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WSJ: We Need the Right To Repair Our Gadgets

An anonymous reader writes: An editorial in the Wall Street Journal rings a bell we've been ringing for years: "Who owns the knowledge required to take apart and repair TVs, phones and other electronics? Manufacturers stop us by controlling repair plans and limiting access to parts. Some even employ digital software locks to keep us from making changes or repairs. This may not always be planned obsolescence, but it's certainly intentional obfuscation." The article shows that awareness of this consumer-hostile behavior (and frustration with it) is going mainstream. The author links to several DIY repair sites like iFixit, and concludes, "Repairing stuff isn't as complicated as they want you to think. Skilled gadget owners and independent repair pros deserve access to the information they need to do the best job they can."

345 comments

  1. Good example by jez9999 · · Score: 5, Informative

    A good example is removable batteries in mobile phones. I was shopping around a few days ago and the only major Smartphones that still have removable batteries are the LG G3/G4, Samsung S5 (not the S6), and I think the Moto X. Everyone else has jumped on the Apple ship and denied you access to the smartphone battery, preventing a hard reset.

    Stop copying Apple, you lemmings!!

    1. Re: Good example by guruevi · · Score: 2

      People don't care about battery replacement and you can still do a hard reset on iDevices. A typical battery these days has a 5-10 year lifespan, by then your device is sorely obsoleted and most plans will have paid for a 'free' replacement twice over by then.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    2. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. By "denied you access", you mean that it takes five minutes to pop a few clips and remove a couple of screws to get the battery out. That is not what the article is about; it stops you carrying a spare charged battery to swap in during a trip by simply poppin off a cover, which may be an inconvenience, but it doesn't stop you from replacing the battery if it stops working. I'm not aware of any major smarphone that glues the battery in or otherwise makes it particularly difficult to replace.

    3. Re: Good example by sremick · · Score: 5, Informative

      Wrong

      A typical lithium ion battery will show noted loss of capacity even after 2y. And it's not just about the overall lifespan of the battery: it's about being able to quickly pop in a freshly-charged spare and get on with your day without having to be stuck tethered to a charging cable.

      Or, if you work remotely from charging sources for extended periods, having a handful of $10 charged batteries handy is a lifesaver.

    4. Re:Good example by sremick · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is precisely why I got the S5 even though if I had waited a month I could've gotten the S6. I knew the S6 wouldn't have a removable battery, and with that being a critical feature I made sure I voted with my wallet.

    5. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is obfuscation like the summary says.

    6. Re: Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's all true. And it is also a niche use case. Hence the dearth of phones that have removable batteries. It isn't a conspiracy; it is that more people would rather have a thinner phone (or a more solid feeling one) than would rather have a replaceable battery. It is the market working correctly. For those that prefer and even need a replaceable battery it is good that there are still a few options. Hopefully those options remain to serve that niche market. It is the same with SD cards. More and more phones don't support them because most people don't use them. It seems that tech sites like this one have an amazing conglomeration of outliers who do need replaceable batteries and SD cards - but the vast majority of normal folks just don't need them.

    7. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I love https://www.fairphone.com/. They try to be different.

    8. Re:Good example by yodleboy · · Score: 1

      exactly! As a happy owner of an original Note and now a Note 3, I was really excited for the Note 5. Until I saw that it had a sealed battery and even worse, no SD card slot. I could live with the battery, but no storage expansion is a show stopper. It's the reason I left iPhone after the first generation, I don't like having to purchase a new phone when I've outgrown the supplied storage. Lucky for me my Note 3 is still going strong, maybe we'll see a reversal on the Note 6...

    9. Re:Good example by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      When you may need to bridge a long time without access to power, what's the difference, really, between carrying around multiple batteries for a device that has exchangeable batteries and carrying an external battery?

    10. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      true, the fact that apple started making it increasingly difficult/impossible to service notebooks(along with their shit specs for the price) and the inability to strip down mac pros(when they were still using totally generic commodity parts which I could upgrade at a minute cost vs. apple tax) drove me away from them. Obviously they continued this shit with their phones, but I was long since done drinking the koolaid by the time that they coughed up a phone.

      Just for kicks I've built a couple hackintoshes and hackbook recently and I see that OSX is stagnant steaming pile, and pokey as hell(comparatively speaking to say any similar vintage linux distro win7/8/8.1/10) so the OS isn't much of a draw any longer. It was my ONLY point of hesitation when I decided to swear off apple products although my wallet and their aleady trending to totally locking down the hardware obviously were stronger voices.... Back to OSX I see VERY LITTLE improvements since say around the time of Tiger. I get the feeling that it's not even a third class citizen at Apple unless the "new" stuff can also be applied to ios. The iterations since seem to be more like the skinning of the year than any real improvements, and in some cases(Yosemite) backsliding on already subpar performance.

      I should mention that I also purchased a recent macbook pro(Jesus people are stupid to pay retail for those anemic specs but at least it still had a mostly replaceable battery and RAM which is why I chose that model plus I got it for c. $200 or c. 1/10th the "new" price x86 dual core *snicker* for it's new cost I bought a Sager NP7330 quad core(i7-4800MQ/16GB/765m) it's clevo based to it's pretty much ALL serviceable easily(not as easily as hp probooks though, single screw optional) user serviceable although this one the dGPU is soldered rather than an MXM card although you do have to jump through an extra hoop for BIOS updates OTOH custom BIOSes are quite common for clevo based notebooks).

      Lenovo and HP still supply quite a bit of info about their products, but at least in Lenovo's case it's partially because unless you use a custom BIOS of some form the stock BIOS WHITELISTS components which comprises a great deal of their service manuals, i.e. lists of stock BIOS acceptable components. I suppose that this is moderately more acceptable in primarily business oriented products. HP probooks are just so easily cracked open by pulling a few levers if the usually optional additional screw is not installed. Prices for specs on these isn't too ht although easily better than Apple's OTOH they are primarily aimed at businesses.

      Phones: yes the race to make the chassis next to impossible to open to even replace the battery is HIGHLY ANNOYING, along with elimination of other useful feature such as uSD slots. I find this incredibly hilarious as IIRC Google's excuse is that it's "confusing" to users YET they still have to acquire the correct SIM card AND INSTALL it?!

      But yeah at the end of the day making it nigh impossible to even crack open the chassis is incredibly annoying along with egregiously overpriced products that make use of extensively soldered parts where the main excuse is thickness(not a problem as most of theses ultra thin jobs do more thermal throttling than anything else) leaving mfg cost the determining factor but with their already high peofit margings, I think that they afford to lose .5% of profit margin. IOW IMO I'll take a bit thicker with the likelihood of having better thermal capability AND user replaceable parts as much as possible.

      I can't believe that they were still getting shit caps that recently. Samsung must've been being super cheap and still buying china shit(ultra low quality) components.

    11. Re: Good example by umafuckit · · Score: 1

      That's all true. And it is also a niche use case. Hence the dearth of phones that have removable batteries. It isn't a conspiracy; it is that more people would rather have a thinner phone (or a more solid feeling one) than would rather have a replaceable battery. It is the market working correctly.

      I don't believe it's that hard to design an equally thin phone (or one that is trivially thicker) but with a user-replaceable battery. It just won't look as nice because it will have screws in the case.

    12. Re: Good example by jandrese · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Phone batteries tend to be around 50-60% of their original capacity after a couple of years. Here is the thing though, it may be difficult but it is not impossible to replace the battery in something like an iPhone. It requires a special screwdriver, but that is easily found online from the same places that sell replacement batteries. The actual procedure isn't especially difficult on most phones. It's not something you would do regularly, but as something you do maybe once to a phone its really not so bad. The tradeoff is that the phone is thinner and lasts longer on the charge. You also lose the ability to carry extra batteries with you on a trip and swap them in as needed, but that was not typical even when it was possible, and less necessary with the higher capacity "permanent" batteries on phones.

      The one thing you do miss is the ability to pull the battery from your phone if you suspect it has been compromised and is spying on you. With baseband hacks you can never be sure if the phone is completely off the way you could back when you could yank the battery.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    13. Re: Good example by Rei · · Score: 1

      There are design advantages to not having the battery removable - the obvious (for example, not having to have weight and space for a hinging or slide-latch mechanism) and the less obvious (for example, waterproofing and dustproofing - the fewer openings, the better). When last shopping for cell phones I picked a model with no replaceable battery because, no surprise, the phones with the best waterproofing on the market also didn't have replaceable batteries.

      --
      You don't exist. Go away.
    14. Re: Good example by jez9999 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      it is that more people would rather have a thinner phone

      What is it with that, can anyone explain to me? My LG G3 is maybe a centimetre thick and I don't need it to be any thinner. Honestly, why do you need your phone to be thinner than that (and probably more likely to bend)? Are you planning to use it as a credit card?

    15. Re: Good example by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      A typical lithium cell used in a phone is good for about 500 full cycles. If your phone gets down to 10% every day you will hit your 500 cycles pretty fast, like 18 months.

      Batteries are consumable items. The EU should mandate that they be replaceable, just like they mandated USB for charging, because a lot of otherwise perfectly good devices end up in landfill when the batter dies after a couple of years.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    16. Re: Good example by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2

      What is it with that, can anyone explain to me?

      Who doesn't want to shave with their phone?

    17. Re: Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This IS planned obsolescence! When things are deliberately made to be difficult or impossible to repair, that is planned obsolescence! When a company does not make repair information available for free and parts available at a reasonable cost, that is planned obsolescence! When companies do not update the software for a phone or tablet that is more than a year old, that is planned obsolescence!

      If a person takes reasonable care of their stuff, it can easily last 5-10 years or more...unless like most things today, it is designed to fail within a month of the warranty running out! Cell phones are the best example of planned obsolescence that there is. Most companies expect people to replace their phones yearly, even if there is nothing wrong with the old cell phone. Phones (tablets too) more than a year old do not get software updates...period! With very few exceptions, batteries in cell phones are not meant to be replaced, as there is no way to get the phone apart without special using tools, or breaking something.

      All of my PCs are IBM/Lenovo. Service information is readily available as are any parts that may be needed for repairs. Even my Lenovo tablet has service information and parts available. When you pay hard-earned money for a product, you should expect that product to be designed to last for at least 5 years, and for it to be designed to be easy to repair.

      Its just plain uncontrolled rampant corporate greed that is the reason for this planned obsolescence! This has to be stopped NOW!

    18. Re: Good example by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      I'm a trifle surprised that(at least to my knowledge) the demand from restrictive workplaces and paranoids unwilling to give up their toys hasn't spawned an aftermarket in adding nice, tactile, physical hard-off switches to phones with integrated batteries, perhaps also with the option of drilling just far enough in to defang the camera without terminating the motherboard.

      Both modifications are conceptually trivial; but the sort of thing that would look like a mess of dremel hackwork and uneven epoxy work without a bit of practice and some care.

    19. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, it's not. It's a perfectly valid design decision to make the phone thinner and sleeker, at the cost of making it slightly harder to replace the battery. Since most people will replace the phone long before the battery dies, this is a perfectly reasonable trade-off. The fact that a tiny but vocal minority seem to have a chip on their shoulder about easily swappable batteries does not change that fact.

    20. Re: Good example by jandrese · · Score: 1

      The problem is that there is just no room to work with in your average phone. The glass backs on some iPhones don't help either. It would be difficult to install a switch that was properly recessed and not tremendously fragile.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    21. Re:Good example by fustakrakich · · Score: 0

      Your 0.0000002 cents are duly noted. Let's get 6 billion of us to do the same thing. Oh, let's see, that should amount to about 10% of the capital in circulation. Ooo, ouch! Sorry, man. Unless it upsets Bill Gates or the dead Steve Jobs, you're stuck with what the market offers. Capitalism has no respect for the individual. The Market Collective has more power than any Soviet politburo ever had.

      --
      “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    22. Re: Good example by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Batteries are consumable items. The EU should mandate that they be replaceable,

      given that the battery is NOT replaced in the vast majority of phones, what you say would actually INCREASE the amount of waste because all phones would be bigger and use more materials to accomodate a battery access door that will never be used.

    23. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Being an engineer I replace iPhone phone batteries and displays for my kid's friends. I bought all the tools on eBay - mostly screwdrivers and suction cup pliers for about $30 and buy parts when needed. If the edge is not deformed too much, it's relatively straightforward. Since I started though, I've seen prices drop significantly from the "professional" mall kiosks and strip mall shops. Nowadays, I recommend those over the DIY approach because their prices are really quite good.

    24. Re: Good example by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      If you're really that paranoid about the phone spying on you, it's probably better just to leave the phone behind. I mean, what's to stop them from placing a smaller secondary battery that still powers necessary components for snooping when you yank the battery? Are you going to completely disassemble the phone to make sure it's not there? You're better off just leaving it at home for your ultra secret espionage excursions.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    25. Re:Good example by PPH · · Score: 1

      The NSA doesn't want you to pull the battery whenever you want to go 'off the grid' for a few hours. It's possible to compromise phone firmware to appear as though it has been turned off, but still respond to network pings from a Stingray,

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    26. Re: Good example by jandrese · · Score: 1

      Space mostly. There's just no room to add anything to a modern smartphone. Every cubic mm is accounted for.

      --

      I read the internet for the articles.
    27. Re:Good example by swillden · · Score: 1

      denied you access to the smartphone battery, preventing a hard reset.

      There are other reasons to care about a removable battery, but lack of a hard reset option isn't one of them. All mobile devices I'm familiar with that have non-removable batteries provide a different option for hard reset. This is a really good thing because engineers (like me) working on low-level OS and even firmware components regularly screw up our devices, and need a way to recover them.

      Nexus devices -- and AFAIK all Android devices -- provide reset options with the power and volume buttons. Holding the power and volume down button is a semi-hard reset; it's implemented in low-level firmware and will restart the device no matter how hard the regular OS is locked up, and it will get you into fastboot where you can reflash anything.

      Holding power, volume up and volume down is a real hard reset. It gets you to a state where you can use low-level (OEM-specific, AFAICT) utilities to re-flash broken firmware.

      On iPhones, hard reset is done by holding the home button and the sleep/wake button.

      All devices have to have a hard reset mechanism. Otherwise engineers building them would be throwing bricked devices away on a daily basis.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    28. Re: Good example by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      There are design advantages to not having the battery removable - the obvious (for example, not having to have weight and space for a hinging or slide-latch mechanism) and the less obvious (for example, waterproofing and dustproofing - the fewer openings, the better).

      My Kyocera Hydro Vibe has a replaceable battery and is certified waterproof to 3 feet for 30 minutes and dust proof. It has a snap-on back with a gasket underneath around the batter/sim/sd compartment. In addition, it has *no* covers over any of the buttons, headphone or usb connection openings.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    29. Re: Good example by sjames · · Score: 1

      Actually, my phone has a replaceable battery with no screws, just a tiny slot in the edge of the case where you can pop the battery door open with a fingernail of a jeweler's screwdriver.

    30. Re: Good example by sjames · · Score: 1

      How am I supposed to chop onions with a thick phone?

    31. Re: Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My Nokia Windows phone has an SD card slot. It's not easily accessed, though, it's inside and you have to take the case back off and the battery out to remove it. It's not meant to be often swapped, though. It is was to set it so all the apps get installed to it. Voila, I can install 32 GB of apps if I like, without the awkward hacks needed for Android, or the impossibility inherent in an Apple phone.

    32. Re: Good example by gnupun · · Score: 1

      Never? Many users will carry spares that they can swap in case of excess usage of phone or an emergency. The current model is dumb and greedy, just like Apple's $30 charging cables. Imagine the outrage if your TV remote needed to be taken to a retail store to have its AA batteries replaced.

    33. Re: Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How do you define "best waterproofing" (which is inaccurate - it's water resistance)? Seems like a binary option to me: water inside or dry inside.

      The Galaxy S5 has a removable back and is still "waterproof". It's waterproof is still excellent because there's no water in the back if you put it in water...

    34. Re: Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So hot-gluing and soldered wiring is "not that difficult"?

      Also, which phones last longer on a charge? Most high-end Android devices' battery life (removable or not) benchmark longer than an i device...

    35. Re: Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No need to drill, you can cover the camera. Or paint over it.

    36. Re:Good example by kilodelta · · Score: 1

      Yeah that is a disturbing trend. But as to TV's about 2 years ago the power supply went on mine. Opened the TV up, snapped out the power supply and snapped in a new one. TV has worked ever since.

    37. Re: Good example by bledri · · Score: 1

      There are design advantages to not having the battery removable - the obvious (for example, not having to have weight and space for a hinging or slide-latch mechanism) and the less obvious (for example, waterproofing and dustproofing - the fewer openings, the better).

      My Kyocera Hydro Vibe has a replaceable battery and is certified waterproof to 3 feet for 30 minutes and dust proof. It has a snap-on back with a gasket underneath around the batter/sim/sd compartment. In addition, it has *no* covers over any of the buttons, headphone or usb connection openings.

      And it's almost twice as thick with about 75% of the talk time of the iPhone 6. It's a design trade off, not the evil plan that some think. Open up an iPhone or a Mac Book and every nook and cranny that is not electronics is battery. Hinges, covers, gaskets all mean less battery. Most people, myself included, would rather have the battery last longer than carry around a spare battery. Especially because I can carry around a spare external battery on the rare occasion I think it's a good idea. Of course it's been years since I bothered.)

      --
      Some privacy policy Slashdot.
    38. Re: Good example by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      For most purposes(especially with company-issue gear) just disabling it in software is probably good enough; but if you are running an operation where you insist that isn't true; why would you trust my 'cover' or 'paint' to not be an IR bandpass material. So far as humans are concerned it is opaque; but a silicon sensor will just lose a bit of sensitivity. Not wildly plausible; but CYA is a powerful force in some areas.

    39. Re: Good example by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      That's the sort of problem that, while very true, is exactly where some additional competence, access to proper tools, etc. really separates the professional from the hobbyist. The glass backs might be a lost cause(if memory serves, I think even Apple has to shape them before the final toughening process; because trying to do so afterwards either does nothing or destroys the glass); but you can make more room in a phone if you can fabricate a replacement back that is slightly larger in the appropriate places.

    40. Re: Good example by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      And it's almost twice as thick with about 75% of the talk time of the iPhone 6.

      And my Kyocera Hydro Vibe was $155 (w/Ting) vs. $$$ for an iPhone6. Everything is s trade off and, at the moment, my phone is more than I need... If I ever become a heavy mobile phone user, I'll probably switch to some even more capable.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    41. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not replacing the phone after 18 months when the battery is only good for half its original charge.

    42. Re: Good example by liquidsin · · Score: 1

      doesn't even need screws; my Samsung Galaxy S4 has a couple small indentations around the edges to pull the back off. it just basically snaps on. add to that (anecdotally, from what I see) that most people keep their phone in some sort of case. even with the user-changeable battery on the S4 the phone is small enough that I just feel more comfortable holding and using it in a case; at 6' and 180 lbs I'm not a particularly large person, and the standard Otter Box seems to beef up the phone enough to be comfortable to use and still small enough for a pocket.

