FCC Nixes PayPal's Forced Robocalls Plan

jfruh writes: As part of a new user agreement created in preparation for its spinoff from eBay as an independent company, PayPal told users that the only way to avoid advertising robocalls from PayPal and its 'partners' was to stop using the service. This caused something of a firestorm, and now the FCC is saying the policy may violate Federal law, which requires an explicit opt-in to receive such messages.

Comments

Oh.

[HideyoshiJP]

I hadn't bothered reading the new terms of service. Had I read about this before this FCC news, I would have cancelled. They've always been a little shady anyway, always wanting to ride that line between a service and a bank, while not wanting to fall into bank regulations.

Re:Oh.

[__aaclcg7560]

They've always been a little shady anyway, always wanting to ride that line between a service and a bank, while not wanting to fall into bank regulations.

Although eBay/PayPal appeared to be one company, they were separate business entities inside the company. I worked help desk for them prior to the Great Recession. Any hardware with an asset tag and licensed software got separated for either eBay or PayPal, as PayPal fell under the banking regulations and played by a different set of rules than eBay. If you were employed on the PayPal side, your credit record had to be in excellent shape or have your employment terminated. Just like working at a bank.

Thank you FCC

[ITRambo]

Lately the FCC seems to be the only competent part of the federal government.

Re:Thank you FCC

[antiperimetaparalogo]

Lately the FCC seems to be the only competent part of the federal government.

Or the "World's government" - i am a Greek and i hope that the (USA's) Federal Communications Commission (F.C.C.) will (at least) try to save me from "PayPal's Forced Robocalls Plan...

I did not had any complain for PayPal until this advertising robocalls "plan" - if i receive any on my phone (voice or text message, something not rare in Greece, where we don't have USA's Federal law which requires an explicit opt-in to receive such messages) i will cancel my account, something i really would not like doing.

Re:Thank you FCC

[antiperimetaparalogo]

That is a solution but i prefer to be honest when dealing with such issues because it makes life simple: you need my phone number for something important (e.g., call me about a fraud), i will give it to you (it is already required by my bank that the PayPal account is connected to), but if you use it for advertising robocall i will cancel my account - keep in mind that they operate as a "semi" bank (so, giving them inaccurate personal info, or not responding to communication with them, gives them an legal advantage if a serious dispute ever exists - at least in my country, Greece)

Re:Thank you FCC

[JazzLad]

A GV phone number not forwarded to your number can only generate emails/text messages - you see one you want to deal with, you listen to the recorded message.

I completely get not dealing with a company with policies you don't approve of, but unless it is a moral objection, it is a trivial one to bypass with technology.

Re:Thank you FCC

[ShanghaiBill]

Lately the FCC seems to be the only competent part of the federal government.

"Rachel from Cardholder Services" would disagree with that assessment. How come the NSA can track every phone call, yet the FCC is too incompetent to find even the most egregious robo-callers?

Re:Thank you FCC

[antiperimetaparalogo]

Do you want the US to be the World Police or do you not?

I am a Greek NATIONALIST: i want the US to be the World Police - someone must do it, and History proved that they was (and still are) the bravest for the job... if not them, who?

Lawyerly bullshit ..

[gstoddart]

Yes, but PayPal is making the bullshit argument that continuing to use the service is opt-in.

Because PayPal is, and has always been, ran by assholes who don't give a shit about their users.

And when it can come down to "let us spam you or lose access to our service", they're just doing more of the same.

For some reason we've accepted that corporations can change the terms any time they want to, and claim to have implied consent because you didn't stop using it.

Which when you're talking about entity which might have your money or impact your livelihood, is a pretty douchebag move.

Which is exactly why I'll never deal with PayPal.

Re:Lawyerly bullshit ..

[Col. Klink (retired)]

RTFA: "FCC requirements ban requiring a customer to consent to receive autodialed or prerecorded telemarketing or advertising calls as a condition of a purchase..."

Re:Lawyerly bullshit ..

[XxtraLarGe]

Yes, but PayPal is making the bullshit argument that continuing to use the service is opt-in.

It isn't?

For some reason we've accepted that corporations can change the terms any time they want to, and claim to have implied consent because you didn't stop using it.

I quit using AOL when I no longer liked their terms of service. When Microsoft announced that the XBone was going to require always on internet and a janky game sharing system, people threatened to not buy it. Similar situations have happened to Apple, Sony, Facebook, etc. Corporations can't just do whatever they want. If they alienate too many people, they lose $$$.

Which is exactly why I'll never deal with PayPal.

Free market in action.

Re:Lawyerly bullshit ..

[Moof123]

Somehow EULA's need to get reigned in.

Perhaps we need to fight fire with fire. Maybe start slipping a CEO's first born clauses into open source software, or other ridiculous things so that a few major corporations can find themselves signed up to make major donations to charity after their employees clicked through the latest update.

We are supposedly a country of rights and laws, but we have run out of times and places where those rights have not be superseded by some arbitration clause, or some automatic opt-in BS.

Re:Lawyerly bullshit ..

[gstoddart]

We are supposedly a country of rights and laws

Well, that used to be true.

Now you're a country of corporations, profits, and lawyers.

Since you can't afford to bribe the politicians as much as the corporations do, what you want doesn't matter.

Welcome to the dystopian future, now fully equipped with an oligarchy to ensure you get fucked in the process.

