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Behind the Microsoft Write-Off of Nokia

UnknowingFool writes: Previously Microsoft announced they had written off the Nokia purchase for $7.6B in the last quarter. In doing so, Microsoft would create only the third unprofitable quarter in the company's history. Released on July 31, new financial documents detail some of the reasoning and financials behind this decision. At the core of the problem was that the Phone Hardware business was only worth $116M, after adjusting for costs and market factors. One of those factors was poor sales of Nokia handhelds in 2015. Financially it made more sense to write it all off.

200 comments

  1. Microsoft by bobstreo · · Score: 5, Funny

    Where phone companies go to die.

    1. Re:Microsoft by danbob999 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Nokia was dying even before being bought by Microsoft. What killed them is Symbian, and their refusal to switch to Android when it was the time (2008/2009). When they decided to switch to Windows Phone, it was already too late.

    2. Re:Microsoft by invictusvoyd · · Score: 5, Insightful

      What killed them is Symbian, and their refusal to switch to Android when it was the time

      It actually was their refusal to open up Symbian at the right time and create a dev community around it . Had that been done, Nokia would have had the opportunity to leverage its dominant market share in the smart phone segment .

    3. Re:Microsoft by Feral+Nerd · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Nokia was dying even before being bought by Microsoft. What killed them is Symbian, and their refusal to switch to Android when it was the time (2008/2009). When they decided to switch to Windows Phone, it was already too late.

      Jolla seems to be doing fine with MeeGo/Sailfish and it runs Android apps... believe it or not there is life beyond Android.

    4. Re:Microsoft by DrXym · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Actually what killed them was the CEO they hired to fix the company. Elop laid off most of the staff, bet the farm on using a phone OS that nobody wanted, ran the company into the ground and lost so much money that it had to sell the family silver to Microsoft.

    5. Re:Microsoft by Ecuador · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It was more about screwing Symbian developers (incompatible OS versions/ multiple APIs, then sudden abandonment of the platform after there was assurance to devs etc) and also the abandoning the one phone OS that was better than Android & iOS (I am talking about the Maemo/Meego as seen on the N9 of course) in favor of being a "me too" Windows Phone manufacturer, that killed-off Nokia in the end.

      --
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    6. Re:Microsoft by DrXym · · Score: 5, Interesting
      Well they did have a sizable dev community and told it to fuck off when they dropped Symbian for Windows Phone.

      A more sensible company would have moved to Android but kept the devs sweet by providing their handsets with a Symbian / QT framework so that there was a migration path.

    7. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      And there are those who believe Elop was paid by Microsoft to do exactly that.

    8. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Actually what killed them was the CEO they hired to fix the company. Elop laid off most of the staff, bet the farm on using a phone OS that nobody wanted, ran the company into the ground and lost so much money that it had to sell the family silver to Microsoft.

      Elop was obviously a Microsoft operative all along.

    9. Re:Microsoft by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      Yes, it's called Android compatibility. The only successful handsets with any significant market share that don't run Android are iOS devices. In fact, what that tells me is that if you aren't Apple, you pretty much need to be Android. Even BlackBerry, though two or three years too late, has figured that out.

      --
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    10. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Microsoft could have gotten more developers on board. The Windows Phone would have been a huge hit.

    11. Re:Microsoft by paiute · · Score: 1

      Elop backwards is pole. Nobody noticed this?

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    12. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      One time in Espoo, I shot a company just to watch it die.

    13. Re: Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      In the early 2000s Nokia was the place where retarded CEO wannabes went to kiss assess and earned big bucks in doing so. Simultaneously they of course ruined pretty much everything. Once these yes men had sucked Nokia dry they spread like a disease to anything from Finnish politics, universities to even local restaurants.

      These fucking cocksucker assholes never had the brain to do anything great or even remotely good but somehow they earned a reputation of being Finland's best. Now we have the worst economy in the euro zone, nearly a million unemployed and a national debt that keeps on rising. Fucking hell.

    14. Re:Microsoft by DrXym · · Score: 4, Informative
      It's hard to say if he was working to undermine Nokia from the inside, or if he was merely incompetent, or if he was simply out to enrich himself. Or a combination of all three.

      Whatever it was, his tenure was an unmitigated disaster. Not just for Nokia as it turns out but for Microsoft too.

    15. Re:Microsoft by red_dragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      True, Nokia was in trouble well before the WinPho fiasco, but Symbian was just a sympton rather than the disease. Management had allowed the company to branch off into different product lines and encouraged competition between them with apparently little fiscal oversight and paying no attention to the third-party developer community. So, they had S40 engineers working on almost-smartphone handsets to challenge low-end S60/Symbian handsets, S60 engineers trying to widen their product range, and Maemo/MeeGo engineers trying and failing to prove that their otherwise unwanted bastard child was a much better platform. While the managers had their heads firmly esconced in their rectums, Elop took advantage of their indecision and gave them a false sense of hope. Or, maybe not. There's a theory out there that Nokia management knew that they had a shit sandwich on their hands before Elop came along, and sought a way to wipe the slate clean without taking the blame directly if things went wrong. Microsoft and Elop appeared at the right time with an offer that they would happily not refuse: take a large amount of money in exchange for them taking out the trash for you, money that you'll be able to use to restart your phone business from the ground up in a relatively short time frame.

      --
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    16. Re:Microsoft by danbob999 · · Score: 2

      Windows Phone was too little to late. Most analysts expected strong sales of WP devices by 2015 and it didn't happen. It's not that Windows Phone was bad, only that it didn't bring any advantage for the consumer over what already existed (Android/iOS).
      Microsoft did everything to attract developers, with good development tools. They didn't come because the users were not there.

    17. Re:Microsoft by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Nokia was still the dominate cell manufacturer at the time. Microsoft killed off Nokia once Nokia was bought. They didn't ship a new phone for a freakin' year and killed off Symbian and their other product lines. Nokia would have survived it wasn't for Microsoft. Mission accomplished.

    18. Re:Microsoft by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Any significant level of incompetence is indistinguishable from malice.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    19. Re: Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Who's asses? Follow the money. Who's money put these bastards in power? And why?

    20. Re:Microsoft by danbob999 · · Score: 1

      Symbian was on a quick decline, just like Blackberry OS. It was already too late when they were bought. Symbian was already dead, and Nokia already switched to Windows Phone, an OS which never took off.

    21. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      BlackBerry 10 has been able to run Android apps for over two years. In many cases, it runs them better than Android phones do, and it runs them in a sandbox where they don't report back to the mothership.

    22. Re:Microsoft by CockMonster · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They bought QT so devs wouldn't have to deal with the pecularities of Symbian.

    23. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I suppose that's true when you definition of success is if you personally have heard of the device. If it is outside of your experience it must be a failure, right?

    24. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What killed them is Symbian, and their refusal to switch to Android when it was the time (2008/2009)

      Exactly! Because selling Android-based phones is working out for, well, pretty much nobody, as they race to the bottom.

    25. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      NOKIA is back in black; while 500 million profit a quarter isn't that much at least they are profitable again. The cancer of phone business has been hacked off and what's left?

    26. Re:Microsoft by MightyMartian · · Score: 2

      And you know what, nobody cares. I don't mean to sound rude, but whatever BB's benefits as an Android device, even BB doesn't believe them anymore as it plans to release actual Android devices. And really, it's irrelevant, as the company is basically running on fumes now. Chen's keeping it afloat by selling off assets and firing people. No wonder they have to build an Android phone, their R&D department probably isn't capable of keeping the QNX-based OS going.

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    27. Re:Microsoft by Anon-Admin · · Score: 4, Informative

      As someone who was stuck using a windows phone for two years. I disagree with your assessment of "It's not that Windows Phone was bad" It was crap!

      The company I worked for decided to buy and use them because

      A) It's windows so it should be easy
      B) They got a great price on them.

      First question from the user is "How do I set my background image?" Which you could not do.

    28. Re:Microsoft by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Symbian EKA2 was a great kernel design for mobile (and still does security and power management better than Linux), but a lot of the Symbian userspace APIs were designed at a time where 1MB of RAM was a lot, 4MB was huge. When 64MB was entry level, they were really showing their age: saving 1MB at the cost of a big increase in developer effort wasn't worth it. Nokia needed to provide a modern API and a clean migration path. They provided neither and they set up groups within the company competing to provide both and actively sabotaging each other. Maemo/Meego is an example of this: Switching from GTK to Qt shortly after launching the product doesn't instil developer confidence.

      Windows Phone actually made sense for Nokia: they needed a software stack that let them differentiate themselves (and no one else seemed to be using WP) and they had managed to set up their corporate structure in such a way that it was impossible for them to develop it themselves. Some of their apps were really nice (their maps app, which was just bought by a consortium of German car makers was a lot better than the Apple or Google offerings, for example).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    29. Re: Microsoft by Shakrai · · Score: 1

      Now we have the worst economy in the euro zone

      Not even close my Suomalainen friend. Not even close. :)

      --
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      We are the United States Government! We don't do that sort of thing.
    30. Re:Microsoft by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      Yes because switching to Android has led to nothing but riches for HTC, Motorola, LG, Sony, etc.

      The only Android company making any money is Samsung and their profit is declining.

    31. Re:Microsoft by 0123456 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Windows Phone actually made sense for Nokia: they needed a software stack that let them differentiate themselves (and no one else seemed to be using WP)

      There's no point in 'differentiating yourself' by trying to sell something no-one wants to buy. You won't make your new burger store a great success by using turds in your burgers instead of beef, but you'd certainly differentiate yourself by doing so.

