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Security Oversights and Complacency Set the Stage For Killers' Escape

Posted by timothy on from the if-clint-eastwood-can-do-it dept.

HughPickens.com writes: The NY Times reports that although no single lapse or mistake in security enabled two killers to break out of the Clinton Correctional Facility two weeks ago, it is now clear that an array of oversights, years in the making, set the stage for the prison break and for the ensuing manhunt. According to the Times, a sense of complacency had taken hold that in some ways might have been understandable: "There had not been an escape from the 170-year-old prison in decades, and officials say no one had ever broken out of the maximum-security section. ... 'As the months go by, years go by, things get less strict,' says [retired corrections officer] Keith Provost. ... [U]nlike many prisons and jails across the country, there are no video cameras on the cellblocks at the Clinton facility that might have detected suspicious activity." And although prison rules forbid putting sheets across cell bars to obstruct viewing, in practice, officers say, inmates frequently were allowed to hang sheets for lengthy periods. Officials say there is a good chance that the two men had been at work on their plan for weeks, maybe months. Night after night, the authorities have come to believe, the two men stuffed their beds with crude dummies, slipped out of holes they had cut in the back of their cells and climbed down five stories using the piping along the walls. They then set to work inside the tunnels under the prison, spending hours preparing their path of escape before returning to their cells unobserved. No contemporary prison break has reminded me so much of the 1962 breakout from Alcatraz (theories on survival aside).

80 comments

  1. Shawshank Redemption by DigiShaman · · Score: 1

    nuff said

    --
    Life is not for the lazy.
    1. Re:Shawshank Redemption by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Good call, but a pity that it was only the escape part and didn't expose massive high level corruption and abuse as well. I'm OK with Andy getting away, but not those two.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    2. Re:Shawshank Redemption by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      a pity that it was only the escape part and didn't expose massive high level corruption and abuse as well.

      The corruption and abuse in the prison system, and the collusion between the prison industry, the unions, and the police, to keep it going, does not need to be "exposed" because it is done openly, and generally with the support of the public. Any attempt to fix the prisons needs to start with a massive reduction in the number of people incarcerated. Per capita, America imprisons far more than other countries, and far more than even authoritarian countries such as China and Russia.

      Before election day, you will see ads, and receive mailers, from politicians promising to "get tough on crime", along with endorsements by the police chief, and the police union. Please vote for someone else.

      List of countries by incarceration rate

    3. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Moridineas · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The corruption and abuse in the prison system, and the collusion between the prison industry, the unions, and the police, to keep it going, does not need to be "exposed" because it is done openly, and generally with the support of the public. Any attempt to fix the prisons needs to start with a massive reduction in the number of people incarcerated. Per capita, America imprisons far more than other countries, and far more than even authoritarian countries such as China and Russia.

      If you add the number of forced "stays" at mental health hospitals in other countries, the numbers are substantially equalized. This is, of course, damning on its own, as the US has defaulted to using prisons and jails to incarcerate the mentally ill. This is not ideal from a humane or a fiscal point of view.

      Another counter argument is that crime rates have dramatically and universally fallen across the US during the same time period that rates of incarceration have risen.

      Before election day, you will see ads, and receive mailers, from politicians promising to "get tough on crime", along with endorsements by the police chief, and the police union. Please vote for someone else.

      I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Pretty much every organization, and certainly every union out there from the Piano Tuners 421 to the police, are going to endorse somebody. Having lived in Chicago--well-known as a union town--for several years in the 00's, and around the country, I don't recall anything like the level of organization you are claiming. I've certainly never received a mailer from a police union, nor do I think I've ever seen an ad run by the union.

    4. Re:Shawshank Redemption by DigiShaman · · Score: 0

      Well to be fair, regarding China and Russia, if your criminals are not already executed, they will soon die from TB and forced labor in camps. So yeah, their prison populations won't be so high.

      --
      Life is not for the lazy.
    5. Re: Shawshank Redemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Forced psychiatric institutionalization decreased substantially in all industrialized countries in the last few decades of the 20th century.

      What you're describing is the Penrose Hypothesis. But the data doesn't support your particular assertion.

