dumbass.


For this kid....lighting fire to the computer lab is a pretty serious deal. There is only so much a lawyer can do for you. But I suspect if this a first offense....probation.

Re:One word: Cloud

[ArmoredDragon]

In the western world we know that children think and reason differently, don't oversee all consequences of their actions, and because of that we try them differently, in juvenile court. A 15 year old who did not perform on a test, panics and does something stupid.

We also know that it isn't quite this cut and dry. That is, somebody doesn't automatically mature at 18, and because they are 15 doesn't automatically mean they haven't matured. The line has to be drawn somewhere, and 18 is the normal boundary. But if somebody does something that is so obviously wrong that even by a child's reasoning it is easily established as wrong, then it is something they can and do face the full consequences for. The fact that you're under 18 isn't a license to play Grand Theft Auto in real life.

Re:One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure you'll be thinking differently when some 15 year old punk sets fire to your house/car/daughter.

At 15 years old i sure as fuck knew that setting fire to buildings was a pretty bad idea. Any fires i lit were well away from any property, trees and dry grass.

Anybody with that kind of mentality needs to be dealt with swiftly and harshly. He knew exactly what he was doing; none of this under-age diminished responsibility crap.

Re:One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

Judging by his behaviour - probably asian.

Re:One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

He hasn't been sentenced yet, has he? Settle down.

Re:One word: Cloud

[angel'o'sphere]

Actual life doesn't work like that.
Actually, life works like that. Your daughters BF was just a lucky ass.

Re:One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, that was spoken like somebody who has practiced law.

Re:One word: Cloud

[nbauman]

That's one anecdote. I'll give you another anecdote. When I went to Stony Brook U., a bunch of guys I knew were driving in a car and got busted for pot. One guy was a working-class guy from upstate New York, first in his family to go to college, working his way through school (that's why he was selling pot). The other guys in the car were rich kids from Long Island. The working-class guy got a public defender, who told him to plead guilty, and I think he served a short sentence in jail. The rich kids' lawyers fought the charges, contested the search, and got them off. Same offense, same car.

Another important issue is how much pressure the cop and district attorney have to get "results". In Baltimore, New York, and most other urban areas, the cops and DA are under a lot of pressure to get "results," i.e., mess up somebody's life. The cops live in the suburbs, they don't care about these people. In rural Virginia, where everybody knows everybody else, the cops may be more concerned about real policing where they just protect people from real crimes and don't concern themselves with the numbers.

But if you want to be scientific about it, there are lots of statistics that show that black people are more likely to be stopped by the cops, more likely to be (illegally) searched, more likely to be prosecuted, and more likely to be sent to jail for the same offense. That came out in the New York City lawsuit against stop and frisk. Don't forget, Freddie Gray was arrested illegally. The cops had no legal reason to suspect that he committed a crime, even after they (illegally) searched him. It's not illegal to look a cop in the eye (unless maybe you're black and it's in the south).

Some of it is race, and some of it is social class. I used to think that it wasn't race, and you could explain everything with social class. But when I looked at the data, I had to admit -- social class was a lot of it, but race was a lot of it too. America is just a racist country. The sooner we face it, the better off we'll be, although the way we're going I think we'll still be racist a generation from now.

Here's a lawyer who explained it better than I can:

https://www.baltimorebrew.com/...
OPINION: Justice for all? Why hasn’t Bishop Cook who struck bicyclist Palermo been charged?
A defense attorney says justice is being mocked by the failure of city prosecutors to charge Bishop Heather Cook
Todd H. Oppenheim
January 5, 2015

(Oppenheimer, an attorney in the Public Defender's Office for 10 years, compares the treatment by the State Attorney's Office and police of the upper class criminals such as Episcopal Bishop Heather Elizabeth Cook, who killed bicyclist Thomas Palermo in a drunken driving hit-and-run, with his own mostly African-American clients. Oppenheim's clients are immediately charged or jailed, while Cook was allowed to go home.)

Instead, she remains free and “lawyered up” with a veteran Towson attorney who has represented many high-profile clients for a substantial fee. My clients can’t afford an attorney of their choice, and they certainly never get the opportunity to preemptively hire an attorney.

The clients I represent never get such treatment. They are informed of their arrests – and not necessarily for what – with a bang at the front door and a swift take-down by an arrest team of officers.

My clients often sit in jail as the state’s attorney’s office sorts out the charges.

(Other examples of wealthy, connected clients who were given special privileges by the legal system.)

Re:One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

Bishop Cook has apparently been charged and defrocked, after a significant delay.

Re: One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

It is really cute that you think public school systems have adequate IT infrastructure

Re:One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

The line has to be drawn somewhere, and 18 is the normal boundary. But if somebody does something that is so obviously wrong that even by a child's reasoning it is easily established as wrong, then it is something they can and do face the full consequences for

Which is why it's always funny (in a tragic sort of way) when we see stories about mid-teens facing consequences that will completely destroy their lives for releasing videos of their consensual sex. The illogical contortions that need to be made by those condemning them to their fate are a Gordian knot of doublethink. But most of those condemning them are operating only on emotion and have no sense of proportion or justice.

I certainly don't think the young can do no wrong, but I'm very opposed to the fundamental injustice of denying a group all kinds of rights and privileges due to arbitrary but "absolute" age lines which somehow manage to dissolve completely when the result will be to their detriment.

Re:One word: Cloud

[Falos]

"I don't wanna deal with this shit today. It's late, I got off half an hour ago, "

The takeaway isn't that cops are colorblind (statistically, some must be) but that enforcement is arbitrary.

And guess what arbitrary enforcement is conducive to? Hint: Arbitrary means the individual gets to decide case-by-case. Person-by-person.