      --
      do not read this line twice.
    43. Re:Good example by Anomalyst · · Score: 1

      is there a url some place that one can select from a list of phones those with removable batteries? Sounds like it would be a good traffic generator for gizmodo.

      --
      There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
    44. Re: Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The S5 had a removable battery with waterproofing and without a hinge or slide latch. Phones haven't had the nice trivial to remove batteries for years because the batteries last a full day. But that doesn't mean the battery will still perform well when the phone itself is older. So a clip on back to slide out a battery is a pretty darn good feature... It used to be standard, now only LG gets it right.

    45. Re:Good example by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      According to many mainstream news sites, the Galaxy S6's sales have been dismal.

    46. Re:Good example by Anomalyst · · Score: 1

      priced at 530 euros, which is about $595

      --
      There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
    47. Re: Good example by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Some of the Motorola phones have a spray coating on the circuit boards that prevents water damage, rather than trying to make a waterproof case.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    48. Re: Good example by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Just buy the new Moto Razr!

      http://www.motorola.com/us/Dro...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    49. Re: Good example by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Electrical tape is pretty opaque.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    50. Re: Good example by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      My Kyocera Brigadier will go through a weekend pretty decently.

      http://www.cnet.com/products/k...

      According to the specs, 26 hr talk time, that should translate pretty good when not talking on it. It is however huge, but I see that as a plus as it is near invincible.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    51. Re:Good example by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Good thing than that the collective has spoken, and they want removable/larger batteries, not micro phones.

      http://hardware.slashdot.org/c...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    52. Re:Good example by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      So in other words about the same price as the iPhone when it came out?

      http://aaplinvestors.net/stats...

      (look at the last set of prices, as this is an unlocked phone you are comparing to)

      $600 is about right for most nice phones, sure you can get some Androids for around $100, but they are really far down on the spec sheets.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    53. Re: Good example by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      it is that more people would rather have a thinner phone

      What is it with that, can anyone explain to me? My LG G3 is maybe a centimetre thick and I don't need it to be any thinner. Honestly, why do you need your phone to be thinner than that (and probably more likely to bend)? Are you planning to use it as a credit card?

      What? Ew. My phone is 7.6mm thick. Throw out that obsolete garbage from yesterday and get with the times before people will pass comment about you at the train platform.

    54. Re:Good example by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I bought an S5 2 days ago :-)

    55. Re: Good example by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Is there anyone still using a LiIon in their products? There are other options LiPoly for example that don't have those drawbacks. My devices with LiPoly even though thoroughly abused (which would destroy a lead-acid or LiIon - heat, partial charge, no charge, ...) I still have the same devices 5 years later.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    56. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the reason I am a happy LG G4 owner instead of a Samsung S6 owner. And they wonder why people aren't buying their latest .phones

    57. Re:Good example by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      A good example is removable batteries in mobile phones. I was shopping around a few days ago and the only major Smartphones that still have removable batteries are the LG G3/G4, Samsung S5 (not the S6), and I think the Moto X. Everyone else has jumped on the Apple ship and denied you access to the smartphone battery, preventing a hard reset.

      Stop copying Apple, you lemmings!!

      And yet, it's easy to open an iPhone and go and change the battery. Requires a little skill, but that never seems to have stopped people. Every iPhone from the iPhone 4 onwards have used a couple of special screws but then the phone comes apart fairly easily and the battery is exposed.

      It's basically an intelligence test - if you're smart enough to acquire the special screwdriver and handle a soldering iron, you probably can change the battery yourself. If not, well, then stop trying to commit warranty fraud.

      The only other use case are for those who swap batteries to last through the day, to which we have the problems of keeping all the batteries charged up with one charger. It's a small use case these days with portable external USB batteries.

      But that use case is tiny - the vast majority of users will not have a spare battery for their cellphone.

    58. Re: Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My MacBook is on battery number 4, and is at 1669 cycles. That would be 3 of the current MacBook Airs for the landfill. Oh, and a bit of cash, too.

    59. Re:Good example by Rufty · · Score: 1

      I go backpacking with my phone, and it has changeable batteries. I take a universal charger and a flat pack wall wart. Some campsites have "charge your device" facilities. I feel better about leaving a battery and eBay special charger unattended, and it means I've still got my device, with Kindle, to read in the tent.

      --
      Red to red, black to black. Switch it on, but stand well back.
    60. Re: Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why not just bring a (or a few) USB batteries?

    61. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same here. Got the Note4 so I can still change the battery and plug in my micro sd card.
      This will be my last Samsung it seems...

    62. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if you go to iFixit, you'll get tutorials on how to change a battery in an iPhone (post-3GS), MacBook or iPad in les than 5 minutes.

    63. Re: Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why? Because hipster pockets are thin and shallow. Kind of like they are.

    64. Re:Good example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >I voted with my wallet

      How did that work for you?

      Are they adding the battery back in the S7?

      It's very common for large companies to ignore the wishes of their consumers nowadays.

    65. Re: Good example by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Another advantage is that the battery can take advantage of all available volume, if it's not forced to be in a shape that can be easily replaced. Some phones and tablets are batteries with a case and a few other components squeezed in.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    66. Re: Good example by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      My iPhone batteries seem to be well over 50-60% after three years, FWIW. It's also possible to get external batteries that you can plug into the power slot, if the battery life is insufficient for you.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  2. This is why... by Jahat · · Score: 1

    This is why I buy cars made before 1993.

    --
    Sola Scriptura Sola Fide Sola Gratia Sola Christus
    1. Re:This is why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, that's an awesome plan. You must be the mechanic elite of the "no one should buy new cars evar" crowd.

    2. Re:This is why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why do you hate the environment?

    3. Re:This is why... by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Because you can't work on a car made in 2015 *eye roll*

    4. Re:This is why... by itsenrique · · Score: 2

      Very few do major work on new cars because they are all under warranty *eye roll*. I worked at an auto parts store, and have done quite a few repairs and part replacements. Yes, cars started becoming more of a hassle to work on during the 90s and through the 00s. This is fairly well known stuff, you make it seem like car companies haven't been openly against people working on their cars these days. There was a story on it on /. within the last year, probably the last 6 months.

    5. Re:This is why... by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      cars are much more reliable today, in the past people had to do stuff like dry out distributor caps and spray carb cleaner just to get their cars to start in the morning.

      today there is a lovely computer to tweak a hundred engine settings simultaneously and my car starts instantly in 100F weather and -40F weather on the first turn of the key

    6. Re:This is why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is why I buy cars made before 1993.

      You could learn to repair later vehicles. My newest vehicle is from the early 2000s (about a decade later than your guideline), and it isn't more noticeably more difficult to repair than my oldest vehicle (from the late 1970s).

    7. Re:This is why... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      cars are much more reliable today, in the past people had to do stuff like dry out distributor caps and spray carb cleaner just to get their cars to start in the morning.

      I grew up with carbs and distributor caps, and I don't recall ever doing that. I'm not saying that nobody ever did it, but it wasn't common.

      And for the record, I was starting vehicles in -20F weather (not windchill, but actual air temperature).

    8. Re:This is why... by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      You exaggerate and miss the point. Forgetting joe blow for a second, a *mechanic* can't save these things/it isn't economically feasible to much sooner than the cars of 15-20 years ago because of the attitude of 'screw maintainability'. Spare us on how hard cars were to use back in the day, a 95 civic wasn't much less reliable than today's, it had EFI not carbs, and yet it was much easier to work on and diagnose than either a new honda or worse yet a new VW or Audi (just random examples, Ford is guilty too). Another anti consumer behavior is disallowing the sale of aftermarket components so you have to pay the dealerships extortionist prices.

  3. Unibody? by Aqualung812 · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Since we love car analogies here, do you think the trend towards non-removable batteries is comparable to the changes in car body design?

    It seems older cars used body-on-frame and other designs that basically allowed the person performing the repair to unbolt parts, work on them or replace them, and then bolt them back on.

    The disadvantage to this was a weaker body, or a heavier one.

    That seems to be the trend with phones: A lightweight and small phone means a sealed case.

    --
    Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    1. Re: Unibody? by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Manufacturing these days allows for such designs which improve them in many other ways such as energy usage, material usage and weight.

      You can still fix those cars/devices, it's just a little harder, especially for the people used to the old 'bolt and ratchet' style.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    2. Re: Unibody? by postbigbang · · Score: 2

      The maker and hacker communities do a good job of spreading non-official/unsanctioned information about repair/modding/refurbishing many, many items.

      It's true that vendors limit parts stocks, as the life of a product is maybe nine months in the marketplace until something new emerges, as consumerism has as its addiction, new stuff with one-upmanship. This means that the parts stocked for any particular model are as absolutely as slim as possible, lest they go into a dumpster, landfill, or on a good day, to a parts remarketer.

      The "intellectual property" behind schematics, source code, is the rubric given for not releasing schematics, construction models/diagrams and repair components-- but also because they don't want to support the costs of modders, hackers, and others from whom they make not one penny. A few vendors are smart enough to make a few pennies from these communities, but it's not the focus of their business.

      This has also evolved an aftermarket of an array repair businesses, some of which are particularly shady (think cracked screen repair) while others are legitimate and back-fill rotten customer service from the big vendors.

      These aren't your dad's Western Electric phones, or the old Selectric, as you imply, but the business models aren't for products with a five year shelf life-- or longer.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    3. Re: Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      You can still fix those cars/devices, it's just a little harder, especially for the people used to the old 'bolt and ratchet' style.
       
      The same exact thing can be said for phones in this case... If all you have is a n00bs experience and the 30 dollar Radio Shack toolkit you're going to have a hard time of it. We see plenty of non-manufacturer-trained techs out there setting up businesses for replacing screens, batteries, etc. I guess the "lock-in" is more a matter of "I can't do it as easily as I could with the phone that did half as much but twice the weight and volume."
       
      This, to me, is like the guys who remembered a time when you could replace daughter boards in a PC that are now mostly integrated devices. When's the last time you seen a consumer level PC with a discrete ethernet card or sound card?
       
      You're going to have to put up with this if you want your spiffy phone with all the bells and whistles in a slim form factor while maintaining an acceptable battery life.

    4. Re:Unibody? by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      What the hell are you talking about? Cars are fucking modular! You can take them apart and you can service them. They are not sealed. I be you never changed the air filter in your car - hint it's really easy.

    5. Re: Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Depends on the type of filter. A lot of cabin air filters are inside the cabin behind the glove box. It involves taking hold the dash apart and risking discharging the airbags to reach them. Most engine intake filters are fairly simple.

      The hardest part of repairing a car is the room in the engine compartment. They are so tight these days you can't gay to any parts without taking half the engine apart to reach them.

    6. Re:Unibody? by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Cars are fucking modular! You can take them apart and you can service them. They are not sealed.

      yeah let's look at a web site that tells you many ways to fix your own car

      http://www.thesaabsite.com/faqs/9-5%20%289600%29/FAQs.html

      Do you see where it says:

      "ABS brakes are HIGH PRESSURE & should only be worked on by Authorized mechanics!"

      "Saabs are specifically designed to have axles that weigh a certain amount & they should be certain lengths for balance reasons and most rebuilt axles are done without taking this into consideration. We have seen issues with these rebuilt axles flying out of the inner driver causing transmissions to get torn up as well as other severe damage."

      In many cases it's really irrelevant as to whether or not you can fix your car yourself legally, because stupid things like physics make it impossible to do it yourself.

    7. Re:Unibody? by itsenrique · · Score: 3, Informative

      Cars have become much harder to work on over the last 2 decades. At first, before that, during the muscle car era, things were simpler and there was a lot more room under the hood to work and see. Then things became compact, lighter, more efficient (and complex). Makes sense. Got a little harder to work on, and definitely harder to learn, but we got really efficient cars. But recently, with the increased electronification of cars, the automakers have been fighting in court to prevent reverse engineering their software. The thing is, what is done by software is a list that gets bigger all the time. So, yes, people who work on cars a lot have been feeling the lack of love for a while. A lot of these cars that are coming out now will have a lot of broken gadgets and other irreparable systems possibly leading to an early trip to the metal scrappers. The auto makers want you to buy new, the aging American fleet concerns them for obvious reasons.

    8. Re:Unibody? by sinij · · Score: 2

      If your car analogy post was a car, it would be a messy high-speed wreck wrapped around a tree.

      Modern cars suffer from the same problem electronic gadgets are - manufacturers intentionally making it harder to work on them. Any car is modular - you have individual components that make a whole, and there is no reason why any of these components couldn't be taken out and replaced. You have bolt-on components like alternators, exhaust, AC compressor, radiator, struts... and you have integrated components like valves, chassis, seals. It should be obvious that bolt-on components should be interchangeable, but so should integrated components. For example, you ought not to have to "activate" or "genuine OEM part" an alternator, because there is absolutely no legitimate reason for this.

    9. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The sole difference, as far as repairs go, between BoF and unibody are that BoF allows the body of the car to be unbolted from the frame (and thus the frame can be replaced) whereas with unibody, those are one singular unit.

      In practice, the frame is rarely replaced (but it does happen occasionally). The cost in labour to remove the entire body and everything attached to the frame is extreme, because you're basically disassembling over half the car. Thus, in reality, the common reasons to prefer BoF are that it can, sometimes, lead to a stronger design (though in reality there's no reason unibody can't do as well or better) and if you want to do a cheap "lift", you can lift the body rather than everything (though this sort of lift is literally just for show, there are no useful reasons for it, unlike lifting the entire vehicle).

      Other than the frame, there is *nothing* on a unibody that you can't replace that you could replace on a BoF vehicle (okay, technically all the body bolts are deleted on a unibody because they're not needed). There are plenty of unibody cars with replaceable fenders, which is what people think you can't replace due to being unibody. That's not true. The only part of a car that defines a unibody vs. a BoF vehicle is the integrated frame, and that's on the bottom of the vehicle, and, as I said, rarely replaced (The times that it would need replacement the car is almost always a complete writeoff, imagine the wreck required to tweak the frame significantly enough you can't just pull it back into position!). Of course, some manufacturers take that as an excuse to weld the panels together. They did that back in the BoF days as well, with lead I might add...

      People fixing cars at home like BoF because you can put a jack or jack stand ANYWHERE on the frame without risk. With a unibody car you need to pay a lot more attention to find places that aren't going to taco the vehicle. Also, a BoF car generally allows you to pass inspection with rust holes, because the body isn't structure (so long as fumes can't enter, of course), whereas a unibody with rust holes is considered structurally compromised until you apply generous amounts of bondo or painted spray foam (which makes no sense, but welcome to the world of government regulations). Of course, the correct repair is to weld in patches, but few shadetree mechanics give that much of a shit about their 10+ year old cars... :)

      Frankly, on cars, the big issue is the fact most of them have several computers, and they're all typically completely closed from the end user, minus the OBD computer. Also, while piracy on the internet has helped a lot, typically it is an additional expense to get the factory repair manual for your car (and it is not cheap!). Plus, manufacturers have gotten shitty and made them "expire" after time, depending on what manual it is, or worse, they can only be downloaded from the manufacturer's site, and the login costs an ungodly sum.

    10. Re: Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

      Dude, just squeeze the glove box and let it fall down. Preferably after you have removed the customer's shit and put it in a bag. :) Takes about 15 seconds to find the catches.

      Now, if you said you were removing the heater core, I'd be down with your advice. Seems in most factories they hang up a heater core and build the car around that.

    11. Re:Unibody? by FranTaylor · · Score: 1, Informative

      manufacturers intentionally making it harder to work on them. Any car is modular - you have individual components that make a whole, and there is no reason why any of these components couldn't be taken out and replaced. .

      you really don't know the first thing about mechanical engineering. Shafts that rotate at high speed, like turbocharger shafts and drive axles, cannot be manufactured economically with the tolerances required for interchangability. These parts must be carefully matched to each other in order to avoid vibration and early failure.

    12. Re: Unibody? by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      Most computers don't have discrete NIC or sound, but you can still add one if the internal one goes bad.

    13. Re:Unibody? by sinij · · Score: 1

      Congratulations, you found one example where it is difficult to repair something. Still, even turbochargers, can and do get rebuilt. While manufacturer would like you to spend thousands for a new part, the economical thing is to take old part and send it out to a specialized shop to rebuild. There are specialists rewinding alternators, machining heads, rebuilding compressors and turbos, recoring radiators (rare now), painting gas tanks, sleeving blocks and so on. Pretty much anything can be repaired, unless auto manufacturer took steps to make it impossible (or uneconomical).

    14. Re:Unibody? by FranTaylor · · Score: 0

      Congratulations, you found one example where it is difficult to repair something. Still, even turbochargers, can and do get rebuilt. While manufacturer would like you to spend thousands for a new part, the economical thing is to take old part and send it out to a specialized shop to rebuild. There are specialists rewinding alternators, machining heads, rebuilding compressors and turbos, recoring radiators (rare now), painting gas tanks, sleeving blocks and so on. Pretty much anything can be repaired, unless auto manufacturer took steps to make it impossible (or uneconomical).

      Pretty much anything can be repaired,

      brake rotors? bent turbocharger shaft? wheel bearings? axle half-shafts? exhaust components? none of these things are repairable and none of them are even replaceable without the explicit help of the manufacturer

    15. Re:Unibody? by StikyPad · · Score: 1

      Phones aren't unibody, in that they always have a front and back. The front may be the screen itself, but it still exists. (There would be no way to get the electronics and battery inside if it were not so.)

      The iPhone 4 was probably the easiest iPhone to disassemble, and to compensate for that, Apple used proprietary pentalobe screws to deter the casual user. Still, with a pentalobe screwdriver and a suction cup, it was trivial to open the phone. The connections inside, however, required a degree of dexterity to carefully remove and reattach. Could those connections be made easier? Probably. So Apple could have made the phone easier to service in at least one way, and probably two, and at least one of those obstacles was deliberate.

      Compare that to something like the newer iPads, which require the application of heat to soften the glue holding the screen in place. There's nothing user-friendly about that design. There's something to be said for the aesthetics of a sealed case, but it would have been trivial to use screws through the back instead, as with MacBook Pro's, and that would make the devices far more user-serviceable.

      Clearly making these devices accessible to the user would be beneficial from a cost standpoint, but it would be beneficial from an environmental standpoint as well. The most environmental choice is almost always to continue using an existing product instead of using the resources to produce a new one, and this is as true for electronics as it is for cars. How many more people would replace their batteries, or cracked screens, for $5 or $10 instead of buying a new phone? Many of my non-tech friends are still using their 3-4 year-old phones, or 10 year-old iPods, and I suspect they will continue using them until the devices die, as much as Apple or Samsung would like them to buy a new one every two years.