    32. Re:Microsoft by Qzukk · · Score: 4, Informative

      According to Wikipedia, Elop was in a "major leadership position" as the head of the Business Division at Microsoft prior to becoming Nokia's CEO, after the acquisition he returned to Microsoft as a VP.

      I can't for the life of me imagine why someone could imagine him as a sucking tendril, deployed from the creeping horror that is Microsoft to latch onto some poor victim, injecting acid into it and dissolving it from within and sucking the guts out of the rapidly dessicating corpse before being withdrawn back into the writhing mass of flesh it calls home. No sirree, can't even fathom it.

      --
      If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
    33. Re:Microsoft by morphotomy · · Score: 2

      Half Life 3 confirmed.

    34. Re:Microsoft by TheRaven64 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Windows Phone is pretty nice. It's main drawback is the lack of apps (which is hard to fix, as no one wants to develop for a platform with few users and no one wants to buy a phone with no software). It's main problem selling is that people associate it with Windows on the desktop, which is a usability disaster that somehow manages to get worse each version, in spite of having passed the point where people thought it couldn't get any worse some time ago.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    35. Re:Microsoft by 0123456 · · Score: 1

      Yes because switching to Android has led to nothing but riches for HTC, Motorola, LG, Sony, etc.

      Whereas Windows phone manufacturers are just raking in the cash.

      Oh, wait...

      If Windows ever gets a significant market share on smartphones, it will be because Google doesn't fix Android's security and lack of updates.

    36. Re:Microsoft by narcc · · Score: 1

      It turns out that rumor wasn't true. Just wishful thinking from a fanboy without any technical competence.

    37. Re:Microsoft by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 1

      Maemo was awesome. I loved my N900, and I never understood the unwillingness to follow it up. I'd have gladly gone for a more modern touchscreen version with a bigger screen as a follow on. Maemo that would run Android apps would have been the best of both worlds.

    38. Re:Microsoft by Feral+Nerd · · Score: 1

      Yes, it's called Android compatibility.

      Oh, I thought it was called 'Having a Java VM'.

    39. Re: Microsoft by johanw · · Score: 1

      Worst economy in the Eurozone? Have you been to Greece lately?

    40. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As someone who was stuck using a windows phone for two years. I disagree with your assessment of "It's not that Windows Phone was bad" It was crap!

      The company I worked for decided to buy and use them because

      A) It's windows so it should be easy
      B) They got a great price on them.

      First question from the user is "How do I set my background image?" Which you could not do.

      As someone who used Windows phone 7 for two years, I call your entire post bullshit.

      I could change the background image even at that time.

      Now I have a goddamn Nexus and I need a fucking "app" to enable me to send text messages to multiple people. The default text app "hangouts" will send text to other people only if they are in fucking "google hangout".

      But since it's Google, no one must complain.

      I'm fucking stuck with Android or that other piece of turd with a fruit logo.

    41. Re:Microsoft by morgauxo · · Score: 1

      Symbian was pretty good for it's time. I loved my S60 phone. So long as we are talking about what they could have done hypothetically in the past I don't think switching to Android at some point in the past was the best answer.

      Had Symbian been modrenized years before it became necessary to switch (which we know they failed to do on time), given a marketplace, devices with full keyboards, etc... maybe we would be living in a 3-player smartphone world today.

    42. Re:Microsoft by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

      The only real difference, is intentions. The results are the same.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    43. Re:Microsoft by Foobar+of+Borg · · Score: 1

      If Microsoft could have gotten more DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! DEVELOPERS! on board. The Windows Phone would have been a huge hit.

      FTFY

    44. Re:Microsoft by Fencepost · · Score: 1

      How long ago was this? I never used Windows Phone 7 but didn't get the impression it was bad so much as it was limited in apps.

      Anything back on Windows Mobile 6.x and earlier? Yeah, that may have been crap, but you're talking about something that was around the same time frame as pre-Cupcake Android.

      --
      fencepost
      just a little off
    45. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Motorolla went to Google to die. USAian companies are great at killing off once great institutions. The foundation of modern USAian business philosophy is stock market valuation. Apparently market analysts love it when a company has no expenses. The quickest way to have zero expenses is to fire everyone. As CEO, you sell off what every asset your once great company had. Your company has profits from the sale, and zero expenses. The market analysts love you. You get a big bonus, and then you move onto another company. When people ask you why the last five companies you managed went bankrupt, you explain it is due to fat lazy USAian workers and point out this as the reason we need more H1B visas, while you leave out the fact that you are a major share holder in the companies that are providing the offshore talent that the USA can not live without.

    46. Re:Microsoft by tolydude · · Score: 1

      I'm fucking stuck with Android or that other piece of turd with a fruit logo.

      There's always Blackberry.

    47. Re: Microsoft by Karlt1 · · Score: 1

      There is no money in making commodity hardware when everyone is competing on price. The PC market is the same way. The Chinese Android manufacturers are making money on services. The

    48. Re:Microsoft by Stormwatch · · Score: 1

      I recall reading that there was a migration path from Symbian to MeeGo, so when they moved to Windows Phone, all app developers who were counting on it were enraged and moved to Android.

    49. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      nope, java do not run on android neither does android on java. Before ART android used a register based VM while java used a stack base VM. They have different bytecode and they only share a subset of the java standard library.

    50. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Can I quote you on that!? *Genius*

    51. Re:Microsoft by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 1

      sure thing ...*Brave Guy*

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    52. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nokia was dying even before being bought by Microsoft.

      May be Nokia was not doing well, but they were rolling out N900 with MeeGo. If Nokia was not "persuaded" to redirect pretty much all promotion in favor of MS, who knows what could have happened.

    53. Re:Microsoft by Schiller555 · · Score: 1

      If these idiots had opened their S40 platform for C++ (or some sort of Algol/Pascal/Ada), they could have made a killing business. Instead they only allowed the J2ME crapola on this great platform. Euro disease in action (too many collectivist here who think that cake slicing is more important than cake making). If a German guy comes up with a great idea, you bet American businesses will snap it up while the German companies will label him a weird guy. The actually productive and creative folks are sandwiched between collectivists and a braindead, politically correct managerial class.

    54. Re:Microsoft by Schiller555 · · Score: 2

      German sw engineer here. We had a whatsapp-like app in 2006 running on J2ME. Nokia did not want it, "because it might offend our main customer's (the telcos) SMS business". They essentially traded a few fat years for their future by not even being willing to discuss an innovative idea. Imagine if the world would use NokiaChat instead of WhatsApp. And sure as hell some smart folks here would have been able to build them a Facebook competitor. But alas, I assume all those smart folks are now at Google and the city of London, doing finance work...

    55. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Unmitigated disaster? Hardly - it's an unqualified success. Elop met his goals and got his $25M bonus. Unforunate that he flushed the company do get there.

    56. Re:Microsoft by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      They did not decide to switch to Windows Phone, Microsoft decided that. Nokia was working on smartphones at the time, had some just coming out of beta when those projects were cancelled. They weren't Android, or iOS, or Symbian, or even Windows.

      What hurt Nokia even more than smartphones were the "dumb" phones, the bottom was being cut out of their market by low quality phones that were cheaper. Sure in the first world hipster view, only smartphones matter but there was and still is a huge market for basic phones.

      For smart phones, Android and iOS aren't very good as they could be for business phones, they're much better as personal or social media phones. Though I'm not sure if Maemo or Meego would have covered that niche.

    57. Re:Microsoft by Darinbob · · Score: 2

      They went to Windows Phone after Elop took over, which means they were essentially under the control of Microsoft at that point. This was not the decision of any real Nokia workers or original management. Moving to Windows Phone was the first major torpedo out of Redmond to destroy Nokia.

    58. Re:Microsoft by Uecker · · Score: 2

      When the Windows Phone decision was done, the smart phone unit was worth much more than what they later got from Microsoft. So no, this explanation does not make any sense.

      Nokia clearly had some problems, but it was nowhere that bad. First, Symbian was not as bad as people claim. Second, when Elop announced the switch and accidentally killed Symbian at the same time (by declaring it obsolete), the smartphone unit was still highly profitable and selling more phones than everybody else and even growing faster in absolute numbers than everybody else - with Symbian phones (people seem to believe that it was already collapsing - this is not true). Finally, there was a perfectly fine strategy to transition developers from Symbian to Meego using Qt as a common platform. And Meego was ready at that time as the excellent N9 showed which was released only a few months later. This was a strategy which made perfect sense at that time. Keep in mind Nokia was the clear market leader at that time - Android was nowhere as big as it is now.

      In contrast, switching to a Windows which was already failing on the market (Microsoft had 15% market share with Windows Mobile but at that time maybe 3%), a system which was controlled by Microsoft and allowed almost no differentiating by Nokia itself. It also alienated all existing developers, the sales channels, the carriers, and their own employees. The decision was pure madness. Of course, this was entirely to be expected from Elop:
      http://mobile.slashdot.org/com...

    59. Re:Microsoft by Alok · · Score: 2

      Elop announced a shuttering of all existing platforms used (Meego, Maemo, Symbian) and talked about switching to an unused & untried platform instead (Windows Phone) - I'm surprised that people can actually think he's incompetent; to me just reading about that speech was very convincing evidence that he was a brilliant Microsoft operative.

      There was iirc some talk in the articles at the time, of how Nokia & Microsoft had some common shareholders who wanted to use Nokia to prop up the MS share prices after Windows Phone had a bad initial reception. I can completely believe this theory, maybe they didn't plan to pump & dump but genuinely thought that riding on trusted Nokia's reputation would rescue WinPhone from irrelevance. Whatever the reason, they picked Elop as CEO and either lost their shirts over the next couple of years, or more likely just cashed out before the trainwreck became too obvious to investors.

