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FBI Releases Its Files On DEF CON: Not Amused By Spot-the-Fed

Posted by samzenpus on from the some-games-are-better-than-others dept.

v3rgEz writes: Not surprisingly, the FBI has compiled reports on notorious hacker gathering DEF CON, now released thanks to a Freedom of Information Act request. The files detail the lack of amusement at the Spot-the-Fed game, as well as which conference tracks attract the most interest. "In a bit of FOIrony, the file contains a copy of the Spot the Fed contest rules, including the facetious aside to feds offering t-shirts in exchange for agency coffee mugs."

102 comments

  1. Why be mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Is only game.

    But really, why would they get mad?
    It would be better if they played along and actually tried to hide as best as they could so they could IMPROVE on being incognito.

    1. Re:Why be mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It would be better if they played along and actually tried to hide as best as they could so they could IMPROVE on being incognito.

      Guess the FBI must believe in security through obscurity.

    2. Re:Why be mad by N1AK · · Score: 2

      It would be better if they played along and actually tried to hide as best as they could so they could IMPROVE on being incognito.

      Arguably that's the worst thing they could do: Provide insights into how they try and remain undetected when amongst people who are trying to develop strategies and insights to detect them when there's nothing of value to gain. They'd be better off intentionally fitting stereotypes and doing a poor job of hiding at DefCon, then it might lure people into a false sense of security.

    3. Re: Why be mad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should get out the tec business. The government outsourced so many american jobs that would teach them a lesson. Now they want Americans to hack for them . sorry i dont do that . some people should tried for treason for what they did to this country.

    4. Re:Why be mad by meta-monkey · · Score: 1

      I just read the document...I saw no reaction from the feds at all. There wasn't event commentary. Just a list of things, including the rules of the game. Really, it's just "attached is the list of rules for "spot the fed."" And that's it.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
  2. wasted efforts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Why not play spot the foreign intelligence agents? Wouldn't their mugs be more intriguing to obtain? I mean, they probably have listening devices built into them that are activated by hot water or microwave ovens.

    1. Re:wasted efforts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      They are at the Kaspersky booth

  3. Silly fascists have no sense of humor by Indy1 · · Score: 4, Funny

    someone needs to throw a pie at em, liven things up a bit : )

    --
    Lawyers, MBA's, RIAA? A jedi fears not these things!
    1. Re:Silly fascists have no sense of humor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      aka the Canadian method.

    2. Re:Silly fascists have no sense of humor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That works! Spot a fed, and throw a pie in their face! I vote for blueberry - it is heck to get out of their nice white shirts!

    3. Re:Silly fascists have no sense of humor by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      I think the corporate fascist thugs in FireFly like blueberry pie, explains the hands

    4. Re:Silly fascists have no sense of humor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Throw a pie at a fed, get life imprisonment for attempted murder of a federal agent plus a bunch of other bullshit, trumped up, double-dipped charges.

    5. Re:Silly fascists have no sense of humor by stealth_finger · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Throw a pie at a fed, get life imprisonment for attempted murder of a federal agent plus a bunch of other bullshit, trumped up, double-dipped charges.

      Unless you're black, in which case they'll just flat out murder you.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  4. U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are seeing many extreme examples of U.S. government corruption.

    1. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Does that mean that other countries are EXTREMELY EXTREMELY CORRUPT? Because I don't actually have to regularly bribe people here to get things done.

    2. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by roman_mir · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, it just means that you are not actually doing anything of any importance or interest.

      --
      You can't handle the truth.
    3. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by tlambert · · Score: 4, Insightful

      We are seeing many extreme examples of U.S. government corruption.

      Uh... what other governments in supposedly non-corrupt jurisdictions respond to "Freedom Of Information Act" requests with ... actual information?

      Try getting information on e.g. "Pussy Riot" out of the Putin government.

    4. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      it just means that you are not actually doing anything of any importance or interest

      Just remember that as the cost of surveillance gets lower and lower, so does the hurdle of "importance". Eventually it'll get to the point where your life is a game of nickel slots for the agents who've got nothing better to do with their time and figure they'll get 5 cents of entertainment from it.

