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Two Gunman Killed Outside "Draw the Prophet" Event In Texas
cosm writes: ABC news reports that two armed gunman were shot and killed outside a "Draw the Prophet" event hosted in Garland Texas. From the article: "The event, sponsored by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, featured cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, and scheduled speakers included Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who has campaigned to have the Quran banned in the Netherlands. The winner of the contest was to receive $10,000." In light of the Charlie Hebdo terrorist attacks, the Lars Vilks Muhammad drawing controversies, and the American show South Park's satirical depiction of the state of Muhammad phobia in the US and elsewhere, is there an end in sight to the madness associated with the representation of this religious figure?
Just organize these events regularly and you'll smoke out the crazy jihadists. Shooting them on the spot is also much more cost efficient than apprehending them.
There, I fixed it for you, and in a way that will give greater understanding of the religion and its "prophet" who married a 6 year old.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
After the Paris "Charlie Hebdo" shooting, it was obvious that such an event, in Texas, would be well protected against similar attacks. Isn't that attack another proof that fanaticism == stupidity?
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
It was the cops who shot the gunmen, so what the 2nd has to do with it, I can't fathom.
I don't care what your belief is, there is a right to turn up and speak your mind. The alternative is a cult - an unquestioned entity that demands belief based on no facts. If your only response to criticism is bullets then your argument is weak, and what you believe in is worth no more than some madmen willing to defend it with bombs, death and fear. Unscientific dross. State your point and then leave. If your point doesn't hold water then we're under no obligation. Killing us won't prove your point, it just reduces our number but not our resolve.
Do they deserve to have a voice? Yes.
Do they have the right to be heard? Yes.
Do their words have to be heard? No.
Say what you will but don't expect everyone to listen.
Well, when all you have to convince people that they should work for you is promises of eternal bliss after death without any kind of proof, you can't really expect nobel prize material to flock to you...
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I see nothing unfortunate in two men willing to take lives over cartoons being killed themselves before they were able to kill anyone.
You find drawings of Mohammed offensive and want to organise a non-violent protest? I support your right to do so.
Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
No. Of course not. Religious madness will not stop as long as religion exists.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
"Texas". That's really the only part of that sentence you need. I would be surprised if the people attending and local homes weren't about as well armed as the police in the article.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
You clearly know almost nothing about him
He's definitely one, the others are something else and something worse because they are prepared to murder him just because he is spouting his beliefs.
Happy now? Or did I disappoint you be being a real person that thinks both sides in this issue are deplorable and not a handy strawman on one side or the other?
I think they're all childish idiots. The people attending that meeting, with their provoking "who can draw the best Mohammed cartoon." Come on, your days at high school are a very long time away and you should behave like an adult now. And the idiot Muslims who think it's necessary to shoot everybody who doesn't have their opinion. We don't live in the Middle Ages anymore you idiots. And if you like killing so much why don't you kill some of your own kind? You're very good at that, we see that daily on TV.
And now get off my lawn, all of you! Crazy children.
-- Cheers!
If we do not stand our ground against the Mohammedics, our only option will be to convert or die. VERY soon, actually. This is a deadly intolerant religion and the lefties who belittle it, are paid by Saudi-Arabia.
Then join with me in BBQ pig in a synagogue. Surely they'd be no reaction to that? I may not share beliefs with them but I can recognise deliberate pissing on beliefs to draw a response when I see it.
That's the level of deliberate stirring we're seeing and it is designed to get a response - bbq in synagogue level squared. If I was in law enforcement in that place I'd make them have their international trollfest way out in the desert so bystanders don't get killed if someone takes the bait.
The others aren't just prepared to murder Wilders. They want to abolish democracy and replace it with sharia law, and kill the Untermenschen i.e. the unbelievers. I don't think fighting for freedom and democracy is as deplorable as fighting against it. Of course, there are many useful idiots who think they can live peacefully with islamists in the same country, believing that it we respect them, they'll respect us. Big mistake.
Don't take this the wrong way, but can you bugger off and take with you everyone who has parroted this again and again? I mean fucking hell, you have a 5 digit ID. Have you been doing this for every single religious/political article for the past 15 years? Don't you ever get bored of it?
Political discussions among geeks are simply more interesting than among most other crowds. I believe it's because we are by nature more willing to delve into the gritty details. Like any subculture, there are biases and stupid memes but these flaws are at least occasionally point out and debated... it's not that we don't have an echo chamber here, it's that ours at least has a skylight.
"two armed gunman were shot and killed"... by whom? Who were they? After reading the article it seems clear that the two gunmen killed were religious fanatics, and the killers were police officers who were defending the event. This should be in the summary, I think
Well, when all you have to convince people that they should work for you is promises of eternal bliss after death without any kind of proof, you can't really expect nobel prize material to flock to you...
