Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Copenhagen's New All-Electric Public Carsharing Programming

Posted by samzenpus on from the take-a-ride dept.

dkatana writes: Residents in Copenhagen have a new all-electric, free-floating, carsharing service. DriveNow is launching 400 brand new BMW i3 electric cars in the Danish city. The service is one-way, and metered by the minute. The big news is that residents can sign-up on the spot taking a picture of their drivers' license and a selfie and use their public transport accounts to pay. There will be a car available every 300 meters, the same distance as bus stops. The cost will be 3.50 kroner ($0.52) per minute driven. If members decide to park the car for a few minutes continuing the rental, those stationary minutes are charged at 2.5 kroner ($0.37). The maximum charge per hour is capped at 190 kroner ($28.50). There is no annual fee.

51 of 84 comments (clear)

  1. Or for slightly less per month by tompaulco · · Score: 2

    Or for slightly less per month based on average monthly usage, you could buy, insure and fuel an I3 and when you got tired of it, you could sell it and get some money back.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    1. Re:Or for slightly less per month by kamapuaa · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not intended to completely replace cars for every resident of Copenhagen (with a population far greater than 400). It's surely intended as an occasional thing for people who don't have a car, or took public transportation into the city center.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    2. Re:Or for slightly less per month by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Average monthly usage of who, exactly? This isn't intended to replace cars for people who want to spend 2.5 hours/day commuting, it's intended as a supplement for people who don't usually drive but would like to occasionally, as an alternative to the bus or a cab or biking or walking. Just because you don't fall into that group doesn't mean that no such market exists.

    3. Re:Or for slightly less per month by murdocj · · Score: 1

      At $30/hr it sure doesn't sound like a big market.

    4. Re:Or for slightly less per month by hey! · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Depends on how much you use the car. Drive a brand new car off the lot to the used car dealer across the street, and you'll find the car is now worth about half what you paid for it. It takes a lot of 3.5 krona minutes to make that instantaneous depreciation seem attractive.

      Now if you're like most suburban-dwelling American, you spend hours a day in your car, so it just makes sense to buy it, or lease it long-term. But if you lived and worked in Manhattan you'd be nuts to own a car for transportation unless you were a gazillionaire. Just the cost of keeping the car would exceed the cost of renting one on the rare occasions you'd need it.

      I suppose most people in Copenhagen are in the same boat. It's far more walkable than most American cities and enjoys excellent bicycle and pedestrian public transit infrastructure. But every so often you and several of your friends might want to take a trip that's a little inconvenient to take by transit. If that's every day several times a day then sure, buy a car. But if it's only occasionally then it doesn't make sense to have a car sitting and depreciating in a garage somewhere.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    5. Re:Or for slightly less per month by quenda · · Score: 2

      Or for slightly less per month based on average monthly usage, you could buy, insure and fuel an I3

      I see. Its a good thing Copenhagen has plentiful free parking! (sarcasm)
      I think the real question is, how do they compare to taxis? These are not going to replace private cars, though it might be one part of the answer for people in the inner city.

    6. Re:Or for slightly less per month by vux984 · · Score: 1

      and you'll find the car is now worth about half what you paid for it.

      Depends on the car, but for most cars they are worth far more than half, despite the truism. The higher priced the car, the less they lose as a percentage.

      But yeah if you pay $30,000 and LITERALLY drive it across the street, there is no way the dealer is going to pay you more than the wholesale cost on the vehicle new.

      Think about it... why would he pay you more for your slightly used car than he could pay for a brand new car?

      But given the vehicle literally has under 5 miles on it, and you can show a bill of sale proving you've had it for all of 10 minutes, he will easily pay you a few k less than his wholesale cost, then list it for just slightly less than the car would cost new. (which of course is several thousand more than he gave you for it... because that's how business works.)

      If you want to get value for your used vehicle, sell it privately. Any dealer who buys your used car needs to buy it from you at a price where he makes decent enough money selling it that its worth showing up in the morning, after his rent, utilities, insurance and other expenses are covered. Not to mention any expenses on the vehicle itself, from detailing it to doing the brakes that you didn't mention were way past overdue... or whatever.

