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Unable To Hack Into Grading System, Georgia Student Torches Computer Lab
McGruber writes: A 15 year-old Douglas County, Georgia high school student has been charged with five felonies, including burglary and arson, after sheriff's deputies caught him while responding to a 1 AM fire at Alexander High School. The boy admitted to investigators that he set fire to a computer after trying, unsuccessfully, to hack into the school computer system to change his grade on a failed test. "It's very sad and tragic. He could have very easily come to one of his counselors and asked for help," said Lt. Glenn Daniel with the Douglas County Sheriff's Department. "From what we can tell, (the student) was mad and frustrated because he could not hack into the system." Lt. Daniel said the charges could land the young man in prison for several years. The computer lab was cleaned up and re-opened in time for the start of that day's classes.
He did the crime (actually several), he must do the time.
If he wants to play big boy games then he must accept big boy penalties. Fuck your PC "Oh but he's a kid with his whole life ahead of him!" bullshit, he's chosen his path, let him reap the consequences.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
Just not this kid's day... First he fails his test, then he fails to hack into the grading system before finally failing to burn down the computer lab.
What kind of rational human being does this? Did you try to set fire to your schools property because of a bad grade? I'll look past the B&E and unauthorized access.
He is dangerous, to himself and others. If not juvie, then a psych eval and treatment.
I find the Officers attitude refreshingly pragmatic and progressive and very untypical.
Better question: What kind of kid who at least *thinks* he might be capable of hacking the school's system wouldnt be aware of cloud storage/backup? Clearly setting a fire would do nothing to cloud stored data.
The attitude sort of makes sense coupled with the weird sig - not being able to tell the difference between science and economics so not being able to make sense of juvenile versus adult criminal treatment goes with the territory.
Yes it's a personal attack but you wanted big boy games with consequences didn't you?
He issued an HCF instruction.
And one more thing. Maybe if we stopped treating teens like kids by restricting them so much, they would behave more like adults. If we let them drink a little, maybe they wouldn't binge. If teen sex wasn't so taboo, maybe they'd practice safe sex habits (and maybe even not be as promiscuous). And so on. And same goes for adults with drugs.
A little trust goes a long way.
uh, what?
What has my sig to do with economics?
The shitbag in the article committed a crime. He should be punished.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
So here is another example of bad parenting. How does a kid go from getting a bad grade to breaking and entering, to hacking a computer to change a grade to arson? Well its not because of the school, or a teacher, or the police. Its bad parenting and not teaching their kids right from wrong and frankly, not knowing where the heck their kid is at 1AM in the morning. When did it become correct to just let your child do whatever they want because you don't want to punish them because they may get made at you? Obviously, this person would rather break into a school to change his grade then actually do the work properly and get good grades.
Big boy games?
He was trying to change a high school grade?
He didn't realize it was harder to do it then it seems on TV, he probably thought he was some great hacker because he helped with a DDOS.
Then he got frustrated so he lit the computer on fire?
This doesn't sound like the actions of an adult. It sounds like the action of a standard undeveloped brain of a teenager.
Should he be punished. Yes, probably expelled from school, or in his case forced to take the year over again, and insure his transcripts for his high school tenure give him solid D-'s.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
"The computer lab was cleaned up and re-opened in time for the start of that day's classes."
Lol if we're calling that arson. More like a campfire sze at best. He probably barely even consumed the computer he tried to burn.
P.S. What an epic fail of a kid. Not only was he dumb even to fail a test in our NCLB schools, but he couldn't hack into a Windows computer and couldn't even burn down a computer. Pro tip - try gasoline next time.
This kid needs serious help. If serious help fails, they need to face punishment for their crime.
Consider: this is a premeditated crime, committed to accomplish a certain objective. It also reflects a series of mistakes, not a singular one, in order to reach that objective. It is not a prank to relieve boredom. It is not a singular mistake to get what they want. It is not a kid being a kid.
I'm not normally a fan of a heavy handed approach to punishing kids. Yet when a kid isn't acting like a kid, they do need to face the consequences.
Just wondering.
Why is Snark Required?
Well, that's the criminal system for you. It just punishes wrongdoing without trying to fix the cause.
In all fairness, the kid's parents should be in jail with him, since they are responsible for their kids' actions, no?
If there were proper counseling and guidance enforced in a case like this, and removal from society if attitude adjustment is not proven by a trained psychologist after a set time, then things might improve. But, it's far more profitable to throw people in prison, I guess.
