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A Tool For Analyzing H-1B Visa Applications Reveals Tech Salary Secrets

Posted by timothy on from the sifting-and-stacking dept.

Tekla Perry writes: The golden age of engineers is not over,' says a French software engineer who developed a tool for mining U.S. Department of Labor visa application data, but, he says, salaries appear to be leveling off. Indeed, salary inflation for software engineers and other technical professionals at Google and Facebook has slowed dramatically, according to his database, and Airbnb and Dropbox pay is down a little, though Netflix pay is through the roof. The data also shows that some large companies appear to be playing games with titles to deflate salaries, and Microsoft is finally offering technology professionals comparable salaries to Apple and Google. There's a lot more to be discovered in this interactive database, and researchers are getting ready to mine it.

20 of 124 comments (clear)

  1. Lots of highly paid folks by mystikkman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Looks like there are a lot of highly skilled and highly paid people in the companies I looked... the opposite of the Slashdot narrative of indentured servants working on minimum wage.

    1. Re:Lots of highly paid folks by MacTO · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Of course there's a lot of people who are highly paid. Chances are that those people are highly skilled, or at least have highly specialized skills as well.

      Put another way: if you get a degree in computer science, or you are self-taught using common resources, you probably have a skill set that reflects that reflects the bare minimum that a company will accept and you have a skill set that the market is flooded with. Either way, you are unlikely to receive a good salary and you are probably going to face a lot of competition to get a job.

      On the other hand, those who specialize may enter disciplines with less demand but they are also entering disciplines with far less competition for jobs. If that discipline offers a good return for the investment for a business, those people will frequently garner better salaries. Likewise, if you have that computer science degree but consistently put in the effort to perform beyond expectations chances are that you'll have more opportunities and reap better rewards.

      I'm not going to say that it'll work for everyone. Motivation in the workplace and soft skills count too. Too many people hold themselves back due to psychological rather than intellectual reasons. On the other hand, if you prepare yourself to be a low paid cog you will almost certainly end up being a low paid cog.

    2. Re:Lots of highly paid folks by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Informative

      no one ever said 'min wage' for h1b.

      but its minimum in RELATIVE terms because there's no reason to have to pay local salary rates if you don't have to.

      maybe its only 10k less or 5k less but if the workforce is over 50% indian (bay area: its more like 80% or more; wish I was kidding) and a huge percent of those are h1b's, then it adds up.

      there are pay windows or ranges and every h1b salary is on the low end of the range. because, "they can" and they do get away with it.

      the indentured servant is 100% true; once you are onboard, you are abused, overworked and treated like shit. they know that you are stuck there. they brought you in FOR that reason, mostly.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    3. Re:Lots of highly paid folks by kilfarsnar · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Looks like there are a lot of highly skilled and highly paid people in the companies I looked... the opposite of the Slashdot narrative of indentured servants working on minimum wage.

      And then there's this from TFA:

      In Négri’s opinion, that could be a trick to bring in a technically skilled worker at a lower cost: “If the title says software engineer, you pay a lot” to stay in compliance with the H-1B laws that require immigrants to be paid the prevailing wage, he says. “If the title says ‘consultant’, instead of $130,000 you might pay $60,000, the gap is that big.” He pointed to a “technology lead” for Infosys in Sunnyvale, Calif., listed in the database as having a salary of $87,000. “That’s not much for Silicon Valley,” Négri says.

      While it may not be minimum wage or indentured servitude, the point about wage suppression still has merit.

      --
      "What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
    4. Re:Lots of highly paid folks by guru42101 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The other thing a lot of people overlook is people here working on Visitor B-1 visas, different than an H1B. Basically they're not employed directly by a US company, they're paid by some firm in India or wherever. The visa lasts usually 6 months and they must leave the country and reapply. At my employer we have an army of them contracted from Bristlecone, Wipro, IBM, and probably some others. Most of them are paid significantly less than a US employee, even after their rental car and hotel are covered. One I work with regularly let it slip how much they make in Rupees and it ended up being around 11 USD/h after conversion. From when I relo'd here I know the company has a bank of rooms at the nearby hotel at a significantly discounted rate (probably 30-40/n) and they carpool everywhere. A similar low experience US employee would probably get 25-30/h in this area.

    5. Re:Lots of highly paid folks by dj245 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Looks like there are a lot of highly skilled and highly paid people in the companies I looked... the opposite of the Slashdot narrative of indentured servants working on minimum wage.

      And then there's this from TFA:

      In Négri’s opinion, that could be a trick to bring in a technically skilled worker at a lower cost: “If the title says software engineer, you pay a lot” to stay in compliance with the H-1B laws that require immigrants to be paid the prevailing wage, he says. “If the title says ‘consultant’, instead of $130,000 you might pay $60,000, the gap is that big.” He pointed to a “technology lead” for Infosys in Sunnyvale, Calif., listed in the database as having a salary of $87,000. “That’s not much for Silicon Valley,” Négri says.

      While it may not be minimum wage or indentured servitude, the point about wage suppression still has merit.

      Companies do play games with the titles. Another way that wages are suppressed is by bringing in a foreign worker at the prevailing local rate. Take a look at the numbers for Accenture. The vast majority of their H1-B hires are just barely more than the prevailing rate. In most cases, within $100.

      I have also heard that it is very common for a company to claim on H1-B applications a higher salary than was actually paid to the employee.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
  2. Cherry picking salary data by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    These are all companies based in cities with astronomically high costs of living.

