Multiple Sources Confirm Windows 10 has Reached RTM

Ammalgam writes: Multiple sources are reporting that Microsoft has finally hit the release to manufacturing (RTM) milestone with Windows 10. A new build of Windows 10, number 10240, is available to Windows Insiders on both the fast and slow track. Microsoft has made no official statement yet.

Comments

I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[msobkow]

I've got the blank DVDs waiting to burn the .ISOs when it shows up on my system. I've no doubt there will be issues with some of the third party software I use, but those bumps will get ironed out in due time.

I thought about sticking with Windows 7, but I realized it's not every day you get something for "free" from Microsoft, so I better get it while the getting is good. :D

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[gweilo8888]

And soon you will realize how prophetic the air quotes around "free" really were. Good luck with that hot mess.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[gigaherz]

It is a known fact (or well, highly guessable at least), that Microsoft's goal has shifted from selling Operating Systems, to having a mostly free platform ("free" in this case implies the user has paid the "Microsoft Tax" at least once in the life of the device), as a means to make the Windows Store as accessible as possible.

All of the new features in Visual Studio 2015 regarding porting apps from Android/iOS, all the rumors that there may be Windows 10 phones "soon", etc. simply confirm this. Microsoft's goal is to make it as easy as possible to purchase things from the Store, so that they can get their cut of the sales.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

Meaning...what exactly?

You seem to be suggesting, despite injecting the word "prophetic" into the sentence without apparently knowing what it means, that Windows 10 won't be free as advertised. So put your cards on the table, then, what do you think they're going to do exactly? They're going to offer it for free and then send the leg-breakers around to people's houses in a year asking for protection money? They're going to spring a monthly fee rental on people after they've installed it, and when people complain and threaten to sue they're going to laugh maniacally?

What "hot mess" are you referring to? What information are you privy to that the rest of us aren't?

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Known Nutter]

all the rumors that there may be Windows 10 phones "soon", etc. simply confirm this.

Only in the twisted Bizarro World existence of Microsoft could rumors actually confirm something...

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[ErichTheRed]

"So put your cards on the table, then, what do you think they're going to do exactly? They're going to offer it for free and then send the leg-breakers around to people's houses in a year asking for protection money? They're going to spring a monthly fee rental on people after they've installed it, and when people complain and threaten to sue they're going to laugh maniacally?"

I don't think that's going to happen right away. I think they're going to use the next few years of rolling updates to get the average consumer used to the Windows as a Service model. Then, at least for the Home version, they're going to come out with Windows 365 when "Windows 11" is ready. The Pro and Enterprise versions will probably still be available in perpetual license format (They already committed to a long term stable (LTS) branch of 10 for companies.) The carrot for going to Windows 365 will be the availability of features. Look at Mac Office 2016 -- available now only if you have an Office 365 subscription, otherwise you need to wait till September to buy a licensed copy. The next step might be no more perpetual licensing.

I actually like Windows, but I'm not a fan of the constant rental fees for software. Adobe went that way with Creative Cloud, and people basically have no choice but to keep paying forever. AutoCAD is now rent-only as well.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[leathered]

2015 and still burning ISOs to DVD? There's no real reason not to boot from a USB stick nowadays.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

Other than 3rd party virus/security apps not working I really haven't had any problems. It upgraded without a problem, all my previously installed things work, the Xbox App and streaming is great if you have an Xbox One.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

I got my copy of 7 via MSDNAA so paid $0.00.

This "free" business smells funny.

I doubt it will be an ISO download, but an in place upgrade that MS is famous for screwing up.

It also seems like a way to cock-block Valve's efforts to move gamers(which are the last of the locked in home market) away from Windows.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

+1 Nailed it

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[PRMan]

Actually, I've been using the beta on my work laptop all along. I haven't had very many problems.

Early on, I had network, sound and HDMI problems, but those were ironed out a long time ago.

I don't use Edge or Cortana. Basically I just want it to be like a new version of Windows 7 and run all the same stuff better and faster with longer battery life. It does that very well at this point. I've only had 1 blue screen during the entire beta process. Windows 10 is very stable and a good OS. Much better than 8.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

2015 and still burning ISOs to DVD? There's no real reason not to boot from a USB stick nowadays.

Every blasted device now comes with a USB cable, so all the USB ports are occupied, even with an additional multiport hub. The DVD and Blu-Ray drives in the computer still work and are freely available during booting because you can't watch a movie then. And disks fit into those nice little racks you can buy, and are big enough to label legibly, unlike usb sticks that constantly get lost, chewed by the dog and have to be checked to see what's on them because they are too tiny to properly label. And, you might not want a big-ass iso taking up space that could be used for music, video, code, or other data that's more interesting than an ISO. So why the hell not burn a disc, smartguy?

Is there some reason people gleefully condemn useful technology as obsolete just because it predates some recent new tech? I don't get it. I still ride a bicycle despite the fact that I have an automobile. I still have a landline to the house (damned cheap at $20/month) because when the power goes out, my phone still works (and it's worked even during post-hurricane outages when even the cell network was having trouble). But I have a cellphone too. I've got several flatscreen HD tvs, but also an old "big cathode ray tube" television in the spare room, because it still works and looks decent enough to watch some crap show on cable when the other tvs are in use. I grill with charcoal though I have a propane grill too, because it fscking tastes better.

Some technology is genuinely obsolete, others retain their usefullness for a long time and can co-exist alongside newer but differently flawed similar technologies.

Dear smug futurists, please stop acting like a visitor from the future just to make yourselves look superior. It just makes you look like an ass.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[spire3661]

Why use optical? MS has all the tools to make bootable USB win 10 installs. https://www.microsoft.com/en-u...

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[maorb]

Yeah, it'll probably be an in-place upgrade. I'm gonna hope that it downloads an ISO during the update that can be captured to perform a clean install instead.

I would like to hear your justification for your last statement though. It's a topic I'm interested in but I haven't reached the same conclusion that you have. The only thing that sounds remotely threatening is that I heard they were expanding the Windows store to include non-universal apps (AKA traditional software), although I'm not sure if that's still the case. They're not blocking steam from being installed, restricting valve's freedom to add features, nor are they degrading its performance.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[spire3661]

Optical is slow, requires physical burning, its all around shit compared to where we are with solid state. A single optical burner is the size of two intel NUCs. The only true strength optical has left is that its read-only so it cant be corrupted/infected other than that, its as dead as 8 tracks. Btw, all VOIP installs by an ISP require having a UPS so your 'POTS is da best' argument is a bit moot. I agree on some of your points, but hating on optical has very valid reasons.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[ITRambo]

The .iso's will be available on the Windows Partner Portal on August 1st. Or so I was told in a Windows 10 webinar last week. To use them you need to upgrade your Windows 7 or 8.1 machines online, let Microsoft do its hardware based digital entitlement think where it stores your motherboard info on its servers. Then you can clean install from the .iso and Windows will be automatically activated as long as you have the same motherboard. Hard drives can be changed to SSD's etc, without a problem, they claim. Your old product key can even be reused if you want to revert back to the original OS after the 30 day rollback period, after which the Windows.old folder will be removed.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, that free smack that nice drug dealer gave me was great.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[nine-times]

I think there's another possibility: Windows will become permanently free (gratis) for home and non-commercial use.

I actually think this would be a really smart move for Microsoft at this time. Apple and Google have beaten them in the mobile area, and Apple has been making inroads on the desktop, even in businesses. Some businesses and schools are even opting for Chromebooks. Windows doesn't provide them with the sort of leverage and dominance that it used to.

As people move away from Windows, not only does Microsoft lose the revenue from licensing, they also start losing an advantage in selling their other products/services. If you run a business and all of your desktops are Macs or Chromebooks, then having a Windows domain isn't nearly as useful. If you're not running Outlook on Windows, then the value of Exchange Server is diminished. (They have Outlook for Mac, but it's not as good, and they have no Outlook for Linux) A lot of their expensive management tools and services become much more effective when your network is all Windows servers and Windows desktops/laptops.

In that sense, I could see an argument that Microsoft should give away Windows to consumers (and maybe even businesses) as a loss leader in order to sell various services, similar to the way that Apple provides OSX and the iLife/iWork software "free" as a way to sell their hardware. Personally, I think they should restructure Office 365 to include various management tools, like MDM, RMM, SSO, and remote control similar to LogMeIn. Turn it into a one-stop shop for IT departments to control all of their servers and desktops, with an eye toward eventually enabling IT to replace onsite domain controllers and file servers with a completely hosted cloud solution, where that would be desirable. Provide similar (but simplified) functionality for home users, including update management, cloud managed AV, find-my-phone (or laptop), remote control, cloud backup, etc.

I think that's the best move for long-term growth: give away Windows, come up with a well defined set of subscription services that provide useful features that integrate well with Windows, and price those subscriptions cheaply enough that IT departments and home users will say, "why not?", and then try to make money on volume.

Besides, making Windows free removes the biggest reason people have to stay on old versions of Windows, and old versions of Windows are more expensive for Microsoft to support. I think that's why Apple started making their OS upgrades free.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

And soon you will realize how prophetic the air quotes around "free" really were. Good luck with that hot mess.

Yeah yeah we've been waiting for 4 decades for Microsoft to finally spring that evil trap you people have been telling us they were preparing...still nothing.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[gigaherz]

I meant "confirm" as in "strengthen the suspicion". It's one of its definitions, even if not the most common one. Feel free to look it up.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[exomondo]

I think they're going to use the next few years of rolling updates to get the average consumer used to the Windows as a Service model. Then, at least for the Home version, they're going to come out with Windows 365 when "Windows 11" is ready. The Pro and Enterprise versions will probably still be available in perpetual license format (They already committed to a long term stable (LTS) branch of 10 for companies.) The carrot for going to Windows 365 will be the availability of features.

More likely they will just continue to charge an OEM license fee and tie the software license to the hardware then providing free upgrades for the life of the hardware like Apple does. A subscription model makes sense when it is "Software as a Service" but not when it is an operating system, that makes more sense to tie the license to the hardware.

I'm not a fan of the constant rental fees for software. Adobe went that way with Creative Cloud, and people basically have no choice but to keep paying forever. AutoCAD is now rent-only as well.