      Personally, as long as I can get a device open without breaking it, I will always service it myself. That said, I'm getting ready to upgrade my iPhone this week, as I do every two years. And like many tech geeks, I make up for it by rarely buying new clothes. ;)

    16. Re:Unibody? by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 3, Informative

      Most of that is scare tactics. Most cars are basically the same with varying build quality and materials. There is nothing mechanically special with a Saab when compared to any other gasoline powered FWD vechicle. Granted there may be some differences like with BMW and their current double VANOS system but even that isn't all that special just a neat way of doing variable valve timing and valve lift. Of course an unbalanced half shaft is going to cause problems and there are shops that can check and fix that that aren't Saab. Also all brake systems are high pressure and are really easy to work on. Since most vehicles don't use drum brakes anymore it is so much easier to do. The hardest set of disk brakes I have ever done were the ones on my old Bronco II and that was only because there were 2 pins that you have to pound out that held the caliper in place. The most difficult repair I ever did to a vehicle was replacing the valley pan on my previous car and I decided that since I was in there any way I would also to valve cover gaskets, and the CCV as well. It took about 8 hours but I didn't have any problems. After that the next worst repair was replacing the blower motor in that E39 BMW and that was mostly because physically getting the dash in and out of the car was a real bitch.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    17. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      3D printers. The answer is always 3D printers. It's a game-changing revolution.

    18. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brake rotors can be resurfaced. New bearings can be pressed into hubs. Drive shaft can be rebuild and re-balanced. Even tires can be re-threaded and engine oil recycled.
       
      You are reaching for extreme examples and still failing. Cars are universally repairable and are abandoned mostly for economical reasons. Unless manufacturer explicitly made it difficult or impossible to repair.
       
      The same should be the case with electronic gadgets, only manufacturers going much further to prevent repairs. Cracked screen or a dead battery on a smartphone should not be "fixed" by replacing entire smartphone, just like leaking head gasket or slipping transmission shouldn't be "fixed" by buying a new car.

    19. Re:Unibody? by sjames · · Score: 4, Funny

      Actually, to reach apple level, the manufacturers would have to do away with the openable hood as well. If it needs an oil change, throw it away and buy a new one.

    20. Re: Unibody? by sjames · · Score: 2

      When's the last time you seen a consumer level PC with a discrete ethernet card or sound card?

      About 5 minutes ago. The built-in ethernet failed so I stuck a card in it.

    21. Re: Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was extremely difficult to work on a Selectric.

      Those old office typewriters aren't a good example of easy to fix. A better example would be any old desktop PC clone, even most of those sold today.

    22. Re:Unibody? by sjames · · Score: 2

      You've never heard of having brake rotors turned? You've never heard of 3rd party brake rotors? There's nothing about any of those parts that precludes a 3rd party making replacements.

    23. Re:Unibody? by FranTaylor · · Score: 0

      so what you are saying is that people really cannot fix their own cars, they need professionals with professional equipment to fix many crucial items

      you can't manufacture your own half shafts or wheel bearings or brake rotors, you must rely on those who have the specifications and the ability to produce items of sufficiently high quality.

      so your cries of "independence" are really ringing hollow
       

    24. Re:Unibody? by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      I was referring to the difference between BODY ON FRAME and UNIBODY design, not cars in general. Learn to read. I know cars are modular, but their frames no longer are, in general.

      I bet you've never hammed out a dent by unbolting the quarter panel. Hint- It's really easy, if you don't have a unibody car where the quarter panel is welded to the frame.

      Otherwise, you're having to cut it off with a welder, which is about the same as the technical skill to replace a battery in a modern phone.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    25. Re: Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bull. Dont earn a penny on modders? Sell them circuit diagrams and parts, nobody asked for handouts.
      They could even sell mod kits, similiar to how various DIY electronic kits sell.

    26. Re: Unibody? by postbigbang · · Score: 2

      But they don't even do that-- want to earn any revenue on modders. Think of how many electronic devices you have in your house this moment, and how many of those vendors supply a schematic. In days gone by, vendors would include a schematic in the manual or glued to the back of a washing machine or inside of a TV set. No more.

      They want to control their entire revenue stream, and that doesn't mean give information to third parties.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    27. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No, you are looking at this wrong.

      Those rotors or bearings or half shafts are like the circuit boards, capacitors, and transistors. Sure they are a bit more specialized (IE this rotor works on model years 95-02 on these ford and mercury vehicles) but you usually have numerous brands and retailers to choose from. For example here in town I can go to Autozone, Advanced Auto, Napa, or O'Rielys. I also have the option of choosing from online retailers like rockauto.com (highly recommended) and Amazon. All of those retailers will at a minimum have two different brands for most parts.

      you can't manufacture your own half shafts or wheel bearings or brake rotors, you must rely on those who have the specifications and the ability to produce items of sufficiently high quality.

      So do you expect people to produce their own touch screens, IC chips, hell even their own capacitor? No you buy it.

      You can easily find parts, choose brands, and even choose performance levels for parts. There are MANY options and it is very independent. You don't even need to own the tools, all of those retailers will let you rent any tool you need for FREE. (You pay the deposit, or price of the tool, use the tool and the return it for a full refund.) Very very independent, very very DIY friendly. Hell the diagnostic computer that many cars "require" for "proper" service is replaced in many cases by a 10 dollar obd2 bluetooth dongle and a 5 dollar smart phone app. I keep a dongle in my car, my gf's car, and give them away as gifts to my DIY friends. Its nice being able to pull your own computer codes and watch your vehicles performance in real time.

      When it comes to fixing a phone you can only get parts from the manufacturer, except maybe for batteries it is hard if not impossible to find a third party part for your phone.

      Ohh and in your example car manufacturers say a lot of stuff like that so you don't sue them if something crazy happens. In your brake example, you can easily work on your brakes in most cases without ever loosening the lines. Replacing pads, rotors, drums, etc can all be done without ever being "in danger" from the high pressure. In fact I can bet that it should be safe to work on the lines themselves. That warning is in case the ABS system has malfunctioned and is keeping the pressure turned up to max, in that case you should disconnect the battery (which I am sure it tells you to do, hell it will say to disconnect the battery to change the tire half the time) and then loosen the bleeder, all of the excess pressure is relieved and you can work on the car normally.

      TLDR: You are incorrect, if anything it is more independent to work on vehicles then it ever has been to work on consumer electronics. In fact I bet if I ask all of the guys in my office (strictly IT) if they would feel more comfortable replacing blown capacitors or bad brakes I would have at least a 90% response for replacing the brakes. My guess Fran is you have never in your life even changed your own tire. If that is the case I would refrain from speaking about which you know nothing, it makes you look like an idiot.

    28. Re:Unibody? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Since we love car analogies here, do you think the trend towards non-removable batteries is comparable to the changes in car body design?

      Interesting question, but the answer is no.

      It seems older cars used body-on-frame and other designs that basically allowed the person performing the repair to unbolt parts, work on them or replace them, and then bolt them back on.

      No, they didn't. There's nothing keeping you from unbolting parts on a unibody car any more than on a body-on-frame car. The big difference you may be thinking of is working space in the engine bay: modern vehicles have less of it. But that's not because of unibodies, that's because cars are much more efficiently designed now and have a lot more stuff in the engine bay. There's also the assumption that for any serious repairs, you're going to have access to a lift.

      Maybe you're thinking of body repairs. That is true to an extent: usually the rear fenders of a unibody car are part of the body, and replacing them means cutting and welding. (Front fenders are usually bolted on and easily replaced.)

      That seems to be the trend with phones: A lightweight and small phone means a sealed case.

      Both of my smartphones (an HTC Sensation and now a Samsung S4) have removable batteries. They're not significantly heavier or more poorly sealed than phones with non-removable batteries. In fact, the Galaxy S5 is waterproof, and it has a replaceable battery. The trick is not being a lazy-ass when designing it. Have you even handled a modern phone with removable battery (like the S4 or S5), and taken the back off? It barely weighs anything. I'm sure the main reasons mfgrs have gone this way are 1) it's cheaper to make than having a good removable backplate, 2) extra sales potential for replacement batteries maybe (it works for Apple at least; call up your local Apple store and ask them how much it costs to get a new battery installed), and 3) they can save a half-millimeter or so of thickness, maybe. I'm sure the biggest reason by far is #1, it's the main reasons companies do anything that's unpopular with some customers. Saving $0.10 on 50 million devices means $5 million dollars.

      The other thing to note, since you're looking at the repairability aspect in comparison to cars, is that non-replaceable battery phones do not actually have non-replaceable batteries. They're replaceable, it's just a PITA to do. Apple does it all the time, as do independent repair shops. Basically it involves taking the back plate off somehow (some of them are glued on, so you need a heat gun to melt the glue, like on the Sony Xperias), then you can pop the battery out and replace it. It's probably attached with a small cable and connector. So it's not impossible by any means, but there's potential for damage, and it isn't easily done in the field, and is usually left to professionals who are experienced with the procedure (which means you have to pay labor rates at a retail store, which probably costs a lot more than a bare battery on Ebay). Whereas on a phone like the Galaxy S5, any moron can just pop off the back plate and pop in a replacement battery in a couple of minutes with no tools, which makes it easy to keep a spare or two and swap them out if you're traveling, for instance. Of if the battery goes bad, you can just buy one on Ebay and do it yourself for $20 instead of paying a mall store $100 (that's probably underestimating Apple's prices a lot).

    29. Re: Unibody? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Even better, there's USB versions of both these things. Those can come in handy if the built-in one on your laptop fails.

    30. Re: Unibody? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      While that is all true, those TV sets were going to be owned for a very long time. They were very expensive in the day and would be repaired multiple times.

      I remember a 25" TV that my family bought many years ago (early 80s) that cost over a thousand dollars.

      Today, I recently purchased an extra 50" 1080p TV for my office, paid $250 for it. That is perhaps 10% of the price in constant dollars of the TV from the 80s. If it stops working at some point, I'll throw it out and buy another.

      It would never be worth the labor dollars to repair.

    31. Re: Unibody? by trabby · · Score: 1

      The difference between my onboard realtek sound and my soundblaster zxr is night and day.

      As for ethernet I would only use a card if both of my onboard ports died or I want to do something a bit more crazy, like fiddle with 10 gigabit

    32. Re:Unibody? by Grishnakh · · Score: 3, Insightful

      That's a bunch of BS. Cars built in the last 2 decades are lasting longer than ever and easily going 100-200,000 miles without any major repairs. And who cares about reverse-engineering the software in your power steering controller anyway? If it goes bad (which it doesn't, because there's no hydraulic pump any more and rubber hoses to degrade, just an electric motor), then you just replace the parts; it's a simple bolt-in affair, and certainly much easier than messing around with hydraulic fluid taking a circuitous route around the engine compartment.

      Honestly, things are *simpler* now, from a repair perspective, and far improved in reliability. Those shitty old cars needed a LOT of work all the time; constant "tune ups" and adjustments, which modern cars don't ever need.

      Finally, electronics never fail, unless you have bad capacitors. No moving parts, remember?

    33. Re: Unibody? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Yes, but to do that required a normal sized computer case that you could open and swap parts in.

      Lots of new computers are coming in small form factors that won't enable you to do that.

      http://www.amazon.com/Intel-NU...

      That one for example, you won't be able to change the Ethernet card in that.

    34. Re:Unibody? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No, on a unibody car they just take apart some of the interior to get to the backside of the panel. It's not that hard.

    35. Re: Unibody? by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      But what of the parts? What did it die of? Trauma? Old age? Can it be fixed?

      Yeah, no one wants to fix a $250 computer. Devolving it back into constituent parts for recycling is also devilishly difficult. If your warranty doesn't replace it, then you're screwed, and must dispose of it and buy a replacement, perhaps in that order.

      User-replaceable parts are now at a minimum, down to the battery. The secondary repair business is becoming larger, but not necessarily with a vendor's help. Try getting an out of warranty notebook repaired. Or a tablet.... or a phone. It shouldn't have to be this way, but the consumerism element, buy buy buy, disciplines supply chains in a detrimental way--- detrimental to hackers, makers, hams, burners, whatever.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    36. Re: Unibody? by sjames · · Score: 1

      They make USB ethernet devices.

    37. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >brake rotors?

      You really don't know the first thing about being a mechanic. Those are basically the easiest item to replace on a vehicle and easily available at any parts store, even the shitty ones that hardly stock anything.

      >wheel bearings?

      I'm doing them at home right now, and they're even the shitty pressed in type. Only special tool required is a press. Harbor Freight sells a shitty one for $100 that will do the job. I'm taking advantage of it right now. The first use of the tool and it's paid for (Labour is $300 per side).

      >bent turbocharger shaft?

      Have not done that. I would personally go to a junkyard and pick up a replacement turbocharger. Probably easiest that way.

      >axle half-shafts?

      Replaced two of those. Lasted 5 years. Would have lasted longer if the vehicle hadn't rusted through to the point I gave up on repairing it and sent it off to the junkyard.

      >exhaust components?

      Are you shitting me? If there's one thing you can do in your own driveway, it's replacing a rotten exhaust. I've already done THREE exhaust systems in my driveway (I love buying a car for $1000 because it sounds like shit, knowing all I need to do is spend 5 hours fucking about with the exhaust to make it worth $3000 and sound great) $100 welder from Harbor Freight will help you if the stupid engineer didn't bolt everything together; it's not like you need good welds to stick exhaust pipes together safely. Again, the $100 was paid off the first use of the tool. And if they did, a $29 "dremel" tool will help cut the fasteners apart.

      And all these repairs were done in my driveway without even a lift. Outdoors. Sometimes in the rain. Damn, you engineers need to get out into the field a little more. No wonder I have to disassemble half the fucking steering system and suspension to replace the wheel bearings, or I have to remove the exhaust to replace the oil pan (On a 4x4 no less! You know, the kind of vehicle that is going to get a damaged oil pan more than once.).

      >none of these things are repairable and none of them are even replaceable without the explicit help of the manufacturer

      Roffle. You haven't even written a service manual, and you claim to be a mechanical engineer. I bet you got your degree at South Harmon Institute of Technology, didn't you?

      As for your claim about drive shafts having to be particularly special from the manufacturer, total bunk. Got 5 years out of a junkyard one that came from the same model of vehicle. Could have, for $100 more, had a brand new one. Only thing is you do have to take it to a drive shaft shop (yes, they exist!) and get it balanced. Oooooo... $50. I'm shaking at the extreme price. Yes, you do want to make sure it's made of the same material and thickness as what you took out, lest it twist if your torque is too high or blow up if your top speed is too high. Big deal. The drive shaft shop will make sure to sell you the right thing.

    38. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Based on how you're looking at it, nothing has ever been made that your average home user can fix, even a simple tin bucket.

      After all, when a hole rusts in the bottom, what is the end user to do? They do not have a tin mine in their backyard, nor a tin smelter, nor blacksmithing equipment, nor machinists tools to roll the grooves into it.

      No, they have to "rely" on a third party to stamp a piece of tin, "rely" on another third party to make an acetylene torch set and tanks, "rely" on another third party to fill those tanks with oxygen and acetylene, and then "rely" on a third party to make a brazing rod so they can repair it.

      Or, we can just be realistic and say that the end user actually can repair their own bucket by brazing on a patch.

    39. Re:Unibody? by Aqualung812 · · Score: 1

      Maybe you're thinking of body repairs.

      Absolutely. Based off the feedback I've seen, I did a shit job at explaining what I'm saying.

      Basically, I'm saying that older body designs for cars were heavier, not as strong, boxy, and easier to perform body repair work.

      Modern body design is stronger, lighter, sleeker, and more likely to have very expensive not-at-home repairs, or more severe damage that can't be repaired completely, like a bent frame.

      Modern phone battery replacement seems like modern car body work. It can be done, but it more expensive.

      I never meant to talk about car repairs in general, but due to the increased dependence on software and car maker douchebaggery, there are comparisons to be made there, too.

      --
      Grammer Nazis - I mod you "troll" unless you actually add something on-topic. Yes, I know I have mispellings in my sig.
    40. Re: Unibody? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      But what of the parts? What did it die of? Trauma? Old age? Can it be fixed?

      The new TV, or the old one?

      The old one was tossed out long ago due to being obsoluete.

      The new one? Lets say it dies in 3 years. It could be something as simple as a solder joint that has broken. If you knew the place that needed fixing, it could be a 5 min fix, after 30 min of opening up the TV carefully in a workspace designed to have a 50" safely opened up, then put back together.

      Of course, you have to find that problem first, it could be an hour, it could be three hours of someone's time to find it, and that is after opening up the TV in said "safe place to open up a 50" TV". Then you want a warranty on the repair.

      Then it might be something else, the capacitors might have gone bad, or perhaps a chip has become damaged, or perhaps the backlight is bad. All of that can be fixed...

      So the repair bill comes to $300 in parts and labor. For a TV that cost $250.

      Yep, that is why it'll get tossed out rather than fixed. Even if the repair bill was $150, that still isn't worth fixing. If the cost of repairs is more than about a 1/3 of the cost of a new one, just replace it.

    41. Re:Unibody? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      A sealed case means next to zero recycling. Don't be fooled by companies claimed that they'll recycle it if you return parts to them. It's all intended for landfill in a third world country. If we could replace batteries at least we'd be able to remove the battery first and have it separated into a more hazardous pile.

      Part of the point of having repairable goods is that we would produce less waste. We're returning to 70s essentially and treating everything as garbage to be tossed out the car window when we're done with it.

      If someone buys a $500 dress or suit, they tend to keep it, store it in a plastic bag even if it's outgrown (in hopes that maybe someday we can fit back in). But if we buy a $500 phone most of us dump in a year or two. This is not just planned obsolescence, but conspicuous consumption since these are almost all fashion statements rather than productivity helpers.

    42. Re: Unibody? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Yeah, no one wants to fix a $250 computer. Devolving it back into constituent parts for recycling is also devilishly difficult. If your warranty doesn't replace it, then you're screwed, and must dispose of it and buy a replacement, perhaps in that order.

      http://www.amazon.com/gp/produ...

      I recently purchased one of those ($349 directly from Amazon).

      For $349, I got a nice 15.6" notebook with a nice 1080p display, a nice Core i3 CPU, 4GB of RAM, 500GB hard drive, DVD burner, 802.11ac Wi-Fi, and it even comes with 1 year of accidental damage protection.

      I did replace the 500GB hard drive with a SSD, but lord that was a PITA. You have to more or less take the whole bloody thing apart, split the case in half, take off the keyboard, etc. It is doable, but not by the average consumer.

      By comparison, my last Dell notebook had a cover on the bottom where the HDD was and it was a 5 min swap.

      Still, I got a lot of computer for the money, but if it ever breaks outside of the warranty, it likely will be tossed out rather than repaired, since I'll be able to get a better one for the same, or less money.

      Yes, that is a shame, since it should at least be recycled. But the cost to recycle that computer properly likely exceeds the value of the raw materials that went into it.

    43. Re: Unibody? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      That is true... perhaps a better example would be, "you won't be able to change out the video card in that computer".