Re:One word: Cloud

[lgw]

I was recently on a jury for a young black man with a volunteer defender. He was acquitted on the most serious charge - the lawyer was quite good, and just bored of defending DWI cases for a living. That's how the system is supposed to work. It's a pity that it doesn't usually, but that's human systems for you. The fact that he's black never mattered to the case (it might have to the cops choosing him to speak with in the first place, but it was definitely his choices that got him arrested).

If you want to claim that the system is biased against blacks over whites after people are arrested, you'll need some evidence for that. Every system gives at least a little advantage to rich people, of course, that's what rich means after all.

Re:One word: Cloud

[nbauman]

There are some good volunteer defenders -- I've met them, especially at The Innocence Project. The term that's usually used to describe them is "overwhelmed." But you want a just system, you can't depend on getting justice only if a volunteer happens to be available and willing. Why don't we depend on unpaid volunteer prosecutors? That would even the contest.

If you want to claim that the system is biased against blacks over whites after people are arrested, you'll need some evidence for that.

There's quite a bit of evidence. Here's what I got from a quick Google search:

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/...

The Color of Justice
This study, released by the Justice Institute in February, 2000, found that in California, African American, Latino and Asian American youth are significantly more likely to be transferred to adult court and sentenced to incarceration than white youths who commit comparable crimes. Compared to white youths, minority youths are 2.8 times more likely to be arrested for a violent crime, 6.2 times more likely to wind up in adult court, and 7 times more likely to be sent to prison by adult court.

Youth Crime/Adult Time: Is Justice Served?
This study released on October 26, 2000 by Building Blocks for Youth, found that minority youth, particularly African American youth, were over-represented and received disparate treatment at several points in the process. In the 18 jurisdictions in the study, 82% of the cases that were filed in adult courts involved a minority.

And Justice for Some
This 2000 study was prepared by The National Council on Crime and Delinquency for the Building Blocks for Youth Initiative. It concludes that "African American juveniles are overrepresented with respect to their proportion in the population at every decision point" in the juvenile justice process.

Here's more:

http://www.ibtimes.com/ferguso...

If I wanted to get solid scientific evidence, I'd start with a law review article, maybe in Harvard Law Review or Yale Law Review.

Every system gives at least a little advantage to rich people, of course, that's what rich means after all.

You can't be perfect, but it's not "a little advantage." It's an unacceptable advantage. The money spent on defense should be equal to the money spent on prosecution, and commensurate with the costs of running the criminal justice system. If the taxpayers want to spend $500,000 to keep somebody in prison for 10 years, then those taxpayers should be willing to spend a similar amount of money to make sure the right person is convicted.

I think one of the reasons people accept this is the tradition of racism in this country, for example in Texas with its death penalty cases. The people who run society accept it when it happens to black people (and working class people) who aren't like them.

I realize no system is perfect, and I can accept the injustice of a multi-millionaire (or a cop) getting away with murder. But I can't accept the injustice of a poor man being executed for a murder he didn't commit, simply because Texas didn't want to spend as much money for a defense as they do for the prosecution.

One of the underlying problems is that the US has greater inequality than most developed countries. Poor people have disadvantages because there are more poor people here than most developed countries. You can't have a fair justice system with massive economic inequality.

Re:One word: Cloud

[Joe_Dragon]

Lots of areas are makeing small amounts of pot a no ticket no court maybe a small fine thing.

Re: One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

It does not matter in Douglas county (Atlanta suburb, btw) if he's black or white. What matters is if his family has money.

Re:One word: Cloud

[ScentCone]

But if you want to be scientific about it, there are lots of statistics that show that black people are more likely to be stopped by the cops

Yeah, and if you want to be scientific about that, and be honest, you'll see that cops stop a lot more people in high crime areas, and that poor urban areas tend to have lots of crime. And that some of those poor areas have a larger black population. If those areas weren't marinated in serious crime, there wouldn't be so many warrants out, stolen cars, cars full of contraband, and the rest.

In Baltimore, New York, and most other urban areas, the cops and DA are under a lot of pressure to get "results," i.e., mess up somebody's life.

What? The people whose lives are messed up are those who have to live in areas like west Baltimore where local thugs make daily life miserable for everyone else who lives there or tries to run a business there. So yes, the cops are asked to "get results," because the absence of any results would make those areas completely lost to civilization, rather than just sucking generally. Would you rather that the cops were told NOT to arrest known violent gang members, serial assault and battery specialists, and the like? What would you have them do?

Re:One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have a crystal ball that says this kid doesn't eventually live up to his vision of his potential? No.

Sure, there's a really big chance he doesn't, but we both know that neither one of us can predict the future, so stop acting like it's obvious what's going to happen.

Keep in mind that many criminals went on to lead productive, if not sometimes admirable lives. Again, the know-it-alls of today say that a criminal is a criminal that must be punished, with no chance of recognizing a person that might again do good.

Re:One word: Cloud

[nbauman]

But if you want to be scientific about it, there are lots of statistics that show that black people are more likely to be stopped by the cops

Yeah, and if you want to be scientific about that, and be honest, you'll see that cops stop a lot more people in high crime areas, and that poor urban areas tend to have lots of crime. And that some of those poor areas have a larger black population. If those areas weren't marinated in serious crime, there wouldn't be so many warrants out, stolen cars, cars full of contraband, and the rest.

I made sure to cite studies that corrected for the possibility that more blacks live in high crime areas. If you read them you'll see. For example, even though drug use is at least as high among whites, more black people get arrested, even for possession. Look at the facts. I can't say any more than that.

In Baltimore, New York, and most other urban areas, the cops and DA are under a lot of pressure to get "results," i.e., mess up somebody's life.

What? The people whose lives are messed up are those who have to live in areas like west Baltimore where local thugs make daily life miserable for everyone else who lives there or tries to run a business there. So yes, the cops are asked to "get results," because the absence of any results would make those areas completely lost to civilization, rather than just sucking generally. Would you rather that the cops were told NOT to arrest known violent gang members, serial assault and battery specialists, and the like? What would you have them do?

