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Kali Linux 2.0 Released

An anonymous reader writes: Kali Linux 2.0 has been released, together which an assortment of interesting new features. Most importantly, Kali is now a rolling distribution, using Debian Testing as their upstream source. (Download page.) There are also huge changes to the UI, including a fully fledged, custom GNOME 3 environment, as well as support for myriad other Desktop Environments. The maintainers describe the release this way: "If Kali 1.0 was focused on building a solid infrastructure then Kali 2.0 is focused on overhauling the user experience and maintaining updated packages and tool repositories." I'm enjoying 2.0 so far. What are your thoughts and comments?

58 of 109 comments (clear)

  1. So, what is the point? by danbob999 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    What's the goal of this distribution? Why would anyone choose it over Debian testing?

    1. Re:So, what is the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      From what we see in #debian on IRC, the point of Kali Linux is to create a #kali-linux channel that has half a dozen screaming teenagers with no clue what they are doing and no interest in learning. (This then spills into other channels because they've not managed to get their l33t cracker questions answered in #kali-linux.)

    2. Re:So, what is the point? by darkain · · Score: 4, Informative

      Summary sucks, so I went to the article to see what it was about... Basically it is a prebuilt penetration testing system. Now they're using the latest packages instead of older stale packages often associated with Debian, I guess?

    3. Re:So, what is the point? by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Well, they're using newer, less stale packages still associated with Debian. If you mentally characterize Debian as "stale" though, then chances are these packages are still going to be too old for your taste.

    4. Re:So, what is the point? by Narcocide · · Score: 1

      Oh yea, and I totally can't imagine why anyone might become frustrated enough with what passes for "being helpful" in #debian to fork it. /sarcasm

    5. Re:So, what is the point? by Vlijmen+Fileer · · Score: 2

      +1 For this.
      I was one of the first persons to start using Debian, when they were still on a.out... Even at that time already, the "being helpful" and "friendly support" were a sham. People in Debian IRC have always been introvert, rude and aggressive.
      Luckily all of that is more than made up for by the fantastic system that Debian is.

    6. Re:So, what is the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Kali is the successor to Backtrack Linux.

    7. Re:So, what is the point? by rp · · Score: 1

      *nod* I once tried Debian, intending to switch to it, but I never got beyond the initial installation attempt. The abrasiveness on #debian was my primary reason for giving up and never looking back. (Hint: pick a Debian derivative.)

    8. Re:So, what is the point? by rp · · Score: 1

      I have a name for people with your attitude. Do you?

    9. Re:So, what is the point? by fisted · · Score: 5, Funny

      You do realize that even a chicken can install Debian, so long as you put sufficient grain on the Enter key, right?

    10. Re:So, what is the point? by laurencetux · · Score: 1

      the problem is The Kama Sutra does not cover most programs

      AND NEITHER DOES WHAT MANUAL THE PROJECT HAS BOTHERED TO WRITE!

      Most of the time the programs you really need a good manual

      1 they use a wiki where 60% of the manual is "to be written" and or uses a setup designed to hide info

      2 the manual is for 3 versions back (and they changed things 2 versions back)

      3 the manual is just flat out WRONG

    11. Re:So, what is the point? by aaaaaaargh! · · Score: 1

      He has spoken very wisely, because the original AC post was indeed the rant of a complete moronic idiot and it is wise to call things by their name.

    12. Re:So, what is the point? by fisted · · Score: 1

      You realize that I couldn't care less, right? I've long since abandoned Linux for NetBSD.

    13. Re:So, what is the point? by hink · · Score: 1
      NO! This is the most ridiculous thing I have seen in this thread, and there are some doozies here.

      This is a distribution that collects numerous security monitoring packages, as well as packages that are typically used for active network and computer penetration testing. The distro makers chose the name "Kali" to draw on the "sinister and powerful" imagery. (not bashing Hindu beliefs, but that is the perception of "Kali" to most western people)

      --
      - speaking only for myself, as always
    14. Re:So, what is the point? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      To break your shit. Kali is the goddess of destruction.

    15. Re:So, what is the point? by morgauxo · · Score: 2

      Or.. the manual is 10+ screens worth of mostly obscure options that only one person ever used 20 years ago all listed in alphabetical order with no regards to relevance. Meanwhile all you really need is the syntax of that one really useful option that everyone should know.

      That's my experience with RTFM anyway.

      I wouldn't say that the answer is to go ask someone though. Ignore the manual AND the IRC. Go straight to Google. Someone else already asked your question. You are not a special and unique snowflake.