Because it's a thing from 2007 from an economist FFS - so most scientists haven't even heard of it yet so of course such fringe stuff from left field gets ignored.
If you he have easily asked for help from a counselor, then he wouldn't have tried to hack into the computers and then torch the place.
Clearly, this kid is mentally unstable. However, it is also clear that the counselors did not present a viable alternative to extreme violence.
We must always prefer drugs and state intervention to failed approaches like, you know, parenting and involvement in a community of faith.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
He did the crime (actually several), he must do the time.
he obviously needs help, but how will putting him into a rape factory where criminals are hardened help society?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Perhaps prison wouldn't be appropriate for an adult either, here? There is evidence that harsher punishment is counterproductive, increasing the chance of repeat crimes.
A 1999 study tested this assumption in a meta-analysis reviewing 50 studies dating back to 1958 involving a total of 336,052 offenders with various offenses and criminal istories. Controlling for risk factors such as criminal history and substance abuse, the authors assessed the relationship between length of time in prison and recidivism, and found that longer prison sentences were associated with a three percent increase in recidivism. Offenders who spent an average of 30 months in prison had a recidivism rate of 29%, compared to a 26% rate among prisoners serving an average sentence of 12.9 months. The authors also assessed the impact of serving a prison sentence versus receiving a community-based sanction. Similarly, being incarcerated versus recidivism.
This is especially pronounced for low-risk offenders.
Researchers also find an increased likelihood that lower-risk offenders will be more negatively affected by incarceration. Among low-risk offenders, those who spent less time in prison were 4% less likely to recidivate than low-risk offenders who served longer sentences. Thus, when prison sentences are relatively short, offenders are more likely to maintain their ties to family, employers, and their community, all of which promote successful reentry into society. Conversely, when prisoners serve longer sentences they are more likely to become institutionalized, lose pro-social contacts in the community, and become removed from legitimate opportunities, all of which promote recidivism.
If one goes to the step of imprisoning people, then the prisons that perform best when it comes to low risk of preventing future crimes are ones like this one.
At an adult prison? The experts seem to think locking kids up in adult prisons is a very stupid idea, hence my focus on your stupid luddite sig pretending that experts are not experts which seems to indicate that very stupid ideas have found fertile soil.
pyro level achieved!
Laters Sol "Have you found the secrets of the universe? Asked Zebade "I'm sure I left them here somewhere"
Funny enough, if he actually HAD screwed like an adult, he'd probably be in trouble with the law now, too...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Just because the cop said he faces charges that could result in prison time doesn't mean he's going to prison.
If (as you seem to think) he is a poor misguided child who displayed bad judgement on this one occasion, he will certainly be given counseling and probation.
On the other hand, if he's a thug who has already been arrested several times and has shown no indication of improved behavior after the usual help provided to first and second offenders, there isn't much else that can be done besides keep him away from the rest of society
Probably more than you might think. I did have ideas of burning stuff for trivial matters when I was a kid, many of my friends did and one of them acted it (thankfully, he was unsuccessful). A good thing that starting a fire is not that easy and that kids are not too dedicated...
15 is a bit too old for that shit though.
Splendid, and you will pay the absurd amounts of money necessary to keep him shuttling between the courts, prison and probation for the rest of his life.
American justice -- the second biggest demonstration of the broken window fallacy since Operation Iraqi Freedom.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
Right. An adult would get jealous that his GF looked at another guy and proceed to beat the crap out of said other guy. You have a really warped view of "adult" behaviour, compared to your average teenager.
Now he gets arrested, and sent to jail, and tried, and convicted, and goes to prison for a few years. By the time he gets out, he'll know a LOT about hacking computers. Getting an education the hard way.
There is a reason we call them "children" and don't let them drive cars, play with knives, etc. Should every toddler spend the night in jail for jaywalking? The real problem is that any line that defines adulthood is an arbitrary one. Some kids are mature enough at twelve, others are not even at twenty.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
"My favorite programming language is solder".
A propane torch is not the best tool to hack a PC board, anyhow.
Splendid, and you will pay the absurd amounts of money necessary to keep him shuttling between the courts, prison and probation for the rest of his life.
American justice -- the second biggest demonstration of the broken window fallacy since Operation Iraqi Freedom.
