Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

FAA: Big Tech Challenges For Massive Washington, DC Warbirds Flyover

Posted by samzenpus on from the blast-from-the-past dept.

coondoggie writes: It will be one of the largest gatherings of flying WWII aircraft in history as 56 famous vintage warbirds will fly through restricted airspace over the National Mall Friday in remembrance of the 70th anniversary of VE-Day or Victory in Europe Day. The huge flyover, dubbed "The Arsenal of Democracy," of so many different types of aircraft – from seaplanes to fighters and the only flying B-29 Superfortress – was no easy undertaking. The first plane should be visible along the National Mall around 12:10 p.m. With roughly 90 seconds between formations, the Flyover will end by 1 p.m. Reagan National Airport will be closed to commercial traffic from 12 noon to 1 p.m. to accommodate the flights. The Flyover will be streamed live here.

54 comments

  1. The Arsenal of Democracy by Iamthecheese · · Score: 0

    Six free units, six foreign legions immediately. I always delete or give away the foreign legions immediately; by that time in the game I'm building units with way more experience. But the six free unite makes a real difference when you're supporting enough for a war.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
  2. We should divert it .. by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 3, Funny

    They should overfly Texas, just so we can watch the crazies on Fox and the far right lose it (Jade Helm prequel).

    --
    "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    1. Re:We should divert it .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The B29 is from Texas, the CAF... Commemorative Air Force (formally Confederate Air Force).

    2. Re:We should divert it .. by JonWan · · Score: 1

      Dang wasn't logged in......

  3. The only security needed is for the warbirds. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every single one of those war birds are irreplaceable; unlike all - without exception - the elected officials and bureaucrats. In my daydream, I just imagined that B-29 taking a little detour and dropping a payload of good 'ole fashioned WWII 500 pounders on the NSA for Freedom and US of A!

  4. Please post to YouTube? by Rudisaurus · · Score: 1

    Could someone on the spot please video it and post it to YouTube? I'd love to see this but won't be able to catch the live-stream and certainly can't be in DC for the occasion. Would really appreciate it!

    --
    licet differant, aequabitur
    1. Re:Please post to YouTube? by lazarusdishwasher · · Score: 1

      I found the following on the page hosting the live feed. "The full video archive of the Flyover will also be available within 24-48 hours after the event for those who can’t view the event live."

  5. Re:How much does this cost taxpayers? by dugancent · · Score: 1, Redundant

    No one "wonders why"; we know exactly why. Years upon years of war and unfunded securities.

    --
    SJWs are the new boogeyman. -Me
  6. What tech challenges? by Zargg · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't get it, what is the big tech challenge to overcome here? Seems like the biggest issues are legal (exemptions from the FAA already made though) or logistical.

    1. Re:What tech challenges? by hawguy · · Score: 1

      I don't get it, what is the big tech challenge to overcome here? Seems like the biggest issues are legal (exemptions from the FAA already made though) or logistical.

      I don't get it either, it sounds like both of the tech challenges mentioned in the article (1000 ft altitude and 90 second space) could be resolved through the use of an altimeter and a stopwatch. As interesting as this may be to airplane buffs, I don't see the relevance to Slashdot unless the planes are piloted by robots... or at least have frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.

    2. Re:What tech challenges? by tlambert · · Score: 4, Informative

      I don't get it, what is the big tech challenge to overcome here? Seems like the biggest issues are legal (exemptions from the FAA already made though) or logistical.

      Lack of modern istrumentation, radar transponders, and other equipment which is normally used by modern air traffic control systems. You will recall that the newly overhauled system went online 7 days ago (30 Apr 2015):

      http://www.usatoday.com/story/...

      The primary issue won't be in the corridor itself, it'll be getting into and out of it from shared public airspace, and avoiding collisions between the aircraft themselves, many of which do not have anti-collision systems or even radars.

    3. Re:What tech challenges? by shri · · Score: 1

      I am sure there is a very significant technical challenge getting those awesome aircraft back in the air and more importantly getting them back on the ground safely. However, the link is pure and simple link bait and an extremely low quality rehash of the official website.

      I assumed coming from a publication like Network World, there would be some geekery in the article... but was left sadly disappointed.