    16. Re:So, what is the point? by Jawnn · · Score: 1

      Summary sucks, so I went to the article to see what it was about... Basically it is a prebuilt penetration testing system. Now they're using the latest packages instead of older stale packages often associated with Debian, I guess?

      Well, yes. If you don't know what Kali Linux is all about, the summary will certainly leave you wanting. Assuming that everyone here on /. is already familiar with this or that piece of tech, no matter how obscure or specialized, is something of a pattern with the editors here.

    17. Re:So, what is the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Its clear you don't pen test for a living. Kali is great one ISO with all the tools for testing you'll ever need. It used to take me a couple of days setting up a pen test machine going and getting tools and individually loading the tools. Plus updating those tools was a pain. With Kali all the tools are right there and updating is just a matter of apt-get update and everything is updated. Also the fact it is built on Debian is great.

      Kali is a special purpose distro and not for general use.

      For pen testing it the best thing since sliced bread. IT sure makes my job easier. I use Kali everyday and love it.

  2. My thoughts - wtf is Kali Linux? by bigdavex · · Score: 5, Informative

    That was a coy description.

    About the Kali Linux Distribution

    Kali Linux is an open source project that is maintained and funded by Offensive Security, a provider of world-class information security training and penetration testing services. In addition to Kali Linux, Offensive Security also maintains the Exploit Database and the free online course, Metasploit Unleashed.

    --
    -Dave
    1. Re:My thoughts - wtf is Kali Linux? by p0p0 · · Score: 4, Funny

      The first 2 lines of your post led me to believe you were either going to write a poem or a rap. I was disappointed.

    2. Re:My thoughts - wtf is Kali Linux? by sconeu · · Score: 1

      Andrew Marvell wrote the description.

      --
      General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
    3. Re:My thoughts - wtf is Kali Linux? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      To understand Kali, you must back track.

    4. Re:My thoughts - wtf is Kali Linux? by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Had we but world enough, and time,
      This systemd, coder, were no crime.
      We would sit down and think which way
      To write init scripts our long love's day.

      But at my back I always hear
      Binary logging hurrying near;
      And yonder all before us lie
      Security exploits of vast eternity.

      And your quaint boxen turn to dust,
      And into ashes all my private keys:
      The internet's a fine and public place,
      But none, I think, should trust there systemds.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:My thoughts - wtf is Kali Linux? by Chrisq · · Score: 1

      That was a coy description.

      About the Kali Linux Distribution

      Kali Linux is an open source project that is maintained and funded by Offensive Security, a provider of world-class information security training and penetration testing services. In addition to Kali Linux, Offensive Security also maintains the Exploit Database and the free online course, Metasploit Unleashed.

      That was a coy description.
      About the Kali Linux Distribution
      They used it in a power station
      And suffered 'lectrocution

  3. Re:moron editors by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

    And nobody knows this better than me.

  4. systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Maybe you haven't heard, but Debian switched to using systemd a little while ago. The results have been, how should we put it, not so good. Although unwanted by much of the Debian community, systemd was forced into use through political maneuvering. It was then forced through unstable and testing much too soon. Many long-time Debian users suffered from broken installations. Ever since it ended up in Debian 8, a supposed "stable" release, far too many people have experienced problems with it. Many of its problems actually can't be fixed; they're inherently broken by their very nature. Its use of binary logging is a perfect example of this. The only way to fix binary logging is to not use it at all.

    Due to how disruptive systemd was to Debian, both politically and technically, the Debian community has been split. There is the small minority who pushed for the inclusion of systemd in the first place. A small number of fanatics went off and tried, unsuccessfully, to fork Debian in to the failed Devuan distro. Many other Debian users have chosen to move to other operating systems that offer greater stability and robustness, including FreeBSD, OpenBSD, OS X, and even Windows.

    What was once the most talented and helpful Linux community has been shattered and fragmented. The most awful thing about this whole ordeal is that it wasn't Microsoft, or SCO, or anyone outside of the project that caused so much harm. It was a self-inflicted destruction! The greatest harm to Linux isn't some corporation; it's those within the community who wish to force problematic software like systemd upon all Linux users.

    1. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by Martin+Blank · · Score: 2

      It does now, as of Kali 2.0, which is based on Debian 8. Its presence can be verified by running dpkg -l | grep systemd to find the installed packages, ps aux | grep systemd to find the processes, and trying to start a service that won't start for some reason to get the notes about running systemctl status something.service to find out what happened.

