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Apple Patents Bank Account Balance Snooping Tech

Posted by samzenpus on from the what-do-you-got-in-there? dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Apple's latest patent filings shows that the company is looking into displaying advertising based on your available bank balance. If Apple moves forward with this type of technology it would be a complete 360 on its previous direction to not monetize everything they know about customers. Tim Cook has even said multiple times that companies are targeting consumers on multiple fronts and that he's completely against using customer information in this manner and it's not the kind of company he wants Apple to be.

133 comments

  1. 360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Seriously.

    1. Re: 360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, i think you meant '180'.

    2. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by hattable · · Score: 1

      Freudian slip.

      --
      OMG facts!
    3. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by HairyNevus · · Score: 1

      The summary got the geometry right, forgot to mention Tim Cook has started moonwalking everywhere.

      --
      You were critically hit for no damage. The bruise will look nice, and maybe the scars will make good party talk.
    4. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by alexhs · · Score: 1

      360 degrees is not what you think it is

      Maybe it is !
      And with the reporting spin, it amounts to 540 degrees !
      Plus, the submitter didn't mention degrees (or it has been eaten by slashcode, see: "°" : ""). Maybe it's 360 half-degrees ? There's no way to know as TFA doesn't mention it.

      Don’t worry, this service is opt-in so if the idea of a giant snooping around your bank makes you uneasy, you don’t have to comply.

      See ? Not that bad.

      It’s worth noting that this is just a patent, it’s unclear when or if Apple will bring this service into the market or if the actual service will reflect the suggested wording within said patent.

      And it's actually a wild speculation.

      BTW, can someone tell me how this is promoting "the Progress of Science and useful Arts" ?

      --
      I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
    5. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

      Don’t worry, this service is opt-in so if the idea of a giant snooping around your bank makes you uneasy, you don’t have to comply.

      See ? Not that bad.

      When you say "you don't have to comply", what you're really saying is you don't have to buy an iPhone.

      It’s worth noting that this is just a patent, it’s unclear when or if Apple will bring this service into the market or if the actual service will reflect the suggested wording within said patent.

      And it's actually a wild speculation.

      "Wild speculation" that a company that has filed a patent for a technology has some intention on monetizing that technology.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The summary writer is a Apple fanatic who lives in a parallel universum invented by Steve the Great.

    7. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Companies patent stuff all the time, often as a defensive measure. Outrage should be reserved for what companies actually do. There is no indication that Apple is implementing this idea.

      Also, the actual patent, does not mention your "bank account", only your available credit.

    8. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Evil Eye Benedict likes this - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g751-jjKXC0

    9. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anna+Merikin · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yes, exactly. It is possible that Apple applied for a patent on this technology to prevent it being used by anyone, at least for the life of the patent.

      Then, again, if times get tough, it can always be monetized.

    10. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by michelcolman · · Score: 1

      Well, if you enter a roundabout, go all the way around (360 degrees) and exit again, you are going back to where you came from.

      Just being an idiot's advocate here ;-)

    11. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by alexhs · · Score: 1

      Your biases are showing :)

      When you say "you don't have to comply", what you're really saying is you don't have to buy an iPhone.

      I didn't say, I was quoting the article, that is probably also guessing on that point, because they don't give any source for that allegation.
      My point was that the summary asserted that if Apple were to implement this patent, it would be a U-turn for them, when the article doesn't state as much.
      Your allegation is also a biased speculation, especially as buying an Android or a Windows phone is unlikely to protect you, which gets us to the second point.

      "Wild speculation" that a company that has filed a patent for a technology has some intention on monetizing that technology.

      Large companies are patenting everything they can, because it is cheap to them. They can benefit from these patents in different ways :

      • Direct monetization by the way of an exclusive feature. In that case, not going to maximize their benefit. What's the point of exclusivity when competitor phone makers have a disjoint set of users ? It's not going to give them more users.
      • Monetization through patent licensing. Also get them some money from competitors like Google and Microsoft. Amazon would probably be interested, too.
      • Patent cross-licensing agreement. That's what big companies do. When time comes to renegotiate the agreement, they better have something interesting to show up. They don't get money, but more patents to use.
      • Defensive patent. If a litigious company is doing something like that, it better properly license that patent before suing. Probably not applicable in that case, as the patent is quite specific.

      I notice that quite a few Slashdotters are going with "prevent other companies to implement methods described by that patent", but that is wishful thinking :) .

      --
      I have discovered a truly marvelous proof of killer sig, which this margin is too narrow to contain.
    12. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 4, Funny
      I checked out the patent.....