    4. Re:What tech challenges? by Deadstick · · Score: 1

      I am sure there is a very significant technical challenge getting those awesome aircraft back in the air

      The only challenge is the size of the checks. These aircraft have been restored and maintained just as they were in the 1940's -- the only difference is that it's been done by well-paid commercial mechanics making a lot more than the enlisted mechanics who did it in the 1940's, or by retirees doing it for the love of it. The money comes from either wealthy enthusiasts or preservation groups that sell tickets to airshows.

    5. Re:What tech challenges? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The primary issue won't be in the corridor itself, it'll be getting into and out of it from shared public airspace, and avoiding collisions between the aircraft themselves, many of which do not have anti-collision systems or even radars.

      If the pilots are WWII pilots they know how to fly in formation without all that electronic gadgetry. By comparison today's pilots couldn't navigate across a field without the GPS and other electronic aids. And yes the B-29 should drop a payload on Capitol Hill as proof the veterans do not recognise a corrupt, immoral government.

    6. Re:What tech challenges? by brambus · · Score: 2

      Lack of modern istrumentation, radar transponders, and other equipment which is normally used by modern air traffic control systems.

      That's just BS. First of all, the instrumentation to fly an assigned heading and altitude must already be there, otherwise they just wouldn't be certified to fly. Secondly, there's no problem installing a modern radio stack in an old airplane - you can even have it tucked away in the cockpit so it doesn't interfere with the "old style" cockpit look too much. Tons of old airplanes are retrofitted with new avionics all the time. All you really need is the two boxes near the bottom of this instrument panel (retrofitted to a 1940s era Piper Cub with an admittedly quite pimped out instrument retrofit, the original had far fewer instruments, but still at least a compass and an airspeed and altitude indicator).

      The primary issue won't be in the corridor itself, it'll be getting into and out of it from shared public airspace

      You do know that ATC doesn't control all aircraft, right? Do you know what VFR means? How about class G airspace? Instruments aren't needed for all navigation and many pilots aren't even certified for instrument-only flight (look up "Instrument Rating") - in fact, these pilots are 100% self-reliant. ATC can provide traffic advisories and suggested headings if you ask them, but they don't have to and aren't even obligated to (if ATC is overloaded, VFR traffic gets dropped first).

      and avoiding collisions between the aircraft themselves, many of which do not have anti-collision systems or even radars.

      Tons of privately owned aircraft do not have TCAS and civilian aircraft radar isn't even intended to and cannot show other aircraft. Still, people manage to survive fly-ins and other large-scale GA gathering events even at uncontrolled airports. The key, that every pilot knows, is: look before you turn, say intentions before you act.

    7. Re: What tech challenges? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It got my attention, out here in the hinterlands. Hadn't heard of the flyover, or the post, its not on my list of mil sites or communication sites, so ...

    8. Re:What tech challenges? by Jeremi · · Score: 1

      I don't get it, what is the big tech challenge to overcome here?

      The biggest challenge is putting up the miles of anti-gyrocopter netting to keep the event pest-free.

      --


      I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
    9. Re:What tech challenges? by recharged95 · · Score: 1

      Issue a mandatory NOTAM. And [already they did] shutdown the local airports.

      They do it all the time at Edwards AFB here on the west coast. No one flies into the space and guess what... your tech challenges become zero. None of these aircraft are going to go flying off...like a drone for instance. Only today, the big challenges are RF issues, but luckily these aircraft have no tech that deends on digital RF connections.

      I'd still take a B52 and a couple of F22s and JSFs buzzing around with some afterburners running. You see that here. Impressive.

    10. Re:What tech challenges? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have no need of anti-collision systems. They did not have them in WWII, and did not run into each other. They flew in much worse weather then as well. Today, they flew over the Potomac river after taking off from the Manassas, VA airport. This is not a difficult thing to do. They flew in formation, which is tricky, but they had a few days of practice in the local area. Not a big technical challenge. Pretty awesome to see, though.

  7. B-29 by ArchieBunker · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Seeing and hearing the B-29 fly over is quite impressive. I try and imagine what it would be like in 1945 to see a sky full of them. They do a flyover here during the summer and you can pay for a ride although its not cheap.

    --
    Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    1. Re:B-29 by willoughby · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Back in '92, as part of the celebration of the 50th anniversary of the first B29 flight, the Boeing Employees Amateur Radio Society (BEARS) had a special event ham radio station on the air. They were set up near the airplane and when one engine was fired up as a demo, their station was unreadable for about 3 minutes. It was pretty neat to hear just over the radio. ...and, yes, I made a contact & got my special event QSL card from K7NWS with a nice photo of a B29 in flight..