You really should read the Bill of Rights. A cop can't arrest "known violent gang members" unless they're committing a crime. If they're violent, arrest them. If they're not violent, leave them alone.

It's not legal for a cop to stop and frisk someone unless he has reasonable grounds to believe that the person may have committed a crime. They can't stop and frisk innocent people who are minding their own business. Fishing expeditions are illegal. That's the law.

If you read the sworn court testimony in the New York stop and frisk case, which was reported on Slashdot, you'll see that the cops were stopping and searching people who were innocent of any crime, and not even suspicious. When the people said accurately that the cops had no right to search them, the cops would often rough them up and arrest them on trumped-up charges. It was almost impossible to get the trumped-up charges dismissed, because the defendant would have to return to court repeatedly, over months, and the cops wouldn't show up. If the defendant didn't take time off from work or school and show up at court, the judge would issue a warrant for his arrest. If the cop didn't show up at court, nothing would happen to the cop.

Most of the arrests from stop and frisk were for possession of small amounts of marijuana, which weren't even a crime -- it's a violation. The cops told suspects to empty their pockets (which is illegal), because public display of marijuana is a crime. So these were "crimes" that were caused by the cops.

Yeah, I don't want cops busting people for small amounts of marijuana. That's a waste of time and money, and just messes up somebody's life. It's a numbers game that precinct commanders like to go through because under Police Commissioner Bratton, they're judged by "stats", and it's a lot easier to bust kids for pot than it is to stop real crime.

Go back to the links I cited. It's all in there. Let me know after you've read it if there's anything in there you don't understand.

Re:One word: Cloud

[nbauman]

I think one of the reasons people accept this is the tradition of racism in this country, for example in Texas with its death penalty cases.

What a bunch of SJW horseshit. Makes me ignore the rest of your posts.

Good. Ignore me.

I keep telling myself that it's a waste of time arguing with idiots who don't care about the facts, but I keep doing it because I have a foolish faith that if you try to reason with people, and give them facts and logic, they might occasionally learn a little bit.

People like you show me that my faith in the intelligence of humanity is misplaced.

If you stop reading my posts, and stop replying, you'll stop me from wasting a lot of time.

Re:One word: Cloud

[naff89]

IN the computer?

Re:One word: Cloud

[bingoUV]

You don't understand stages of brain development. Santiago RamÃn y Cajal spent teenage years in jail and went on to receive the Nobel prize. And didn't commit any crimes after the age of 25 as far as anyone can tell.

If you think that inability to control impulses is lack of demonstrable intelligence, you are the stupid guy here.

Get Educated

Re:One word: Cloud

[William Baric]

The idea that everyone has the same brain and so goes through the same development following the same linear path is wrong. Moreover the idea that morality is in strict correlation with intelligence is also wrong. Sociopaths are often highly intelligent and have successful career (including in science), most don't even commit serious crimes when they are adults, it doesn't change that they are sociopaths.

Yes, there a few examples of teenagers who were rebellious and then became productive member of society. But there are an awful lot more examples of juvenile delinquent who committed crimes after crimes during all their lives. Prisons are full of them.

Schools are full of kids who never committed a serious crime (apart from trying drugs, which to me is not a serious crime) and who will never commit any. How do you explain that if they can't fully understand the consequences of their actions?

Re:One word: Cloud

[bingoUV]

The idea that everyone has the same brain and so goes through the same development following the same linear path is wrong.

Great that I didn't express this idea, then.

Moreover the idea that morality is in strict correlation with intelligence is also wrong

In this context, a paraphrase of my sentence "If you think that inability to control impulses is lack of demonstrable intelligence, you are the stupid guy here." YOU were the one unsuccessfully trying to convey that your "intelligence" means you were capable of control your impulses at an early age.

Sociopaths are often highly intelligent and have successful career (including in science), most don't even commit serious crimes when they are adults, it doesn't change that they are sociopaths.

Yes, there a few examples of teenagers who were rebellious and then became productive member of society. But there are an awful lot more examples of juvenile delinquent who committed crimes after crimes during all their lives. Prisons are full of them.

Schools are full of kids who never committed a serious crime (apart from trying drugs, which to me is not a serious crime) and who will never commit any. How do you explain that if they can't fully understand the consequences of their actions?

Got educated yet?

Re:One word: Cloud

[PitaBred]

Even if you didn't get through to him specifically, there are quite possibly other people more on the fence that don't use stupid acronyms like "SJW" as if it's somehow a pejorative, and they may be influenced by your comments to look deeper into it. We don't need everyone to admit that we've got a problem to start solving it, just enough people to achieve critical mass.

Re:One word: Cloud

[PitaBred]

I don't think anyone was trying to get him out of punishment. I think the chorus here is calling to not treat him as an adult, as our system is wont to do. The "years in prison" line in the news blurb is what set all this off, and that is completely inappropriate given his age and his crime. It shouldn't even be an option to an overzealous prosecutor.

Re:One word: Cloud

[PitaBred]

The problem is the "could". We have a system that's set up to railroad people into the system with those "coulds". "You COULD get 7 years, or plead guilty and get off after 3 months, but it's an adult charge", but then you've got a jail and your strikes started. For what is generally just a stupid juvenile mistake.

Prosecutorial discretion is not often used in a very discretionary manner.

Re: One word: Cloud

[Anonymous Coward]

To imply that the underlying cause is color of skin and not economics seems to be the entire cause of the problem. Black people want to see themselves as a victim because they are black, but the reality is they are a victim because they are poor and economically disadvantaged. The only way we can stop the cycle of poverty and violence is to recognize it for what it is and stop blaming skin color. Nobody gives a shit about skin color these days. If a black president does not prove that then nothing will.

Re:One word: Cloud

[Samizdata]

I knew what that clip was without even clicking it...