    5. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Plenty of governments in Europe don't have secret courts to decide the fate of people who are forced to keep quiet under the threat of violence. I don't think Russia has them, but it wouldn't hurt you to have higher standards than "well, at least Obama hasn't sent me to the Gulag yet".

    6. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tell that to my co-worker who just last year sent his truck to Ghana so he could store it at his secondary residence there. He had to arrange for a friend to pick up the truck within a few hours of its arrival because otherwise the customs guards had a habit of "impounding" vehicles they liked with no way for the owner to get their vehicle back.

    7. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plenty of governments in Europe don't have secret courts

      I think you'll find the reason that you haven't heard of them is because they're secret.

    8. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You clearly haven't dealt with the US government before. If they accuse you of anything you're f'd before you get your "day in court". Freedom of Information Act request is merely to appease the masses / media and generally won't be complied with as there are too many loop holes for why things can be denied. Some fed doesn't want the fact they eat donuts every morning? Than it's a national security black out.

    9. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by cavreader · · Score: 2

      Secret courts? Are you talking about the FISA court? Those proceedings are indeed kept confidential but it is hardly secret. As a matter of fact it has been around since 1978. Any information collected under the auspices of a FISA warrant cannot be used in any court against any defendant. And Russia uses it's transparent judicial system to efficiently prosecute anyone who dares challenge the state or attempts to organize political protests. The fact is the Russian or Chinese judicial systems are opaque and hardly ever publicly investigated or even debated while the US judicial system is debated and criticized endlessly.

    10. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Try getting information on e.g. "Pussy Riot" out of the Putin government.

      If you use Putins Russia as an example for when your government has gone too far then you don't have any stopping points until you get there.
      There is always someone who is worse so if you use someone worse as an argument for a behavior you might just as well go full Godwin and say that everything is fine until you hit Nazi Germany.
      This is why we don't accept the "someone else gets to do that" argument from 8-year olds. We expect them to be better than the worst they can find.

      I'm not in a position to say what kind of government you want, but if you want my recommendation I would say that you should compare it to Canada or perhaps Norway more often than you compare it to Russia and China.

    11. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by michelcolman · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Tell that to people in the US who had their cash, car or even house seized because it might be connected to a crime. Traveling with $10000 cash? Surely that must be drug money, no matter how plausible your excuse is, we'll take it to buy game consoles, zambonis or margarita machines. You can always try to get it back by hiring a lawyer and going to court, good luck.

    12. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh please, there is nothing to debate abot russian juridical systems. US is only moving towards that "no need to debate" territory. Maybe you can still correct the issues. Then again, even comparing yourself to Russia doesn't look good. What's next? "hey, we may be worse than russia, but look at north korea! Now they are BAD"

    13. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by IamTheRealMike · · Score: 1

      Uh... what other governments in supposedly non-corrupt jurisdictions respond to "Freedom Of Information Act" requests with ... actual information?

      Eh? Perhaps I'm mis-reading your sentence, but FOIAs are quite commonplace throughout the developed world. And yes they often return useful information.

      Try getting information on e.g. "Pussy Riot" out of the Putin government.

      Try doing a FOIA for info on Anwar al-Awlaki, notorious freedom of speech abuser up until the point he got drone striked. See how far you get.

    14. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do not confuse corruption (which is small-scale, even if widespread) with tyranny (which is big-scale, even if it's just one single person doing it).

    15. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by cavreader · · Score: 1

      At no time did I say the US deserves a free pass for it's actions. But that same free pass is constantly being extended to countries such as Russia, NK, and Iran. It's come down to nobody can do any wrong and if they are doing something wrong it was because the US forced their hands.

    16. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Any information collected under the auspices of a FISA warrant cannot be used in any court against any defendant.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/P...