I prefer the perpetual licensing too but from a business accounting perspective subscription makes more sense, it also means you don't have different people using different versions since everybody who has Photoshop can have the latest version of Photoshop.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

Why not just copy to a few dozen floppy disks then. I find your lack of commitment to obsolete technology disturbing.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[KGIII]

It is obvious, and a joke, to point out your username at this point.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

BadUSB.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[leathered]

A few dozen?

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, that free smack that nice drug dealer gave me was great.

I think Microsoft is way beyond the point of needing to entice users to Windows, we have seen the huge failures of ME, Vista and 8 yet *still* that didnt drive people away from Windows. They aren't worried about losing users to other desktop platforms, they want to reduce maintenance and support costs by having everybody on the same version, this makes it a much more stable and consistent platform.

But as usual there is a group of tards who paint everything Microsoft does as a big conspiracy for world domination that never materializes. Maybe instead of spreading the ever more bizarre conspiracy theories the anti-Microsoft crowd should work at (or donate to) projects so that when Microsoft comes up with a failure of a product their users have a viable alternative (and no, ME, Vista and 8 have proven that Linux -- in its current state -- is *not* a viable alternative).

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[gweilo8888]

I'm referring to the hot mess of known facts about the "free" upgrade such as that Win10 will be serving as an advertising platform for Microsoft, will not allow you to opt out of or even briefly defer updates, as well as the fact that Microsoft has point-blank refused to clearly state that there will not be a subscription fee added at some point in the future (which can be taken to infer that there likely will be, at some point.)

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[drinkypoo]

Every blasted device now comes with a USB cable, so all the USB ports are occupied, even with an additional multiport hub.

My budget motherboard not only has about 8xUSB2 and 2xUSB3 actually on the back of it, but you can get it up to 12xUSB2 and 4xUSB3 without adding any expansion cards. How much crap have you got plugged in there, and why don't one or two USB2 hubs solve your port starvation problem?

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[rtb61]

So does that mean, Windows 8 pay for the privilege Beta is finally out of Beta, with it's really cool compulsory touch screen phone interface, that worked so really, really well on desktops without touch screens and taught all those users to pick any phone as long as they avoided the one with the LosePhone interface.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

"So put your cards on the table, then, what do you think they're going to do exactly? They're going to offer it for free and then send the leg-breakers around to people's houses in a year asking for protection money? They're going to spring a monthly fee rental on people after they've installed it, and when people complain and threaten to sue they're going to laugh maniacally?"

I don't think that's going to happen right away. I think they're going to use the next few years of rolling updates to get the average consumer used to the Windows as a Service model. Then, at least for the Home version, they're going to come out with Windows 365 when "Windows 11" is ready. The Pro and Enterprise versions will probably still be available in perpetual license format (They already committed to a long term stable (LTS) branch of 10 for companies.) The carrot for going to Windows 365 will be the availability of features. Look at Mac Office 2016 -- available now only if you have an Office 365 subscription, otherwise you need to wait till September to buy a licensed copy. The next step might be no more perpetual licensing.

I actually like Windows, but I'm not a fan of the constant rental fees for software. Adobe went that way with Creative Cloud, and people basically have no choice but to keep paying forever. AutoCAD is now rent-only as well.

Windows sucks so hard.

Yesterday (patch Tuesday) Windows Suckdate tried to shoot me a (bundled) "update to activation" (kb3058168) that actually set my lockscreen to the default Seattle space needle and put a watermark 9200 on my desktop upon reboot. It deactivated my OEM Windows. Looking in eightforums I noticed I was not the only one. Others called India to reactivate. One pulled his OEM key with a third party software, which is what I thought I would have to do but reverted to a restore point and hid the offending update. Windows Suckdate will not be causing me to call India CS at any time to reactivate, thanks and fuck you Bill.

Instead of merely okok click update windows... it all works, I had to go patch by patch and "hide" the activation "patch" that deactivates. Then I saw a flaw in a font driver (MS15-077), an update for Northern Michigan University APN database entry (KB3061421), etc. Retarded shit for me to even look at. Totally jacked my whole day up. It kept reverting changes on restart until I read each stupid update one by one. From now on I will just manually audit every available "suckdate" until game companies code/port EVERYTHING to Linux. Then Windows gets wiped. There are only a couple games I even keep Windows installed for now.

An update to Internet Explorer? Who in their right mind even uses that piece of shit browser? It it useful exactly ONCE. The default homescreen on Internet Explorer should literally be a link to https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/desktop/

The Windows "Store"? Garbage. Not one single useful "app" in it. Nothing. I have made zero purchases since Windows 8 came out. The apps are all super weak. I put the free FX2 Pinball on it initially and Skype. FX2 Pinball started getting hangs if you sat at the settings screen around 6 months after Windows 8 came out. Zen Pinball is way better on my PS4 and Android HTPC. In fact I think I will save disk space after this post and uninstall that shit like I did Adera. And Skype? I tried the Windows 8 store version, it sucked.. then recently Windows 8 users got email notices that it will be "desktop Skype" and we need to update it. OK. Uninstalled that shit. Skype works better on Android if I have to, but there are better video call software anyway. eg. Line

Metro/Modern UI sucks all the balls. Obviously people hated Windows 8 sucks. Just Google "Windows 8 sucks"

How retarded is this bullshit anyway https://www.google.com/#q=0x800F0922

Useless hex error codes that you can't even right click from event viewer you have to ctrl^c .. That is so retarded. Windows is death knell. H

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

as well as the fact that Microsoft has point-blank refused to clearly state that there will not be a subscription fee added at some point in the future

You don't seem to understand the meaning of the word fact, I would like to see where they "point-blank refused". It couldn't be clearer:

"There was some confusion, however, when Microsoft's Terry Myerson started talking about Windows 10 "as a service." Did that mean that after that first year of free availability, Windows 10 would cost an annual fee? I asked Myerson for clarification after the presentation, and he confirmed that there will be no additional fees attached to Windows 10, whenever you buy it."
http://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-windows-10-will-not-be-sold-as-a-subscription/

And also here:

"This is more than a one-time upgrade: once a Windows device is upgraded to Windows 10, we will continue to keep it current for the supported lifetime of the device – at no cost."
http://blogs.windows.com/bloggingwindows/2015/01/21/the-next-generation-of-windows-windows-10/

The above link also explains what they mean by Windows "as a service" - hint: it doesn't mean recurring subscription fees.

I'm fairly sure you will find some way to twist these words to mean something else, or come up with some question they have implicitly but not explicitly answered (and that you probably haven't asked). So maybe you should just forget Windows and move to Linux where you have all the control.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[gigaherz]

MSDNAA licenses are only valid while you are a student, and only for using as part of your education. You didn't "get" a copy for $0, they only lent you a license.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

What works great? KDE desktop on Linux.

I just love these rants from people so laughably disconnected from reality. History has proven definitively that the Linux desktop is a crappy operating system for the vast majority of users (Linux on the server and embedded devices is fantastic however), so much so that it almost seems like Microsoft has a running gag that once every few releases they put out a version so terrible it's like an experiment to see how bad Windows needs to be before people abandon it for Linux and so far Window ME, Windows Vista and Windows 8 have not been bad enough to increase desktop Linux's marketshare. Live CDs/USBs have been around for at least a decade so it isnt like people cant try it. You Linux advocates need to start accepting that desktop Linux, as it currently is, is crap and instead of ranting about how bad you think Windows is start making Linux a viable alternative.

So it is a nice fantasy land you live in there :P While Linux itself is brilliant and its application in the server and embedded space is fantastic along with corporate products based on it (Android for example) the consumer desktop distros demonstrably suck much worse than even the worst Windows version ever has hence the lack of churn from Windows to Linux.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[the_Bionic_lemming]

The reason it "smells funny" is because they are going the facebook route.

You had to give an email that you had to verify, and everyone that has verified that goes into your contacts list will be matched and mapped.

Your calender and other info will helpfully be uploaded as well as your pictures. Adobe Flash is also included into the system, but can't be removed.

If you try to remove groove music you'll get blocked. etc etc.

It's not your system anymore - It's microsoft's information harvester. No wonder it's free.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

so the official announcement (on the get windows 10 popup even) that says you can burn it to an iso isn't real huh?

and no serious, or even semi serious, or even casual gamer has really considered Steamux anything but a joke

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[MarioJE]

There will be an ISO, as explained in their FAQ page:

Can I reinstall Windows 10 on my computer after upgrading?

Yes. Once you’ve upgraded to Windows 10 using the free upgrade offer, you will be able to reinstall, including a clean install, on the same device. You won’t need to purchase Windows 10 or go back to your prior version of Windows and upgrade again.

You’ll also be able to create your own installation media like a USB drive or DVD, and use that to upgrade your device or reinstall after you’ve upgraded.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[msobkow]

I have DVDs; I'd have to buy a stick. And if I had a choice between buying either, you're talking about $0.50 vs $5.00 or more.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

Im not sure you could reach a much higher level of nonsensical idiocy. Aside from the start screen all your applications worked the same as before with Windows 8, it is fascinating the level of focus (on a tech site no less) that one little bit of the UI gets rather than the actual tangible benefits you get with the smaller resource footprint and improvements to the underlying system. For some reason you are just interested that all the glass and shininess went away. It doesnt affect your applications (which is what your operating system exists to run), you dont have to use it (boot to desktop) and if you didnt use the start menu you probably wont see it and if you did use the start menu there are plenty of replacement shells. I can see how this might trip up novice computer users or windows-centric users that cant comprehend a system that doesn't have their beloved "start menu" but I always assumed the audience for this site was the opposite of that.

Of every single program I run on Windows *none* of them have a "touch screen phone interface" on Windows 8, they are all just the same as Windows 7. Are you actually having difficulty here or are you just pretending you are having difficulty? I get it that people will act intentionally obtuse because they don't like Microsoft (or Apple or Google or whatever) but what is the point? Have you really got that much emotionally invested in not liking a company?

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

I just love these rants from people so laughably disconnected from reality.