      The point is, buy a new car, drive it off the lot, and sell it privately and you'll be asking just slightly under what you paid for it. And you'll get it.

      Look at any car lot... are the 1 year old 2015 cars with 7-10k miles on them half the price of a brand new 2016 one? Nope. Not even close. Cars, outside of a few collectors items, are depreciating assets but they're not nearly as bad as you seem to think.

    7. Re:Or for slightly less per month by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      At $30/hr it sure doesn't sound like a big market.

      It is cheaper than a taxi, and cheaper than Uber, and way less hassle than a conventional rental car. Those are all multi-billion dollar markets.

    8. Re:Or for slightly less per month by jopsen · · Score: 4, Informative

      Or for slightly less per month based on average monthly usage, you could buy, insure and fuel an I3 and when you got tired of it, you could sell it and get some money back.

      Not in Denmark... 2 / 3 of car prices in Denmark are taxes... Energy is also more expensive..

    9. Re:Or for slightly less per month by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      The higher priced the car, the less they lose as a percentage.

      Hahahaha nope. A 1997 Audi and a 1997 Honda both cost around three grand now, but guess which one cost more to begin with? And you take a horrible bath on the most expensive cars (the S550s, the A8s, etc) in the first three years, almost without exception.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:Or for slightly less per month by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      It's surely intended as an occasional thing for people who don't have a car, or took public transportation into the city center.

      Exactly. This is not for people that drive every day. My house has three drivers (me, my wife, and my daughter). We also have three cars. 90% of the time we could get by with just one car. 99% of the time, we could get by with two. So we have the 3rd car "just in case". If these "rent-by-the-hour" cars were available within 300 meters of my house, I would definitely sell the 3rd car, and maybe even the 2nd.

    11. Re:Or for slightly less per month by GNious · · Score: 2

      Leasing a BMW i3, cheapest option, in CPH will cost you 211870 DKR for 36 months, or 31636.55 USD. This comes to about 0.136 DKR/minute, vs 3.50 DKR/minute for the rental.
      The difference is 25.7 times, or, for every 25.7 minute you have the lease car, you can drive the above solution for 1 minute, or, 6.5 hours of driving per week.

      If you only need it for odd trips once or twice a week, which, since you're living in a modern city (CPH) is more than likely, the 3.50 DKR/minute is miles cheaper than a lease-option, and still significantly cheaper than buying, insuring, fueling, and maintaining a BMW i3, even if we only look at direct costs, and ignore financing and time spent cleaning and maintaining a leased or bought car.

      Note: I didn't see a new-price for a BMW i3 on the BMW website, but a used-car dealer's cheapest option is a 2014 model for 299.885 DKR ...

    12. Re:Or for slightly less per month by houghi · · Score: 2

      Or for slightly less per month based on average monthly usage, you could buy, insure and fuel an I3 and when you got tired of it, you could sell it and get some money back.

      Depends on Usage. I do car sharing and as always YMMV (pun intended)
      I had a New Beetle that I bought 12 years ago. I cat 1.000EUR for it from the original price of 17.000. So that is say 750EUR per year devaluation.
      My insurance was around 900EUR per year, parking was 50 and maintanance was 300 or so a year on avreage. That is 2.000EUR per year.

      I now do car sharing. I get my public transport for free (company pays. Not uncommon in Belgium) and I use the car only to do shopping once a week. My bills are between 30 and 50EUR per month. So that would (looking at the top) 600EUR per year. And that includes fuel.

      So I gain 1200EUR per year easy AND I have the car that I want.

      This is not intended for all time use. This is intended for the occasional user. The website where I work with is www.cambio.be and they have cars in Belgium, some German cities and Ireland. They say that it becomes interesting if you drive less than (I think) 15.000KM.

      This is intended for those that do not drive a lot, so no home-work traffic. No holidays (I would then rent a car as I already did before). Short trips and occosial usage.Many will use it as a second car.

      As I said, I only use it for shopping. I was before paying for a car (in insurance) for a car that was standing in front of my house.

