More Cities Use DNA To Catch Dog Owners Who Don't Pick Up Waste

dkatana writes: For many cities one of the biggest cleaning expenses is dealing with dog poop. While it is impossible to ask the birds to refrain from splattering the city, dogs have owners and those owners are responsible for disposing of their companion's waste. The few who shirk their duty create serious problems for the rest. Poop is not just a smelly inconvenience. It's unsanitary, extra work for cleaning crews, and in the words of one Spanish mayor, on a par with vandalism. Cities have tried everything from awareness campaigns with motorized poo videos, to publishing offenders names to mailing the waste back to the dog owner. In one case, after a 147 deliveries, dog waste incidents in the town dropped 70 percent. Those campaigns have had limited effect and after an initial decline in incidents, people go back to their old ways. Which has left many cities resorting to science and DNA identification of waste. Several European cities, including Naples and one borough in London, are building DNA registries of pets. Offending waste will then be tested and the cost of the analysis charged to the dog owner, along with a fine.

Comments

Sure it's expensive

[WSOGMM]

In the US, it's a lot harder to clean up all the trash that people throw on the ground.

Re:Sure it's expensive

[ruir]

I have my personal theory in that. It is not in interest in the powers that be of some countries to investing in that kind of education, because as long people talks about trash and poo, do not talk, and move their worries to other things.

Re:Sure it's expensive

[davester666]

That's what happens when most people come from somewhere else...

Re:Sure it's expensive

[Bruinwar]

Maybe it depends on where you're at in the U.S. My perception is locally here in Michigan, litter are not nearly as bad as it was in the 60-70s. However, I was in Brooklyn last year & was shocked at the trash everywhere. There were garbage cans, lots of garbage cans everywhere. Go figure.

In London it wasn't great either but I never saw a litter can anywhere. I assume because of the years of anti-terrorism as cans make a good place to put explosives.

Re:Sure it's expensive

[Lawrence_Bird]

Beyond the singling out of dogs (cats anyone? hmmm?), poster is correct in that there are certainly far more pressing cleanup needs before going to these lengths. Are they going to start using DNA to figure out who dropped the gum? candy wrappers? used tires?

Re:Sure it's expensive

[Tempest_2084]

One thing Michigan has going for it is the 10 cent deposit on carbonated beverage containers (soda, sparkling water, etc). Yes it's a cost up front, but you never see cans with a deposit on the ground. Someone is always scouring the roadsides looking for cans to get a little extra money. Heck, I supported my childhood candy habit by collecting cans that was (construction sites were always a goldmine). In contrast when I go to other states without can deposit laws (like Wisconsin) I see cans everywhere. No one bothers to recycle them because there's no money in it.

I always thought that if they extended the can deposit to other easily recycled items then you might see less trash on the roads. Unfortunately this is basically a tax, and no one will ever go for that.

Re:Sure it's expensive

[Bruinwar]

Completely agree. Deposit law passed in 1980 (or so I think) & the very next day after it was live, everything was cleaner. Not just the cans & bottles, people seem less likely to toss other stuff when things are clean.

Re:Sure it's expensive

[Swave An deBwoner]

In NYC, in the late 1950s, a small soda bottle had a 2-cent deposit and a large soda bottle had a 5-cent deposit. In 2015, all soda bottles have 5-cent deposit. Think about the inflation from 1950s to 2015 and wrap your head around the fact that it basically did not touch bottle (and can) deposits. The streets here always have broken glass because slobs just toss their empty beer and wine bottles. The roads are cleaned regularly by the city sanitation department but the sidewalks are not; each apartment, business storefront, or home owner is responsible for cleaning their own little portion of the sidewalk. Guess how well that works out.

Re:Sure it's expensive

[Tempest_2084]

10 cents seems to be the threshold. There are a few states that have the 5 cent deposit (NY and you mentioned) and it doesn't seem to work there. I guess people don't care about a nickle but dimes are serious business. Lord knows what they'd do for a quarter.

Re:Sure it's expensive

[cyberchondriac]

FWIW, (anecdotal bit here) Back in the mid eighties, I had an (ex)girlfriend (we're from the US) who got a to take a class trip to Greece, Rome and Paris, and when she got back she said Rome and Paris were filthy, that the streets were gross, she saw things like people peeing openly on busy street corners (Paris), boys heckling the group in Rome, trash everywhere, one toilet for an entire hotel floor, etc.. She did not come back very impressed with Europe. This was, however, decades ago; but it seems perhaps some should mind their glass houses.

