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FCC Proposes To Extend So-Called "Obamaphone" Program To Broadband

jfruh writes: The FCC's Lifeline program subsidizes phone service for very poor Americans; it gained notoriety under the label "Obamaphone," even though the program started under Reagan and was extended to cell phones under Clinton. Now the FCC is proposing that the program, which is funded by a fee on telecom providers, be extended to broadband, on the logic that high-speed internet is as necessary today as telephone service was a generation ago.

41 of 413 comments (clear)

  1. other people's money by fche · · Score: 2, Insightful

    It hasn't run out quite yet.

    1. Re:other people's money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Like it or not, either way, you're going to spend the money.

      Here's the thing about those phones. They prevent trouble. They give people opportunity.

      You don't do that? The cheapest thing that can happen is somebody dies in a way that isn't even suspicious enough to keep a cop from drinking his coffee.

      Then you're out a burial plot at most.

      More expensive? Yeah, people end up being in prison where we pay even more to keep them there than if we just supplied them with weed and beer and cheap food.

      Or worse yet. Revolution and riot. You know why the Roman leaders needed the bread and circuses? Because otherwise the out of work population of Rome would be pissed. Why did they lose work? Because the land-owners wanted slave-worked plantations, not citizen-owned farms.

      You give a man something to do? Where they can be appreciated and respected? You'll get results. You piss people off and convince them they're hated, well, at a certain point, even the lowest worm will realize you're not better than they are.

      And you won't always be the cat with the sharpest claws.

    2. Re:other people's money by fche · · Score: 2, Insightful

      ... then that one in a thousand will help subsidize the 999 until the money runs out

    3. Re:other people's money by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Please send me more of your "society" dollars - I'll make sure they're well-spent.

      Between 2008 and 2014 the Fed used Quantitative Easing to create $4 trillion dollars out of thin air. If you want your share, go re-finance your house for 3.5%. You're welcome.

    4. Re:other people's money by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Like it or not, either way, you're going to spend the money.

      Here's the thing about those phones. They prevent trouble. They give people opportunity.

      You don't do that? The cheapest thing that can happen is somebody dies in a way that isn't even suspicious enough to keep a cop from drinking his coffee.

      Then you're out a burial plot at most.

      More expensive? Yeah, people end up being in prison where we pay even more to keep them there than if we just supplied them with weed and beer and cheap food.

      Or worse yet. Revolution and riot. You know why the Roman leaders needed the bread and circuses? Because otherwise the out of work population of Rome would be pissed. Why did they lose work? Because the land-owners wanted slave-worked plantations, not citizen-owned farms.

      You give a man something to do? Where they can be appreciated and respected? You'll get results. You piss people off and convince them they're hated, well, at a certain point, even the lowest worm will realize you're not better than they are.

      And you won't always be the cat with the sharpest claws.

      Yes yes! A thousand times YES! Workers of the world: UNITE! From each according to their means, to each according to the need. It will be perfect!

    5. Re:other people's money by CaptQuark · · Score: 5, Informative

      If you read the full article, this $9.25 subsidy only applies to people ALREADY receiving it for phone service. The only change described in the article would be to allow those people to apply the subsidy to cell phone or broadband service instead. I assume there would be a few people that currently qualify but don't receive the subsidy because they don't have a land line, but $9.25 would barely cover the cheapest broadband plan the companies would offer.

      ~~

    6. Re: other people's money by CaptQuark · · Score: 2

      If you RTFA, this $9.25 subsidy only applies to people ALREADY receiving it for phone service. The only change described in the article would be to allow those people to apply the subsidy to cell phone or broadband service instead.

      ~~

    7. Re: other people's money by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 3, Interesting

      assume a perfectly reasonable per month/subscriber cost of $25

      $9.25, as per the article

      a program that spends $[9,250]/month

      Diverts the already being spent monies from being spent on a landline to a broadband connection

      for two years ... an associate's degree

      Well, by classes I intended more professional or at your own speed... so I didn't think it would take two years, But associates degrees take 18 months if you go straight through.

