Slashdot Mirror


The Weird History of the Microsoft Windows Start Button

Gamoid writes: Windows 3.1 was so complicated that even a Boeing propulsion scientist couldn't figure out how to open a word processor. A behavioral scientist, who once worked with BF Skinner at Harvard, was brought in to Microsoft to figure out what was going wrong — and he came up with the Start button, for which he holds the patent today. It's a weird and cool look at how simple ideas aren't obvious.

195 of 270 comments (clear)

  1. Um excuse me? by fustakrakich · · Score: 3, Interesting

    What's that thing over there on the Mac's menu bar?

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Um excuse me? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Maybe I meant pre OS X

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:Um excuse me? by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      I used to use old macs, and I now use modern OSX and I don't see anything like the start button. Maybe all the top finder menu entries together form something like the start button.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    3. Re: Um excuse me? by shitzu · · Score: 1

      Well you used to launch programs from the Apple menu. Which the guy in the article "invented" a while later. It has been replaced in OSX by now with spotlight and dock.

    4. Re:Um excuse me? by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      The Dock is a bit like the Start button and task bar combined, especially if the Applications folder is in it.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
  2. The only intuitive interface is the nipple by musmax · · Score: 4, Informative

    and it will be forever great.

    1. Re:The only intuitive interface is the nipple by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Informative
      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:The only intuitive interface is the nipple by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 4, Funny

      The only intuitive interface is the nipple and it will be forever great.

      ... for those who don't scroll much.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    3. Re:The only intuitive interface is the nipple by MobileTatsu-NJG · · Score: 1

      Right, because nothing screams extreme sexual exhaustion like going to a nerd site to declare your loyalty to the 'clit mouse'.

      --

      "I like to lick butts!" by MobileTatsu-NJG (#32700246) (Score:5, Informative)

    4. Re:The only intuitive interface is the nipple by Snotnose · · Score: 1

      Are you suggesting I suck at Bill Gate's teat, Ballmer's, or the new guy's?

      Frankly, if it's any of the above I'll switch to Linux in a heartbeat.

    5. Re:The only intuitive interface is the nipple by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Funny

      You need to teach your baby to use the nipple, too.

      I wonder how many of these nipple-challanged babies grow up and go to work for Microsoft.

    6. Re:The only intuitive interface is the nipple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nipples are like remote controlled cars.
      They're intended for kids, but it's always the dads who end up playing with them.

    7. Re: The only intuitive interface is the nipple by Sique · · Score: 1, Informative

      Actually, no, they don't. And yes, I have been present at a child's birth, and because my wife was sedated and lost huge amounts of blood during the sectio, for the first few hours, I was holding the child. And no, he didn't start to search for a nipple all by himself, I actually had to hold the baby bottle right to his mouth until he grabbed it with his lips and was starting to suck on it.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    8. Re: The only intuitive interface is the nipple by shitzu · · Score: 2

      You are talking about a bottle, we are talking about a human nipple. They might seem functionally equivalent to you, but not for the baby. They go for human ones like magnets - at least my two ones did. But maybe its inherited - i do not care much about bottles with bits of silicon either, but female bosom is an entirely different cup of tea so to speak.

    9. Re:The only intuitive interface is the nipple by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      AKA "GHB" which is also a date rape drug.

      Holy shit, did Selker think about where he was putting the thing?

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    10. Re: The only intuitive interface is the nipple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      > They go for human ones like magnets

      Well, who doesn't? :)

    11. Re: The only intuitive interface is the nipple by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Men are much, much better at that after age...of, 12 or so give or take a few years.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    12. Re: The only intuitive interface is the nipple by lowen · · Score: 2

      Out of my five children, only one 'intuitively' took to breastfeeding. With the first one my wife badly wanted to try breastfeeding, but our son just simply would not latch on. The hospital even brought in the local lactation consultant (who's very existence speaks volumes) but no latch-on.

  3. wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Windows 3.1 wasn't complicated at all. What kind of moron thinks otherwise??

    1. Re:wtf? by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Informative

      Windows 3.1 wasn't complicated at all. What kind of moron thinks otherwise??

      A Boeing propulsion scientist.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    2. Re:wtf? by preaction · · Score: 2

      An academic: Someone educated beyond their intelligence.

      That joke aside, one does have to learn to use a tool. The Start menu made it easier to use the tool.

    3. Re:wtf? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      But now imagine if all your computer interaction before Win 3.1 had been on the command line?

    4. Re:wtf? by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      What a great imagination, life would be so great!

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:wtf? by NeoMorphy · · Score: 1

      Windows 3.1 wasn't complicated at all. What kind of moron thinks otherwise??

      I'm guessing it's the same person who provoked a study into whether the instructions for using a condom required a college degree.

      What nobody realized is that Boeing pawned a janitor off as a scientist and Microsoft didn't catch on. Having used their products, I can honestly see that happening.

    6. Re:wtf? by unixisc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Until it got changed in Windows 8

    7. Re:wtf? by ISoldat53 · · Score: 1

      I made a living building DOS menus.

    8. Re:wtf? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      > But now imagine if all your computer interaction before Win 3.1 had been on the command line?

      Well, it was not. Young'ums might think we're talking about the Paleozoic, but a lot of things already had happened before Windows.

      Menus already existed in many forms and fashions, games had "Options" screens and purported different paradigms for interaction. I vaguely remember games with scenes in which a desktop would have elements (photos, notes, etc.).

      What didn't exist back then was interaction -- and even that came before Windows with the first BBSes.

      For an example of a typical menu of that time, see the Apple Pascal Welcome screen at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Pascal

      Visicalc had a similar feature with a top screen menu bar (a la Apple) which would be called with the "/" keyboard shortcut. It was much faster to use than Excel.

      I found this excerpt particularly enlightening:

      "If users couldn't figure out where to go in Windows, Oran says, it was a design failure. So instead, he thought to give them one single button to push that led them to everything, the same way he had to teach the chimps, button by button, how to use software.

      Originally, Oran says, it was called the "System" button, and it lived at the top of the screen. But for whatever reason, maybe because it sounded too technical, users in these Windows studies wouldn't click a System button no matter what.

      But once they renamed it the "Start" button, people understood it intuitively."

      It's important to know that the world had a different mindset at the time: people enjoyed using jargon, ordinary folks were not supposed to understand computers. A lot of terminology also referred to abstractions far removed from daily realities (a stack, a register, CRTs, etc.).

      The idea behind the WIMP model pioneered at Xerox was making computing intuitive -- and Jobs was on the same frequency -- more than anyone. He had ideas about making computers as homely as TV sets (Apple II ads already conveyed that idea).

      Microsoft was (and _is_) a follower and the idea was "putting a PC on every home". Compare that with "making a computer which goes beyond the users expectations" (the Apple way).

      The word "System" for menu evokes the "professional" idea. This is enough to scare non-IT folks. Maybe there's a lesson here for Linux, since everybody who wants to have success with it (Google, Canonical etc.) avoids that name like the plague.

      For the record, my difficulty with Windows 3.x was about display modes, not operation. Then again, I was previously a programmer...

    9. Re:wtf? by ArchieBunker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He most likely has a PhD in his field. He is the master of that one specific area. Everything else is foreign and complicated to him.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    10. Re: wtf? by avatar+avatar · · Score: 2

      Kinda like most devs and the concept of HCI/UX ;-)

    11. Re:wtf? by MozeeToby · · Score: 1

      Alternatively, you don't get stuff done at NASA by jumping in and trying things when you don't know what stuff does. Setting someone like that down in front of a system they've never used before isn't going to produce a flurry of activity.

  4. Difficulty by nmb3000 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Windows 3.1 was so complicated that even a Boeing propulsion scientist couldn't figure out how to open a word processor.