      Aaaaaaannnnd What the fuck?

      So to put it mildly, the article is 100 percent Bullshit, a fucking lie, yet will be held as gospel truth by Apple haters.

      This article needs taken down now, It is not factual, and the patent is for available credit, not bank account balance. there is a huie difference in both availability and ethics.

      Thank you Shanghai Bill, for exposing the truth in the increasingly clickbaitish and not at all concerned with actual truth, Slashdot.

      6 Weeks of shame on you Samzenpus. So were you lying, or just performing the worst fact checking since people made up shit ot get Pulitzer prizes?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    13. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if you enter a roundabout, go all the way around (360 degrees) and exit again, you are going back to where you came from.

      Just being an idiot's advocate here ;-)

      That's only 180 degrees in your direction. To do a full 360 degrees, one would have to continue in the original direction. Sheesh.

    14. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Cederic · · Score: 0

      his article needs taken down now, It is not factual, and the patent is for available credit, not bank account balance. there is a huie difference in both availability and ethics.

      A fucking shiny toy manufacturer wants to find out your available credit and use it to target ways of getting you to part with it, and you think that's substantively from using your bank balance?

      You complete fucking muppet.

    15. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      his article needs taken down now, It is not factual, and the patent is for available credit, not bank account balance. there is a huie difference in both availability and ethics.

      A fucking shiny toy manufacturer wants to find out your available credit and use it to target ways of getting you to part with it, and you think that's substantively from using your bank balance?

      You complete fucking muppet.

      Ummm - my credit line is not at all related to my bank balance, or my investments. Two or three completely separate, unrelated numbers. Ironically, since I pay off my credit card bill every month, my available credit is substantially less than most of the intelligent people who tend to make convenient minimum monthly payments. There was never a need to raise it.

      You do know that every time you use your credit card it is checked against what your credit limit, which is your available line of credit, don't you?

      Go learn some things about credit, checking, and savings.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    16. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Cederic · · Score: 2

      Thanks for telling people that haven't worked for credit card companies or banks what a credit line is. I already knew.

      Now try telling us why it's so ethically different a financial attribute on which to base advertising than a bank balance.

    17. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by infolation · · Score: 1
      The patent does specifically say that it covers accessing a bank account (34. the user's account provided by... a bank).

      The available credit of a bank account would be your bank balance plus overdraft facility, not your credit card's lending limit.

      [0031] In one embodiment of the invention, the delivery element 32 of the advertisement management system 14 is arranged to analyze the user's available credit in order to assess the likelihood of a user being able to purchase advertised goods and/or services. The available credit may be provided by the billing system 26, i.e., from the user's account maintained by the billing system, 26, or from a credit extending system or facility 34, from the user's account provided by the credit extending facility 34. the credit extending facility 34 may be a bank or credit card company . Alternatively, the available credit can be provided to the delivery element 32 in a batch type of database action, i.e., delivered periodically and stored in a database of the advertisement management system 14.

    18. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 1

      Yup. They're probably working on a separate patent for your "bank account". That way they can license one or the other or both to interested parties.

    19. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      p>Now try telling us why it's so ethically different a financial attribute on which to base advertising than a bank balance.

      Sorry, I'm a:

      You complete fucking muppet.

      You don't play nice with others, so look it up yourself. I have no obligation to deal with the Visigoths, Cedric.

      There is a difference.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    20. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Cederic · · Score: 1

      I see that you're living up to the description I gave you, by failing miserably to have any rationale or logic to your complete nonsense.

      But don't go getting Cedric involved, he gets enough of my email already.

    21. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thanks for telling people that haven't worked for credit card companies or banks what a credit line is. I already knew.

      Then why did you ask the question in the first place? If you know what a line of credit is then you already know why using your available credit is substantively different from using your bank balance.

    22. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by exomondo · · Score: 1

      This article needs taken down now, It is not factual, and the patent is for available credit, not bank account balance. there is a huie difference in both availability and ethics.

      It's largely the same thing in practical terms, the bank account Apple can query is accessible either as a credit card (available credit) or as a debit card using the VISA, MasterCard, Citi, etc. systems where the "available credit" is the balance of the account the card is linked to.

    23. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      y'know, he never did look good iun a slip. I think that was part of his problem, why he made up all that stupid shit.

    24. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Pubstar · · Score: 1

      Fuck, someone beat me to it.

    25. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Etherwalk · · Score: 1

      Ummm - my credit line is not at all related to my bank balance, or my investments. Two or three completely separate, unrelated numbers.