      As for increased incarceration causing the decreased crying rate? Crime began falling before incarceration rates skyrocketed. And crime fell in all American jurisdictions, even those where the incarceration rates didn't increase. Crime also fell in all industrialized countries.

    6. Re:Shawshank Redemption by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      To be fair? Russia hasn't executed anybody for 20 years or so.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    7. Re: Shawshank Redemption by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      I believe its also been proven through a thorough meta-study that the lead in fuel was causing an increase in violent crime.

    8. Re:Shawshank Redemption by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      I hardly think those are the countries we want to model our systems after.

    9. Re: Shawshank Redemption by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      I believe its also been proven through a thorough meta-study that the lead in fuel was causing an increase in violent crime.

      Yes, it has. And that's why they took it out.

      Of course, you can still find people who are pissed that they did.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    10. Re:Shawshank Redemption by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      The corruption and abuse in the prison system, and the collusion between the prison industry, the unions, and the police, to keep it going, does not need to be "exposed" because it is done openly, and generally with the support of the public.

      Could you expand on this? What is it you think is going on? Do you think people are put in prison that haven't committed a criminal offense? Note that is different from things being against the law that you think shouldn't be. Do you think people aren't being released properly? Is this a rant about private prisons? What exactly is your complaint? The concern about Russian and China wasn't solely a question of how many people were in prison, but how and why they got there.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    11. Re:Shawshank Redemption by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Well to be fair, regarding China and Russia, if your criminals are not already executed

      Russia has not executed anyone since 1996. China executes more than any other country, but they still account for a miniscule proportion of the prison population. They both have smaller prison populations because they imprison fewer people for shorter durations. Duh.

    12. Re:Shawshank Redemption by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      crime rates have dramatically and universally fallen across the US during the same time period that rates of incarceration have risen.

      1. Crime rates have fallen dramatically in other countries as well.
      2. Crime rates fell just as much in states that didn't massively increase prison populations, as in states that did.

    13. Re:Shawshank Redemption by reboot246 · · Score: 2

      Maybe not officially executed, but several of Putin's opponents and naysayers wound up dead anyway.

    14. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 0

      People are being imprisoned for essentially 'made up' reasons, yes. For instance you might be one of a certain unfortunate minority who is constantly pulled over by the cops basically for every conceivable excuse. Now if you were me (a WASP) you might get a warning for your tail light being burned out (as I did a while back by a cop who was very polite). If you're not so fortunate you're getting tossed against the fender of your car, beat up side the head, and when you object you're tossed in jail for 'resisting arrest' or some variation thereof. Now, after a couple weeks, when your job is good and set sail, etc. You will come up before a judge, who will not only give you 30 days, but charge you about $1000 for "court system costs" and when you obviously can't pay them, you'll spend literally an unlimited amount of time in prison until you're so lucky as to have someone cough up the money (Oh, and on top of that a prison housing fee, meanwhile you get to do prison labor for $1 a day which some business profits off of).

      If you doubt me, do a little research, this is literally the standard operating procedure in most of the US today. Even black children are incarcerated like this and put in debt bondage to the state, though the charges will be school-related (delinquency, assault for talking back to a teacher, etc). Welcome to Prison World!

      --
      "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
    15. Re:Shawshank Redemption by cold+fjord · · Score: 2

      No, that isn't "literally the standard operating procedure in most of the US today." That is nonsense.

      Your statement about "black children are incarcerated like this and put in debt bondage to the state" is rubbish, absolute rubbish.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    16. Re:Shawshank Redemption by umghhh · · Score: 1

      The toughest punishment would seem to require the most accurate judgment and as we know lots of prisoners come out free from a death row after DNA evidence was verified. The same evidence that FBI labors apparently fucked up so much that one would think the error was systemic and not sporadic as one would hope. Taken this into account one would be forgiven to think that for crimes of lesser weight the procedures used were more relaxed.
      This all is only for failures in the system that are failures also with current law. The whole deal or rot forever system is broken too. Not too mention that US systems are rather brutal - comparing to other countries considered civilized - less apparent violence in all other Western countries. DEA and all he corruption that is associated with it adds to the whole misery as are mandatory minimum sentences. You can look at specific failure points but how about looking at statistics and showing why US has to incarcerate and execute so many?
      Tough on crime sells well. US citizens dislike liberals. Every criminal freed from prison that fails to stay straight is a reason to go for maximum. There is a lot of nonsense in US justice and penitentiary systems (as well as in law and law enforcement) and some people supporting this nonsense profit from it while having enough funds and not feel not enough restraint to use the wealth to support own position when law is created/revised. Who can blame them - it is American way....