    What a useless statement. An astrophysicist might have had a difficult time setting his VCR to record All My Children while he was away at work. Just because someone is an expert in one field doesn't make them all-knowing.

    Raymond has also posted several articles about the history of the Explorer interface, including one about the origin of the Start Button and one about the taskbar.

    --
    "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
    /)
    1. Re:Difficulty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It doesn't take a Brain Surgeon to know that.

    2. Re:Difficulty by gweilo8888 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Mod parent up. For goodness sakes, I was 17 years old when Windows 3.x first came out, had precisely zero training of any kind, and figured out how to use its GUI all by myself in the space of about ten seconds. It's not just a useless statement, it's also a vast and very obvious over-exaggeration.

    3. Re:Difficulty by Inferno+Vulpix · · Score: 2

      True, being an expert in one field doesn't make you an expert in all fields, but it does state quite clearly that the person is an educated and intelligent person. The defense the programmers were using was that the OS was easy to understand for intelligent people, and that only idiots would have trouble. When an intelligent person had trouble, that defense fell apart.

    4. Re:Difficulty by MacTO · · Score: 2

      Educated? Perhaps. Intelligent? I have serious questions.

      Any computer requires some training to use, or at least the willingness to experiment. In the Windows 3.1 era, this meant training people how to use a mouse to click on little pictures (i.e. icons) or words (e.g. buttons or menus). If you tried a similar experiment with a person from that era, only using the tablets of today, you'd have much the same problem since they wouldn't recognize how you interact with the system.

      Actually, compared to the systems of today, Windows 3.1 was downright intuitive. Even if you minimized the Program Manager, you would see the Program Manager icon at the bottom of the screen. Ditto for minimizing any other window. Compare that to the modern Start Menu. People know to click on it because of what it looks like and/or where it is located on the screen. Or consider tablets, which frequently rely on gestures (i.e. there is no visual representation of what you're supposed to do). The only reason why people can use those interfaces is because they have learned how to use them.

      As for that "rocket scientist", they were either told what to do and didn't retain that knowledge or they weren't told what to do. In the former case, I'd question their supposedly superior intelligence. In the latter case, well, the test was half baked.

    5. Re:Difficulty by mcrbids · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Being an astrophysicist doesn't make you at all qualified to use a VCR. (Wait, who uses VCRs anymore?! I haven't touched one in almost two decades!) But it *does* mean that we're not talking about an idiot. And if you're trying to target your product to be usable for the average joe, and an astrophysicist can't figure it out, you can assume that you missed your target.

      --
      I have no problem with your religion until you decide it's reason to deprive others of the truth.
    6. Re:Difficulty by GauteL · · Score: 3, Informative

      On the contrary. If you read the article, nobody said being a Boing propulsion scientist makes him all-knowing. The statement was as a response to a programmer's exclamation that "our customers are morons!". The fact that he was a propulsion scientist is a strong indication that he was not a moron, thus making it reasonable to have a look to see if perhaps it wasn't the users there was a problem with.

      The goal of the project was to make Windows "discoverable", in essence making it possible for the average person to figure out the most important things without attending a training course. A reasonable requirement for a commercial consumer product. The user tests demonstrated that Windows 3.1 wasn't discoverable.

    7. Re:Difficulty by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The 'tray' that Raymond describes in his second article looks very much like the Shelf from OPENSTEP 4.1, which was released just after Windows 95. I wonder if some of the NeXT people were playing with early betas of Windows 95 and, as their company CEO later quipped, started their photocopiers...

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    8. Re:Difficulty by tommeke100 · · Score: 1

      Same here. I was maybe 15-16 and had no trouble installing and using Windows 3.x at all and nobody had to teach me anything
      It had windows with obvious names that contained obvious programs. The metaphor was pretty clear and obvious....
      Sure, the guy was a rocket scientist, yeah right...

    9. Re:Difficulty by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And if you're trying to target your product to be usable for the average joe, and an astrophysicist can't figure it out, you can assume that you missed your target.

      You can assume all you like, but I'd sit that astrophysicist down and try to figure out why he couldn't understand such a simple interface, mostly shared with Unix of the day, before I'd assume that I'd made a mistake. Maybe the guy is great at math but shit at everything else? We don't all think the same way.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:Difficulty by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The 'tray' that Raymond describes in his second article looks very much like the Shelf from OPENSTEP 4.1, which was released just after Windows 95. I wonder if some of the NeXT people were playing with early betas of Windows 95 and, as their company CEO later quipped, started their photocopiers...

      Windows 95 copied NeXT's interface (the look, anyway) and not the other way around. NeXTStep goes way way back without changing much.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Difficulty by realcheese · · Score: 1

      What a useless statement. An astrophysicist might have had a difficult time setting his VCR to record All My Children while he was away at work. Just because someone is an expert in one field doesn't make them all-knowing.

      I studied Electrical Engineering. This reminded me of the time my mother in law's toilet wouldn't flush and she said "You're the engineer, fix it."

    12. Re:Difficulty by nmb3000 · · Score: 1

      Wait, who uses VCRs anymore?!

      I was trying to be kind of funny, by putting the astrophysicist in the same 1993ish timeframe as Windows 3.1. Maybe I should have made Beverly Hills 90210 the soap instead ;)

      --
      "What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
      /)
    13. Re:Difficulty by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      You are a clueless idiot.

      I bet you're too young to have ever programmed a VCR.

      It's not anything remotely comparable to what we're talking about here. If VCRs were like Win 3.1 people would have less of an excuse for their clock to be blinking at 12:00.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    14. Re:Difficulty by guruevi · · Score: 1

      I was ~8 when I used Windows 3.1 for the first time and had no problem figuring it out. It looked a lot like MacOS and XWindows, so I was pretty familiar with it. There were a number of other systems that looked similar that were GUI's for DOS before Windows 3.

      I quit using Windows a little after Windows 95 in place of Red Hat 5 (the original, not RHEL) because Windows was crashing all the time when using the network even with bog-standard hardware (an original NE2000).

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    15. Re:Difficulty by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The dock was there, but the shelf wasn't added until 4.1. 4.1 and 4.2 contained quite a number of UI changes.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  5. Somewhat less intuitive by localroger · · Score: 1

    ...in the matter of having to press START to begin the process of turning off the computer.

    --
    Brackets contain world's first nanosig, highly magnified:[.]
    1. Re: Somewhat less intuitive by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

      Well, in Windows 95/98/ME, the start button was misnamed, it should have been "Try" or "Attempt to" (but no guarantee, YMMV).

    2. Re: Somewhat less intuitive by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Especially because those were the days when any error in a Windows app would cause Windows itself to terminate by "dumping to DOS." You would never know what caused the termination, since there was no longer a Windows environment in which to display the message, just that cryptic little blinking C:>.

      Had I thought to buy a share of Apple when that happened instead of beating my head on the desk like everyone else, I would be a brazillionaire now.

    3. Re: Somewhat less intuitive by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      Using Windows 95 and 98, I don't remember it throwing me back out into DOS (or if it did, it was a relative rarity on my machine). What I remember is a BSOD popping up, but giving me the option to press a key to attempt to continue, sometimes 15 times in a row before the computer went back to working again (well, until I retried whatever had just failed and got another flurry of errors).

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    4. Re:Somewhat less intuitive by Xest · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It makes a good joke, but it's not really that unintuitive, you're basically saying Start Shutdown.

      This is in the exact same way that in Linux "shutdown now" doesn't actually shutdown now, it just begins the shutdown now. Computers don't cleanly turn off instantly, shutdown is a process that you start.

    5. Re:Somewhat less intuitive by ZombieBraintrust · · Score: 2

      lol I didn't learn that process till I ruined a computer turning it off with the power switch on the back.