    60. Re:Microsoft by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Partner with Microsoft? Sure. Burn it to the ground so Microsoft had to buy Nokia, then make a massive write-off just so they'd have a phone in the market? Probably not the plan. He executed the "We have to get off our current platform NOW NOW NOW and go Microsoft" so well people only heard the first part. But I assume they were hoping for quite a few more converts.

      --
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    61. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Only Microsoft was a Software company and could Write Apps.
      They could have thrown a few hundred out to generate interest.
      They could have had in house contests. Plus you keep the money the app earns.

    62. Re:Microsoft by losfromla · · Score: 1

      Steve? Did you throw a chair? Did it go far? At what point did you throw the chair?

      --
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    63. Re:Microsoft by losfromla · · Score: 1

      And yet, Germany's economy is kicking ass while the US sinks further and further into third-world status. Socialism works, the proof is there. Discuss infrastructure, quality of products, unionization, health care, health care costs vs outcomes, education, education costs, social welfare, incarceration rates, child poverty, child welfare...

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    64. Re:Microsoft by hairyfeet · · Score: 1

      What good would opening up Symbian have done? It would have been like opening Windows 3.11 in 2005, it was a dead end arch that could never be made to compete.

      What killed Nokia is the same thing that killed Palm and so many others, what I call "sat on ass" syndrome, in that when they were on top they sat on ass instead of looking forward and by the time they realized they needed to think ahead? They did like 90s Apple pre Jobs and just threw shit at the wall hoping something would work. They ended up with something like 3 different OSes at one point, Symbian, Meego (which needed a good 2 years to be able to compete with what Apple and Google had out then, if the devs are to be believed) and the Java one, all fighting and headhunting and backstabbing...yeah they were fucked long before Elop showed up.

      --
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    65. Re:Microsoft by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      No what killed them was the switch to Windows Phone.

      "Nokia was dying already" is bullshit and lying with statistics. When Elop took over Nokia, even at the time of his Burning Platforms memo, Nokia was still the de facto leader in "smartphones". The only way you can say it wasn't is to ignore their Symbian marketshare with devices like the Nokia 5800 XpressMusic and their ilk.

      Symbian had limitations but they had plenty of time to develop their own OS if they wanted to. Or switch to Android. Or whatever.

      Windows Phone was a terrible solution. They used a brand new Windows Phone version which basically had no apps compared with Windows Mobile. Then they obsoleted the APIs of that Windows Phone OS again for the even newer version which once again had no apps for it.

    66. Re:Microsoft by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Not really. Symbian was pretty open back then. Sony Ericsson manufactured phones with it as well.

    67. Re:Microsoft by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      The main issues with Symbian was that it was a really ancient OS with a cumbersome low-level API. A lot of application back then for mobile were also written in Java ME which had all sorts of performance issues.

    68. Re:Microsoft by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      You are ignoring all the Nokia patents Microsoft got in the process. The target was never the manufacturing plants, nor the software, nor even the R&D staff.

    69. Re:Microsoft by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      The plan was basically to provide QT on both platforms and you could retarget to the platform you wanted.

      Even today Tizen and Sailfish use QT.

    70. Re:Microsoft by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Windows Mobile was crap but had plenty of apps. The UI was putrid and the APIs were retarded but you could find apps for basically everything because it was backwards compatible waaaay back.

      Windows Phone 7 broke backwards compatibility with Windows Mobile. Then Windows Phone 8 broke backwards compatibility with Windows Phone 7.

      So basically Microsoft had like no application developers for their platform in the end. The ones that existed only made apps because Microsoft (and Nokia) flooded them with cash to do it.

    71. Re:Microsoft by cheesybagel · · Score: 2

      The guy who started the decline, Nokia CEO Elop, was a transplant from Microsoft. Microsoft knifed Nokia. Simple as that.

    72. Re:Microsoft by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Not for long... Japan makes better high-tech machines and machine tools than Germany. The USA often makes cheaper machines and can actually out-compete them in some segments like heavy machinery. Germany typically sells highly conservative designs which Just Work (TM) with powerful branding. That's their operating motto. Of course that only applies until they actually get some competition at it. Once the Chinese improve their quality control they are going to be dead in the water. Don't assume it won't happen. It already happened in Japan, South Korea, Taiwan. China is next. At one time Infineon (division of Siemens) was a major DRAM manufacturer. Where are they now? Dead. Samsung and Hynix control the market. The Chinese are spending a lot of money in reverse engineering propulsion technology. Including German diesel engines. It's only a question of time. It may take a decade but will probably happen before that.

      Heck if it wasn't for protectionism in the automotive market in Europe the Japanese (e.g. Toyota) would have killed the German automotive industry by now.

    73. Re:Microsoft by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      They do write apps, but you can't sustain an ecosystem with only first-party apps. If anything, it becomes self-defeating, because no one wants to be the small developer in an ecosystem where a big developer that controls the distribution channel can easily reproduce their idea.

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    74. Re:Microsoft by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I have heard about this Tizen but have not used it. Do not want! If it is 1/10 as bad as claimed (and from reading, it is) it needs to die and the people who are responsible need to... I don't know, but they need to do something to atone. At the very least they need to stop helping.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    75. Re:Microsoft by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Sort of. There wasn't for old apps, but Qt could target both. Except not with quite the same code. For most developers 'you can rewrite your app, and then use almost the same code on the old platform where it runs already' is not a great migration path.

      --
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    76. Re:Microsoft by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I have some "insider" friends. I am told he never threw the chairs as is commonly claimed. That is unfortunate, it would be awesome if he had. I am not much of a Microsoft fan, mostly because I am not that dumb and I like a challenge, but even I would think it awesome if he had really been chucking chairs around like a deranged psychopath.

      I am reminded of the guys that say, "An armed society is a polite society."
      Followed by a forum member piping up, "No it isn't."
      To which I chime in, "So when you see a crazy fucker sporting a pistol at the corner store you feel that is the appropriate time to make jokes about their mother?"

      So, yes... A chair throwing Ballmer would be awesome in the same way Godzilla is awesome. RAWR!!!!

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    77. Re:Microsoft by KGIII · · Score: 1

      That decision actually shocked me. One thing that Microsoft has been pretty consistent about is backwards compatibility. You can still get 16 bit apps to run IIRC. (Not much of a Windows user as of late.) This does not include IE - as I recall that seemed to break something with most every major release until just recently when it went the other way and is actually (supposed to be) one of the better at following standards. I see people complaining and coding pages for Firefox to work properly. Umm... Isn't that one of the reasons we all sent Mozilla a bunch of money way back when? I donated, they put my name in a newspaper as I recall - I forget which one. Anyhow, it was great then but not now. No, I have no idea where I am going with this other than MS is normally good about backwards compatibility. I was kind of surprised when I read that the phone would not be following suit.

      As an aside... So many people that I know are all gung-ho about Windows 10. I do not even have it in a VM yet. Anyhow, they are pretty much all wanting a Surface, a Win 10 phone, and have upgraded their PCs to the new OS. I celebrated Win 10's drop date by installing the new kernel on a few Linux Mint machines as they were the last to get updated here. No, I still have no idea where I am going with this. I am just surprised and I wonder if maybe MS will be taking over a larger share in the mobile department as iOS, Android, and ChromeOS may be losing their 'newness' appeal and that appeal means a lot when it comes to uneducated folks following trends and trying to be hip as a means to bolster their ego. Me? I am Orthodox Linux (mostly) so I can only use Windows for one month out of the year and one weekend a month - just like the reserves.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    78. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They went to Windows Phone after Elop took over, which means they were essentially under the control of Microsoft at that point. This was not the decision of any real Nokia workers or original management. Moving to Windows Phone was the first major torpedo out of Redmond to destroy Nokia.

      Do you really think that the board hadn't decided to go to Windows Phone before hiring Elop? He was hired just to make that transition (and to be the outside bad guy to do all the nasty work involved in pruning the company that the modern management theory thinks is a good idea).

      Elop's biggest idiocy was when he publicly killed Symbian almost a year before first Nokia Windows phones came to market. It is a height of business stupidity to hold a press conference just to say: "Our current products are worthless but the next ones will be great" without actually having a working example of the next model in hand while doing so.

    79. Re:Microsoft by samwichse · · Score: 1

      Don't forget, he went back to Microsoft as soon as it was in the crapper.

      Almost like it was intended that way.

    80. Re:Microsoft by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      Nokia never really had a dominant market position in smartphones. They did have a huge share of phones running Symbian, but most of them didn't have sufficient processing power or display real estate to be used in the way that we now use what we think of as smartphones. They were really feature phones with a limited capability to download and run apps.

    81. Re:Microsoft by Shirley+Marquez · · Score: 1

      That version of MeeGo has had at least three more years of development since Nokia abandoned it. The version they gave up on was not yet ready for prime time. Even now, availability of native MeeGo apps is very limited, though they have added the ability to run Android apps so you can actually use your phone for something besides making phone calls.

    82. Re:Microsoft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's "obvious" that Elop was hired with several intentions in mind: 1. to downsize Nokia, to cut costs and transition to more China-based manufacturing. An outsider could do this with fewer emotional ties to Finland and the company. 2. to build a close partnership with Microsoft. They had considered the possibility and desire of a sale to them, as a bonus for just that was written into Elop's contract.

      I think they overestimated how much success they might have working with Microsoft.

      Looking over the history of companies that partner with Microsoft, "partner" and "acid-injecting gut-sucking corpse-desiccating creeping horror/writhing mass of flesh" mean the same thing.

    83. Re:Microsoft by losfromla · · Score: 1

      I think a chair throwing ballmer is as awesome as a fat out-of-shape over privileged white male throwing a chair is, which is to say, not that awesome. He is a psychopath though as most American CEO's are, because no decent human being could do the things that they do to "their" workforce.