    17. Re: Shawshank Redemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Go back under your rock!

    18. Re: Shawshank Redemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody else is going to fit with you under there, but it is generous of you to offer to give it up.

    19. Re: Shawshank Redemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Until recently in Texas minors as young as 12 would be sent to adult prison for too much truancy. Fines accumulated would follow them into adultthood. Naturally this mostly affected the underprivileged who are overwhelmingly minorities. This was quite literally debt bondage.

    20. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suppose we had better, amirite?

      No, your just a part of a dying breed of ignorance that is well past its time to shrivel up into irrelevance

    21. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I respect European countries' handling of prisoners. They don't rip out all abilities to live independently out of the system, but actually work on introducing the person back as a functioning member of society.

      And I'm saying this as a native Texan, coming from a state where possessing more than four dildos is a felony, but bestiality is legal.

      What is wrong with the US is the private prison industry. This, and the fact that 48 states signed an agreement with the private corporations that they have to keep _all_ prison beds at 90% capacity, or pay fines by the hour. The industry has their campaign donations and lobbyists, so judges are elected or ejected by their conviction ratio. Even the public defenders have to maintain a conviction ratio, so this is why they demand the defendant pleads guilty to all charges first thing, then says plea bargains must be made.

      Unions are a good thing... they gave us the weekend, and got our kids out of the coal mines. I don't blame them for the prison rate. In fact, it would be nice if the US had the same law as Germany, where union reps were on company boards and shaped decision processes.

      The other problem in the US is the press and lack of education. The press wants people fearful; it brings eyeballs, so politicians answer that by having longer prison sentences and making more felonies. Vicious cycle.

    22. Re: Shawshank Redemption by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Won't someone think of the valve seats?? ;)

    23. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Harlequin80 · · Score: 1

      The primary difference between the USA and other developed countries is the length of the prison sentences. As for forced mental hospital stays I don't think that comes even close to covering the difference. I am struggling to find any authoritative numbers for forced mental health stays in Australia but if we assume that all the available beds in our health mental health system are used for forced stays then that is 4625 beds as a maximum. https://mhsa.aihw.gov.au/resou...

      Our criminal incarceration rate is about 185 per 100,000 population [1] and the current prison population is 33791. Assuming we added all of those 4625 beds as new prisoners this would bring the total to 38416. Assuming all other things are equal, ie duration, at that number we would be looking at 210 per 100,000 which is still dramatically lower than the 750+ per 100,000 in the USA.

      In essence forced mental stays play basically no part in hiding the incarceration rate in Australia.

      [1] http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats...

    24. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I thought the incarceration rate in Australia was 100%.

    25. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      While we did have a mandatory life sentence for cannabis cultivation in QLD (don't laugh, it's only 10 years for killing a cop, and one guy got life for being in possession of cannabis seeds that "sprouted" while in the evidence locker) - the law was revoked a while back. Meanwhile in the US there is at least one guy serving 13 years for possession of 2 joints - he's not eligible for parole until he's served 10 years. (here in Oz it's called a "spent conviction" after 5 offense free years - which makes it an offense for someone to point at you and say "criminal").

      The major difference is the laws don't vary much between Australian States and Territories. The USA not so much. While we (Oz) do have some strange laws by US standards (yeah, we ban having guns for the sake of having guns - and don't have the same 1:34 justifiable to non-justifiable shootings ratio) - the USA has "fucking insane" laws by comparison - especially some of the southern states. You can be charged with an offense for letting your children walk to school - playing unattended, and extremely fascist laws about soft drugs (in some states).

    26. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      I thought the incarceration rate in Australia was 100%.

      That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

    27. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      Your statement about "black children are incarcerated like this and put in debt bondage to the state" is rubbish, absolute rubbish." That is nonsense.