Re:Sure it's expensive

[nmr_andrew]

A quick followup, but I largely observed the same thing in Paris in the late 80s. In the most "touristy" parts of the city, say along the Seine, near the Eiffel Tower, Notre Dame, Montmartre, the Louvre, etc., it was very clean. Off the beaten path, however, within 2-3 blocks things were just as dirty (if not more so) than anything I ever saw in New York City.

Re:Sure it's expensive

[Grishnakh]

Have you never been around a cat? Cats don't ever leave their poop out in the open, unless they're senile. It's instinctive for them to bury it. It pisses off some people with gardens (they'll bury their poop in the garden because the soil is loose), but you never have to worry about stepping on cat turds on sidewalks or in the lawn.

Simple solution

[JMJimmy]

Employ individuals to clean up the waste and pay for it by requiring yearly dog tag renewal which includes the "poo pickup" tax. Owners don't need to worry anymore, it creates jobs, and it's paid for by the people who create the problem.

Re:Simple solution

[sysrammer]

I don't let my dog poop elsewhere. Don't make this my problem.

Re:Simple solution

[DNS-and-BIND]

Then you're telling people it's OK to let their dogs shit everywhere. That's a bad idea. Moreover, the dogshit cleaners will be AWOL most of the time (government workers, you know) so there will STILL be dogshit on the streets all the time. Costs will go up every year, and the people who actually clean up after their dogs will be the ones who suffer the most.

Re:Simple solution

[hooiberg]

There is already an annual dog tax here, which can be up to 128 euro (140 USD) per for one dog, or up to 331 euro (375 USD) per year if you have two dogs, depending on the city where you live. But the ticket for even walking your dog without carrying cleanup bags is 140 euro (158 USD). So we do both...

Re:Simple solution

[Dahamma]

That's like charging a "speeding tax" to everyone on the road and then letting people drive as fast as they want.

It's a minority of the dog owners in most towns that don't pick up after their dogs. Charging everyone for a few shitheads violating the law is bad policy, no matter what the offense is.

Re:Simple solution

[dwywit]

Well, what about allowing a credit for people who do the right thing and pick up after their pets?

After they pick up the poo, they mail it into the relevant authority (along with a photo of the act, and a close-up of the dogs' ID tags/barcodes/whatever), and said authority issues them a credit against the cost of the poo-pickup-tax.

I mean, who wouldn't want to mail some poo to a govt. department?

Re:Simple solution

[Dog-Cow]

Pussies go in a litter box. Cleanup is fairly trivial.

Re:Simple solution

[JMJimmy]

It is your problem because there's shit everywhere. It may not be from your dog but it's likely going to end up under your foot. Kinda like saying "I shit at home so don't make paying for sewers my problem"

Re: Simple solution

[JMJimmy]

I doubt they could find enough people to hire. Do you know how much shit a dog can produce?

Watch "Pitbulls & Parolees" or "Dirty Jobs". There's not much people won't do for a paycheque.

Re:Simple solution

[JMJimmy]

Then you're telling people it's OK to let their dogs shit everywhere. [snip] Costs will go up every year, and the people who actually clean up after their dogs will be the ones who suffer the most.

You're not telling them it's OK, you're telling them that the more they let their dogs shit everywhere the more they're going to have to pay in tax every year. Want to pay a lower dog tag bill? Pick up after them otherwise, be prepared to pay for your pets shit.

Re:Simple solution

[Dins]

I wonder if we could genetically engineer dogs to poop barcoded turds.

Re:Simple solution

[Talderas]

Better idea. It's not a credit against the license but rather a check sent to the submitter of the dog shit. This way non-owners can clean up other people's shit and get paid for it. Require the shit to be sent via the post-office.

Re:Simple solution

[Golddess]

If the reason it is his problem is because there is shit everywhere, then it is his problem regardless of if he even owns a dog. In which case, why limit the tax to dog owners?

Re: Simple solution

[rickb928]

"There's not much people won't do for a paycheque."

So you also reject the theory that immigrants to the US are necessary to do the jobs citizens will not...

Or they will if it gets them out of their cell or on TV.

Re:Simple solution

[blue9steel]

Probably a lot cheaper as well.

Re:Simple solution

[jimbolauski]

I'm pretty sure you can just match the rifling on the turds.

Re: Simple solution

[JMJimmy]

Citizens will do the jobs, merely that they may not do them as cheaply/be willing to take the abuse that immigrants do.

Re:Simple solution

[lakeland]

I don't agree with this.

Roughly 90% of owners clean up their dog's poo. Requiring the vast majority to pay for the actions of a minority will a) not incentivise the minority to change behaviour and b) punish people that are doing the right thing (e.g. why should I keep being tidy when I'm paying to be untidy).