      Most of the services themselves seem to show up in /etc/init.d, though, so there's still lots of init script use.

      Neither of these points bother me, though I'm going to have to get used to a few new commands.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    2. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Linus Torvalds likes systemd, and he's OK with it, I'm OK with it. So shut up troll.

      I don't use Linux, but it appears to me that you're the actual troll. The poster was making a well-reasoned argument related to the fact that Kali Linux (like Devuan) does not include systemd in its default installation. But instead in engaging in a discussion about his argument, you make an appeal to authority (Linus Torvalds) then command the poster to "shut up". That's the very definition of a troll--you're derailing the logical argument are replacing it with emotional vitriol.

    3. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by Pulzar · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The poster was making a well-reasoned argument related to the fact that Kali Linux (like Devuan) does not include systemd in its default installation.

      The poster's argument was quite irrelevant and off-topic, because Kali 2.0 does actually use systemd.

      --
      Never underestimate the bandwidth of a 747 filled with CD-ROMs.
    4. Re: systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by keneng · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I use Debian unstable. It's wonderful with gnome and where necessary lxde is good too. Kali 2.0 on USB 3.0 boots up fast on 2 laptops, a server and desktop I tried. Intel and and CPUs. Systemd is looking good IMHO. The only problems I have are building Kali images for amd64 and armhf myself. It didn't build successfully for me. This points to some rough spots live-build. I'm also experiencing live-build pain directly on two boards armhf with ROCKCHIP. More docs and support from Rockchip directly would be nice.

    5. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Many long-time Debian users suffered from broken installations.

      Really? I would be interested if you had a citation for this, because from what I've heard, systemd has worked tolerably well for most users.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    6. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by goarilla · · Score: 1

      Let's be honest here. Is a new (inherited debian) init system really relevant to a pentester's distro ?
      No.

    7. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Many of its problems actually can't be fixed; they're inherently broken by their very nature. Its use of binary logging is a perfect example of this. The only way to fix binary logging is to not use it at all.

      # ps -ef | grep syslogd
      root 583 1 0 Aug11 ? 00:00:00 /usr/sbin/rsyslogd -n
      root 4966 4468 0 14:09 pts/7 00:00:00 grep syslogd
      # cat /etc/debian_version
      8.1

      What is your problem?

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    8. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      There is the small minority who pushed for the inclusion of systemd in the first place. A small number of fanatics went off and tried, unsuccessfully, to fork Debian in to the failed Devuan distro.

      I make no judgement on whether Devuan has failed, I see the same level of activity on their mailing list as usual.

      My problem with Devuan is that I don't understand what they're trying to do.

      From Jaromil's recent "Devuan @ CCC camp, 15 august" announcement: "Devuan is a fork of Debian which removes its new dependency on systemd. "

      But Debian doesn't have a depencency on systemd. So what is the fork for?

      systemd is the default init system in Debian Jessie. Think about that. The default. If something is the default that implies there are alternatives. And there are. Debian Jessie has a dependancy on the "init" package which in turn depends on "systemd-sysv | sysvinit-core | upstart", so no, Debian does not depend on systemd.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    9. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by Eunuchswear · · Score: 1

      Neither of these points bother me, though I'm going to have to get used to a few new commands.

      You don't even need new commands, service, invoke-rc.d and so on still work.

      systemctl status is great though.

      --
      Watch this Heartland Institute video
    10. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by IMightB · · Score: 1

      Dude, I dont know WTF your talking about,

      I recently have been porting squeeze/wheezy custom SW to jessie, and getting rid of the old 100+ sysV bash init scripts has been wonderful. the service files are now like 9-12 lines long 3 lines of which are [] ini style segementation. 1 is a description and the rest just works. Simple as shit, haven't had a single failure or issue. The more I use systemd the more I like it. Please point out or provide links to the "not so good issues" you mention

    11. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      Kali switched because Debian switched. It's that simple. The OffSec crew is interested in getting tools to run on a base distro so they can focus on the tools and let the upstream distro handle other problems. Since all the work had been done on getting things working with Debian, changing to another distro probably was not viewed as especially desirable (especially since most other distros use or are planning to use systemd anyway).

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    12. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      apt-get install cinnamon

      Or whatever other DE suits you, as long as its available on Debian 8.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
    13. Re:systemd is one reason not to use Debian. by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      Devuan is an attempt to create a distro that does not have an option for systemd. I find it ironic that in criticizing the lack of choice in other distros, they're creating a distro with a lack of choice.