      So, by your logic, that's 9.25 * 18 * 1000 = 166500. But, over a 20 year career ( short) if that person makes back 700/mo (not unreasonable, with $300 for foodstamps, $350 for section 8, $50 for medicaid) it pays for itself.

      Seems good to me. I mean, not perfect, but self-substaining.

      --
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    8. Re:other people's money by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      Poe's law in action.
      I honestly can't tell if you're paranoid or sarcastic...

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    9. Re:other people's money by silentcoder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      >What they need is to gain skils and obtain a steady job or make one.

      Have you TRIED to get a job without a phone number ? What century do you think this is ?

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    10. Re:other people's money by sharkbiter · · Score: 3, Interesting

      We keep on giving away money to people without the understanding that what we are giving has a price attached to it. Do we even worry about the effect that it's having on the very people that are receiving it?

      Should we, (being givers), not teach those that receive our generosity what it means to be a recipient? Why do we have 6 generations of welfare recipients with each generation that's added not caring in the least where the money is coming from?

      I walked from Potomac Avenue to the Navy Yard yesterday and came upon an entire community that relies upon government funded housing. They just hang out all day in a small park chatting with one another. They don't look like they're incapable of any sort of work.

      I've worked for my living from the age of twelve to the present (decades, I won't say how many). Should I go and join them for awhile and see what it's like to have all my troubles taken care of by the government?

      I'm just confused about all of this.

    11. Re:other people's money by Rich0 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I walked from Potomac Avenue to the Navy Yard yesterday and came upon an entire community that relies upon government funded housing. They just hang out all day in a small park chatting with one another. They don't look like they're incapable of any sort of work.

      Did you offer them a well-paying job? Chances are, neither has anybody else.

      The days when you could tell whether somebody was capable of getting a job ended with the development of automation.

      Think of the average kid you went to high school with (assuming you went to an average public school as I did). Do you REALLY think they're capable of holding down a job in the modern world?

    12. Re:other people's money by KermodeBear · · Score: 3, Interesting

      For now. In a few years I fully expect additional funds to be appropriated so that people can have both services subsidized.

      --
      Love sees no species.
    13. Re:other people's money by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 2

      How about summary trials and executions by unpaid citizen volunteers? It'll be a libertarian paradise.

      Aside from the inconvenient fact that most libertarians oppose the death penalty. Nice try though.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    14. Re: other people's money by silentcoder · · Score: 5, Informative

      You realise this won't cost you a cent right ? This is the exact same subsidy Reagan instituted with no increase. Just permission to allocate it to a different service.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
    15. Re:other people's money by Rob+Y. · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Medicare - before the new drug benefit that was explicitly barred from seeking good deals. Seems socialism's better than its reputation - except when crafted by Republicans who want it to look bad...

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    16. Re:other people's money by laird · · Score: 3, Insightful

      To support your point, note that the unemployment rate goes up and down quite dramatically over time based on the economy, i.e. job availability. That pretty much proves that when people are unemployed it's because they can't find work, not that they're not willing to work.

    17. Re:other people's money by jwhitener · · Score: 2

      Should I go and join them for awhile and see what it's like to have all my troubles taken care of by the government?

      Yes. Because you'll quickly realize how much it sucks and how much better working is than having a small allowance with strings attached.

      And "those people", you know, the ones that conservatives think make up the entire welfare consumer base, are a tiny percent. The vast majority of people who receive safety net assistance are in the system for a little while and then get out when they find a real job.

      Look up the numbers instead of making up stories about "an entire community".

    18. Re:other people's money by laird · · Score: 2

      I should probably ignore an AC post, but in case someone reads you...

      There's no data to support your theory. The data says that the number of people leaving the workforce has been going up for 10+ years because the workforce is aging, and the baby boomers are starting to retire. People being able to retire isn't unemployment (i.e. people who want jobs not finding them), it's exactly the opposite (people who don't want to work being able to stop working)!

