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Struggling University of Phoenix Lays Off 900
An anonymous reader writes: The struggles facing for-profit colleges continue. The University of Phoenix announced poor quarterly earnings yesterday, and the institution has laid off 900 workers since September. Enrollment is down 14% since last year, and the CEO of its parent company, Apollo Education Group, says enrollment is likely to drop from 206,000 to about 150,000 next year. Apollo's stock has lost more than half its value since the beginning of the year. "Tighter regulations on for-profits and the Obama administration's push to make community college free top the list of headwinds. And non-profit universities have entered the online education space, where for-profit schools once held center stage."
Low profit? Double the tuition! It is not like guaranteed student loans provided to student will turn it down.
This is how we got into this mess - guaranteed loans and inability to discard them in bankruptcy removed all competitive pressures on price.
>> Obama administration's push to make community college free top the list of headwinds
I lean conservative, but I call BS here. Obama's push was dead on arrival and largely forgotten.
>> And non-profit universities have entered the online education space, where for-profit schools once held center stage.
I'm not even sure I believe this. To save money and graduate faster, I picked up many of my 100's and 200's via "telecourses" I purchased through my local community college...and that was in the early 1990s.
One wonders whether it's the "for-profit" nature of the institution, or its "lack of government subsidy" that puts it at relative risk.
Couldn't they just go to Kinkos?
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Agree. Any employer who sees the name "University of Phoenix," or "Devry," or "ITT" etc. on a resume is going to throw that shit right in the trash.
The struggles facing for-profit colleges continue. The University of Phoenix announced poor quarterly earnings yesterday
Cry me a river. These are companies that prey on people who are financially unsophisticated and often have no business being in college. (No disrespect intended but not everyone is college material or is ready for it even if they are) They push huge amounts of debt on people ill prepared to deal with it and provide a shoddy facsimile of an education. No employer is impressed by a degree from these degree factories because they know the "schools" are third rate at best.
Have you actually priced these guys? My ex-wife used them back in 2001-2003 to finish up a BSN degree, and paid an obscene amount of cash each month to do it. They also adopted that neat little trick the state colleges have of requiring 'bridge classes' and of discounting certain courses taken (in favor of pricier ones they provide), so sometimes you're taking superfluous classes and in some cases re-taking classes you'd already taken.
One thing I do wonder about though... most of the oft-touted 'free' community college courses are more towards getting an Associates' degree, whereas Phoenix' big advertising push is for folks who want to convert their 2-year degree into a 4-year one, or to convert a Bachelors' into a Masters'.
Personally, I think their biggest competition is the recent growth of small state-accredited colleges going online, expanding their presence, and pushing to provide the same thing Phoenix does. Many of these colleges have provided this sort of thing remotely (albeit not online, but by 'traveling prof') to military members for decades, but have recently decided to get a piece of the civilian market now.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
These universities only exist to suck money from the department of education, and have nothing to do with actually educating or producing people with skills.
(traditional schools and their palatial grounds and constant build projects are an entirely different topi.)
The problem in the US is the impression You go to School then you go to College with the college degree you can get a good job.
The marketing for the the For Profit takes advantage of this, and tries to make a Job focuses curriculum. But because employers are expecting a college degree, there is a bunch of other classes and stuff that is needed to take, which overall doesn't help out that much.
The traditional colleges, may have their marketing team say this will get you a good job, once you get into the school it is the impression "College is for learning, not job training"
The real solution is to give a better status of vocational training. So someone who wants a job in a particular field can get job training for that field. It isn't necessary for a Computer Science Degree to be a programmer. Also a Computer Science Degree shouldn't need to focus so much on programming, but more on the abstract concepts, that we normally wont get to until grad school.
College should be for learning. We should have a better quality and more positive few towards vocational schools for the Job training.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
I didn't go to college to gain knowledge, I went to get educated.
Let's be honest. You (and I) went to get a diploma and you hoped to learn some hopefully useful stuff along the way. I actually work in the field my degrees are in and I use only a tiny fraction of what they taught. Did they teach me how to think? Debatable. How to work? Already had that before I got to college. Impart some knowledge? Some though not always what I really needed and frequently stuff that was pointless or trivial. Not saying it was a complete waste of time (it wasn't) but calling it "getting educated" versus "gaining knowledge" misses the mark.
No, I went to college to get a diploma so I could get considered for jobs. Fortunately I learned some neat stuff along the way but the cost/benefit for what I got beyond the diploma was WAY out of whack. Seven years of classes for me and over $100K in debt is pretty stiff given that the stuff you really are going to need when you get out you'll mostly learn on the job anyway. Take away the diploma and the doors that opens and it really would not have been worth it.