      Separate, yes; unrelated, not so much. I hypothesize that not many people with $300 in their bank account have a $250K line of credit, for example.

      We advertise based on bank account and related value metrics all the time, of course. The specific information might be protected to some extent by laws, but the media kit for most good advertising mediums gives you income and net worth type information about your target audience.

      Obviousness rejection, anyone? Still, we're not very good about those.

    26. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      And you'd be going the wrong way down the road you entered the roundabout on.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    27. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A roundabout is a +90 turn, then -360 circle, then another +90 turn, making a total angle adjustment of -180 degrees.

    28. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Sun · · Score: 2

      A Freudian slip is when you mean one thing but say your mother.
      - Anonymous

      Shachar

    29. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Sir_Substance · · Score: 1

      I took it as a subtle dig at everyone who believed apple when they said "we're collecting all this data but we're not going to weaponise it against you".

      It's a 360 degree turn to right where they were obviously always heading.

    30. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How cute, you think Slashdot editors fact check?

      Welcome to Slashdot.

    31. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by cant_get_a_good_nick · · Score: 1

      We're gonna turn this team around 360 degrees

      -- Jason Kidd.

      So you're gonna spin around and get dizzy and still accomplish nothing

      -- Me

    32. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      so true.

      they've been monetizing their user information for ages now with their i ads system.

      But it's okay, I can say I'm the Ruler of the Galaxy and it's automatically true because I said it.

    33. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by nanoflower · · Score: 1

      Your credit card company works very differently from mine. I did the same thing with paying off what I owed every month instead of keeping a balance. As a result my credit limit kept being raised. Now it probably helped that I did make a few expensive purchases along the way (no more than a few thousand dollars) but I paid those off right away, as I've always been a believer in buying something only when you actually have the money in hand. I suspect if I had just used the card to buy little things and paid those off each month the limit might not have been raised or at least not very much since I clearly wasn't using it that much.

    34. Re:360 degrees is not what you think it is by LessThanObvious · · Score: 1

      Now filing patent on process of using evil software to collect any information from victims generally referred to as customers to be used for the purpose of monetizing supposedly free services or for extracting additional revenue from existing paying victims AKA customers.

      License fee for tech companies, ten dollars per user.

  2. Complete 360? by slickwillie · · Score: 3, Funny

    So they are back to where they started?

    1. Re:Complete 360? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps it depends on the geometry they are using.

    2. Re:Complete 360? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The headline is also completely 100% inaccurate. What's patented here is the ability to advertise based on knowing the credit available. Not the ability to find out what the credit available is.

    3. Re:Complete 360? by Feral+Nerd · · Score: 2

      So they are back to where they started?

      Don't worry about this patent. I'm pretty sure the NSA has prior art on this.

    4. Re: Complete 360? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially if it's climbing a helix. Then even being the same direction they do it with a "higher purpose." ;-)

    5. Re: Complete 360? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And with the deep ties with banks due to the existing Apple Pay technology, they don't need another new patent for that issue.

  3. Phone prepaid credit. by aepervius · · Score: 1

    I read it not as reading your bank account, but as having access to your prepaid credit for the phone bill. Isn't that already a feature accessible for prepaid phone ? I may have misread naturally.

    --
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    http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
    visit randi.org
    1. Re:Phone prepaid credit. by gl4ss · · Score: 1

      well sort of
      #123# or some sort ussd code. might change from network to network.

      however, one thing is certain, it's only going to show that you're a cheapskate(because of using prepaid)!

      also, even if you're not a cheapskate, you're not really going to have more than ten bucks loaded into your prepaid anyways likely.

      so.. the whole concept of using your prepaid balance to decide which adverts to show for you seems rather dull.

      --
      world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
  4. It is not a 360... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It is a 180, going in the opposite direction. A 360 will be still going in the same direction. Of course this is in Degrees.

    1. Re:It is not a 360... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not if you descent or climb at the same time as making the turn.

    2. Re:It is not a 360... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Time to switch to gradians to avoid these stupid confusions

    3. Re:It is not a 360... by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      hmm.. the spiral stair case problem... I guess that is what we can call it.

  5. If Apple owns the patent by Kohath · · Score: 0

    then Google can't use this technique. Personally, I hope Apple gets more similar patents. Because unlike Google, Apple has promised not to sell my info to advertisers. Worst case, Apple breaks their promise and becomes as bad as Google.