      Good joke though, I totally agree. I also think that ballmer led through coercion and intimidation because psychopaths have no fear but know how to create it in others.

      Yes, I did lower-case the fat sweaty pig, so?

      --
      Only I can judge you.
    84. Re:Microsoft by KGIII · · Score: 1

      His race and gender matter? Well, okay - a lady chucking chairs is kind of cooler but, still...

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  2. Probably the number one reason was a lack of Ballm by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    After all, he is/was the master of epic disaster.

  3. As Sen Dirksen said... by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    Like Sen. Everett Dirksen supposedly said, "A billion here, a billion there, and pretty soon you're talking real money."

    The fact that Microsoft not only could write this off, but did write this off shows how little they care about anything but the bottom line. They took a good company with a generally excellent history and reputation, and, after beating it half to death, threw it away like a crumpled Dixie cup.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Asteconn · · Score: 1

      It's almost as if companies exist to earn as much money as possible

    2. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It's almost as if companies exist to earn as much money as possible

      How on earth does a $7.6 billion loss fit into the narrative of making as much money as possible?

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    3. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Dan+East · · Score: 1

      Nokia was already on the way out. They failed to adapt to the new phone market as defined by the iPhone. Perhaps if they had immediately switched to the Android OS and stuck to hardware only they could have kept pace and stayed relevant. Most people (myself included) have never even seen a Nokia phone without a physical keyboard. That shows the era in which they peaked and stagnated. Microsoft would have had to have saved Nokia, as opposed to just letting the Nokia status quo alone and Nokia magically being successful.

      --
      Better known as 318230.
    4. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      As a failure. All companies exist to make money, but not all are good at it, all the time.

    5. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by rogoshen1 · · Score: 1

      really? i'm using a lumia 510 as we speak. granted it's a prepaid $60 dollar phone from target -- but for what i use it for (texting,light browsing,email) it's pretty much perfect.

      I can't be the only person in the US who purchased said phone, can I? (though the app selection makes me wonder...)

    6. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are not the only one, and not the only one who finds their Nokia phone "perfect". I'm using an AT&T Nokia 920 and absolutely love it.

    7. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      And yet still had market share. Microsoft killed Nokia. Nokia was still the dominate player. Without Microsoft they could have recovered. With M.S. they were doomed.

    8. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by dcollins · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "When the first U.S. public corporations were created in the early 1800s, corporate charters were granted by the state legislatures for very specific purposes. The charters specified that the corporations met what was considered to be a worthy public purpose and contained strict restrictions, such as the length of time the charter lasted and what, specifically, the corporation could manufacture. In the mid-nineteenth century, it wasn't unheard of for states like Ohio, Michigan, New York and Nebraska to revoke corporate charters when corporations no longer fulfilled their purpose."

      We should return to enforcing and revoking corporate charters when they fail to serve the public interest.

      http://www.huffingtonpost.com/ralph-nader/corporate-charters_b_2759596.html

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    9. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by HornWumpus · · Score: 2

      The worst corporations in history have been as you describe (e.g The Dutch East India Company, etc).

      With the government hanging over them they just become extensions of it. Do you like Fascism? Because that is what you propose. Exactly what I'd expect from Nader.

      Mussolini's oft quoted line about corporations is actually about these types of corporations.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    10. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by rch7 · · Score: 1

      Their market share was quickly going down before Elop was hired to to "fix" it. They were doomed. Switching to Android was not a solution, then they would need to compete with Chinese and Korean manufacturers for bottom price with no R&D investment, and that was obviously hopeless. My guess would be that they were not able to adopt to completely different software development model when going from dumbphones to smartphones. But that happened years before Elop.

    11. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > I can't be the only person in the US who purchased said phone, can I?

      Huh?! A koan!

    12. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      really? i'm using a lumia 510 as we speak.

      Cool anecdote, bro. Now run the sales numbers and let us know if you actually represent “most people.”

    13. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by I4ko · · Score: 1

      Nokia was a dominant player because of basic phones with a flashlight. And I would actually still buy one.

    14. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And yet still had market share. Microsoft killed Nokia. Nokia was still the dominate player.

      I just have to say—it’s really cute that you seem to think so, regardless of the reality of the sales metrics.

    15. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by tipo159 · · Score: 1

      I recently picked up a Nokia N9. I love that phone.

      The big problem with it is that many apps don't work because they make references to web sites and services that no longer exist. Not even the Twitter and Facebook apps can talk to home. You can't even put it into developer mode because it needs to download packages from now-non-existant servers. Plus, it is really slow on Wifi networks.

      Now that I have used the N9 and Meego, I think that it is a big shame that Elop and MS killed it off. Makes me a bit angry.

      At least I was able to get the terminal app onto the N9, so I have a shell prompt. The package files are out there and there is a Sailfish OS port, so I can play with things and try to get it working better.

    16. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Ravaldy · · Score: 1

      They took a good company with a generally excellent history and reputation, and, after beating it half to death

      Actually, they hired Elop when shit was hitting the fan HARD. See the graph which shows the clear picture. Elop didn't help the company but it's not his decision making that sunk it.

      http://blog.gsmarena.com/a/sho...

    17. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Schiller555 · · Score: 1

      I once worked with an ex Msft manager. Let me put it this way - he was not great a great thinker and analyst.

    18. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Schiller555 · · Score: 1

      Yeah Mr Elop, so you avoided battle in order to jump off a cliff in orderly fashion ?
      Guaranteed death is better than a chance to win the war ?
      Well-made Android phones can indeed command a serious price. That would HAVE been an option for Nokia.

    19. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Schiller555 · · Score: 1

      Bingo. The phone business was transformed from a hw business to a sw business by means of the iPhone and its clone Android. The American corporations had much deeper knowledge and experience in this business than Nokia. Apple and Google simply turned their sw engineering teams on making phones software with totally new capabilities and new business models, new application distribution models, always on internet and the like. Before Apple, nobody had a reasonable internet traffic plan and Nokia was too anxious to push IP networking because that would threaten the SMS business.
      Euro statism against American capitalism. Who wins out 10 out of 10 times ?

    20. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by Bill+Dog · · Score: 1

      We should return to enforcing and revoking corporate charters when they fail to serve the public interest.

      We should return even earlier to when there was no such meddling by the state. Businesses should sink or swim on their own.

      --
      Attention zealots and haters: 00100 00100
    21. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by dcollins · · Score: 1

      That's an absurd argument. The Dutch East India Company was a Royal Charter and a monopoly granted by the monarch Queen Elizabeth. The whole problem with the East India company was that it was totally free from any government oversight and was allowed to run roughshod in India with its own private armies, etc. Putting corporate charters back under oversight and review from democratically elected legislatures is a totally different prospect.

      --
      We know where leadership by an anti-intellectual "strongman" who scapegoats minorities and likes boisterous rallies goes
    22. Re:As Sen Dirksen said... by rch7 · · Score: 1

      Of course it wasn't an option. There is no profit in this business when you compete against multiple competitors in South East Asia.

  4. steve ballmer's legacy gets one last sucker punch by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nokia got a new CEO in 2010 Steven Elop. Elop is a former Microsoft exec. As a former Microsofty, Elop bets all of Nokia on a Microsoft product despite said product being at least two orders of magnitude inferior than the competitor (Android). The bet never pays out... not even close to pays out. Microsoft buys former Microsoft exec's, Steven Elop, company (i.e. Nokia). Microsoft pays off Elop to leave in June 2015. Microsoft writes off the entire sum of the buyout of Nokia and then some (translation: the CEO and everyone at the top of Microsoft are saying "Nokia and all its companies and products are a complete waste of our money (i.e. 'writeoff')"). then microsoft lays off the vast majority of everyone in Nokia/WindowsPhone unit.

  5. AND THE BEAT GOES ON! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Rings true for the past decade and a half. Plus.

    The same thing could be said about Google, and its apps. And the beat goes on to HP, IBM, Cisco, and the beat goes on. Though to the products-and-DIVISIONS-die-all-time drummer.

    I won't mention Slashdot in the list.

  6. Sell it back to Nokia by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For a couple of billion or so. Nokia would start making Android phones, and everything would be peachy.

  7. To the burning fire or to cold water by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    http://www.theguardian.com/technology/blog/2011/feb/09/nokia-burning-platform-memo-elop

    This killed nokia. I remember how fast nokia started sinking after this. And of course Elop (former MS employer) did this so MS could buy Nokia cheaper it was obvious back then it is even more obvious now. After each Elop new speech nokia would reach new lows. He should be prosecuted to be honest.

    1. Re:To the burning fire or to cold water by rch7 · · Score: 1

      Nokia was sinking long before Elop and that was obvious to everybody, that was the reason Elop was hired in the first place. Elop just stated well known facts. And managed to get billions from MS to Nokia shareholders for worthless dying business.

    2. Re:To the burning fire or to cold water by Schiller555 · · Score: 1

      You can shit-talk your own company in the forest with your wife, but only if she is an ex-NKVD officer and capable of keeping her mouth shut at all times. On all other occasions, including your exec suite you DO NOT shit-talk your own company.
      How can your customers trust in your products if you do not trust them ???
      I do NOT think Elop was evil, I think he was just a moron who was way too incompetent for running a major corporation. Also see what Napoleon had to say on this subject.

    3. Re:To the burning fire or to cold water by rch7 · · Score: 1

      You may call him moron if you are better CEO than him and think his task was to "run this company". It is just your assumption that his task was to run company, I think you may be completely wrong and his task was to sell this company business to MS. Either way this business was run down long before him to the point of no return. And he sold what was left for good money, what else do you want?