    6. Re: Somewhat less intuitive by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      I remember being able to exit to DOS voluntarily, I just don't remember the entirety of Windows crashing and dropping be back. I've got a computer installed with DOS and Windows 98. It still has the option to exit to DOS. I suppose that it was Windows ME that removed that option, but I've never used ME; its reputation preceded it.

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
    7. Re: Somewhat less intuitive by khellendros1984 · · Score: 1

      I don't doubt that it's possible, and that it may be a common occurrence on some machines, but it happened rarely enough on my system that I don't have a clear memory of it happening (although even my Win98 install was put on top of DOS).

      --
      It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  6. Re:Major change? No. by PsychoSlashDot · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The total change from the Windows 3.1 Start button to the subsequent Start buttons was making the Start menu a 2-column menu, putting the contents of the former Programs menu in the left pane and putting the rest of the Start menu items in the right pane. That's it. Oh, and making the initial view not show all the Programs items but only a subset, with an extra item at the bottom to show everything in the same form as it was under the Programs menu.

    As for Win3.1 being complicated, every secretary I knew managed to get a handle on it within a few days so it couldn't have been that complicated. The only people I know of who couldn't figure out Win3.1 are the ones who to this day need repeated reminders of how to get to anything that's not directly on their desktop, so methinks the problem doesn't lie in Windows.

    Um. You know that Windows 3.1 didn't actually have a Start Button, right?

    --
    "Oh no... he found the .sig setting."
  7. Re:Major change? No. by preaction · · Score: 1

    Windows 3.1 did not have a "Start" menu. Windows 3.1 had the "Programs" folder, on an otherwise blank desktop.

  8. Prior art by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    RISC OS

  9. Re:It's not weird at all. by fustakrakich · · Score: 5, Funny

    Somebody was facing a problem. He thought about the problem.

    He looked at System 7

    He proposed a solution. It worked.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
  10. MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by tepples · · Score: 5, Informative

    System 7, introduced in 1991, had an Apple menu, which held shortcuts (called "aliases") to applications. Third-party extensions such as MenuChoice and HAM, released the following year, allowed aliases to be grouped into folders. (This is exactly the behavior that Microsoft would later implement in the "Programs" section of Windows 95's Start menu.) Apple later bought the rights to HAM and integrated it in System 7.5 (1995) under the name Apple Menu Options.

    1. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      I was kinda surprised Microsoft didn't get sued. It was pure Mac without the finesse.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by aaron4801 · · Score: 1

      One of two shareware programs I ever purchased for was the far-too-generically-named "Plug-In For Windows" by Plannet Crafters.
      First introduced in September 1992, it was a Start Menu-like interface for Windows 3.x, only without the Start button itself. A right-click on the desktop would bring up the menu, optionally with nested folders. If Apple had any patents on the functionality, they should have nipped the menu-style interface in the butt long before Win95. By the time Microsoft got a hold of it, it was pretty generic.

    3. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Informative

      I was kinda surprised Microsoft didn't get sued. It was pure Mac without the finesse.

      Did you sleep through the 1990s? Microsoft got sued.

    4. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

      Did you sleep through the 1990s?

      Yeah, I kinda did. I was working the night shift the whole time. And now I remember something about them kissing and making up in '97... I was watching the Bulls then, well, not then, it was August..

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    5. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by MacTO · · Score: 5, Informative

      The Apple menu wasn't quite the Start Menu. It was similar in the sense that you could add programs in it to use it as an application launcher, but that was simply a consequence of the history of the Macintosh system software. Older versions of the system software placed device driver like desk accessories in the Apple menu. With System 7, those desk accessories became normal applications and redesigned Apple menu was changed to take that into account. Indeed, I'd be surprised if Apple intended it to be used as a generic application launcher.

      In contrast, the Start Menu was designed to contain every application on the system. This means that it was a genuine starting point, rather than a place to access commonly used applications. The designs even reflect that. With the Apple menu, you were given a menu with analogs to the old desk accessories and you had to add anything else yourself. With the Start Menu, you are given a menu that contains all of the applications on the system and you have to removed unwanted stuff yourself.

    6. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by dbIII · · Score: 5, Funny

      Later on I'm surprised the Win7 advertisements didn't go like this:
      "I'm a PC and looking like a Mac was my idea."

    7. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by default+luser · · Score: 2

      The other absolutely amazing thing they introduced in Windows 95 was the shortcut.

      By forcing people to use them, you allowed any combination of multiple links to the same file in any location on your system. It made it so much easier for people to accept a concept like the Start Menu, while the actual programs were stored elsewhere.

      It also had the upside of not making it easy to delete or lose files when clicking on or dragging items in the GUI.

      --

      Man is the animal that laughs.
      And occasionally whores for Karma.

    8. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by dcollins117 · · Score: 5, Informative

      The other absolutely amazing thing they introduced in Windows 95 was the shortcut.

      Otherwise known as soft links or symbolic links, which DEC and RDOS have had since 1978.

      I'll assume when you say "they introduced" you meant to say "they copied" in the same manner as MSDOS is really a clone of CP/M and the Windows GUI was copied from Apple, etc.

    9. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      It's so much easier not to say anything.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    10. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

      The Apple Menu inverts the Windows paradigm. Your Mac's desktop lists the apps installed in the filesystem (in fact the desktop is pretty much the root of the filesystem), the Apple Menu has your shortcuts. Whereas in Windows your desktop has your shortcuts, and the Start menu lists the apps installed in the filesystem.

      This is a consequence of how the two OSes started out. MacOS was coded from the start as a GUI, so logically the desktop is the root of your filesystem. Windows was originally a shell running on DOS. So all your files were stored in the DOS filesystem, and originally the desktop just had shortcuts to your program and data files. (OS X complicated this somewhat since it is now a GUI running on top of a modified version of BSD Unix.)

    11. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

      On the basis of this perhaps Microsoft can sue Samsung?

    12. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by countach · · Score: 1

      The Start Menu never ever ever contained every application on the system. It only ever included ones that either MS thought would be good there, or else that Application vendors thought would be good there. (Yes, vendors provide many little apps in their packages that they don't put in there.).

    13. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by CronoCloud · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Otherwise known as soft links or symbolic links, which DEC and RDOS have had since 1978.

      and in Unix even before that

    14. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by jargonburn · · Score: 2

      Otherwise known as soft links or symbolic links, which DEC and RDOS have had since 1978.

      No, not the same thing (though similar in purpose). A shortcut is a file whose content is parsed by the software/OS to determine the location of the target, while a symbolic/soft link is a filesystem object that points to target.

      One type is more elegant for most purposes (imo), and the other is/was heavily used by Windows.

    15. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by fibonacci8 · · Score: 2

      And then offstage a Xerox representive coughs, walks onstage, announces who he is, punches each one in turn, and storms off, pissed.

      --
      Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
    16. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by TheRaven64 · · Score: 5, Informative

      There are a few differences. First, symlinks are a property of the filesystem. This means that the normal filesystem APIs just work with them and you need special APIs for things that care about whether it's a link or not. In contrast, shortcuts are just another kind of file and everything that wants to follow them needs to know what the target is. Second, shortcuts contain a lot more information than just a path: they include the path to the destination file, an icon, the set of command-line arguments to pass, and some other flags. For example, I used to have a load of different shortcuts to the WinQuake (and, later, GLQuake) executable that all had different -game flags, for launching different mods. Many of them also had different icons, if the mod came with its own icon. You can't do that with symlinks.