      The big about 'free phones' is weird. That was a program started under Reagan, and it's paid for entirely by the telco's, not by the government. And if you quit work to collect unemployment, you'd better be aware that (1) unemployment pays a lot less than having a job, and (2) it only lasts a few months.

      Be aware that the majority of people collecting SNAP ("food stamps") are either working full time for crappy employers, or are people (students, elderly, injured vets) that can't work. And, as a society, I think we're ethically required to care for those people, at least enough so they don't starve homeless. A task we're doing a terrible job at already...

  2. Eliminate all tax withholding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If people making $30,000 a year knew they paid over $1000 a month in taxes, the US government wouldn't have the resources to be so overweening.

    Make people actually have to hand their money over to the government instead of never seeing it and could have an honest discussion over how much government the US REALLY wants.

    If you don't like that, you really have to ask yourself how much you actually support the rule of "we the people".

    1. Re:Eliminate all tax withholding by ganjadude · · Score: 2

      thats only income tax. he didnt say income tax he said taxes. Now add in all other deductions from gross pay, add in a sales tax of 8.25% (in NY where I live anyway) and you are paying a LOT more than 210 a month

      --
      have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
  3. DO it by Ryanrule · · Score: 4

    Tax me. I just got a bmw. I can afford it.

    1. Re:DO it by freeze128 · · Score: 3, Funny

      Wait until after your first oil change.

  4. Where can I get my government-issued iPhone?! by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

    My tea party brethren insists that the Obamaphone is a government-issued iPhone. Swear by the Lord (give me a witness!), it's an iPhone. Not a wussy 8GB iPhone, but honest-to-God 128GB iPhone. But whenever I ask to sign up to get my very own government-issued iPhone, everyone stops talking about how all those moochers have the Obamaphone.

  5. Re:How about import duties? by epyT-R · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The point of tax isn't to punish people for being rich. It's to fund needed state operations as defined by its charter. In the case of the US, the state has greatly exceeded that charter. The last thing we need is yet another tax that reenforces this behavior. It's time washington works within a budget like everyone else. Once those ivy league lawyer brats learn to do that, then we can talk about what is needed and what isn't.

  6. Re:Amazing by Nyder · · Score: 5, Informative

    I find it amazing that not only is cable TV a "right", deserved by all, now broadband is also a "right".

    / Yo dude, check out my guv'mint subsidised Facebook post! // Yo dude, you should look into some guv'mint subsidised belts /// Yo dude, check out the brusin' I layed on my baby mama for telling me I should buy a belt!!

    Overreact much?

    Cable TV isn't considered a right and the Government does not give it away to poor people. Poor, can't afford Cable TV? Life sucks, you get over the air.

    Nice try though.

    --
    Be seeing you...
  7. Re:More ambiguous fees by Ryanrule · · Score: 3, Insightful

    no, its because your telecom company is lying to you. those fees are part of the true cost, but they separate them out. they could charge you an electricity fee, and a building rental fee, and a lunch for executives fee if they wanted. but those wont score poli points. you plumber could charge you a "damn your shit stinks fee" if he wanted, and exclude it from his advertised fee. its a loophole. and your dumb ass fell for it. dont vote, you are not qualified.

  8. Have You Looked for a Job Recently? by mx+b · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I find it amazing that not only is cable TV a "right", deserved by all, now broadband is also a "right".

    In a way, it is. Your first comment is actually a little more correct than you realized.