      Do you have a source to back your claim that Giant Electric Bra is wrong? Because it seems, sadly, you are very much incorrect:-

      Next you'll be telling us people don't go to jail for owing the IRS.

    28. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      " Do you think people are put in prison that haven't committed a criminal offense?"

      First, I can guarantee you people are put in prison for crimes they didn't commit all the time in the US. This is a known fact, not conjecture. Of course the real issue is that so many people are incarcerated for victimless crimes, as you well know.

      "Do you think people aren't being released properly?"

      You clearly know all the real issues and are trolling (as usual), as you keep mentioning the issues and denying them. Obviously they aren't releasing criminals properly. Every day hundreds of thousands are released from prisons into the street with no place to go, no money, and no assistance. Gee .. I wonder why we have a high recidivism rate?

      " What exactly is your complaint?"

      His complaint is that this continues, and will continue, so long as the world is full of so many morons such as yourself. HTH

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    29. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      can't speak for GP, but that *is* happening, particularly with juvenile prisons. A few years back a judge in PA got convicted for his part in one particular scheme and it even got reported here, I'm sure. But who even remembers?

      The criminal justice system is run as a business (which should make libertarians happy, I suppose) and that means all sorts of things. Like getting convicted of molesting a minor because you shared a photo (to an undercover LEA posing as a 13-year old) of yourself (male) wearing a bra. The sex crime laws, at least in the midwest, are archaic and enforced with an intent to enrich the state through fines.

      These things don't make the news. Its hard to find out about them unless it briefly escalates into a scandal. But at least some departments fund themselves through sex-crime fines. For-profit prisons are filled with "undesirables" who often haven't committed any crime.

      And this doesn't even get into the civil forfeiture arena.

    30. Re: Shawshank Redemption by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Won't someone think of the valve seats?? ;)

      At least they were thinking of the spark plugs.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    31. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Harlequin80 · · Score: 1

      Your definition of a spent conviction is not quite right. In particular if you have served more than 30 months in prison a conviction is never spent. There are also a number of exceptions to when spent convictions must still be disclosed, in particular around background checks for working with kids, security clearances & criminal proceedings.

      It also doesn't prevent someone from pointing at you and calling you a criminal. What it allows is for you to choose to not disclose the information that you have had a criminal conviction if asked. Only NT & Tas have legislation which states that spent convictions cannot be considered if the employer happened to be aware of them already, you just don't HAVE to tell them if asked. So in the other states you would need to challenge the discrimination at the fair work tribunal and your mileage may vary.

      Source: I work in employment.

      Here is the definition:

      Under the Scheme an individual’s conviction is spent where:

      the individual has been granted a pardon for a reason other than that the individual was wrongly convicted of the offence, or
      the individual was not sentenced to imprisonment for the offence (or not imprisoned for more than 30 months) and the waiting period for the offence has ended.
      The waiting period is ten years beginning on the day on which the individual was convicted of the offence, or five years in the case of a juvenile offender (generally being a person under the age of 18 except in Queensland where it is under the age of 17).

      The waiting period is intended to demonstrate that an individual has been of ‘good behaviour’ since being convicted.

      An individual who is convicted of a further offence committed during the waiting period will generally lose the right to have the earlier conviction treated as spent until the waiting period for the later conviction is ended.

    32. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      [...] In particular if you have served more than 30 months in prison a conviction is never spent.

      Spent conviction schemes vary from State to State (and Vic has none). The 30 month rule only applies to the Commonwealth and QLD (I've worked in Cth vetting). Note also that exemptions are made to those rules e.g. Michael Coutts-Trotter I don't disagree with the rest of what you say - except that you've overlooked the Privacy and Discrimination Acts, and civil remedies that apply "if you have obtained a spent conviction and someone makes it known that you have a criminal record" e.g. an NV1 cleared person whose relative told a journalist they've previously been convicted of cannabis possession. The person had disclosed the previous offense to vetting. Both the relative and the journalist settled out of court as the result of civil proceedings. If the journalist had published she could have been charged under the Discrimination act. The AFP considered charging the relative with other related offenses (be careful what you say about people in classified positions).

      My point was that we have Spent Convictions schemes - not that it applied to every state, or was uniform.