      The closest thing to symlinks on *NIX systems is .desktop files.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    17. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The closest thing to symlinks on *NIX systems

      And, of course, I meant 'to shortcuts' there.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    18. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by aix+tom · · Score: 1

      Of course the implementation differed. With a symbolic link all the "work" is done by the file system. A program can say "open that" and the OS returns the actual file the link points to.

      With the Microsoft shortcut, the opening application itself had to know how to open and handle *.lnk files to find the actual file.

    19. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by TomGreenhaw · · Score: 1

      Nah, he wasn't sleeping because he didn't exist yet.

      --
      Greed is the root of all evil.
    20. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by hudsucker · · Score: 4, Insightful

      No, not the same thing (though similar in purpose). A shortcut is a file whose content is parsed by the software/OS to determine the location of the target, while a symbolic/soft link is a filesystem object that points to target.

      Ah, so Windows 95 shortcuts weren't copying Unix, it was copying Mac OS aliases. Which were introduced in System 7, in 1991. Except that aliases still worked even if the target was renamed or moved to a different location, while shortcuts break.

    21. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Whereas in Windows your desktop has your shortcuts, and the Start menu lists the apps installed in the filesystem.

      No.

      This is a consequence of how the two OSes started out. MacOS was coded from the start as a GUI, so logically the desktop is the root of your filesystem. Windows was originally a shell running on DOS. So all your files were stored in the DOS filesystem, and originally the desktop just had shortcuts to your program and data files.

      OK, also no.

      On the mac, the desktop was always for doing work. On the PC, the desktop didn't exist until Windows 95 (ignoring non-Windows operating systems) because in Windows 3.1 it was just a place to store icons of running programs. It wasn't a desktop as we know it, where you can put anything, like on the Mac. On the mac, the desktop was useful before the OS even had shortcuts, known as aliases. You could drag stuff there from your hard drive, and the system would remember that those icons were supposed to show up on the desktop.

      On the PC, the start menu most certainly does not "list the apps installed in the filesystem". Just like the Mac, if you want to find that, you have to dig down into the HDD. The start menu on the PC contains shortcuts exclusively by default. You can stick anything you want in there, of course. As for the desktop, the computer no longer even appears there. By default, the only things on the desktop are the trash, shortcuts which can be placed there by programs which want to seem important, and any documents you've saved there... plus any shovelware shat there by any OEM you may have purchased your PC from.

      Before Windows had a desktop as we know it, it had two primary interfaces; a program manager and a file manager. The program manager only showed shortcuts (.PIFs) and the file manager would show you the full filesystem view. From there you could run .exe files. I don't actually remember if the program manager would run a PIF, ISTR that it would but I am not sure any more and do not care enough to find out. The program manager became the start menu, always available at the click of a button and ordered with folders and subfolders instead of single-depth "program groups". The file manager became explorer and provides the desktop (which became just another file view) as well as folder windows.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    22. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And, of course, I meant 'to shortcuts' there.

      .desktop files provide the full range of functionality which came from a .PIF and then some, but shell scripts provided everything but the standardized icon and descriptive text output formats before either thing was a thing.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    23. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Hell, the Mac finds links in the trash! You have to empty it to make it forget. Same for application preferences.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    24. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Well, it is a Darwin GUI... Just as UNIX-y as Linux

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    25. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      No. The problem is that they COPIED it badly.

      Another problem is Microsoft invented anything.

      It's much like the start menu itself. It's nothing more than an anchored cascading menu. This was being done by a lot of people on different operating systems (including Windows) before this "invention".

      Perfect example of a bogus patent.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    26. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      Nope.

      MacOS is a variant of OpenStep (not-unix).

      Linux shares the same graphics subsystem as other Unixen use thus allowing for portability of GUI window managers, desktops, and applications across Unixen.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    27. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by jedidiah · · Score: 2

      I've fascinated that a "rocket scientist" would have problems dealing with the Win 3.1 "desktop". Sure, it wasn't great but it wasn't that hard to deal with.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    28. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by macs4all · · Score: 2

      And then offstage a Xerox representive coughs, walks onstage, announces who he is, punches each one in turn, and storms off, pissed.

      If you are referring to the Research that Apple PURCHASED from Xerox PARC, then I can't see his justificaton to punch "Apple".

    29. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by macs4all · · Score: 1

      The other absolutely amazing thing they introduced in Windows 95 was the shortcut.

      Of course, that wasn't a unique idea of Microsoft's

      Apple added them in System 7, which was introduced in May, 1991, quite a few years before Win95 debuted (and probably even before it was even a serious development project), and UNIX had the similar Symbolic Links who-knows-how-long before that.

    30. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by macs4all · · Score: 1

      With the Microsoft shortcut, the opening application itself had to know how to open and handle *.lnk files to find the actual file.

      Having had lots of experience with both MacOS Aliases (and OS X Aliases), and Windows' Shortcuts, I can tell you that the Order of Robustness, from most Robust to Least is:

      1. MacOS Aliases. They are EXTREMELY hard to "orphan".

      2. OS X Aliases (which for some unknown reason are NOT just SymLinks!!!!)

      3. Windows Shortcuts

    31. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And then offstage a Xerox representive coughs, walks onstage, announces who he is, punches each one in turn, and storms off, pissed.

      Ummm, the Jeremy Clarkson discussion is over there in the next article.

    32. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by macs4all · · Score: 1

      The Apple Menu inverts the Windows paradigm.

      You have your history backwards. The Apple Menu preceded the Windows Start Menu by nearly a Decade.

    33. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by Mantrid42 · · Score: 1

      Windows GUI was copied from Apple

      Which was copied from Xerox PARC.

    34. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      I said Darwin (OS X's DOS) is UNIX-y. The GUI still rides on top. Don't know if anybody has run Darwin without the GUI. Can't run DOS anymore without its GUI.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    35. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by macs4all · · Score: 1

      "Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."

      You're right; there is more than one way to look at it. The one where the facts dictate the conclusion, and your way, where Apple must always be Teh Evilz! Rather than your bullshit "analogy", it's more like I called you up, asked if I could come look at your TV with an eye to purchasing it, then came over, looked at the TV, and wrote you a check for it, which you accepted, then left with the TV.

      BIG difference.

    36. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      That's funny, because aliases on the Mac *combine* those two concepts (or at least can).

      For example, they can contain both information to track a file even as it moves around (whose content is parsed by the software/OS to determine the location of the target) and while not exactly a filesystem object, can contain the inode too (and whatever equivalent was used pre-OS X).

    37. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by Lisias · · Score: 1

      ditto. :-)

      --
      Lisias@Earth.SolarSystem.OrionArm.MilkyWay.Local.Virgo.Universe.org
    38. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Hey! You ever work graveyard for ten years? The guy asked a question! Alright? I was probably at a Cubs game when the announcement came over the wire (I would have to check to see if they played at home that day), or I was watching Munster reruns. Things get a little fuzzy. I'm sorry!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    39. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Which was copied from Xerox PARC.

      Correction: Which was derived from (and greatly expanded upon) concepts seen during a tour of Xerox PARC that were *paid for*.

    40. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by fph+il+quozientatore · · Score: 1

      shortcuts contain a lot more information than just a path: they include the path to the destination file, an icon, the set of command-line arguments to pass, and some other flags. For example, I used to have a load of different shortcuts to the WinQuake (and, later, GLQuake) executable that all had different -game flags, for launching different mods. Many of them also had different icons, if the mod came with its own icon. You can't do that with symlinks.

      Wrong. You can. Several UNIX executables change their behaviour at runtime depending on the filename of the symlink they are being called from. For instance, in a normal installation of Busybox, many system commands such as ls, mv, cd, cat... are symlinked to the same busybox binary.