  8. other market factors to adjust for by nimbius · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Microsofts prior, and arguably present business model of violently entering a market thats been dominated for 3-4 years with an identical product is something of a relic from Steve Ballmer. Its only ever been effective during the browser wars, when microsoft made IE an inextricable part of their OS and every subsequent update or patch forced the default browser to IE conveniently. In the hardware world things like the Zune and the phone were recognizable flops in every market segment but remained a going concern, with significant marketing and advertising to boot. Even the tablet, surface, experiences this as it takes multi million dollar losses every year and enjoys no real marketshare. Why?

    Two things: Perpetual corporate licensing and XBox revenues. These are, arguably, microsofts only source of immediate revenue anymore. the OS is given away with every PC, and things like Azure and the upcoming Windows Watch will have to be priced lower than their competitors. What microsoft has is the real power to sustain a dead-on-arrival product, seemingly indefinitely, off these two revenue streams. Microsofts dated logic is that it doesnt have to make a better product for customers, it just has to outlast competitor offerings until price and marketing somehow win over customers. once the product fails, it simply rolls it under the carpet and chases the next white dragon, dated 3-4 years, and offers a similar product in a desparate attempt to remain relevant in a particular market.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:other market factors to adjust for by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      You may not see a line item price for the OS when you buy a machine from Dell, HP, or Lenovo, but they are paying Microsoft for the license that comes on almost every machine sold. It's a lower price then what regular consumers would pay if they built their own computer, but the is still a very large amount of money coming into Microsoft from all those PCs, laptops, and tablets being sold with Windows preinstalled.

      Personally, I really like what they've done with Windows 10. And I really like their Phone OS. The OS by itself is actually really nice. There is an app shortage, but I have no complaints about the hardware or the OS itself. If they can really make it easy to port iOS and Android apps to Windows Phone 10, as is their stated plan, then I could really see Windows phone catching on. It's so much better than Android and iOS, at least in my opinion.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    2. Re:other market factors to adjust for by debrain · · Score: 3, Informative

      Its only ever been effective during the browser wars

      Lest we forget, the others including:

      - Novell Netware
      - Wordperfect
      - PC/DR DOS & OS / 2

    3. Re:other market factors to adjust for by ausekilis · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the difference is this white dragon runs all your Windows applications* *as long as they were previously compiled to run on the White Dragon architecture, developed using genuine Microsoft Development Environment 9000. All this can be licensed for the low low price of your first born.

    4. Re:other market factors to adjust for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's worked very well for them in the past. They typically wait for sparks to happen in the industry to validate it's market, then release a competing product. The OS and Windows brand and interoperability cannot be replicated by competitors and is considered added value over and above product features. Some that come to mind:

      1. Word (vs. Wordperfect)
      2.. Excel (vs. Lotus)
      3. Windows NT (vs. Novell)
      4. SQL Server (vs. Oracle, Informix, DB2, etc)
      5. Exchange (vs. sendmail?)
      6. IE (vs. Netscape, as mentioned)

    5. Re:other market factors to adjust for by Stellian · · Score: 1

      That's pretty much an established business strategy, to buy or subsidize your entry into a new market with profits from your existing cash cows. Google did it wih Youtube and Android, Apple did it with everything except the iPod and so on. It's certainly a gain for customers if profits, instead of being disbursed to stockholders, and invested in new products and increased competition.
      What set Microsoft aside was it's complete ruthlessness in leveraging it's OS monopoly to crush competitors using anti-competitive tactics that made consumers poorer.

    6. Re:other market factors to adjust for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As usual, the armchair pundits only consider the consumer businesses that they're personally aware of. I pay Microsfot a small fortune every year, and it's not for software you've ever heard of.

    7. Re:other market factors to adjust for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How fucking stupid can someone be to believe that Microsoft doesn't charge for Windows. You poor, mindless drone.

    8. Re:other market factors to adjust for by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2

      Don't forget:
      7. DOS (vs CP/M)
      8. Doublespace (vs Stacker)
      9. Windows (vs GEM)
      10. XBox (vs Nintendo / Sega / Sony)
      It's actually hard to think of a successful Microsoft product that hasn't followed this pattern.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    9. Re:other market factors to adjust for by I4ko · · Score: 1

      What for - Navision?

    10. Re:other market factors to adjust for by Daniel+Hoffmann · · Score: 1

      Microsoft dev tools are either free or really cheap, the real problem is lockin into the ecosystem, sure the same is true for android and iOS, but they have established user-bases already

    11. Re:other market factors to adjust for by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Note that part of the reason the price for Windows is lower on a machine from HP (et al) is because they get paid to load the machine with shovelware. All that 'free' software crap that is preinstalled helps reduce the price of the computer.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    12. Re:other market factors to adjust for by Schiller555 · · Score: 1

      It also helps to drive all the adults to Apple, if they can afford it. It is actually amazing how MSFT managed to damage their PC business. But little wonder, given how they attempted to shove Win8 down the throats of their customers.
      A smart business owner does not do shoving, instead he makes his customers do the shoving THEMSELVES. A smart business owner would have silently killed Win8 and continued to sell Win7. Then develop Win7 2.0 as an incremental improvement and call it Win9 or Win10.
      Finally, smart folks know their strengths and leverage them. After Snowden, MS could have nailed Google and Amazon to the wall. But no, all they can do is to emulate the leaders in the cloudy business. What Kindergarten develops, the Corporation manages to destroy in terms of rationality.

    13. Re:other market factors to adjust for by Schiller555 · · Score: 1

      MS actually could do a killing business by selling "Windows XP extended usage fee - 50 Dollars per annum per seat". Many if not most customers would shell out the money for the convenience of not having to perform an upgrade that gives ZERO VALUE. Actually, Vista and Win7 destroyed value because people had to relearn perfectly well-working processes. Win8 doubled down on the destruction.
      Adam Smith woke up in his grave and his wrath destroyed major parts of the Wintel business.
      Really, how can you be so incredibly stupid not to milk the money machine "Windows XP" and replace it by value-destructors ???

    14. Re:other market factors to adjust for by Schiller555 · · Score: 1

      "Microsoft dev tools are either free or really cheap"
      So true. MSVC 2008 was an excellent IDE, and then they turned it into crap by re-writing it in C#. So indeed "cheap".

    15. Re:other market factors to adjust for by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      MS has no control over what PC vendors install on the machines after they install Windows. If they tried to exert that kind of control, I'm sure more than a few people would scream "monopoly". The PC vendors themselves are the ones who choose to install junkware on the machines. Microsoft is even starting to push their signature edition PCs without all the junkware loaded on to try and get their good name back. I think MS would like nothing better than to be able for people to have a good experience with their Windows computers, but Lenovo, HP, Dell and others are ruining the experience in the name of ever lower PC prices, no matter what the experience.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    16. Re:other market factors to adjust for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, what about the Xbox?

    17. Re:other market factors to adjust for by debrain · · Score: 1

      Bob. While not a striking success, nobody thought of Bob before Microsoft.

    18. Re:other market factors to adjust for by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Not Bob specifically, but there were quite a few agent-based UIs floating around. They all failed for much the same reason as Bob (if you're going to have an agent between you and the computer, it needs to be really good at natural language parsing, or you're just building an obfuscated and poorly documented CLI).

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  9. These Big Companies Just Write it Off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    Kramer : It's just a write off for them .

    Jerry : How is it a write off ?

    Kramer : They just write it off .

    Jerry : Write it off what ?

    Kramer : Jerry all these big companies they write off everything

    Jerry : You don't even know what a write off is .

    Kramer : Do you ?

    Jerry : No . I don't .

    Kramer : But they do -- and they're the ones writing it off!

    1. Re:These Big Companies Just Write it Off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's an asset on the books, on the balance sheet. Get it off and your other side of the balance sheet drops. Now that it is no longer part of the equation, you don't have to pay tax on it. Kramer. Jerry. Slashdot.

    2. Re:These Big Companies Just Write it Off by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      A serious question.

      Why do you pay tax on an asset?

  10. It worked by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 5, Funny

    So, everything was fine until Microsoft somehow (the article doesn't say) determined that goodwill was worth only $116 million instead of $5.4 billion. That's huge. This is the crucial piece that makes it all "make sense".

    Microsoft bought their rival and destroyed them. It's all done now, Nokia isn't coming back. Microsoft can rest easy now, the threat to Windows Phone has been eliminated. It cost billions, but that's OK. Plenty more where that came from. What's the point of being a huge corporation if you can't do things like this from time to time? It's time to stroke a Persian cat and sip a snifter of brandy. The Company has been saved.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:It worked by MightyMartian · · Score: 1

      Except no one is buying Windows Phones. They want iPhones and Androids. One has to wonder how many billions of dollars MS has blown trying to become a big smart device player. How long will their shareholders tolerate them dumping vast sums into dubious projects?

      For chrissakes, has the Xbox division actually paid off the huge investments MS threw into that division? I don't mean have the last seven or eight quarters been in the black, I mean has it actually paid for itself?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    2. Re:It worked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except no one is buying Windows Phones.

      Part of that is the doom of a sturdy product. I like my Lumia 928. It works well as a phone, internet acces, and portable supplemental small-game platform. It works well enough that the only time I had any thoughts of upgrading had to do with Verizon being very slow to release one of the major OS updates (as in, 6 months slow).

      In contrast, iPhones and Androids seem to have a functional life of about 2 years before the OS itself is beyond the abilities of the hardware. I have not done studies to confirm this number, it is purely based on the "check out my new phone" frequency of iPhone and Android users I know and have known.

    3. Re:It worked by petermgreen · · Score: 2

      Dunno if you are being serious or not, assuming you are for the sake of discussion.