    1. Re:If Apple owns the patent by hattable · · Score: 1

      That's a fair point. It very much feels like patent abuse to obtain if the sole purpose is to deny the technique to competitors but this is the good that comes with the bad of having such lax patent awarding requirements.

      --
      OMG facts!
    2. Re:If Apple owns the patent by flatulus · · Score: 1

      That's a fair point. It very much feels like patent abuse to obtain if the sole purpose is to deny the technique to competitors ...

      Pardon me for being Captain Obvious here, but that is exactly what patents are intended to do! Patent confers intellectual property rights to the patent holder. What that patent holder chooses to (legally) do with those rights is completely up to the holder.

      Haven't you ever heard the conspiracy theories about stuff like Goodyear buying the patent for a 100,000 mile tire? Or GM buying the patent for a 100 mpg car? Or the best yet, the Gubment buying patents to keep technologies out of the private sector?

      Remember, before you say "pshaw!", I did qualify all of these as "conspiracy theories." The best conspiracy theory is one that is unprovable, yaknow.

      Oh, and I do agree with your conclusion. Apple could be trying to keep this out of the hands of other "less ethical" companies (you know, ones that do no evil...)

    3. Re:If Apple owns the patent by Wowsers · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why is it even idea even patentable? It invents nothing.

      --
      Take Nobody's Word For It.
    4. Re:If Apple owns the patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Apple has promised not to sell my info to advertisers.

      LOL.

      Yep, and Obama promised to shut down Guantanamo.

    5. Re:If Apple owns the patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      You do know Apple also has their own Ad agency right? That on iOS you HAVE to use their Ad agency to put ads in your apps. They are already selling your info and have been for a long time.

    6. Re:If Apple owns the patent by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Well, technically he has. There used to be an ice cream shop right on base. It sold burgers and shakes and stuff too. It was named Guantanamo. He shut it down and now the servicemen have to go into Cuba proper in order to get ice cream. That is why normalizing relations with Cuba was so damn important.

    7. Re:If Apple owns the patent by david.emery · · Score: 1

      There's a difference between 'having their own Ad agency' and 'selling information'. Do you have anything to back up your claim that the Apple Ad agency is selling data?

    8. Re:If Apple owns the patent by Alumoi · · Score: 2

      It has the magic words 'on a computer'?

    9. Re:If Apple owns the patent by lucm · · Score: 1

      If you look at the Visio diagram in the patent document you'll see.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    10. Re:If Apple owns the patent by david.emery · · Score: 1

      The patent says that data could be sold. It's a substantial leap to say that Apple is currently selling data (independent of this patent.)

    11. Re:If Apple owns the patent by spire3661 · · Score: 1

      FRAND says 'Hi!'. Not all patents are allowed to be unilaterally controlled by their holders.

      --
      Good-bye
    12. Re: If Apple owns the patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, but only the patent holder gets to decide if they want to make their patent subject to FRAND terms. Typically, this is done when trying to get a standard to approve your parent as part of the standard definition.
      So, no this unlikely to apply to this patent.

    13. Re:If Apple owns the patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like many other software patents. They "invented" it "on a computer"...

    14. Re:If Apple owns the patent by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a fair point. It very much feels like patent abuse to obtain if the sole purpose is to deny the technique to competitors ...

      Pardon me for being Captain Obvious here, but that is exactly what patents are intended to do!

      Pedantically, the underlying purpose of patents is quite the opposite: to provide documentation on how to reproduce inventions so that the public can enjoy their benefits. The limited exclusivity granted by patents is merely the incentive for inventors to provide said documentation rather than keep it as a trade secret, which has the potential of being lost forever if something were to happen to said inventor.

    15. Re:If Apple owns the patent by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Do you have anything to back up your claim that the Apple Ad agency is selling data?

      Do you have anything to back up your claim that Google is selling data?

      This is actually a real question--not entirely facetious.

      It's my understanding that Google doesn't sell your data--it's actually pretty valuable stuff. They sell access to you, much like Apple does with iAd.

    16. Re:If Apple owns the patent by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      Because unlike Google, Apple has promised not to sell my info to advertisers.

      Both Apple and Google don't sell eyeballs. They rent them out. That is far more lucrative that way.

  6. Defensive versus Offensive Patents by BoRegardless · · Score: 2, Insightful

    There are multiple reasons why one wants to obtain a patent, including denying competitors use.

    1. Re:Defensive versus Offensive Patents by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 3, Funny

      Yeah, it's not like Apple has ever been litigious about "their" patents! Oh no, never!

    2. Re:Defensive versus Offensive Patents by grahamtriggs · · Score: 2

      That's the point - on one hand, they could be thinking about doing this, which would be worrying.