Not sure that's the only reason. Some of these people are just looking for something in which they can get deeply involved, out of the ordinary society stuff. They would actually love being enrolled in some armies to fight for a country, kill or be killed, but they just don't see themselves fighting for our western countries. So the actual reason may not really be Santa Claus / God / Mahomet / [...] and the "eternal bliss", but just the desire to fight for something in which they feel more free than within the regular organized and stricter western armies.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Organizing a deliberately provocative event is a clear statement of support for free speech. A clear statement that allowing potentially offensive speech is essential to a free society. Other reactions to Charlie Hebdo - how we have to tread carefully and avoid offense - are utterly wrong.
Terrorists are barbarians, and are a direct threat to civilization. Apparently, the Texan reaction to barbarism is "bring it on".
More power to Texas. I hope other places find the courage to hold similar events.
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
"is there an end in sight to the madness associated with the representation of this religious figure?"
Yes.
But you won't like the answer and it's not politically correct. Ergo, our current political establishment refuses to even admit its existence.
You really can't see any difference? Then you are just being obtuse. Yes if you tried to trespass in a religious building and be offensive, there'd be a response. In particular, they'd tell you to leave and call the police. However this was not in a Mosque, no Muslims were forced to attend. This was something people were doing on their own. However the crazies felt the need to respond.
I've heard about precisely zero cases of Jews going after pig BBQs in the US. Seems they are not very concerned about what you are doing on your own. If you don't respect their religion, oh well, so it goes.
Stephen Fry put it very well:
"It's now very common to hear people say, 'I'm rather offended by that.' As if that gives them certain rights. It's actually nothing more... than a whine. 'I find that offensive.' It has no meaning; it has no purpose; it has no reason to be respected as a phrase. 'I am offended by that.' Well, so fucking what."
http://www.openbible.info/topi...
The difference between Muslims and Christians (especially those in the US), is that the most conservative Muslims actually try to live they way their religion teaches (including not just the Qur'an, but the Old Testament as well), and yes, idolatry is a very serious no-no. Just think if the most conservative Christians would actually live the way Jesus taught.... putting all their energy into feeding the poor, housing and clothing those without, helping the sick... instead we have the most conservative Christians doing pretty much everything opposite of how Jesus' teachings go; they're just not as dedicated as the conservative Muslims are.
Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
I think they're all childish idiots. The people attending that meeting, with their provoking "who can draw the best Mohammed cartoon." Come on, your days at high school are a very long time away and you should behave like an adult now.
Why shouldn't we provoke them? It's a nice, relatively controlled environment with security guards who were able to take them out. We provoke them, they try to murder us, we kill them first. It seems like a very nice system, really. We really should start setting up more jihadi honeypots.
The alternative is what... having these lunatics walking around in our society, on the *brink* of being murderers but not quite there yet, ready to snap on some other occasion when there isn't a SWAT team nearby to take care of them? I'm not really seeing the upside to your plan.
(Obviously, this can be taken too far--the moronic Iraq War was more than just a minor provocation, obviously. But we're talking about drawings here... not dropping bombs.)
Organise a "draw Jesus sodomizing Mary" contest in Texas and you'll get crazy Christian jihadists doing the same thing.
No, you wouldn't. You really, really wouldn't.
If you set up an event specifically designed to insult/offend/antagonise a particular religion, you're always going to get a response like this from someone.
Please stop spouting nonsense: http://www.theonion.com/articl... (NSFW)
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2015...
It may be from jihadwatch,org but the info inside the article, especially the info from the Police " ... that the gunmen were trying to enter the building to shoot the place up when they were stopped ... " reveals how much those moslems hate you guys, the infidels
All they ever want is for all of you to either join them and become a mujahid, or be slaughtered
You seem to think you can sweep it under the carpet as not a problem by being racist about it.
You think you're not being racist because you say "for whatever reason".
Yet, there was absolutely no reason to say "young black males" unless you're implying they're somehow a different type of people, that is, you're defining them as almost non-people. You're effectively saying "If you ignore the non-people, there is no problem".
So no the gun violence is not due to young black males, the gun violence may well be a greater problem in areas with young black males, but the fact they're young black males has fuck all do to with it. It may well be poverty, it may well be because a violent subculture has developed for some reason, but it's got nothing to do with the fact they're young black males. Why? Drop a white kid in and bring him up in the same neighbourhood and he'll turn out EXACTLY the same.
Stop being a racist dick whilst trying to pretend you're not. You're the reason American STILL has massive race problems to this day. You can't separate societal problems from race - you think that race is explicitly linked to it all somehow because you say as much.
