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Report: Internet Users Feel Powerless To Protect Their Privacy From Corporations

Mark Wilson writes: A paper produced by a team at the University of Pennsylvania confirms something many people have probably thought true for some time: the notion that internet users are unhappy with the way their privacy is undermined by advertisers and online companies, yet feel there is nothing they can do about it. While marketing companies like to present an image of customers who are happy to hand over personal information in return for certain benefits, the truth is rather different. Rather than dedicating time and energy to trying to stop personal data from being exploited, people are instead taking it on the chin and accepting it as part and parcel of modern, online life. It's just the way things are.

36 of 236 comments (clear)

  1. I just never give them my info. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Herman Munster at 1313 Mockingbird Lane is probably less than pleased with me though.

  2. Do you mean "Internet Products", right ? by x0ra · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Everybody expect free services. Nobody want to pay for anything, and they all expect privacy. Maybe it's time to wake up. Facebook, Google, Amazon or Apple are not charities, they are for-profit companies. They must find way to monetize their users' data. At the same time, Facebook probably wouldn't have been if it had been paywall'ed.

    1. Re:Do you mean "Internet Products", right ? by Scutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

      There are plenty of paid products where you, the consumer and purchaser, are still treated like a commodity. Just because you handed over money for it doesn't mean you won't be sold to the highest bidder. It's easy to just say "wake up", but I suspect that you missed the point.

      --

      "Tell me doctor, with all of your defenses, are there any provisions for an attack by killer bees?"
    2. Re:Do you mean "Internet Products", right ? by Nyder · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Everybody expect free services. Nobody want to pay for anything, and they all expect privacy. Maybe it's time to wake up. Facebook, Google, Amazon or Apple are not charities, they are for-profit companies. They must find way to monetize their users' data. At the same time, Facebook probably wouldn't have been if it had been paywall'ed.

      And yet Facebook/Google make most their profits on users data. Apple sells hardware/software mainly and Amazon is just trying to be the goto place for everything.

      I think the problem is, we aren't getting a good enough return on the data we are giving them. I don't feel my data has done anything to improve my life or online services, but I sure as fuck know there are a lot of people living the cushy life by selling mine & others user data.

      While google does provide some services, not exactly sure anyone is getting there money's worth using them.

      --
      Be seeing you...
    3. Re:Do you mean "Internet Products", right ? by Etherwalk · · Score: 2

      Amazon lowers the market price on things without you noticing. They recently announced that they're getting a better deal on shipping wires and such, so they can lower the prices of wires at Amazon Prime, and that should result in Best Buy lowering their prices similarly because their $10 minimum wire cost is based on Amazon's price.

      You might not feel like you're beating the market, but you're beating the past prices on a lot of things there.

      Yes, because they're screwing over their "partners." They make agreements not to poach certain products and then go in and come in right under their partners' prices on every other product. They're chasing margins, which is good short-term for value but forces all competition out of business. Ebay is the only competitor to amazon out there and they're not even trying to put themselves in the same class.

    4. Re:Do you mean "Internet Products", right ? by rtb61 · · Score: 2

      The only answer is to actively poison you data with things like 'Track Me Not' https://cs.nyu.edu/trackmenot/. Plus false information in social media (obviously good not bad false information), run public and private social media and public real name, private only a nick name close friends and some family members know. It is way easier to poison undesirable information about you than to get rid of it. So don't forget a specific junk mail web site as a trial period for new registers and have fun with fictitious family members and addresses and contact details.

      Reality is, want better privacy than manage your own social media, use ISP email, start looking into encryption (something singles can be slack on but families should most definitely not be) and when it comes to minors keep them will clear of corporate invasive perversion, there are sick people in there and they should not be trusted with you children's comings and goings nor what means are most effective at manipulating them.

      The high degree of privacy invasion is not just about targeting ads at you the reflect past interests but also monitoring which adds you can be most influenced by, so they can more readily suck you into buying highly profitable crap products.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re:Do you mean "Internet Products", right ? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      I think we need clearer language for talking about this. Does Google actually sell your user data? Well, kinda, depending on your definition...

      They sell advertising based on your web searches and the content of your email. They don't sell your actual data, they sell access to keywords that they extract from it but don't give to the advertisers. So I'd say that isn't selling your personal data, in the same way that if I visit any random web site they can look at the search terms I used (from the referrer header) and display advertising based on that. In fact that example is worse, since they can associate your data with your IP address and anything you do on the site.

      On the other hand Google does seem to lay claim to your personal documents and photos:

      When you upload, submit, store, send or receive content to or through our Services, you give Google (and those we work with) a worldwide license to use, host, store, reproduce, modify, create derivative works (such as those resulting from translations, adaptations or other changes we make so that your content works better with our Services), communicate, publish, publicly perform, publicly display and distribute such content. The rights you grant in this license are for the limited purpose of operating, promoting, and improving our Services, and to develop new ones.