You begin with lying about you love rants. You need to get that word in there so bad don't you. Love. Queue the emotions right? Come at me with direct counter points or shove your internet farts back up your ass.

I have used EVERY OS (except BeOS because it was weak as fuh) since before 8 bit days. Is this a disconnect from reality or are you a Microsoft hype person? I'm exceedingly OS literate. I can determine the quality of an Operating System with 100% accuracy.

History has proven definitively that the Linux desktop is a crappy operating system for the vast majority of users (Linux on the server and embedded devices is fantastic however), so much so that it almost seems like Microsoft has a running gag that once every few releases they put out a version so terrible it's like an experiment to see how bad Windows needs to be before people abandon it for Linux and so far Window ME, Windows Vista and Windows 8 have not been bad enough to increase desktop Linux's marketshare. Live CDs/USBs have been around for at least a decade so it isnt like people cant try it. You Linux advocates need to start accepting that desktop Linux, as it currently is, is crap and instead of ranting about how bad you think Windows is start making Linux a viable alternative.

So it is a nice fantasy land you live in there :P

Such a run-on rambling load of crap, I had to decide where to end the quotes. You are obviously interested in the future of Microsoft. Market share market share market share. Microsoft played on the gullibility of the public. The anti-trust lawsuit, the OEM PC's bundled with Windows, what about that? You think people really want to keep running a monolithic piece of shit OS or do they just keep using it because it's already installed on their computer? You can multi-boot multiple operating systems at the same time. Microsoft tried to make it difficult for Linux (again) with secure boot. You still can do it. It takes about 10 minutes and you have the whole open source world available to you. With SSD speeds these days, it is nothing to switch out of Windows for your games and daily security holes to get into a Linux with KDE and have a nice day. Switch back and forth it is simple. Why isn't it like that? Microsoft fears Linux quality. They don't have Linux quality. They would have to rewrite their whole OS architecture. It wouldn't be a registry based monolithic piece of universal remote shit if they did. But I am not talking fanasies here.

You would have people believe their computer is safer because Microsoft the anti-trust shyster company has some reputation? It's garbage. That is Microsoft's reputation. It sucks. It is garbage. It is a dying monopoly that was based on monetary incentives from day 1.

There is nothing you can't do in Linux. The literal only single reason to keep Windows installed is for games. That is it. When companies that put out decent games move fully to Linux, Windows becomes museum code.

You can multi-boot Linux with it for literally ZERO COST distrowatch.com. But you would tell people that's retarded, right? It costs nothing. So much better and with way more software available as soon as it is installed... for free. No cost. 10 minute install. Most people probably know somebody who can show them the first baby steps. If not, YouTube has endless how-to's for any and every thing. There is also nothing hard about man pages (manual pages) and the command "man" if you can read. Every language is supported -- all locales. Only the games keep people on Windows, that should end too because Windows is still shit architecture for games.

So why would you try to negate a good thing? Because YOU FUCKING KNOW it is better. The world KNOWS Linux is better. There is no foot in the door on servers, search engines, this website, Amazon, name it. Supercomputers all run Li

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

You are obviously interested in the future of Microsoft. Market share market share market share. Microsoft played on the gullibility of the public.

The operating system is a choice, Linux couldnt possibly be any easier or cheaper to install but people do not want it regardless of what spin you put on it.

The anti-trust lawsuit, the OEM PC's bundled with Windows, what about that?

The fact is companies have tried bundling OEM PCs with Linux and nobody wanted them.

You think people really want to keep running a monolithic piece of shit OS or do they just keep using it because it's already installed on their computer?

Linux is equally monolithic, it is no better than Windows which is why people choose not to use it and chose not to buy systems with it preloaded.

You can multi-boot multiple operating systems at the same time. Microsoft tried to make it difficult for Linux (again) with secure boot. You still can do it. It takes about 10 minutes and you have the whole open source world available to you.

Yes yes we all know that.

Microsoft fears Linux quality. They don't have Linux quality.

Desktop Linux quality is absolute rubbish, so much so that Microsoft isnt even scared to allow its biggest business cash cow (MS Office) to run on Linux, you can run Office 365 on Linux no problem if you want and Microsoft has no problem with you doing that. You are trying to create an enemy where none exists to excuse the shitful quality of desktop Linux.

You can multi-boot Linux with it for literally ZERO COST distrowatch.com. But you would tell people that's retarded, right? It costs nothing. So much better and with way more software available as soon as it is installed... for free. No cost. 10 minute install. Most people probably know somebody who can show them the first baby steps. If not, YouTube has endless how-to's for any and every thing. There is also nothing hard about man pages (manual pages) and the command "man" if you can read. Every language is supported -- all locales.

Right, you couldnt be more correct. It really could not be easier yet people do not want Linux on their desktop. Make desktop Linux good and then people will use it. There is no barrier to entry except that desktop Linux is crap.

The world KNOWS Linux is better.

And despite your exhaustive explanation of how easy it is to install people still choose even the worst Windows releases over Linux.

I totally agree with you that Windows is shit but desktop Linux is shitter and that is why nobody uses it on the desktop. In your fit of rage you failed to notice that I already said how good it is on server and embedded, it's just the desktop distros that are complete garbage.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[NetCow]

MSDNAA licenses are only valid while you are a student, and only for using as part of your education.

Sorry, but that's patently untrue. You can no longer acquire or activate new licenses, but your existing licensed installations definitely remain valid after you're no longer a student (see the license agreement paragraph 2a "End of Student Status". To quote from there:

b. End of Student Status. The DreamSpark Direct Subscription is a special offering for students. Once you no longer qualify for the DreamSpark Direct Subscription (due to graduation or otherwise no longer meeting the definition of "you" above), your DreamSpark Direct Subscription will terminate; however, you may continue to use the software you obtained prior to termination of your student status subject to the terms of this agreement.

Of course, the catch is that you're not allowed to use the software for commercial or entertainment purposes but only to "further your education" (i.e., to enlarge Microsoft's mindshare)--but that's the premise of the license in the first place, even while you're a student.

You didn't "get" a copy for $0, they only lent you a license.

Sadly, that's how the proprietary software business has been working for years at this point, by tying the base to online services.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[gl4ss]

of course they're going to include traditional windows software in the store.

and it's not really a rumor, since it's been their operating motivation since launching windows 8. of course they went it with ass backwards route, the software they _wanted_ to go into the store _couldn't_ go into the store in the first place(traditional sw).

also why do you think adobe went with a subscription model about the time of windows 8 release? it was a contingency plan and a middle finger to microsoft which was hoping to start getting 30% cuts of 1000$ softwares.

anyways, there will be an iso to download. it's the product key you care about getting anyways.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

>The operating system is a choice, Linux couldnt possibly be any easier or cheaper to install but people do not want it regardless of what spin you put on it.

You dipshit. You have zero clues.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_adoption
eg. In March 2014 Ubuntu claimed 22,000,000 users
And Ubuntu is one of the 2 I wouldn't use. 22 million last year. JUST UBUNTU. For sure one of the two I do not like. Still 22 million people. Umm that's a lot? Last year.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_share_of_operating_systems

1) Android is Linux.

eg. from above link
As of June 2013 the operating systems used on the world's top 500 supercomputers were:[79]
OS Number Share
Linux 476 95.2%
AIX 15 3%
Hybrid Unix/Linux 4 0.8%
Windows HPC 3 0.6%
Other Unix 2 0.4%

(not bothering to check but I don't think any Windows at all on any supercomputer. why? Windows is superweak)

https://www.linux.com/news/software/applications/810295-the-top-11-best-linux-distros-for-2015

eg. from above link
Best desktop distro: openSUSE

I agree with that point in that article fully. I just now glanced at it. It's the same story for a decade already. I already know. openSUSE is absolutely great. It was one of my top 3 when it was just SuSE, way before Novell first bought it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Linux_adopters
eg. /. you are on right now.
>>

EVERY INSTALL OF LINUX IS MULTI-USER SERVER CAPABLE NOT HOME EDITION AND "PRO" EDITION.

Now take your retarded Windows OS ass and do some searching:
https://www.google.com/#q=windows+sucks

Figure out your own queries on Google (YES IT IS LINUX TOO) to find out which is more secure, Linux or Windows.

Why did you even speak, idiot?

>Linux is equally monolithic, it is no better than Windows which is why people choose not to use it and chose not to buy systems with it preloaded.

No it is not equally monolithic. Not only is it modular but you can compile your kernels locally and modify anything you want to. Try that with closed source Windows. Now go back up and look again the things you were already wrong at. How many people use Linux? Not what you said, now is it?

>Yes yes we all know that.

Douche. Don't act like you are speaking for "we". And no need to yes to your own yes. Speak for yourself. Say it one time, and be right. Not everybody knows how easy it is to install Linux. Why? Because assholes like you lie and say its some ancient shit that Linux is too hard. Reality.. Mac OSX is BSD. Plain and simple, a fork of BSD. It comes with a bash shell. If you can navigate a Mac, you can navigate Linux. It is very similar. You can theme KDE to look and function like a Mac OSX if you want to as well. I prefer KDE's layout but it is customizable. You will never shell out another $5 to bring back a start button with third party software. Microsoft trips out hard on lots of bonehead decisions. They have since 3.1 as a matter of fact.

You have a penchant for being wrong while simultaneously acting like you think you're smart.

>Desktop Linux quality is absolute rubbish, so much so that Microsoft isnt even scared to allow its biggest business cash cow (MS Office) to run on Linux, you can run Office 365 on Linux no problem if you want and Microsoft has no problem with you doing that. You are trying to create an enemy where none exists to excuse the shitful quality of desktop Linux.

No. Again, you are wrong. Desktop Linux is AWESOME. 180 polar opposite of what you said. I am not surprised. Those servers you acknowledge are so awesome (the Linux ones, you know the ones that run the world right now including this website). Believe it or not they do require human interaction. They use DE's and terminal windows as well. I don't hear Google bitching about Linux. I don't hear Amazon bitching about Linux. (ETC) Seems like they are jus

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[AmiMoJo]

They are already giving Windows away on devices with screens under 13". There are now a lot of cheap tablets running Windows available, where previously there was only Android in the low cost market. Android and to an extent Chrome OS is basically making charging for an OS look ridiculous.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[AmiMoJo]

Every blasted device now comes with a USB cable, so all the USB ports are occupied, even with an additional multiport hub.