      Regardless, to get that smaller form factor, something has to be given up in the process, and that thing is the ability to install PCI or PCI-E add in cards.

    44. Re: Unibody? by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      However they were fixable. This meant that there could be a profitable business devoted to typewriter repair. This also points to the idea that typewriters were worth repairing! At the time when typewriters were in common us, nobody I knew of ever threw one away, they were *valuable*. Money used to be considered an important thing to have, and throwing a way a typewriter and buying a new one was stupid if you could save money and have it repaired instead, or at least donate the typewriter to a charity. It's a completely different way of thinking than today.

    45. Re: Unibody? by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Except for "dead" there are no diagnostics, bare minimum troubleshooting, perhaps in a language understandable by civilians, and depot repair-- often at considerable expense.

      We're a one-shot, throw-away world, where recycling is an afterthought, let alone, repurposing items.... or doing software/firmware updates, etc. Unless you mine ostensibly dead products for parts, they're not easily reclaimed somehow. As you cite, the labor bill becomes expensive, rather tenable, so a huge aftermarket now exists for re-manufacturing/refurbishing stuff, along with the websites that are filled with these things. The only people having fun are the freight forwarders.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    46. Re: Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In the days that circuit diagrams were commonly included, it was uncommon for there to be lawsuits from someone frying an expensive component or worse electrocuting themselves. I think this shift came about more from the legal side than from the accounting.

    47. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      His BMW dealer never mentioned those options.

    48. Re:Unibody? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      That seems to be the trend with phones: A lightweight and small phone means a sealed case.

      I prefer my phone to be thick enough not to bend when I hold it wrong.

    49. Re: Unibody? by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      The cost of devolution/recycling ought to be included in the price of the initial sale of the product. Then, vendors would be more conscious (I hope) of finding equitable recycling methods. I wonder some days, just how many recycled products we buy, like the refurb hard drives that vendors used to put into notebooks and desktop machines so as to keep their costs low.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    50. Re:Unibody? by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

      A lightweight and small phone means a sealed case.

      Add "waterproof" and you have my extended attention.

    51. Re: Unibody? by sjames · · Score: 1

      USB video card

      Also available as USB 3.0 for better performance.

    52. Re: Unibody? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      That is a fair point, and one worth talking about.

      Of course, you run the risk of it being just another tax. If the money isn't used to actually recycle computers and other items, and just goes into the general fund, then what has been improved?

      If that money went to directly recycling waste, I'd be more interested.

      Consider the plastic bottle deposit in California. You get it back if you recycle the bottles, but where does the money go for bottles that aren't recycled?

      If it goes to fund a large collection program for plastics in general that otherwise were not being recycled, then fine. But I suspect that is not the case.

    53. Re: Unibody? by postbigbang · · Score: 1

      Held in escrow, it makes sense, but political decisions are whimsical at best these days. Poised towards a third party, the escrowed funds might also build against inflation, too. Cheaper's not necessarily better, when the post-acquisition costs are born by the public, rather than the purchaser and vendor.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    54. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I wish that were all true, but...

      Time required to change headlight bulb in my car 15 years ago: 1-2 minutes.

      Time required to change headlight bulb in my current car: usually faster to drop by the dealer, because they seem to know a shortcut for doing it without disassembling the entire front of the car per the handbook and have whatever tools they need to take that shortcut.

      Time required to change headlight bulb in next generation car with state-of-the-art lighting: it's not one headlight bulb, it's a whole assembly with multiple lighting components, associated sensors, and software. And you'll be needing a mortgage if it ever goes wrong.

      Also, MTBF for headlight bulbs in my car 15 years ago was probably 2-3 years, while for my current car it's probably under a year despite all the claims that bulbs in modern cars should last the lifetime of the vehicle. $DEITY help the poor schmuck who gets a shiny new executive car with the cool new lighting technologies if those lights are similarly unreliable, though.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    55. Re:Unibody? by bws111 · · Score: 1

      I see you don't know how they actually recycle electronics. They don't recycle components, they recycle materials. Basically, they throw the entire device into a crusher and pulverize it, then use magnets, air currents, screens, chemical solutions, centrifuges, etc to recover the raw materials. Sealing the case has no impact on recyclability.

    56. Re:Unibody? by buck-yar · · Score: 1

      You should see the wiring diagram for the headlight circuit on my '98 Subaru Forester. High and low beam always receive 12v, the dimmer switch selects which gets ground. Which all works well, until someone puts in a similar bulb with the ground terminal on a different post. Now my dash electrical is messed up as the lighting circuit flows through that to light the high beam indicator. Its easier to run my own headlight wiring (w/3 relays).

    57. Re:Unibody? by buck-yar · · Score: 1

      Usually a cutoff wheel is used to cut, not a welder ;)

    58. Re: Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But you didn't remove the integrated components, and replace them on the motherboard.

      By that standard plugging in an external battery to the charging port would count as a user replaceable battery for a phone.

    59. Re: Unibody? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is pretty cool that they made that work... but that is for adding additional monitors to a system that already has a video card that works...

      If you plug that into a computer with no video card at all, it isn't going to help...

      Plus, that has major limits, 1080p video, no motion support (this isn't for watching videos, it has to compress the images to make it work).

      So if the video card breaks on your small form factor computer, this is not a solution.

      But thanks for playing! :D

    60. Re: Unibody? by sjames · · Score: 1

      He asked when I had seen a PC with a discrete ethernet card. I answered accurately. There was plenty of room in the case.

    61. Re: Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my experience, most USB wireless dongles have poor performance, they often overheat and stop working after a few minutes requiring that you unplug them to cool off, etc. They're convenient, sure, but they come with their own set of big problems. I can't accept USB as a replacement for a real NIC until it performs as well as or better than a real NIC, at the same or lower price.

    62. Re: Unibody? by sjames · · Score: 1

      It should work OK other than not seeing POST. If it has serial console support (only a select few desktop class machines do, admittedly) that could be OK. To watch movies, it would need to be one of the higher end devices with USB3.

      Of course, hard to impossible to replace video on a PC is more forgivable than the battery in a phone since batteries basically start going down hill from first use while PC video rarely fails.

      Likewise, the screen on a phone is a high risk item and should be fairly easy to replace.

      Of course, it's easy to find a PC without that problem if it is at all a concern. It's becoming a real problem to find a phone that can be fixed practically.

    63. Re: Unibody? by sjames · · Score: 1

      I didn't say wireless. I mean plug LAN cable in to dongle and dongle in to USB port.

      I used one of those for several years on another PC, never had a problem.

    64. Re:Unibody? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It's not "douchebaggery". Modern cars really aren't meant to be repaired that much in the case of collisions, because they're going to crumple. The whole idea is that the front and rear ends crumple to absorb energy, instead of you getting tossed around and killed or maimed. The downside is that car can't handle lower-speed collisions as well (which is fine, you can get whiplash at shockingly low speeds) without being totalled. It's better to trash the car and avoid medical bills; it's easy to just get a new car, it's not so easy to repair medical problems, or to resurrect someone.

      As for strength and weight, older cars didn't actually weigh that much like people think. The steel probably weighed more, but they didn't have as much other stuff inside. Cars are pretty heavy these days because of all the safety equipment and soundproofing. Also, cars back then weren't very strong because they used cheap-ass steel. Now they use a lot of high-strength steel, which is both stronger and lighter.

      Here's a discussion about how much 60s Mustangs weighed. They're 3000 pounds and less, about the same as a modern compact.

    65. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Finally, electronics never fail, unless you have bad capacitors. No moving parts, remember?

      Umm, no. That might be (mostly) true for not-too-old electronics sitting on a desk in an air-conditioned office/home somewhere with a nice clean power supply, but that's not car electronics. It exists in a bouncy, jolting environment, subjected to extremes (and extreme swings) of temperature that home electronics simply won't see (think of the temperature swing near the engine for a car left overnight in the snow, then driven for a few hours). Small things like slightly dodgy solder joints and not-quite plugged-in-properly connectors that would be fine on a desk become an issue. Things expand/shrink and work loose. Parts operating well within their published wattage get way hotter than they otherwise would and fail. And there is a reason for the temperature tolerance ratings on electrolytics.

    66. Re:Unibody? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Maybe I should have said "properly-designed and assembled electronics" then. Automotive-grade components exist for a reason, and proper design means designing everything to handle temperature extremes within the -40-85 range (IIRC). So no, they don't get "way hotter than they otherwise would", unless someone totally screwed up on the design and didn't account for temperature extremes and ventilation problems, and no testing was done in an environmental chamber.

      Finally, electronics problems simply haven't proven to be a serious problem in modern cars.

    67. Re:Unibody? by Toshito · · Score: 1

      The last time I changed a headlight bulb was more than 10 years ago.

      In fact, in all the cars I had in my 25 years of driving (we're talking about 11 or 12 cars) I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times I had to change a bulb, any bulb.

      --
      Try it! Library of Babel
    68. Re:Unibody? by itsenrique · · Score: 1

      Pure luck? They do still go bad.

    69. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do you complain when a new technology is introduced simply because now you don't know how to do what you used to do? Or do you spend a little bit to learn how the new technology works, and how to use it, and rather (if you will complain) complain about how the new technology is of a poor standard?

      Read up about the "service position" on modern cars and get back to me with a useful complaint. Your complaint is the equivalent of grandma being unhappy because she doesn't have a start button anymore, but instead all these tiles to click on for her apps. It's a shitty complaint until you get into what the actual issue is, rather than "I don't know how to do this now".

      You might be surprised at how easy the service position is to get your car into, once you've done it a couple of times.

    70. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      Which part of "per the handbook" didn't you understand?

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    71. Re:Unibody? by slavdude · · Score: 1

      Finally, electronics never fail, unless you have bad capacitors. No moving parts, remember?

      If that's the case, why bother replacing an electronic device, or have any repair plans at all? Yes, if electronics were properly constructed, they would never fail. But they aren't, and they do, inevitably. Eventually the laws of physics catch up. The perpetual-motion machine is a myth.

    72. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is an anomaly and not the rule. You've literally cherry picked an extreme example to make your case, and anyone who knows anything about automobiles can see strait through this kind of intellectual dishonesty.

      Newer headlights are harder to work on because they have auto leveling (since about a decade ago) and turn with the car (since about five years ago). Some will even clean themselves when they start getting dull.

      Who knows what else they do nowadays, those are just the obvious ones to consumers. I much prefer the newer assemblies over older ones, no matter how much more difficult they are to change.

    73. Re:Unibody? by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · · Score: 1

      There is nothing extreme about my example. The robustness or otherwise of car headlights is a recurring issue here in the UK these days, not least because of many local councils' obsessions with speed bumps.

      And my current car has neither auto-levelling nor turning, being slightly before either was added to the model I have, so your argument about "intellectual dishonesty" is just... Well, I don't even know what those words are supposed to mean, other than the person writing them is trying to sound clever, but in any case there's nothing dishonest about what I wrote as it's all objectively correct.

      It's also true that modern cars are more efficient and in some respects more reliable than older ones, but the downside is that when they do go wrong, it tends to be catastrophic failure that requires an entire component or system swapping out. It's not just little things like headlights. It's also all the sensors that support all this clever new technology, and they most certainly can and do go wrong, and the replacements for those cost a lot more than a headlight bulb. We've replaced mechanical faults with electrical ones that require more skill and more equipment and much more expensive parts to fix.

      We're also introducing a whole new class of faults, because the quality of the software in many modern cars is shocking, and for exactly the reasons this discussion was started, that's a big problem. We have both incompetence and malice to worry about, but with the car companies going to great lengths to lock up their software against inspection and adjustment, there is essentially nothing anyone else can legally do to repair or protect the vehicle even if a software flaw is clearly identified.

      --
      If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
    74. Re:Unibody? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      If that's the case, why bother replacing an electronic device, or have any repair plans at all?

      Because there's always the 0.01% that does fail from slightly defective components or whatever, even when the electronics are properly constructed. Nothing is 100%. However, history has proven many times that electronic systems are far-and-away more reliable than mechanical ones. This can easily be seen in cars: modern cars are full of electronics, and have far higher reliability than older models which had more mechanical parts and adjustments. (And no, your one anecdote about some electronic module failing is not proof of the opposite.)

    75. Re: Unibody? by Agripa · · Score: 1

      You can still fix those cars/devices, it's just a little harder, especially for the people used to the old 'bolt and ratchet' style.

      Not legally:

      http://www.npr.org/sections/al...
      http://www.wired.com/2015/04/d...

    76. Re: Unibody? by Agripa · · Score: 1

      The "intellectual property" behind schematics, source code, is the rubric given for not releasing schematics, construction models/diagrams and repair components-- but also because they don't want to support the costs of modders, hackers, and others from whom they make not one penny. A few vendors are smart enough to make a few pennies from these communities, but it's not the focus of their business.

      Schematics and detailed service manuals disappeared around 1990 and *before* electronics became too difficult to repair.

    77. Re: Unibody? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      The last computer I remember seeing without a built-in NIC is a very early (Socket 423) Pentium 4 system from HP c. 2001 or so. The last one without a sound card was actually pretty recent. A whitebox dual CPU workstation built with what is essentially a server board which had no sound (well, most likely the chipset had built in sound but there were no ports on the board and it was disabled in firmware).

    78. Re:Unibody? by toddestan · · Score: 1

      No, older cars are definitely easier to work on. They were dead simple, easy to understand, generally don't require special tools, and generally were built to be serviced with plenty of room to work and anything that might need to be replaced was easily accessible. Anyone with some mechanical know-how and basic electronics can keep one going. The downside of course is that these cars generally needed constant tinkering to keep them running at top shape.

      Newer cars don't require the constant tinkering. Turn the key and go. My bicycle requires more fiddling than my car, despite the car being incredibly more complex than a bike (and the car is 16 years old!). But when something breaks, newer cars are much harder to fix. I'm already finding it's getting a bit hard to find some parts for my car (it was not a terribly popular model when it came out). At some point something will go wrong and I may not be able to get the parts to fix it, or be able to get the parts in a reasonable time. It's hard to say exactly when that will happen. It could be 10 years or more away. But at some point it will be the case.

    79. Re:Unibody? by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Cars today do not require special tools any more than old ones did, with the exception (for many newer cars) of a laptop with special software to access certain systems in the car. For most things though, this isn't necessary; you don't need that for changing the oil, fixing the breaks, changing the spark plugs, etc. It's only really needed for diagnosing engine problems, and even then a lot of things will show up with a standard OBD2 scan tool from Autozone.

      As for finding parts, as with any product, it helps to pick something popular instead of something terribly unpopular. Popular cars will have parts available for decades, maybe longer (is it hard to get parts for a late-60s Mustang? I don't think so). What kind of unpopular car did you get anyway? But even so, junkyard/reman parts should still be available.

  4. you heard it here folks by nimbius · · Score: 1

    This is a newspaper -- bought and wholly owned by Rupert Murdoch and beholden to so much baggage of the gloomy old party-- advocating for at best copyright reform and at worst, a long winded cry for help to their sons and daughters to figure out how to get the DVR to record matlock tonight. DRM is preventing them from figuring out how to get steely dans greatest hits from iTunes to their Zune and its high time something be done.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:you heard it here folks by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

      Well at least I know who the idiot AC has always been

    2. Re:you heard it here folks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I can't tell if troll or stupid partisan hack.

    3. Re:you heard it here folks by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      yes

  5. Product Liability by tomhath · · Score: 1

    If the product injures someone, the manufacturer gets sued. Doesn't matter if the owner or a repair person opened it up and modified it, even if the manufacturer is only 1% at fault, they have the deep pockets so they pay.

    1. Re:Product Liability by itsenrique · · Score: 2

      Really? When was the last time someone won a case against an auto manufacturer over something that was inappropriately serviced? They have the money to pay experts to find out what really happened, it's just easier/cheaper to settle in most cases apparently. Appropriate warnings have got to have legal weight as well. The reason they want you to to not repair your old stuff is because they make money when you buy new stuff.

  6. Laugh at those fixed battery folks by Kludge · · Score: 1

    Everytime someone drops a phone into water, the first thing I say "Take the battery out and dry the phone for a couple days." Unless they have an "iPhone", in which case I laugh and say, "You're screwed."

    1. Re:Laugh at those fixed battery folks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually my daughter found an iPhone 5 in the Delaware River. The screen was cracked, but it still worked.

    2. Re:Laugh at those fixed battery folks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hmm, yeah, well the battery thing is fine on phones that allow it. My wife dropped her Nexus 6 in the toilet the other day. No removable battery. Power it off, shake the water out of the ports (USB and headphone) - shake very well for a long period, then place in a ziplock with either a desiccant or rice if you don't have a desiccant (we didn't). It came out fine two days later. Not screwed at all. Works fine.

    3. Re:Laugh at those fixed battery folks by Rei · · Score: 1

      then place in a ziplock with either a desiccant or rice if you don't have a desiccant (we didn't)

      Rice works best.

      --
      You don't exist. Go away.
    4. Re:Laugh at those fixed battery folks by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Works fine... For now...

      The damage that water does to phones/electronics is not always apparent. The residue that evaporating water leaves behind tends to be conductive and when it soaks connectors it will encourage corrosion of the contacts. Water can also damage individual components, though most cell phones use coatings on circuit cards to keep that from happening. So, that phone that survived the dunking is pretty likely going to have future problems and I'd start planning to replace it.

      The best way to deal with this is to totally disassemble the phone and rinse in distilled water, blow dry with low pressure clean air, clean all the contacts with a light solvent and then allow the device to completely dry before reassembling. Replace any parts where water intrusion is an issue, this includes batteries, cameras and possibly touch screens.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    5. Re:Laugh at those fixed battery folks by swillden · · Score: 1

      Hmm, yeah, well the battery thing is fine on phones that allow it. My wife dropped her Nexus 6 in the toilet the other day. No removable battery. Power it off, shake the water out of the ports (USB and headphone) - shake very well for a long period, then place in a ziplock with either a desiccant or rice if you don't have a desiccant (we didn't). It came out fine two days later. Not screwed at all. Works fine.

      Note that the Nexus 6 doesn't have a formal IP water resistance rating, but it is sold as being water resistant and in practice N6s do seem to survive brief dunkings or splashing with no harm, even without using a dessicant. http://www.phonearena.com/news...

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
  7. For a reason..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Would you be able to repair your new OLED TV ? I sincerely doubt it. In some cases, yes, the limitations are frustrating (for instance you WOULD be able to repair your vacuum cleaner, were the case not glued), but in most cases you would just look in amazement to the inner workings of modern appliances.

    1. Re: For a reason..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, since the most common failure mode is bad power supply capacitors. Anyway, the ability of the average person to repair isn't the issue. The issue is that those capable of repairing are thwarted.

    2. Re:For a reason..... by Guybrush_T · · Score: 2

      Just the opposite. Of course you won't fix a dead pixel. But very often, the failing part is a really dumb component.