  3. The title game by clifwlkr · · Score: 5, Insightful

    You can clearly see the way the companies are manipulating the system. Don't hire them as 'engineers', but as 'technology leads' then make up a low salary for them. No, the salary is not minimum wage as posted above, but it is half of what you would have to pay a standard software engineer, and you have their loyalty as it is a hassle to switch jobs. Yes, some companies appear to be above board, but is Google really only paying their software developers 123,000 in Silicon Valley? That seems low for that place. And yes, these salaries look big until you consider where they are. They are pulling salaries from the biggest companies in the most expensive places. Anyone looked into the data yet and see what the consulting sweat shops are paying/claiming? Again, tax the heck out of H1Bs and if there really aren't any engineers available in the US these companies will be happy to pay the penalty. Or better yet, untie H1Bs from a company, make it a 2 year visa, and let them go wherever they want. My guess is the companies will not be so hot on using H1B labor at that point.

    1. Re: The title game by GrantRobertson · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I like your last idea. It comes off as less punitive and more about "freedom."

    2. Re:The title game by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      If they offer a salary too low for you, then don't take the job.

      Funny how that (different AC) got modded down to -1 for not fitting the groupthink here. People seem think supply and demand should apply to other people, but not to them.

      Nobody owes you a job. If you don't like the salary being offered, then nobody is forcing you to take it. Move on. But software is a global industry. The work can generally be done anywhere,, by anyone. It isn't anyone else's responsibility to ensure that your business model is as profitable as you want it to be.

    3. Re:The title game by mystikkman · · Score: 2

      > but is Google really only paying their software developers 123,000 in Silicon Valley? That seems low for that place

      Those numbers don't include stock options, which are a big part of compensation. The SV companies that don't give stock options have high salaries posted. The amount of ignorance in these comments is amazing.

    4. Re:The title game by fluffernutter · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Nobody owes you a job.. but it is the large companies claiming they can't find anyone and thus hiring H1Bs. If their claim is truly justified, then technical people are in short supply and the salary would be increasing. The fact that salary is leveling off means that they must be able to find enough people and thus should not be hiring H1Bs. This is the way the market works, there is no other way. If the market is working fairly for everyone then one of the two alternatives must be the case.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    5. Re:The title game by MooseTick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "123k is a low salary"

      According to (http://www.whatsmypercent.com/), 123k puts you down in the 97% range. If it weren't for H1B peeps, maybe you'd be making 150k. While 27k is a lot, someone who makes more than 97% of the nation can't complain too much.

      --
      Ninjas don't carry tic tacs
    6. Re:The title game by l0n3s0m3phr34k · · Score: 2

      you have no comprehension of how "cost of living" varies from city to city? Just because it's 97% "nationwide"...it costs far more to live in California as it does in the midwest.

    7. Re:The title game by kylef · · Score: 2

      Funny how that (different AC) got modded down to -1 for not fitting the groupthink here. People seem think supply and demand should apply to other people, but not to them.

      Not so. Most of us are just asking for the same supply and demand rules to apply to software jobs as to any other job in the US, rather than being targeted disproportionately by H1B visa policy. If demand really does exceed supply as the software barons claim when lobbying politicians, then prices for labor should be increasing, which is how the labor supply works in every other sector of the economy. But if prices are stagnant or even declining, then claims of a shortage ring hollow.

      Nobody owes you a job. If you don't like the salary being offered, then nobody is forcing you to take it. Move on. But software is a global industry. The work can generally be done anywhere,, by anyone. It isn't anyone else's responsibility to ensure that your business model is as profitable as you want it to be.

      Of course no one owes anyone a job. But we're not talking about "global" software supply/demand and salaries here: we're talking very specifically about the situation inside the US, because we're evaluating a question of local public policy there only (i.e., the H1B visa quotas). Gaming the system via immigration policy to keep wages artificially low in a few specific categories should be revolting to any capitalist who claims to respect the market. If immigration limits are to be enforced, they should be enforced across the board, without special consideration to special interests.

  4. Not at Pied Piper by StikyPad · · Score: 2

    They pay the new guys double what the founders are getting.

    --
    https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
  5. Where the H-1B wage levels come from by NCoast · · Score: 5, Informative

    I know something about H-1B wages. Follow this federal prevailing wage link (http://www.flcdatacenter.com/OesWizardStart.aspx) and you'll see that they are geographically-specific, and every H-1B wage comes in 4 levels, from entry-level to highly skilled. H-1B employers have to pay at least as much as shown in this federal prevailing wage database and possibly more, if they ordinarily pay people with the same duties in the same location higher than the minimums shown at the above link. BTW, that website can be useful when negotiating your own salary.

  6. business models by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Like it or not, programming can be done anywhere. That puts you into competition with the whole world, whether you want to be or not. Very few software jobs can't be shipped to China or India if that makes more economic sense.

    You aren't special, and it isn't anyone else's job to ensure that your business model succeeds. That's usually the slashdot groupthink when it applies to OTHER industries like truckers being put out of jobs by automation. "If their business model isn't working, find a new one" - repeated endlessly on here. Well, guess what, you can't have it both ways. If your job can be done cheaper or automated away, it will be. If your business model isn't working, find a new one.

    1. Re:business models by Greystripe · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If that were true then companies would not use H1B's in the first place. Since they are using H1B's then it means that the companies care where the programmer is located.

  7. Overall the numbers look relatively competitive... by DomNF15 · · Score: 2

    The averages reported for Microsoft, Google, and Apple ($121k, $124k, and $123k, respectively) seem to be more or less in line with what folks at my Westchester County, NY based company are making (arguably as expensive a place to live as those famous West Coast places). I do agree with the assessment that the H1B folks are treated like indentured servants, the management knows they can't easily move to another company and dangles the Greencard like an almost unobtainable carrot, even when the Greencard is company sponsored. This also affects things like workload and yearly salary increases adversely, I've seen it happen firsthand.