    I hunted for a job last year for quite some time before I got my new gig. Let me share some thoughts on the current job climate:

    1. (1) Many companies specifically say they do not fool with paper applications anymore, you are directed to submit resumes to their online HR portal.
    2. (1.5) For that matter, I don't see "Help Wanted" signs very much either. Job openings are posted online, so to even see if a job is available, you often have to check online.
    3. (2) An email address is as required as a phone number (perhaps more so?) these days when applying for jobs. Correspondence such as setting up interviews was done almost entirely in email in my experience. They may have called?... or may have thought since I didn't respond to their email, I wasn't available, and moved on to the next candidate.
    4. (3) A LinkedIn or Facebook is used to "verify" you are a real person that doesn't seem too crazy or weird, and that your public profile matches your resume (catching obvious liars). It was heavily insinuated to me that applicants without an online presence were basically treated as homeless drug addicts (i.e., "what are you hiding if you're not online?")

    So, to get a job, it's quickly becoming a requirement to have internet access. If we ever expect to help people improve their lives, we have to be willing to give them a leg up to get started. Getting a decent job is a start to better things, so if jobs require internet access, I am all for making it a "right".

    Furthermore, I think there is an even greater reason why to do this. While it is possible to call one's congressmen, you'd have to know what to call about. I never receive snail mail copies from my legislators, but I receive email newsletters and follow them on Twitter. Without internet, you would probably have much less of a chance of being informed as well as being able to interact with your representatives. Arguably, since democracy is one of the most important aspects of our society, I would say that allowing access to representatives is a fundamental right, and if those representatives now do a lot of their business and work online, we must require online connections for all.

    1. Re:Have You Looked for a Job Recently? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      I'll not argue with those points, but we have libraries with Internet access for just such purposes.

      I'm not heartless, but government programs FORCIBLY take money from the people who are working to give it to those who are not. Some assistance is necessary, but it needs to be run on an absolutely lean budget because it's not SUPPOSED to be comfortable when you're out of work. It should be a situation that you want to get out of immediately.

      Public internet access can be provided at the library.

      Food stamps should be replaced by government funded soup kitchens (not literally soup, but mass cooked meals available to the poor for "free").

      Welfare? Replace it with work programs. Those who do not have any viable job skills are to attend vocational training programs (free and government ran) to attain the skills needed to enter the workforce. Those who already have enough skills until they can find another job are to perform other duties. Running the aforementioned vocational training centers, providing childcare for the attendees of them, or farming in order to support the above mentioned soup kitchens (or staffing them).

      Any children you already have will be supported and allowed to live with you while receiving assistance. Any NEW pregnancies while on assistance must be aborted (it'll be free) OR you forfeit all assistance and custody of ALL children until you're capable of financially supporting them yourself.

      A tad harsh - perhaps, but we've got to get people working again. Government assistance should be very rare, and very temporary.

      About the only thing I'd support near total subsidization of is daycare. A lot of otherwise capable people are not able to work because they can't afford daycare or would break-even if paying it. If picking up that tab gets more people into the workforce, then I'm all for it.

    2. Re:Have You Looked for a Job Recently? by Linsaran · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I'm not sure when the last time you went to a library was, but they're a relic of a bygone age, I've seen at least 3 of them shut down, and another 2 lose their accreditation because they couldn't afford to be open more than 3 days a week. Sure, you could let people go to the library, but then you have to fund the library. Whether that would be cheaper budget wise than paying for a 5gb per month broadband connection, I don't know, but the public library system as it is now is not sufficient to really support someone looking for work.

      I imagine the biggest reason that the government doesn't run soup kitchens / have a bunch of work programs is that the overhead to oversee / manage those sorts of programs just ultimately ends up costing more than just giving people food.

      --
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    3. Re:Have You Looked for a Job Recently? by dywolf · · Score: 2

      except the conservatives are trying to kill libraries too, because "taxes" and "socialism" and again, that same resistance to government doing ANYTHING for the public. the same resistance that hass them opposing the existence public schools.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  9. Ronnie Phone by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Informative

    Just for the record, the "Obamaphone" program has a name. It's called the "Lifeline Assistance Program" and was started in the 1980s by...Ronald Reagan. It has nothing to do with Obama.

    https://www.fcc.gov/guides/lif...

    http://www.snopes.com/politics...

    http://gawker.com/5947133/the-...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Ronnie Phone by Plumpaquatsch · · Score: 4, Funny

      Just for the record, the "Obamaphone" program has a name. It's called the "Lifeline Assistance Program" and was started in the 1980s by...Ronald Reagan. It has nothing to do with Obama.