    2. Re:B-29 by Pope+Hagbard · · Score: 1

      It's a lot cheaper to get a tour of Fifi's cockpit. Tennish years ago it cost me around $20 and I got to sit in the pilot's seat while one of the crew lectured about various bits of the plane and history. We weren't allowed through the tunnel to the gunnery compartment, which I'd really like to see sometime.

    3. Re:B-29 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      $20 bucks got me a tour of ur moms cockpit, and I even got to tunnel into her gunnery compartment.

    4. Re:B-29 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Last year about 20 or so old WW2 planes flew over my house near Manassas airport in VA in formation for some type of memorial or anniversary. It was eerie. That noise was probably one that tens of thousands of people in Europe could never ever forget.

    5. Re:B-29 by Ihlosi · · Score: 1
      I try and imagine what it would be like in 1945 to see a sky full of them.

      Depending on where you are, it might be the last thing you see.

  8. Anecdote by youngone · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My Mother's partner FLT/SGT Hudson of the Royal New Zealand Air Force flew in a couple of those bombers during the recent unpleasantness with Germany. His favourite bomber, as a gunner, was the Wellington though, he said that it was possible to shoot huge holes in those and they just kept flying home. In a memoir he dictated before his death, he told of a raid where his aircraft was jumped by two BF-110's over Holland. He managed to shoot one down, but the other one shot out one of the Wellington's engines and blew huge holes in the wings and fuselage. Although the navigator was killed, they made it home for a crash landing. I think the pilot on that flight was 21 years old.

    1. Re:Anecdote by Pope+Hagbard · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I read of an early Wellington getting jumped by German fighters and one of its engines set afire. A crewman climbed out onto the wing (wind, Germans, and fire all) with an "engine cover" (IIRC), sticking his hands and feet through the cloth skin and onto the geodesic frame*, and used it to smother the flames. His plane got home that day.

      Wellingtons are one of my favorite planes too.

      *said frame being why it was possible for shot-up examples to return so often. It was very similar to a rigid airship's frame.

    2. Re:Anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does he look anything like this?

    3. Re:Anecdote by Intrepid+imaginaut · · Score: 2

      I just randomly googled that and you ain't kidding: http://albumwar2.com/wp-conten...

    4. Re:Anecdote by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Mother's partner FLT/SGT Hudson of the Royal New Zealand Air Force flew in a couple of those bombers during the recent unpleasantness with Germany.

      I could understand referring to it that way up to the 1970s, maybe even the 1980s. But, it's 70 years ago now.

  9. "The Arsenal of Democracy" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha, ha. Sounds like something that would be used in the "War for Peace". I want some freeeeeeeeeedom fries!

  10. Re:How much does this cost taxpayers? by Deadstick · · Score: 3, Informative

    Basically, a few thousand gallons of gasoline. The airplanes are privately owned.

  11. Some of those planes have functional bomb releases by TheHawke · · Score: 2

    Just sayin'...

    --
    First rule of holes; When in one, stop digging.
  12. Too bad the protesting postman... by tlambert · · Score: 1

    Too bad the protesting postman didn't just wait for the event, and fly a vintage autogyro.

    Just sayin'...

  13. Re:How much does this cost taxpayers? by sls1j · · Score: 3, Funny

    Well, if those bombers could take just one more load of bombs...

  14. "The Arsenal of Democracy"!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...I, uh, really don't know what to say. Except that is incredibly depressing.
    Relevant image

    1. Re:"The Arsenal of Democracy"!? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...I, uh, really don't know what to say. Except that is incredibly depressing.

      You don't think democracy needs protection? Pacifism doesn't work, unless you have a non-pacifist friend who is willing friend to protect you. Pacifists ultimately get subjugated by non-pacifists when left to themselves.

  15. Nothing. by Etherwalk · · Score: 2

    Basically, a few thousand gallons of gasoline. The airplanes are privately owned.

    So close to zero that it doesn't matter. The budget is driven by social security, medicare, and defense. Talk about anything else in the federal budget is almost meaningless until we fix those--it just distracts from the core problem.

    1. Re:Nothing. by gumbi+west · · Score: 1

      the first two are entirely encapsulated systems and really can't be the problem.

      Medicare is paid for by a 2.9 percent tax on income. Fixing it's budget problem of changes in demographics can't be that hard.