      --
      My first program:

      Hell Segmentation fault

    41. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      This requires the program to be explicitly written that way. Gcc and clang also do this, to detect whether they're invoked as C or C++ compilers, and clang will detect a target triple if it's the compiler invocation name prefix. This just goes in argv[0] though - you can't modify the other arguments from a shortcut. It would be really useful to be able to add things like --sysroot=/some/path and -msoft-float to a symlink so that you had a single cc that you could invoke as a cross compiler, but currently the only way to do this is with a tiny shell script that execs the compiler with the correct flags.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    42. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The problem with shell scripts for this kind of thing is that they're a Turing-complete language. This makes it very hard to present to the user what they actually do. .BAT files on DOS / Windows provided that functionality too, but unless you aggressively restrict yourself to a subset of the shell language it's very hard to check a .sh / .bat file and see exactly what command is going to be invoked.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    43. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      .BAT files on DOS / Windows provided that functionality too, but unless you aggressively restrict yourself to a subset of the shell language it's very hard to check a .sh / .bat file and see exactly what command is going to be invoked.

      Almost. There's no way to prevent command.com (or cmd.exe) from popping up a window when you run a batch file without using the shortcut settings. Whereas on X, you don't get GUI output unless you explicitly ask for it.

      unless you aggressively restrict yourself to a subset of the shell language it's very hard to check a .sh / .bat file and see exactly what command is going to be invoked.

      Hence comments

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    44. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by macs4all · · Score: 1

      Except Apple never paid Xerox a dime.

      You're right. It was an all-stock deal.

      Here is the most complete telling of the story, in the words of those who were actually there, that I have ever seen. If you're really interested in the facts.

      So, my counter-question to those who still insist that Apple somehow ripped-off Xerox PARC, is: "If Apple ripped off Xerox, did Xerox rip off SRI and Doug Englebert?"

    45. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Under Windows you can create shortcuts to bat files. Thus e.g. a shortcut to glquake, with Quake guy icon that changes gamma to 1.2, launches the game at 1024x768 etc., changes gamma to 1.0 (back to desktop)

      So you can do whatever and it's easy! (at least until and including XP)

      Under linux you can create a .desktop that runs a shell script too, but it feels more like admin work than everyday user job. It's also limited (why can the file manager create them on the desktop but not in a file manager window? What about that other file manager that can't create them whatsoever? How to get rid of that annoying choice dialog when launching a shell script from the GUI? Do I need to run gnome-terminal -c crap.sh, gnome-terminal -e crap.sh or gnome-terminal crap.sh, with or without quoiting, or /path/crap.sh? bash crap.sh?)

    46. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Shortcuts breaking is a feature. It makes it simple to understand : just a reference to the last known location of some data.

      What if it was all dynamic and even directly represented the underlying data : does that mean that if I drag them to trash, then my data is deleted? Crap.

      Please keep things simple. Windows 95 shortcuts are simple. Auto-fixing dynamic indexed (whatever) things with special casing to guard me against disasters, that's complex and that sucks. Even command line *nix is a bit bad : how come rm symlink_name deletes the symlink not the file? Yes it's nice that the file wasn't deleted, and the symlink feature is sometimes useful but it's weird. Kind like Apple's dragging a floppy disk icon to the trash.

    47. Re:MenuChoice and HAM (1992) by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      The start menu was very powerful though, with file management features built-in. At least from Windows 95 + Internet Explorer additions or Windows 98. Drag'n'drop (internal and external), deletion and sorting aren't found in every menu, to this day linux application menus tend to require a helper program or config file editing.

  11. Boo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Speaking of old shit. Where's my damn turbo button? I miss that thing so much. Sure it's useless today or maybe not. I could hook it up to the UEFI leads so I can access the bios without rebooting.

    1. Re:Boo by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      I remember that, you go from plodding along to holy fucking shit! You never saw a computer crash so fast...!

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    2. Re:Boo by k6mfw · · Score: 1

      Where's my damn turbo button? I miss that thing so much.

      I miss it as well. I remember it didn't seem to do much of anything but it made me feel like a Viper pilot on BSG (original series).

      --
      mfwright@batnet.com
  12. Start to stop on Super NES by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    On the Nintendo Entertainment System, players pressed the controller's Start button to pause (that is, stop) the game. By the Super Nintendo Entertainment System, many games were adding a quit option to the pause menu, so Start to stop was becoming believable.

    1. Re:Start to stop on Super NES by maestroX · · Score: 1

      On the Nintendo Entertainment System, players pressed the controller's Start button to pause (that is, stop) the game. By the Super Nintendo Entertainment System, many games were adding a quit option to the pause menu, so Start to stop was becoming believable.

      The button is like toggling on/off or braking, same system is found on cassette decks/cd players with play/pause.
      Very simple and intuitive.

    2. Re:Start to stop on Super NES by tepples · · Score: 1

      Think back to the Konami code: BABAUDBALRBA

      Let me guess: You played mostly Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles II: The Arcade Game for NES. Most other games had UUDDLRLRBA.

  13. Rocket Surgery by pipingguy · · Score: 1

    "Windows 3.1 was so complicated that even a Boeing propulsion scientist couldn't figure out how to open a word processor."

    I'm not a propulsion scientist and I didn't have any problems with it. Remembering DOS commands, on the other hand...

    1. Re:Rocket Surgery by PPH · · Score: 4, Funny

      I used to work at Boeing. Some of those people are still looking for the 'Any' key.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Rocket Surgery by houghi · · Score: 1

      This comments is left blank intentionally.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    3. Re:Rocket Surgery by capntao · · Score: 1

      still haven't found the 'any' key, but i have located the 'every' key, which is pressing on the back of your keyboard, provided you have turned it upside-down on a flat surface.

  14. Re:Major change? No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Sounds like OP is comparing Windows 95 to Windows XP.

  15. Didn't the Apple Menu precede this? by Ralph+Spoilsport · · Score: 1

    I coulda sworn that prior to OSx there was this Apple Menu Item thingie and you could pretty much modify it to your heart's content. But hey - that was 1990s before CSS turned everything into rounded edges and HTML5 turned everything into swingie woo woo stuff and httprequest made bilge like Facebook possible....

    --
    Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
    1. Re:Didn't the Apple Menu precede this? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      Yes, System 7 did it first. Before the dock, everything, including open application icons, was in the menu bar up top, and the desktop icons on the left. Microsoft inverted the screen, turned the letters right side up, and called it Windows 95. Right from the beginning you could see it was a clear cut copy. Of course everybody decided to just move on in 1997...

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    2. Re:Didn't the Apple Menu precede this? by fustakrakich · · Score: 1

      the right! The Macs icons are on the right! So sorry!

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    3. Re:Didn't the Apple Menu precede this? by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 1

      Actually, they weren't there by default. Only Control Panels were there by default. Of course, all it was doing was showing the contents of the "Apple Menu Items" folder in the System Folder, so you could put an alias to whatever you wanted in there and it would work fine.

      On the other hand, Windows 95 = Macintosh '89. So there's that.

  16. Win95 original "meme" by Cito · · Score: 4, Funny

    32 bit extensions and a graphical shell [on top of] a 16 bit patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of competition.

    1. Re:Win95 original "meme" by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      What is the 8 bit operating system that was written for a 4 bit controller? The 4004 processor never had an operating system that I know of. CP/M started out on the 8080 processor. Possibly the 8008 I suppose.

      Incidentally, I spent much of the 90's writing software for 4 bit microcontrollers. In assembly language, starting up from the reset vector. Operating systems are for casuals.

    2. Re:Win95 original "meme" by bspus · · Score: 2

      The sentence is obviously inaccurate and only meant to be funny.
      32bit extensions to a 16bit OS would probably be accurate but it is funnier to go from 32 bit down by halving each time until you reach 2 bit and 1 bit where you can make the (clever IMO) puns.
      Two bit means worthless and one bit means the slightest so by that time we are no longer talking about computer bits.