You know you can unplug them, right? Or add more hubs?

It's actually a good idea to unplug some devices while doing the OS install. Cuts down on confusion so you don't accidentally select a USB drive as the target, and gives you time to install drivers in an orderly manner instead of having Windows scramble to find them all at first boot.

Besides, even my tower system doesn't have an optical drive any more, I use USB for that. I realized that I was using it about once a year, so swapped it for a hot-plug SATA bay.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

History has proven definitively that the Linux desktop is a crappy operating system for the vast majority of users

What reality are you living in?

Over here, the group of people who don't want Linux are the people who have never tried it. Ask them what problems they have with Linux, and they will tell you that they heard something from the friend of a friend a long time ago.

My father, for example, told me that the wife of his boss had used Linux in a previous job, and was not happy about the experience. Knowing that said wife was the book keeper of my fathers boss' company, I asked him when that previous job would have been. Somewhere before 1985, when they started their own company. Linux didn't even exist back then.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Jack Griffin]

Every blasted device now comes with a USB cable, so all the USB ports are occupied,

How many devices do you have? And which ones can't you unplug temporarily while installing your OS? My cheapo PC has 8 USB ports, of which I use 1 for my wifi dongle for my keyboard and mouse. My printer is also wifi and everything USB is only connected as needed.

Dear smug futurists.

Future? This relatively common technology that is already over a decade old.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

These days, I keep a few $3 1GB USB sticks around just for booting from; I find a lot of the server boards won't boot from the newer, larger drives. So even though I could get 8GB+ for the same cost, I still get a few 1GBs every once in a while. And then they get given away, and I have to buy more.
But I do still burn minimal CentOS CDs, for old times sake.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[omnichad]

Adobe went that way with Creative Cloud, and people basically have no choice but to keep paying forever.

Considering that the ancient Photoshop 7 is still better than most alternatives, I bought CS5.5 and am holding off as long as I possibly can. If I can make it the rest of my life without upgrading, I will be perfectly capable. They haven't added much, really. Even screenshots from 1988 are recognizable to today's users.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[omnichad]

if you sat at the settings screen around 6 months

I've heard of choice paralysis, but are there really that many options? This sounds a little extreme.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[omnichad]

Since a lot of computers can't EFI boot off of DVD, and Windows won't EFI install on a computer if the install media didn't EFI boot from, you're risking a slower boot time by being forced to use BIOS emulation on every boot.

It's annoying, but it's an argument that you probably should do Windows installs via USB.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, so you're a deeply insecure little man....

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

if you sat at the settings screen around 6 months

I've heard of choice paralysis, but are there really that many options? This sounds a little extreme.

Let me rephrase it for those that expect the Queen's English on a /. post. Taking me out of context and getting modded up for it is ridiculous.

6 months after Windows 8 came out...

ok you got that right...

Zen Pinball had an update...

stay with me... disregard the goldfish...

Then after that update, if you started the game it would freeze if you didn't immediately start the game. If you hesitated for more than like 5 seconds, it would freeze on the settings screen. Others had the same problem.

Feel free to search for it.
http://forum.zenstudios.com/forumdisplay.php?40-Pinball-FX2%99-Windows-8

The point you may have missed is that all of the apps in Windows 8 store suck. People hated Windows 8 and the so-called metro interface. Why was it there? For that money. How did it pan out? I never bought a single thing. I certainly will never need anything from it, ever. Nothing in the Windows "store" is useful at all, ESPECIALLY if you use Linux. When you use Linux, the entirety of Windows itself is not useful at all... with one exception categorically: a few PC games.

Windows is death knell.

Windows is still relevant on the desktop if you want to run "a couple PC games". Maybe emotionally the loss of all the money you spent on third party Windows software feels like a trap? But-but-but all my software... Keep it. Use it too. Eventually you will probably like the Linux versions of every functionality better. eg. Firefox came from *nix world. Compare it to Internet Exploder. Windows Media Player? garbage. VLC from *nix world is way better.

But people who make a living with Microsoft shitwarez are scared to lose it right? Take your bad ass skills and use the OS that _i_already_mentioned_who_ use.

You can use Linux AND Microsoft. YES, you can have BOTH even if it ends up destroying Microsoft's OS market. Windows is ready for old computer museums. I don't care if it stays or if it goes, it is just as useless in either circumstance. All consumers need are all the PC games compiled for Linux and it's format c:\ baby. PS4 (BSD Kernel) already makes Xbox 1 look stupid. Steam has LInux game support already.

But there are a couple PC games that you may want to keep Windows around for, for a very little while longer.

Other than A COUPLE games, Windows is shit. Done. I don't want your 365 subscriptions or your registry DWORD: 1 or your KB123456 or error 0x____ .. none of it. Don't send me updates that nag me to update to the next steaming pile either. Windows Event Viewer is shit. Name it. It sucks. Windows is just a poor monolithic architecture, and also closed source. Governments get it. NASA gets it. Plebs may be thick in the head.

Linux is smarter. Why do you think the organizations I used as examples above use it? NASA is stupid? Google? Amazon? There is probably a large list someplace. netcraft, etc. Go look. Supercomputers run on Linux... but why. top500.org

How can somebody illustrate a complete fact set that are all true and accurate yet some of you will respond with asinine remarks. Nobody needs proof that somebody is stupid.

If you are smart and like computing then you go to distrowatch.com and pick one and install it. Google search for multi boot or just run it in a virtual machine. Have an old PC just sitting around? Play with it. Bring it back to life. It costs nothing. Uninstall it if you don't like it. Fact is: people do and will like it.

So anybody else mad because they're afraid the truth will be the end of Windows?

[welcomes new penguin overlords]

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[bjwest]

Btw, all VOIP installs by an ISP require having a UPS so your 'POTS is da best' argument is a bit moot. I agree on some of your points, but hating on optical has very valid reasons.

POTS phones, as well as DSL, will keep working indefinitely. Good luck with that VOIP call when your UPS battery dies.

Also, I didn't get a UPS with my VOIP setup.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Anonymous Coward]

Does it still have animated, click-bait yet undescriptive, bandwidth-using icons on the default desktop screen and/or start menu? Then it's not a good OS. It's a fucking advertisement.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[dwillden]

Most Laptops these days have only 3 USB ports, many if not most also have an optical drive.
Just saying. Not everybody is using a desktop.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[toddestan]

Most new laptops now are omitting the optical drive. It's getting to the point where if you require an optical drive your options are starting to look pretty limited, especially since the remaining models with optical drives tend to be the larger workstation/desktop replacement models. This is understandable, as I rarely use an optical drive anymore. On the other hand, the lack of USB ports is baffling.

Re:I've got the DVDs waiting to burn .ISOs

[Jack Griffin]

I can't remember the last time I used an optical drive, at least 10 years ago for any regular data, and slightly less than that for OS installs. Booting from USB became easy about 6 or 7 years ago. I've had my most recent PC over 5 years ago, it has no Optical drive and I've never missed it.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[theheadlessrabbit]

Historically, Windows isn't stable until about the 2nd service pack, years after it's official release.

Funny

[ArcadeMan]

It's Windows 10 and the build number for the RTM is exactly 1024 * 10, and it takes 10 bits to reach 1024.

Re:Funny

[nmb3000]

It's Windows 10 and the build number for the RTM is exactly 1024 * 10, and it takes 10 bits to reach 1024.

It's something of a tradition for Windows releases to have cute build numbers.

Windows 95: 950
Windows 98: 1,998
Windows 98 SE: 2,222
Windows ME: 3,000
Windows 2000: 2195 (the NT folks tried to stay boring)
Windows XP: 2,600
Windows Vista: 6000
Windows 7: 7,600
Windows 8: 9,200 (they wanted it to be 8,888, but that is not a multiple of 16).

Windows 10 being 10240 is certainly cute, being 10 * 2^10.

But I wouldn't get too worked up over it. As Raymond says:

There’s not much point in trying to “conserve” build numbers. They’re just numbers. They don’t cost anything. The important thing is that no two builds are given the same build number.

Re:Funny

[Just Some Guy]

And 10240 = 10100000000000, which has 12 zeros, and 1+2=3. Half Life 3 confirmed.

Re:Funny

[epyT-R]

Not quite. Until a few years ago, most devs used major numbers to suggest major changes that break compatibility, minor numbers to suggest additions that do not break compatibility, and pico numbers to suggest bug or security fixes. This is still very useful, but like a lot of society, devs are going full retard now.

Re:Funny

[crashumbc]

Shush with your logic and consistency!

  This about Meta-data! tagging, web 2.0 and more gizmo terms! they well just put the numbers in the cloud!

Re:Funny

[nmb3000]

Oh, I agree if we're talking about some kind of major.minor.revision version number system. Stuff like Firefox doing just integer version numbers makes the version pretty useless for anything other than putting on your webpage in a big font size.

The Windows thing is just build number, which generally is completely meaningless when it comes to compatibility checks or that kind of thing.

Re:Funny

[Dog-Cow]

Except build numbers have absolutely nothing to do with any of that. In most IDEs, the build number is just a count of the number of times you hit the build button. Any particularly value is entirely meaningless on its own.

In other words: devs may be going retard, but you hit moron shortly after birth.

Re:Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

That's still how Mozilla does it.

Minor version number changes: A few bugs were fixed, though not any of the important ones.

Major version number changes: Add-ons stop working, the UI is moved around, indispensable features removed, and stuff nobody wants is welded into the browser.

"no official statement"

[benjymous]

Other than the post on the official Windows blog, I guess

http://blogs.windows.com/blogg...

Although that doesn't say this is the RTM, just that "this build is one step closer to what customers will start to receive on 7/29"

Re:"no official statement"

[Anonymous Coward]

http://whois.domaintools.com/windows.com would give Microsoft the control. So Microsoft's legal team would take control just for trademark reasons if it wasn't.

Re:"no official statement"

[Anonymous Psychopath]

Other than the post on the official Windows blog, I guess

http://blogs.windows.com/blogg...

