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America's Technical Debt

Funksaw writes: An article by Brian Boyko in Equal Citizens, Lawrence Lessig's blog dealing with issues of institutional corruption in democratic politics, explains why, specifically, this reform movement needs (more) people with technical minds and technical skills.

Quoting: "What we need are more people willing to look at the laws of this country based on their function. And when I use the word 'function,' I mean very specifically the same sense that a computer programmer means it. (Because lord knows, government isn't functioning by any other definition.) ... It's not just that big money politics is being injected [like a code injection] into the function of democracy. It's also that the function of democracy can be warped by an injection. Stopping the injection of money into our democratic function still leaves the function vulnerable to the same — or similar — injection attack.... We need people who can solve the problems of politics like a programmer solves problems in computer code, because a democratic system with vulnerabilities is a democratic system that can fail or be made to fail."

The author is the technical adviser to the New Hampshire Rebellion and Mayday.US, two of Lessig's major reform projects.

25 of 165 comments (clear)

  1. Holy shit, this is some wank. by bistromath007 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Leaving aside the completely ridiculous assertion that a system composed of people can be debugged in the same manner as code simply because it happens to be called a "code" of law, the author seems to be unaware that just about every problem with the democratic process has a solution which some part of history has already provided. We simply aren't using them because one of the many safeguards of the system is making the important parts (which are unfortunately the ones troubling us) difficult to change. We are in a degenerate case of democracy; the players who historically won the game have absolutely no interest in changing the rules to make them more fair. It really cannot be fixed without war.

    1. Re: Holy shit, this is some wank. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      So we need a programmer for laws. I shall call this profession .... Lawyer.

    2. Re:Holy shit, this is some wank. by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It really cannot be fixed without war.

      Coolest thing about American democracy........if you can convince enough people to follow you that you'd be able to win a war, then you'll probably be able to convince enough people to vote for you without a war.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:Holy shit, this is some wank. by Attila+Dimedici · · Score: 2, Interesting

      he ended the war in Iraq as quickly as reasonable,...

      Have you read the news about what is going on in Iraq lately? That looks an awful lot like the war hasn't ended.

      --
      The truth is that all men having power ought to be mistrusted. James Madison
    4. Re: Holy shit, this is some wank. by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      The fatal flaw is when people don't pay attention. If the public doesn't pay attention, than the ones who do will get into power.

      No constitution you can conceive will save ignoramuses from themselves.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:Holy shit, this is some wank. by tlambert · · Score: 2

      Or every so often a Senator Obama comes along, wins, and then we end up with President Obama, a far cry from what we were sold,

      [...]He tried to shut down Guantanamo[...]

      He issued the executive order.

      Which he then rescinded.

      As commander in chief, he could have, in fact, just ordered the troops out, period.

      Guantanamo is politically useful for its extraterritoriality. Even to Obama, who has ordered the execution of U.S. citizens, without trial, via drone strike, in Afghanistan.

    6. Re: Holy shit, this is some wank. by tedgyz · · Score: 2

      Seriously - this should be modded Insightful

      --
      "No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai
    7. Re:Holy shit, this is some wank. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 3, Funny

      .if you can convince enough people to follow you that you'd be able to win a war, then you'll probably be able to convince enough people to vote for you without a war.

      But I spent a fuckton of money on this here firearm with "Don't Thead On Me" engraved on the receiver, and I aim to kill me something.

      [Note: It was supposed to read "Don't Tread On Me", but I let Jimbo from gas station do the etching because of his experience doing prison tattoos and he got to smoking meth. It's still a sweet rifle, though. I may let him turn all the letters into Olde English so then nobody will be able to tell the difference between an "h" and an "r". It's a good thing I didn't let him go ahead and draw the coiled up snake too, because the one tattooed to his belly looks like a goddamn pile of turds.]

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    8. Re: Holy shit, this is some wank. by bistromath007 · · Score: 3

      People don't pay attention because individuals in any sufficiently large, sufficiently centralized society quickly learn that their engagement is irrelevant.