      I expect that as more people get used to/grow up with systemd, it will fall by the wayside and turn into a niche distro. That's cool if it happens--lots of niche distros are still around years later--but it's not likely to be taken seriously in enterprise environments.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  5. Please stop seeding! by Bengie · · Score: 2

    Holy crap bufferbloat! 20% packetloss. No, not my connection, everyone else. Egress on my LAN is only 80Mb/s, but ingress on my WAN is over 100Mb/s and maxing my connection. Trace route some of those peers that I was downloading from. Low pings all the way into their ISP, then 1-2 hops before hitting the peer, pings skyrocket into the thousands.

    Why am I seeing a 20Mb/s difference between WAN ingress and LAN egress? Those are all retransmit packets that my stateful firewall is filtering out.

    If your connection has massive amounts of bufferbloat, please don't seed. You're DOS'n my connection.

    1. Re:Please stop seeding! by Bengie · · Score: 1

      The issue is peers with massive bufferbloat and using TCP. I do a lot of seeding because of my symmetrical connection so I have my connection limit up quite high. Normally I have a solid 9ms ping to Chicago, but when I'm getting DDOS'd by a bunch of bufferbloated seeders to the point that I am getting 20% packetloss, my ping is at a sky-high 45ms! That's also some of the issue. Even under a DDOS my ping never goes higher than about 35ms over idle.

      While I got TCP on bufferbloated connections sending 20Mb/s+ of duplicate packets, uTP isn't backing off correctly because its primary metric for measuring congestion is latency. My latency at max only increase by 35ms, even with 20% loss from the DDOS. No bufferbloat on my ISP here. Strange things happens when congestion control algorithms assume latency goes up dramatically with congestion.

      The saving grace is qBitTorrent was self limited to 10MiB/s and I was getting exactly that, even with all the loss. I think my ISP uses a fair queuing AQM, so ICMP may be seeing loss because it just so happened to share a bucket with a heavy flow, but any individual data flow may not. This allows some subset of my connections to run mostly unaffected.

    2. Re: Please stop seeding! by Bengie · · Score: 1

      Chicago 9ms
      New York City 35ms
      Atlanta 40ms
      Dallas Texas 40ms
      Miami 45ms
      LA 60ms
      London 90ms
      France 90ms
      Frankfurt 110ms

      Heck, New Zealand is only 200ms and under 5ms of jitter :-)
      Network Graphs: https://lh3.googleusercontent....
      DSLReports Bufferbloat 32/16 Test: https://lh3.googleusercontent....
      DSLReports Jitter Test: https://lh3.googleusercontent....

  6. Whatever you do... by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ...whatever you do, don't give us any fucking clues as to what the features of interest might be or why we might be interested in this particular distro.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:Whatever you do... by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 2

      ...whatever you do, don't give us any fucking clues as to what the features of interest might be or why we might be interested in this particular distro.

      They told you in the summary what was important; that it had rolling updates.

      But seriously, that it absolutely true. I used to hate companies that insisted on having a mission statement on their websites, but it is something that is essential for the myriad of Linux distros and other open source projects that waste the front page of their websites with the change log. "Great, I know what has changed, now what is the program about?"

      In this case, their front page does give a simple explanation of the purpose of the distro; that it is a "penetration testing platform". I guess if you don't know what that means that the product isn't meant for you. But how useful would it have been to have those three words in the /. summary?

      They also have a fairly simple features page.

    2. Re:Whatever you do... by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      But how useful would it have been to have those three words in the /. summary?

      They would have been very useful, because I would have instantly known that this distro wasn't meant for regular desktop users and I would have moved on. But the editorial standards at /. have dropped in the last ten years to the point where I'm losing interest in the site altogether.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    3. Re:Whatever you do... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How could you have been reading slashdot for a decade and not know what Kali is? You need to get out of your hole every once in a while.

    4. Re:Whatever you do... by Gadget_Guy · · Score: 1

      How could you have been reading slashdot for a decade and not know what Kali is? You need to get out of your hole every once in a while.

      Seriously? Do you know how many distros are out there? It is not one that I have needed to use until now because frankly I don't have the patience to wade through each one once I had found one that worked well enough for me.

      Your attitude is similar to those who howl at people who ask questions in forums, telling them to RTFA. You blame people who aren't as interested in Linux as you are. That is the epitome of what is wrong with open source software.

    5. Re:Whatever you do... by hink · · Score: 2
      I think perhaps your definition of "just another OLD guy" might not match that of people who are, in fact, old guys. I really can't imagine someone with a 7 digit Slashdot number thinking they are "old".