      That last sentence seems to suggest that they won't sell your data, but does allow them to commercially exploit it in other ways. But you said "make most of their profits on user data", so I'm not sure that is correct.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    6. Re:Do you mean "Internet Products", right ? by grumling · · Score: 2

      You do realize the FBI can lock you up in jail, or even kill you if you "resist" arrest, right?

      Your software analyzer can't do that. I'd say that's a fairly huge difference.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
  3. DON'T PUT PICTURES OF YOUR COCK ONLINE! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If you want to preserve your privacy, then DON'T PUT PICTURES OF YOUR COCK ONLINE!

    1. Re:DON'T PUT PICTURES OF YOUR COCK ONLINE! by Z00L00K · · Score: 5, Informative

      That's probably the least of your or my problem. It just shows that you are a narcissist, but if you want to make a fool out of yourself you are welcome.

      A much larger problem is the ability for corporations without my consent track my patterns on the internet and can therefore be able to connect me to political opinions, sexual preferences and which bank(s) I use and possibly also my bank account number and credit card numbers.

      Disabling of third-party cookies do help to some extent, enforcing session-based cookies as well, but not completely. AdBlock can also help a bit. At least it blurs the image of me on the net a bit for the information gatherers.

      All those sites like "doubleclick", "tradedoubler" and similar - they don't provide me as a user with any benefits at all. And there are a massive amount of such sites and very few are in the default blocklist of AdBlock.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  4. Re:I think so by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 5, Funny

    Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but I use Firefox with the following add-ons: AdBlock (no whitelist), Better Privacy, Google Analytics Opt Out, HTTPS-Everywhere, Noscript, Privacy Badger and Self-Destructing Cookies.

    How are we supposed to know what add-ons you use?

    --

    Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!

    Vote for Bernie in 2016!

  5. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Why would they feel powerless... When they are already essentially willingly giving out their personal information on Facebook, Twitter, Instagram and other social media services...

    1. Re:Really? by Opportunist · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Willingly? Hardly. But it gets increasingly hard to avoid these things.

      By now you have companies that check your FB account. And if you don't have one and they can't find anything about you, they won't even consider you. Because, hey, if you don't have FB, you probably have to hide something, and we don't want you!

      It's also getting increasingly hard to sign up for anything without FB because companies offload the work of holding an account for you to FB or other such "services".

      And it's getting worse.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Willingly? Hardly. But it gets increasingly hard to avoid these things.

      By now you have companies that check your FB account. And if you don't have one and they can't find anything about you, they won't even consider you. Because, hey, if you don't have FB, you probably have to hide something, and we don't want you!

      So glad I don't live in your country. I don't have FB - because I cannot be bothered. I have other uses for my time! Still, a company googling my name will find lots of information, as I don't live anonymously on the Internet. I usually use my full name, no nicknames/handles. And if they don't find what they want - they can ask during the interview.

      I honestly cannot understand why a facebook account could be important during hiring. (Other than NOT having something really dubious there.) If "no facebook" means you're hiding something, how about a largely unused facebook account with a 5 year old picture and no comments after the first week - because the owner didn't bother using the account? Surely, there are quite a few accounts like that. People too busy living their life, and no interest in commenting on each others dinners on facebook.

  6. in other news... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Internet users by the hundreds of millions give all their personal communications to online ad companies, including Google and Facebook. They have cheerfully gone from running their own mail programs to using Gmail or Ymail for everything. They gladly blab the private details of their lives, with photos, to Facebook and Twitter. They kept visiting signs once banner ads started... and then ran javascript from ad companies. They fall all over themselves every time there's a new service that vacuums up all their data, when there's no reason for that data to leave their own computer.

    Sorry, internet users, but fuck you. The internet didn't used to be like this. You are the ones who supported turning the fucking thing from a true peer to peer network into a centralized, data-mined clusterfuck of overcommercialization and profiling. I don't want to hear how you don't like it. You made all the choices that led here.

    OK, to be fair: not every last one of you. But enough that those who didn't were a rounding error and could be ignored.

    1. Re:in other news... by grumling · · Score: 2

      Exactly, however it seems the acceptable business model is to sell eyeballs, not product. The first company that can provide me the same product as Gmail (ubiquitous email across multiple devices, all updated in real time), without the tracking and forced advertising gets my money. But anyone coming to a VC meeting with a pay-for-play product is going to be laughed out of the room.

      --
      "Well, good luck finding a judge that doesn't run a bestiality site."
  7. Free and IoT by geekmux · · Score: 2

    So the Facebook generation that demands every online service be priced at how-fucking-dare-you-charge-me-for-this is now claiming there's nothing that can be done about the privacy they blindly signed away 473 EULAs ago.

    Oh, that's rich.