      But, by registering a patent, they can make it a lot harder for anyone else to do it - and if they don't do it themselves, then it is a net win for consumers, in preventing such advertising.

    3. Re:Defensive versus Offensive Patents by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Third parties can not access such information, so this will presumably only make sense for Apple Pay and similar services. If your "bank" spies on you and sell information about your balance you cancel that service immidiately. No patents needed.

      If Apple patents this, they must be considering its usage or at the very least want that option to be available in the future.

    4. Re:Defensive versus Offensive Patents by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Why would they want to prevent others from doing it? They try to make out that they are a more ethical company that protects user's privacy (lol) so it would make sense for them to allow other companies to be evil.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  7. Not your bank balance, available credit by SuperKendall · · Score: 2, Informative

    Read the actual patent, it's talking about available credit, not your actual bank balance. The only times banks are mentioned is in reference to them being a potential source of credit.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Not your bank balance, available credit by lisaparratt · · Score: 1

      So not much use for the under 25 demographic that doesn't use their phone as a phone.

      I've got unlimited data, why the hell would I care about the rest of the package?

    2. Re:Not your bank balance, available credit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shouldn't matter, Are you saying I can get a patent for the same process but for the amount spent?

    3. Re:Not your bank balance, available credit by anyGould · · Score: 1

      Can I reserve outrage for the fact that this was granted a patent in the first place?

      Bank balance or available credit or hair color is just data. This is a patent on "looking something up", and is total BS.

      Now, if/when someone tries to actually implement this, I think my response will be mockery, half to whatever company thinks people will give them access to their banking histories in order to improve advertising, and the other half to the idiots that will click "yes" to be entered in a free draw.

  8. On the other hand by alvinrod · · Score: 1

    On the other hand, if Apple has a patent on this, it would prevent others from doing it. But what we really ought to do is just find a patent troll and only give them patents for things like this that are corporate-grade jackassary and turn them loose. We can even situate them in Texas for maximum effectiveness.

    1. Re:On the other hand by zedaroca · · Score: 2

      The reality is way worst than that.
      Everybody will pay to use the patent, and you will pay apple even if you hate them and never buy their products.
      Just like you pay the tv "artists" even if you don't watch tv, because you drink coke, eat rice, wear adidas...

  9. Dogbert's Guide to Conversational Geometry by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 4, Funny

    http://dilbert.com/strip/1992-...

    --
    http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    1. Re:Dogbert's Guide to Conversational Geometry by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Funny

      http://dilbert.com/strip/1992-...

      A quantum leap in 360 degree flips. I literally blew up when I read that. But I could care less

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    2. Re:Dogbert's Guide to Conversational Geometry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, clearly that begs the following question:

      [crickets]

    3. Re:Dogbert's Guide to Conversational Geometry by SJ · · Score: 3, Funny

      But I could care less

      That means you do care
      At least a little

    4. Re:Dogbert's Guide to Conversational Geometry by Sun · · Score: 1

      He also literally blew up.

      In other words, whoosh.

      Shachar

    5. Re: Dogbert's Guide to Conversational Geometry by Samantha+Wright · · Score: 2

      Word criiiiiimes!

      --
      Bio questions? Ask me to start a Q&A journal. Computer analogies available for most topics!
    6. Re:Dogbert's Guide to Conversational Geometry by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      But I could care less

      That means you do care At least a little

      Oh boy. I just put together a grouping of incorrect things people say.

      A quantum leap when they mean huge, when an actual quantum leap is very small, literally blew up for figurately, and yes, the " could care less" busness when they really mean that they could not care less.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    7. Re: Dogbert's Guide to Conversational Geometry by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Word criiiiiimes!

      Pretty much!

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  10. At least there's Last Action Hero... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    https://youtu.be/g751-jjKXC0

  11. How can this be a patent? by SolarAxix · · Score: 5, Insightful

    From my perspective, there isn't anything truly innovative here. It's more like a business process that shouldn't be patentable. Banks already do some of this within their environments with targeted programs based on their customer's level of credit worthiness.

    What's so different between the banks and Apple? Whereas banks only do it based on certain marketing programs, Apple would/could be doing it at a transaction level instead. That being said, they are very similar in concepts.

    I think the bigger question is why can this be a patent?

    From a high-level perspective, it's just a bunch of APIs that are integrated together to get the job done. Put in another way, if someone decides to integrate a set of APIs together, can that be patentable? Should we start to have a patent lawyer on speed-dial if we link different APIs together? Maybe we need to submit patent applications for our new API mashups before someone else or a corporation does it.