      Do the calculations and you will see if it is interesting for you or not. Look in your area if there are options like www.cambio.be and you light be amazed how many there are. I know I was. (advertising it, because more users will give me more options)

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    13. Re:Or for slightly less per month by zoltanse · · Score: 3, Interesting

      That's what I did when we moved to Berlin/Germany: Sold my car. My wife has the only car in the house.

      I have joined two carsharing services in case I need a car - one of them DriveNow as in the article. But that occasion pops up far fewer times than I originally thought.

      There is no guarantee to have a car nearby but usually there is one down the street. The iPhone app works great to locate the cars and provides a filter in case I want a specific model (do prefer the Mini).

    14. Re:Or for slightly less per month by fgouget · · Score: 1

      At $30/hr it sure doesn't sound like a big market.

      It is cheaper than a taxi, and cheaper than Uber, and way less hassle than a conventional rental car. Those are all multi-billion dollar markets.

      But then in Copenhagen you could also rent a car for the full day for about the same price. Sure it won't be a BMW but if the brand is the only reason for the higher price, that again justifies putting this offering squarely in the (narrow) luxury market. Even more so as they could have picked cheaper Renault Zoe or Bluecars for their fleet if price was the issue. Note also that Autolib', an equivalent service in Paris, rents their electric Bluecars for well under $15 per hour, so being cheaper is totally possible.

    15. Re:Or for slightly less per month by fgouget · · Score: 1

      Depends on how much you use the car. Drive a brand new car off the lot to the used car dealer across the street, and you'll find the car is now worth about half what you paid for it.

      That's incorrect. Car employees can typically buy two brand new cars with a 20% discount every year. So most of them are on a cycle where they buy a brand new car every 6 months and resell it for the same price 6 months later. This way they keep a brand new car at no cost forever.

    16. Re:Or for slightly less per month by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      We moved to Barcelona from Boston three years ago. Decided not to have a car here, the best decision we have done! Once you live in an European city with good public transport there is no need to own a car.

      We have only rented a car twice in Barcelona, once to go to Costa Brava and another one to the south of France. We paid €130 ($150) per week.

      Taxis are cheap here, and found everywhere. There is no car sharing such as DriveNow or Car2Go, just a Zipcar company, Avantcar that doesn't offer one-way trips. Hope Barcelona gets an electric carshare such as this one soon.

    17. Re:Or for slightly less per month by fragMasterFlash · · Score: 1

      Add a Copenhagen wheel to that bike and suddenly bicycle trips become enjoyable for all but the most sedentary among us.

    18. Re:Or for slightly less per month by vux984 · · Score: 1

      . A 1997 Audi and a 1997 Honda both cost around three grand now,

      Yeah, 18 years later most cars converge around a few thousand bucks. We were talking driving it off the lot. And I was thinking a little further up market than run of the mill Audi.

      The more expensive cars, honestly hold their value better for the first few weeks. Why? Limited supply and demand. If I want a 2016 Ford F150 there are plenty of them to be had; why would I settle for even a slightly used one unless I was going to save a couple thousand?

      But a new 911 Turbo or a Lamborghini... the numbers being shipped to the dealer are strictly limited, only so many are even coming into the country. If I want one of those... a very slightly used one isn't going to much of a "deal" because demand for new vehicles is outstripping supply; so there is a bit of a halo around nearly new.

      There's also a trend in the more expensive vehicles for the new year to be more expensive than the previous year. That helps to prop up used vehicle prices a bit too (as a percentage). In the more mainstream markets new is very price competive with last years new, so why would I pay anything clsoe to X for 2015 when X buys me 2016.

      But even so, yes all cars depreciate pretty hard and fast in the first few years.

      And you take a horrible bath on the most expensive cars (the S550s, the A8s, etc) in the first three years, almost without exception.

      You take your worst losses in first years. Definitely. Not just expensive cars. All cars.

  2. Re:i8 or nothing baby by mjwx · · Score: 1

    i3? Yuck.