    17. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should re-read the information on your link. Pay close attention to the care taken to identify whether the target involves a US citizen in the US or abroad. Upon determination that a US citizen is involved the rules change and a search warrant is required from the regular, non-FISA, court. FISA warrants are used in cases where one or multiple parties are foreign nationals and used to gather enough information in order to apply for a normal warrant. Also the following statement: "A judge can rule evidentiary material inadmissible if it is suspected that the evidence was obtained illegally". Quoting law enforcement officials is pointless because their opinion really doesn't matter. It is the court system that makes the final determination and that determination can be challenged by any defendant charged with a crime.

    18. Re:U.S. government is EXTREMELY CORRUPT. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would say you are naive or misinformed. After all, they are secret.

  5. cliche by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "We at the FBI have no sense of humor".gif

    1. Re:cliche by QuasiEvil · · Score: 1

      ...have no sense of humor that they're aware of, anyway. I personally find them quite amusing from time to time.

    2. Re:cliche by DeathElk · · Score: 1

      Foster: Yeah, and we're not gonna fall for a banana in the tailpipe.
      Axel Foley: [mocking him] You're not gonna fall for the banana in the tailpipe? It should be more natural, brother. It should flow out, like this - "Look, man, I ain't fallin' for no banana in my tailpipe!" See, that's more natural for us. You been hanging out with this dude too long. [points at penny loafer, brown suit wearing white guy]

    3. Re:cliche by Dog-Cow · · Score: 1

      Written by someone who doesn't know what "sense of humour" means.

  6. Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 3, Informative

    Looks like typical bureaucratic language. I think there is some kind of law that says all reports must be written in in passive voice and with no humor at all. I'd bet some of the Feds found Spot the Fed humorous...

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    1. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Right, it pretty much amounts to "They have a spot the fed contest, details attached".

    2. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Em+Adespoton · · Score: 1

      The feds I've talked to at conferences generally don't mind, as long as there's no associated publicity that goes outside the conference -- that is, they don't want to be on someone's blog, and especially don't want to show up on a news site. Probably because they're at the conference on the government dime.

    3. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It seems to be a mutually agreed upon lack of irritation with each other

      However, get one reporter in the mix trying to create a story about buying themselves a hacker and all hell breaks loose

    4. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 5, Interesting

      The feds I've talked to at conferences generally don't mind, as long as there's no associated publicity that goes outside the conference -- that is, they don't want to be on someone's blog, and especially don't want to show up on a news site. Probably because they're at the conference on the government dime.

      Yup. Those could be a CLE (Career Limiting Event). For the Feds, especially those with an interest in tech, such events are a low stress event and can be fun; even if they envy some of the tech as they have to work with tech that often is described as yesterday's technology tomorrow. The ones I've worked with have good senses of humor and, contrary to the opinions voiced here, have no desire to trample on anyone's rights.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    5. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by tlambert · · Score: 3, Informative

      Looks like typical bureaucratic language. I think there is some kind of law that says all reports must be written in in passive voice and with no humor at all. I'd bet some of the Feds found Spot the Fed humorous...

      Passive voice effectively disclaims responsibility, and disclaims chain of responsibility, by making a statement without anyone owning it. It's also frequently used as an argument-without-evidence technique.

    6. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Lol, that was my first year going there at the Riv. Someone also replaced an ATM there with a fake one to skim cards and it was spotted within half an hour. I guess some attendees work with ATMs and spotted it. From then on all ATMs at the Riv were turned off during the conference.

      Now during DefCon weekend the Riv hosts RollerCon, hundreds of chicks in roller skates skating in circles. Accidentally walked through the Riv a couple years ago and got to see it.

    7. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      I think there is some kind of law that says all reports must be written in in passive voice

      But, honestly, anybody old enough (by which I mean over around 30) who had a decent enough education had passive voice hammered into us for many many things.

      Pretty much anything which was intended to be a factual reporting of something is supposed to be in passive voice.

      So much so that when Microsoft introduced their annoying grammar checker it would give me warnings that I was writing in passive voice. Unfortunately I was writing technical stuff, and had no intention of writing "and then I'm all like pew pew, take that sucker".

      By the time you're talking about anything written within the FBI, you're going to have this be even more pervasive.