      Can''t believe I'm actually making a decent effort at explaining the joke!

  17. If they're so smart... by the_almighty_gooby · · Score: 1

    ...Why doesn't windows have an end button? Equality FTW!

  18. Re:Major change? No. by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    Windows 3.1 had "Main", "Acessories", "Games", "Start up", "Application" and then any folders you made up. Kind of like an iOS or Android but better.

    Damn, I kind of miss it! Add either a Windows 7-like taskbar on the bottom, or window changing similar to Gnome 3 to make up for the shortcomings.
    Also, good old times when you didn't need a GTK2/GTK3 theme expert to create a theme for you, instead you changed the color scheme and wallpaper (or wallpaper "motif"!)
    Good freeware games and "multimedia" games like Myst. You double clicked on a game icon and it launched within two seconds and without fears of the computing crashing or the screen blinking. Under linux it still don't know if a game will blow up at me, if I'll need to do ctrl-alt-f1 to kill something and if *that* method will still work after a crash, and there's no stable userspace ABI for freeware, shareware and commercial games to target anyway.

  19. single multi-function menu button by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    TFA is a good article, but The "Start Button" was really a non-innovative, pedestrian multi-function, customizable menu button.

    I always marvel that people write thinkpieces about "The Start Button" like it was some big tech innovation.

    The "Start Button" was, essentially, just like any other "Menu" option in computing every used, it just used a different word. And to that end, ontologically speaking, "Start" was one of the most patronizing, over-simplified, dumbed down choices they could have made and still made it to production.

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
    1. Re:single multi-function menu button by aaron4801 · · Score: 1

      But "Start" was the only obvious choice after Microsoft paid off The Rolling Stones to use Start Me Up in their advertising.

    2. Re:single multi-function menu button by PPH · · Score: 1

      Soul Asylum wouldn't sell them the rights to 'Misery'.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    3. Re:single multi-function menu button by dbIII · · Score: 2

      But "Start" was the only obvious choice after Microsoft paid off The Rolling Stones to use Start Me Up in their advertising.

      "It makes a grown man cry"

      Very fitting choice.

    4. Re:single multi-function menu button by Guy+Harris · · Score: 1

      > Start Me Up

      Part of the lyrics:

      "You make a grown man cry"

      Another part of the lyrics:

      "You make a dead man cum".

      You're welcome.

    5. Re:single multi-function menu button by globaljustin · · Score: 1

      hilarious

      --
      Thank you Dave Raggett
  20. "to this very day..." by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Informative

    and he came up with the Start button, for which he holds the patent today.

    Oh, how I hate our patent system.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:"to this very day..." by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      He invented something so he got a 18-year country-wide monopoly on the idea. What's the problem?

      He invented a place on your computer desktop that you can click with a mouse and it will open a menu.

      Genius, I tell you. Who would have ever thought something like that was possible?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    2. Re:"to this very day..." by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      Oh, how I hate our patent system.

      Wait, we agree on something?!? ;-)

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    3. Re:"to this very day..." by gnupun · · Score: 1

      It's not just a button, but a button that shows a hierarchy of programs. That's new, and innovative and useful to a lot of non-computer users (i.e. users who had not used DOS or computers before).

    4. Re:"to this very day..." by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Some of those older GUI's had some nice ideas. For example in GEOS you can print documents directly from the file manager, either from the menu or you can just drag and drop documents on the printer icon.

      The Thunar file manager for XFCE doesn't have a print action by default, though you can add one with a custom action.

    5. Re:"to this very day..." by geoscodin · · Score: 1

      And now it becomes clear why Microsoft tried to get ride of the Start button -- they don't hold the patent.

    6. Re:"to this very day..." by raftpeople · · Score: 1

      No, it's wasn't "new" and "innovative". Clicking on an icon (or even text) to reveal a hierarchy of options/actions has been around forever. What exactly was "new" and "innovative"?

    7. Re:"to this very day..." by Mantrid42 · · Score: 1

      Egg of Columbus.

    8. Re:"to this very day..." by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Patent Office Lottery

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    9. Re:"to this very day..." by stooo · · Score: 1

      Not outside the USA.

      --
      aaaaaaa
  21. For which he holds the patent today by Trogre · · Score: 1

    ... only in broken jurisdictions that recognize software patents.

    --
    "Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
  22. simple ideas aren't obvious? by thegarbz · · Score: 2

    Simple ideas are obvious. The key problem is that certain fields attracts certain types of people, and certain types of people have certain traits.

    The start menu would have been obvious and intuitive to anyone who has ever dealt with people and people interactions. Sign-makers, psychologists, and pretty much everyone in the medical profession who attempts to understand how people work would have found the start menu incredibly obvious.

    Now the modern form over function UX crowd with their hipster indecipherable logos (3 dots for action, 3 lines for menu?) may be heading the wrong direction, but in a more general sense engineers have shown time and time again that on the whole we don't understand how people interact with things.

    1. Re:simple ideas aren't obvious? by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Now the modern form over function UX crowd with their hipster indecipherable logos (3 dots for action, 3 lines for menu?) may be heading the wrong direction

      To be fair... the largest smartphones are still tiny compared to the screen of any desktop computer. Also, your input is far less precise than keyboard and mouse. You have to make some sacrifices to design an interface suitable for that hardware.

      But then came Windows 8, trying to put a mobile interface on the desktop. Now that was just idiotic.

    2. Re:simple ideas aren't obvious? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Now the modern form over function UX crowd with their hipster indecipherable logos (3 dots for action, 3 lines for menu?)

      Are you talking about the "hamburger" icon?

      That goes back to the Xerox Star.

    3. Re:simple ideas aren't obvious? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Don't get me wrong. I'm not talking about the need for a button, I'm talking about the choice of the button icon, the elimination of text, and the removal of context as to what the button does. While we're at it, the introduction of a button like the menu button on a device which had dedicated menu buttons everyone was familiar with.

      I disagree with you about Windows 8. The PC is no longer the same as it was 5 years ago. Many laptops now come with touchscreens, high end ones are tablet convertibles. The way they did it was idiotic, but the Windows interface needed a face lift to accommodate a new generation of devices. Windows 10 is a good step. The live tiles are still an example of UX garbage I was talking about (Seriously I couldn't find the Facebook app in the start menu, it was replaced with a picture of a friend because he just made a comment or some crap like that), but the touch integration is finally getting where it needs to be.

  23. Re:Major change? No. by myowntrueself · · Score: 1

    Windows 3.1 did not have a "Start" menu. Windows 3.1 had the "Programs" folder, on an otherwise blank desktop.

    A lot like an iPhone. No widgets, nothing complicated, just a bunch of icons.

    --
    In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  24. Re:Major change? No. by rwa2 · · Score: 1

    Pretty much this. I sort of like the idea of a start menu, but I admit I prefer using hotkeys to Win-t a terminal or Win-e a file explorer or Win-r and run prompt.

    The funny thing is that the iOS and Android home screens work a lot more like the Win3.1 interface. And I have to admit I was pretty lost the first time I loaded an Android emulator without having been introduced to the 'swipe'.

    / former Boeing engineer

  25. Re:Major change? No. by khellendros1984 · · Score: 4, Funny

    You double clicked on a game icon and it launched within two seconds

    Well...either that, or you got a message saying that you needed to lower/raise the bit depth of your display, enable/disable some memory manager, or something similar. I kind of missed Windows 3.1 too, until I started playing with it in a VM and kept running into all the antiquated bits that I'd forgotten about...then it would make one of the classic "ding" sounds, and I'd forgive it in a wash of nostalgia.