QUIT USING THE SUBJECT LINE AS PART OF YOUR COMMENTS!! It was a bad idea when the first person started it and it's still a bad idea!
Don't blame the commenters, blame the Slashdot editors for introducing subject lines to begin with.
If you post as an AC, don't expect me to spend a mod point on you.
Sorry, but no. The ancient Greeks are not related to the current ones (who are ethnically mostly Turkish) in any way. Besides, your Christian religion was a hindrance for Europe for many centuries, not a blessing. It directly contributed to the downfall of the Roman empire, hundreds of wars and lost knowledge.
This is so funny about you nationalists, no matter from where. You are convinced that you are a blood legacy of some master race, but the reality is usually very different.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
If this were in Europe, it would be: "30 people shot by 2 gunmen for religious reasons. Police is negotiating with them". I'm European. Most of us are groveling weaklings. We will go extinct. Barbarians will destroy our civilization. Too much socialism will kill us. USA, you must keep your guns, you must defend yourselves! I like Texas, people carry some balls over there.
Surprise? Surprise? The whole purpose of this contest was to attract a Jihadi to shoot. Why else the extra extra guards?
Perfectly Texas entertainment. I'm calling this a success.
You were *apparently* comparing the drawing of a historical figure on private property to breaking and entering a Jewish place of worship and barbequing a pig. That seemed to be to be a sort of weird analogy, a sign that some piece of your reasoning was mis-calibrated somewhere along the way. It wasn't exactly the most polite thing I've ever written in my life but it wasn't meant to be some kind of vile ad-hominem attack.
I am saying this sincerely, in a non-mocking tone--recalibrate you view of what these events actually are. Yes, Wilders and Gellar are asshats, but I am suggesting that you evaluate their asshatery in the context of the cornucopia of human douchebags in the country. Yes, I'm sure the hurt feelings of Muslims are real--but try and evaluate the inflmatory nature of these cartoons in the context of the Onion cartoon I set you, or the censored South Park episode, or the Piss Christ controversy from the 90s, etc.
Recalibration is something you do with a tool that you know isn't broken but is for some reason giving weird readings. If you want an actual "fuck you, fuck your mother, fuck your dog and please fuck off and die" type of insult then I'm sure you can get one from someone else around here--just keep on defending the viewpoint of the jihadis instead of defending people like Maajid Nawaz, a liberal *Muslim* who does not believe there is anything wrong with drawing Muhammad. He posted a picture of Muhammad to show his solidarity with cartoonists and he received death threats from Muslim jihadis because of it. By sticking up for the right of jihadis to be offended, you are turning your back on genuine moderate reformers like him.
Recalibrate. I'm sure you're not a stupid or bad person... just, recalibrate.
Practically everyone arranges their life around a fairy tale of one sort or another.
Some learn it in a mosque, some in church, some in history and civics class. Yes, that includes Atheists. Just because they don't believe in God doesn't mean they don't believe in a shared mythos. Some are more helpful and practical than others but make no mistake, they are myths.
In America, many organize their lives around the myth that they are temporarily embarrassed millionaires and so consistently vote against their own interests.
Then join with me in BBQ pig in a synagogue.
That is a stupid thing to say in one way, and an insightful thing to say in another. The radical Islamics consider the whole world their temple, and it doesn't matter where you do the things they don't want you to do, they reserve the right to murder you for it. So it's a stupid thing to say because this wasnt done in anyone's temple, and it's an insightful thing to say because it doesn't matter if you do it in their temple, they'll try to kill you for it anyway.
I'd make them have their international trollfest way out in the desert so bystanders don't get killed if someone takes the bait.
That's because you do not believe in the first amendment or freedom of speech, and so you can safely shut up now because nobody sane or interested in building a better society is interested in what you have to say.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Anybody who wants a virgin has never had one.
Just another day in Paradise
and my Christian religion was united with the wisdom of my ancestors and created Europe (and America)
The Christian religion created America in the same way that cancer created chemotherapy. Now, what is the treatment for our capitalism?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Reliance upon the government to protect you after you have insulted someone is not freedom
What exactly is it that you think Government does?
Because collective security is the most basic function of Government.
As an example, if you insult the King of Thailand, the only thing keeping the Thai government from crossing borders to take you in for prosecution is your government.
Or do you think you can defend yourself against the resources of a nation state?
[Fuck Beta]
o0t!
T let's place it in Texas, where the kids are taught to shoot a gun before they can read.
You've never been to Texas, have you?
This is the best story of the day, comment-wise.
Hatred of conservative Texas, hatred of guns, yet still the absolute intolerance of religion and strict belief in the first amendment all combining into a cognitive dissonance (to use a favorite term around here) that must be blowing people's minds.