    1. Re:How can this be a patent? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      From my perspective, there isn't anything truly innovative here. It's more like a business process that shouldn't be patentable. Banks already do some of this within their environments with targeted programs based on their customer's level of credit worthiness.

      Because that's a big part of the purpose of having banks.

      What's so different between the banks and Apple?

      Ooh, I know this one:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      https://www.fdic.gov/

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:How can this be a patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perhaps Apple does indeed want to become a Bank.
      Their foreign cash reserves will easily meet the capital requirements to setup shop in most major financial centres around the world. With the cash tied up like that the pressure to return it to the USA would be IMHO a lot less.

      Lets watch this space and see what happens in the next 2-3 years

    3. Re:How can this be a patent? by SolarAxix · · Score: 1

      When I said what's different between the banks and Apple, it was about the process itself.

      My bank keeps gets information on my credit card usage even though all the information is stored with VISA, Mastercard, AMEX, etc...

      What is fundamentaly different from a patent perspective between what Apple pantented and what the banks do when it comes to targeted adds based on credit availability? I would say that the only differences would be that Apple would have external ads that are targeted based on a certain credit availability. Even then, I've see ads from afiliated 3rd parties from my bank for insurance companies whereas my son, who doesn't have a job and doesn't have a lot of money going into his account, does not see any of those ads. I would think that the targeted add has looked at our credit worthiness before showing specific ads.

      But if you wanted to look at it from your perpective, Apple might become a bank in the future...

      http://finance.yahoo.com/news/...
      http://waitbutwhy.com/2014/10/...
      http://thehill.com/policy/fina...
      http://www.marketwatch.com/sto...

      I am not sure if it could happen in the US, but in other jurisdictions, I could see it happening. It's already hapening with phone companies becoming banks in Africa:

      http://qz.com/424535/in-south-...
      http://www.bbc.com/news/busine...

    4. Re:How can this be a patent? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From my perspective, there isn't anything truly innovative here.

      There isn't. This is a minor change (at best) to what merchants have been doing for decades. When I purchase something and present my credit card, the merchant checks to see if I have sufficient credit to buy that something. This minor change is called "obvious to one familiar in the art" and is, by definition, unpatentable. But under the "new" politically corrupt US Patent system, anything can be patented now (provided you have the cash for the bribe) and Apple is following a long line of companies patenting stuff people have been doing for a hundred years simply by adding the words "on a cell phone".

  12. At least there's Last Action Hero... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last Action Hero - Now You Turn 360 On Me? https://youtu.be/g751-jjKXC0

  13. Legal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    How does this (sharing private consumer financial information for profit) not violate FCRA and/or GLBA?

    1. Re:Legal? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Gay Lesbian Bi Asexual?

      (No, I know. I am just a wee bit stoned.)

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  14. good! by NostalgiaForInfinity · · Score: 1

    That means other companies can't use this "technology".

    1. Re:good! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Unless they license it from Apple. You know, how they licensed one-click from amazon. Or develop a slight variation of it that does not infringe upon Apple's patent. Or wait 20 years for the patent to expire.

  15. Routine patent hoarding by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nowadays you lay claim to any and all ideas, thoughts, musings, etc. You don't have to even invent them. Then when someone else goes through the trouble of actually creating it, likely without knowledge of your "patent", you get to sue them.

    The patent system is royally fucked up. You should have to invent something, put it into application, and it should have to be something that's not so trivial that anyone can do it.

  16. Enumerate the wealthy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thank you apple!

  17. Apple... by koan · · Score: 1

    "he's completely against using customer information in this manner and its not the kind of company he wants Apple to be."

    But not against patenting it and selling the license to others to use.

    --
    "If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
  18. what? by SuperDre · · Score: 1

    how in the world can one get a patent on something like this......... this really shows how broken the patent system is.. But then again, Apple has given a lot of money to the patentofficers to get their patents approved...

  19. It's about profit... by QuietLagoon · · Score: 0
    Watch what Apple does, not what Apple execs say they are going to do.

    .
    I have to wonder if this decision to monetize customer data is an indication that Apple sees its profit growth slowing down, and Apple is now looking for new revenue streams to make up the difference?

  20. It's a me-me by leathered · · Score: 1

    Know Your Meme

    --
    For all intensive porpoises your a bunch of rediculous loosers
  21. Based on credit/balance, really? by ArcadeMan · · Score: 2

    Maybe the companies will start sending me money!