No, his hack was successful

[Anonymous Coward]

He issued an HCF instruction.

Re:No, his hack was successful

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop... flammer time!

Re:No, his hack was successful

[Dogtanian]

He issued an HCF instruction.

Shame I didn't have mod points- not just for the joke itself, but because- in a discussion thread that could otherwise have been mistaken for one on Fark or whatever- it says something that this is by far the most reminiscent of the traditional Slashdot audience and style.

Re:No, his hack was successful

[fisted]

Quiet, audience!

Another bad parenting example

[Anonymous Coward]

So here is another example of bad parenting. How does a kid go from getting a bad grade to breaking and entering, to hacking a computer to change a grade to arson? Well its not because of the school, or a teacher, or the police. Its bad parenting and not teaching their kids right from wrong and frankly, not knowing where the heck their kid is at 1AM in the morning. When did it become correct to just let your child do whatever they want because you don't want to punish them because they may get made at you? Obviously, this person would rather break into a school to change his grade then actually do the work properly and get good grades.

Re:Another bad parenting example

[gnupun]

Is convenience more important than security? Apparently so, since if the grades had been stored in on a more secure medium such as paper locked inside a vault or safe, it would be less hackable. A networked computer can be hacked from anywhere in the world and has typically thousands of bugs which form entry points for hackers.

Re:Another bad parenting example

[Opportunist]

How does one kid go from getting a bad grade to breaking and entering... Probably by following the train of thought that anything is ok as long as you bring home good grades.

That's what good parenting is about, right? Making sure your kids knows that his grades mean everything.

Re:Another bad parenting example

[gweihir]

Parenting is overrated. This kid is just an idiot and probably has poor impulse control. There is nothing that parenting can do to fix the former and little it can do to fix the latter. Stop looking for people to blame.

Re:Another bad parenting example

[angel'o'sphere]

We are all ears: how do you good parent a kid not to do that kind of stuff?

Re:Another bad parenting example

[jmv]

Bad parenting... or bad neighbourhood, or bad school, or bad...
It's only when you have kids that you realize that you only have so much influence over them.

Re:Another bad parenting example

[rtb61]

As long as you include genetics in bad parenting, you are likely right. Yep, pretty much, some kids are just born to be bad, psychopaths and what final frustration triggers what action is often just a matter of chance and access to guns and ammo.

Re:Another bad parenting example

[Anonymous Coward]

When did it become correct to just let your child do whatever they want because you don't want to punish them because they may get made at you?

I'm going to take a wild guess that the child who was so utterly desperate and panicked about a bad grade that he was willing to go to such extremes to change it is not actually the product of a home where the parents are especially lenient and averse to punishment. Quite frankly, I wouldn't be surprised if the arson wasn't a cry for help by someone who was so terrified of what his parents would do that Juvenile hall looked like the better option.

Heh. Captcha is "terror".

Re:Another bad parenting example

[Anonymous Coward]

Parents put pressure on their kids to succeed. Sometimes they forget to monitor their (the parent's) expectations, and what someone else feels isn't what one intends. I'll bet this kid is a bright version of "just a kid" but is expected to be "a star" who rises way above others. Kids lack the experience to really handle such things, and in their own way, they eventually come to semi-logical conclusions like this.

When I was a kid, I was skinny. I lied to a teacher that if I didn't get a better grade on a test, my Mom would stop feeding me again. Of course, she never let me go without a meal, but her pressure on me to succeed put me in a desperate place. I think it was in an attempt to argue a B to an A.

It also had me trying to use a pen to "modify" the dot-matrix report cards of the time.

In fact, I can't think of one beneficial thing that came out of all the pressure. I was bright enough to succeed without the stress, and if it was done in a more nurturing manner, I might have done much, much better. The only thing that came out of the stress was an accelerated learning path for "how to pull one over on the parents."

One day in college, my Mom screamed at me before a major exam. I nearly lost it. I don't remember how I scored on the exam, but I know it wasn't my best. I went home early, packed all the stuff I really needed, and left to a "rent by the week" hotel room. A month later I was living in an apartment.

My Mom was so disconnected that she was beaming with pride at my new "adult" behavior. I kept in touch, but declined to invite her over.

Quickly I ran out of money and joined the military for the educational benefits. It really wasn't enough, but that and a few part-time jobs meant that I didn't have to go home. I really didn't keep in touch too much while in the military, much to my Mom's consternation.

Now I'm fully grown, and fully flown the coop. I live close enough to visit but too far to do so often. When I do visit, we don't say too much, and when she does say a lot, it typically doesn't go well for me. The ties are broken, and I really don't like her, despite loving her. I wish she was a bit more caring, but she has no real cause to be so as I don't really extend the same to her.

Mother's day is around the corner, and really, I'm not exactly thrilled. At best she'll say she's proud of me, but of course she really can't put a finger on why, and if she tries, it's all going to come out as "I could have done better." I tend to agree with her on that part, but mostly my opinion is "yeah, if you weren't holding me back by bullying me into it."

Re: Another bad parenting example

[Anonymous Coward]

Now you are assuming the bad parenting was a lack of rules and discipline, but I would guess that is only an assumption?

Maybe he has extremely tight rules and went to extremes trying to cover up his actions due to fear of how bad his parents reactions could be. Actually that could be the reason he needed to change the grade in the first place.

The reason I would never have thought of anything like this is that I always knew my parents would not over react to a bad grade and would help me fix the situation. My friends with parents of quick temper and tight discipline often tried to cover up things that seemed trivial to me.

Re:Another bad parenting example

[Anonymous Coward]

jezuz dad, give it rest will'ya!

Re:Another bad parenting example

[Anonymous Coward]

if he succeeded in hacking the system, then you would be blaming the educational system ;) Since he failed.. you are like blah blah blah

Arson? lol

[Anonymous Coward]

"The computer lab was cleaned up and re-opened in time for the start of that day's classes."