Although that doesn't say this is the RTM, just that "this build is one step closer to what customers will start to receive on 7/29"

Can you prove that Microsoft even runs that site?

It's a reasonable assumption that windows.com, which uses msft.net nameservers, which CAN be proven to belong to Microsoft, legitimately belongs to Microsoft.

Re:"no official statement"

[Anonymous Coward]

How about being linked from https://blogs.microsoft.com (scroll to the bottom)

This blog has had all the information about the Windows Insider Program right from the start, so the only way that blog post is fake is if the whole existence of Windows 10 is fake.

Re:"no official statement"

[Anonymous Coward]

According to the blog the watermark is gone and you can only download if you're signed in with a Microsoft Account. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the actual RTM release. It would be an awesome way to get it out to their beta testers first and ease the load on July 29 for everyone else who signed up.

Re:"no official statement"

[Anonymous Coward]

I could not find any Windows 10240 ISO on the insider page.

links to older builds are gone

Typical, problem solved!

Why should we care, vote down this story.

[Anonymous Coward]

Has all the confusion about who would qualify for free Windows 10 been on purpose? This has certainly given MS free publicity.
Lets vote down this story to reflect its true relevance.

Re:Why should we care, vote down this story.

[Anonymous Psychopath]

Has all the confusion about who would qualify for free Windows 10 been on purpose? This has certainly given MS free publicity.
Lets vote down this story to reflect its true relevance.

I have to believe people are being deliberately obtuse about upgrade eligibility. It's just not that difficult.

Re:Why should we care, vote down this story.

[Coren22]

If it is all so simple, here are questions for you than. I have a domain at home, how do I go about getting my free copy of Windows 10? How does one reinstall this copy of Windows 10 so that it isn't a buggy upgrade install? I have Windows 7 Ultimate (OEM as I built the computer from parts), so it isn't like I am caught in the hole of Windows 7 Enterprise.

Re:Why should we care, vote down this story.

[Anonymous Psychopath]

If it is all so simple, here are questions for you than. I have a domain at home, how do I go about getting my free copy of Windows 10? How does one reinstall this copy of Windows 10 so that it isn't a buggy upgrade install? I have Windows 7 Ultimate (OEM as I built the computer from parts), so it isn't like I am caught in the hole of Windows 7 Enterprise.

Those aren't eligibility questions, those are process questions. The eligibility is very simple.

Anyone who is on either Windows 7 or Windows 8.1 will be entitled to a free (as in beer) upgrade to Windows 10 during the first year of the Windows 10 launch. The exclusions to that offer are for Windows 7/8/8.1 Enterprise and Windows RT/RT 8.1. The licenses for the upgraded systems are permanent and perpetual.

Details are in the footnote at the bottom of https://www.microsoft.com/en-u....

Re:Why should we care, vote down this story.

[Anonymous Coward]

http://lmgtfy.com/?q=windows+1...

Re:Why should we care, vote down this story.

[Coren22]

A little more research on this showed me this thread:

http://answers.microsoft.com/e...

So, there are two options, disjoin from domain and run the upgrade, or wait for the ISO and run the upgrade then. All Enterprise licenses however will need to get new licenses through their software assurance, which is normal for larger IT groups.

I know

[The Real Dr John]

Windows. Love it or hate it, it's there. I only use it on desktops, so I don't see Microsoft's attempt to make an every-device OS as a plus. I use Windows 7 because it was designed for desktops. Why would anyone want to switch over to Microsoft's app based Windows 10? Does anyone here have any substantive reasons other than small differences in boot time or DirectX 12 support, that make the upgrade useful for desktop users with Windows 7? I'm curious.

Re:I know

[Stormwatch]

Why would anyone want to switch over to Microsoft's app based Windows 10?

App means application software. AutoCAD and Angry Birds are equally apps.

Re:I know

[PRMan]

Speed. Battery life. DirectX12. 3 more years of bug-fix support.

That's about it for me. Windows 10 UI is not as good as Windows 7 for desktops. But it's good enough to make it worth it for the reasons listed above.

Re:I know

[WheezyJoe]

Not me. Been beta-testing the preview builds for the last bunch of months, and I'm honestly unhappy to say there's no must-have, great, or even kinda-cool feature in 10 that compels me to upgrade from 7 (other than the stick-it-to-ya of planned obsolescence).

OTOH, there's a lot in Windows 10 that's just irritating. The lack of customizability in the UI (if you don't like the flat, playskool look, you're SOL). The yanking out of some of the fun time-wasting games (some have been replaced with "modern" versions for... what exactly? to acclimate users to the "modern" look? to force users to browse through the Store to find Minesweeper?). The unpolished split between the "modern" Settings app and the Control Panel for getting real work done. The insistence that you sign into a Microsoft account. The click-bait-laden live-tiles. The defaults to the use of ugly, too-big, less-capable "modern" apps for basic functions like PDF viewing, photo viewing, or even a simple calculator.

If I think about it,if I move from 7 because 7 is at EOL, I am going to spend my first bunch of hours shutting off everything that 10 offers. I would ditch Edge/Project Spartan for Chrome, first thing. Dull down the colors any way I can. Install classic-shell. Shut off the click-bait live-tiles from aggravating my ADHD with TMZ OMG bullcrap. Un-modernize everything by installing and making default 7-versions of the calculator, a PDF viewer, minesweeper, VLC, rainmeter, WinAero Tweaker, Picassa, etc. And then probably go looking for some skinning hacks, if any work on 10, because I can't stand that awful playskool look.

In other words, spend hours undoing everything that makes 10 look and act like 10. That's a helluva lot of wasted time for what's supposed to be an "upgrade". And for what? Touch? I don't use touch. DirectX 12? I don't game enough AAA titles to know the difference. The only reason I see to go to 10 is because Microsoft plans on pulling the plug on 7. Eventually. Or maybe if 10 handles scaling properly on ultra-high-res screens. Eventually.

If Windows to you is merely a platform from which to launch Steam and your favorite full-screen game(s), you probably have nothing to lose with 10. If you have a Surface, the "modern" apps make some sense (although when I tried them, Android and iOS equivalents are more polished and work better). But if you actually have to get real work done on the desktop like you do in 7 every day, 10 don't offer not one damn thing for the trouble. None that I can tell, anyway.

Re:I know

[exomondo]

Why would anyone want to switch over to Microsoft's app based Windows 10?

Every operating system is "app based" that is the whole point of an operating system. An operating system that doesn't run apps (also known as applications or programs) is pretty useless.

Does anyone here have any substantive reasons other than small differences in boot time or DirectX 12 support, that make the upgrade useful for desktop users with Windows 7? I'm curious.

Lower resource usage, improved battery life on mobile devices, better support for high dpi displays, continuum (if you have a convertible device), etc. There's quite a few but really if you're happy with your current system then why change? It's the same whether you're using Windows, Linux or OS X.

Re:I know

[The Real Dr John]

That is my impression as well. They are trying to make it palatable to desktop users, including the entire corporate and government sectors who are still using it, but it is just an app-based OS for mobile devices that can still run Windows programs. They hope to drive lots of business to their app store by giving 10 away for free. But for desktop Win7 users it seems like a big, irritating downgrade.

Re:I know

[Mashiki]

If you're a gamer, DX12 is more then enough of a reason to upgrade. Especially with the massive API changes that are coming down the pipe for it. There are a lot of non-AAA games that use DX11 or mantle now, that will be doubly so for DX12 which will make cross-platform support for 'nix and macs even easier.

Re:I know

[qubezz]

Well, I am pretty sickened by the constant data connections between Windows 10 and Microsoft. Running in a VM, the network activity light and CPU load is constant. Granted some of this is the keylogger-level telemetry that they are gathering, but my OS should never start initiating network connections without my permission; this OS wants to automatically update itself and any apps you have installed (can't be turned off unless you just kill the services), comes with dozens of scheduled tasks to do so, and encourages you to store your data, contacts, emails, etc in their apps without clearly stating that it is all being duplicated on Microsoft servers.

Annoyance #2, actually dealbreaker, is how they've made the OS almost broken if you don't use a Microsoft account login. This means that your computer's login is the same password as your email address, and is out of your control. Microsoft or anyone pressuring them can get into your (their) computer since they control the password. It is way to easy for SOHO users looking for time-wasters in the Microsoft store to convert the local account into their own user login and lock out everybody including admin. The email address of the logon is proudly displayed on the logon screen to unauthenticated users, with no way to turn this off.

Re:I know

[spire3661]

The difference between an app and application is who controls the executable. You or MS?

Re:I know

[exomondo]

this OS wants to automatically update itself and any apps you have installed (can't be turned off unless you just kill the services)

Surely you understand that for most users the automatic patching and updating of the system and programs is a good thing, they don't have to worry about computer maintenance. And as you say the power users can kill the services if they really want to do things manually. OS X has gone through a similar process of taking maintenance tasks or traditional mundane workflow tasks and automating them (like the auto save stuff) and this confuses the people who are just used to doing this on a regular basis but is better for those who don't want to worry about it.

A computer - and the operating system - is a tool to do a job, when the maintenance of that tool becomes implicit and automatic that is good for most users and power users can circumvent that default behavior if they feel they need to.

Annoyance #2, actually dealbreaker, is how they've made the OS almost broken if you don't use a Microsoft account login.

I'm using it without a Microsoft account login ... aside from syncing my data with an account I don't have which is precisely why I didn't put one in to begin with I haven't noticed anything "broken". What doesn't work without a Microsoft account?

Re:I know

[exomondo]

The difference between an app and application is who controls the executable. You or MS?

"app" is just short for "application", they are the same thing. Windows 10 can run the same applications (apps, applications, programs, whatever you want to call them) that previous versions did. I'm not sure what you mean by "who controls it" because the computer user controls it by executing it in a specific environment and/or with input. The app (or application) does whatever the author programs it to do, if that's me then it does what I tell it, if it's Microsoft then it has whatever capabilities they put in it, if it's some other 3rd party then it has whatever capabilities they put in it.

Re:I know

[AmiMoJo]

There are a few good reasons to upgrade. Multiple desktops are nice, and long overdue. High DPI support with per-monitor settings was available in 8.1, but is much better in 10. I want to get a second 4k monitor but keep my existing 2k one.