    Yep the one car that is uglier than a PT Cruiser.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  3. Copenhagen really is the city of the future by GreatDrok · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I had the pleasure of spending a couple of weeks in Copenhagen earlier this year. The public transport is excellent, there are separate cycle paths with their own traffic lights everywhere, and now you can rent an electric car if you absolutely need one. We used the train a lot and walked around many Km too. It was easy to rent a car when we did need one but if I lived there it is highly unlikely I would want to own one because the traffic is pretty bad and the public transport offered is excellent. The car is such a dinosaur when it comes to getting around a city.

    --
    "I have the attention span of a strobe lit goldfish, please get to the point quickly!"
    1. Re:Copenhagen really is the city of the future by 0123456 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The car is such a dinosaur when it comes to getting around a city.

      There is no 'city of the future', because cities will be dinosaurs in a post-industrial age.

    2. Re:Copenhagen really is the city of the future by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      There is no 'city of the future', because cities will be dinosaurs in a post-industrial age.

      There is little evidence for that. As societies become technologically advanced, and people have more choice of where to live, they tend to be more urbanized. Housing in Silicon Valley is expensive, but workers don't live out in rural areas and commute in, they live in San Francisco, which is even more expensive, and then commute south to the Valley.

      Ask any rice farmer in China, and they will tell you their dream is to live in a skyscraper in Shanghai.

    3. Re: Copenhagen really is the city of the future by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      This is why rural phone lines need to be replaced with rural 10 Gbps fiber lines. The subsistence farming deal will be that much better with HD porn, videoconferencing, online gaming, loud high quality music, weather forecasts and frequent satellite or high altitude pictures/measurements etc. all served from a $100 desktop PC.

    4. Re:Copenhagen really is the city of the future by umghhh · · Score: 1

      So how many kids do you have?

    5. Re: Copenhagen really is the city of the future by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Chances are that if we go down the hill this way there will be no electricity and pr0n to go by even in locations where fiber were available before collapse. The reason for this, among other things, may be that collapse tend to be very unpleasant and violent thing. The other important one - once we run out of fuel, we may have problems with everything else not only energy.
      Good that this is not the only possible scenario. Nuclear or biological warfare being also available I'd say we run out of luck before we run out of fuel. Just think of this: with technology ever more powerful and ever cheaper and this many people on earth we have more idiots with more powerful means of killing and maiming others in the name of whatever. My preferred scenario however is that some of us at least, including my kids, will jump right trough the next bottleneck into the world of starship enterprise.

  4. Indianapolis as well by koavf · · Score: 1

    My city has a similar program: http://www.indystar.com/story/...

  5. every 300m? by just+another+AC · · Score: 2

    So they park them everywhere evenly to start with, and over time they cluster into groupings. How do they fix that? Will they have a fleet of drivers picking cars up to ensure spread of cars?

    1. Re:every 300m? by by+(1706743) · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think recall a service (car share? Bike share? Figment of my imagination?) where the price was greatly reduced, or in some way incentivized, if you parked in a specific spot. (Bikes tend to accumulate at the bottom of hills, not the top -- that sort of thing.)

      If properly incentivized, I suspect you could get your customers to de-cluster them for you.

    2. Re:every 300m? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      So they park them everywhere evenly to start with, and over time they cluster into groupings. How do they fix that?

      Usually when someone drives somewhere, they also drive back.

      Will they have a fleet of drivers picking cars up to ensure spread of cars?

      There is an obvious market-based solution: Reduce the price for the counter commute direction.

    3. Re:every 300m? by hvdh · · Score: 1

      In Hamburg, that's exactly what happens. I live next to a bar / party location. Some people come by those rental cars and leave by taxi or public transport. When there's mor than one rental car parked here, the next day someone comes and drives it away.

    4. Re:every 300m? by monkeyxpress · · Score: 2

      The Velib system in Paris. V+ stations at the top of hills give you 15mins extra free cycle time if you dock the bike at one.

  6. Re:i8 or nothing baby by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yep the one car that is uglier than a PT Cruiser.

    They chose the i3 for the same reason that US rental car companies use PT Cruisers: No one will steal them.

  7. Re:i8 or nothing baby by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Yep the one car that is uglier than a PT Cruiser.

    You forgot the first-generation Pontiac Aztek, and arguably, the VW Thing. But the Aztek is undeniable. It looks like the bounding box for a PT Cruiser. It looks like the shipping crate for a Citroen.