    Don't worry though. If you thought this was bad, I'm certain IoT will make these privacy concerns look like a 12-year old boy with a telescope.

  8. Connecting the dots... by Alwin+Henseler · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It's one thing that your supermarket knows what food stuffs you bought recently. And a local sports store knows what socks & running shoes you bought recently. And a local electronics store knows what multimeter you bought the other day. But all these stores normally don't have that data from each other. They can't connect the dots, unless they are all part of the same company AND you used your frequent shopper card.

    So each store only gets a limited 'view' of your habits. Only the place(s) where you buy food, might suspect your eating habits. Only that sports store might suspect your sports habits. Etc, etc. Okay, your bank may get a list of transactions at several places, but not get all details about what you bought or did at each place. This is how it is expected in the 'offline world'.

    Online tracking might feed the data into a bigger mother company, advertisers that aggregate data, companies that 'voluntary share' some operational data, etc. Sure, there might be laws against some of that sharing. Sure, privacy policies may lead you to believe such things are out of the question. But can you rely on that? Are you sure?

    If not, this allow painting a much more detailed picture about one's life. Would you want such a detailed picture to be painted? Would you even want the records to be kept that allows this to happen? For me personally it's "NO" for the most part, perhaps on the fence for a few aspects, and the word "creepy" comes to mind. Not exactly matching with what's already technically possible, and what some companies are known to be doing these days (yep FB comes to mind. But they're far from alone).

    1. Re:Connecting the dots... by The+New+Guy+2.0 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      My local grocery store once explained to me why they didn't use a discount card, they already recognized me as I walked through the door, and knew the receipt was mine because I was the only one going though three packages of Vanilla Oreos per week. See, when big stores exist in lightly populated areas, the manager knows who the good customers are. My father and I had a good idea what prices were going to lower two weeks ahead because we saw the sale prices at the printing and database companies we worked for, and were sure our store had the deepest discounts in the chain.

      BTW, former next door neighbors... the two of you were on the cover of a magazine there the last time I visited that store... with a story that can't possibly be true!

  9. Re:Wait, what? by msauve · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "How?"

    Realize that the Internet is not the web. Install an ad/tracking blocker. Avoid, or delete your accounts on Facebook/Google/Apple/"social media". Pay for a domain(s), and use different email addresses for different accounts. Use a VPN. Regularly clear cookies in your browser. Vote for politicians who "get it," and truly understand the Internet, surveillance and privacy.

    Donate to the the EFF.

    There's more, which is left as an exercise for the reader.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  10. Re:Wait, what? by Dracos · · Score: 2

    But those only work in FireFox. If you really want to increase your privacy, add those hostnames to your hosts file. Mine contains ~131k tracker/adserver hosts mapped to 0.0.0.0 (there's even about a dozen for facebook). This doesn't just drop the served mal-content, it prevents requests to those hosts at the system level for all browsers or other software.

    As a consequence I rarely see any ads on the internet and my browser ad-blocking/privacy plugins have a very light workload.

  11. Re:Wait, what? by tlambert · · Score: 4, Funny

    Is the article implying that there IS a way to protect our privacy? How?

    (1) Hack the company's servers
    (2) Delete the data they have collected
    (3) Hope the do not detect the intrusion before their rolling backups overwrite their pervious backups which include your data
    (4) ???
    (5) Profit!

    Not that this is really recommended; they are bigger than you, legally speaking.

  12. ...Because it's NOT YOUR JOB! by tlambert · · Score: 5, Funny

    If you want to preserve your privacy, then DON'T PUT PICTURES OF YOUR COCK ONLINE!

    As we discovered in the John Oliver interview with Edward Snowden, it's the NSA's job to put pictures of your cock online, not yours!

  13. Re:They aren't even trying by bmo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But you don't have to use Facebook... ...to be tracked.

    You know all those "share via social media" buttons you see everywhere? Do you think they just exist to make it easy for users to repost content? No, they're for tracking anyone and everyone who goes to those sites (i.e., all) who don't have the trackers filtered through the likes of PrivacyBadger and ad-blockers.

    And the ratio of users that use those is minuscule enough that the users of the blockers themselves (like me) can be tracked via browser fingerprinting ridiculously easily anyway.

    The general population is powerless against the corporations unless they simply give up entirely and go dark. What a nifty fucking choice, eh?

    Get down off your high-horse, Lord Farquaad.

    --
    BMO

  14. Re:They aren't even trying by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm gonna summon APK, but blocking Facebook's tracking (and Google's, which is even more pervasive) is not difficult, at least for now. If hosts files and privacy-enhanced DNS servers are too much to ask, there are browser plugins. You mentioned some. My point is that the people who feel so powerless now are exactly the ones who got us into this mess, because they were and are so complacent about every invasion into their privacy if they can only avoid learning anything about anything. If people treated shoes like they treat computers, most people would have to buy shoes with Velcro fasteners because they wouldn't even consider learning how to tie a shoe.