    --
    It is pitch black. You are likely to be eaten by a grue.
  26. Re:Major change? No. by rwa2 · · Score: 1

    Yep... but remember trying to teach old folks the concept of the "double-click"? And the pain of trying and failing to keep the pointer steady between the first click and the second click, or else you accidentally flick all your precious icons and folders onto the trash? Yeah.

    It's amazing that Android and iOS home screens essentially look the same as the Win3.1 desktop... they just finally got rid of the silly double-click. And suddenly it works for grandmas. Huzzah.

  27. Skinner Operant Conditioning by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 1, Funny

    In a Skinner box, the lab rat pushes a button and gets a food pellet ... Or, an electric shock... With WinX, pressing the start button has never caused the computer to dispense food, but often the user is shocked by the results ...

    --
    Like a good neighbor, fsck is there ...
  28. This tells you everything... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This tells you everything you need to know about UX designers:

    It's something that gives Danny Oran, the ex-Microsoft interface designer who holds the patents for the Windows 95 Start menu and taskbar, mixed feelings.

    "In some ways, it's a little disappointing the same stuff is in there," Oran says.

    It's a simple, intuitive interface element that everyone who uses a PC can easily figure out how to use. Yeah, terrible tragedy, that. It's so old and crusty now, right? Who cares if people are, you know, actually getting shit done with their PC. We need some hip, new paradigm that people have to re-learn all over again.

    Seriously, what the hell? Stop screwing up interfaces that are functional and familiar! I wonder if the designer of the automobile's steering wheel would have "mixed feelings" about that interface still being used in cars nearly a century later?

    --
    Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    1. Re:This tells you everything... by maestroX · · Score: 2

      It's a simple, intuitive interface element that everyone who uses a PC can easily figure out how to use. Yeah, terrible tragedy, that. It's so old and crusty now, right?

      I remember it felt amazingly intuitive (coupled with taskbar) coming from HP-UX/SGI/win3 with their big panels, opaque minimized icons, win9 had even status on some background apps.
      Very nice, even today.

    2. Re:This tells you everything... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      win9 had even status on some background apps.

      I presume you mean win7. Actually you could get previews on XP from Nov 2009 with the "Alt-Tab Replacement Task Switcher" power toy. Win7 actually manages to show previews of minimized directdraw and direct3d windows, which is almost impressive.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    3. Re:This tells you everything... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      I think they meant to say either Win95 or Win9x.

      Incidentally, Windows 7 shows live taskbar previews of all windows equally well, not just specific windows. I presume this is because the default theme (Aero) is hardware accelerated. Perhaps it's only limited to specific windows if you disable hardware acceleration.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
  29. Re:Major change? No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    Nostalgia? I've been trying to save my final thesis paper for years:

    Abort, Retry, Fail? R
    Abort, Retry, Fail? R
    Abort, Retry, Fail? R
    Abort, Retry, Fail? R
    Abort, Retry, Fail? R ....

    *cries*

  30. A behaviorist, it figures by plopez · · Score: 1

    that explains all the nasty shocks and having to press the mouse button repeatedly to get a random reward.

    --
    putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
  31. Re:Major change? No. by Atomic+Fro · · Score: 1

    PROGMAN.EXE! They kept it in with every Windows release until XP SP1. If you really want to take a look at it again, here are is some instructions.

    --

    ==================
    Hippie Logger Jock
    ==================
  32. Re:Major change? No. by Todd+Knarr · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I'm thinking of the change from the Win95 Start menu to the Win7 one. Program Manager, however, acted pretty much as the Start button, you opened it and then navigated folders fairly logically (you wanted an application, you opened the Applications folder and looked there). The applications you used all the time you copied to the desktop so you'd have them at your fingertips. Which, I've noticed, is still how people handle common applications, with "copy it to the taskbar" a close second and the two "pin" options vying for a distant third.

    And it still remains: even secretaries had no problem grokking how to work Win3.1's desktop and programs.

  33. Win95 start button animation by Dahan · · Score: 2

    And in case you still weren't sure what to do with a button labeled "Start", the first time you booted into Win95, an arrow would slide along the taskbar from the right to the left with some text telling you to click the button.

  34. Re:So much for higher education by gnupun · · Score: 1

    Maybe he wasn't familiar with computers or GUI computers. Whether it's command line, GUI or programming languages, communicating with computers still requires learning a language which non-computer users don't know.

    Seriously?!? A trained rocket scientist couldn't open a word processor?

    Rocket science has nothing to do with GUI interfaces. How would this scientist go about launching the word processor? Explore many paths by clicking on random things?

  35. Re:Major change? No. by AxeTheMax · · Score: 1

    If I remember the sequence of events correctly, what became known as the 'Win95 GUI' was first released and seen as an optional update / add on to WinNT3.1. Then Win95 was released, and after that NT4 in which it was the only option. So actually the original release was in the NT series.

  36. Wait what? There's a patent on putting your by Cafe+Alpha · · Score: 1

    programs in a menu?

    If you're going to have a graphical user interface that's organized with menus, how is it not fucking obvious that the programs will be in a menu?

  37. Chicago by darkain · · Score: 3, Informative

    Maybe I missed it, but there appeared to be no references to Windows Chicago at all? The article makes it seem like the START button just appeared out of thin air, not a series of trial and error over time. Check out this document which highlights the evolutionary processes that happened between Windows 3.1 and 95

    http://oyvind.servehttp.com/wi...

    1. Re:Chicago by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Chicago was the codename for Win95 development. The fact that they mentioned Win95 would cover it.

  38. Re:Major change? No. by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

    Which, I've noticed, is still how people handle common applications, with "copy it to the taskbar" a close second and the two "pin" options vying for a distant third.

    I run Linux, Fedora 22 using the XFCE desktop. My "panel", which I call the "taskbar" is at the bottom, as the Goddess intended. On that taskbar just to the left of the buttons showing my running applications/windows, are 4 quick launch buttons for my most commonly used applications, in the usual place for quick launch buttons. At the far right of the taskbar is the clock, the notification area is to the left of the clock. I use a specific theme for window decorations where the window title bars are blue and the close button is red.

    Why yes it DOES resemble WinXP, why do you ask?

    http://forums.fedoraforum.org/...

    Strangely I was exposed to KDE and FVWM BEFORE I ever used WinXP. And I had used WinNT4 before I used Win95.

    Those folks who came up with the CDE that inspired em all knew what they were doing...designing a GUI that WORKED.

  39. Re:Major change? No. by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

    Win32s was released for Windows 3.1, but it just added some win32 APIs, not the UI. The UI was first introduced in the Chicago betas, which were eventually released as Windows 95. NT4 was released shortly afterwards and wasn't a bad OS, but hampered by the lack of plug-and-play support and perpetually having old versions of DirectX.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  40. huge learning curve by badzilla · · Score: 1

    I had over a decade of computer experience when I first encountered Windows 3.0 and even so I was barely able to use it as the designers intended. I totally failed to see "windows" on the screen - instead to me they looked like overlapping rectangles which randomly concealed part of what you were doing. I was like wtf this is supposed to be the latest new thing? To make an even worse user experience this was on a monochrome 286 with 1MB RAM which was sloowww, hence even harder to see the relationship between things you clicked and things that happened.

    --
    "Don't belong. Never join. Think for yourself. Peace." V.Stone, Microsoft Corporation
  41. Re: Major change? No. by shitzu · · Score: 1

    Win 3.1 did not have a desktop. You're still thinking of something else.

  42. the fuck kind of writeup is this? by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    Riddle me this:

    How many Microsoft developers have designed a jet engine?