    I saw my first i3 recently, though, and I was stunned at just how ugly it is in person. Serious wow factor, as in, wow that is about the ugliest pile of shit I've ever seen. I think the technology is pretty nifty, but I wouldn't like to be caught dead in the same photograph as an i3.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  8. Re:i8 or nothing baby by mjwx · · Score: 1

    Yep the one car that is uglier than a PT Cruiser.

    You forgot the first-generation Pontiac Aztek, and arguably, the VW Thing. But the Aztek is undeniable. It looks like the bounding box for a PT Cruiser. It looks like the shipping crate for a Citroen.

    I rate the Aztek as being less ugly that the PT Cruiser, plus the Aztek never made it outside the US. I've seen a PT Cruiser Cabrio and thought it'd have to be the most useless convertible ever, You'd only be able to use it on unlit roads at the dead of night to ensure no-one saw you in it.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  9. Re:i8 or nothing baby by tompaulco · · Score: 1

    I saw my first i3 recently, though, and I was stunned at just how ugly it is in person. Serious wow factor, as in, wow that is about the ugliest pile of shit I've ever seen. I think the technology is pretty nifty, but I wouldn't like to be caught dead in the same photograph as an i3.

    If they made EVs look just like regular cars, then other people wouldn't be able to tell that you are making such a supreme sacrifice for the good of humanity and they wouldn't even realize how they should bow down and worship you as the savior of the environment.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  10. Re:i8 or nothing baby by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

    It's rare to see a 21st century car that's not ugly. They all look bloated, uglily shiny and look angry or pissed off for no good reason.
    Perhaps the car passive-aggressivity is done on purpose : people are meant to be aggressive and afraid of each other, so that they feel insecure and remedy that insecurity by buying consumer products, and they make distressed competitive workers too.

  11. Re:i8 or nothing baby by mjwx · · Score: 1

    I saw my first i3 recently, though, and I was stunned at just how ugly it is in person. Serious wow factor, as in, wow that is about the ugliest pile of shit I've ever seen. I think the technology is pretty nifty, but I wouldn't like to be caught dead in the same photograph as an i3.

    If they made EVs look just like regular cars, then other people wouldn't be able to tell that you are making such a supreme sacrifice for the good of humanity and they wouldn't even realize how they should bow down and worship you as the savior of the environment.

    A person in my car park owns an I3, on the back he's got a "Australian Electric Vehicle Network" sticker. I've been tempted to place another sticker below that saying "Proudly supporting the Australian tow truck and flatbed association".

    Then again, he's still bitter from when I posted a letter on his windscreen saying I didn't need his car parking next to me to make my Silvia look good.

    I have to wonder how many carbons a cummins 9L diesel puts out with an EV on the back.

    --
    Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
  12. Re:i8 or nothing baby by umghhh · · Score: 1

    You mean status and aesthetic considerations have any importance in case of a means of transportation?
    I could agree with aesthetics being important but then we are all different and have different tastes which sort of makes a generally well received vehicle a futile endeavor. Besides I have impression that the reason people prefer one car over the other has nothing to do with aesthetics but rather the status. In other words - can you explain how does Tesla extends your dick better than anything else?

  13. Finally! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I have been wondering why electric charging stations have been popping up all over my street the past few months and it is a bit funny to see the answer on the front page of slashdot!

    To see why something like this makes sense in a place like Copenhagen people got to keep in mind the transportation pattern over here is very different than in the US. I am in a household of two and we could easily afford a car, but since our workplace is 12 km from home we both bike to work. In addition we have a large tricycle for transporting larger things or when going out together (is this redundant? ;-) ). In a city with good bicycling lanes this is by far an easier and quicker way to get around than by car. Large tricycles are very common over here, especially for families with children who often have the electric versions. The cost saved by not having a car is fairly significant especially when factoring in parking, insurance and environmental tax, although the people who quote the 150% VAT figure should keep in mind that *with* tax intensives the cost of an *all electric* car like the BMW i3 appears to be about the same as in the US.