You'd get much the same effect putting the whole poo pickup tax onto general rates - lots of innocent people paying for the actions of the minority.

I initially thought the idea of using DNA was crazy but as long as the test can be made cheap enough I have decided I support it. Whack the people you catch with a big fine ($500?) and publicise the heck out of what you're doing, and I think the behaviour will suddenly trickle off to the point that the programme becomes cost effective.

Re:Simple solution

[JMJimmy]

Even with a big fine the cost of running a program like that would exceed a "poo pickup tax" easily. You've got the cost of the DNA test, someone to pick up the poo anyway for testing, mailing costs, fine collection, administration, etc. Doing it that way, everyone - including those without dogs, end up paying the very hefty price tag. Doing it as a yearly dog tag tax means you're targeting dog owners, you're eliminating all the costs of the DNA program except the employee picking up the poo, and the minority may not be incentivized but the responsible owners will want to keep the cost of the program as low as possible so they will act as 'poo police' in the sense that the social pressure they place on others to pickup after themselves becomes the deterrent/incentive for the minority.

Re:Simple solution

[CanadianMacFan]

Or if you aren't responsible enough to pick up after your dog then you can't have a dog anymore. It wouldn't be for one or two offenses but for an ongoing problem. There's an owner in my neighbourhood that regularly lets their dog go on the sidewalk. And from the evidence remaining it is a very large dog. This has been going on for over a year now. I don't think this person is responsible enough to own a dog. It's not a matter of going out once or twice and forgetting to bring a bag. They are just letting their dog do its business anywhere and leaving it.

Re:Simple solution

[martinfb]

Will never work. There is still poop out there until the cleaners get there. That is totally unsanitary in most places, like townhome communities where many folks use the parks and walks. Even the pee on my yard from dogs kills my grass! I am all for the DNA thing. Those hard-headed owners that think it is okay or 'normal' for their dog to poop anywhere they want w/o tending to it need to be rudely awakened somehow, and NOT at my cost or inconvenience.

Re:Simple solution

[Some_Llama]

don't we do that already? the tax is paid by those who are caught (or should i say stopped, since 90% of drivers are speeding at any given time except for traffic)

Re:Simple solution

[Some_Llama]

DNA tests are relatively cheap nowadays, parental testing is 100$

Re:Simple solution

[Some_Llama]

typed less than 100$ but formatting removed the less than character.

Re:Simple solution

[JMJimmy]

You'd need something more detailed than parental testing and that's probably the cheapest part of such a program.

Cost

[the_Bionic_lemming]

Above is the poo pickup cost which punishes all owners - but seriously - you pay the cop to forensically get poo. then pay the lab to DNA type the poo, then Search for poo matches.

Is that cheaper than just paying a few people to walk around and pick up garbage, clean up bird shit, scrape gum, and get rid of dog poo?

Re:Cost

[DNS-and-BIND]

It's training people not to let their dogs shit everywhere. After a while, everyone will know that if you let your dog shit on the street, it's going to come right back to you with a fine attached. So why even let it happen? Believe it or not, there are people out there (solipsists) who are convinced the laws don't apply to them. They don't just scoff at laws, they take great joy in breaking them. These little "quality of life" laws sound like piddly shit but they do make a difference in a crowded city. Don't do it and you end up like San Francisco, which has a huge problem with shit lying in the streets. It stinks to high heaven and you can smell it from a mile away.

Re:Cost

[Gavagai80]

There's still going to be homeless people with dogs in SF, so you've still got to clean it up. The DNA fines may make the job more manageable though.

Also, what about people who own horses? I see horse manure on the streets not infrequently, and it's a lot worse than dog.

Re:Cost

[Ukab the Great]

It's training people not to let their dogs shit everywhere.

Why not give them treats for good behavior and also have them spayed and neutered?

Re:Cost

[Dahamma]

It's a hell of a lot cheaper to the government if they then fine the owner $500 to pay for it all. Plus, it creates another half dozen city jobs!

Not exactly related, but I'm already thinking about the TV show pitches related to this... "CSI: Dogshit".

Re:Cost

[Dahamma]

"humanly" euthanize? So, like kill it in the most twisted, brutal, bizarre way possible?

Re:Cost

[Dahamma]

If you are living in a very rural town, maybe (in which case, the town should deal with it, but it's SO far from a global problem - either a totally isolated issue or, in the Bay Area, likely an utter 1% first world problem). If you are saying horse manure is a problem in SF, well, I call horseshit on that...

Re:Cost

[sjames]

Get the large box. If it fits, it ships.

I said SHIPS!

Re:Cost

[I'm New Around Here]

If you think people can't smell horse shit, ... Well, I dunno what that means, but you're wrong.