      In those frequent cases, it is very frustrating to throw away a wonderful piece of technology (the OLED screen) because a stupid capacitor or resistor that is broken somewhere (but you don't know which one, of course).

    3. Re:For a reason..... by mordjah · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Pffft! Come on.. PSU, main board, sound board, breakouts for controls, driver board.. Come on. Not a big deal.. Sure, you aren't doing any component level repair any more beyond some shitty cheapo dried caps , but that ship sailed a while ago unless you are a hobbiest with good tools and a steady hand. It pisses me off to no end that you cannot even buy a repair manual unless you are a "factory authorized service center" no matter how out of warranty.

      --
      "A mind reader? That sounds like sci fi." "Honey, we live on a space ship"
    4. Re:For a reason..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Have you ever looked inside a computer? If so, then a TV will be a cakewalk. Most "failed" tvs are bad caps, or a loose ribbon cable.

    5. Re:For a reason..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I get payed $100/hr. A new vacuum cleaner costs $80 with free amazon shipping. Why would I even momentarily consider fixing it. It's barely worth my time to replace he bag.

    6. Re:For a reason..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ^ This....

      I've had simple devices (2000s audio amp) that didn't even use surface soldering that I couldn't repair there was no access to the schematics to do proper diagnosing. I knew there were some power supply caps that were bad, and did replace them, but there was still some other problems caused by the failing capacitors and couldn't find the cause. Some service manuals can be found on some sites, but only because some people have upload them, not because the manufacturer made it available.

      Some years ago and because pressure from the independent shop community, car makers were FORCED to make repair manuals and tools available so newer cars could be fixed, even luxury brands like BMW (https://www.bmwtechinfo.com/) and this has worked for some years now. There have been no class actions from morons who tried repairing their cars using this info. And yes, even a regular Joe can access the info if they pay a basic subscription.

      If gadgets manufacturers were to make all the service available, more info would be floating around so regular people with some basic soldering skills can repair their stuff...

    7. Re:For a reason..... by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 1

      The one thing saving the TV/monitor aftermarket is all the klutzes who manage to do something visibly terminal to the display panel while leaving the assorted support boards intact.

      If you have to depend on the aftermarket, it pays to have a different failure than the majority of owners.

    8. Re:For a reason..... by Immerman · · Score: 1

      It's not "you" that you need to be considering though - it's "your buddy that's good at fixing things". Slip her a twenty or two and she'll tear it apart and probably get it working again for you. My mom used to do that all the time in the 80s, and she didn't know the first thing about appliances: Just tear it apart, look for obviously broken parts, slipped belts, etc, and put it back together again. Probably 4 times out of 5 it would work fine after that, even if she wasn't sure what she had done. Granted electronics have gotten more complicated since then, but a failed capacitor or resistor is still usually the culprit, and anyone with a steady hand and the ability to read specs off the component can fix those.

      Heck, even today my local Maker Space has a monthly "Fix-It day" when people bring in broken stuff just to see if anyone else can fix it before they go out and replace it. Everything from impact wrenches to computers to torn sweaters. Everyone is welcome to try their hand at fixing something if they feel up to it, and it makes for a fun social event.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    9. Re:For a reason..... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Surface mount components make repair work a matter of just replacing a circuit card these days. NOBODY in their right mind digs out the soldering iron and replaces that capacitor these days, unless the cost to replace the card exceeds the logistical costs of maintaining the staff and equipment. It rarely does.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    10. Re:For a reason..... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      You don't "repair" anything, you replace circuit cards these days. Failed capacitors and you replace the circuit card..

      You see, the consumer wanted CHEAP acquisition costs, not something that was easily repaired. The manufacturer doesn't care about much about repair after the warranty runs out. These things are NOT built for easy repair, they are throw away devices now.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    11. Re:For a reason..... by Guybrush_T · · Score: 1

      What often breaks are components on the power circuitry. Those components are large and easy to change. I recently had an ATX power supply fail ; all were normal components. Same for a microwave oven : a lot of good old big transistors/capacitors/resistors ... and a microcontroller.

    12. Re:For a reason..... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Oh sure, if you want to replace that electrolytic that exploded, be my guest. It's easy enough... In fact, any leaded component is generally easy to replace.

      But what I'm saying is that it doesn't make sense for a manufacturer to provide the information or stock the replacement parts for component level repairs on consumer electronics. There are intellectual property issues, logistical issues and parts stocking that just make this too expensive for a manufacturer. While they have the item in production and for the warranty period after production stops, they can easily stock replacement circuit cards necessary for warranty work. After that, forget it. They won't risk their intellectual property and expose their designs by providing service information. The cost and risk is not worth it. It's cheaper just to build extra circuit cards and limit "repairs" to authorized repair centers who have NDA's in place.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    13. Re:For a reason..... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Failed capacitors ARE easily repaired. If you can't do it, then your soldering skills suck and that's your own fault. Isn't this supposed to be a site for nerds? What is with all these morons today who can't fix the simplest things? Can't replace capacitors (basic soldering), can't fix disc brakes (see the car discussion above with all the morons saying cars made in the last 20 years aren't repairable), you people are all pathetic.

    14. Re:For a reason..... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Oh I know I cannot solder... I went to class on the subject and learned that it takes a lot of practice and the right equipment to do it right and even armed with the proper knowledge and equipment it is beyond my skill level to do it right. I'm betting YOU cannot do it right either even for the very few "through the hole" mounted components you might actually find.

      With today's lead free solder, surface mounted devices and the expense of getting the proper equipment in place, it is nearly beyond the reasonable limits for your electronic experimenter to solder on consumer electronic equipment. Yea, I have dabbled in all of this, but I know my limits and what I can reasonably expect to repair and what to just throw away. The vast majority of people they don't even open the case but throw it away and buy a new one. For those who don't mind cracking open the case, we are usually limited to replacing whole circuit cards and occasionally repairing something, but unless the failure is readily apparent upon visual inspection, you are SOL and throw it away in pieces.

      On the rare occasion the problem is visually apparent, there are few instances where a soldering iron will be helpful, and a leaking electrolytic capacitor covers about half of the cases I can imagine. But unless you do this kind of thing for a living, I can almost guarantee that your soldering job will be less than ideal though the device may function when you are done. You won't have the right equipment, supplies or use the proper techniques to "do it right".

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    15. Re:For a reason..... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I'm betting YOU cannot do it right either even for the very few "through the hole" mounted components you might actually find.

      You'd lose that bet. I've been soldering for 25 years, since I was a teenager. I can solder thru-hole, SMT (down to 0603), and I have a hot-air rework station too.

      With today's lead free solder, surface mounted devices and the expense of getting the proper equipment in place, it is nearly beyond the reasonable limits for your electronic experimenter to solder on consumer electronic equipment.

      Complete and total BS; this is just like all the fools who complain that "you can't work on cars any more because there's too many electronics!". Electronics are easier than ever to work on as long as you stick with stuff that isn't too small. These days, Makerspaces are all holding soldering classes, people are buying Arduinos left and right, and you can buy a very nice Hakko temperature-controlled soldering station for about $90. Hot-air rework stations are more, but a cheap but workable Chinese model is only about $100-125. When I was young, those temperature-controlled stations cost a fortune so everyone used those shitty 25W irons. Components were a lot more delicate back then too, so it was easy to burn them without a temp-controlled iron; these days with lead-free, they've had to increase temperature tolerance a lot.

      You won't have the right equipment, supplies or use the proper techniques to "do it right".

      Go tell that to the people at your local Makerspace.

    16. Re:For a reason..... by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Then you make my point... I too have been doing this sort of thing off and on for 20+ years, but I'm an electrical engineer who knows that the certified lab tech does a better job at some things and I'm wasting time when I pick up a soldering iron. Yea, I can sometimes manage, but generally I'm slow, messy and I'm likely to cause damage when I do. You are equipped and claim to be skilled (which I seriously doubt unless you've been formally trained or do it professionally). If you actually are that is rare. Most people I know who claim to be skilled in soldering, really are horrible like me, they just don't understand what good soldering looks like and don't understand how difficult it really is to do it right. They just glob on the solder and it usually works,

      I'd be willing to bet that the percentage of people who are reading slashdot that are equipped, skilled and capable of doing what you say you can do is vanishingly small and well under a fraction of a percent. My guess is that you, me and a handful of others are about it, even on Slashdot, and of those who claim to be able to, most really are not all that skilled.

      Further, who's going to buy a $90 soldering iron to repair a $200 TV? Nobody in their right mind... Some, like you, might have the equipment for other reasons, professional tools or hobby use, but I'm telling you that the number of folks who have this stuff laying around is going to be pretty limited, even for slahsdot readers.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    17. Re:For a reason..... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      I'm not expecting the average man on the street to get a $90 soldering iron to repair a $200 (or even $600) TV, but I do have higher expectations of the Slashdot crowd. I guess I'm expecting too much.

      Many of my EE colleagues seem to be similar to me (I'm a EE too).

  8. Story I heard by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Awhile back there was an entire university department that was unable to print documents because the line printer went down and they didn't have the source code for the printer driver.

    People need to get organized for their rights.

    1. Re:Story I heard by Holi · · Score: 1

      Ok, explain how the source code for a driver is going to fix a broken printer?

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    2. Re:Story I heard by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 2

      That was a GNU/Richard Stallman reference. Allegedly, being dicked around by the vendor of the fancy new laser printer with the magic binary driver that he wasn't allowed to fix helped inspire him to recognize the importance of software freedom.

      Unfortunately, these days it'd be a fancy new laser printer with a binary driver, a EULA forbidding everything including running 'strings' against it, and a vendor hellbent on asserting that copyright, patent, or both, rights allow them eternal control over what consumables the device will deign to interact with(*cough* Lexmark *cough*). I don't know if that origin story is true or not; but it is practically edenic by comparison to the current situation.

    3. Re:Story I heard by tepples · · Score: 1

      AC is referring to the printer driver kerfuffle that kicked off the GNU project. Not being privy to its details, I can only guess.

      My first guess is that a modified driver might operate the printer in a reduced functionality mode until the printer can be repaired. It's like inkjet printers whose official driver can't print black if the color cartridge is missing or empty. The official driver needs to spray yellow dots over the paper to make counterfeit currency trackable, but a modified driver would just ignore the color cartridge.

      My second guess is that a modified driver could be made to work on a different operating system, allowing this printer to temporarily replace a broken printer connected to another system that is out for repairs.

    4. Re:Story I heard by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, these days it'd be a fancy new laser printer with a binary driver, a EULA forbidding everything including running 'strings' against it, and a vendor hellbent on asserting that copyright, patent, or both, rights allow them eternal control over what consumables the device will deign to interact with(*cough* Lexmark *cough*). I don't know if that origin story is true or not; but it is practically edenic by comparison to the current situation.

      unfortunately for you and your stupid argument, stallman and others managed to convince printer manufacturers to use public industry standard protocols for talking to printers, so today he would have been able to just print out his document without difficulty

    5. Re:Story I heard by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      No, they didn't.

      Yes, any *good* printer uses industry-standard protocols like PS and PDF (or some manufacturer-specific ones like PCL or whatever Brother's script is called), however your typical $30 consumer inkjet printer is not like this, and does all the processing in a binary driver (which is Windows-only of course). And then people complain that "Linux doesn't have any printer drivers". It's really pathetic too since you can get a $100 laser printer from Samsung these days which works just fine with Linux.

  9. Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by axafg00b · · Score: 1

    Anyone might think something as low-tech as a washing machine would be easily self-repairable. When my mid-2000's front loader started sounding like a cement mixer, I went to the Intertubes and found relevant and well-documented repair videos. When I got to the end of the first video covering the complete teardown of said washer, ending with a requirement to find "a strong friend for the next steps" I called my local retailer and purchased a new washing machine. The point here is that while it would be nice to be able to fix some of the devices we own, sometimes the investment in time, money, health and frustration are not worth it versus replacing the broken device outright.

    --
    I think, therefore I am - Rene Descartes; I yam what I yam, an' that's what I yam - Popeye
    1. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this is why we have an environmental problem. If people would fix what they have instead of constantly replacing it, lots of environmental damage caused by manufacturing and transport could be avoided.

      But I notice no "Green" group ever mentions this.

    2. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 1

      Washing machines are not low tech. They include circuit boards now for controlling the cycles. So if you have a faulty circuit board you need to get a replacement. Which depending on the availability of parts is quite doable.

    3. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Washing machines are not low tech. They include circuit boards now for controlling the cycles.

      washing machines from the 1960s have circuit boards in them

    4. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by Rei · · Score: 2

      Not everything is as tough to fix as a washing machine. For example, I live in a little island country and imported low-volume goods are very expensive. A hinged plastic door on the cheese compartment has now twice fallen out of my refrigerator - whether the hinge breaks first or after it hits the ground I don't know, but it's some sort of design flaw. It's just a little piece of thin plastic, but getting a replacement costs about $40 USD. It would be a lot cheaper to 3d print a new one... but of course, like 99.99999% of all parts on Earth, there's no publicly-available model.

      Hmm, maybe I should check into whether anyone in the country has a 3d geometry capture setup... then I could not only print out a replacement, but also modify the model to stop it from breaking and/or falling out so readily.

      --
      You don't exist. Go away.
    5. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by Immerman · · Score: 2

      You left out one big point: did you call your local back-yard washing appliance repairman to see what the repairs would cost before giving up?

      It's all part of the same phenomena:
      - They don't make repair information readily available except to overpriced "Factory authorized" repair centers, if at all
      - They usually don't design the machines to be repaired in the first place, why would they when nobody repairs them cost effectively?
      because
      - They make a lot more money if you buy a new machine rather than repairing your old one
      - Most consumers would rather save $50 up front than buy a machine that was designed to be repaired (often because it's not obvious at the time of purchase)

      That last point is a real kicker, and has helped this phenomena snowball. You can still buy most appliances, etc. in "repair friendly" models, but usually only at the high end. At the low and midrange you'd end up with two basically identical products, one of which was substantially more expensive because of features that are only apparent after unboxing and dismantling them.

      Perhaps we could start a new trend to counteract the decline, something like a "Certified Repair Friendly" logo that could be put on appliances so you'd know up front that the premium you're paying is getting you something designed to be repairable, and free access to official repair documentation. Sort of like Energy Star id for appliances where the premium bought you greater energy efficiency that would pay off in the long term. Maybe even a couple grades, like silver and gold, to indicate whether it's competent repair-man friendly, or fully DIY repairable.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    6. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by tlambert · · Score: 2

      And this is why we have an environmental problem. If people would fix what they have instead of constantly replacing it, lots of environmental damage caused by manufacturing and transport could be avoided.

      But I notice no "Green" group ever mentions this.

      You could get the same net effect by the green groups offering repair services that were cheaper than a new purchase, or by the green groups offering to haul the old stuff away, and refurbish it, and sell it to other people so that they *don't* buy new stuff.

      Of course, the problem with that is that the equipment is till going to take energy to operate, and the green groups would generally prefer we live in caves or trees, after at least 90% of the human population is "unfortunately" killed off by something.

    7. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 1

      Except those washing machines won't ever die. They are like the Model 500 phones or IBM Model M keyboards. Even if something does go wrong on them it is usually a simple fix. I have a Maytag washer from the early 70s the only issue I have had is that my wife is really good at overloading it so the little stupid plastic clip for the agitator ratcheting mechanism brakes and it just spins freely at that point.

      --
      Time to offend someone
    8. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by tepples · · Score: 1

      Is there a reason that washing machines can't just use a commodity control board, such as a BeagleBone or Raspberry Pi or Arduino product, in a compartment sealed off from the "wet" components?

    9. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not everything is as tough to fix as a washing machine. For example, I live in a little island country and imported low-volume goods are very expensive. A hinged plastic door on the cheese compartment has now twice fallen out of my refrigerator - whether the hinge breaks first or after it hits the ground I don't know, but it's some sort of design flaw. It's just a little piece of thin plastic, but getting a replacement costs about $40 USD. It would be a lot cheaper to 3d print a new one... but of course, like 99.99999% of all parts on Earth, there's no publicly-available model.

      Hmm, maybe I should check into whether anyone in the country has a 3d geometry capture setup... then I could not only print out a replacement, but also modify the model to stop it from breaking and/or falling out so readily.

      Take the broken one to the local metal shop or garage. They can make the hinge piece from metal for you, rivet the plastic door to it and you're good to go, stronger than the original.

    10. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by bobbied · · Score: 1

      And this is why we have an environmental problem. If people would fix what they have instead of constantly replacing it, lots of environmental damage caused by manufacturing and transport could be avoided.

      But I notice no "Green" group ever mentions this.

      Put the blame where it belongs here, on Consumers... Manufacturers have little incentive to build electronic stuff that is repairable, it's too expensive. Couple that with intellectual property licenses, logistics and making their designs public though the publication of service manuals it only makes sense that manufacturers do this. We are lucky manufacturers care enough to make things like TV's durable enough that we can reasonably expect them to work well past the warranty.

      Consumers want CHEAP electronics, and will usually buy the cheaper device all things being equal. We get what we want and trying to market your device as "green" doesn't enhance a manufacturer's profits. Oh sure, they will give lip service to "green" by getting certifications like "energy star" and the like, but marketing yourself as "Green" because it can be repaired just doesn't make sense to most consumers.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    11. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Except those washing machines won't ever die..

      what are you talking about? the rubber seals and hoses and belts will die even if you're not using it. The plastic will degrade badly (yes they used plastic parts in 1960s washing machines). The shellac on the motor windings will be degraded and the motor will have poor performance and get very hot.

      old appliances are shit. get new ones, they are made much better, they last much longer and they are much more efficient.

    12. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      - They usually don't design the machines to be repaired in the first place,

      they are designed to be repaired, by people with the right tools and the right experience

      they are not designed to be repaired by joe blow with a wal-mart screwdriver and pliers

    13. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Sometimes, but usually not. Sure, most things *can* be repaired by someone with enough expertise and the right tools, but there's not really any way to stop that short of encasing everything in a thick layer of epoxy.

      There's lots of design decisions that must be made somewhere on the spectrum between "cheap to manufacture" and "cheap to repair", and these days the needle is usually pegged at the manufacturing end of the spectrum. Fuses soldered to circuit boards, power supplies with failure-prone components integrated into the same board as the rest of the circuit that rarely fails, etc. It doesn't have to be that way - open up an appliance from the 70s and you'll find a half-dozen different circuit boards that isolate components so that repairs just mean unplugging some jumpers around the failed board and replacing it. They could do that today as well, but it would increase the up-front price of the appliance considerably.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    14. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by axafg00b · · Score: 1

      So - context:

      1) Replacement parts were $100-150; which led me to think "Gee, I can do this!"
      2) Reviewed video and decided "Nope" because of the time and effort needed.
      3) Contacted local repair person(s) who stated (even after I told them what the problem was) they wanted to come on site. Finally, one gave me a ballpark $700-900 figure parts and labor,
      4) Ordered new machine with a net cost less than the repair price thanks to my company's program to replace older appliances with newer (and hopefully more efficient) appliances

      I realize that there is a landfill issue, but that is a secondary or tertiary issue when compared to having no washer over the holiday season (and a very upset spousal unit!). By contrast, when our dryer stopped drying a few months later, all it took was $45 in parts and about an hour of my time to replace two sensors and a heating element. Dryer now works properly.