Lol if we're calling that arson. More like a campfire sze at best. He probably barely even consumed the computer he tried to burn.

P.S. What an epic fail of a kid. Not only was he dumb even to fail a test in our NCLB schools, but he couldn't hack into a Windows computer and couldn't even burn down a computer. Pro tip - try gasoline next time.

Re:Arson? lol

[Anonymous Coward]

Pro tip - gasoline explodes, try diesel next time.

Re:Arson? lol

[Anonymous Coward]

well he could have use alcohol, after all breaking and entering, arson, attempted hacking, and cheating, might as well throw theft into the mix steal some alcohol from the chemistry labs and use that as a fuel source. Maybe he would be able actually accomplish something rather than failing at everything

Re:Arson? lol

[Anonymous Coward]

Pro tip - Go try to light some diesel on fire.

Firewall?

[Required Snark]

Just wondering.

Re:Firewall?

[Anonymous Coward]

He was burning through it!

Do guidance counselors help students hack?

[jellomizer]

"He could have very easily come to one of his counselors and asked for help"

Guidance counselors are the biggest wast in the school systems.
Either you are Ivy League material and you are smart enough to deal with the rest of the stuff, or they say you should consider vocational training.
I remember having to show my guidance counselor how I can make my schedule work. Because she just couldn't do it herself.

So if he went for help what are they going do? Not change his grade, at best you can form a relationship, so she may leave with the computer logged in where you change the grade there.

Apparently not

[Anonymous Coward]

If you he have easily asked for help from a counselor, then he wouldn't have tried to hack into the computers and then torch the place.

Clearly, this kid is mentally unstable. However, it is also clear that the counselors did not present a viable alternative to extreme violence.

Re:Apparently not

[Anonymous Coward]

So you will excuse violence because there was not someone near to help him? Dose not show he was mentally unstable, it shows he was desperate for some reason. Maybe he did not want to fail the class and have to be held back a year.

I hate when people try to make excuses for people doing bad things as if anyone who dose bad things has mental issues. We all make our choices, just because we can't understand that choice, don't make them unstable.

But it is a positive that we found out how bad a person he is before he is older and dose more then try to burn a computer lab. He would have had to find and destroy the school's servers also to destroy the grades though.

Re:Apparently not

[Anonymous Coward]

You'd be mentally unstable too if you went home to a family that seemed to put your personal mental health secondary to an improved letter grade.

If you are not in a family like that, count your lucky stars. Some of us aren't that lucky. Three A's two B's and a C was only a mild two hour long whipping, but the screaming and yelling about grades for days on end did unhinge me enough to do things that I should have never done.

Just to give an example, I broke into my school (knew a window that was consistently unlocked) to go to my locker to get a field trip permission slip and take it out to the parking lot for my Dad to sign it only because I was too afraid to admit that I forgot it and that I couldn't get it because the school was closed.

If that was the kind of fear that I felt for just forgetting a permission slip, you can extrapolate what kind of fear I felt when there was a C on my report card. After all, my parents (who never helped me with my homework) expected an all-A report card, with consequences if I didn't deliver it.

Rage quit :

[s0litaire]

pyro level achieved!

His failed grade

[Anonymous Coward]

Hacking 101.

Education

[AndyCanfield]

Now he gets arrested, and sent to jail, and tried, and convicted, and goes to prison for a few years. By the time he gets out, he'll know a LOT about hacking computers. Getting an education the hard way.

Re:Education

[angel'o'sphere]

By the time he gets out, he'll know a LOT about hacking computers.
Certainly he won't.
For that you not only need access to a computer but also a teacher to teach you ... and time to practice.
When he comes out most security problems will be solved and tools to breach a computer will be different.

"Hacking" a computer is not as easy as the movies try to tell you.

Nerds!

[Anonymous Coward]

(Rolls eyes).

He probably misunderstood Bob Pease:

[ctrl-alt-canc]

"My favorite programming language is solder".
A propane torch is not the best tool to hack a PC board, anyhow.

Similar thing happened at MIT

[Anonymous Coward]

Many years ago, someone at MIT poured soda into all of the LISP machines in the computer lab. I'm not sure if they were caught, but of course the suspicion was that it was a way to avoid taking a test or something.

I agree!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is a prime example why I think abortion should be allowed until the age of 18. Kid turns into a shit, well the parents got to make society better and take hi out back and put'em down like Old Yeller!

Counselors?

[Usefull Idiot]

"It's very sad and tragic. He could have very easily come to one of his counselors and asked for help,"

Wow, counselors would help him hack the computer system and change his grade?
I never understood trying to change your grades through that method, usually there is a separate record somewhere, and you would think someone would notice at some point. Yes, failing a test is bad, but getting caught altering it is much worse.

Re:Counselors?

[gweihir]

He was probably inspired by today's CEOs and politicians who have no skills beyond lying, cheating and destroying things. Pro-tip: even these things require some level of skill...

So which of his acts gets the higher penalty?

[Plumpaquatsch]

Attempted hacking or arson (or damaging one computer with fire)?

Re:So which of his acts gets the higher penalty?

[Anonymous Coward]

It probably depends on the size of the axe he used to do the hacking.

The cop got it wrong.

[BarbaraHudson]

Only problem with that is that the police officer was wrong. Georgia law does not mandate that juveniles be tried as adults for 3rd degree arson - which is what this was (attempt to damage property of another worth $25 or more). So, legally speaking, the kid wasn't arrested - he was taken into custody (this difference is so that adults can legally say they were never arrested if their only contact is with the juvenile system - this means that it doesn't tarnish them for life).

So, he committed a delinquency, not a criminal act (a delinquency being any act that, if it were done by an adult, would be a crime).