      I'd bet some of the Feds found Spot the Fed humorous...

      Don't they surgically remove the sense of humor?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    8. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by rtb61 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's called research. Police types going to one of those events will never be in trouble as long as they write a follow up report and attend a debrief if requested. In fact they would receive browny points for doing so. So feel free to attend them all, see if you can be spotted but do not forget the follow up observational report, including whether you were or not you were spotted, how you were spotted and whether or not you traded a mug for a T shirt (ain't nothing wrong with that, unless the mugs were not provided for that purpose ie not stolen). Showing a sense of humour ie having fun when you are annoying some and just some people, promotes good relations with the public. Two way street there, fellows. When it comes to computer crime the best resources is not the FBI (most certainly not the NSA the NSA are foolishly proud to be law breakers) but a public that will support the efforts of quality responsible policing. So open a booth and hand out, no wait, swap mugs and a good T-shirt for naughty T-shirts (do not forget a biological containment device for the sweaty T-shirts).

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    9. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difficult isn't with any single government bureaucrat, but with the monolith of bureaucracy, which really doesn't have protecting anyone's constitutional rights in mind. In the face of achieving some goal, it's not like anyone steps back and asks is this legal.

      Anymore, I've started supporting public unions as they are less corrupt than management (seriously), and half-assed hold management to trifling matters like the law.

    10. Re: Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      The Hoover era aside, many of the Feds were there because they wanted to help protect people and joined the agencies because they wanted to use their talents to make a difference. Yes, they could make a lot more in the civilian world but would lack the satisfaction they got by doing what they were doing. They didn't waste time chasing singers but we're looking for real bad guys bent on hurting us. Cuffing some guy who wanted to make a statement by killing a bunch of people was their goal, one that I can respect. I sat in meetings where they were very concerned about doing it the right way, I.e. Within the Constitution, because as they said "those are our rights as well." I guess I just have a different perspective. As an aside, I'm not sure why you got a Troll mod for expressing your opinion, because I think openly expressing concerns and understanding why you have them is important to addressing them and fixing what gave you that impression.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    11. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's also frequently used as an argument-without-evidence technique.

      Prove it!

    12. Re: Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

      I hate the "new" /. My reply was directed to another comment and it got posted to yours.

      --
      I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    13. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The ones I've worked with have good senses of humor and, contrary to the opinions voiced here, have no desire to trample on anyone's rights.

      Having no desire to trample on anyone's rights isn't enough, and doesn't stop people from trampling on others' rights anyway. There needs to be a concerted effort not to trample on anyone's rights, not just a lack of intention to do so.

      I mean, if you kill someone, it doesn't have to be first-degree murder for them to be dead.

    14. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Well played, sir. Well played.

      --
      https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
    15. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Notabadguy · · Score: 1

      Indeed.

      I went to DefCon 2005, and got spotted. It was quite friendly. During one of the keynotes, someone shouted out that they had spotted a fed, and pointed at me - then I was asked up on stage for a series of Q&A.

      A military haircut, shirt tucked into your pants, and wearing socks with sandals was apparently enough of a giveaway. I did get a "I'm the Fed" T-shirt, and it was quite fun.

    16. Re:Spot the Fed comments in TFA were pretty tame by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's not passive voice, that's imperative mood.

  7. Spot-the-Nerd game by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1
    FBI in such cases must investigate if some "hack(s)" may endanger U.S.A. (and its ally(ies), including my own nation, Greece) -since so much critical infrastructure depends on IT-, and/or, may be used against any enemy(ies) - also must investigate if some "hacher(s)" is/are of the enemy(ies)... AND (the most important, but least glorious...) PROTECT THE HACKER(S) (as it does with any convention(s)/conference(s), i.e., assembly(ies) of many people).

    This "Spot-the-Fed game" is stupid - don't kid yourselves kids: the FEDS are there basicaly for your protection... they are bored, as any nanny is!