      True, it wouldn't have cost the editors anything to include a simple parenthetical mention - something like "Kali Linux (the security and penetration testing distro)".

      HOWEVER, it isn't completely unreasonable thing for a Slashdot editor to assume someone who has read Slashdot for a while (say, maybe 10 years) might have heard of Kali (and its predecessor Backtrack). Kali is rather well known to anyone who has anything to do with computer and network security. Which, is a rather large swath of the Slashdot community.

      Right or wrong, the Slashdot editors have always tended to editing for non-casual readers. If you truly had been reading Slashdot for 10 years, you might have seen the three other articles that included it since it launched in 2013. Or the eight articles that mentioned Backtrack Linux since 2010. Or the four articles that occurred since 2005.

      --
      - speaking only for myself, as always
    6. Re:Whatever you do... by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Seriously? Do you know how many distros are out there? It is not one that I have needed to use until now because frankly I don't have the patience to wade through each one once I had found one that worked well enough for me.

      Exactly, and thank you for pointing this out Gadget Guy. Why in the world should I know about some specialized pocket distro that barely anyone else has heard of?

      The fact is that I have a life, a wife, a job, a home, and I simply don't have time to suck slashdot's dick all day long, slobbering over every article like it was handed down from on high.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    7. Re:Whatever you do... by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

      I think he got off of your lawn. Here, have a beer.
      Kali is a very specific distro used for attacking other machines for weaknesses. If you don't know how to use it, don't. Take a course where they explain it and show you how to use it. Not cheap, however it's worth it. It'll open your eyes really wide. I know I have over 30 years of experience, I've broken many machines in the past. They surprised even me. I had work to do.

    8. Re:Whatever you do... by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 1

      I've been reading Slashdot since it was Chips & Dips, and I'd never heard of it, either. AC can go suck it.

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
  7. I've been too hard on Gnome 3 by msobkow · · Score: 1

    Due to numerous issues with the latest release of KDE as delivered with Ubuntu 15.04, I switched to Gnome 3 after close to a decade of relying on KDE for my desktop. I must admit I've been too hard on Gnome 3 over the years. Although it is different and not intuitive, I did figure out how to do what I needed to do within a day, and am now quite comfortable with it.

    Perhaps most important on an older system like mine, I find it is much more responsive than the latest releases of KDE.

    The thing that used to make me stick with KDE was the plethora of configuration options. Most of that functionality has been stripped from the newer releases of KDE, leaving me with no reason to stick with that desktop.

    The real showstopper for KDE was when I couldn't get it to automount my camera when I plugged it into a USB port. I spent over 4 hours screwing around with it before I gave up. What good is a desktop that can't even deal with basics like that?

    --
    I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
    1. Re:I've been too hard on Gnome 3 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      vtwm, baby, vtwm. Stable since.... dear lord, it came out in 1990. It's probably older than most voting Libertarians.

  8. Unsigned software updates? by cpm99352 · · Score: 1

    Last time I checked, Kali had an issue in that updates were provided via an unsigned process (thus vulnerable to MITM attack). Is this still an issue?

    1. Re:Unsigned software updates? by Martin+Blank · · Score: 1

      They're signed. Kali even ran into an expired certificate not too long ago that caused a bunch of warning messages and errors. Easily fixed with a single line, or avoided if one was updating regularly, but still present for enough people.

      --
      You can never go home again... but I guess you can shop there.
  9. Don't tell me what it's GOT, say what I can *do* by petes_PoV · · Score: 1

    The release claims a long list of changes: new versions of this and that.

    But nowhere on the release page does it make any mention of what that means to the end user. If I run this, or upgrade from release 1, what will I be able to do, that I couldn't do before?. I don't care about features and versions or rolling this-that-or-the-other. What I need to know is why should I spent time and effort getting it, installing it and using it?

    Since the announcement makes no mention, it would not be unreasonable to assume there aren't any actual, end-user, benefits. Or they'd be headlining the piece, right?

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
  10. Irony by jurgen · · Score: 2

    For a distribution presumably targeted at security professionals it is rather ironic that when I try to look a their homepage I get the following:
          Javascript is required. Please enable javascript before you are allowed to see this page.
    I have to make myself vulnerable before I am "allowed" to see their homepage? Heh. Nice try.

  11. Re:Ubuntu still has the user base by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I run it full time, but I'm not an idiot because I can spell "you".

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."