      Stop reminding people what a big tax spender Little-Government-Ronnie was ...

      --
      Of course news about a fake are Fake News.
    2. Re:Ronnie Phone by Tablizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's odd how it seems to politically matter who does something more than what is being done. Examples:

      "GOOD" (or neutral) WHEN BUSH DID IT:

      Corporate welfare
      NSA
      TSA
      DHS
      deficits
      stimulus
      bombing
      medicare part D
      golfing
      hugging Saudi oilers
      saluting with things in hand
      feet on desk
      subsidized cell-phones

      "BAD" WHEN OBAMA DID IT:

      Corporate welfare
      NSA
      TSA
      DHS
      deficits
      stimulus
      bombing
      medicare part D
      golfing
      hugging Saudi oilers
      saluting with things in hand
      feet on desk
      subsidized cell-phones

  10. Re:How about import duties? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Informative

    It's time Washington works within a budget like everyone else.

    Yet we vote out every politician who offers to balance the budget by raising taxes, vote in every politician who promises to expand services without a word on balancing the budget, and borrow trillions of dollars to maintain the status quo. If you want to change Washington, look in the mirror.

  11. Re:How about import duties? by Bartles · · Score: 2, Insightful

    When you spend more than you make, do you force your employer to give you a raise to cover the difference? No, you spend less. Its called living within your means, and you have zero understanding of what that means. Just because the government can alter its means to support its lifestyle does not mean that its a good idea.

  12. Re:How about import duties? by epyT-R · · Score: 3, Insightful

    You cannot regularly exceed your budget and expect to remain operational. Governments are no exception. The problem here is that the politicians running things are borrowing on the backs of the taxpayer, not on their own.

  13. Re:Cost benefit analysis by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2

    ... no answers are a priori correct.

    I like your post, but aren't all answers correct only a posteriori?

    Not all answers. Some are pulled out of a posterior.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
  14. 911 by JeffOwl · · Score: 2

    You don't need broadband to call 911, or answer a job call-back, or answer a call from your kid's school.

  15. And what's the problem? by thesandtiger · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I say guarantee basic services (phone, basic cable, broadband), basic accommodations (place to live, food), and basic health (medical insurance) for those who need it. Provide life and job skills classes open to anyone who wants to attend. Make state university free of charge for those who qualify (via academic track record and testing), vocational training (plumbing, culinary, whatever) free for those who don't qualify for university.

    Spread the housing across a given community, rather than concentrating it in one place, to prevent things like a project mentality and generational poverty mindset.

    It would be vastly less expensive than the costs we pay for police, prison and emergency services, safer for everyone else, and overall reduce human suffering.

    Most people would be happy to work an actual job and pay taxes in order to have "better than the bare minimum" for all of the above and the ability to do things like have food that isn't just staples, go on vacation, have more living space, etc.

    For people who don't want more, or who can't work for more, at least this would keep them off of the streets to some extent, and keep them from getting so desperate they resort to crime just to survive.

    I have zero problem with my taxes going to pay for such things because, not being an idiot, I'm aware that the alternative (what we have right now) is VASTLY more expensive by pretty much every metric.

    --
    Since I can't tell them apart, I treat all ACs as the same person.
  16. Re:How about import duties? by dywolf · · Score: 3, Informative

    Please. the government isn't even close to living outside its means. Extreme deficits only came about because politicians started to insist on cutting taxes. This country had no trouble paying for everything the government did, even while providing almost precisely the same services and social programs we currently do. and the economy and the average citizen not only was doing fine, but was more prosperous than he is today, even with the higher tax burden.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.