Re:Cost

[Oligonicella]

You sir or ma'am have not been around horse shit. Just an FYI, cattle crap stinks too.

Re:Cost

[Dog-Cow]

Euthanize the human, not the animal. Punish the one with the responsibility, not the innocent animal just doing as nature demands. It's not as if the dog can be trained not to do it. If that were possible, we'd have done it centuries ago.

Re:Cost

[drinkypoo]

No, it's not more benign, it's bad too - especially for people that are allergic when that refuse is spread by vehicles driving over the dung piles.

Time for you to learn English, so you can known what the phrase "more benign" means. What do you think happens to dog poop when it gets run over? You want to breathe that? mmmmm, parasites!

Re:Cost

[Anonymous Coward]

Is that cheaper than just paying a few people to walk around and pick up garbage, clean up bird shit, scrape gum, and get rid of dog poo?

Yes it is also more efficient.
If you get the dog owner to pick up the poo then there is no risk of anyone stepping in the poo in the time it takes for someone else to pick it up.

Same thing goes for gum and other litter. Unless you can get the people responsible for it to throw the trash in bins directly you have a situation where the trash is on the street until someone else comes and picks it up, that is, you have to accept that you live in other peoples filth.
Getting someone else to pick it up is a way to handle a situation where someone doesn't follow the rules to make sure that the trash doesn't stay there forever but it is not a solution that makes it possible for everyone to just litter everywhere.
Unless you make a democratic decision that the streets should be covered in an ever changing layer of trash there is no other option than that everyone avoids littering and that people who doesn't live by those rules gets fined. (Preferable with an amount that covers the cost of having people pick up that trash and the administrative overhead so that there is no cost left over for anyone else.)

Re:Cost

[drinkypoo]

Horse shit smells for a few hours, then it becomes a relatively benign damp wad of grass which is useful as compost. Dog shit smells for days, and it's omnivore poop, which is hazardous. You can catch horse shit as it falls out of a horse, then direct-apply it to your garden, and not only will it be good for your plants, but you are staggeringly unlikely to suffer any ill effects if you simply wash your hands. The parasites which dogs have are far more likely to infect you and also far more dangerous to you than those carried by horses. Anyone who thinks that horse shit is as bad as dog shit is severely unfamiliar with one or both.

Re:Cost

[drinkypoo]

I don't think I've ever seen dog shit in the actual street.

Guess you don't get out much.

Re:Cost

[dmt0]

In Canada all horses that you see on the streets belong to the Police. I'd say you should just pick that up and mail it over to the police departments!

Re:Cost

[Swave An deBwoner]

Can we do the same to motor vehicle operators whose engines spew cancer and asthma causing exhaust into the air and splatter carcinogen tainted oil onto the roads?

Re:Cost

[Swave An deBwoner]

Pet dogs generally don't have parasites in their gut and if they do pick something up (generally by drinking from a standing body of water like a lake) their owner will soon notice the symptoms and take them to the vet for treatment.

Don't be so afraid of dogs. Dogs have lived with, worked and cared for humans for thousands of years and the rewards to humans have more than exceeded the drawbacks (like occasionally stepping in some poop).

Re:Cost

[chispito]

Don't be so afraid of dogs. Dogs have lived with, worked and cared for humans for thousands of years and the rewards to humans have more than exceeded the drawbacks (like occasionally stepping in some poop).

You're comparing the benefits to the owner and the drawbacks for everyone else. A stranger's dog in no way benefits me.

Re:Cost

[Swave An deBwoner]

Funny thing about this world, sometimes a stranger (in this case a dog) can indeed save your life.
Often it's the dog's own family, but sometimes it's someone who just happened to need help and was lucky enough that their distress was noticed by a dog.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/georgia-bradley-dog-pepper_55d75fd3e4b04ae49703166e
http://theweek.com/articles/466829/7-inspiring-stories-stray-dogs-saving-perfect-strangers
http://www.dogguide.net/25-hero-dogs.php

Re:Cost

[cyberchondriac]

We've got a neighbor who does this to us now, but we haven't identified the SOB yet. Twice now recently, on a Sunday or Monday morning, we walk out to a huge steaming pile on our lawn. When I found out who the slob is, I'd delivering it to his house via airmail.. all over the windows, walls, door, porch, etc..

Re:Cost

[sjames]

I think paper bags are probably the best delivery container. Set it on fire to make sure they see it, wouldn't want them to accidentally step in it :-)

Re:Cost

[hucker75]

You have to register your dog?!?! I'm glad I live in the UK. We do not have to declare pets.

Re:Cost

[uninformedLuddite]

Wear a lot of lycra?