    --
    Get free satoshi (Bitcoin) and Dogecoins
  22. The Elephant in the room by sjames · · Score: 2

    What makes Apple think it would be any of their damned business what my available credit balance is?

    1. Re:The Elephant in the room by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Well, based on credit information, they can probably get some idea of income. Now they can sell access to you based upon your income. So if you're income isn't that great, Mercedes doesn't have to waste money advertising to you.

    2. Re:The Elephant in the room by sjames · · Score: 1

      I get why they want the info, but I don't get why they think they have any right to know.

    3. Re:The Elephant in the room by radarskiy · · Score: 1

      What makes you think that Apple has your available credit balance or is trying to get it?

    4. Re:The Elephant in the room by sjames · · Score: 1

      Did you read TFA at all?

    5. Re:The Elephant in the room by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Simple, so they can have a run-time history of available funds. That way they can strike with the "Buy 5 iphones for the price of 5 iphones" advertisement just in time.

    6. Re:The Elephant in the room by sjames · · Score: 1

      Again, that's why they might WANT the data but provides them no RIGHT to it. My credit and bank balance are for me to know, not them. The closest they get to a right to know is a simple boolean: Do I have enough credit left on my card for the thing I am trying to buy from them right now.

  23. Just another example of by no-body · · Score: 1

    disenfranchising people of their own power to decide for themselves.

    The decisions are already made _for_ people what to look, get offered and is "good" for THEM instead of allowing the individuals it themselves from a choice based on their own unique criteria on an unbiased search tool.

    Wishful thinking, sure....

    One example I came across recently in justifying the removal of Android App Ops quoting restaurant search and GPS location to serve the right result in one's area.

    Total hogwash! If one wants a restaurant close by, one would type in "Greek restaurant" near - no GPS location for any search app would be needed.
    Enabling the GPS location will allow other factors outside of the individual to influence the result.

    What tis this Apple-Shit doing with one's bank balance info? Modifying based on criteria totally outside of one's control, creating and storing more complex data about one, for what?

    Creating a totally hypnotized society since this reality is eaten with cell-web access nowadays from early childhood on without any critical thinking ability.

    Welcome to the automaton anthill under construction!

       

    1. Re:Just another example of by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm totally confused; how the hell does Apple (or any other retail consumer company) have access to your bank account balance?

    2. Re:Just another example of by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Are you drunk?

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  24. op-in! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh, goody! Price hikes across the board, discounts if I let them look at my bank account info. I can't convince my bank to let a family member make a deposit or even a balance inquiry, but somehow it's okay for a corporation to know what I have in savings, checking, credit card balances, loan balances, etc. Seems legit.

  25. misleading headline by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    it is based on your CREDIT (which anyone can check) not *bank account balance*, which if the bank is doing its job is not possible to snoop. Typical attention whore headline.

    Ok mod me to oblivion

  26. Impact on credit scores by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 1

    IIRC, too many credit checks can impact a credit score; so what happens if an app checks it repeatedly to serve up adds? Not saying Apple will do this, but that could be a potentially problematic downside if someone's credit score goes down and result sin denied credit o higher interest rates.

    --
    I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
    1. Re:Impact on credit scores by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      I don't think we're talking about credit scores, though. We're talking about Credit Cards and available credit. Apple has this information through ApplePay. All they have to do is share it with the iAd team. Fortunately, they'd never do that.

  27. Facebook already does this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Facebook allows advertisers to build segments based on recent credit activity (I.e. applying for credit, mortgage payment, etc...). And while they don't reveal the details to advertisers, for obvious reasons, I can only assume they have access to actual credit balances based on the other criteria they offer advertisers.

  28. you know you're desperate when by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... you have no credit margin, only $6 left and you spend them on pizza because a fucking ad tells you to.

  29. Available credit on a debit card by tepples · · Score: 3, Interesting

    the patent is for available credit, not bank account balance.

    I thought if you were to query "available credit" on a debit card, you'd get the balance of the checking account it draws from.

    1. Re:Available credit on a debit card by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      the patent is for available credit, not bank account balance.

      I thought if you were to query "available credit" on a debit card, you'd get the balance of the checking account it draws from.

      Not unless a debit card becomes credit. The money on a debit card is money you already have.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    2. Re:Available credit on a debit card by tepples · · Score: 1

      My reasoning is that "amount available to spend" on a debit card is how much money you have, and "amount available to spend" on a credit card is your credit limit.