How is this the second biggest demonstration of failed politics? This is clearly bigger. The failed justice system in the US is a far bigger problem - in the US - than the war in Iraq.
Ruin a child life? Mistakes that a child do? Are you really that stupid? Kids (children) these days kill, rape and other things that were typical for adults. You screw up like an adult, screw them like an adult.
Well except this kid didn't murder, didn't rape.
And he didn't screw up like an adult, he screwed up as a kid!
Absolutely. Gotta blame the parents and the church.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
I think jellomizer was referring to the fact that hormonal adolescents who do not yet have a fully formed prefrontal cortex have a much higher incidence of indulging in risky, violent, and/or unwise behavior as compared to fully grown adults due to the fact that they lack both the experience and the actual brain grey matter to fully think things through which would help inhibit such adolescent behavior. That does not excuse such behavior, but it does not mean we should treat children as if they were adults who generally have a better ability to control and channel their emotions.
I'm unsure why you believe "adult behavior" is on par with teenage adolescent behavior simply because adults can and do engage in similar behaviors (though it is worth noting that often when adults do this sort of thing, their judgement is impaired by alcohol or drugs which puts them into a more uninhibited mental state similar to juveniles). Psychologists would strongly disagree with you if you're making the case that adults and teenagers have the same incidence of such behavior.
You don't treat a 5 year old like you would a 12 year old... nor a 12 year old like a 16 year old. Even still, one should not treat a 15 year old like an 18 or 21 year old.
Personally, I say send the boy to counseling and to juvenile detention, make the family pay restitution. Wipe his record and seal it when he turns 18 so he can have a normal life. Maybe he'll make better decisions when his brain is fully formed and learn from his mistakes. Maybe not. Giving him a felony record and shoving him in a state prison with hardened felons is not great way to reform this child. It may just turn him into a lifetime criminal with new criminal connections and no job prospects due to his record.
"It's very sad and tragic. He could have very easily come to one of his counselors and asked for help,"
Wow, counselors would help him hack the computer system and change his grade?
I never understood trying to change your grades through that method, usually there is a separate record somewhere, and you would think someone would notice at some point. Yes, failing a test is bad, but getting caught altering it is much worse.
Attempted hacking or arson (or damaging one computer with fire)?
Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
Only problem with that is that the police officer was wrong. Georgia law does not mandate that juveniles be tried as adults for 3rd degree arson - which is what this was (attempt to damage property of another worth $25 or more). So, legally speaking, the kid wasn't arrested - he was taken into custody (this difference is so that adults can legally say they were never arrested if their only contact is with the juvenile system - this means that it doesn't tarnish them for life).
So, he committed a delinquency, not a criminal act (a delinquency being any act that, if it were done by an adult, would be a crime).
So, when the article, based on information from the cop, states:
The boy, who was not identified because he is a minor, faces five felonies, including burglary and arson. Lt. Daniel said the charges could land the young man in prison for several years.
, ... he is wrong. The minor faces 5 delinquencies, not felonies. Even detention at a youth detention facility is not considered prison under the legal system.
"Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
I don't know anything about the kid (other than he's stupid and impulsive enough to try something like this) but locking him up won't make anything better in the long run. When he gets out the only thing he'll be able to do is crime and he'll probably have met plenty of other enterprising individuals who can give him some tips.
All we're really doing is setting this individual up to be a lifelong drain on society.
I'd rather see massive amounts of community service to repay the debt he owes to society. I don't know what this individual's home life is like, and I can't imagine it's great given what he's done, but his punishment should be get an education and then work his ass off to pay for what he's done. No sports, no video games, and no screwing around.
He might not like it, but I suspect he has at least a small chance of turning out to be a decent person and contributing to society if the second approach is followed.
Unless they charge him as an adult, which could happen. So he does (possibly) face five felonies.
I see dumb people.
I prefer drugs to state intervention.
Arson isn't a stupid mistake. Arson can kill people. Whenever arson happens, there might be people at the place that is put on fire, who might die. Whenever arson happens, firefighters put themselves into danger. Even if nobody gets killed or hurt, huge damage can happen. A fifteen year old can understand these things.
"Georgia Public Schools...somebody's gotta build the cars!"
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
The thing is, being "tough on crime" isn't about rehabilitating the convicts, it's about making the jailers feel good about themselves.
This whole "brain is still developing stuff" is utter nonsense anyway. You know when your brain stops developing? Death, that's when. For some reason our society has chosen to infantilize young adults, and then for some reason we're surprised when they act irresponsibly.