As a teacher so eloquently put it, anyone with internet access has access to more knowledge than they know what to do with.
I prefer the one I heard which was "Don't confuse your schooling with your education". I learned more from projects outside of class that I never got a single credit-hour for than from all my formal classes combined. I worked through college and I guarantee you I learned more from the jobs than from the classes.
Phoenix and other for profit schools are nothing more than diploma mills. They need to die.
And this is different from state run schools how?
If you actually attended both UoP and any state school, you would understand the difference. I already was self educated so the lack of rigor wasn't a problem (I literally just needed the piece of paper / diploma), but it was truly a waste of time for anyone trying to learn a trade.
To put it in context, here are the 5 assignments I had in my second semester SQL class at UoP. They constituted almost 100% of the grade (the rest was just participation in forums). One assignment was due each week of the 5 week class.
1) Create a database (literally just a CREATE DATABASE command).
2) Create three tables
3) Create foreign key relationships between the tables
4) Populate the tables with data from a CSV file
5) Create a report listing the data ina tabular format
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
As someone who did attend, you are correct that the degrees given by UoP are worthless as anything but a way to get past HR resume filters.
I had no other option in 2009 other than an online degree because I needed to work full time. Standard brick and mortar schools didn't offer online or night school BS programs in anything but a handful of degrees (oddly enough none of them IT related). Today that is no longer the case, so there really is no reason to attend UoP anymore. They simply prey on people with underhanded recruiting, and the world will be a better place when the school is just shut down.
They offered a much needed service 5 years ago because no worthwhile schools were doing it. I was already self taught so I didn't need an education; I just needed a degree. I also decided to get a Masters degree from a real school (plenty of colleges offer good nigh and weekend MS degrees) so I no longer even mention UoP on my resume.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
I presume the "for-profit" is actually related to their IRS status and not their overall financial goals.
For-Profit means that the organization has shareholders and any profits can be distributed without regard to the mission of the organization.
Most colleges are (IRS recognized) non-profits, though they pay high-6 and 7 figure salaries to top officers and have endowments in the billions.
Non profit doesn't mean they don't make a profit. It means they don't distribute their surplus revenues (basically profit) to shareholders but rather put those surplus revenues back into the organization's mission.
University of Phoenix once offered me a part time position teaching an online Statistics course. I have no background in Statistics and told them so. No problem, they said, as they'd give me the course materials.
They wanted to pay be $500 for a one term (semester?) course with 40 people in it. I don't remember what the students were paying, but I do remember that what they were offering me was only a teensy tiny part of it.
They also informed me that I could not fail anyone, nor could I give less than a B to more than 10% of the students, and no less than an A to 70% of the students.
I passed and now consider UOP degrees to be worth the paper they're printed on and not much else.
To be fair, most employers are also third rate at best and will end up staffed with third-rate employees because first-grade ones require first-grade pay and job. It's the pathological refusal to admit mediocrity is okay that causes the whole student debt crisis, since companies dream of being the next Google without any intent to invest anything towards that. It also leads to a cynical workforce that ignores even sensible corporate policies due to having witnessed megalomania and utter disconnect from reality too often.
Work all too often resembles an absurd farce where everyone lies, everyone knows everyone lies, everyone knows that everyone knows that everyone lies, and so on (my personal pet peeve is "zero incidence culture", where no incident is acceptable, thus people wait until work is finished before going to see a doctor if they get hurt to avoid getting punished for costing management their safety bonuses, leading to more sick days and sometimes mortal danger). They go through the motions anyway, since it's a kind of ritual meant to give something that theoretically exists only as legal fiction a palpable presence. The problem is, that presence is all too often heavy and oppressive, a kind of vampire sucking life out of its victims to sustain its own.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Have you actually priced these guys? My ex-wife used them back in 2001-2003 to finish up a BSN degree, and paid an obscene amount of cash each month to do it. They also adopted that neat little trick the state colleges have of requiring 'bridge classes' and of discounting certain courses taken (in favor of pricier ones they provide), so sometimes you're taking superfluous classes and in some cases re-taking classes you'd already taken.
One thing I do wonder about though... most of the oft-touted 'free' community college courses are more towards getting an Associates' degree, whereas Phoenix' big advertising push is for folks who want to convert their 2-year degree into a 4-year one, or to convert a Bachelors' into a Masters'.
Personally, I think their biggest competition is the recent growth of small state-accredited colleges going online, expanding their presence, and pushing to provide the same thing Phoenix does. Many of these colleges have provided this sort of thing remotely (albeit not online, but by 'traveling prof') to military members for decades, but have recently decided to get a piece of the civilian market now.
The thing is, what matters isn't the final bill. What matters, in recent years, has been the apparent short-term affordability of such institutions.