      Nokia isn't coming back

      I wouldn't be so sure about that.

      MS did not buy Nokia (despite headlines from people who thought the most publicaly visible part of a company was the only part), they bought Nokia's handset division, the lumia brand, some time limited rights to use the Nokia brand, and some time-limited no-compete clauses preventing Nokia from using their own brand on handsets for a while. In the not too distant future Nokia will be free to start a new handset division or license their brand to someone else.

      Microsoft can rest easy now, the threat to Windows Phone has been eliminated.

      Somewhat true, having first party handsets means they can keep offering phones even if the rest of the industry thinks their OS is a bad idea and some goodwill will have transferred from nokia to MS through the lumia brand and their distribution agreements but it's a very expensive way to maintain a distant third in the smartphone OS marketplace.

      --
      note: i'm known as plugwash most places but i screwd up registering that here somehow in the past and now can't register
    4. Re:It worked by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      You might want to do some actual research instead of a gut check because what you wrote is pure bullshit.

    5. Re:It worked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not like Nokia is a bunch of phone geniuses in waiting. They fucked up royally when their phone was the dominant phone in the market. Then don't have a cell phone now and of course have lost the vast majority of their relevant employees and company know-how. It would be a much more difficult path for Nokia than it would for Blackberry. To the point that it's basically nonsense. You might as well say Starbuck's or BMW could become dominant in the handset division.

    6. Re:It worked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Thank you for the detailed counter-evidence.

    7. Re: It worked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They seem to have provoked you to anger. Why is that?

      -posted on my Nokia phone.

    8. Re:It worked by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      You're not thinking like Microsoft, which was the point of my post. That's what I imagine THEY thought. It makes sense to me. It doesn't matter how many Windows Phones sell. The point is that Microsoft felt threatened by Nokia and then took what it considered to be appropriate steps to eliminate the threat.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    9. Re:It worked by johanw · · Score: 1

      The market has changed, even small Chinese companies can develop phones. And there is a large pool of experienced people in Finland that can be hired again.

    10. Re:It worked by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > Microsoft somehow (the article doesn't say) determined that goodwill was worth only $116 million instead of $5.4 billion

      Mostly this comes from:

      1. Market share (Windows/Nokia phones are in single digits and dropping - the rosier number almost certainly "presumed" competing with Apple and Samsung as a nearly matched peer) and effective capitalization it represents as available sales opportunities
      2. Growth and revenue stream estimates based on capturing #1 in the form of a pro forma time series of income statements
      3. Calculate the liquidation value of all assets associated with the phone business (a prevent value number - PV), e.g. buildings, equipment, IP), with negative value for future cash flow obligations that must either be made at liquidation or that will survive liquidation (severances of laid off employees, etc.)
      4. Take these cash flows and do a net present value (NPV) and that's your current valuation of the business - I'd bet dollars to donuts that the $116M is pretty close to the asset liquidation figure and that the future revenue actually has a zero NPV by itself (i.e. it's a total, unsalvageable write-off, which I don't think anyone can argue with)

      - Engineer with an MBA

  11. The Bottom Line by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The fact that Microsoft not only could write this off, but did write this off shows how little they care about anything but the bottom line.

    Umm, writing this off does not in anyway improve their bottom line. Quite the opposite in fact. It's an admission that they bought something for a lot of money that is now worthless. What it shows is that they are not doing a very good job of maintaining the bottom line because the company is throwing money at bad investments. It's also a strong indicator that management at the time (read Balmer) was of questionable competence.

    1. Re:The Bottom Line by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 2

      Umm, writing this off does not in anyway improve their bottom line.

      Actually, this is pretty common trick to improve the bottom line. It doesn't improve the bottom line in that quarter, of course, but the single huge writeoff concentrates all the losses in the one quarter, making all the other quarters look better. Management then passes off the one bad quarter as an anomaly.

    2. Re:The Bottom Line by nikkipolya · · Score: 1

      Balmer) was of questionable competence.

      Correction: Balmer was, is, and always will be incompetent.

  12. The solution nobody asked for by sjbe · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I can't be the only person in the US who purchased said phone, can I?

    No but you aren't in a large crowd. I know I can count the number of Windows Phones I've seen in the wild on my fingers. Windows Phone was pretty much a solution nobody asked for several years later than anyone cared. Android and iOS already were large and dominant and developers weren't really looking to support a third platform. Technically it's probably fine but it offers nothing that people care about that the competition doesn't already have.

    Furthermore Google is basically giving Android away so the handset makers have no incentive to care about Windows. Why would Samsung want to pay Microsoft for a product nobody wants anyway? Microsoft lacks the design culture and brand to compete with Apple on the high end (through vertical integration) and Google is undercutting them on price on the low end. Frankly I think Microsoft is screwed in the mobile phone market. I just don't see a path to profitability for them.

    1. Re:The solution nobody asked for by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      Furthermore Google is basically giving Android away

      Half true. If you want to ship Android, it's free: go to AOSP, download, tweak to your device, ship. If, on the other hand, you want the Google Play store, then you have to pay Google, agree to ship other Google apps in the default firmware install, and agree not to ship competing apps in a few categories in the default install.

      Microsoft lacks the design culture and brand to compete with Apple on the high end

      A lot of that is marketing. It's far more a brand problem than a design culture. In terms of usability, I'd place Windows Phone a little bit ahead of iOS at the moment (which surprised me a lot, because Windows is a UI clusterfuck on the desktop, OS X is worse than it was but still in a completely different league to Windows 8.1 - I've not tried Windows 10 yet). Possibly MS moved all of their competent HCI people to the mobile team, or possibly management doesn't care as much about mobile so doesn't insist on multiple layers of design by committee. No one who's used Windows on the desktop would go out of their way to buy a Microsoft product though.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    2. Re:The solution nobody asked for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      All of your points are good and I agree with them. One thing you did miss though is that Microsoft licenses Windows Phone for free these days too. Not that it got them any takers, but they don't charge for it anymore...

    3. Re:The solution nobody asked for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If, on the other hand, you want the Google Play store, then you have to pay Google

      Wrong. See clause 4.1 of the Android distribution agreement. No money changes hands in either direction.

  13. also a recent restructuring so..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    combine a restructuring with a big write down with lots of nebulas figures like marketing( wasn't, paying companies to use MS Software instead of Linux was from marketing funds ) and you get to hide lots of losses and revenue issues.

  14. The Big Bath by sjbe · · Score: 2

    Actually, this is pretty common trick to improve the bottom line.

    It does not improve the bottom line at all. That is an accounting fact. It has other effects but improving the bottom line isn't one of them.

    It doesn't improve the bottom line in that quarter, of course, but the single huge writeoff concentrates all the losses in the one quarter, making all the other quarters look better. Management then passes off the one bad quarter as an anomaly.

    You are talking about the Big Bath tactic. That is an earning management tactic to try to prop up the stock price by showing artificial profits in other financial periods. It is a fairly transparent and rather shady technique used to try to take advantage of the short memory of investors but make no mistake that it does nothing to improve the bottom line. Whether you take the hit all in one quarter or over time is irrelevant to the effect on profitability. Writing off an investment - any investment - reduces the value of the company.

    Disclosure: Among other things I am a certified accountant.

    1. Re:The Big Bath by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Oh bull shit. Value of the company? Please we are talking about perception to investors. If investors see this as a good thing then the write-off increases Microsoft's value not decreases. The only thing a write-off decreases is the profits of the company at the time the write-off is booked. It may also reduce the company's tax liability - by reducing its profit. Considering most investors thought the Nokia acquisition was bad, and since they reaped little reward from it, the write-off was a positive thing.

  15. Re:steve ballmer's legacy gets one last sucker pun by houghi · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Depending on how you look at it, Elop did a great job.
    1) The comapny was already dead
    2) He managed to get a lot of money for the company

    I would say that that is a great job, unless that was not his (real) jobdescription.

    --
    Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
  16. Microsoft and the Nokia patents .. by nickweller · · Score: 1

    'Under the patent piece of the deal, Microsoft acquired 8,500 design patents covering phone manufacturing from Nokia. Microsoft is also licensing another 30,000 "utility" patents from Nokia for ten years, with the option to renew in perpetuity.' ref

    1. Re:Microsoft and the Nokia patents .. by amorsen · · Score: 1

      Which is great if Microsoft wants to manufacture phones. However, it seems unlikely that they can make $7.6B from being an Android patent troll.

      --
      Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
    2. Re:Microsoft and the Nokia patents .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I dunno, according to the peanut gallery around here there are 755 ka-gillion Android devices newly activated per second. Sounds like a source of profit to me.

    3. Re:Microsoft and the Nokia patents .. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Under the patent piece of the deal, Microsoft acquired 8,500 design patents covering phone manufacturing from Nokia. Microsoft is also licensing another 30,000 "utility" patents from Nokia for ten years, with the option to renew in perpetuity.' ref

      When they bought Nokia, the rally cry was, "WE ARE MARSHALL!!!!"

  17. Elop by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Some interesting comments from a lot of people, but having been part of the company for 15 years or so, I'd like to set the record straight on a few points.

    First, on the nosedive of the business since Elop took the reins and losses incurred by Microsoft - many of us saw early that Elop didn't understand the business or Nokia. For a while, I personally thought it was a ruse, that there was a master plan - drive down the price for MS to take over, but once that happens, a plan would be in place to revamp the handset business. A few examples - doing away with proven OS hedging policies at Nokia (it was always multi-platform / multi-OS business) to be Windows-only shop, and refusing to build Android phone in the face or overwhelming evidence that if Nokia didn't do so it would spell the end of the business. However, it turned out Elop genuinely had no idea what he was doing, which continued wholesale after Microsoft takeover.