      Functional democracy is only possible when the amount of power any one entity can hold is limited to what a person is capable of meaningfully understanding within their lifetime. In other words, their immediate surroundings; a small city. If legislative power goes any higher than that, corruption becomes impossible to stop due to it happening faster than people are capable of recognizing what it is.

  2. Wrong problem by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It's not the laws per se (though some, like the ACA, are atrocious at many levels). It's the low-information voters. There are plenty of cases where motivated voters who actually pay attention will vote contrary to what the money spent on the campaign would (if Lessig were right) say that they'd vote. The problem is that most of the time, voters are two dumb to actually understand the issues at stake or the consequences of their actions. Fix the dumbness, and you fix all sorts of other cultural mal-consequences (not just clumsy politics and gimme-dat laws).

    Not saying that producing informed, critical-thinking-capable young people is easy, just that the payoff for doing so is huge, and not just in the area being discussed.

    --
    Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
    1. Re:Wrong problem by ScentCone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Granted some part of me does wonder if maybe with computer based voting if it'd be possible to actually do a pure democracy and everybody vote on every law.

      Disaster.

      Democratic republics were originally simply because it was unfeasible to have a paper election so frequently

      We are structured the way we are specifically to avoid the tyranny of the democratic majority.

      --
      Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
  3. I think maybe the opposite by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    We already have technicians who work with the law, they're called lawyers and their very technical sophistication is what enables a lot of the clusterfuckery which takes place. Creating and finding loopholes, manipulation of the legal process, etc. And they also write the rules in very technical language, enabling a kind of only-we-understand-it monopoly control.

    Maybe what we need is more non-technicians to eliminate the technical meddling.

    1. Re:I think maybe the opposite by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I tend to think programmers could be perfect for this. Not in the sense of actually writing the laws or enforcement, but to put the laws through code review. Think about it.

      "Are you aware that this clause leads to this potential loophole?"
      "I'm sorry, but I have to reject the whole thing, it's sloppy and I can't follow what's going on."

      And since the standard programmer isn't privy to legalese, it would be ideal to make them written in language non-experts could understand. Just have to keep it a rotating group of programmers. I honestly think it'd be kind of fun. But to heck with it, don't limit it to programmers, make it something like jury duty. You get selected out of a pool to spend a day peer reviewing the laws. If you don't understand what it's trying to say, you reject it. See an obvious loophole, you reject it. At least half the "jury" has to approve it before it can be sent off for an official vote to become law.

  4. Re:Collaboration Tracking? by ssyladin · · Score: 3, Funny

    Oh man - the "blame" tool just took on a whole new meaning!

  5. Lovely sentiment by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It's a nice sentiment, but absurdly naive, if you think that politics can be solved by applying programming-type *logic*. Hell, we can't even get rid of *office politics*, and you think you're going to take on the real thing? Some of the smartest programmers I know would likely get chewed up and spat out by actual politicians and media.

    So, here's the problem with such straightforward thinking:

    What if we could, for example, write a program which will show you at a glance, which politicians have the highest or lowest correlation of campaign contributions to supported policy?

    And? I'm not sure what that tells you. A campaign contribution does not indicate corruption. Let's say I'm a big believer in the same sorts of principles as the NRA, and the NRA donates $1000 to get me elected. Have I been bribed or bought by the NRA? Your answer might depend on whether or not you personally *agree with* what the NRA stands for. Let's change it to the EFF. I've been given $1000 by the EFF. In these cases, have the politicians been bought, or are they being supported because the organizations believe them to hold views which they agree with?

    There are all sorts of gray areas in politics as well. If you never compromise on your beliefs, but your principled stand either ends up blocking or stalling otherwise useful legislation, or gets you entirely excluded from the decision-making process, did you do the right thing? If you've got what you believe to be a bad bill in front of you, and your choices are to: a) oppose it, and have it pass as it, or b) engage and make it slightly less bad, then which is the better option?