    --
    Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    1. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by countSudoku() · · Score: 2, Insightful

      This is the same FBI who in the 1950's spent two years investigating the song Louie Louie and the performers and fans of The Kingsmen and came up with what they usually come up with; nothing of interest. Scully and Mulder are a fantasy. The FBI comes to DEF CON because they are about 10 years behind the rest of the world in cybersecurity ops. Plain and simple, the private sector is many years beyond what we currently think of as their current state. i.e. they are hiding any really new ideas and gear for "security purposes" but that's just a bullshit call to hide their questionable and possibly illegal intentions and devices. No, they are genuinely embarrassed at just about every turn these days. Consider this; if you are a top cybersecurity chap are you going to waste your career by working at a shitty gubment shop that activity undermines you, pays you a fraction of real world pay, and generally pushes you into questionable activities and/or makes you go Snowden, or are you going to work at a fun company and do interesting work for better pay for possibly less hostile bosses? Join the US Cybersecurity Forces Today(if you are a low-level script kiddie looking for crap-work)!

      --
      This is the NSA, we're gonna geet U h@x0r5! Also, what is a h@x0r5?
    2. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Holy (f)uck(ing) p(ar)en(t)he(ses) ... (what) t(h)e ((fuck)) is (wr)on(g) wi(t)h (u)??

      It's English, not LISP.

    3. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1
      Did they really investigated the song Louie Louie (by the way, great song!) and the performers and fans of The Kingsmen? Well, ok, i am sure they had some reason (don't forget that THE enemy at that time -and it was my nation's, i.e., Greece, enemy also- had some very "artistic" ways to do damage)! But please agents, not Louie Louie...

      Anyway, as i wrote, i think they are basically there to protect the convention/conference, as it does with any large gathering of people - if a convention/conference about Sudoku puzzles may attract a large group of people, the FEDS will be there!

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    4. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1

      Holy (f)uck(ing) p(ar)en(t)he(ses) ... (what) t(h)e ((fuck)) is (wr)on(g) wi(t)h (u)??

      It's English, not LISP.

      Sorry dude, you are right, i was also writting some code (not LISP thank God!), and... it just happened! But to be honest i usually overuse parentheses... sorry.

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    5. Re: Spot-the-Nerd game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No they aren't. If they were then they'd be DEFCON employees for the duration. But they buy their tickets or agency buys 1 for them. They are there for intelligence purposes.

    6. Re: Spot-the-Nerd game by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1

      I am sure they do some non-convention-protection intelligence (they are the FEDS!), but i think they mostly do just the usual convention-protection (as our own Greek internal intelligence service does in any "Ouzo and Retsina" happening) - and they also do their usual anti-infiltration check by not notifying the organizer for the presence of some (or all) agents.

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    7. Re: Spot-the-Nerd game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. The FBI mandate does not include nor condone protection. They enforce the law once it is broken. Nothing more.

    8. Re: Spot-the-Nerd game by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1

      No. The FBI mandate does not include nor condone protection. They enforce the law once it is broken. Nothing more.

      YES - (in this case) some intelligence, but mostly just "usual" convention-protection: FBI Quick Facts (and from there many more info).

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    9. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What they don't tell you is that "Spot-the-Nerd" is the game the Feds play. Joke's on you. Your prize: hand-cuffs.

    10. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ehh, I don't deny that the FBI does real good legitimate policing work for society. They do help go after bad guys and watch out for potential attacks and such. But they frequently trample on the constitution and break laws (Stingray secrecy and the associated parallel construction, warantless GPS tracking, etc.). The FBI is also currently running a strong campaign to convince congress outlaw computer/device encryption. That is unarguably bad for individual rights and society in general.

    11. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's spit coffee on the screen funny. Although, you do understand that you have just won the spot-the-nerd game.

    12. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Is it possible for you to write a single post without mentioning the fact that you're Greek?

    13. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by aussie_a · · Score: 1

      Look. He's just really proud of his nation. If you weren't American (like me. I'm pretty proud of my homeland i.e. Australia) then you'd be reminding everyone where you come from as well!

      It's something us non-Americans (i.e. Australians, like me) do so we know whose opinion to actually pay attention to.

    14. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who says I'm American? But no, I don't go around touting my nationality everywhere.