    Second, on the "Symbian killed Nokia" nonsense - it was the other way around - Nokia killed Symbian. Nokia killed several attempts to build android-like layer on top of aging and awkward C++ APIs - this was years before iPhone or Android were even announced. Later, after buying Symbian, Nokia "open sourced" the OS only to take a year to contribute (non-building) codebase, and whole 18 months to produce documentation. Under the circumstances, other players - notably Samsung and Sony - gave up on the platform and moved on.

  18. Maemo was Good by randallman · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I owned a N800 and N900. Maemo was good and would have allowed Nokia to maintain the control and distinctiveness they had with Symbian. With support for Android apps, it was a win-win. They needed united support for Maemo internally, but instead got Elop. Elop decided to throw out Maemo and Sybian and throw everything behind Windows Phone. The rest is history.

    Going Android would have been a bad move also, because they would have no edge over the other Android players. Having their own OS with support for Android apps was a better solution.

    1. Re:Maemo was Good by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      AFAIK, the Maemo/Linux division was always just a side project compared to their Symbian mainstream. They had Linux tablets with a cloud infrastructure 10 years ago, but it just wasn't Symbian. So Elop wasn't the sole reason that line of development died, but it's interesting how he got onboard just around the time Maemo/Meego was breaking out with the N9.

      I still own and use my N800 and N900; it's been hard to find another real phone-computer when everything new is a "smart"phone with plenty of CPU and RAM you can't actually use, and no keyboards even though people are mostly typing instead of talking.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  19. Why am I not surprised... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Nor disappointed. I was working for Nokia Mobile Phones as a senior engineer in 2014 when the MS deal closed. Before that, MS was reassuring us that we were not in danger of losing our jobs. Two weeks after the deal closed at the end of April, 2014, 13,000 of us were fired or laid off. So, screw you Microsoft!

    1. Re:Why am I not surprised... by iggymanz · · Score: 1

      ah, so you designed the unprofitable crap that drove Nokia to near death, instead of the smartphones people wanted. well done, are you a systemd developer now?

  20. They had a lot of developers by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Microsoft had a pretty large number of developers on board, in part to incentives they were handing out left and right...

    The problem is even with that support, it did not matter because people were just not buying the phones.

    Between the giants of Google and Apple, already well established, it's pretty hard to make other people know you exist much less buy your phone... even if you are Microsoft (or Blackberry).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  21. Just accounting anyway by jfengel · · Score: 1

    Bingo. This "writeoff" is goodwill, which it just a way of accounting for why you're paying more for a company than appeared on its balance sheets. That includes a lot of things like "the experience of the employees", which is often what you're really buying when you purchase a company, and "expected future growth". Microsoft itself has only $61B in assets, but $380B in market cap. If you could buy it, the extra $320B would all be "goodwill".

    You have to put it on your balance sheet to make the books balance, but there's no reason to keep it there forever. You used to just depreciate it; now it just gets "reevaluated" under various accounting rules. That's all MSFT has done.

    It's not saying much about what Nokia has meant to Microsoft. It's just accountants trying to track where the value goes for the purposes of comparing one company to another. It doesn't indicate one way or the other on whether the Nokia deal was a good one, or whether Microsoft has managed it well.

    1. Re:Just accounting anyway by nikkipolya · · Score: 1

      Exactly! The main article saying "Phone Hardware business was only worth $116M", is plain rubbish. Its just that IFRS requires companies to periodically test the impairment of goodwill. And Microsloth found out that the impairment is $5.1B, leaving only $116M in goodwill to be carried on their balance sheet.

      I wish I had mod points to mod you up.

  22. Book value by sjbe · · Score: 2

    Oh bull shit. Value of the company? Please we are talking about perception to investors.

    No we are talking about the book value of the company and to some degree the intrinsic value. The secondary market value of the company is a separate concern.

    The only thing a write-off decreases is the profits of the company at the time the write-off is booked.

    Wrong. It decreases the assets of the company and increases expenses. It also affects the equity of the company because assets decreased and so equity must decrease also if you aren't adding liabilities. The write off also means that the expected future earnings from the asset are reduced which reduces the net present value of the enterprise. The notion that the only thing that is affected is the profits in that one financial period is demonstrably wrong and any accountant should be able to easily show you why.

    It may also reduce the company's tax liability - by reducing its profit.

    If you have an impaired asset you record the difference as a loss but it is no different than any other investment gone south. Put in simple terms what you are suggesting is selling a $2 bill for $1 to try to intentionally realize a $0.15 tax savings. The company is worse off by $0.85 so worrying about the $0.15 in reduced tax is idiotic. Any reduced tax liability should be small consolation for shareholders in the face of a $7 billion writedown.

    1. Re:Book value by nikkipolya · · Score: 1

      Is there a real cash outflow here OR is this notional? But the impact it has on the income statement, that's real. Because of the writeoff, the profit goes down and hence the tax liability for that period. And as for the assets on the balance sheet going down, no serious analyst would completely believe in goodwill and intangibles presented on the balance sheet and mistake them for real assets, especially in the field of technology.

      Disclosure: I am neither a certified public accountant nor a chartered financial analyst.

  23. Re:steve ballmer's legacy gets one last sucker pun by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2
    Around 2005, Nokia had a shiny new kernel (Symbian EKA2), designed from scratch to scale to future mobile systems with a good security model, clean abstractions, and power management built in at all layers. It was still hampered, however, by userspace APIs that were designed for a far more memory-constrained environment. Their solution to this involved multiple phases. Their first part was to try to replace the kernel with Linux. This did not go well. They then had no idea how to design a new set of userland APIs, so they set up multiple teams internally competing. These teams were very good at sabotaging each other, but not so good at bringing a usable product to market.

    Elop came in when Nokia had failed to produce anything to compete with the iPhone or even with a moderately decent Android handset. He managed to persuade Microsoft to buy Nokia for what now turns out to be a significant multiple of their real value. Of all the companies that benefitted from this, Microsoft was pretty low down the list.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  24. Re:steve ballmer's legacy gets one last sucker pun by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow, this was upvoted insightful? You think $7.6B was a lot of money for a company that practically owned the lower-to-mid phone market when he took over? He had one amazing product coming out (the Maemo/Meego powered N9) that was seen as by far the best phone & OS when it came out by people who tried it (myself included), but chose to bury it (it was not sold in ANY major market) explaining that Maemo/Meego was not a good strategy, since they could only release 1 model/year. Yeah, like other "fruit" companies that release just one model per year (or less) can't make a $hitload of money and dominate smartphones for years.

  25. A rock and a hard place for Microsoft by sjbe · · Score: 2

    If, on the other hand, you want the Google Play store, then you have to pay Google, agree to ship other Google apps in the default firmware install, and agree not to ship competing apps in a few categories in the default install.

    The amount of money Google makes from this is almost negligible. Something north of 95% of Google's revenue comes from advertising so whatever they are charging to access Google Play it doesn't amount to much in the grand scheme of things. Microsoft on the other hand basically makes all their revenue from software sales so they pretty much have to charge something for it since they lack a supporting revenue stream. (unless you want to count desktop software sales but that would be kind of dumb of them)

    A lot of that is marketing. It's far more a brand problem than a design culture.

    Marketing isn't some magical pixie dust you can waive over a company to make people want their products. Marketing at its core is relationship development and that takes a lot of careful work and time. Microsoft has mostly done a terrible job developing relationships with customers. They've been the beneficiary of a monopoly so their survival never depended heavily on people having warm fuzzies when they think about Microsoft. Apple on the other hand has been arguably brilliant at it, almost from their beginning. Think about how many Apple stickers you've seen on the backs of cars. Probably quite a few - I see them regularly. People LOVE Apple even when they shouldn't. Apple has one of those brands like Harley-Davidson that people have almost a fetish for. Now how many Microsoft stickers have you seen? Probably none. By and large people don't love Microsoft or their products. Microsoft has the money to change this I suppose but it will take a lot of careful effort and time and frankly I doubt they have the corporate culture to pull it off.

    1. Re:A rock and a hard place for Microsoft by Schiller555 · · Score: 1

      You know why this is the case ? Because MS products actually look cheap. Very cheap. But their price sticker is not as cheap as Asus, Acer and the like. Compare that to Apple, who really ensure all the details are nice. From mechanical work to software ergonomics. Nobody wants to waste their life with ugly products, if they can afford a better one. Also, their sales sucks donkey balls as compared to Apple stores. At least here in the land of the automobile. You cannot even test their browser in the local mall. At Apple store I can. Why would I want a cheap-looking product which might come with a slow browser ? MSFT are really big time idiots.

  26. Re:steve ballmer's legacy gets one last sucker pun by sjames · · Score: 1

    Same old story, pilot damages plane until it can't fly, jumps to safety with his golden parachute. Passengers and flight attendants left to go down with the plane.

  27. Beans not brains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The company that started with nothing now does not know how to turn what used to be the world's pre-eminent phone manufacturer into something profitable. Meanwhile, other phone manufacturers are killing it. What's missing from this picture? Vision. Skill. Execution. It's all just about the numbers now. Did we make money on that? Nope. Kill it. MS has been completely overrun by business school grads. After Microsoft plummets to the earth, do you think B-schools will teach object lessons about the relative importance of B-school graduates? Hahahahahahahaha.

    Microsoft is the Polaroid of the early naughties. Once upon a time, all the stars were in alignment, and they had the perfect formula. Now - well, not so much. Have you heard a visionary statement from Redmond lately? Besides "we promise not to suck so much"? "Maybe we'll start to play nice with others, but no guarantees!" I guess the icons are prettier now, or so I've heard. Can someone please provide a reason that anyone should care about this company, besides the fact that we'll need to spend another decade or two cleaning up the mess they made?