So presumably you're willing to pay the $400,000 or so it will cost to keep him in jail "for several years" plus the inevitable public aid, unemployment benefits, food stamps, etc for the rest of his life?
Or would you rather pay a few thousand for counseling and public service monitoring?
Fuck your "lock 'em up" mindset. We already incarcerate more people in this country than any other civilized nation, and it serves no purpose whatsoever other than to fuck up peoples' lives and costs us, the taxpayers, millions of dollars.
But that's what we get when we make the justice system a for-profit operation.
Splendid, and you will pay the absurd amounts of money necessary to keep him shuttling between the courts, prison and probation for the rest of his life.
American justice -- the second biggest demonstration of the broken window fallacy since Operation Iraqi Freedom.
So what are the alternatives? Shoot him? Or set him free with a book of matches and some printer paper?
If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
Splendid, and you will pay the absurd amounts of money necessary to keep him shuttling between the courts, prison and probation for the rest of his life.
American justice -- the second biggest demonstration of the broken window fallacy since Operation Iraqi Freedom.
So what are the alternatives? Shoot him? Or set him free with a book of matches and some printer paper?
Slight failure of imagination on your part there.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
He did the crime (actually several), he must do the time.
If he wants to play big boy games then he must accept big boy penalties. Fuck your PC "Oh but he's a kid with his whole life ahead of him!" bullshit, he's chosen his path, let him reap the consequences.
The former Soviet Union, China, and the US have the largest prison population in the world.
So rather than being PC you would rather that we follow the example of the former Communist countries. You have an unusual view of what makes a good society.
That wasn't a stupid mistake, it was purely intentional with malice.
I wouldn't be surprised if that kid is a psychopath. An extensive mental analysis is necessary.
If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
You gonna destroy the childs life because of a stupid mistake a child would make....
You gonna destroy an adult's life because of a stupid mistake an adult would make? That's what the criminal justice system is *supposed* to do.
Did you try to set fire to your schools property because of a bad grade?
According to TFS he set fire to the computer because he was , "mad and frustrated because he could not hack into the system." I'm not condoning his actions, but who amongst us hasn't, at least, entertained the idea of destroying a computer after simply trying to *use* it? I have bad thoughts about my Windows 7 desktop at work all... the... time. And to quote the movie "Office Space," "PC LOAD LETTER!!? What the fuck does that mean?" - didn't work out so well for that printer, did it?
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Warning: lp0 on fire.
Perhaps prison wouldn't be appropriate for an adult either, here? There is evidence that harsher punishment is counterproductive, increasing the chance of repeat crimes.
Yes, the reason for that is that putting criminals together, and putting minor offenders together with major offenders, socializes them in the ways of crime. They teach each other how to commit crimes. They get sent away for small-time pot dealing and learn how to steal cars and burglarize buildings.
There used to be some well-run juvenile correction centers that actually did work. My friend's brother wound up in one of them. They taught him to read, they taught him a trade (carpentry).
Unfortunately most of those places have been replaced by what amounts to torture chambers run like prisons by sadistic guards. It's the fault of both Democratic and Republican conservatives. It's mostly Republicans, but I can't let Bill Clinton off the hook. http://www.theguardian.com/us-... Tax cuts have eliminated the budgets. Here's the umpteenth expose of the juvenile justice system, by the Chicago Tribune http://www.chicagotribune.com/... That's Rahm Emanuel's territory. At one group home, the staff was billing for "television therapy" when the kids watched movies on TV.
One of the problems is that the American people have turned mean-spirited without compassion or concern for those who are having problems, as demonstrated by some of the posts here. If these people take over, America isn't going to be a very good place to live.
No job offers? I,m disappointed.
Jack of all trades,master of none
The password is pencil.
The mistake reveals a stunning lack of morals
A 15 year-old man not only committed a serious crime (arson), he also tried to cheat — and not in a game, but in the most important (at his age) part of life. And that's age, when one is still supposed to venerate honor, integrity and honesty — even if many of us become more pessimistic about these values later in life. Didn't he just read Mark Twain? Heinlein may be despised by the modern teaching class — not the boy's fault — but Jack London ought to figure prominently on reading assignments...
Though he is hardly the only one such in the nation, I would not want him to some day win a public office, run a bank, or marry my daughter.