Two things have been happening in higher education in the last 15 years. One, a recession drove many people out of the work force, and a lot of those people instead turned to higher education while they were idling as a way to improve their marketability and also kind of hit the 'pause' button on working until things improved. And two, most of those people did it by taking on student debt. For-profit schools flourished during this time, because they understood that the name of the game to growing their enrollments was at least as much about how to finance the education as it was about the nature of the education itself.
But now, two other things are happening that counteract each of those effects. One, the job market is growing steadily, and even more importantly, people are returning to the work force. That's how it's possible for more and more net job creation to take place, and yet for unemployment (the number of people *looking for work* who are unemployed) to rise at the same time. And two, everyone has suddenly caught on to the fact that people are racking up massive amounts of debt to finance these classes, without really gaining all that much in the way of job opportunity. So the drive towards education using this model fades, and a counterforce starts pushing away from it.
Really, this was inevitable...it's almost like there was a "higher education bubble" that is bursting as we watch. Instead of it being funded by subprime mortgages and shady income verification, it has been funded by aggressive student loan processes and overstated promises by many institutions.
For your security, this post has been encrypted with ROT-13, twice.
It'll take a generation to get online education up to snuff, getting the curricula, controls, and individualized instruction in place.
Fine. Let's assume that is true even though I don't really buy that argument. That still is no excuse for scamming a bunch of people into taking on crushing debt while providing no meaningful education nor a credible diploma from a respected institution. Hell, many of them aren't even accredited. Even if they haven't figured all the details out that is NO excuse for the fraud that these institutions are committing on thousands of people.
These private collages, such as university of phoenix, result in 90% of the student loan defaults while they service less than 10% of students. That staggering percentage is why the Government is going after these institutions. There are MANY private schools that aren't targeted because they don't have these problems.
Hallelujah about friggin time.
The University of Phoenix and others of it's ilk are the proverbial scum of academia, the quicker they cease to exist the better for us, our culture and our society.
According to recent reportin (google NPR) UoP, suckered returning GI's from Afghanistan and Iraq out of more than $1,000,000,000.00 in GI benfits yielding a graduation rate of 7.3%! and for those lucky enough to get a "degree" vast numbers had to find out out the hard way that the accreditation that these "degrees" afforded were basically worthless. Spamming millions via email with their scams, hosting events at military bases to "advise" future students of how wonderful their shit is, these parasitic fuckwads have set back the cause of higher education multiple generations. Who amongst us would even council the youth of today to pursue a higher education? Now before you think I am not being fair to the well intentioned souls who work for UoP let me state this: As long as the federal student loan system/GI benefits system are in bed with the major financial institutions, creating a system where the US government earns 9 figure sums per year, while indebting countless millions of people to the tune of $1,000,000,000,000.00 can we really be mad at those capitalist "entrepreneurs" who know how to take advantage of a system designed to fuck millions with permanent indenture while at the same enriching exactly those who least need enrichment in our society?
Fuck for profit "universities".(*note for-profit != private, other criteria is needed to weed out the parasitic scum from genuine institutions of higher learning )
Fuck the federal student loan program.
Fuck the congresscritters responsible for this shit.
Private for-profit colleges are welcome to continue to operate in any way or form without getting government hand-outs in form of grants and guaranteed loans. The problem administration is addressing is that of outcomes, and it is equally applicable to any type of college. If the job prospects and earning potential of graduates falls below certain cutoff, then the program is no longer eligible for the taxpayer subsidies. It just happen that 99% of such programs are in for-profit institutions. Why? Because in order to maximize profits, these for profit institutions maximized enrollment and reduced the minimum level of academic accomplishments to gain a degree. This also reduced the value of such degree in the job market.
Is this unique to U of P, or are their competitors having the same problems?
If I were a company I would rather hire you with a 100.000USD debt than somebody with a 10.000USD debt. The power I have over you is 10 times that of what I have over the other person.
That means I can presss much more extra hours out of you without any need to pay for a longer period,while the other person might easily say "Fuck this, I quit."
This will not work in each an every situation, but in general? Hell yeah!
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
How do you propose Pennsylvania compete in the global market in 30 years when % of educated professionals drops through the floor? You do understand how labor markets work, don't you? Silicon Valley exists in California not because they are friendly to corporations or have low taxes out there.
it seems like, since UofP started, a lot more Unis have upped their game for online-classes to get their standard degree.
I hate to spam, but here is something you need to look at if you're looking to get an accredited online degree: www.wgu.edu. Western Governors University is affordable: $3000 per 6 month term, where you can do as many credits as you can. I got my MSc in 18 months, for 9k. Everything was online, except graduation, which was a big party in Utah.
5 Stars, strongly recommend.
I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.