So, when the article, based on information from the cop, states:

The boy, who was not identified because he is a minor, faces five felonies, including burglary and arson. Lt. Daniel said the charges could land the young man in prison for several years.

, ... he is wrong. The minor faces 5 delinquencies, not felonies. Even detention at a youth detention facility is not considered prison under the legal system.

Re:The cop got it wrong.

[Antique Geekmeister]

You have valid logical and legal points. But the acts would be considered felonies if committed by an adult. The subtle difference between a delinquency and a felony in the early stages are subtle enough not to confuse the typical reader with.

Re:The cop got it wrong.

[BarbaraHudson]

The very definition of a delinquency is an act that, if it had been committed by an adult, would have been a crime. And as long as the case isn't remanded to the adult system, that doesn't change - he will have been found to have committed one or more delinquencies, not crimes.

Even children in jurisdictions that don't have mandatory remand to the adult court system for acts such as murder can end up being found to have committed a delinquency, not a crime.

Some people would say this isn't right - but consider that as a trade-off, juveniles accused of delinquencies don't have a right to a jury trial, and a process with a much higher standard of proof.

Re: The cop got it wrong.

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to know an awful lot about delinquencies.

Re: The cop got it wrong.

[BarbaraHudson]

You seem to know an awful lot about delinquencies.

I grew up in the slums. Everyone knew an awful lot about delinquencies :-)

Unless

[tomhath]

Unless they charge him as an adult, which could happen. So he does (possibly) face five felonies.

Re:Unless

[BarbaraHudson]

Right now he does NOT face five felonies. That's a simple fact. He may, at some future time, should the juvenile court system so rule. Right now, though, he only faces delinquencies. Given that about 10% of the e population has had run-ins with the juvenile system, this should be better known.

Makes me wonder how many non-criminals who have been taken into custody have thought that they have to answer "yes" when asked if they've "ever been arrested, even as a juvenile" , when they can legally say no.

Re:Unless

[Anonymous Coward]

That's just scare tactics. When you are a kid who is in trouble with the police they *always* make it seem worse than what it is in an attempt to scare the shit out of you, and in the case of this quote, maybe his peers. They don't actually charge kids as adults for an attempted arson where no one was hurt.

Great Parents

[tquasar]

I see dumb people.

As stated on 'Squidbillies'

[Shoten]

"Georgia Public Schools...somebody's gotta build the cars!"

Slashdot

[Anonymous Coward]

The kind of kid who reads Slashdot,

1. Everything is unsecured so it's OK.
2. Hacking into a system is not a crime, it's "research".
3. It's only bits of data.
4. It's only a grade.
5. Assange, Snowden, and Schwartz , Manning are Heroes and Martyrs.

Hi My name is Michael Weston

[Anonymous Coward]

I burned down the school because, my School got those battery terminals clipped to my tongue for eight hours, now where is Fiona and Sam, we've got to finish these cans of yogurt before the expiration date.

Seriously though the world is going to shit out there, just having a little fun in here.

Third world scum destroying America

[Anonymous Coward]

"The boy, who was not identified because he is"... NON-WHITE, perchance?
I just can't imagine.

lp

[Sechr Nibw]

Warning: lp0 on fire.

can't hack

[Anonymous Coward]

Kids, gives up CS if you can't hack!!!

What no job offers?

[Stan92057]

No job offers? I,m disappointed.

Stupid cops.

[Anonymous Coward]

"It's very sad and tragic. He could have very easily come to one of his counselors and asked for help," said Lt. Glenn Daniel

What are the chances that one of his counselors has heard of things like Metasploit or knows how to "pwn" a machine?

If it is about the fire, it is possible a counselor could have helped but with as unpopular as smoking has become, the counselors probably do not even carry lighters these days.

He didn't see War Games?

[Barlo_Mung_42]

The password is pencil.

Re:He didn't see War Games?

[Darinbob]

Oh, the files are IN the computer!

"Stupid mistake"? (Re:Hahah)

[mi]

The mistake reveals a stunning lack of morals

A 15 year-old man not only committed a serious crime (arson), he also tried to cheat — and not in a game, but in the most important (at his age) part of life. And that's age, when one is still supposed to venerate honor, integrity and honesty — even if many of us become more pessimistic about these values later in life. Didn't he just read Mark Twain? Heinlein may be despised by the modern teaching class — not the boy's fault — but Jack London ought to figure prominently on reading assignments...

Though he is hardly the only one such in the nation, I would not want him to some day win a public office, run a bank, or marry my daughter.

Re:"Stupid mistake"? (Re:Hahah)

[Anonymous Coward]

I would not want him to some day win a public office...

Whaddya talking about? You vote for these kinds of people all the time, and they do run banks, and churches, etc. And they burn down whole countries for money. Your 'morality' schtick (more like troll) falls flat.

Re:"Stupid mistake"? (Re:Hahah)

[Anonymous Coward]

A 15 year-old man not only committed a serious crime (arson), he also tried to cheat

Do you also agree that he should have been, at his age, allowed to vote, to purchase and use any legal drugs, make his own financial and life decisions independent of guardians, join the military, have sex with other adults without either party getting in legal trouble, distribute videos of that sex, sign binding contracts, etc? If you agree with all of that, then fine, once he's living in a world where all of those are things he can legally do, then he can be considered an adult for criminal purposes. Until then, it's just hypocrisy.

Re:"Stupid mistake"? (Re:Hahah)

[mi]

Do you also agree that he should have been, at his age, allowed to [...]

I do not agree with that and do not understand, why you accuse me of "hypocrisy" because of it.

That he is not an adult may affect his legal status and/or lessen the extent of the prosecution.

That his moral failings deserve strict censure — and can not be discounted as merely a "stupid mistake" — is quite different.

Re:"Stupid mistake"? (Re:Hahah)

[mi]

You vote for these kinds of people all the time, and they do run banks, and churches, etc.

First of all, please, provide citations.