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Obviously the kid is not a rational actor (most human beings aren't but we're quite good at lying to ourselves in that respect), but I wonder what made this seem like a good idea to him. I'm not excusing his behavior by any means, but what external factors lead him to believe that 1) this was an acceptable action and 2) a failing grade was serious enough to warrant this action.
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not entirely sure about the universe - Einstein
Actually, you will do stupid things until about age 25. Because that's when your frontal lobe has fully matured.
This lobe is the one thing which determines stuff like "long-term consequences" and "risk calculation". It also explains why teenagers and people in their early twenties regularly pull stupid stunts - they are literally incapable of fully understanding the consequences of their actions.
Now, this doesn't mean that we shouldn't punish them. But we usually don't punish mentally handicapped people as harshly as fully capable persons...
... oh, wait, this is the USA. Scratch the last part.
A good parable, very short, for why we should not condemn the youth. Moral: We were the youth.
http://www.newyorker.com/magaz...
If I didn't smarten up when I was a dumb teen I would be in jail too. I think the same is true for lots of fully functioning, well adjusted people that you know and deal with everyday.
-
He did the crime (actually several), he must do the time.
If he wants to play big boy games then he must accept big boy penalties. Fuck your PC "Oh but he's a kid with his whole life ahead of him!" bullshit, he's chosen his path, let him reap the consequences.
That's just a straw man argument. The actual problem with treating him as an adult is that that is contrary to fact. He is not an adult.
In the state of Georgia a fifteen year-old cannot vote; he cannot purchase liquor; cannot obtain a driver's license, cannot hold a full-time job. The rules we have for minors assume they're incapable of making adult choices. It's logically inconsistent to believe minors are not competent to make responsible decisions, but then claim we should treat them as if they can decide responsibly because they've failed to do so. When have you ever used reasoning like that for anything else? I had a housemate once who decided to become her own herbalist. She went to the herb store and bought a lot of herbal shit and promptly made herself sick. By your logic I should go to her for medical treatment because (a) I previously had reason to believe she was not competent to practice medicine and (b) her subsequent actions proved my suspicions correct.
You don't need some namby-pamby PC mumbo jumbo to know that most teenagers have a penchant for doing spectacularly stupid things, but that *most* of them grow out it. That's common sense, and the law should take that into account. And science actually backs up common sense here. Most people's brains go through a development spurt in their "executive functions" (acting according to long term plans, inhibiting impulsive actions, directing attention) when they're around fifteen. That means there's roughly a 50/50 chance someone under sixteen is neurologically incapable of not acting like a jackass.
So both science and common sense tell us that treating children as if they were adults is irrational and serves no useful purpose. That doesn't mean you do nothing when kids commit crimes. That's a false dichotomy. It means you do something different.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Noobs blame it on the lag.
He's 15, so clearly he must be convicted and sentenced as an adult. That way, he can be rehabilitated, instead of just coddled in juvenile detention.
Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
Yours apparently has some way to go. Or maybe it's too far gone.
The brain isn't one big ball of mush. It has different parts that perform different functions. You get injured in your Broca's area and you won't be able speak or write. I've seen it in stroke patients; it doesn't matter that the rest of their brains is just good as new, they don't have any expressive language. Likewise if your orbital frontal cortex is damaged or not fully developed yet, you're going to act like an ass. Doesn't matter how smart or well-meaning you are.
Teenaged brains can be misleading, because in some ways they're at their lifetime peak. But at the same time they suck at certain things. A smart fifteen year-old can explain the difference between right and wrong, between a smart and stupid action. But he can't be trusted to act in accordance to that kind of knowledge, because among other things the OFC isn't finished yet. This is why parents get fooled into thinking their wonderful children won't do dumb things. You simply cannot expect a teenager to act intelligently because he has knowledge. The knowledge helps, but it does't determine behavior in a fifteen year-old as it does in a thirty year-old.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Teenagers don't have properly functioning frontal lobes so they're practically incapable of planning future consequences of their actions the same way an adult or a 10 year old can. That said, usually selfish, cheating, douchebag teenagers grow up to be unsuccessful, annoying assholes so they might as well get him started with jail now instead of later.
What if the kid's teacher was being unfair or abusive? What if his single mom works three jobs and couldn't give him a ride to school on the day of an exam. Maybe the kid felt like he had no other option. Or maybe the kid its just a kid being stupid... Adults often do worse
Seriously? With a criminal record, he's unlikely to be able to get a full time, long-term job. So he will bounce from one short term job to the next, filling the gaps with unemployment.