Again, Windows 8.1 has OPAL v2 (also called eDrive) support, but it's better in 10 and a good reason to upgrade from 7. Most modern SSDs encrypt the data before writing it to flash memory, and OPAL v2 lets you set your own key for this. So you get full drive encryption with zero performance/battery hit, integrated with BitLocker. It may not be NSA-proof, but it's certainly cop/border security proof.

I am going to spend my first bunch of hours shutting off everything that 10 offers. I would ditch Edge/Project Spartan for Chrome, first thing. Dull down the colors any way I can. Install classic-shell. Shut off the click-bait live-tiles from aggravating my ADHD with TMZ OMG bullcrap. Un-modernize everything by installing and making default 7-versions of the calculator, a PDF viewer, minesweeper, VLC, rainmeter, WinAero Tweaker, Picassa, etc. And then probably go looking for some skinning hacks, if any work on 10, because I can't stand that awful playskool look.

How is that any different from Windows 7? When installing Windows 7 you need to install Chrome, presumably turn off the visual effects since you seem to hate those, install classic shell for a usable start menu, disable crap like Media Centre (if you didn't install the N version), install a PDF viewer, a decent media player, rainmeter, Picasa etc.

And "playskool" look? You prefer the ridiculous UI disaster of Vista, where important UI elements are lost in a sea of blurred crap because it was cool to make the whole god-damned window semi-transparent? Really, Windows 10 may not be pretty, but it's mostly functional and certainly no worse than Vista/7.

Re:I know

[WheezyJoe]

How is that any different from Windows 7? When installing Windows 7 you need to install Chrome, presumably turn off the visual effects since you seem to hate those, install classic shell for a usable start menu, disable crap like Media Centre (if you didn't install the N version), install a PDF viewer, a decent media player, rainmeter, Picasa etc.

You make a good point. Except for the visual effects, which I kinda like, all the things above apply to 7 as well. BUT... I've already done the work and now my 7 setup is the way I like. 10 means I have to do it all over again, and for little or nothing in return. High DPI support is something that might benefit me in the future (or not, depending on whether the app I'm using cooperates), and I don't care much about Bitlocker. OTOH, the biggest deal with Windows 10 is the whole "modern" app and Store thing, which I truly don't want or care about. If Edge, Cortana, or even the File Explorer offered something that was new and better (even the Mac now features Tabs in the Finder, and a desktop macro scripting tool (AppleScript) for automating repetitive tasks), it might mean something. But apps for tablets and phones I'm never going to buy... OneDrive when I'm already using Dropbox... 10 is a lateral move at best, that forces me to start over and sign in to a Microsoft account when I never had to before.

And "playskool" look? You prefer the ridiculous UI disaster of Vista, where important UI elements are lost in a sea of blurred crap because it was cool to make the whole god-damned window semi-transparent? Really, Windows 10 may not be pretty, but it's mostly functional and certainly no worse than Vista/7.

The blurred look in 7 can be tamed with the preferences right out of the box. Set the contrast, intensity, and colors to something neutral, and the chrome gets out of the way and lets you focus on your work. All I really want is good contrast between focus and non-focus windows (I rely on a hack to enable focus-follow-mouse, X11 style, which I admit is a little insane) and some drop-shadow so I can clearly distinguish one window from another because I have a lot on the screen at once. And 7 still has that "Advanced appearance settings..." in the "Window Color and Appearance" control-panel for fine-tuning things like the text-highlight color. The latter was removed with the release of 8, and has never re-appeared.

The only way 10 offers any amount of control over the look-and-feel is to drop into that god-awful throwaway "high contrast mode", where you might as well be back in the 90's with a CGA card.

If Windows 10 offered the option of mucking around with Aero, or the option of changing desktop widgets by color and size, the kind of thing Linux desktops have in abundance... but it doesn't. Shit. I remember Windows 95 with 95-plus could be completely skinned with Halloween or Fishtank themes, complete with funky sounds. OS X doesn't give much choice, but at least it's gun-metal grey and easy to forget about.

And the most frustrating thing about 10 is what little customizations you can make often don't apply to "modern" apps - they largely play by their own rules. Likewise, "modern" features like global spell-check don't work in Win32 apps. On the Mac, spell-check is universal. Windows 10, not so much. There's a Setting for it, but fire up Wordpad and type something, nothing.

Verdict, not a finished product, designers not focusing on the things I care about.

I'll probably upgrade within a year for the same reasons as everyone else: they're pulling the plug on Windows 7 and security patches are important. At least it's free. But the OP had asked if there was some compelling reason to upgrade, some killer gotta-have-it, holy-shit this-is-great show-your-Momma kinda thing. Windows 7 was holy-shit better than XP, easy choice unless there was some old app that just wouldn't run. Windows 10? Maybe eventually, when the only large monitors being sold are high-DPI.

Re:I know

[CaseCrash]

Annoyance #2, actually dealbreaker, is how they've made the OS almost broken if you don't use a Microsoft account login. This means that your computer's login is the same password as your email address, and is out of your control. Microsoft or anyone pressuring them can get into your (their) computer since they control the password. It is way to easy for SOHO users looking for time-wasters in the Microsoft store to convert the local account into their own user login and lock out everybody including admin. The email address of the logon is proudly displayed on the logon screen to unauthenticated users, with no way to turn this off.

Stop spouting non-sense. This is totally false. I've been running Windows 10 since November on my work laptop and since January on my home desktop. You only need to use a Microsoft account to get access to the App Store. This access is easier if you use the Microsoft account as your Windows User account so you don't have to log in every time you use the App Store, but Windows 10 will happily let you use regular old Windows User accounts.

Re:I know

[Anonymous Coward]

I know what you mean. Open up the Add/Remove Programs list in Windows 7 and it lists 25 programs. Same window in Windows 8 can show literally only 3 programs at a time within the confines of the default dialog box size due to the large font and massive amounts of wasted space around the sides. How is this an upgrade to productivity?

Re:I know

[dwillden]

Note that High Contrast is not throw away. They've kept it in every version of windows since 3.1(or earlier) for a reason. Some people can only use that mode. I have a co-worker whose color blindness makes that the only setting that is actually useable to him.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[omnichad]

So when (by your metric) will Windows 7 be stable?

And still we do not know what can of worms...

[gweihir]

... the actual license conditions will be. If I do the update, will I have to buy a new one if my MB/CPU/disk dies? And then there is the thing about updates not being user-blockable. Sure, the raising fascism (a.k.a. "law enforcement") will love that, but for everybody else it is a potential nightmare and not only because it is an ideal channel to push spy-ware and backdoors. Somehow MS seems to think this is _their_ machine, not mine and that is just unacceptable.

I winder what other nasty surprises MS will try to get on the user's machines.

Re:And still we do not know what can of worms...

[fahrbot-bot]

And then there is the thing about updates not being user-blockable.

My understanding is that restriction is only for systems upgraded from the previous Windows "Home" versions.

Re:And still we do not know what can of worms...

[SScorpio]

I don't know about CPU/MB, but if your disk dies you will be able to install just Windows 10 and activate it. Windows 10 as an upgrade from 7/8 doesn't have a product key, you will be required to have a Microsoft account. This account will store the license for your computer.

Re:And still we do not know what can of worms...

[Coren22]

Hmm, my understanding was that a domain was required in order to turn off automatic updating. It is possible I heard wrong though.

Re:And still we do not know what can of worms...

[gweihir]

Last I read is that it was for _all_ versions, except for a special enterprise version that you cannot buy. The regular enterprise version also has non-blockable updates.

Re:And still we do not know what can of worms...

[gweihir]

An MS account? Thanks, then I will never do the update.

Re:And still we do not know what can of worms...

[crashumbc]

I heard home versions were all non-blockable, but the enterprise versions you could.

Most companies won't go anywhere fucking near Windows 10 unless they can test in-house with their software before pushing it out to the users machines.

Personally, I'm hoping that shit is the first thing hacked so you can block updates.

What will probably happen is they'll fat finger a update, trash a tens of thousands, or more people's computers. The publicity shit storm will force them to allow blocking of updates.

I personally always wait a couple days before updating.

Re:And still we do not know what can of worms...

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had a Hotmail account for close to 2 decades now, and that seems to work fine as your Microsoft account.

Re:And still we do not know what can of worms...

[Dog-Cow]

I mostly ignore AC's. There are too many self-important cretins hiding behind it. Slashdot offers pseudonymity. Use it.

Right. Being a pseudonymous asshole is so much better.

Re:And still we do not know what can of worms...

[gweihir]

I wouldn't know. But you seem to have experience with being an asshole. How is it working out for you?

10240 !!

[Kevoco]

that's ( 2 ^ 10 ) x 10

Might as well upgrade when it comes out

[ErichTheRed]

Microsoft hasn't exactly lavished attention on downlevel operating system versions once the new one comes out. This is especially true with Windows 8 -- they're looking to bury that as quickly as possible. It's very similar to when Windows 7 / 2008 R2 came out. Anyone still running Vista or Server 2008 was "encouraged" to upgrade because no new features were being back ported to previous versions.

I expect the same thing is going to happen with Windows 7. For example, Server 2008 R2 has had a few 2012 features at least partially available to earlier operating systems. I expect this is going to stop, and the bare minimum level of patch support is going to be put in place for both 8.1 and 7.

Windows 10 really isn't all that bad. They brought back just enough of the classic desktop to keep people from revolting, and I really wish they would have done more. But it's very stable, and once Cortana/Microsoft account links/live tiles have been turned off, it's a good general purpose OS. I wish Microsoft would put the Store and Windows Phone out of its misery though. I know they're going to try to force all new development onto the Universal app platform, but hopefully they'll keep backward compatibility in for a long time.

Re:Might as well upgrade when it comes out

[thegarbz]

I would actually like the opposite for the Store. Rather than put it out of its misery, open it up to anyone and everyone without fee or lock-in.

I don't like Linux on the desktop. I find many things about it infuriating. But a centralized place to get software is one of my biggest likes about Linux. It just won't work with the vendor lock-in / closed ecosystem that Microsoft is trying to push.