    1. Re:Beans not brains by WillAdams · · Score: 1

      They're the only people making an operating system which:

        - runs on a wide variety of hardware and form factors
        - has a good handwriting recognition system
        - allows one to run arbitrary apps

      FWIW, I'm still fuming over being forced to quit using my just about perfect Fujitsu Stylistic ST4121 w/ its irreplaceable daylight viewable display, 'cause Microsoft needed to kick people off Windows XP and the web is now using so much JavaScript a 933MHz Pentium III w/ 768 MB RAM (and a 4GB SSD) can't browse it.

      Best option I could find was a Toshiba Encore 2 Write 10 (tried an Asus Vivotab Note 8, but the screen was too small and the digitizer gave out, otherwise, it worked well), but:

        - it runs Windows 8, which I mislike (and Windows 10 is looking to be worse on the tablet front)
        - doesn't have a daylight viewable display

      I suppose I should buy yet another docking station for my Stylistic (my wife and son killed the previous two somehow) and then try Linux on it again.

      --
      Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow.
  28. Lumia, the most expensive trademark buy in history by jonr · · Score: 1

    (NT)

  29. QtProject & QtCreator by jimtheowl · · Score: 1

    Any chance that part of the motivation for taking control of Nokia was an attempt to undermine Qt (commercial licensing now under Digia: http://www.digia.com/)?

    1. Re:QtProject & QtCreator by Schiller555 · · Score: 1

      There is a crapload of alternative GUI toolkits by now. Even if they managed to destroy Qt, the rest of the world would only be affected minimally. Many user companies would even be able to build their own GUI toolkit and in the process fix a lot of deficiencies.

    2. Re:QtProject & QtCreator by jimtheowl · · Score: 1

      I don't think that you get my point. I have no worries about Qt being destroyed, and those concerns were taken care of preemptively.

      If you think those 'Alternative GUI' tools measure up to Qt, I would be curious to know how. They are no threat to Visual Studio.

      That said, I would choose Qt/Qt-Creator over the Microsoft offerings given the choice for most C++ projects I can foresee.

      Perhaps you prefer something else, but that is another discussion all-together.

  30. Agreed re: Windows Phone by Fencepost · · Score: 1

    I agree - if I could get even credible substitutes for some of the apps I use regularly on Android, I'd switch over with no complaints.

    There are elements of Windows Phone that are actually very nice and that I miss on Android - I actually like the tiled interface on a phone screen where I loathed it on a PC. The ability to have variable-size tiles showing information means that I can fit everything nicely onto a single non-scrolling screen with easy access to all of it.

    --
    fencepost
    just a little off
  31. Microsoft did not buy Nokia by GodWasAnAlien · · Score: 0

    To be clear, Microsoft never bought Nokia.

    They bought the Nokia phone business, which was dying due to a switch to use Windows.

  32. Re:steve ballmer's legacy gets one last sucker pun by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Depending on how you look at it, Elop did a great job.
    1) The comapny was already dead
    2) He managed to get a lot of money for the company

    He did a horrible job. HTC made Windows phones too, but they were smart enough to also make Androids. Same thing with Samsung. Only Nokia was braindead enough to only make Windows Phones. Big mistake.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  33. Waste of money by countach · · Score: 1

    Couldn't every man and his dog see that this was always a total waste of money? If Microsoft wanted to make their own phones they always had the wherewithal to do it themselves. Besides which, Nokia was happily making their phones without them buying them. They should have just allowed that while secretly designing their own. Saved 8 billion or whatever. I don't know what these CEOs are thinking.

  34. Killed by stupid policies not just Symbian by Alok · · Score: 1

    Nokia was steadily losing market share due to not having any Android phones, nor a good competitor for iPhone. Their latest Maemo devices had good reviews, but were limited to high-end phones only and also were never offered for subsidized contract prices in the US (afaik).

    There were many better options for them to take, like having a good upgrade path for Symbian devs to create Maemo apps and not treating smartphones as a premium-only product that should not be sold in cheaper variants. They should also have been able to strike deals with US carriers for cheap smartphones that were free after 2 year contract - the Nokia at the time was still a well respected phone giant with great industry connections.

    Instead, their shareholders allowed people on the board with little interest in the company's future and more focus on getting short term gains for their portfolios. They got Elop as CEO, and the infamous 'burning bridges' speech killed off Symbian & Meego/Maemo in a single day ... with no replacement coming for around a year! I'm amazed that a majority of shareholders were clueless enough to keep him around after that speech, it was clearly obvious that he'd just declared *all* of their then-current product lines as obsolete.

    Right before Elop came onboard, Nokia had bought Navteq which gave them a chance to leapfrog Google Maps by offering a similarly comprehensive navigation app which also worked offline (at the time, GMaps didn't). Low cost smartphones running Maemo with Nokia Maps (now called Here) would have been an easy sell to people fond of Nokia hardware & reliability who wanted to dispose of their quickly-outdated standalone GPS devices.

  35. Differenciate by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Windows Phone actually made sense for Nokia: they needed a software stack that let them differentiate themselves (and no one else seemed to be using WP) and they had managed to set up their corporate structure in such a way that it was impossible for them to develop it themselves.

    Which by itself is - in the current state of affair - a pretty dumb move. Part of the attraction of iOS and Android is the huge amount of apps that do exist for them. There are tons of apps for either platform, and tons of users. By trying "something different that no one else seems to use already", you're mainly, trying to gain success with zero apps, when you competitors have millions.

    By trying "something as different as possible", Nokia cut themselves from huge ecosystems of apps. It's hard to convince million of app-maker to make even another version of their app for yet another smartphone OS wannabe (after they've already spent ressource in other not so successful ports like various versions of Symbian or Blackberry). Millions of apps aren't going to appear overnight, and until then you're not going to be attractive. Chicken and egg problem. (Funny how that, for once, Windows is at the receiving end of it, whereas Linux-kernel-based Android isn't).

    That's also what killed other great alternative smartphone OS (like Palm webOS. Even after buying by HP they didn't manage to change the situation). It was a nice OS, one of the best UI at multitasking. But was a late comer at the party and had no ecosystem to leverage (or more precisely: attempted to leverage the wrong ecosystem. webOS did feature a PalmOS compatibility layer. But by then, this platform was nearly dead and Android was all the latest craze).

    Luckily, Nokia's former developer didn't copy the same mistake while working as Jolla. They did deliver a very nice smart-phone OS (I like it nearly as mush as webOS), but they also provided an Android compatibility layer, so that at launch Sailfish OS doesn't lack apps.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  36. Apps. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    It's main drawback is the lack of apps (which is hard to fix, as no one wants to develop for a platform with few users and no one wants to buy a phone with no software).

    Luckily, the former Linux (Maemo/Meego) developer inside Nokia that got sacked and by that time had founded Jolla, have been aware of this problem.
    And they fixed it easily, by providing an Android compatibility layer for Sailfish OS.
    This way, you can have a new OS with lots new feature (nice UI based around Qt), but still can leverage the huge anroid ecosystem for any app that isn't ported to QML.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  37. Sailfish OS by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Now that I have used the N9 and Meego, I think that it is a big shame that Elop and MS killed it off. Makes me a bit angry.

    Luckily he hasn't completely managed to kill them. He just let them go. They founded Jolla and continued the work producing Sailfish OS which is quite a decent smartphone OS.
    (And also doesn't suffer from the same app problems. If something doesn't exist as a Qt app for sailfish, you can luckily run the android version on a compatibility layer that comes with your phone).

    The big problem with it is that many apps don't work because they make references to web sites and services that no longer exist. Not even the Twitter and Facebook apps can talk to home. You can't even put it into developer mode because it needs to download packages from now-non-existant servers. Plus, it is really slow on Wifi networks.
    {...}
    At least I was able to get the terminal app onto the N9, so I have a shell prompt. The package files are out there and there is a Sailfish OS port, so I can play with things and try to get it working better.

    I think too that the Sailfish port could a nice solution to salvage your old N9.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  38. Simple by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Use the NOKIA patent portfolio to threaten every phone maker into paying royalties...WHILE ALSO WRITING IT OFF!

    Great strategy M$. From an old article:

    Microsoft also bought the rights to license Nokia’s robust patent portfolio for 10 years. Microsoft is specifically buying 8,500 of Nokia's design patents, and will also make its patents available to Nokia for its HERE Maps unit. Nokia will also transfer its patent licensing agreements, including its big one with chipmaker Qualcomm, to Microsoft. Other patent agreements transferred to Microsoft includes those with IBM, Motorola Mobility (owned by Google), Motorola Solutions. Nokia also passes on patent agreements with Apple, LG, Nortel and Kodak to Microsoft.

  39. And Sailfish is still good. by DrYak · · Score: 1

    Maemo was good and would have allowed Nokia to maintain the control and distinctiveness they had with Symbian. With support for Android apps, it was a win-win. {...} Having their own OS with support for Android apps was a better solution.

    Luckily, the former Maemo/MeeGo guys didn't throw the ball, but formed Jolla and produced Sailfish OS for their phone, which is a very nice OS.
    And has the desirable Android compatibility layer.

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  40. Re:steve ballmer's legacy gets one last sucker pun by Uecker · · Score: 1

    Please don't spread this myth. The company wasn't already dead. It was at that time - by far - the biggest smartphone vendor, which was growing faster in absolute numbers than anybody else, and the smartphone unit was highly profitable.

  41. Cheerleading the demise by CauseBy · · Score: 1

    I only came to this article to post a comment disdaining Microsoft and hoping for their demise. I'm still mad about Internet Explorer in 1999.