Further, he's probably likely to commit more crimes, even if petty crimes like drug use, so he will cost you and me in police time, court time, jail time. And he's more likely to get busted for those petty crimes since he will be living in high-crime, high police areas; whereas a rich kid would not be busted for simple possession a poor kid with no job will be.
Then there's the predictable drain on social services, subsidized housing, and so on.
It is far, far cheaper to pay for this kid's college at an Ivy League school than it is to send him to jail.
That's the part that the "law and order" "lock 'em up and throw away the key" nutjobs fail to understand.
154 posts and no reference to Milton...
Milton Waddams: [muttering] I could set the building on fire.
Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
citation needed.
the actual source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F... which is from 2001, written by a statistician not an economist.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
I'd've thought the answer would be obvious: for the safety of the public at large.
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
this is why they should show videos in schools of kids getting wiped out when jaywalking. If they don't take the example from that and start to take personal responsibility for their own safety then it can only be good for the gene pool
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
And you're telling me you and your friends never did anything stupid? When you were 15 you were as sober as a 30 year-old?
Or maybe treating kids like nothing they do has consequences,
This is what is called a false dichotomy. You don't treat kids like adults who have misbehaved; you treat kids like kids who have misbehaved. Or do you think that a 12 year-old who starts a fire playing with matches should be treated like a 40 year who starts a fire playing with matches, because in the end they did the same thing?
What I'm saying is take the age of the offender into account in how you punish them. This isn't some kind of radical new liberal idea. It's how this country operated until the end of the 20th C.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
[Parents] are responsible for their kids' actions, no?
No, but they are usually on the hook for the bill.
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
Yawn, not this again.
While I do think the US penal system is very broken... this research is trivially shown to be a pile of garbage.
It ASSUMES the only cause of recidivism can be the length of prison sentence, and therefore that relation is cause.
It totally ignores that harder criminals, when caught tend to end up with longer sentences (because, well, they do worse crimes..) and that
these same harder criminals are more likely to not change their ways.
Having spent some significant time with people who actually work with criminals in the prison systems I can tell you that the VERY unpopular
but well proven fact is that there are generally two types of people. The prison psycologists often call them the sheep and the wolves.
The sheep are usually these because of a bad situation or foolish mistake that spun out of control. They were late for a meeting, not thinking,
and crashed into someone in their car killing them. Their personal/family situation got desperate so they had to steal to make things meet. They
didnt usually drink much, but had a few that night, arrived home to find their partner in a screaming rage and punched them. etc. All very stupid
and faulty, but not their usual actions. Punishment usually gives them a pretty big reality check.
The wolves however are very different, and not that rare. To them things are for the taking. They have the 'right' to do these things, and the
punishment is just an unfortunate side effect. Next time they will just be 'tougher' and wont get caught. These people tend to spiral up not down
and little if anything works to reduce their damaging effects on society because they see society as theirs to use/abuse as they want.
Prison is often, but not always, overkill for the sheep - they will usually see their mistake.
Prison is often a requirement for the wolves, because is KEEPS THEM AWAY FROM SOCIETY.
Prison is not primarily a punishment, it is a way to protect society as a whole.
This is where the system is falling down - we are not separating those two groups and treating them suitably... because the crime itself does not
tell you which type they are.
Unfortunately there is a strong feeling among quite a bit of modern society that 'bad boys will become good, they just need more love'. The wolves
live on this..It is their free ride and they know it.
We need to judge more on intent and less on crime.
We need a wider range of 'suitable' punishments, and many more 'unpleasant but not prison' options.
We need to accept that some people should not be part of society.
And we need to stop wishing everyone would just love each other more.. Because some people are good, some are bad. Deal with it.
This kid, of course, needs a damn good kick in the entitlements. Not a prison sentence (yet). Only time will tell where he goes.
Your faith in the regulatory state must remain beyond reproach.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
I'm guessing it was his amygdala.
No, it wasn't premeditated. He premeditated changing his grade on the computer but failed. The fire thing was a spur of the moment act of frustration and fear for the consequences of a bad grade. He was acting exactly like a kid.
Let's say we treat him like an adult as you suggest and he gets 2 years. So, there he is, 17 years old and out, sentence served. Naturally, he should be served alcohol on request since he is an adult, right? Naturally, he'll be able to vote, being an adult and all.