I love it.
Bbbbbbut crusades. You got an example that's not hundreds of years old?
One of the biggest problems in any polygamous society is getting rid of young men. Every man with 4 wives leaves 3 angry, young, horny men in his wake who got no wives. So Islam came up with the perfect solution, Martyrdom! Just blow yourself up in some mall and get all the virgins you want!
Dumb motherfuckers.
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
So, how many people died when an artist showed his masterpiece of a crucifix in a jar of piss? Or how about the shit-covered Madonna work?
Your biases are showing.
If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
If you are so afraid that you need to carry a gun to work with you, then you may want to consider moving to a safer area.
What utter horseshit. what if you're poor and can't afford the safer area? You can't defend yourself because you work a menial job, or went into bankruptcy after a major medical condition. Guns are the great equalizer and everyone deserves to have them and defend themselves.
On the other hand, I've actually been to Paris and I have seen for myself what kind of weaponry they routinely carry around. You would think that with that kind of firepower they could easily put down any nonsense.
A lot of noise is made about "American gun culture" but it's the Europeans that routinely carry serious firepower around their cities.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
"...then you may want to consider moving to a safer area."
I wish that were so easy. I'm licensed to carry a concealed weapon and carry my pistol pretty much wherever I go. The only time I had to defend myself I was in a very safe area. It just so happens that was the same are where someone decided he was going to start beating the woman who was with him. He took exception to me witnessing the beating and calling the police and decided I would be the next target of his rage. Fortunately, as with most defensive uses of a handgun, I didn't have to fire a shot.
If needing to defend oneself was restricted to specific geographic areas then I would, as you suggest, simply move to a safer area. The problem is you don't know where something will happen and the only question will be whether or not you're prepared.
A provocatively dressed woman isn't coming to shoot people who they disagree with.
Actually, I'm quite all right with provocatively dressed women. Although I'd suggest that they stay safe given the number of animals out there who believe that gives them a license to attack said women.
However, people who are intending to do harm to another person over a cartoon, even if the cartoon was specifically drawn to offend them, are fair game for entertainment in my book. All they need to do is not show up and nothing happens to them. In fact, all they need to do is not show up with a gun to be used with criminal intent, and they'd be fine.
I'm not sure I'd actually encourage entertainment where people are expecting to fire live rounds on a regular basis, but I'm not against a well-defended exercise of First Amendment rights against those who would use violence to try and oppress and silence them.
The event, sponsored by the American Freedom Defense Initiative, featured cartoons of the Prophet Muhammad, and scheduled speakers included Dutch MP Geert Wilders, who has campaigned to have the Quran banned in the Netherlands.
so aparantly they don't really care about freedom. The irony is biting. Cut off your nose to spite your face. While I certainly believe its OK to draw Muhammad, even lampoon him.(along with any and all other religeous figures) and in fact I promote it, you're a total hypocrit if you want to ban the koran. In fact you've proved your just as crazy as the gunman.
But that's not all fanatics have. It's just local flavoring. What their message is is the same as always before: "All your problems are caused by group X. Join me and take your revenge!"
Such memetic viruses don't strike at stupidity but at lack of self-awareness and -control - in other words, immaturity - and consequently, being smart - even Nobel-smart - doesn't help protect against them. In fact, should the infection take hold, all that intelligence will simply be used to construct elaborate rationalizations of the fanaticism's guise which make it even more virulent.
Fanaticism is a memetic disease. If you have lots of angry young people, you get outbreaks, just like with flu. And sooner or later one of these outbreaks mutates into a form that can cause an epidemic, or perhaps even a pandemic. In the 30's, we got fascism which eventually mutated into nazism; in the middle of the century we got small outbreaks of red terrorism, but thankfully general prosperity made the population too resistant for transmission to continue except in much-diluted form; and right now we're seeing an epidemic which is parasiting on Islam. Islam itself isn't the problem, it simply provides a new outer form - like robes for a ringwraith - for the same force that was behind Hitler and has now returned for round n+1. But the heart of this darkness is the same as it has always been.
The question is: what to do about all this? Is this some kind of inevitable function of human biology or merely an artifact from our cultural past? Would it be possible to rid the world of suhc maladjusted memes once and for all, or perhaps develop memes that work as antidotes - for example, surely knowing all this helps notice when someone's trying to pull the trick on you? As noted above, greater general prosperity would help a lot, but is not foolproof, is already being worked on, and perhaps most importantly, current iteration of the fanaticism pandemic seems to be evolving to get around it - bin Laden came from a very privileged background, and many people who have lived their entire lives in the West have gone to join Isis.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Correlation is not causation?
What do you think came first, the high crime rate, or the restrictive gun laws?