    33. Re:Shawshank Redemption by cold+fjord · · Score: 1

      Which if that applies to black children? I hadn't noticed that black children were a big target of the IRS.

      --
      much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
    34. Re:Shawshank Redemption by Demonoid-Penguin · · Score: 1

      Which of that applies to black children?

      What age range do you define children by?
      Note: I'm not suggesting that incarceration for debt is "literally the standard operating procedure in most of the US today.", only in some states of the US (a minority - the Angola Plantation would be a case in point).

      I hadn't noticed that black children were a big target of the IRS.

      Apologies, that was wrong. It was a poorly considered response meant about debt incarceration in general (something the USA is not the only country that's guilty of). I've no reason to believe the IRS is racially bigoted (not that I've researched the subject). Or that they've imprisoned minors.

  2. break out or break in by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    usually, it involves an inside job. "social engineering"

  3. Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    Why do we care so much about these two random guys who escaped from prison?

    You want to care about prison conditions? Try asking yourself how many people have died in that prison. Try asking how many people have been raped in that prison.

    Then ask about the rest of them in this country.

    1. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We care because of the crimes that were committed.

      Let's say some criminal sodomized you against your will. He sexes your anus without remorse, causing extensive physical and mental damage to you. You also get AIDS and syphilis. He also molested your rectum with a broom handle, and shows no remorse at all.

      Are you really suggesting that somebody who subjected you to a criminal act like that shouldn't be punished for what he did, and that he shouldn't be isolated to try to prevent such a crime from happening again?

    2. Re:Who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We care because of the crimes that were committed.

      No you don't. You care because the media keeps bringing it up.

      Are you really suggesting that somebody who subjected you to a criminal act like that shouldn't be punished for what he did, and that he shouldn't be isolated to try to prevent such a crime from happening again?

      So when that occurs in prison, what do you suggest we do?

    3. Re:Who cares? by Noah+Haders · · Score: 1

      Try asking how many people have been raped in that prison.

      That's why they have to put the sheets over the bars.

    4. Re:Who cares? by rubycodez · · Score: 0

      I don't want to spend the money to keep such a person, just kill that kind and reform the appeal process so that kind of garbage disposal is very cheap

    5. Re:Who cares? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I suggest we keep them isolated but there are many people complaining about administrative custody.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    6. Re:Who cares? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Yeah! Fuck due process!

    7. Re:Who cares? by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      conviction in a court of law AND proper appeal process that doesn't drag, that's is due process. News for you, the Founding Fathers were ok with due process that ended in death sentence.

  4. On the plus side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Convicts usually don't have much of a plan for when they get out so will likely be caught.

    We are fortunate that most criminals are epically stupid because law enforcement and correctional officers are generally quite dumb.

    1. Re:On the plus side by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      I certainly wouldn't fancy their odds over the medium to long term(it isn't exactly getting easier, for anyone, to conduct most aspects of modern life without leaving a handy trail through a variety of databases; and explaining gaps in your employment history is enough fun if you actually were ill/unemployed/etc rather than 'in prison for murder' so your future options are kind of limited); but these two have done much better than average, especially when you consider that they apparently had to work without a getaway driver.

      Upstate NY is fairly big, and has some heavily wooded and otherwise potentially helpful terrain; but they started with quite limited resources and a modest head start; while the authorities have numbers, hardware, and the likely cooperation of most of the residents of the area; this isn't exactly Robin Hood hiding out from the king's men.

    2. Re:On the plus side by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      These guys are clever. They got out, now they have infinitely more options and cards to play than they had to actually get out. I don't think you'll see them again, unless they get too cocky or unlucky.

    3. Re:On the plus side by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      They are certainly performing above average(if memory serves, escapees who aren't immediately whisked away by their powerful crime family or something are lucky to make 48 hours, and they remain at large at time of writing); but I have to wonder if their impulse control has improved during their incarceration. If your idea of protesting your firing involves dismembering your boss with a hacksaw, you might not be on the cutting edge of interpersonal diplomacy.

    4. Re:On the plus side by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      ... dismembering your boss with a hacksaw, you might not be on the cutting edge of interpersonal diplomacy.

      On the contrary.