Here's a question for you, what should happen if an adult acts like a kid? Do we try them as a minor?
Don't be confused into thinking you are insightful just because a few morons modded you up.
... for all you know someone spiked his afternoon tea with LSD. Do you think you might want to take a step back in think again?
There may well be issues at hand that you don't quite grasp. And by "may well", I mean "definately are"
Hell
Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
"Followed by The Black Swan"
Which was in 2007, and his day job was an economist in the finance industry while he was writing those.
Edge cases were considered in science long before an economist picked a new name for a gross oversimplification of old ideas. He's very much an anti-statistician and calls them "pseudoscientists".
What is the motivation of your little luddite sig? To say that the views of any expert are worthless and thus climate science if worthless - or is it something less obvious that makes you want to challenge the authority of anyone with a clue?
Gee, switch topics much? I was in Iraq, and I say that you should stop giving a fuck-all about that country and start making the USA something worth defending again.
Eight years in and I hear that we can't make our Country a better place to live because we have to worry about external wars! As undesirable as it is, external wars occur, and are likely to occur again; however, if you think idealists like myself are going to keep lining up to fight them when you're willing to let injustice turn into intolerance within our borders, then you're providing the proof I did the right thing to get out.
It used to mean something to be a citizen of the United States of America. It was both a priviledge and an obligation. We are meant to be the shining star of hope and decency, a grand experiment that government by the people doesn't always turn into Greece's abomination of Democracy (where the masses continually voted away the property and lives of their betters).
Don't tell me that we are just vengeful spiteful haters who are willing to kick a fifteen year old boy with incarceration when all he needs is a stable home and family counselling, which would cost a lot less than the incarceration anyway.
"Crown thy good with brotherhood" Don't you forget it! That's some brotherhood you practice. We are both really lucky that there's an Internet between us, as honestly, I can't fucking stand that you used my time abroad in a war to justify your shitty position.
But if the glove doesn't fit, you must acquit. Catch-22.
It (Cygnus atratus) is a million years old, or more.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
I'm not sure what PC stuff you're talking about. The kid clearly has issues. Your comment is a completely unnecessary, and downright silly, attempt at taking a stab at the left.
That being said, based on current societal values (ie: What society actionably treats as acceptable, rather than what they *say* is acceptable) I think the only thing wrong is that he got caught. Had he succeeded, he would have made an excellent CEO.
ask then answer: do you want to wake up with your bed on fire?
Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
This appears to be an over-indulge child who's parent imparted too much self esteem and not enough boundaries. Assuming for a moment that he has no previous encounters with law enforcement and that he assumes responsibility for the damage that he has inflicted, then I would have no problems with him getting a suspended sentence (he would of course have to plead guilty). If the crime would warrant a 5 year sentence then he should be on probation for 5 years, and if there are no further law enforcement entanglements then his record could be sealed and he can move on with his life. We all know that young people are not always able to evaluate the risk verses reward of certain actions; this is why we have probation, so the a moment of foolishness does not cause them a lifetime of woe.
He did the crime (actually several), he must do the time.
If he wants to play big boy games then he must accept big boy penalties. Fuck your PC "Oh but he's a kid with his whole life ahead of him!" bullshit, he's chosen his path, let him reap the consequences.
This medieval attitude is one reason why the US has the biggest prison population in the world and one of, if not the worst rates of recidivism.
What this kid needs is some help, not "big boy penalties", a.k.a. incarceration and a lifelong criminal record which marks him as "different" from normal people in a way that affects him negatively for the rest of his life. Stop doing that.
What kind of rational human being does this? Did you try to set fire to your schools property because of a bad grade? I'll look past the B&E and unauthorized access.
He is dangerous, to himself and others. If not juvie, then a psych eval and treatment.
He's a kid, not a rational human being. He needs emotional help, like lots of kids (and sadly, lots of adults). Do you honestly think he'll get that help by being thrown in "juvie", excluded and shunned from normal society?
He tried to burn the computer (As a lame attempt to delete the evidence)
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
He could have very easily come to one of his counselors and asked for help... Student: Excuse me, but I'm having trouble hacking into the computer in order to change my grade. Can you please help me? Counselor: Sure hang on... (tap-tap tap)... There you go.
The day Microsoft creates a product that doesn't suck, it will be known as the Microsoft Vaccuum Cleaner!