Re:Cost

[uninformedLuddite]

Place it under their car's door handles or alternatively push it down into the air intakes for their car's air conditioning.

Re:Cost

[Swave An deBwoner]

I'm not into lycra.

Do you live in a cage?

Re:Cost

[Speck'sBacon]

No. Suck it up.

Rub it in there good.

[Anonymous Coward]

I say when they are caught, we rub the OWNER'S face in it. Sure, it won't solve the problem, but, my god, it would be satisfying to see.

Re:Rub it in there good.

[Anonymous Coward]

I love this kind of faulty "I do know wrong, its the other guy" logic.

How is it faulty? I pick up my dogs poop. I have also stepped in poop that other people have left.

does that give me the right to rub your face in all the oil your car leaks on the pavement

When my car leaks fluids, I have it repaired, so yeah, I'd probably enjoy watching that too.

In fact, I think many problems in this world could be solved by rubbing peoples faces in the mess they leave for others to deal with.

Re:Rub it in there good.

[drinkypoo]

You mean like children? Pedophile!

Rubbing your face in a child is not necessarily inappropriate... haven't you ever heard of a tummy raspberry? Just make sure it's your child (etc.)

Re:Rub it in there good.

[CanadianMacFan]

Because it won't be fresh by that time.

Motorized poo videos?

[Leomania]

I can't quite grok what form this might take, but whatever it might be, it surely needs to be a Kickstarter campaign.

Re:DNA testing of waste?

[thegarbz]

The vast majority of cats bury their waste in unseen areas. The vast majority of dogs shit right on the fucking pathway.

In either case the noses that should be rubbed into it is the owner's.

Also for people?

[hooiberg]

Could this technology also be used for people who do not clean up their own feces, in parks and on streets?
As there are already a few tens of cases of dogs who eat junk poo, and suffer from the traces of the drugs...

Re:Also for people?

[cerberusti]

Your plan is to locate and fine the homeless based on DNA? Somehow I do not see that working well. Maybe long jail terms would work, but that removes the lack of a financial burden the fine is supposed to ensure.

The most effective way cities deal with that problem is to harass the homeless enough that they leave for a more favorable area, frequently by police beatings or turning a blind eye to crime against them.

Get some panhandling and vagrancy laws passed if you want to solve it, then make sure they are enforced. That ensures police contact, which will quickly provide a disincentive to be there.

I hate dogs

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate how people let them shit on grass meant for adults and children to walk/sit/play on (public green areas). Yeah, ok, you scoop it up and that totally removes it from the grass...

Get a real pet who knows how to shit in nice places, like a cat.

Re:I hate dogs

[ruir]

Amen. Here besides people letting them shit on grass, they do not pick it up. Every fucking patch of green is like a minefield. It is not only gross, it also spreads parasites.

Re:I hate dogs

[BlueUnderwear]

I worked Graveyard for a decade or so once, and a Neighbor moved in, with his Dog. Said Neighbor let his Dog loose during the day.

:-)

Bark, bark, bark, poop, poop, poop. The Dog, that is. Cats started to disappear. I finally got fed up; talking to the Neighbor was like talking to his dog. One late night, just before going to work, I used the Fireplace shovel to fling the latest deposit against his Garage Door. Note that I did not cross Property Boundaries; I'm pretty good at flinging Shit from the street. This went on for a week or so. The Door began to become encrusted. Neither the Dog nor Dog Owner gave a Shit. And then I called the Landlord, as Anonymous Coward: "You know that Rental that you have on Lake Street? Why is the Garage Door always covered with Dog Feces?" Dog and Dog Owner moved out. It turns out that Dog Shit is hell on paint; the Garage Door had to be re-painted.

I think that it was Farley Mowat that pointed out that Wild Dogs and Wolves bury their Scat, and the habit of pooping anywhere and everywhere was a habit picked up from their new Human Masters.

In days of old, when Knights were bold And Toilets weren't invented They laid their Load beside the road And walked away contented.

God, I had hoped for a much better story after reading the first sentence :-)

Re:I hate dogs

[Coren22]

Some bad dog owners don't pick after their pets. Not a single cat owner picks up after theirs.

Many cat owners are responsible "parents" and don't let their cat roam outside of their house. Those cat owners most assuredly pick up after their cats.

Another "shitty" solution

[Anonymous Coward]

I doubt this new method will work any better than the other methods. But since they'll have actual evidence, I say this as a useful system that will end it:

  - Offense 1: You lose your pet for 7 days. $200 fee to pick it up at the pound after this waiting period.
  - Offense 2: You lose your pet for 30 days. $1000 fee to pick it up at the pound after this waiting period.
  - Offense 3: Immediate and permanent loss of ownership. $5000 "euthanasia" fee (but instead take the pet to another city for adoption).