Re:Might as well upgrade when it comes out

[reikae]

They brought back just enough of the classic desktop to keep people from revolting,

I suppose you're talking about the start menu, and possibly multiple desktops too. Apart from those, there actually seems to be a lot of more of Moden UI stuff in 10 than in 8.1; for example the familiar Windows Calculator is a "Metro" program in 10 as far as I can tell. Windows Photo Viewer can only print, browsing/viewing images happens in the modern UI Photos application.

Re:Might as well upgrade when it comes out

[dave420]

Windows 10 will support a Linuxesque package manager. You can read more here albeit a bit out of date, but good information none the less.

Re:Might as well upgrade when it comes out

[Anonymous Coward]

Personally, I'm going to wait for the first service pack - because there are still a few "shoot yourself in the foot" issues with the current Win10. Such as sending your WiFi passwords to the cloud to be shared with friends of friends.

Re:Might as well upgrade when it comes out

[thegarbz]

My point was not the existence of a package manager, but the existence of one with a useful and full collection of packages. It looks good. I hope it gets adopted.

Re:Might as well upgrade when it comes out

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't know about 10, but Windows 8.1 included both the "metro" Calculator app and good old calc.exe.

The "metro" one was nice for a quick tally (the same as any phone calculator app), but it lacked the nice features of calc.exe like Scientific and Programmer modes.

The only thing you had to remember was that on the all programs part of the start screen, the old calc.exe program was located in Windows Accessories, far off to the right side of the list, right next to Character Map and Command Prompt.

Are there any OS features?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are there any actual known or advertised improvements to the kernel or filesystem?

I don't really care about UI. I can make do with whatever terrible UI they throw at me, as long as there's something to make it worthwhile. Is there?

Also don't care about non-PC windows devices or cloud/app-store money-grabs. These are non-features.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[WheezyJoe]

Windows 7 passes as Vista Service Pack 2. Hence the stability.

Re:Does anyone else keep reading these ATM?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I do keep reading it ad "RTFM" though as in "Return To Fucking Microsoft".

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[Anonymous Coward]

July 12, 2010. That was the service pack released after the October 22, 2009 service pack that was released for the operating system that came out January 30, 2007. Note that I'm describing things as they actually happened, not necessarily based on what the software releases were named (or how they were priced).

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[Anonymous Psychopath]

Windows 7 passes as Vista Service Pack 2. Hence the stability.

Uh... wouldn't that logic make Windows 10 the same thing as Windows 8.2?

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[omnichad]

Vista had its own Service Pack 2. Actually wasn't too bad. Have you been out of touch for a while?

Looking over the cliff. Jump?

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

So what does the free upgrade to 10 from 7 get me? Will I have a normal UI, i.e. non-tablet/phone? Will programs including games break? Drivers for basic stuff like sound and Geforcd 3D card?

If stuff breaks and I have a miserable few days tracking down drivers, or months (all major online games? Gog and Steam stuff?) waiting for fixes from companies involved, what is the point?

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[Anonymous Coward]

The vrr-vrr-vrr-whoooosh is the sound of a Vista CD going past at 100,000 RPM. It's really lucky for you that it went over your head.

Re:Looking over the cliff. Jump?

[PRMan]

So what does the free upgrade to 10 from 7 get me?

As I said above: Speed. Battery life. DirectX12. 3 more years of bug-fix support.

Will I have a normal UI, i.e. non-tablet/phone?

Yes. It boots to a desktop just like Windows 7.

Will programs including games break?

All of my programs work perfectly. I don't game on my laptop, but many gamers are saying it works great.

Drivers for basic stuff like sound and Geforcd 3D card?

The driver model hasn't changed since Vista, so 99% of all drivers should work just fine as is (there's always that 1% of driver developers that did something REALLY stupid). If you can't find "Windows 10" driver for something, just try the newest Vista/7/8 driver instead. Should work just fine. NVidia has been advertising Windows 10 support in their last several releases, so I'm sure you are good there.

Has 'classic' mode returned?

[0100010001010011]

Personally the Windows UI topped out around NT/2000. I've tried as hard as I could to make XP and Windows 7 look exactly like it. My task bar has 3 rows because that's how I work. It doesn't work for other people and I understand where Microsoft is going with the 'tabletification'. It's just a rehash of Microsoft Bob and Apple's At Ease. It's a computer interface for non computer people.

My wife loves her Windows 8 laptop. I try to use it and it's probably one of the most frustrating things I have ever used. Who decided you could only have a few apps up on a screen and they would try to take full control? How about the 'full screen' start menu.

All I want is a simple "Windows Classic" theme that makes Windows 10 look exactly like Windows 2000. That's it. Keep all the fancy kernel improvements and everything else, I just want to interact with the computer how I've found it best.

Re:Has 'classic' mode returned?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just the look that's a problem. There are also wizards that interrupt you every other day to point out that you have unused icons. All this crap was added after Windows 2000 and it would be nice to get rid of it too.

Re:Has 'classic' mode returned?

[exomondo]

All I want is a simple "Windows Classic" theme that makes Windows 10 look exactly like Windows 2000. That's it. Keep all the fancy kernel improvements and everything else, I just want to interact with the computer how I've found it best.

There have always been alternative shells for those who don't like the out-of-the-box UI.

Re:Has 'classic' mode returned?

[Anonymous Coward]

It's not just the look that's a problem. There are also wizards that interrupt you every other day to point out that you have unused icons. All this crap was added after Windows 2000 and it would be nice to get rid of it too.

That showed up every 60 days, and it was already removed in Vista. I can't recall any regular nags that happen since moving to Vista way back when (then 7, then 8).

Re:Has 'classic' mode returned?

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 2000 did not have pinnacle tabs. I've always hated fucking idiots like you. Motherfucker, computers have been in a constant state of change since day fucking one. Yet, there has always been dumb cocksuckers like you that snag on some ancient nugget of shit and say, "Oh... *snort*... yeah it was BETTER when they did it this way." FUCK YOU!

Re:Has 'classic' mode returned?

[Anonymous Coward]

As opposed to the dumb motherfuckers like you who try to make us all think the latest turds are always the tastiest just to soothe your insecurities?

Re:Has 'classic' mode returned?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gnome, Cocoa, KDE, Workplace Shell, XFCE, FVWM...

Re:Looking over the cliff. Jump?

[Coren22]

So what does the free upgrade to 10 from 7 get me? Will I have a normal UI, i.e. non-tablet/phone?

Yes. It uses the start menu of old with an additional section for live tiles.

Will programs including games break?

Possibly, you would have to check each game yourself.

Drivers for basic stuff like sound and Geforcd 3D card?

Drivers seem fine so far.

If stuff breaks and I have a miserable few days tracking down drivers, or months (all major online games? Gog and Steam stuff?) waiting for fixes from companies involved, what is the point?

I doubt it will be that bad. It has been available to beta test for the past 6 months or so, so many people have hammered at it already.

So how do they know for sure?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did they see it pop up as an ad in Microsoft's new Taskbar advertising delivery system?

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[epyT-R]

vista = nt 6.0
7 = nt 6.1
8 = nt 6.2
8.1 = nt 6.3
10 = nt 6.4 (even though they changed the build numbers to 10.x)

Re:Looking over the cliff. Jump?

[stackOVFL]

Yup, that's my thinking too. I also see no real motivation to upgrade. All my stuff works on Win7. Don't need it, don't want it no thanks. I'm sick of windows and the never ending suckage from my wallet.

My issue with Windows 10, forced updates

[Cito]

You have no choice over windows updates. Tons of times we've seen articles here and around the net how a specific KBupdate should be ignored due to causing crashing, lockups, reboot loops, etc forcing folks to go back to a restore point or boot into safe mode if possible and uninstall the update, or worse.

Now Windows 10 has no option to pick and choose which updates you want. You can't decide to hold off on updates either. All Windows 10 updates are pushed and installed automatically.

That itself is a huge turnoff on getting Windows 10.

if they change their stance and allow it like in previous windows where you can pick which updates, hide, ignore or select all and update then I'll update. Until then, I'm not interested.

Re:My issue with Windows 10, forced updates

[jetkust]

What? You didn't like it when Windows forcefully turns off your computer without regard for any data you may have lost, only to create a paradox where every time you turn on your computer it starts installing updates but gets infinitely stuck at 70% progress all the while insisting that turning the computer off at THIS point is the worst thing you can do.

Re:My issue with Windows 10, forced updates

[Anonymous Coward]

Yep, had both parent and GP events.
My work computer rebooting after a long model run (26 hrs) was a particular piss off.
Coming in that morning with a deadline and finding no data and a happy little icon bragging how it had rebooted was just pure panic.
I now turn auto update off for everything I can find.

Even worse though is the impact forced updates will have on mobile data users.
I have 3 friends whose data requirements are low and user tethering to access the internet.
I am more than happy for them to update there computers at my place. I wonder how much that will cost with uncontrollable updates chewing out all their data.
Some mobile providers charge more than $200 a gig. for over use and then there are roaming expenses
frig knows how much that will cost.

Hopefully a few - I checked facebook while overseas and got a $20,000 bill stories will get such a stupid policy changed!
Then again - maybe not.
Windows 7 - here I stay!

No thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

Do not want.

Re:No thanks

[Anonymous Coward]

do not care

Everyone take a big gulp...

[Anonymous Coward]

From the jug of MS Kool-Aid. Windows 10 is going to be the best! (at serving ads) The automatic updates are going to be a game changer (for the NSA)! The "Universal Apps" are going to be great (and hopefully save our dying mobile business)! Drink deeply folks...the upgrade isn't THAT bad (except it really is)!

Personally, I'm going to wait... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: I prefer Windows but I have a perfectly working Win7 setup, so what's the reason for me to upgrade? None really. Even when it's being offered to me for free (via Windows update)... not that I don't LIKE what I've seen in reviews + screenshots from MANY reputable enough sources online.

* I just don't NEED/require it is all... &, like I was with cellphones? I'll wait it out, see what it comes out like "in the wash" of MILLIONS using it BEFORE me, 1st.