    15. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Look. He's just really proud of his nation.

      We call that irony.

    16. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1

      Because i just wrote this comment, i noticed yours. I am "the proud Greek", and i am glad a barbarian (!?) like you understand it. I mention so often that i am Greek not only because i am proud for my ethnicity but also for what you also wrote: "It's something us non-Americans (i.e. Australians, like me) do so we know whose opinion to actually pay attention to.". And i do it out of honesty actually, plus of language AND, most importantly, cultural differences in a mostly American site. By the way, i advised many times this "anonymous" coward(s) complaining (for my right-wing ideology!) to login...

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
    17. Re:Spot-the-Nerd game by antiperimetaparalogo · · Score: 1

      Look. He's just really proud of his nation.

      We call that irony.

      We Greeks call "irony"... "irony"!

      --
      Antisthenes: "Wisdom begins by examining the words/names." - excuse my English, i am (slightly...) better with my Greek!
  8. DEFCON Now Introducing "Spot the lying traitor" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Extra points and a tshirt to anyone who finds Keith Alexander.

  9. Maybe it's time to expand ... by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 1

    Maybe it's time ot expand - have "spot the fed" contests at protests, on campus, etc. And add "spot the rat" (confidential informer).

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:Maybe it's time to expand ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Good activists are paranoid. If you find yourself in a protest or hot-button-topic-event of any sort, you should have one of your own mental cores dedicated to the 'Spot the Fed' process.

    2. Re:Maybe it's time to expand ... by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      It was really funny watching the local violent anarchists tear each other apart with suspicions and accusations after a few of them were arrested for environmental terrorism. Their group went from over 20 down to under 5 and the arrests were still happening. In the end, one thing became clear: none of the people they were accusing of being the "mole" really was.

      Looking back now, the "confidential informant" probably wasn't even a member of their group, but some NSA guy in a data center somewhere.

      The lesson, of course: If you can't say it to the CI's face, you don't need to say it. Ever. True, that may reduce the group's opportunity for crime, but that is a small price to pay to maintain your Freedom. ;)

      Then again, Anarchists don't seem to feel "free" unless they think they can take away my right to Governance by the People. I guess it works out better for groups that just want to be heard, and sway opinion. Then speech is the goal of the protest, and the CI is not a threat unless combined with illegal police action. Which, perhaps, is being combated by civilian-operated video surveillance. (cell phone cameras)

    3. Re:Maybe it's time to expand ... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      "When four sit down to conspire, three are government agents, and one is a fool."

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  10. We are not amused by PPH · · Score: 2

    n/t

    --
    Have gnu, will travel.
  11. ss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    When I wore the black hat and did time (thanks egold) it was the SS and not the FBI that found me. Does the SS get any special treatment at those events?

    PS,
    No, I am not in the black hat business anymore.

    1. Re:ss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not?
      Pretty sure SS falls into the 'Fed' bin, so long as you allow 'Fed' to stand for 'Federal Agent' and not "Federal Bureau of Investigation Guy"

    2. Re:ss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please explain who or what "egold" was or is.

    3. Re: ss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Egold is like Bitcoin.

    4. Re: ss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Basically you would own virtual gold (that was backed by real gold supposedly). Unbeknownst to many, the feds in essence 'took it over' claiming it was used for money laundering, and tracked down a number of people. Many cases were closed for years because the feds didn't want people to know they ran the site. I'm sure Wikipedia has a decent article about egold. It probably vanished somewhere around d 2008 I'm guessing. I sold credit cards on dark market back then and used egold for everything and would cashed out for physical property.

    5. Re: ss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Closed=sealed
      Oops. Sorry.

    6. Re: ss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The SS? I thought they were only after the Jews.

    7. Re:ss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I wore the black hat and did time (thanks, my own criminal behaviour)

      FTFY

  12. The FBI is not your friend. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Most of you have no clue what the FBI is really about.

    I just typed a bunch of stuff that would have shocked some of
    you but I thought better of posting it, because I don't need any more
    visits from black Suburbans.