I guarantee only psychopath owners will wait until the third offense to learn better.

Shit happens

[penguinoid]

Shit happens, deal with it.

Cause if you don't, we'll use DNA analysis to find and fine you.

Re:Not Shaming Hard Enough

[ruir]

Living in communities where every is literally giving a shit to their neighbours would be a very fit punishment... Lets make like singapore and chewing gum. Dogs outlawed in the city, problem solved. You want a dog, you buy a farm.

Hope that includes dumped dog poo bags

[rklrkl]

I have a long grass verge by the side of the road and several dog owners have taken to dumping their dog poo bags on it, which is bewildering. Why make the effort to collect the dog poo in a small black plastic bag, only to illegally litter it right afterwards? It's an on-the-spot 80 pounds = $120 fine where I live, but unless I install CCTV and review the footage (and even then identifying them might be impossible), they're never going to get caught by the local council.

Some scoundrel even *saved* 10 of their poo bags and then dumped them at various intervals along my verge. And, no, I'm not enemies with anyone local before anyone asks...

Re:Hope that includes dumped dog poo bags

[jittles]

I have a long grass verge by the side of the road and several dog owners have taken to dumping their dog poo bags on it, which is bewildering. Why make the effort to collect the dog poo in a small black plastic bag, only to illegally litter it right afterwards? It's an on-the-spot 80 pounds = $120 fine where I live, but unless I install CCTV and review the footage (and even then identifying them might be impossible), they're never going to get caught by the local council.

Some scoundrel even *saved* 10 of their poo bags and then dumped them at various intervals along my verge. And, no, I'm not enemies with anyone local before anyone asks...

They leave it there indefinitely? I walk my dog on a route that only has trash bins at the beginning of the route. Since I walk back the same way I came, sometimes I'll pick up the poo and leave it out of the way so I don't have to carry it for another 3 miles. I put in a GPS reminder on my phone to grab it on the way back. Depending on how fast we walk, it may sit there for a solid 30 minutes before I pick it up. But like I said, I try to put it in an inconspicuous and out of the way location.

Re:Hope that includes dumped dog poo bags

[drinkypoo]

Carrying around a bag of shit until you happen upon a garbage can is a little...demeaning I guess?

Think of how the poor dog feels, it has to keep you company all the time. Talk about demeaning.

Re:Hope that includes dumped dog poo bags

[SvnLyrBrto]

Actually, if you live in an urban area, carrying around a bag of dog poo can can be a fairly effective way of repelling crackheads, junkies, bums, spangers, petition takers, random crazies, and other assorted riff-raff now that pretty much everyone wears headphones and those are no longer an effective repellant.

Of course, you have to be walking a dog while carrying said bag of poo. Otherwise you become one of the random crazies yourself.

Re:DNA testing of waste?

[I'm New Around Here]

The vast majority of cats bury their waste in unseen areas. The vast majority of dogs shit right on the fucking pathway.

Of course dogs do that. Do you know how pokey grass is?

Re:DNA testing of waste?

[phayes]

Sure they do, like in playground sandboxes where small children can be infected by toxoplasmosis. People in big cities who let their cats outside deserve to be taxed too.

Re: DNA testing of waste?

[Zoxed]

Unfortunately the cats where we live bury it in the kids sandpit. Thanks.
  And, yes, the cat owning residents have been advised, and, no, nothing has happened.

Re: DNA testing of waste?

[dwywit]

Foreign animal in your yard? Don't you have the right to "restrain" said animal, and call the local authority to retrieve it?

When your neighbours have to start paying $X every time they let their animals stray, they'll soon do something about it.

I had to restrain a neighbour's dog once for hassling my free-range hens. I didn't mistreat it, merely grabbed it by the collar, walked it to the neighbour's place, and advised the neighbour of my rights regarding animals on my property - said rights including shooting her dog if it was hassling, attacking, or even playfully chasing my chickens. She wasn't aware of the rules concerning domestic and farm animals in rural areas, and, to her credit, apologised and promised to never let it happen again. And it didn't.

There is a pattern

[rikkards]

I find people who leave the poo happens more when there is no garbage cans nearby. People are lazy and don't want to be carrying it. Here there is one stretch where you don't see a garbage for over a mile along a major road. Needless to say you will see at least 3 or 4 landmines along the way.

Re:There is a pattern

[edtice1559]

I'm sure improving convenience helps, but there are some people who can only be influenced by exorbitant fines. My town has not only trash cans but poo bags located like every quarter mile, so there's no reason for not cleaning up other than being a selfish jerk. There are people who don't clean up.