Second, do you not agree, that, if true, such would be a sad state of affairs?

Re:"Stupid mistake"? (Re:Hahah)

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah it is a 'sad' state of affairs. What about it? You're probably still voting for republicans and democrats, so fuck you. And fuck your 'citations'. Your ongoing corruption is splattered all over the newspapers every day. Stop being such a silly troll/shill.

Not a parent.

[Anonymous Coward]

not knowing where the heck their kid is at 1AM in the morning

But fuck your cluelessness and weird theory that parents should sleep in watches.

Riiiight.

[Rhywden]

Actually, you will do stupid things until about age 25. Because that's when your frontal lobe has fully matured.

This lobe is the one thing which determines stuff like "long-term consequences" and "risk calculation". It also explains why teenagers and people in their early twenties regularly pull stupid stunts - they are literally incapable of fully understanding the consequences of their actions.

Now, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't punish them. But we usually don't punish mentally handicapped people as harshly as fully capable persons...

... oh, wait, this is the USA. Scratch the last part.

Re:Riiiight.

[William Baric]

So everyone under 25 is a brain dead moron? I guess it's time we forbid anyone under 25 to drive a car, vote or even live on their own since they are "literally incapable of fully understanding the consequences of their actions".

As part of the curriculum of my morale class in high school, we learned about Kohlberg's stages of moral development. At 16, I was between stage 5 and 6 (I was beginning to use stage 6 arguments).

A few years ago, I found some of my old class notebooks and dissertations (every Saturday morning we had 3 hours to do a dissertation on a random subject as part of my French class when I was in France). I read them expecting to find them stupid. I was surprised to see how "mature" I was at 13.

I remember reading 1984 when I was a kid. The only thing i didn't understand at the time was why sex played such a major role in the plot. I couldn't understand how sex could be such a motivator since I didn't go through puberty yet. But other than that, I certainly was able to understand all the moral and political message.

I'll go even farther than that. When I was 10, I was distributing flyers to make some cash (I was paid 5$ a week). There's one event I remember. Two girls (probably around 7) came to me and begun to tease me (this was in the 70s, when even 7 years old kids were free to be outside alone). At one time, they asked me which one of them was the most beautiful. I didn't want to answer because I knew the other would have her feelings hurt. I was fucking 10.

I'm sorry, but you are a complete idiot.

Re:Riiiight.

[AJWM]

I guess it's time we forbid anyone under 25 to drive a car,

Car rental companies do exactly that.

Just because you were lucky enough to have hyperdeveloped frontal lobes at age 10 doesn't mean that most, or even on average, people do. Apparently you haven't quite reached the stage of not overgeneralizing from personal anecdote.

Re:Riiiight.

[William Baric]

I was not alone in school and I was not special. All our dissertations were more or less the same value. There certainly was a few morons, but the majority of my classmates were like me.

I am not the one making over generalizations, it's people who think a average 15 years old can't understand the consequences of his actions because of a very few problematic kids who are making ridiculous generalizations.

A 15 years old kid certainly knows the difference between good and bad.

Re:Riiiight.

[gfxguy]

So everyone under 25 is a brain dead moron?.

No, just your average person... the description of the crime fits that narrative. Perhaps you were a genius who understood there were consequences to your actions - science has shown us that's not typical of the under-25 crowd.

So... congratulations on taking the comment completely the wrong way.

Re:Riiiight.

[gfxguy]

It's not people making generalizations, it's scientific evidence; years of study show that people under the age of 25 largely do not fully grasp the consequences of their actions. Congratulations on being a statistical outlier... it doesn't change the point made.

Re:Riiiight.

[Rhywden]

First: Learn to read. Second: This is science, my dear. Third: Anecdotes are not data.

Re:Riiiight.

[William Baric]

Try to look a bit at the "science" before accepting something as true. It's not science, it's only speculative interpretation of data. Worse, it's speculative interpretation of data which is not only proven wrong by simple observations we all make every day, but also by all research on children moral development which was done in the past by Piaget and all the ones who followed after him.

As for the anecdote, in this case the anecdote is this kid who acted like a narcissistic asshole (and a narcissistic personality disorder is certainly a possibility here). The vast majority of kids will do some small stupid things to test the authority (that's part of our hierarchical nature), but certainly not like this one. If you think this kid is a typical kid, you're a plain idiot.

Re:Riiiight.

[bingoUV]

It is unlikely that he is a statistical outlier. He hasn't even given any story about his own ability to grasp the consequences of his actions at an age under 15.

Humans are quite smart at 16 years of age. What is not developed is the reward experienced by controlling actions for a long term good consequence.

Re:Riiiight.

[Rhywden]

Um, the development of the frontal lobe and its importance for the development of human cognitive processes has been pretty well researched.

But I'm done with your particular brand of trollish behaviour - if you have nothing to contribute but mindless insults then your opinion is most likely worthless.

Re:Riiiight.

[William Baric]

The development of the frontal lobe is somewhat researched (certainly not well research as neuroscience is quite new and changing rapidly), but saying from those data that someone under 25 years old can't fully understand the consequences of his action is nothing but speculative interpretation.

What we are talking here is morality. So go to a any 10 years old, describe what that teenager did and the reason he did it and ask the 10 years old if this behavior was good or bad. Again, try to learn a minimum about children moral development before thinking you know enough to have an opinion, because you really don't.

You think I have a trollish behavior? Tell me... If someone begins to argue with you that the sky is not blue, but red. You show him a lot of pictures with blue skies, but he simply discard them and continue to argue the sky is red. How will you react?

Magnets, Bitches!

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't that kid learn anything from Breaking Bad?

Noob

[sjukfan]

Noobs blame it on the lag.