  5. Complacency kills by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just look at the new dicedot user interface......

  6. You need outside audits by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Rigorous audits, some coming at unannounced times, that will collect the logs, records and surveillance tapes for the past several weeks and then go analyze them. With authority superior to the local prison officials.

    The problem is that nobody is ever rewarded for averting a catastrophe that nobody suspects has a non-negligible chance of arising. Before 9/11, the chairwoman of Massport, which operated Boston's Logan Airport from which two planes were hijacked, made it clear that her #1 priority was to get passengers through the airport and onto the planes as quickly as possible. It probably should've been the Federal government (now DHS/TSA) that has to step in and overrule the local administrators in these types of situations.

  7. Thanks, Obama! by Chelloveck · · Score: 3, Funny

    If Hillary can't even keep people in her own private prison, how can we expect her to run the country?

    --
    Chelloveck
    I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
    1. Re:Thanks, Obama! by turp182 · · Score: 1

      Did you buy your low UID? That group is usually more insightful.

      The Republicrats are one party and they control the entire election process. Third parties are doomed from the start regardless of funding.

      --
      BlameBillCosby.com
    2. Re:Thanks, Obama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Woosh

    3. Re:Thanks, Obama! by mutherhacker · · Score: 1

      You might be joking but I wouldn't be surprised if there's pre-election period motivation for this story :/

    4. Re:Thanks, Obama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And comments like yours is why I disregard anyone with a UID greater than a million on /. They broke out of the Clinton Correctional Facility in NY -- it's a joke. Thanks Obama! :P

  8. Where they're searching next by spudnic · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Does anyone else find it odd that the press is reporting where the police will be searching next for the escapees? Who are they trying to help here?

    --
    load "linux",8,1
    1. Re:Where they're searching next by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      The press has been doing that in war situations also for quite a long time now. Yes, it's very odd.

  9. in the USA people use the jail / prison as there d by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As the er does cover all

  10. Nuclear Power by Giant+Electronic+Bra · · Score: 1

    That's the best analogy here. Sooner or later you get a bit too complacent, and then BANG! Every system is flawed as long as it has humans in it. What we need are robot police and prison guards, errrrr overlords! Yeah! lol.

    --
    "Malo periculosam, libertatem quam quietam servitutem." -- Jefferson
  11. Should the escapees be hired? by mi · · Score: 0

    I'm OK with Andy getting away, but not those two.

    Why not? Given this site's usual attitude towards hackers/crackers (like Mr. Mitnick, et al), I expected calls for the two escapees being offered a job securing prisons nation- and even world-wide.

    Maybe, Slashdot still has enough intellectual capacity left to distinguish between murderers and pranksters... That'd be as reassuring as it is optimistic, though.

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re: Should the escapees be hired? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mitnick didn't kill anyone. Also notice Hans Reiser gets no glory here.

  12. Why is high incarceration bad? by mi · · Score: 1

    The corruption and abuse in the prison system

    What "corruption and abuse"? Do you have citations?

    the collusion between the prison industry, the unions, and the police

    Police and prison guards are unionized everywhere — including countries much further down your list...

    Per capita, America imprisons far more than other countries

    You seem to imply, the higher incarceration rate is automatically bad — without offering any evidence or even arguments to support the implication.

    Maybe, our police are just more effective at catching the criminals? Or, perhaps, our lifestyle gives more opportunities to screw-up — such as by stealing from a house left unlocked?

    Note, that I don't know, why we lock so many people up, but if you want to claim, that it is some sort of "conspiracy" — I'd like to hear some arguments and see supporting numbers/statistics...

    politicians promising to "get tough on crime" [...] Please vote for someone else

    Why? Is crime too low in your opinion? Are there too many innocent behind bars?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Why is high incarceration bad? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because if you have that many people in prison, you've got something seriously wrong with your society. People in the USA aren't inherently different than people from Sweden or Russia, so it's not just that you have "a bunch of criminal scum" in that country. You've got a shockingly large number of people in jail for victimless crimes, non-violent crimes, and bogus charges. Then there's the people are are either in prison for life due to brain-dead three-strikes type laws, or people who are unfairly "made an example of" and given preposterously long sentences that are disproportionate to their crime.