Re: DNA testing of waste?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds like you have reasonable neighbors. From your story it's pretty clear that she cares about other people but just didn't think far enough to realize that her letting the dog run around freely could be an inconvenience. You could probably have solved the issue without implying that shooting the dog was on the table.

The problem here is psychopaths that thinks their convenience is more important than other peoples convenience.

In this case of the cat that shits in the kids sandpit I suspect that it will be problematic to catch it, cats are often a bit more shy than dogs.
Shooting it might be an option but regardless of the legality it will be tried. Firing weapons in urban areas is often frown upon and the neighbor is likely to bring up a lawsuit for killing their "family member".
It also sounds like more than one cat is the problem and not necessarily from the closest couple of houses.

There are ways to keep cats away from certain areas. An motion activated "watering system" that you can turn off when the kids are going to use the sandpit will teach the cats to stay away, but that is the impractical solution.
A more common way is to plant a few herbs that cats doesn't like near the sandpit. Cats are very sensitive to certain smells. Some people say that Plectranthus caninus works well but otherwise Tagetes is a flower that cats tend to avoid.
If you like garlic then that is another herb that cats doesn't like the smell of.
Pick one you like and grow it next to the sandpit. It should make the cats look for other places to take a crap in.

Re:DNA testing of waste?

[liquidsin]

in my neighbourhood, those "unseen areas" tend to be my garden, where i grow my food. i keep my cats leashed when they're outside and i wish everyone else would have the same courtesy. there was a woman on the news earlier this summer complaining that whenever she let her cat out it came home with a patch of fur shaved off. she couldn't seem to wrap her head around the idea that this would stop happening if she stopped letting her cat roam free around town.

Mailing it back is awesome, but DNA tests = $$$

[sabbede]

DNA tests are also time-consuming and forensic labs probably have more important things to do. That said, a DNA registry for pets could have many more important uses than figuring out who to mail the poo to (though I love the idea. Hope they label the package deceptively so people are fooled into opening it).

I suppose that if a municipality has the money, lab time, and desire to do it then they're welcome to do so, but given the testing backlog US cities face I have serious doubts that the results could come back in time to return the poo while still fresh.

Extra?

[jbmartin6]

"extra work for cleaning crews" How is it 'extra'? Cleaning crews are supposed to be cleaning and here is something to clean. That's just work, not 'extra work.' Now if the citizens would rather pay for more cleaning rather than do it themselves, I supposed that is their option. Just watch your step.

Re:Extra?

[Hognoxious]

Normal street cleaning basically involves sweeping up litter, leaves & dust with a brush (or using a mechanical equivalent of the same). If you do that with shit, you just spread (or throw) it around and you have a shitty brush afterwards.

Better hope that's not the type of job you get when you grow up. Because you won't be very fucking good at it.

Framing

[Translation Error]

Sounds like it'd be pretty easy to frame someone whose trash is accessible (or uses a public bin). And it's not like there's much someone could offer in the way of defense.

Re:Dog Poop Stations

[friedmud]

bags are cheap, and there are MANY biodegradable dog bags available (ex: http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/... )

Quit being an ass and pick up after your dog!

My apartment complex has many stations that are always fully stocked with bags: BUT I actually carry and use my own because it's more convenient than using the stations.

Because of the stations it is VERY rare for there to be poop lying around... even though there are TONS of dogs here.

Nice start

[Daetrin]

Can we extend this technology to people who spit gum on the sidewalk or toss their cigarette butts on the ground?

The only time i'm ever tempted by the idea of mass surveillance is when i think of the possibility of wreaking a little legal vengeance on all those people who fuck up public spaces for the rest of us because they're too lazy or sociopathic to bother handling their waste properly.

chronic condition on backcountry trails

[peter303]

Trailside poo bags are a chronic condition on backcountry hikes. I read peole dont want to carry the stink for hours. Once in a a while a park ranger writes litter tickets for people caught leaving bags, but not often enough.

Re: DNA testing of waste?

[morgauxo]

We prevented that problem from the start by putting a lid on the sandbox.

Yes, I know, we shouldn't have to do that. Cat owners shouldn't let their cats do that in our yard. How do you solve that though? Surveil your yard and then follow and identify any cat that ever comes by? Then go argue with each of those cat's owners? What do you do about stray cats? Catch them all yourself?

It's far more practical to just put a lid on it and be done.

Here's a cheaper way of dealing with shity owners

[denis-The-menace]

If an owner does not have a poop bag while walking their dog, offer them to buy a bag at $5 or a $50 fine.

A dog owner without a poop bag (Empty or full) is one that will not pick up.