    3. Re:Available credit on a debit card by Panoptes · · Score: 1

      "My reasoning is that "amount available to spend" on a debit card is how much money you have, and "amount available to spend" on a credit card is your credit limit."

      Wrong, I'm afraid. My UK bank account provides me with an automatic overdraft limit, plus an 'emergency' short-term (high interest) excess overdraft. So when I go shopping with my debit card the 'amount available to spend' includes the unused portion of my overdraft limit.

  30. Not that uefull by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think this (not really new) idea is everything Apple might think it is. Just because I have $10,000 in available credit does not mean I have $10,000 available to spend. I might be saving that for an emergency, like major house/car/medical expenses. I might be paying that card down so I can take the family on an overseas vacation. If I get ads for stuff costing more than a couple hundred bucks would be the same as getting ads for Tesla cars, it would be WAY outside my budget despite what my available credit says.

    I don't want to see advertising at all, no matter if I can afford the item or not. Remember, the whole point of advertising is to try and sell you something that you neither want nor need. And the whole point of ads on the Internet (or cell phone) is to push malware onto your system.

  31. Unlike copyrights, patents expire. by tepples · · Score: 2

    Haven't you ever heard the conspiracy theories about stuff like Goodyear buying the patent for a 100,000 mile tire? Or GM buying the patent for a 100 mpg car?

    How old are those theories? If they're more than 20 years old, then they should be running into one key difference between patents and copyrights: Unlike copyrights, patents expire.

  32. Who buys Apple products? by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    So is anybody still buying Apple products here? I never have and never will.

    1. Re:Who buys Apple products? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I have a MBP and a iPod. Once in a blue moon I use the iPod. I have not made enough use of the MBP to be comfortable with the OS so it is seldom used unless I have to try to figure out something on behalf of my niece who is a bit of a fanatic but a bit clueless. I imagine that the OS X is good, it seems to be fine, but I simply have not used it enough and am more comfortable in Linux and Windows. Finding options and customizing things is not easy for me and I do not feel the urge to search for everything. I also do not like an OS without a real taskbar. So, yeah... I have some Apple products but I do not use them.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  33. Soft and hard credit inquiries by tepples · · Score: 1

    IIRC, too many credit checks can impact a credit score

    A credit check can be a "soft inquiry" or a "hard inquiry". Pulling your own credit report through a service like Annual Credit Report, Credit Karma, or Discover FICO is a soft inquiry, as is a lender sending you a "pre-selected" offer. They do not affect credit score. A hard inquiry happens when you've already applied for a loan and the bank is making a final decision on whether to lend. Though hard inquiries spread out over the course of several months indicate a risky borrower who overrelies on credit, multiple hard inquiries for a secured loan within two weeks are scored as one inquiry because they indicate shopping around.

    1. Re:Soft and hard credit inquiries by pamar · · Score: 1

      Not only that, but it would be trivial for Apple to "cache" the credit score as part of their infrastructure - so that even if you ask for "what is Pamar's rating" a billion times, Apple has "asked" only once for fiscal year or whatever.

      Considering that you are not using the credit rating for actual moving money around, but only to show or not a different type of advert, even if your credit rating has changed in the last 3 months it's no big deal.

  34. George Orwell was wrong by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Big Brother is not the government but just a Harvard MBA.

  35. Wake up people! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apple is just as bad as anyone else. Do you not read the financials about how much money Apple makes on consumers? Tim Cook is not a visionary, he is a figures man. He is only concerned about Apple making as much money as possible for Apple and their stock holders. Its why Apple did the whole Apple watch thing. Just to sell a few more iPhones and make some more money off gullible Apple fans. Don't remember how Apple came up with that Bluetooth targeted ad system in iPhones? Have you not received texts going by one of their stores? This is just the next step.

  36. Rights? by sad_ · · Score: 1

    Who gave them the right to view my bank account balance?
    Probably will be hidden in one of their EULA's.

    --
    On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
  37. The only way Apple can get my credit limits by thedavidcathey · · Score: 1

    Would be by me using Apple Pay. So, what's in your iPhone?

  38. lol shooting yourself in the foot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    another real good reason to leave apple product at the apple store

  39. Dear Slashdot by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    WILL YOU TAKE THE FUCKING FULL PAGE KROGER AD OFF YOUR FUCKING SITE. i WANT TO READ THE FUCKING ARTICLE NOT THE FUCKING KROGER AD FOR A STORE 50 MILES AWAY. THE ONLY WAY OUT OF THE AD IS TO CLOSE THE FUCKING BROWSER.

    DAMN I WISH GEEKS STILL RAN THIS SITE...