    1. Re:The FBI is not your friend. by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      Just a Suburban, you're penny ante! Get some black helicopters hovering around your place and we'll be impressed

    2. Re:The FBI is not your friend. by dibos · · Score: 1

      Pffft, everyone knows they use WHITE minivans.

      --
      Robots. Lots of robots.
    3. Re:The FBI is not your friend. by tehcyder · · Score: 1

      Most of you have no clue what the FBI is really about.

      I just typed a bunch of stuff that would have shocked some of you but I thought better of posting it, because I don't need any more visits from black Suburbans.

      And how do you know they aren't recording what you type via a powerful microwave key-logger anyway?

      --
      To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it
  13. As someone who spotted a Fed.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm loving this article! Think it was 14 or 15 and "spotted" a fed, tried to chat him up and tell him about the game. He got up and *RAN* out of the talk, and out of the entire conference. Didn't see him back the entire time..

    1. Re:As someone who spotted a Fed.. by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Do people always flee the scene when you try and chat them up?

  14. I Spotted the Fed by dave562 · · Score: 1

    Defcon 2, Sahara Hotel. 1 of 5.

  15. Is being abused, but they're nice guys by Etherwalk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    > The ones I've worked with have good senses of humor and, contrary to the opinions voiced here, have no desire to trample on anyone's rights.

    Generally true--you've mostly got a lot of really good guys working intelligence. Most of the concern around massive surveillance--and part of the problem they really have a problem understanding it--is not what the guys in control of it now *do*, it's the *potential* for the wrong guy or guys to use it for evil.

    Right now you have some *REALLY* sketchy stuff going on even with good guys in charge. Most notably, you've got a problem in that it's being used against criminals indirectly, which is a gross violation of the rights of a lot of criminals. Think parallel construction type projects. Wasn't there a big treasure trove of tax evasion data that mysteriously appeared a while back? Here we go: http://www.politico.com/mornin...

    That *is* almost certainly our government or governments colluding to violate the rights of criminals, but the people doing it don't *care* because it's criminals.

    I am a little upset about that because it's unconstitutional and because we overcriminalize generally, so almost everyone is breaking the law and they have something on everyone if they care to use it.

    I am *much* more concerned with the potential for misuse not with the generally good guys dealing with it today, but by the bad guys who come in tomorrow, or the good-ish guys who get too tempted knowing how much easier it would be if they blackmail a senator or two based on knowledge of who they've slept with or what their daughter was up to on spring break. You're fundamentally dealing with power politics with an apparatus that could put a man like Frank Underwood in control of the country for decades, all without real transparency or accountability.

    Most politicians don't have anywhere near that level of savvy--we are mostly saved by a combination of incompetence and a lot of really great guys in the intelligence community who would go a long way to prevent that kind of thing if they find out about it--but if we don't put incredibly good *processes* in place, engineered to prevent that kind of takeover, then it *will* happen if it has not already. Think what J. Edgar Hoover could have done with that information. Think what McCarthy did without it, and how much worse it could have been.

  16. them fedz r teh haxx0rz nao by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    also not amused. cuz dey SMRTR DAN U!

  17. FBI Humor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes Ma'am we are the FBI have no sense of humor we are aware of.

  18. Who actually attends the conference? by HannibalRex · · Score: 1

    I didn't think anyone actually stepped foot into the actual conference, it's just a week of paid vacation in Vegas by the company... Mostly I just like to see if I'm as geeky looking walking around with my two-bit Blackhat bag of swag.

  19. We are not amused by stooo · · Score: 1

    We are also not amused by agencies spying...

    --
    aaaaaaa
  20. Re:Starlight Glimmer 2016 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    +1

  21. Best Spot the Fed Story by cgfsd · · Score: 1

    The best Spot the Fed story I have heard was several years ago when DEFCON was at the Riviera.
    The woman gets up and picks out the Fed. When asked how she knew, she became sheepishly quiet. After some prodding she admitted sleeping with him and while he was still asleep she went through his wallet and found his ID.

    Counter spying at its best!!