      I would rather that firms spend a little thought up front to make the current state of the art last a little longer, especially now that prices are getting into the ridiculous range.

      --
      I think, therefore I am - Rene Descartes; I yam what I yam, an' that's what I yam - Popeye
    15. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      old appliances are shit. get new ones, they are made much better, they last much longer and they are much more efficient.

      Say that about today's appliances again in 2060.

    16. Re:Sometimes knowledge saves your back! by Rei · · Score: 1

      Both times the plastic door has broken on the floor after falling. It could be epoxied back together but would be pretty ugly - and if not epoxied right then the hinge positioning would be off. It's all one piece, there is no separate hinge, just two nubs on each end that slot into holes in the refrigerator where they can rotate freely.

      --
      You don't exist. Go away.
  10. Re: The right to shit shapes! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fair enough

  11. FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by jddj · · Score: 4, Informative

    The FCC is currently trying to end 3rd-party wifi router firmware (think Tomato, DD-WRT, OpenWRT, etc.), by requiring manufacturers to build devices that only accept firmware updates signed with the manufacturer's keys.

    This means you'll only be able to install software the manufacturer has certified comes with their own bugs, embedded backdoors and security #fails, rather than be able to put something better on your hardware.

    It also may mean that router manufacturers will be required to place NSA backdoors in the firmware and be unable to tell consumers about them due to National Security Letters.

    The WSJ is right: We Need The Right To Repair Our Gadgets.

    1. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      I guess then it's back to running an old piece of hardware with two NICs if you want to be safe.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is the issue I am really concerned about. It basically is saying that the government wants to actually enforce and require that we don't actually have the right to use the hardware we bought as we wish. Why would I not be allowed to run whatever software on that hardware. I may end up doing something wrong with it but then I could just as easily do something wrong with a few wires and a R/C circuit (as far as FCC interference goes) so it should be that behavior that is illegal and not the use of whatever software I want on hardware I own.

      (I actually think it should be illegal to prevent a customer from running their own software if they wish - not that it would mean that it would be easy given that you would need to know how to actually write the code to control the hardware, but it should not be prevented.)

    3. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by jonnythan · · Score: 4, Informative

      They're trying to end 3rd party *radio* firmware, because so many of them allow you to boost power levels well beyond what is allowed by current regulations.

      They don't give a whit about router firmware. Of course, the end result will probably be manufacturers locking down router firmware entirely, but all they would need to do is lock down the radio itself.

    4. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by kheldan · · Score: 1

      You really think the whole 'signing' thing is going to stop anyone? That'll be broken quickly enough, and someone will produce a tool to 'sign' firmware images so you can use your own, and there's not a whole hell of a lot they can do to stop that, either.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    5. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Shockingly my car allows me to go faster than the speed limit!

      How on earth did they let THAT pass production?

    6. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by fhage · · Score: 1
      It's not really about power output on home/office AP's. The problem primarily comes from idiots broadcasting in the unlicensed 5Ghz band using a high gain antenna with a direct view of a nearby TDWR site and turning off or not using Dynamic Frequency Selection (DFS). None of the documented interference cases involved home users turning their WiFi router power up to 11 or selecting improper channels.

      I stumbled on this informative report which details the FCC's issues with 5GHz band interference. See page 3-4 for details on the interference problems.

      I learned a lot about frequency sharing from this technical report. It's well worth a read.

    7. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      Speed limiters on cars are easy to defeat and can be a little difficult to implement; plus, there are legitimate (though limited) uses for such things (track use, places with no speed limits, etc). A consumer router with unlocked radio firmware that allows you to broadcast on unlicensed frequencies at high power? Not so much.

      Speeding is also much easier to police.

    8. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, do you know how I know you didn't even read the FCC statement you are commenting on? Because they SPECIFICALLY mention DD-WRT style firmwares, BY NAME.

    9. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Speeding is much easier to make revenue from...

    10. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by jonnythan · · Score: 1

      DD-WRT includes radio firmware, but there's no reason it has to. DD-WRT specifically lets you alter output power and frequency beyond what is allowed by the FCC.

    11. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by jonwil · · Score: 1

      You clearly dont understand cryptography.
      Unless the manufacturers screw up and use a weak algorithm for the signature (or screw up the implementation like Sony did on the PS3) it will be impossible to crack the signature.

    12. Re:FCC's trying to break improving router firmware by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Since less expensive WiFi implementations either use the host processor directly or for loading a binary blob, at some point the FCC's directive will apply to the entire device.

      Even in cases where it would not, I expect the manufacturers to take advantage of it either as an excuse or by designing the entire device so everything is covered.

  12. WSJ? Bastion of free market? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Must have been a guest editorial to provide balance.

    Usually WSJ is all about "get rules out of the way and let the free market determine what is appropriate"

    1. Re:WSJ? Bastion of free market? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't let your preconceptions get in the way of reality.

      Rush Limbaugh has been complaining for years about our corporate overlords control of our politicians - particularly that of the Republican party. I bet that blows your mind, right?

    2. Re:WSJ? Bastion of free market? by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      I don't know the WSJ, but if it is for "true" capitalism rather than what we have now pose as such, the position makes sense: True competition can only exist if you cannot force your customer to buy from you instead of hiring anyone else (i.e. competition) to fix his problem.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  13. TLDR: quit buying Apple products by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I only buy Android phones for me and my family that cost less than $100. If they break (and it has yet to happen), oh well - I'll just buy another one. Ditto tablets (though I've tossed and replaced two of those). Our laptops are also cheapy Toshiba/HP's that cost maybe $300 each.

    All of these have replaceable batteries, and I can generally replace the disk, screen, keyboard and other major parts of the laptops for $60.

    The common thread here? None of these are Apple products.

    1. Re:TLDR: quit buying Apple products by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      iPhone batteries can be had for $10. Since the iphone 4, they are pretty easy to replace too, requiring only a few screws to remove. Since the 5, the screens have been pretty easy to replace too.

    2. Re:TLDR: quit buying Apple products by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since my pricey MacBook Pro can't hold a wifi connection for more than ten minutes after updating to Yosemite, I'm not sure what you mean by "something decent." I'd rather have a trashy old Toshiba that worked properly.

    3. Re:TLDR: quit buying Apple products by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      you chose to buy an Apple product; maybe because you think it is prettier or you like the OS, but it is just that, it is not the only computer a kid can use to do her homework or the only decent hardware you can buy for your family. That is absurd.

    4. Re:TLDR: quit buying Apple products by bobbied · · Score: 2

      I can repair apple products. I've replaced screens, buttons, and batteries in a number of iPhones and tablets. It's usually not any harder than Android based devices of the same type. The issue is obtaining the parts, which is drop dead easy for nearly all Apple products, just look on EBay...Android devices are harder to get parts for, mainly because there are so many variants out there and they sell less of each type as a result, which makes it less cost effective to build replacement parts so less android devices have readily available parts. Apple devices don't have this problem.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    5. Re:TLDR: quit buying Apple products by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And this is why Apple fanbois are seen as hipster douches.....

  14. Nonsense! by idontgno · · Score: 2, Funny

    Ending is better than mending. The more stitches, the less riches.

    Now for my mid-morning soma break.

    --
    Welcome to the Panopticon. Used to be a prison, now it's your home.
  15. Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My friend has a rather common model of refrigerator. It went out four years ago. The repair man was going to charge about $200 to tear it apart, and knowing the model, guessed that the control board was out, which he priced at $200. He didn't have that cash on hand, and I was across the street, so he asked me to look at it before he committed to a $400 purchase.

    The control board was in the back, under a couple of plates (obviously meant for removal). It had a bunch of standard wire connectors to it, but you didn't even need to take it out to see the issue. There was a fuse in it, and the fuse was burnt.

    Now here's the deal, normally a fuse is in a fuse holder, but this was a fuse soldered to the board. I estimated that the repair man just swapped boards, as it seemed very unlikely he desoldered and soldered in a new fuse.

    We took it down to the local electronic parts outlet, and bought a fuse and a fuse holder. We desoldered the fuse and soldered in a fuse holder, then put a new fuse in it. It took a bit more "work" than a simple board replacement, but we justified that it would pay off if (or when) the fuse went out again. The fuse went out again last year.

    It isn't just planned obsolescence. It's a plain F U to the customer. The manufacturer saved an entire ten to twenty cents making that board by avoiding the installation of a fuse holder, at the expense of driving up repair costs; but, in that manufacturer's mind they are probably patting themselves on the back that they are keeping refrigerator prices low.

    The only way I can see this being fixed is legislation. Consumers are just too stupid to buy self-serviceable items these days, and if you want to buy something self-serviceable, nothing is branded as such.

  16. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by karnal · · Score: 1

    The bigger question here is why is the fuse blowing? If the fuse is blowing under normal operation, then it's either improperly sized or the design requirements were misinterpreted (drawing more than originally spec'd out, etc.)

    Granted, you're being safe by putting the exact type fuse back in (rating and what not) but if it were me, I'd either try to figure out what was blowing said fuse - or I'd put one in with a slightly higher rating. Slightly being 10% or so, just enough to give headroom but not enough to burn the house down (i.e. putting a penny in or some such....)

    --
    Karnal
  17. Saw the handwriting on wall in early 1990's by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

    I was studying electronics at the community college in the early 1990's when I came to the conclusion that future electronic devices won't be repairable and being an electronic technician was a dead end job. General electronics, repairing TVs and lasers were still big back then, taking up a whole building and five pages in the schedule catalog. I switched my major and didn't look back. When I came back ten years later to learn computer programming, The electronics program was a former shadow of itself, taking up several classrooms and one page in the schedule catalog. They taught general electronics for laser techs..

    1. Re:Saw the handwriting on wall in early 1990's by oh_my_080980980 · · Score: 2

      Did you bother to survey the appliance repair industry because it's doing quite well. Electronics are no all major appliances today and those appliances need servicing. A lot of people will repair before buying a new one because the new one is not cheap.

    2. Re:Saw the handwriting on wall in early 1990's by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Appliance repair wasn't listed in the course catalog.

    3. Re:Saw the handwriting on wall in early 1990's by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "being an electronic technician was a dead end job. "

      Thanks to degree inflation and university business tactics, the job of a technician is now done by an engineer.

    4. Re:Saw the handwriting on wall in early 1990's by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I read an article several months ago that a law firm filing clerk position that used to require a high school diploma now requires a college degree. Who knew that pushing paperwork was intellectually challenging work?

    5. Re:Saw the handwriting on wall in early 1990's by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Manufacturers of test equipment stopped producing service manuals in about 1990 but did so even for things which were still repairable so I do not think it was in response to changes in technology. I see the current trend of locking things down using DRM and the DMCA as an extension to this.

  18. Bring Radio Shack back by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1

    Bring Radio Shack back so we can buy the parts we need.

    1. Re:Bring Radio Shack back by PPH · · Score: 1

      Radio Shack stopped carrying parts* a few decades ago.

      *Excepting the one cabinet of fuses and light bulbs sitting in the corner.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    2. Re:Bring Radio Shack back by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      digikey.com is much cheaper and has the parts you need, but you have to wait a few days.

    3. Re:Bring Radio Shack back by bobbied · · Score: 1

      You don't need any parts the Shack was selling.... Even if it was the EXACT part number, they sold stuff that was literally crap and you'd be lucky if they worked. I purchased a card with 15 2n222's on it, only ONE in the bunch was marginally within the accepted specifications for that part and the rest where literally junk. I had the same experience with other components, like a whole bunch of 5% resisters which barely fell within 10% of specifications. They literally sold trash for components.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  19. Hostility towards Consumers by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think in general there is hostility towards consumers, and not just with things like consumer electronics.

    Digital media such as music, books, video or films?
    While there is an immense catalog of choice with what we can consume, we are are getting less and less able to have control over their choices, due to how "rights holders" and others corral us into their vision of how to consume and deliver this media.

    --
    We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    1. Re:Hostility towards Consumers by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Because you're supposed to buy. And you are supposed to use what you buy only in the way intended by its maker, so he can sell it to you again in case marketing finds out that you would want to use it in another way, too.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:Hostility towards Consumers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't forget printer ink cartridges ... easy to "repair" (refill), yet the manufacturers continue to resist since they'd lose a major revenue stream.

  20. 'Skilled gadget owners' by kheldan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    For various values of the word 'skilled'. I've been working in electronics for over 30 years. To 'repair' something used to mean 'replace components', but after a certain point it became 'replace an entire circuit board', which will always be a weak substitute so far as I'm concerned. But the real problem is that with the advent of surface-mount components, the door to repairing a circuit board largely became shut and locked to the vast majority of people. When you need (high) magnification and some specialized soldering equipment and supplies just to replace common passive components (YOU try to remove and replace 0402 SMCs with the naked eye!) it puts the job just out of reach of many. Of course most times passive components aren't the problem, and when the integrated circuits are in BGA (ball grid array) packages, and you need a $3000 setup just to remove one, and help from a diety to install a replacement, for 99% of anyone thinking of trying it, it just went entirely out of reach. This is not even touching on the subject of schematics for the device you're trying to repair, which for many/most things you're not getting your hands on for any amount of money, and in some cases you might get threatened with legal action just for trying to get it. Then there's the subject of proprietary software tools that might be necessary, and you're not getting those for any reason from a manufacturer. Even the manufacturers themselves often don't bother repairing anything, they'll just 'recycle' it and send you a new one because the cost in labor alone to repair exceeds what the thing costs.

    Of course I'm going to be reminded that nobody is trying to repair the circuit board in their phone, they just want to replace the battery or cracked screen or whatnot. Manufacturers have never wanted consumers repairing their own devices, so yes they make it as difficult as possible sometimes. It's always been like that. Don't expect that to change, either. You're always going to have to go to 3rd party sources for parts and supplies and information. When we really need to cry 'Foul!' is if they try to make it illegal, though.

    --
    Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    1. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by Opportunist · · Score: 2

      Actually I cry foul if they deliberately make it hard. I don't complain about SMCs, that's something you can hardly influence as a manufacturer. After all, the phone should be small, so the parts have to be. And you can actually hand solder most SMCs with a bit of practice. Not with the naked eye and you do need a bit of equipment, but it is possible and nothing to blame a manufacturer for.

      What I do blame them for is pointlessly gluing parts together, filing down chips so you can't read their part ID or encasing them in a blob of epoxy for no reason other than ensuring you cannot replace it. That's what really irks me.

      Maybe it's time to start a page to shame the worst offenders in that area.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    2. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      What I do blame them for is pointlessly gluing parts together,

      consumers say "I want my battery to last longer" and so they mercilessly reduce the size of the other components to fit in more batteries

      so you prefer consumer electronic companies that don't make the products their consumers want?

    3. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Explain to me how a blob of epoxy on a chip increases battery life or makes the whole mess smaller?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    4. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Explain to me how a blob of epoxy on a chip increases battery life or makes the whole mess smaller?

      gluing the parts together with thermally conductive glue is by far the cheapest and easiest way to ensure heat dissipation and achieve structural integrity

      people want phones that are small and light with long battery life and a low price

      they really don't give a shit about whether or not you can open and fix it

    5. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      If they're trying to make it as difficult as possible, they're really not doing a good job at it. They could easily repair much more difficult.

    6. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by kheldan · · Score: 1

      What I do blame them for is pointlessly gluing parts together, filing down chips so you can't read their part ID or encasing them in a blob of epoxy for no reason other than ensuring you cannot replace it. That's what really irks me.

      In my previous life, when I was repairing arcade games, you'd see that sort of thing all the time, sometimes entire circuit boards full of ICs would have the mfg's numbers filed off them, to 'protect their IP' (to use the modern term). I see no reason to believe that's not at least part of the motivation for doing that sort of thing today.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    7. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by Zarquon · · Score: 1

      It's called Chip On Board and it is slightly cheaper and better performing than using a packaged IC.

      https://learn.sparkfun.com/tut...

      Sometimes you can replace them with packaged equivalents during repair.

      -R C

      --
      "'Tis great confidence in a friend to tell him your faults, greater to tell him his." --Poor Richard's Almanac
    8. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by sjames · · Score: 1

      Wow, how long did it take to drink 50 gallons of cool aid?

      He's talking about those little black blobs of epoxy (not particularly thermally conductive) meant to keep you from even seeing what's under it or being able to replace it.

      As for the rest, if they want thermal conduction, they should apply regular heat sink grease and then put the back on with screws.

    9. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      There is no other good reason to do that. What other purpose would filing away the chip ID serve?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    10. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by kheldan · · Score: 1

      That's my point, really; there is no technoligical reason to do that, you'd do it only to protect your intellectual property. Being the manufacturer they know what IC is what so they don't need part numbers on them, just what refdes it is on the PCB. It's just another barrier against the less skilled/more casual tech pirates copying their product.

      If it's interesting to you at all: back in the day arcade games were more hardware than they were software, and 'knock offs' weren't all that uncommon. If the PCBs were all common logic then it was just a matter of directly copying the PCB and EPROMs/bipolar ROMs and cranking out copies.

      --
      Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
    11. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      Ok, that actually makes sense.

      But I didn't even mean the "black blobs". There are manufacturers that simply cast their contraption into a block of epoxy for no reason. When you etch away the epoxy, you get a PCB with standard components that don't even gain any kind of protection from this treatment. If anything, it makes them more prone to overheating.

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    12. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      That's my point, really; there is no technoligical reason to do that, you'd do it only to protect your intellectual property. Being the manufacturer they know what IC is what so they don't need part numbers on them, just what refdes it is on the PCB. It's just another barrier against the less skilled/more casual tech pirates copying their product. If it's interesting to you at all: back in the day arcade games were more hardware than they were software, and 'knock offs' weren't all that uncommon. If the PCBs were all common logic then it was just a matter of directly copying the PCB and EPROMs/bipolar ROMs and cranking out copies.