Thanks Hollywood

[Anonymous Coward]

Thanks to Hollywood, millions of mundanes out there think that hacking into a computer system is an easy task that should take maybe 5 minutes at the most. A well-secured computer system may still be hackable, but it's going to take significant amounts of time, effort, and knowledge, but you'll never hear that from Hollywood.

Shame on you guys

[ArcadeMan]

154 posts and no reference to Milton...

Milton Waddams: [muttering] I could set the building on fire.

Re:Shame on you guys

[DarthVain]

Was just about to post about this being Milton Jr.

or the fact it is about time for a High School reboot of Officespace...

Impressive

[Anonymous Coward]

The kid literally created a firewall.

Student needed help?

[Anonymous Coward]

So ... he was supposed to get help from school counselors to hack into the school's computer system? Hmmm.

Mostly Rubbish Research.

[thesupraman]

Yawn, not this again.

While I do think the US penal system is very broken... this research is trivially shown to be a pile of garbage.
It ASSUMES the only cause of recidivism can be the length of prison sentence, and therefore that relation is cause.
It totally ignores that harder criminals, when caught tend to end up with longer sentences (because, well, they do worse crimes..) and that
these same harder criminals are more likely to not change their ways.

Having spent some significant time with people who actually work with criminals in the prison systems I can tell you that the VERY unpopular
but well proven fact is that there are generally two types of people. The prison psycologists often call them the sheep and the wolves.
The sheep are usually these because of a bad situation or foolish mistake that spun out of control. They were late for a meeting, not thinking,
and crashed into someone in their car killing them. Their personal/family situation got desperate so they had to steal to make things meet. They
didnt usually drink much, but had a few that night, arrived home to find their partner in a screaming rage and punched them. etc. All very stupid
and faulty, but not their usual actions. Punishment usually gives them a pretty big reality check.

The wolves however are very different, and not that rare. To them things are for the taking. They have the 'right' to do these things, and the
punishment is just an unfortunate side effect. Next time they will just be 'tougher' and wont get caught. These people tend to spiral up not down
and little if anything works to reduce their damaging effects on society because they see society as theirs to use/abuse as they want.

Prison is often, but not always, overkill for the sheep - they will usually see their mistake.
Prison is often a requirement for the wolves, because is KEEPS THEM AWAY FROM SOCIETY.

Prison is not primarily a punishment, it is a way to protect society as a whole.
This is where the system is falling down - we are not separating those two groups and treating them suitably... because the crime itself does not
tell you which type they are.

Unfortunately there is a strong feeling among quite a bit of modern society that 'bad boys will become good, they just need more love'. The wolves
live on this..It is their free ride and they know it.

We need to judge more on intent and less on crime.
We need a wider range of 'suitable' punishments, and many more 'unpleasant but not prison' options.
We need to accept that some people should not be part of society.
And we need to stop wishing everyone would just love each other more.. Because some people are good, some are bad. Deal with it.

This kid, of course, needs a damn good kick in the entitlements. Not a prison sentence (yet). Only time will tell where he goes.

Re:Mostly Rubbish Research.

[amaurea]

this research is trivially shown to be a pile of garbage. It ASSUMES the only cause of recidivism can be the length of prison sentence, and therefore that relation is cause. It totally ignores that harder criminals, when caught tend to end up with longer sentences (because, well, they do worse crimes..) and that these same harder criminals are more likely to not change their ways.

No, it assumes there might be other causes, and controls for those. Here's the relevant part of the article (which I already quoted in my original post):

A 1999 study tested this assumption in a meta-analysis reviewing 50 studies dating back to 1958 involving a total of 336,052 offenders with various offenses and criminal istories. Controlling for risk factors such as criminal history and substance abuse, the authors assessed the relationship between length of time in prison and recidivism, and found that longer prison sentences were associated with a three percent increase in recidivism.

we've all been there

[Anonymous Coward]

"i know... FIRE!"

It's THERE ON THE PAGE

[dbIII]

"Followed by The Black Swan"
Which was in 2007, and his day job was an economist in the finance industry while he was writing those.

Edge cases were considered in science long before an economist picked a new name for a gross oversimplification of old ideas. He's very much an anti-statistician and calls them "pseudoscientists".

What is the motivation of your little luddite sig? To say that the views of any expert are worthless and thus climate science if worthless - or is it something less obvious that makes you want to challenge the authority of anyone with a clue?

Firewall protection

[Anonymous Coward]

That's fine. Their firewalls protected the comms room from attack.

burn it down

[Anonymous Coward]

That kid's not from Baltimore or Ferguson, MO by any chance?

Spoiled child assume skills he didn't have

[fla5hfire]

This appears to be an over-indulge child who's parent imparted too much self esteem and not enough boundaries. Assuming for a moment that he has no previous encounters with law enforcement and that he assumes responsibility for the damage that he has inflicted, then I would have no problems with him getting a suspended sentence (he would of course have to plead guilty). If the crime would warrant a 5 year sentence then he should be on probation for 5 years, and if there are no further law enforcement entanglements then his record could be sealed and he can move on with his life. We all know that young people are not always able to evaluate the risk verses reward of certain actions; this is why we have probation, so the a moment of foolishness does not cause them a lifetime of woe.

Re:Spoiled child assume skills he didn't have

[david_thornley]

You do realize that you know almost nothing of the 15-year-old and his family, right? It seems to me equally likely that he has low self-esteem and serious boundaries, and the only way he can get approval is by bringing good grades home. Or the situation might be entirely different.

He's a 15-year-old who did something stupid. I can't tell whether he was malicious or simply panicked. BTW, I know of a case of arson, by an adult, that caused a whole lot more damage than this did, and he didn't spend long locked up. I doubt five years is the appropriate amount of time.

He could have..

[Puppet Master]

He could have very easily come to one of his counselors and asked for help... Student: Excuse me, but I'm having trouble hacking into the computer in order to change my grade. Can you please help me? Counselor: Sure hang on... (tap-tap tap)... There you go.