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
    1. Re:the fuck kind of writeup is this? by decipher_saint · · Score: 1

      OH I remember the JET Engine

      --
      crazy dynamite monkey
    2. Re:the fuck kind of writeup is this? by ihtoit · · Score: 1

      touché.

      --
      Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  43. .....da fuq? by dywolf · · Score: 1

    "Windows 3.1 was so complicated that even a Boeing propulsion scientist couldn't figure out how to open a word processor."

    All Slashdot submissions should be run through a fallacy checker prior to acceptance.

    --
    The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  44. Microsoft invented the drop down menu? by nickweller · · Score: 1

    "BF Skinner at Harvard, was brought in to Microsoft to figure out what was going wrong — and he came up with the Start button, for which he holds the patent today. It's a weird and cool look at how simple ideas aren't obvious.

    It's news to me that Microsoft invented the drop-down menu, which is what the START button basically is, except it's on-the-left and up-side-down.

    1. Re:Microsoft invented the drop down menu? by stooo · · Score: 1

      "except it's on-the-left and up-side-down."
      Rotate the screen of the Mac 180 degrees, and you have Windows :)

      --
      aaaaaaa
  45. Re:Major change? No. by ihtoit · · Score: 1

    I do like the "Classic" themed Win7 taskbar. Harks back to Win2k but combining the quicklaunch and the button bar, I've got all my "apps" (I fucking hate that word) on there like the OSX Dock only it occupies the entire bottom portion of the screen (or the side of the screen, depends what I'm doing) rather than a less-than-100%-portion of it which is fucking stupid, what're you gonna do with that 10% either side that's not used??.

    --
    Political debates have me rolling my eyes so much I think I got optical whiplash. I should sue. - Foamy The Squirrel
  46. I Remember It Well by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I remember computing before Windows 3.1 well. I remember using DOS 3 along with Wordperfect 2 and Lotus 123. When Windows 3.0 and later 3.1 was layered over DOS I thought; 'My God, it's like Berkley Softworks GEOS(Commodore)!'.

    It was as if the heavens opened and the angels sang. The PC immediately got insanely easier to use, more usable, more accessible even to the less computer literate. Don't let any revisionist history morons kid you. Microsoft Windows 3.1 changed the fucking world! It literally changed humanity. You're present day computing existence would never have happened without Microsoft and Windows 3.1.

    Apple launched its GUI(literally stolen from Xerox) initiative before Windows 3, but it was not the Earth shaking event that Windows was a few years later. Mac wasn't nearly as usable or accessible as Windows.

    1. Re:I Remember It Well by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      You're on crack.

      There's a reason that Microsoft finally created a MacOS knockoff in Win95. It's a much better interface.

      Up to that point, it was pretty much no contest. It wasn't just MacOS but pretty much EVERYTHING else was easier to use than what Microsoft was trying to sell.

      The only reason that any version of Windows ever made more impact was the fact that Microsoft was the dominant software vendor. Their product was force fed everywhere. It took very little effort to improve on whatever the current version of DOS and Windows was.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
  47. Or... by Dr.+Evil · · Score: 2

    Somebody should have showed him how to use Program Manager.

  48. Re:Major change? No. by demonlapin · · Score: 4, Informative

    My recollection differs. Games were slower under Windows than DOS due to the overhead, and they definitely still crashed. You didn't have to have boot disks with "gaming" configurations to free up enough low memory, though.

  49. Re:Major change? No. by demonlapin · · Score: 3, Interesting

    That was the true purpose of Solitaire and Minesweeper. They taught the differences between clicking, right-clicking, double-clicking, and click and drag.

  50. FORD by sycodon · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I rented a Ford Focus. It has all these screens, keypads and shit.

    There was one very large button labeled Radio. I pressed it and nothing happened. Turns out that you had the press the much smaller button only labeled Vol to turn the radio on. Then there were these button on the center console, right in the middle and above the volume button. Unlabeled. Left to tune down, right to tun up...right? Nope. It control the "feature selection" on a screen on the dash. Tuning buttons were much smaller and in the upper right and only labeled with a left arrow and right arrow.

    Then I looked down by the shifter. There, was a placard that said, "Powered by Microsoft".

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:FORD by sh00z · · Score: 2

      In my Honda, if the stereo is off, pushing any of the input selector buttons (FM/AM, CD, Aux) also turns the unit on.

    2. Re:FORD by arkane1234 · · Score: 1

      No, no the volume button in cars have not almost always turned on the system.
      In fact, I've never had a radio in my 41 years alive that did that.
      Power buttons have been de facto standard, at least in the USA in the states I've lived in.

      --
      -- This space for lease, low setup fee, inquire within!
    3. Re:FORD by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      Older analog car radios often had a push on/off switch integrated behind the volume knob, or the older style "turn down to zero and it clicks off" inherited off cheap transistor radios.

      I've driven cars with both (Datsun B210 had the former, Volvo 440 the latter.)

      My current car (Nissan primera) turns on the radio if you tap the volume knob and has a separate "radio off" button. The ergonomics of the N-form condole are well thought out.

  51. Re:Major change? No. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Those folks who came up with the CDE that inspired em all knew what they were doing...designing a GUI that WORKED.

    The CDE toolbar was hilariously baroque because Unix users were used to having too much screen space, and the window behavior was not-at-all changed from MWM. Microsoft was on the Motif WG, which is why Windows 3.1 and MWM have almost exactly the same windowing behavior, resize grab handles, window management widgets, etc. CDE was also not the first Unix WM to feature a persistent menu; that accolade has to go to NeXTStep, which also placed it in a more logical location.

    The single menu bar of the Apple style, a holdover from the mainframe days of yore, did beget the taskbar. And now we have taskbars with start buttons on every desktop. But you can't give CDE much credit at all. It's wholly derivative, and most of what it is... is actually MWM

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  52. Re:Major change? No. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    NT4 was released shortly afterwards and wasn't a bad OS, but hampered by the lack of plug-and-play support and perpetually having old versions of DirectX.

    In NT4 they merged the User and GDI memory spaces which were separate in 3.51, and made it trivial for the user to asplode the machine in pursuit of graphics performance... which as you point out, they did not actually ever achieve in NT until Windows 2000. This is the precise moment that many people gave up on NT and went to using Unix for their servers even when they had Windows on their desktops.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  53. Re:Major change? No. by jeremyp · · Score: 1

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/w...

    It's actually the Win NT 3.1 desktop, but it looks the same as the Win 3.1 desktop.

    --
    All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
  54. Pausing a tape lifts the pinch roller by tepples · · Score: 1

    On Compact Cassette decks with mechanical controls, the pause button actually lifts the pinch roller from the tape. The motors have inertia to ensure constant tape speed, more than the tape reels, and stopping the tape by lifting the pinch roller reacts faster than by lifting the motor.

  55. Re:So much for higher education by 0123456 · · Score: 1

    A trained rocket scientist couldn't open a word processor?

    Have you ever watched people try to start Notepad on Window 8?

    'WTF? I thought this was Windows? Where's the Start Menu?'

  56. No tiles by brunnegd · · Score: 1

    Get the tiles off the desktop. I have lots of icons, for programs, folders, files, etc., that will be obscured by tiles. Win7 GUI is good, one reasons I never moved to 8 is tiles.

  57. Re:Major change? No. by KatchooNJ · · Score: 1

    Also, the double-column menu wasn't a thing until Windows XP, I believe.

    --
    "Never give up, for that is just the time and place when the tide will change." -Harriet Beecher Stowe ^_^
  58. Space in Mac OS by tepples · · Score: 1

    Under MacOS (no spaces = "classic")

    Apple has always used a space with Mac OS since it officially adopted the term for 7.6. (Source: Installing Mac OS 7.6)

  59. Forget that. What about the legendary Caps Lock?: by iq145 · · Score: 1