      It's probably less to prevent users from fixing their broken gadgets than preventing Chinese factories from making counterfeits and knock-offs.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
    13. Re:'Skilled gadget owners' by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      For various values of the word 'skilled'. I've been working in electronics for over 30 years. To 'repair' something used to mean 'replace components', but after a certain point it became 'replace an entire circuit board', which will always be a weak substitute so far as I'm concerned. But the real problem is that with the advent of surface-mount components, the door to repairing a circuit board largely became shut and locked to the vast majority of people. When you need (high) magnification and some specialized soldering equipment and supplies just to replace common passive components (YOU try to remove and replace 0402 SMCs with the naked eye!) it puts the job just out of reach of many. Of course most times passive components aren't the problem, and when the integrated circuits are in BGA (ball grid array) packages, and you need a $3000 setup just to remove one, and help from a diety to install a replacement, for 99% of anyone thinking of trying it, it just went entirely out of reach. This is not even touching on the subject of schematics for the device you're trying to repair, which for many/most things you're not getting your hands on for any amount of money, and in some cases you might get threatened with legal action just for trying to get it. Then there's the subject of proprietary software tools that might be necessary, and you're not getting those for any reason from a manufacturer. Even the manufacturers themselves often don't bother repairing anything, they'll just 'recycle' it and send you a new one because the cost in labor alone to repair exceeds what the thing costs. Of course I'm going to be reminded that nobody is trying to repair the circuit board in their phone, they just want to replace the battery or cracked screen or whatnot. Manufacturers have never wanted consumers repairing their own devices, so yes they make it as difficult as possible sometimes. It's always been like that. Don't expect that to change, either. You're always going to have to go to 3rd party sources for parts and supplies and information. When we really need to cry 'Foul!' is if they try to make it illegal, though.

      It's also a bit of a boon to the professional repair people. No need to get into deep diagnostics and testing and so on, just swap the entire board out. A friend of mine has an electric oven, and the temp display (just numbers, not a whole graphics screen) has died. The only replacement part is the entire electronics module for a couple of hundred bucks. Foolproof, but not thrifty.

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  21. my 1st gen kindle fire doesn't charge any more by circletimessquare · · Score: 5, Interesting

    it's a well-known issue

    https://www.ifixit.com/Answers...

    amazon said they'd give me $15 off the purchase of a new one because it doesn't charge any more. instead i purchased the $5 repair USB port:

    http://www.amazon.com/Charging...

    looked through some videos

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    and tried it out

    in the first 15 minutes, i succesfully broke a tiny plasticzif connector:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    great, nothing to see here, move along, cross your fingers it will stay with some rubber cement

    then i made a hilariously inept attempt to solder tiny connections of the new USB port with a fat soldering iron and some eye glass repair magnifying glass

    but lo and behold it worked. it charged! ...for half an hour. now it's dead as a door knob

    here's the real issue:

    i don't have the time to do this shit, and the cost of modern electronics makes the cost of new electronics compared to the time investment to attempt a repair means repair is not an option

    go to repair places and the cost of a repair is also prohibitively expensive as compared to the cost of a new item

    therefore: welcome to our throwaway culture

    i tried. i really did

    i just don't have the time or patience anymore, not to join now myself

    sorry

    --
    intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    1. Re:my 1st gen kindle fire doesn't charge any more by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Funny

      I'll fix your SHIFT keys for free.

    2. Re:my 1st gen kindle fire doesn't charge any more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

      I take it you turned his offer down then?

    3. Re:my 1st gen kindle fire doesn't charge any more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your tantrum is 100% projection.

    4. Re:my 1st gen kindle fire doesn't charge any more by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      You've got to admit it was funny.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    5. Re:my 1st gen kindle fire doesn't charge any more by Immerman · · Score: 1

      So then, why didn't you give it to your buddy with a knack for soldering? Buy him a couple six packs of good beer and you both come out ahead. The trick is recognizing the limits of your own competence, and leveraging the strengths of your friends when you aren't up to the task.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
    6. Re:my 1st gen kindle fire doesn't charge any more by circletimessquare · · Score: 0

      i am angry at someone changing the subject, yes

      explain how that is projection

      you do know that psychological projection is a specific kind of behavior, not just an empty bad word like "poopyhead" to call someone, right?

      --
      intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
    7. Re:my 1st gen kindle fire doesn't charge any more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That was one of the exceptionally rare times I agreed with xxxJonBoyxxx.

    8. Re:my 1st gen kindle fire doesn't charge any more by sjames · · Score: 1

      Offering $15 off of a new one to replace a device that failed due to a well known design/manufacturing flaw is just insulting. As for the rest, that was in-part your less than skillful repair and in part their design that assumes no repairs will be done. Had it been designed to be repaired, perhaps you would have been more successful.

    9. Re:my 1st gen kindle fire doesn't charge any more by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's a drug addict, that's just how he uses keyboards now.

  22. What's wrong with this picture? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Human nature may dictate that workers want to work less, make more money, and buy the stuff they need for low prices.
          These three things are contradictory unless the economy is very efficient in how and what it makes.

    Companies want workers to work more, make less money, buy the stuff they need for high prices, and apparently buy the stuff over and over.
          The companies' strategy may make the GDP go up, but it seems to be doing it in a way that is counter productive.

    It seems like some minor adjustments to the ground rules might be a good idea.
          The Company should provide the information necessary for these simple repairs.
              Remember when all consumer electronics came with schematics and parts lists?

    The repair shop that needs to charge $100+ just to look at something has opportunities for efficiency improvements as well.
          This is partly due to human nature above, but also highlights that skill matters.
          One thing the company provides is to permit low-skill workers to make complex things.
          This doesn't work at a repair shop.
          The market rate is $50-$100/hour to get a skilled tech.
          Somehow to make the above information useful, we need more skilled workers.
          In this example, the Internet substituted for the skill.
          This needs to be nurtured. Take down notices preventing this are an issue here.

  23. How about a manual at least? by Maxwell · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Could we start with requiring documentation? We just got a new FTTH Hub from our ISP. No manual. No instructions. Vendor has nothing online and refers to ISP insists who there is no known documentation for the Hub. Sagemcom f@st 5250 for those wondering. So not only is it non repairable it's non-troubleshootable and no way to tell anything about the device.

  24. It depends on the device and user by cyberchondriac · · Score: 2

    There is both a valid point to the article and a flaw.
    "Easily fixable" is in the eye of the beholder, but given the nature that this is a tech blog, I'm not surprised most people assume this is common; lots of people think they can handle something until they get elbows deep in it, and then find themselves out of their depth. Then they're likely to try to button things back up as best they can, and return the item as defective: if it was defective in the first place, they probably just made it several times worse; but if they were trying to hack or mod it, there's no excuse for returning it after they broke it. Companies are not going to settle for eating these costs, and their legal teams are there to prevent this sort of thing. I used to be a bench tech, repairing consumer electronics (chiefly VCRs, but stereos, preamps, cassette decks, etc.. as well) and, outside of head cleanings (which are also tricky on helical scanning head), idler/belt replacements, or minor alignments, the repairs I made were typically outside the capability of the average buyer (and how many people have an oscilloscope and function generator in their house?) I think it would be opening a can of worms to court their tinkering by say, posting schematics publicly on a website. But it also depends on the device and it's complexity.

    On the other hand, some simple things, i.e. lack of access to batteries, is ridiculous. Also, if schematics were made available upon request (an email for example), that would probably nip a lot of the impulsive weekend hackers in the bud while still allowing serious techs access to them.

    --

    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
    1. Re:It depends on the device and user by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      or they can deliberately design products so that you will inevitably destroy them if you attempt to fix them yourself:

      https://www.ifixit.com/blog/2011/01/20/apples-diabolical-plan-to-screw-your-iphone/

    2. Re:It depends on the device and user by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      I used to be a bench tech, repairing consumer electronics (chiefly VCRs, but stereos, preamps, cassette decks, etc.. as well) and, outside of head cleanings (which are also tricky on helical scanning head), idler/belt replacements, or minor alignments, the repairs I made were typically outside the capability of the average buyer (and how many people have an oscilloscope and function generator in their house?)

      I used to be a service writer for a repair service, and I have to agree with you - the degree of DIY repairs in the past isn't nearly what the golden rosy past crowd here on /. seems to think. The /. demographic are, in the main, tinkerers and it simply doesn't occur to them that most people aren't.
       

      Also, if schematics were made available upon request (an email for example), that would probably nip a lot of the impulsive weekend hackers in the bud while still allowing serious techs access to them.

      That's the real problem with planned obsolescence and the unavailability of information and parts - the death of the authorized service center and the resulting loss of jobs. This isn't just consumer electronics, it's a broad base of consumer goods - everything from cars to appliances.

    3. Re:It depends on the device and user by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 1

      Part of it is the lower cost of stuff vs the higher cost of labor.

      Back in the early 80s, my family got a VCR, back when they cost a thousand dollars. It was one of the old ones that popped up from the top, then you pushed it down, it was huge.

      If it broke, it was worth taking to the local repair shop, where they charged you 3 hours of labor, or perhaps $60, to fix it.

      Last week I ordered a new Blu-Ray player for my office, it was less than $50 on Amazon. If it breaks, it goes in the trash and I buy another one. It isn't worth even 1 hour of a technicians time to look at today.

      Things worth repairing, still are repaired. Vehciles for example, there are plenty of independent repair shops around for those, due to the cost of vehicles and the cost of repairs.

    4. Re:It depends on the device and user by sjames · · Score: 1

      There's no reason they couldn't just make it tamper evident but repairable. Post the schematics and a note that attempted repairs or modifications will void the warranty.

  25. Consumers made this decision ... by MacTO · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Consumers helped to make this decision a long time ago when they decided that it was better to replace than to repair. Yes, there were external factors. This includes things like the cost of getting someone to make repairs and the faster turn around of buying a replacement. On the other hand, their inability to conduct the most basic repairs on their own (e.g. fixing a frayed cable or swapping a replaceable component) went a long way in convincing manufacturers that planned obsolescence can be a viable business model. The prioritization of compact and more integrated devices over serviceability is also a huge factor. Computers are an excellent example of that. Contrast an early 80's computer, where nearly everything was in a socket or soldered through-hole, to a modern phone where there is barely enough space for a plug and socket for the battery.

    We also can't claim that consumers didn't see this coming. Again to the computer example: there was a shift from the early 80's computers to modular desktops of the late 80's and early 90's (where the modules were more or less standardized), to the laptops of the late 90's and early 2000's (where the modules were less standard), to the present day. Ah, the present day: a time when a replaceable battery or an SD card for memory expansion (not so much to repair as to extend the service life of a product) is considered an anti-feature by some.

    Manufacturers may have implemented these decisions, but it was the consumer who made the decision.

    1. Re:Consumers made this decision ... by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

      Consumers helped to make this decision a long time ago

      consumers purchase what is shoved in front of them. let's look at cars. people in the 1960s were happy to buy unsafe, unreliable cars that got terrible gas mileage. they didn't know any better and they didn't care. now the government comes along and tells the car makers that they must improve gas mileage and they must improve safety. now suddenly safety and gas mileage are important to consumers! why? because they were programmed to like safety and gas mileage

    2. Re:Consumers made this decision ... by Sir_Eptishous · · Score: 1

      now the government comes along and tells the car makers that they must improve gas mileage and they must improve safety. now suddenly safety and gas mileage are important to consumers! why? because they were programmed to like safety and gas mileage

      Wrong.
      You need to read up on what happened in 1973-74 with OPEC. Go ahead, it won't hurt.

      --
      We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
    3. Re:Consumers made this decision ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      It's not a matter of consumer interest so much as having the choice available.

    4. Re:Consumers made this decision ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      If there's consumer interest, there will be a choice. The reason stuff is less repairable now is that people find that less important than they did.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    5. Re:Consumers made this decision ... by sjames · · Score: 1

      I'd sure like to see evidence for that, because as someone who actually does care about that, I find practically zero information available on the subject and practically no options for repairable anything on offer. In most cases where I must try to repair something anyway, I find that changes that would have made it MUCH easier honestly wouldn't have even added 1% to the actual cost of manufacturing.

    6. Re:Consumers made this decision ... by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Statistically, I doubt you exist. If a sufficiently large number of people were concerned with repairability, some manufacturers would make some models that were easier to repair, and would advertise that fact. Maybe not with gaming consoles, but certainly with Android phones and tablets.

      We used to have stuff that was easy to repair, made out of discrete components. Over time, this has morphed into stuff that's very difficult to repair. At any time, if a significant number of customers actually cared about what you care about, they would have bought more of the repairable stuff, and it would have been clear that there's a market.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  26. Spectrum and interference by xtal · · Score: 4, Informative

    Blame people using frequencies and EIRP they're not supposed to and interference generated as a result. That's the downside to the software defined radio approach; the software needs to be locked to maintain compliance with FCC regulations.

    Has nothing to do with networking or repair.

    You can always get a router that takes a FCC-approved wireless card and route to your heart's content.

    --
    ..don't panic
    1. Re:Spectrum and interference by Microlith · · Score: 1

      That's the downside to the software defined radio approach

      None of these routers are doing SDR. The concern comes from power levels the routers use, and that only in the 5GHz band.

      You can always get a router that takes a FCC-approved wireless card and route to your heart's content.

      Many wireless cards control power emissions in the same way the cheap wifi routers do, via a simple register. Should we lock down every PC to ensure no one ever drives power levels above the rated maximum?

    2. Re:Spectrum and interference by xtal · · Score: 1

      Once it becomes so simple to mess with people who don't understand start doing it, then it becomes a problem. I don't necessarily agree on the tactic, and it's a moving target, but more aggressive management of spectrum from the FCC is inevitable.

      Not many of them are doing real SDR now. Many future ones will implement SDR approaches or widely configurable frequency ranges (e.g. Ubiquity gear). Some of them will support lots of different frequencies. Most use crappy filters. That's the problem.

      It'll be awhile before all the 54G routers break.

      I run a virtualized pfsense instance and stuck my wireless off that. Added benefit of IDS functionalities.

      More regulation is going to happen. GNU radio and other approaches might provide open design alternatives.

      --
      ..don't panic
    3. Re:Spectrum and interference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      they're not supposed to

      Those are public airwaves. It's the FCC that gained its right to bestow permissions upon them by a slight of hand who should be blamed for this mess

  27. Um, you have the right by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    you just don't have the tools or the parts. Notwithstanding the game-changning, history-making post-scarcity digital miracle that is 3D printing (uh huh), the skills and tools needed to repair things these days are beyond the reach of most people. I'm not trying to be elitist here, in the 1960s a television set was made of human-scale parts that anyone could see and handle. Corner drugstores sold parts.

    These days if your phone stops working, it is mostly a single piece of plastic with no obvious parts the average person can discern.

  28. modular computing by lkcl · · Score: 1

    interesting timing. i've been working on designing modular computer products for the past five years, and just wrote up a white paper yesterday on exactly this topic
    http://rhombus-tech.net/whitep...

    the fairphone 2 is designed as "modular" - it's not exactly "modular", it's (very unusually, for a smartphone) designed to be repairable. you have to have a screwdriver, but that's a lot better than a hermetically-sealed unit that needs a saw or scalpel followed by epoxy resin to undo the damage caused by getting into the device.

    also... what happened to the "bloom laptop"? i know it was 5 years ago now, but the whole reason why they started the project was because the entire class of students and two professors were absolutely astounded that it took *three hours* to disassemble a standard laptop... into over 140 constituent parts.

  29. just wait for auto drive cars be ready to buy a ne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    just wait for auto drive cars be ready to buy a new car each 3-5 years when the software updates stop and be ready to pay dearer prices for oil changes, tiers, etc.

  30. Re:just wait for auto drive cars be ready to buy a by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

    be ready to pay dearer prices for oil changes, tiers, etc.

    If I only need to get my electric car (no oil!) serviced once every 100,000 miles then I am happy to pay more than I am paying now for 25,000 mile services.

  31. No, that's a bad example by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I don't think that's really a good example at all, because you're just talking about products' quality, and you actually admitted that you could still find a few manufacturers who are still willing to take your money in excahnge for a decent-quality product. And whatever the cause for this battery trend, I guarantee you it doesn't involve someone in the government threatening to use force against someone who is trying to design a computer with a removable battery. It's not a rights issue. You're just pissed that there's a lot of garbage on the market. (Nothing wrong with being pissed, BTW. I'm not saying you don't have good reason.)

    Our RIGHT to repair things is truly being violated, in the cases where DMCA or patents makes it illegal for you do fix things, or illegal for people to help you fix it or document how or make/sell tools that make the work easier. This is where the government has broken from "let the market sort it out" impartiality and taken sides against The People. That is the thing that started to spring up in the 1990s, and totally unlike the simple planned obsolescence problems (like your battery) that even your great grandfather would have known how to deal with ("don't buy shit," he would say). When the law is fucked, though, all your great grandfather would know to say about that, would be "get a rope," and that's the kind of incivility that I hope we're trying to avoid.

    By all means, keep buying decent hardware which lets you change the battery! But we have far bigger, newer and more threatening fish to fry. 1) DMCA's anti-circumvention prohibitions needs to go, ASAP, in its entirety. That thing has no redeeming virtues, and has done absolutely nothing but harm. 2) Something needs to be done about patents being used to prevent interoperability or maintenance (but I still don't know WTF that would be, or how to do it).

  32. FTC Does Nothing by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    I don't know how in good conscious the Federal Trade Commission can accept our money.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
  33. This is incorrect. by tlambert · · Score: 2

    The FCC is currently trying to end 3rd-party wifi router firmware (think Tomato, DD-WRT, OpenWRT, etc.), by requiring manufacturers to build devices that only accept firmware updates signed with the manufacturer's keys.

    This is incorrect.

    What the FCC is wanting to require is that the SDR chips in these devices only accept radio firmware loads that are signed.

    This is because they license the radios, and the radios are licensed as a combination of hardware and software, Loading different firmware into the radio part makes it an unlicensed radio, and permits it to receive signals in prohibited ranges, as well as transmit signals to interfere with the allowed signals in those prohibited ranges, or in bands which require a license for you to transmit.

    The FCC does not give a flying crap about the *router* firmware... "(think Tomato, DD-WRT, OpenWRT, etc.)", what they care about is the radio, in the same way they care about the baseband firmware in mobile phones.

    So the only thing the FCC wants is to control the air waves (which is what they, as an organization, were created to do).

    Several router vendors would prefer you not replace their firmware, and cable companies which are now deploying WiFi hot spots in their service areas using your house and the router they sold you in order to do it, are objecting to you loading your own firmware, since it means they can't offer paid hot spot service out of your house because you happen to have a router that does WiFi from them.

    But that's not the FCC, that's the people who want to use *your* equipment in *your* house in order to further *their* business model at the expense of *your* total available bandwidth (particularly, upstream bandwidth).

    1. Re:This is incorrect. by Agripa · · Score: 1

      What the FCC is wanting to require is that the SDR chips in these devices only accept radio firmware loads that are signed. ...

      The FCC does not give a flying crap about the *router* firmware... "(think Tomato, DD-WRT, OpenWRT, etc.)", what they care about is the radio, in the same way they care about the baseband firmware in mobile phones.

      And when the same processor is used to do both in less expensive implementations, the result will be the same. Or the FCC could decide that since the transceiver firmware is loaded as a binary blob, this directive applies to the main processor as well.

  34. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ditto on that story but my was my oven, The landlord got a quote for a repair that was, no lie, $20 less then the cost of replacement. I was able to order the new control board for about $60 and install it in 10 minutes. Needless to say my landlord loves me.