      There's also the fact that a paroled prisoner will be punished for the rest of their lives. Forget the old "debt to society, paid in full" myth. Good luck getting a job that pays more than minimum wage, any sort of security clearance, access to personal defense, or a variety of other things free citizens can do. If you were unlucky enough to be charged with a sex crime for urinating in public, or getting a blowjob from a girl one year your junior, you now can't even live wherever you want. They've essentially branded the scarlet S on your forehead. And they wonder why they have problems with reform and repeat offenders...

      It's to be expected from a police state system with private corps running a lot of the prisons, I suppose. America: decline of an empire.

    2. Re:Why is high incarceration bad? by dave420 · · Score: 1

      Because many people are in prison for non-violent offences. The companies which make money from prisons, and the unions along side them, put pressure on the police to ensure people are sent there, as it is in their financial interests. Hell, the police like doing it because it makes them seem "tough on crime", without having to explain the difference between someone having some weed or stabbing a nun in the face - "crime" is "crime", and the tougher they are on it the better for them.

      If the people in prison were there for good reason, then you'd have a point. As it is a sizeable portion are there for absolutely no good reason, and the system actively encourages that.

    3. Re:Why is high incarceration bad? by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 1

      " Are there too many innocent behind bars?"

      You are close. There are too many innocent of any crime with an actual victim in prison. Perhaps you forgot, but here in the US most places still lock people up if they are discovered having a good time and enjoying the day, bothering nobody, smoking a joint.

      --
      Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
    4. Re:Why is high incarceration bad? by mi · · Score: 1

      Because many people are in prison for non-violent offences.

      First of all, like the GP above, you are making statements without citing evidence.

      Second, "non-violent" does not mean anything — Mr. Madoff, however non-violent, is far more deserving of prison time, than some guy involved in a (violent) bar brawl, for example. That Madoff's will die in prison, while a brawler is unlikely to spend more than a few weeks in the lock-up, seems perfectly fine to me. In addition to embezzlers, other examples of (usually) non-violent crimes are drug-dealers and pedophiles — just to name a few.

      The companies which make money from prisons, and the unions along side them

      As I noted already, people and corporations profit from running prisons everywhere in the world — including countries much further down the list of incarcerations per-capita.

      a sizeable portion are there for absolutely no good reason

      Repeating this statement over and over again without citing statistics does not substantiate it.

      I specifically asked for substantiation — why is the high rate of incarceration automatically deemed bad, rather than, for example, as proof of good work by our legal system. Your response makes the same unsubstantiated assertions without adding any clarity... Fail.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  13. Google street view did not help? by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

    They thought the google street view cars are on the prowl catching escaped prisoners. May be that caused the laxed security. "Where can they hide? Google will find them!" must have been the attitude of the wardens. http://www.psfk.com/2012/08/un...

    --
    sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
  14. "We've always done it that way" by davidwr · · Score: 1

    'As the months go by, years go by, things get less strict,'

    Sounds like if they had kept doing things the way they'd always done them, the two guys wouldn't have escaped.

    Hmm, I guess "we've always done it that way" is a good reason to at least think before changing things.*

    * However, in many cases, once you do think about things, you realize that the old way is no longer the best way. But in the case of the operations at this particular prison....

    --
    Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
  15. The Worst Part Here... by TaleSpinner · · Score: 1

    ...is that NY has proven it has no place to put Cuomo when they finally convict him of being the most corrupt governor in NY history - which, in view of the competition, is one hell of an accomplishment. But he burnished those credentials right in the midst of the escape when he demanded the police drop everything to give him a tour of the prison and then held everything up so he could take reporters on that same tour to get the right slant down on it. That's why the prison authorities are hopping mad, and that's why the bastards apparently have made it to New Zealand while Cuomo fiddled.

  16. Fox robs hen house by plopez · · Score: 1

    Film at 11.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
    1. Re:Fox robs hen house by plopez · · Score: 1

      crap, wrong thread. Please ignore.

      --
      putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  17. Shite happens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    99.9% effective. Sorry, no way to achieve 100%, too costly, too unrealistic(human), too resource intensive.

  18. Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Security Oversights and Complacency Set the Stage For Killers' Escape

    In other news, water is deemed to be 'wet'.