APK

P.S.=> I'd wager, however, that it's going to be PRETTY GOOD (for 'ages old features' that my version of Windows in 7 already has, as did ones before it - however, *ANYTHING* new will probably most LIKELY be, 'bug-riddled', somehow - that's how it goes with "the new hotness" almost EVERY single time... hence, I'll wait, & that is 'THE' reason why, here)... apk

Re:Personally, I'm going to wait... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

An APK post not mentioning host files? Holy shit! He took his meds today!

Breaking the stained glass window.

[westlake]

This seems like a good opportunity for Slashdot to retire its dorkish stained glass Windows icon. Windows 1.0 was released in 1985, 29 years ago, and 12 years before the launch of Slashdot.

Re:Breaking the stained glass window.

[epyT-R]

Actually, I miss the previous one that was shattered and torched.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[mjwx]

Vista had its own Service Pack 2. Actually wasn't too bad. Have you been out of touch for a while?

It was called Windows 7.

Vista is a fine example of if you fuck up the release and fix it later, people will never consider it fixed. if MS makes the same mistake with Win 10 then it'll suffer the same fate as Vista and having two consecutive OS versions universally despised and ignored will not be good for MS.

If anyone is going to suffer catastrophically from the "release now, fix later" mentality, its Microsoft.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[Black LED]

I don't disagree that Windows 7 was basically Vista with a slightly improved taskbar, but it would be SP3 since Vista actually had an SP2. I never used Vista RTM, but I did use SP1 and SP2 for three years and had no problems with them.

Control Panel vs Settings

[Neo-Rio-101]

We complained to Microsoft that we didn't want the schizophrenic UI choice of "control panel" vs "settings"
They listened, and then ignored everyone.
There is no good reason for both to exist in Windows 10 at all.

They've pushed this OS out the door minus the polish required to fix this glaring disparity.

Granted, these things will probably get fixed in later versions, but currently Windows 10 has plenty of niggling issues still, and they're pushing it out the door.
Full screen on a number of apps doesn't work properly (being the major one I've discovered)

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[mcrbids]

I am amaze.

I had Windows Vista up on a (then rather beefy) 3-core 64B Athlon with 3 GB of RAM. IT WAS A DOG. Figure several minutes until it was responsive on boot, etc. Double-click a program and wait for the icon to blink, etc.

Upgrading the machine to Windows 7 without changing *anything* and it was like a new computer! It booted much faster, programs launched quickly enough that the coffee maker started to feel abandoned.

And it was *always* that slow, it wasn't due to malware.

Re:Looking over the cliff. Jump?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll be buying a new SSD for a clean install of Win10 and keeping my Win7 install to the side.

The UI changes will need investigation, but it sounds like there's both positive and negative aspects.

I heard one of the potential breakage points is that the OS kernal version will be reported as 10.x not 6.x, so drivers & programs *should* be fine if they can handle that.

Did they fix the start menu

[Anonymous Coward]

Did they fix the start menu?

I had a preview running in a VM a couple of weeks ago, and I could not figure out any way to add a folder (sub menu) to the start menu. It seemed the only customizable part was the live tile "return of the start screen" part of the start menu, that gets turned off first thing.

If not, I'll consider this another even-numbered Windows version, and stay with Windows 7 while waiting for Windows 11.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[dave420]

"Vista is a fine example of if you fuck up the release and fix it later, some people will never consider it fixed."

Plenty of people consider it fixed. Vista was fine after SP1.

Re:Looking over the cliff. Jump?

[Anonymous Coward]

After few updates the UI can be whatever brainfart MS decides to slap into their customers that day. The forced rolling update model they use with Windows 10 can change it to a equivalent of Vista or Metro any day.

Windows Is Like An Aging 20th Century Prostitute..

[JohnnyMindcrime]

...slap on another coat of make-up on its aging wrinkled & drooping skin, then send it out on the streets to make some money one more time.

Interesting to also note the U-Turn on roll-outs for Windows 10 according to Terry Myerson's Blog which says "Starting on July 29, we will start rolling out Windows 10 to our Windows Insiders". Who???

So those of you sat there eagerly waiting to download it come July 29 may need to demonstrate some patience...

Patience is a virtue

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll wait a few months to see how well the bugs have been ironed out. Not sure what the hurry is? Its free for a year and who wants to take a chance on a buggy start
until all the bugs get worked out. I don't see anything in Windows 10 that is particularly pressing to install right away. Microsoft can't seem to keep a constant stable path with Windows. It seems it finds a stable a smooth transition like Windows XP, then mucks it up with Vista, then fixes it with Windows 7 another fine stable OS version. Then it precedes to muck things up again with Windows 8, with a half hearted fix with 8.1 and now we are back full circle with Windows 10?
Its a roller coaster ride with Windows and I think i'll wait for a while to see if the ride gets stuck again.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[AmiMoJo]

The NT version numbers are more like API numbers. Vista as 6 because it introduced a lot of changes to the way applications interacted with the OS, such as virtualizing the filesystem and registry on a per-app basis.

Service packs generally don't add new features, they just roll up existing updates. The exception was XP SP2 which added some much needed new security features. Generally speaking though you don't get major new features with service packs, just consolidation. Thus, Windows 7 can't be considered a service pack as it added a lot of new stuff.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[JohnStock]

I laughed out loud to this.

Doesnt play well with domains

[Anonymous Coward]

Overall, I have really liked W10 'pro'. The new and improved (maybe) start menu -- I always clustered frequently run programs into folders to keep my desktop from looking like a bad case of acne, so the rearrangeable tiles are pretty close, maybe even better. Because I installed over an 8.1 machine, all my applications came through, so far no fails. There have been a few issues to be sure... the new pdf printer blows up if used from Chrome but works ok in Edge. Edge doesn't have any way to save an open pdf that I have found. I have not tried Edge on any Microsoft sites -- previously they always seemed to be the last to work well with a new version of IE. Odd that.

But the one thing that does concern me is while W10 authenticates to my domain, and I can access shares there (a few TB so not trivial), the domain client app, dashboard and server management tools wont connect. Not clear if the domain was backing it up either. One poster claimed that if he reinstalled the client everything worked. Well, I got that part right -- it would uninstall but wont reinstall. It may just be sulking since I just run 2012 essentials, refusing to rebuy the license for R2. One suspects they want to push everything up to the cloud. I would except that it is a metered connection and that would be pricey. So I will likely end up with some other kind of back end for domain storage and other common services.

Forced updates

[Anonymous Coward]

My biggest concern is that from Windows 10 there will be no more major releases. Instead security updates and features will be drip fed via Windows update. However for Home users, it is no longer possible to turn off updates, even those which are new features rather than security related. This can be annoying on your own computer but if you have to support anyone else, it's going to be a nightmare. Can you imagine if Microsoft do something like the "Modern" interface and "Start Screen" changes introduced in Windows 8 as a forced update. Suddenly your PC no longer boots into the desktop but some new GUI which you're going to have to learn (quickly) to use, and probably changes all your default applications to the new "modern" ones. I support my parents PC, who are both non technical, so I don't look forward to the phone calls of "everything has changed on my computer, I can't find email any longer".

Didn't anyone notice?

[Anonymous Coward]

Build 10240 = 10 * 2^10

Windows 10.

Get it?

Quit projecting... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: You forgot your courage pills posting by ac the way you always do, fool...

* What's the matter? Did I totally KICK YOUR ASS so badly regarding hosts files that all you have is your whimp stalking (or downmodding my posts) while you post as a totally UNIDENTIFIABLE coward??

Yes, obviously, to all accounts I just noted.

APK

P.S.=> I'd like to meet you for 3 minutes in person, & I'd make you not only eat your words, but also your dental work, you little PUSSY motherfucker... apk

Win10 Build 10240

[Tribeca1248]

Got it installed this morning. Not radically different from build 10166 in appearance, but there is now an EULA to agree to, as well as Express Settings to click on - you can change them later - that seem to give Microsoft a lot of information about your use of the PC so they can "get to know you." As time permits, I plan on beating on this version a LOT. One thing that has been done was to install Classic Shell as a Start Menu replacement. So far, that seems to be working just fine. I expect to see more changes as time passes, since this will apparently never be quite ready to have a fork stuck in it.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[Black LED]

The PC I used Vista on was an Acer Aspire 8930 which has a Core 2 Duo P8400 2.26GHz, 4GB DDR2 RAM and a Geforce 9600M GT with 512MB GDDR3 VRAM. It originally came with Vista Home Premium SP1 and later updated to SP2. Never had a single serious problem with it, stability or performance-wise.

When I installed Windows 7 on the same PC, I didn't see a difference other than having to remove the pinned items from the taskbar and resizing it back down to "normal" size. That's why it felt like Vista SP3 to me.

Re:Looking over the cliff. Jump?

[armanox]

I'm going to disagree with speed - the OS has bogged down hardware much more then Windows 7 and 8 ever did.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. Windows 10 is basically Windows 8..2 -- or rather Windows 8.1 Update 1 Add-on Pack 1. But since the Windows 8 name is dogshit, the marketers decided to change the name.

Re:It isn't stable yet...

[MoarSauce123]

Agree, there is still plenty of stuff broken and plenty of user feedback ignored. Hibernation is still broken and I hope Microsoft fired the idiot who decided to split configuration between Settings and Control Panel. Why would anyone ever think this is a good idea? Also, keyboard layout and language preferences are shared across all devices via the Microsoft account. Sucks for people like me who run systems with different keyboards attached. Even worse, the login page never really knows which keyboard layout it is supposed to use, so good luck having the correct password be recognized on the first try. I have to type it in multiple times as it would be typed in using a different keyboard layout. Sure, I could give each box a different account, but that defeats the purpose of managing systems and exchanging non-localized settings, data, and apps across devices. Microsoft also needs to work on Edge, I tried it on a handful of sites and Edge either didn't display them properly or just crashed. Reporting all these issues to Microsoft seems to be pointless because they don't fix any of them. It appears as that the Feedback app is just an about face attempt to come across as user oriented. I bet nobody ever looks at the submissions. Leaves the question, when does the first Service Pack come out and when can we expect Windows 11? Or is this display or dismal quality the kick in the pants to look for alternatives?