  35. Consumers are demanding throwaway junk by ErichTheRed · · Score: 1

    When the original Surface Pro came out, iFixit did a teardown and declared it "extremely difficult" to repair. Basically, most surfaces in the case were attached by a huge layer of epoxy, making it nearly impossible to replace screens, batteries, etc.

    I think this is mainly driven by consumer demand. Consumers want cheap, small, light portable devices that have impossibly long battery lives. They also will happily pay Apple every single time a new model comes out and just throw away the old one. A manufacturer isn't going to use a screw to secure a component if glue will work, and the consumer has no expectation of replacing the component.

    That said, for things that can be fixed, manufacturers do need to make service manuals available at a reasonable cost. I don't expect free, but I also don't want to hunt everywhere for it and be forced to pay an arm and a leg. Perfect example from my life -- our washer's drain pump died. I was able to find a replacement online pretty easily. However, without a YouTube video explaining how to get everything apart, it would have been extremely difficult to just figure it out. It wasn't exactly intuitive that the entire front of the washer had to come off in order to access a pump that looked like it was inside its own little cabinet. I'm sure the procedure is well documented in the service manual. In today's throwaway society, I'll bet there are a lot of people that would toss the washer and spend another $1000 for a new one simply because they're used to non-repairable gadgets. Why do that when the thing is going on 7 years' trouble free operation in a household that has to do laundry basically every day?

    1. Re:Consumers are demanding throwaway junk by sjames · · Score: 1

      What consumer, faced with a choice between a surface pro with screws and another with epoxy said give me the epoxy?

    2. Re:Consumers are demanding throwaway junk by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Most of them. They're not concerned with repairing the things, and screws have their disadvantages.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    3. Re:Consumers are demanding throwaway junk by sjames · · Score: 1

      No, name one! You can't because the Surface Pro was never offered in repairable form.

    4. Re:Consumers are demanding throwaway junk by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Screws take more space than epoxy, don't provide as continuous a seal, and are probably more expensive to put together. They aren't big disadvantages, but if you don't care about repairability, and very few potential customers do, they don't have to be big.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    5. Re:Consumers are demanding throwaway junk by sjames · · Score: 1

      You're just repeating yourself. SHOW me (or at least relate a good actual example) where customers, presented with the choice and all the rest was the same, chose irreparable over reparable.

      Also, it will be useful to contrast between people who actually don't care and those who just don't know how to tell the difference. Certainly I've never seen it bullet pointed on the box so people will be able to make an informed decision. I know more than a few people have been surprised to learn that their expensive phone is practically irreparable to the point that even the battery can't be swapped out.

      As for cost, if the makers of cheap blister pack calculators can afford to use screws, they are affordable in a $600 phone.

    6. Re:Consumers are demanding throwaway junk by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Why do you assume that repairability is a feature that can be added to a design without any compromises in anything else? Your "and all the rest was the same" assumes that. There are plenty of features that people will say they want if they can be magically added into the design.

      Nobody ever said screws were too expensive for a $600 phone. That's stupid. The claim is that it's possible to make a phone with increased capabilities in some areas if epoxy rather than screws were used. The cost advantage I mentioned is trivial, but it probably exists.

      If you haven't seen a bullet point on the box, that strongly suggests that it wouldn't sell significantly more phones. If it increased sales, somebody would find that packaging like that sold more phones. The Android phone business, in particular, is cutthroat.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    7. Re:Consumers are demanding throwaway junk by sjames · · Score: 1

      What feature would screws eliminate? I canb see it might make the device slightly larger, but given how phablets are selling, apparently that's not a problem.

    8. Re:Consumers are demanding throwaway junk by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      They can also make the device less visually attractive, which many people value above the ability to take the thing apart. You seem to keep looking for some sort of major reason why someone would take the harder to repair device, but the fact is that approximately nobody seems to care, so it takes only a minor one.

      I'm not criticizing your ideas about phones, but in fact if lots of people shared your preferences we'd be able to notice it.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    9. Re:Consumers are demanding throwaway junk by sjames · · Score: 1

      Not necessarily, because your market argument is half a bubble off. Due to poor repairability, the epoxy sealed phone may sell 'better' because of people buying a replacement rather than repairing. That can easily make a minority who will tolerate an expensive disposable to be hip to look like a much larger market share. Meanwhile, the others may grudgingly buy the less repairable product because they need a phone and there really isn't a more repairable alternative (since sales figures 'showed' that the non-repairable phone sells better due to replacements).

      Meanwhile, there's the consumers who just assume there must be some magic way a repair person can open the phone and seal it up again, kind of like a jeweler does for pricey watches when they need a battery.

      The iPhone 4s is an example for you to ponder. It CAN be opened and the battery can be replaced. BUT, Apple used the 'pentalobe' screws where a common phillips or even torx could have been used. Doesn't that suggest that the point was to keep people from repairing their phone rather than because screws would show or add bulk?

  36. nobody cares by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

    nobody cares about fixing cheap electronic gear

    you can argue about whether or not this is right, but statistically speaking, nobody cares

  37. Apple Pay + bendgate by tepples · · Score: 1

    Honestly, why do you need your phone to be thinner than that (and probably more likely to bend)? Are you planning to use it as a credit card?

    You mean like the millions of people who accepted bendgate on new iPhones in order to be able to use Apple Pay?

    1. Re:Apple Pay + bendgate by bledri · · Score: 1

      Honestly, why do you need your phone to be thinner than that (and probably more likely to bend)? Are you planning to use it as a credit card?

      You mean like the millions of people who accepted bendgate on new iPhones in order to be able to use Apple Pay?

      They accepted bendgate because it's over blown and doesn't effect millions of people. Just haters and morons that think sitting on a phone is a good idea.

      --
      Some privacy policy Slashdot.
    2. Re:Apple Pay + bendgate by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Those who did that are the real idiots. What does Apple pay give you that Google Pay didn't? Oh, it gave you an Apple phone...I'm sorry for you.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  38. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by Immerman · · Score: 1

    Noisy power, old motor getting too hot, etc. Lots of transients can blow a fuse, especially as components get older and start drifting out of spec. And there's probably no cost-effective way you're going to isolate that capacitor or resistor that's now at +20% from labeled value rather than the just-within-spec +9% it shipped at. At least not unless it dies completely and lets the magic smoke out.

    And personally I'd stick with the same rating of fuse unless it was *really* hard to get to. The fact that the fuse is blowing means there's at least a minor problem somewhere in the device, possibly just waiting for a large enough surge of current to become a major problem. Now if you're talking about replacing , say, a 50A fuse with a 52A fuse I'd agree with you - just stretch the headroom a bit. But fuses tend to come in larger increments than that, and going to a 60A or 70A fuse offers enough headroom to allow some serious component failures, including lots components that still have nothing to do with the real problem. And then your problem starts becoming a lot more expensive to fix than replacing a fuse every year or two.

    Now, what I *would* consider doing is cleaning and oiling the motors, or at least checking if they can spin freely. They're probably the culprits after all - they suck a lot of power, and as the factory lubrication gums up over time they start having to work a lot harder. Just remember that 3-in-1 oil is NOT your friend for machine maintenance - it's not designed for long-term operation and gums up rapidly. You want machine oil - sewing machine oil is great for smaller appliances, and a light automotive oil should do okay for most larger ones.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  39. Fox and News Corp by tepples · · Score: 1

    This is a newspaper -- bought and wholly owned by Rupert Murdoch and beholden to so much baggage of the gloomy old party-- advocating for at best copyright reform

    Fox spun off Dow Jones and the rest of News Corp back in 2013. Or are Fox and News Corp still as joined at the hip as CBS and Viacom?

    1. Re:Fox and News Corp by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Rupert Murdoch is chairman of the News Corp board so he is still very much in control of his newspaper empire (WSJ included)

  40. Respects Your Freedom by tepples · · Score: 1

    Perhaps we could start a new trend to counteract the decline, something like a "Certified Repair Friendly" logo that could be put on appliances

    Would it be analogous to the FSF's Respects Your Freedom certification?

    1. Re:Respects Your Freedom by Immerman · · Score: 1

      Quite so. After a fashion at least.

      --
      --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  41. A free market in repair services by tepples · · Score: 2

    As I understand it, this article is about reducing Imaginary Property barriers that interfere with a free market in repair services.

  42. And WEEE by tepples · · Score: 1

    I only buy Android phones for me and my family that cost less than $100. If they break (and it has yet to happen), oh well - I'll just buy another one.

    Does this $100 include the cost of e-waste disposal?

  43. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by FranTaylor · · Score: 1

    the most energy efficient strategy for an old appliance is to scrap it and replace it with a new model that is much more efficient

    especially if you take your own time into account, is it worth blowing off a weekend with the family so you can save a few bucks on an old crappy washing machine?

  44. Re: (un-)removable batteries by gnupun · · Score: 1

    How can be you be tracked if the phone is powered off? There's hardly any power consumption so what electronics and code is running in power-off state.

  45. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by bobbied · · Score: 1

    Putting a higher rated fuse into a device is usually not a good idea. Not to mention that finding a 5.5 amp fuse for that 5 amp one is not going to happen.

    For devices that regularly blow their fuse, I've occasionally bypassed the fuse under test conditions to find out what's failing by looking for the smoke, but I'd caution you that one needs to first evaluate the circuits and do some diagnostic work to eliminate as many catastrophic failure modes as you can before you take the chance of burning something up (and your house down). Never, NEVER just put in a fuse that is above what is called for, unless you KNOW what you are doing and don't intend to leave it that way.

    But I also work on old tube type Ham Radio gear.... Where an improper fuse can be a one way ticket to a blown power transformer and the destruction of circuit cards and parts which are not readily available for purchase or easily replaced. I can tell you that rewinding a power transformer, while possible, is tedious and time consuming and sometimes finding a suitable coupling capacitor with a high enough voltage rating is every expensive.

    --
    "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
  46. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Um, that "FU fuse" is there for safety. Have fun when your buddy who can't fork out 400$ for a fridge comes home to a smoking crater where his house once stood.

  47. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by Immerman · · Score: 1

    Yes, but you're making a *lot* of assumptions there.

    Efficiency isn't always terribly relevant - you probably don't care much about the efficiency of a sewing machine for example, probably not even a vacuum cleaner. Not unless they're *really* inefficient. Moreover even for refrigerators you pretty much need to go back 10-15 years to pre-energy-star models find one that's not worth repairing, unless it was junk to begin with. Once people started actually caring about efficiency they cut away the waste pretty quickly. Even if you're a hard-core energy-efficiency fan, you still need to consider the lifetime amortzed energy cost of building the new refrigerator in the first place.

    Old != crappy. An old, quality appliance will very likely outperform most newer models. This can become even more dramatic as the age of the appliance increases, as the only appliances to survive this long are the ones that are unusually dependable.

    Time is most definitely valuable - but money costs you time. (or as my brother likes to say: Money is liquid time) For a very large portion of the US population $400 represents a week or two of their paycheck. If you're spending money equivalent to a week or two of your life to avoid spending a weekend, you might want to take a look at your financial decision-making process.

    Finally, and most importantly, there's absolutely no reason that most repairs should take anything like a weekend. IF appliances were designed for easy maintenance, then all but the most complicated repairs would take less than an hour or two.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  48. ^This! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had a monitor crap out. The advice I got online and much searching - it was most likely the power supply.

    Some of the capacitors looked gummy and black so I replaced them.
    See, those capacitors were soldered in tight with a bunch of SMT components and their minuscule connections. I don't even know if the caps were even the problem....

    With my $25 Weller, I totally screwed up everything near the caps.

    A new power supply was 60% of the cost of a new monitor with a higher resolution.

    Bought a new monitor that is still going strong.

    But electronics are so cheaply made, they are not worth fixing; let alone spending several hundred dollars on tools and rework stations.

    I am just buying less - or trying to - I mad at myself for letting my wife talk me into wasting money on this iPad. It is NOT worth the money!

  49. Tech Support, How I Hate Thee... by LaurenCates · · Score: 1

    So last week, probably due to a software update on my phone, my smartwatch (suck it, haters!) didn't automatically reconnect with my phone after coming back into range. I had to manually re-connect every time.

    Note that I've had the damn thing for close to a year and this has not been a problem at all.

    I looked all over the internet to see if this was a common problem, nada. I'm experienced enough to think that this is the sort of thing that can be fixed with a reboot or an update that I didn't quite get yet. So I write the manufacturer to ask for advice.

    They tell me to send it in for service.

    I'll repeat myself.

    They were telling me so send my gadgets in for service for a bad Bluetooth connection.

    I basically wrote them back telling them that the could go fuck themselves. I didn't use those words, I was polite, though not nearly as Tolkien was when he told the Nazis to fuck off.

    And what do you know? One update later and boom, fixed.

    So, fuck you, tech companies. I'm making it my life's mission to make sure everyone I know doesn't get fucked over the way you tried to do me. Point being: companies are out to make things harder to repair, or obfuscating the need for repair to make you dependent on them to make your stuff work right.

    And by the way, you take away my right to replacing parts of my own gear of my own volition, and you'll see me gritting my teeth over cheap phones until the day I die, which at the rate at which my blood pressure rises every time I have to deal with your tech support probably won't be long anyhow.

    (FWIW, this is not the first time I've ever told a company that I shouldn't have to send something in for service when an update should do the trick.)

    --
    Some people don't believe in fairies. I don't believe in The Patriarchy.
  50. First known example? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I had an old 1966 Dodge Dart that ran regularly through voltage regulators. Replacing them was fairly cheap, however.

    Then I got an old 1972 Chrysler Newport. The voltage regulator went out. It turned out the thing was permanently attached to the alternator. You had to replace both (at a much higher price) if either one of them crapped out.

    Not exactly programmed death by software, but the same mindset. Any earlier examples?

  51. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    You're slow, aren't you?

    The fuse isn't the FU, it's the lack of a fuse holder, and the fuse being soldered in.

  52. You always have the right... by MakersDirector · · Score: 0

    This is weird.

    Look, speaking on behalf of any corporation. Sometimes, YES, there's absolutely planned obsolescence in products. But truth be told, with so many consumer choices out there, this doesn't happen to the frequency it used to.

    In the case of this man's $12 fix.

    What I crack up at nowadays is how lazy people are at research lately.

    "Why didn't Samsung tell me about the $12 fix" that's their job and responsibility

    Is it possible that they didn't know?

    Like Kim Davis not granting marriage certificates in Kentucky, some assert that if she wasn't going to hand out certificates - then it was "her responsibility to tell those seeking marriage certificates where to go to get them if she wasn't going to do it herself"

    Samsung not having immediate information on how to resolve a problem they created by their presence. Kim Davis not being able to resolve other's problems problem she created by her choice.

    I'm proud of this man for learning how to research his own answer.

    Even if he's angry he had to do it.

  53. T-Fal Actifry by Frederic54 · · Score: 1

    My $300 "Family Actifry" was not working anymore, I had to disassemble it, about easy for a tinkerer, but damn to change the 15A fuse you have to disassemble everything because it is on the LCD control panel!
    I routed a fuse holder on the side so if it happens again it will take a few seconds to change :) Problem looked like a cold solder that heated too much...

    --
    "Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
  54. Not yet, anyway by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

    Repairing stuff isn't as complicated as they want you to think.

    I wonder how far off we are, though.

  55. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by rickb928 · · Score: 1

    Common causes of fuses blowing regularly but infrequently are:

    - Under rated. Sometimes a 1.2A fuse will protect a circuit just fine, while the original 1.0A fuse has a measurably short life. This is caused by various issues, such as current running too close to the rating or surges. Voltage rating is unlikely to be the fault here, most mini or glass fuses are 250V.

    - Heat. Fuses will sag and fail under high heat. In a refrigerator, everything but the interior will want to be hot. Bad air circulation will cause this.

    - Poor quality OEM fuses. Highly unlikely, but possible.

    Putting in any sort of a holder is a good move, simplifies replacement, and if the problem is elsewhere, troubleshooting is greatly simplified.

    When I worked on various office machines, I had a huge selection of fuses on hand, with some oddball values such as 0.8A, 1.13A, weird stuff. Some were very specific to prevent cascading failures and total destruction, but some I think were just engineers splitting hairs. Especially Sony.

    --
    deleting the extra space after periods so i can stay relevant, yeah.
  56. Two Words: Planned Obsolescence by Irate+Engineer · · Score: 1

    This is all nice in theory, but note that the original manufacturer gains nothing by enabling you to repair their wares. They WANT their crap to fail about 30 seconds after the warrantee expires, and they want you helpless to fix it at that point. The want you to buy their newest shiny as a replacement.

    I am probably plagarizing but to anybody thinks that they have rights to repair their shiny:

    You are all cows. Cows say moo. MOOOOOOOOOO! MOOOOOOOOOO! Moo cows MOOOOOOO! Moo say the cows. YOU COWS!

    --

    Left MS Windows for Linux Mint and never looked back!

    Vote for Bernie in 2016!

  57. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Dude, that's part of the safety feature. *I*'m slow? You're slower than a chunk of neutronium in a black hole's time-dilated event horizon...

    Oh, "grishnakh", the resident Space drooler. Why am I not surprised you have a hard time grasping a fuse?

  58. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    Holy shit, you're a fucking moron. Soldering a fuse in is NOT a safety feature, it's a cost-savings tactic. If you want safety, you put a fucking fuse holder in, and an easily-replaceable standard fuse in the holder.

    Holy shit, this site is full of fucking morons these days.

  59. My son makes computers from scratch by WillAffleckUW · · Score: 1

    And I used to do the same.

    It's just a device.

    In the old days, you used to be able to get the manuals for free at the public library, or browse through them at most dealers.

    --
    -- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
  60. Anyone here hear of The Sherman Antitrust Laws"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    http://www.acc.com/chapters/ncr/upload/Antitrust-Compliance-Training-Program-5-18-and-6-2-2015-Materials.pdf.

    This the the paperwork. National Cash Register tried to withhold technical documents and repair parts to independent repair companies and lost. Now think about today and let us think about say Apple.

  61. Re:Lowest upfront price leads to higher repair / c by toddestan · · Score: 1

    Well, another thing to consider is that around here, if you turn in a older, working fridge, the power company will give you $50 and haul it away for you. They define "working" as good enough to make ice, by the way. Might be enough to consider trying to rig it up to run again even if you decide to replace it.

    My fridge would qualify (it's 20 years old) for the rebate, so I put a Kill-a-watt on my fridge to see how much power it draws compared to a new fridge, to see if it might be worth it. I found comparing its actual power usage to the claimed power usage on a new fridge, I would save about $40 a year. Now, $40 a year is still $40, but even with the $50 rebate I would be talking about something like a 10 year payback should I replace it with something equivalent. Considering that the prevailing opinion is that appliances all went to crap sometime in the late 90's/early 2000's, and the fridge I have is a GE model that's considered pretty robust, I figure I'm better off just keeping the fridge I have.

  62. same with cars by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    Reminds me of what a friend of mine said about why it's so much easier to fix the older car he owns than something newer; "It's just a bunch of car parts put together".

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.