    I'm not sure I have a real answer for what *should* be done, but I don't think it's helpful to pretend that technology can solve what are ultimately very *human* problems. Can an algorithm fix your personal relationships as well? Same principle, I think. I'm all for getting more technically-minded people in office simply because they'll have a better understanding of technology-related issues, but I'm not going to hold my breath that a more analytical sort of mind will make a better politician.

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    1. Re:Lovely sentiment by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 2

      What if politicians couldn't receive any money, at all ?

      Campaigns were financed npr style in a series of debates, all other campaigning illegal. Politicians paid a modest income and all other income illegal.

      Statesman, you say ?

      It's tempting to go that route, but that gives an awful lot of power and influence over whoever organizes those debates, and you get into a whole mess of who you invite, etc. And there's another tiny problem:

      Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

      You can make the argument that political speech is the most important speech to protect, and you can argue that part of political speech is promoting the candidate who best matches your beliefs. Should the government deny you the ability to send $20 to your candidate of choice so they can print flyers, signs, and create radio, TV, and internet ads, or organize a local rally or town hall? And if that's prohibited, should the government be able to prohibit an individual or organization from doing the same with their own finances? Can you even blog favorably about the candidate of your choice if you're paying for the hosting and traffic? You can start moving down a very uncomfortable slope, because I saw no exceptions listed in that text above that protects our speech and freedom of the press.

      It's sort of easy to say "no money", but what you're really doing then is denying entry to the field of anyone that doesn't already have a platform or name recognition, which may unintentionally cause even more favoritism toward the rich and powerful, as odd as that might seem. While you can point to cases of some corporation "buying the vote", you can also find examples of grass-roots campaigns that were largely made up of small, individual donations and grew to a national level. Quash one and you tend to get them both.

      Just some food for thought.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  6. Wow that's one load of arrogance by Crashmarik · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Just from the federalist papers #51

    " If men were angels, no government would be necessary. If angels were to govern men, neither external nor internal controls on government would be necessary. In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself. A dependence on the people is, no doubt, the primary control on the government; but experience has taught mankind the necessity of auxiliary precautions."

    Going to need omniscience to figure out what the functionality will be of changed laws, and a whole lot of arrogance to think the "Selfless" people doing this for the greater good won't be bought off faster and cheaper than any congress critter ever could

  7. Programmers not needed by J+Story · · Score: 2

    Programmers are taught to code for a specific, well-defined objective, whereas untrained ordinary folk think more along the lines of "do what I mean". Recently, however, through the ACA state funding case, decided that what is *said* is immaterial, and that the law should reflect what Congress obviously *meant*. In other words, "do what I mean". Given this, language is no longer important, and it is up to the high priests of the US Supreme Court to view the auguries to determine true meaning. In other words, thanks to the Supreme Court it is not programmers that are needed, but magicians.

    1. Re:Programmers not needed by NicBenjamin · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Dude, it's grammar, not a super-logical recursive function run by computers.

      In the ACA case the Judges ruled that a Federal exchange set up in lieu of a state exchange was the logical equivalent of an "exchange set up by the state." This is no more irrational then telling your houseguest he can borrow the diesel car or the gasoline motorbike as long as he tops up the diesel, and expecting him to know you meant he fill up the bike with gasoline.

      There's a reason multiple states chose to use the Federal Exchange, despite the fact that Conservative orthodoxy holds that made subsidies to their residents illegal.

    2. Re:Programmers not needed by nomadic · · Score: 2

      No, the Supreme Court did not decide what was said is immaterial. They made a perfectly logical analysis:

      1. The statute says the States can set up an exchange.

      2. If a State doesn't, the federal government can set up "such Exchange" for them. Note that it doesn't say set up "an Exchange," but "SUCH Exchange." The statute is pretty clearly stating by using "such" that any Exchange set up constitutes a State Exchange under the statute. What else would "such" mean in that context?