Disclosure: I have many dogs and I carry # of dogs +1 poop bags on walks. I NEVER run out of bags.

State lines

[tepples]

One thing Michigan has going for it is the 10 cent deposit on carbonated beverage containers

According to an otherwise pro-deposit bottle bill FAQ, deposit laws like this require people to return empty containers in the same state in which the beverage was purchased. This discriminates against people in a state temporarily, who may buy a beverage in one state, drive across state lines, and finish consuming it in a different state.

Pick up my poop!

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

Deterrent tax

[tepples]

it is his problem regardless of if he even owns a dog. In which case, why limit the tax to dog owners?

Tax the people who cause the problem for others in order to encourage them to stop causing the problem for others. It's the same reason tobacco is taxed, as cigar and cigarette smoke causes medical problems for others. It's also the same reason motor fuel is taxed, as tailpipe emissions cause medical problems for cyclists and EV drivers, and road wear causes unevenness problems for cyclists and EV drivers.

Re:Deterrent tax

[Coren22]

as cigar and cigarette smoke causes medical problems for others

So, now that indoor smoking is prohibited, we should stop all the tobacco taxes, right?

All second hand smoking studies were done on people who worked in places where people smoked, not walked past a guy smoking in a smoking hut. When you can prove any harm from the whiff of smoke you get walking by a smoker, then you can complain, until then, go f yourself.

Re:Not Shaming Hard Enough

[Swave An deBwoner]

You cited the law but you forgot to add the smileys and, see what happens?

Health insurance

[tepples]

Increased health insurance premiums also cause problems for others, especially if a nationwide health care law forbids insurers to deny coverage for preexisting emphysema or preexisting nicotine dependence, and especially if the law includes a subsidy for people with an income in or near poverty to buy insurance.

Re:DNA testing of waste?

[OhSoLaMeow]

Of course dogs do that. Do you know how pokey grass is?

That's what it's all about.

Owning a pet is a privilege not a right

[bhopki3]

Owning a pet is a privilege not a right, one that you are free to exercise as long as you don't harm/impact your fellow citizens. And we don't like stepping in nor picking up your poop.

1. Increase the pet license fee to help defray the cost of "waste removal" from public property. Yes this puts more burden on the respectable pet owners, but they can help themselves by self-policing the bad pet owners in their community. Stop being polite and ignoring bad behavior when you see it - chew the offenders out.

2. Also use part of the increased fee revenue to add more animal control officers or police. Give them the authority and responsibility to catch more offenders and issue civil infractions with substantial penalties.. $200 USD first occurrence, 4-5x that for the second occurrence. Unpaid bills automatically promote the offender to strike 3..

3. Just like baseball, you get 3 strikes. On third offense, revoke the pet license and take their pet away.. permanently. Furthermore, put a ban on issuing the individuals or their immediate family members another pet license for 5 years or more. Its not the animal's fault surely, but some folks will never change behavior without threat of severe consequences.

To avoid a John Q scenario

[tepples]

If I wonder why calls to repeal US Medicaid entirely were not more widespread, even prior to the ACA. Perhaps the answer is that some level of government services, such as guaranteed health insurance, reduces the rate of violent crime to obtain those services by force. (Citation: the film John Q.)

Law enforcement would love another gentic database

[DeathByLlama]

So if law enforcement is able to keep a database of animal DNA, and match that back to an owner... what's to stop them from using that database for other, perhaps more "interesting" crimes? An owner putting their pet into this database (or getting a pet already in it) would be tantamount to putting themselves in the database, considering the amount of pet material that an owner sheds.

Re:DNA testing of waste?

[I'm New Around Here]

Hold your BM in
Push your BM out
Hold your BM in and shake it all about
Feel the grass is pokey and find smoother ground

Re:Computer glitch rocks Mutual Fund Industry ..

[Dagvl]

I would think that talking about the subject of the discussion in said discussion shouldn't be very surprising, even if there are other worthy subjects out there (probably with their own discussion threads somewhere).

Re:DNA testing of waste?

[CanadianMacFan]

That's funny. Poor cat though.

I never understood why people let their cats roam about. What's the point of having a cat if you kick it out of the house all day? I've had a number of cats in my life and they have never been outside (except in a carrier to go to the vet). They have been perfectly happy being indoors and a lot safer too.

Re: DNA testing of waste?

[Zoxed]

Sorry: should have clarified: the sandpit in question is in the shared area of the apartment block gardens so we can not stop the cats being there, but would like to stop them leaving anything behind !
(We have an ultrasonic/movement detector type device covering our small, private area, and that seems to mostly work !)
Also sounds like you have a good neighbour there !