      Similarly, social security is basically a pay as you go system that is dealing with a demographic shift. You just change to change the tax or benefit replacement rate (fraction of tax paid out per year) and it's fixed.

      Defense on the other hand is a problem. I think that if the US spent less on defense our allies would be forced to spend more and we'd also become more competitive for exports. When the U.S. attacked Libya, we had wars going in two theaters and were still able to provide overwhelming force. Meanwhile, several European countries contributions were assets like 2 F-15s 3 weeks into the conflict. This is because that's what their defense plan calls for, for them to have 2 F-15s ready for combat within a month.

      Basically, the U.S. is sponsoring all the European socialism via our defense spending because these countries simply don't have to spend money on defense.

    2. Re:Nothing. by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      I'm tangentially working for a defense contractor. The whole business is awash in money.

    3. Re: Nothing. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Wrong again, dragon breath. Get off your conservative bs platform and get a life. Social security, is not a tax on the wealthy. Its a blanket for the poor. Its only paid for by the poor and yet given to the wealthy. And I did not see, any, wealthy person redistribute the money they received, to some other organization, or charity. In other words the kept it, even though they were giving not as much of their income to get it. You see, someone making a thousand a month, pays a full 7% of their income to get social security, someone who makes over 130k a year only pays to 125k. After that they are not taxed, but they get the full benefit at withdrawal. Now, part dwu, you see, you only get it if you survive. Fully half or more payers will never receive the benefit, they will die prior to age 60, benefits start at age 62. Reduced benefits. Now what would be the fastest way to JumpStart the american economy, get the young to working, and improve the american bottom line? Raise the retirement age? Really? You are summer then the rock I'm sitting on.

  16. Arseholes of Democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    So why did they choose that title?
    To justify the current bloodlust of the world's largest military? Paper over the rampant hypocrisy and ignorance of the masses?
    "No, really, we're Merricuns wif GUNZ and we're here to help. Now, get out of ma way before I shoot yaz all".
    Spreading US-style "democracy" at the point of a gun.
    Anyone else want to tell me why this feels dystopian?

    1. Re:Arseholes of Democracy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hope you get bombed.

  17. Arsenal of Democracy Ignorance by istartedi · · Score: 4, Informative

    I'm seeing a lot of ignorant comments about the phrase "arsenal of democracy". Please educate yourselves. This phrase comes out of the WW2 era in which these birds flew. Manufacturing weapons was a huge part of the US contribution because we could do it without having to worry about Axis bombers hitting our plants. The AoD helped kill the Axis. Please try to separate it from the modern issues. This is history we're talking about.

    --
    For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
  18. Should be in Moscow by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The flyover celebration of VE Day should be part of the Moscow celebration, for a single, giant VE Day celebration.

  19. The largest gatherings of such aircrafts was WW2 by iceco2 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Depending on how you define an event, the most WW2 planes flying at once could have been one of several raids.
    Good candidates include the bombing of Dreseden, Berlin, Hamburg or London.

  20. Reagan National Airport? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    No, sir, I'm afraid not. The name of the airport is "The Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport," named after the famous African American rights advocate Ronald Reagan Washington.

  21. Re:The largest gatherings of such aircrafts was WW by crtreece · · Score: 1
    >Good candidates include the bombing of Dreseden, Berlin, Hamburg or London.

    >Dreseden, Berlin, Hamburg or London.
    >London

    I guess not including the Germans might get them all riled up again.

    --
    file: .signature not found
  22. Video available? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Awesome! I hope video will be available.

  23. what about the co2? by paul+mafinga · · Score: 0

    All those emissions! It's not green!

    Run in circles and cry you nanny state greenbeans

  24. Thanks For All The Notifications by Toad-san · · Score: 1

    I heard damn-all about this event, and I'm a BIG warbirds fan! Ditto with my favorite online AGW Warbirds forum :-( Hell, I even missed the streaming live!

    Sigh ...

  25. HERE'S THE VIDEO by tlambert · · Score: 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  26. That's great, but... by tlambert · · Score: 1

    This is basically an air show, with aircraft from two fields merging into a single stream of 15 formations. Formations 1, 4, 7, 11, and 15 will each contain a heterogeneous set of aircraft, in some cases mixing planes from different eras. Many of the aircraft are flying on "experimental" certifications.

    This is not the same thing as flying a long distance from point A to point B and being able to follow a filed flight plan.

    VIDEO: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...