  15. Re: Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Someone with a solution for your problem will be here shortly. Please hold.

  16. Tricky dilemma: but there are things you can do. by evilrip · · Score: 2

    It seems to me that the problem is that the user does not want put in the effort to learn about the tools and services they are using. It's conceived as overly complex, probably because of a combination of factors like zealots, technical jargon, corporate bullshit, etc. Even when it is not it's conceived as intrusive. The fact of the matter is that humans are stubborn creatures, and many humans think that when they graduate they don't have to learn anything new, ever. Most people don't have advanced degrees in economics and related fields to advertising, so they simply cannot comprehend how data mined they are being and why it is bad, often because off short-sightedness, "if you have nothing to hide .." comes to mind. Narcissism takes precedence to security with a lot of people, evidently, just look at facebook membership rates and the amount of facade-building (fake/phony/w/e) profiles with all kinds of information others with different frames of mind can use and abuse. The only reasonably safe software is software you can and _do_ audit, where you can access source code to see what programmers have done. No closed source ecosystem can ever provide this. Stop putting everything in services, cloud, whatever and learn about the tools you are using, computers are good at numbers, so you can assume they can be useful to encrypt your stuff to keep it safe, too. RTFM. You can do something. You can do many things. Turn on, tune in, drop out: Would you leave your laptop with a total stranger? No? Why would you leave your data with total strangers then? $0.02

    --
    "To err is human, to forgive, beyond the scope of the Operating System"
  17. Memo: People hate paying bills. by TapeCutter · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yes willingly, nobody has a fucking gun to your head to use this stuff, lack of willpower in a toy store is not "oppression".There's no trickery in any of this, you voluntarily (and often eagerly) sign up for a service and pay for what you use in either dollars, eyeballs, rabbit skins, whatever. Bitching about the privacy costs of of a FB account is like bitching about the electricity bill while sitting in an air-conditioned room, it will always be modded up because people hate paying bills.

    Of course government spying is a whole different ball of wax, nobody signed up for that!

    --
    And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
  18. Re: Wait, what? by Dracos · · Score: 2

    The list I use is the result of merging three separate adserver blacklists about a decade ago. It honestly doesn't require all that much maintenance... if I see an ad, I find the hostname it came from and add it to the hosts file. I think I've made 3 such edits in the past year or so.

  19. Acxiom is a bigger threat than FB or Google by jetkust · · Score: 2

    Why is Acxiom never mention in privacy? They collect data on people independent of social media and independent of any consent or even knowledge they are being tracked. They have information on you even if you've never joined any social media site. They track your credit card purchases, everything you buy, and who knows what else, and they are selling the data to who knows who. They sound way more dangerous than FB and google combined.

  20. Re:Wait, what? by CaptainDork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Your use of the word "sheep" is the problem.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  21. Yep. I'd pay money. by archer,+the · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'd pay money for a Facebook or GMail that didn't sell/give my info to others. I can probably solve the second by running my own mail server, but I don't have the knowledge yet.

    But, of course, if someone were to try to make Cashbook, they'd end up having the community split between themselves and Facebook. And who knows, Facebook might sue over a patent.

  22. Re:Wait, what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    These methods are not effective, and ultimately they are doomed. The reasons are obvious:

    1) Their incentive to track us is stronger than our incentive to resist.
    2) Not enough people will do these things, so tracking will continue to be profitable, hence will continue to be done.
    3) You have no moral nor legal right to privacy when engaging in business transactions.
    4) Their lobbyists are better funded than yours.

    You can create some friction by resisting, but mostly the only one feeling the heat will be you. Tracking is part of how the world works now. It is one of the many aspects of reality that we just have to accept. You can no more stop tracking than you can stop scientific progress or force a Republican to be reasonable.

  23. Re:Wait, what? by cyberchondriac · · Score: 2

    The only problem I've run across in using your own domain for email is that some places won't accept an email address using an "unknown" domain when creating an account. Case in point, Guitar World magazine, apparently they'll only accept accounts with an email from an ISP, or from Yahoo, Hotmail, or Gmail. It took me a few attempts to figure that out, because they won't even tell you why they won't send a registration activation email to that address.

    --

    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  24. Re:Wait, what? by msauve · · Score: 2

    So, if you own company "joesguitarstore.com" and want to use your work email, you're screwed? Sounds like a company to not do business with, because they're obviously customer hostile.

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  25. Re:Why use just 1 source for hosts data? by mccrew · · Score: 2

    This post sounds plausible. However the combination of boldface, ALL CAPS, unnecessary exclamation points (!), and absolutisms ("...it's an undeniable fact") has my B.S. meter pegged.

    --
    Hey, Windows users, there is no such thing as "forward" slash, there is only slash and backslash.