  19. But did Bill get corrected? by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    That's the only interesting question about the Clinton Correctional Facility.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
  20. What I wrote's nonsense Dave420? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I just reply to you when I see you spamming Slashdot with your nonsense"- by dave420 (699308) on Friday June 19, 2015 @10:31AM (#49945047)

    Why agree w/ my points on hosts then? Quoting you on it next:

    "I'm not denying all those things" - by dave420 (699308) on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @11:39AM (#47927435) FROM -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    Of course you're not: It's impossible to dispute FACT on HOSTS FILES superiority to other methods!

    (Since they're fact in favor of hosts doing more than so-called competitors & doing more with less for more security, speed, reliability, + anonymity online - which is, of course, more than a mere trolling stalking harassing "ne'er-do-well" like yourself could *EVER* manage).

    ---

    "I'm simply pointing out that it takes an AdBlocker to block your spamming"- by dave420 (699308) on Friday June 19, 2015 @10:31AM (#49945047)

    Then WHY DON'T YOU DO THAT, shithead? Answer that!

    If you're "so-called 'better solutions'" are BETTER, & I bother you? Use them... OBVIOUSLY, asshole, you don't & you're just a "ne'er-do-well" troll, OR you have "other motivations" (see next):

    (No, instead you stalk/harass me instead!)

    * DO YOU WORK FOR AN ADVERTISING FIRM, or ARE YOU A WEBMASTER/WEBCODER, or ARE YOU A MALWARE MAKER, or ARE YOU AFFILIATED WITH 1 OF MY COMPETITORS?

    Answer that too!

    I'll be waiting (but you'll avoid every question, or lie - which only makes you look stupider than ever vs. myself)

    (You must be involved with 1 of those above, especially since you're TOO STUPID to EVER "get the best of me" & you know it, witness the above - & their "so-called 'solutions' are INFERIOR TO MINE on TONS of levels, evidencing their stupidity in & of itself via inferior designwork!)

    APK

    P.S.=> SEE Dave420 SQUIRM everybody, lol - evasions galore from him to ensue are almost guaranteed... apk

  21. What I wrote's nonsense Dave420? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I just reply to you when I see you spamming Slashdot with your nonsense"- by dave420 (699308) on Friday June 19, 2015 @10:31AM (#49945047)

    Why agree w/ my points on hosts then? Quoting you on it next:

    "I'm not denying all those things" - by dave420 (699308) on Wednesday September 17, 2014 @11:39AM (#47927435) FROM -> http://yro.slashdot.org/commen...

    Of course you're not: It's impossible to dispute FACT on HOSTS FILES superiority to other methods!

    (Since they're fact in favor of hosts doing more than so-called competitors & doing more with less for more security, speed, reliability, + anonymity online - which is, of course, more than a mere trolling stalking harassing "ne'er-do-well" like yourself could *EVER* manage).

    ---

    "I'm simply pointing out that it takes an AdBlocker to block your spamming"- by dave420 (699308) on Friday June 19, 2015 @10:31AM (#49945047)

    Then WHY DON'T YOU DO THAT, shithead? Answer that!

    If you're "so-called 'better solutions'" are BETTER, & I bother you? Use them... OBVIOUSLY, asshole, you don't & you're just a "ne'er-do-well" troll, OR you have "other motivations" (see next):

    (No, instead you stalk/harass me instead!)

    * DO YOU WORK FOR AN ADVERTISING FIRM, or ARE YOU A WEBMASTER/WEBCODER, or ARE YOU A MALWARE MAKER, or ARE YOU AFFILIATED WITH 1 OF MY COMPETITORS?

    Answer that too!

    I'll be waiting (but you'll avoid every question, or lie - which only makes you look stupider than ever vs. myself)

    (You must be involved with 1 of those above, especially since you're TOO STUPID to EVER "get the best of me" & you know it, witness the above - & their "so-called 'solutions' are INFERIOR TO MINE on TONS of levels, evidencing their stupidity in & of itself via inferior designwork!)

    APK

    P.S.=> SEE Dave420 SQUIRM everybody, lol - evasions galore from him to ensue are almost guaranteed... apk