Re:Lawyerly bullshit ..

[liquid_schwartz]

This is an interesting opinion. You seem to think that of all the ills that the US has this is the largest one. I wouldn't have it in the top 10. I can't conceive how Christianity could beat out inequality, a bought and paid for government, corruption, police impunity, a declining middle class, declining social mobility, environmental issues, government gridlock, and many other ills. I'm just curious how Christianity beats out these other problems. Not trolling - legitimately curious about the argument for how this would be even in the top 3.

Amerika

[Anonymous Coward]

And this is why you have regulators, so they stop dominant businesses from fucking you over. Now say thank you for the FCC.

I would drop them like a fucking rock

[Tyr07]

Right now I use them for my payment gateway and online transactions.

If paypal demanded I receive robo calls on my fucking phone line as part of their fucking service, as someone who has been completely happy with paypal up to that point, I'd drop them like the biggest fucking rock into the biggest fucking ocean with a large karploosh like someone taking a giant shit and flushing it down the fucking toliet.

It's bad enough that ads all over visually and sometimes audio ads on webpages. You think my person communication device for talking to people I know is another platform for fucking advertisements? Fuck you you fucking bastards, I'd close my fucking account so fucking fast.

It would be the god damn end of paypal. Everyone would switch back to using their CC online or another provider would step in and paypal would hopefully be permanently fucked hard.

If anything they'd piss me off so fucking much that I would personally find each paypals employee phone numbers for their cell phones and robo call the fuck out of it, Always going "Do you like this? How do you fucking like it? I say you agreed to it by annyoing the piss out of me. Do you like this? How do..."

Re:I would drop them like a fucking rock

[Jiro]

That is not true. Paypal's language uses collection calls as an example, but is written in such a way that they can robocall you for any reason or no reason.

Don't use PayPal and never will

[AntronArgaiv]

Reason #1: they're unregulated
Reason #2: They have a demonstrated history of exploiting reason #1 (see www.paypalsucks.com for more information)

It just doesn't make sense to allow an organization like this to have any amount of access and/or control over your money.

Please, someone imlement this:

[Sqr(twg)]

From TFA: "[Pay Pal's] general counsel, Louise Pentland, wrote in a blog post last week that its customers can choose not to receive autodialed or prerecorded message calls by contacting customer support."

So, could someone, please, build a system where anyone can fill out a web-from and it robo-calls PayPal support using text-to-speech. The call would go something like this.

This is to inform you that your customer. John. Smith. Is requesting not to receive automated phone calls.
The user name of. John. Smith. is. J. S. M. I. T. H. 1. 2. 3. He, or she, is requesting not to receive automated phone calls.
The reason that. John. Smith. has given is: Go. Fuck. Yourself.

Message repeats. This is to inform you that your customer. John. Smith. Is requesting not to receive automated phone calls.
The user name of. John. Smith. is. J. S. M. I. T. H. 1. 2. 3. He, or she, is requesting not to receive automated phone calls.
The reason that. John. Smith. has given is: Go. Fuck. Yourself.

Message repeats...

If the system is not able to reach customer support, then it could switch to Pentland's home number instead.

Re:Please, someone imlement this:

[Atrox666]

Get in contact with PayPal customer support..bahahahahahah!

You could also get a hold of big foot and have him just beat them to death with a unicorn. My way is more plausible.

Re:Is this for real?

[__aajfby9338]

The robo-calls were not for advertisements, they were for collections.

IE - you would get a robo-call saying your bank account was overdrawn and you owe Paypal $5000.

The only difference between what Paypal wants to do and what all other collection agencies do is if a human is on the other end of the phone.

That's what PayPal claimed when the backlash against the new ToS began. But the ToS specifically included polls and telemarketing as their allowed use of robocalls. I cancelled both my PayPal and eBay (which has nearly identical terms of service) over this. I think they could probably eliminate most of the user backlash by removing the advertising clauses from their terms of service, notwithstanding any federal regulations that might still restrict their use of robocalls.

Re:PayPal controls the present AND the future

[ledow]

They can't legally do so.

What you agree to in a contract has to be reasonable, and a court of law decides that, not Paypal or whatever you agreed to.

Automatic inclusion of any and all future clauses is unreasonable.

In the EU, and it appears the US, robocalls are illegal without prior and explicit consent.

Just because a piece of paper, signed by you, with your knowledge, says something does not trump your rights. Statutory rights. Sound familiar?

It's a dirty move, but it's also a stupid - and unenforceable - one. As I said at the time - try it, Paypal - just go for it. See what happen with the backing of EU law, no matter what I agreed to, where you are based or anything else.

Companies do not make the law. The law makes companies.

canceling in 3... 2... 1....

[roc97007]

I'm self-employed and generally get paid through Paypal. If that means getting forced robocall ads, that will be the end of our relationship. This is not negotiable.

and to this day...

[Lead Butthead]

... as PayPal fell under the banking regulations and played by a different set of rules... Just like working at a bank.

And to this day PayPal continues to fight tooth and nail to have itself _NOT_ classified as a bank in the US to evade banking regulations.

Re:Paypal shouldn't ask

[Stan92057]

Well the only thing i can tell you is keep reporting. For when the FCC finally does do something about it every complain is added in to the final fine. The million dollar fines are the 10,000 per complaint call all added up. They win when we give up.