  8. The Solution is Subsidiarity by trout007 · · Score: 2

    If you are going to have democracy then you need to push things to the lowest level possible. Instead of 50% + 1 winning it needs to be more like 2 sigma or 95%. If you want to delegate a function to the national government then 95%+ of the people should agree. Same for the state, county, town, neighborhood, family, or individual. The system we have now insures conflict because you can force a slight majority to your will.

    --
    I love Jesus, except for his foreign policy.
    1. Re:The Solution is Subsidiarity by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      When was the last time you saw a poll where 95% of the country agreed on anything?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  9. Re:Democracy is a failed system. by Paleolibertarian · · Score: 2

    Public education is fucked. Case in point, recently a student was suspended for nibbling a toaster pastry into the shape of a gun. This is an example of the demagoguery of which you speak. There ARE good teachers however they cannot educate in an environment where such stupidity prevails.

  10. Man Has A Point by whodunit · · Score: 2

    Yes, the original article is (yet another) example of this current avant garde trend of characterizing everything as "code," but for once the underlying point has some merit: the entire institution of civil law is a structure, a system, designed to produce a desired result.

    Many of my Poli-Sci classes in college were taught by erudite gentlemen who helped us ponder the beautiful and challenging intricacies of political theory. The best professor I ever had was not one of those men. He was a self-described "crazy bearded anarchist" who's class on "government budgeting" focused mainly on pragmatic advice for city managers (how to catch people embezzling, how to navigate city council politics and how to cover your ass from witch-hunts) He understood democracies and the laws that shape them from the bottom-up; the end result. The end result a political system needs are viable candidates - which they must produce from a pool of mere flawed humans, with all their foibles.

    People are people - we lie and cheat all the time. The professor illustrated the point by asking us students if we ever lied - say, when we were talking to an attractive member of the opposite sex at the bar. Such things are endemic to human existence, so any system of people-selection hoping to produce a desired result must be made with the expectation that people will lie, cheat and game the system to the best of their ability. Such a system will ideally make the skills required to game it successfully synonymous with the skills to lead governments in an effective manner.

    This pragmatist approach flies in the face of the nigh-holy ethical apparatus people envision when they think of what government should be; thus our perpetual disgust with politicians that will always fall short of Plato's gilded City On The Hill. The constant and ever-wearisome lamentations about The State Of Politics Today misses that the system works. To use the United States as an example: Senators and Representatives spend a great deal of their time "pork-barreling," doing their best to get federal spending directed to their state (or passing laws that benefit private industries in their states.) To quote Hall's third law of politics: "Constituency drives out consistency (i.e., liberals defend military spending, and conservatives social spending in their own districts)." Politicians do this because they need votes to win elections, and hauling goodies to their home districts is a surefire way to win loyalty. The bitching about this awful low-minded thieving of Federal tax dollars continues nonstop, but nobody considers that the system is working as intended: those politicians are indeed representing their constituents interests.

    America is a unique example of a democratic republic created by people who had an opportunity to build a proper "system" from the ground-up, without having to accommodate any pre-existing legal structures. It's interesting then to note that Americans are a particularly litigious people; we don't detest a politician who lies so much as we detest one who breaks the rules. A system where people can flagrantly ignore the rules is as useless as a screen door on a submarine, for the same reasons. People will game and cheat the system as much as possible, sure - but their very existence guarantees that everyone has to cheat equally, starting from the same baseline. If nobody cared about the laws backlash against those who break them would render the system ineffectual. The strongly litigious nature of American culture is a massive reinforcement against that. The law is the system, and the system is not designed to enforce morality or ethics, but equality. The system is effectively synonymous with equality, and equality is the core concept enshrined by democracy. Americans tend to respect a politicians office inherently; it's been found many times that "President " consistently polls a few points higher than "" alone. This is also why people reacted so badly w

  11. Re:Collaboration Tracking? by davester666 · · Score: 2

    The people that can actually change the laws, namely, the people we have already elected, have a vested interest in making sure that the changes that would be necessary, will never get enacted.

    The ONLY possible 'reset' to the current system will involve a large number of guns.

    --
    Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!