    The bottom line is in Copenhagen you have a lot of people who do most (or all) their transportation using bicycles but still need to buy a mattress in Ikea every once in a while. In that situation being able to *easily* rent a car just outside home is a very good service, even if it is a bit expensive per minute.

  14. Can't wait to try this! by jackd · · Score: 1

    I live in downtown Copenhagen and own a car, and yet I'm super excited about this!

    With 400 cars scattered across the city, you can almost expect and plan for a car to be available in your vicinity. Huge flexibility and so many use cases.

    Owning a car in Copenhagen, even a small and highly economical car is easily minimum 400 USD per month, everything included; parking, depreciation, fuel, insurance, service etc. You can drive one of these guys around for many many hours for the same price. So if you live in the city and don't need a car for the daily commute, this is a superb alternative to owning one. Have already signed up and expect to use this on a regular basis.

  15. 0.52c per minute? by DrXym · · Score: 1

    That's pretty expensive. I'm sure Copenhagen has a pretty good public transport / bike scheme which means you could get from A to B for a fraction of that cost. Even a taxi is probably cheaper.

  16. Re:i8 or nothing baby by Carewolf · · Score: 1

    i3? Yuck. Give me an i8 or go home. I just wish they had it with a turbodeisel engine.

    It is a car you can get access to for a few dollars. It is meant to be ugly so that no one wants to steal it or joyride it to destruction.

  17. There is an electric car share in the USA by jjhues7676 · · Score: 1

    The city of Indianapolis just started doing the same program on 09/02/2015. It is called BlueIndy.

    1. Re:There is an electric car share in the USA by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

      They've had this service since february 9th?

    2. Re:There is an electric car share in the USA by dkatana · · Score: 1

      Americans write the month first

  18. Drop anywhere? Really? by fgouget · · Score: 1

    The article claims that users can "drop [the cars] off anywhere that public parking is allowed within the city". Given that I very much doubt every single public parking spot in the city has a a charger, and assuming they are not stupid and did not lie, that means they plan on having a bunch of employees running around moving the cars to the nearest charger(*). That could partly explain why the price is over twice as much per hour as the similar Autolib' service in Paris.

    (*) Note that no matter what it's necessary to have employees moving the cars around if only so they don't all accumulate in one spot (Autolib' in Paris does that too). But letting users park anywhere would likely seriously increase the workload.

  19. Re:i8 or nothing baby by LaurenCates · · Score: 1

    I can't speak for outside the US, but inside the US, there's this mentality of cars being supposed to keep you safe if there's an accident.

    Perhaps what you're seeing is the natural extension of buying an SUV to be "safer". However, instead of being in a big car that can take a hit, now it's being in the car that outwardly says "don't mess with me".

    --
    Some people don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in The Patriarchy.
  20. Re:i8 or nothing baby by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    I rate the Aztek as being less ugly that the PT Cruiser, plus the Aztek never made it outside the US.

    Well, this implies you don't live here in the US, where you might actually encounter one of these vehicles. Just like the i3 is staggeringly uglier in person than in BMW press photos, the Aztek is fractally ugly. The more you look at it, the more new things you find to hate about it. When I saw it, I seriously thought it was a concept car that hadn't been refined yet. But no, it was a production vehicle already, in all its... glory. Every proportion just screams wrongness, like a bug wearing an Edgar suit.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  21. Re:i8 or nothing baby by Ralph+Wiggam · · Score: 1

    Because Tesla sacrifices aerodynamic drag for styling, because they have big expensive battery packs. When the Nissan Leaf was designed, every decision was based on minimizing drag, and thus maximizing range. It has big weird bug eye headlights, which create bubbles of low pressure around the side view mirrors at highway speeds.

  22. Re:i8 or nothing baby by Triklyn · · Score: 1

    i disagree with more than half the things you say in your posts that i've noticed...

    but in this instance, about the aztec. you are correct. Looked it up... and had a visceral reaction.

    it causes me physical discomfort to appreciate the proportions, the sheen, the shape... god the proportions, the finish, oh god the proportions...

    dear lord,

    this was too deliberate not to be intentional... some designer out there hates people with eyes.