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The Install Size of Every PS4 and Xbox One Game

Posted by timothy on from the expands-to-fill-the-space-allotted dept.

SlappingOysters writes: One of the biggest challenges for gamers during this generation of consoles is ensuring you have enough hard drive space to hold the latest blockbuster. Given that every game needs to be installed in order to be played, and games often weigh in at over 40GB, the 500GB of storage that comes as standard doesn't stretch far. Finder.com has provided a handy resource, listing the install sizes for every PlayStation 4 game (460 and counting) and every Xbox One game (290 and counting). The list is searchable, and can be ordered.

82 of 106 comments (clear)

  1. An idea. by LiENUS · · Score: 5, Funny

    Why don't games just come on special SSDs? They could have two chips, one containing original game data and that chip is set read only after production, the other larger and read/write one contains updates and save data and then unionfs the two together so writes automagically go to the read/write larger one. Then you could just insert the SSD in a special cartridge so its easy to insert into and remove from the console!

    1. Re:An idea. by FlexPlexico · · Score: 1, Funny

      What, you mean apart from making games prices balloon from hilariously overpriced to ridiculously unattainable?

    2. Re:An idea. by FlexPlexico · · Score: 1

      Yeah, this is very much reinventing the game cartridge, and the only company that I can see pulling it off today would probably be Nintendo.
      Wrap it up in a nice amiibo package, and the damn things will be flying off the shelves!

    3. Re:An idea. by tepples · · Score: 2

      Look at the install size of some of these games. A cartridge with two 32 GB flash chips would probably still be a lot more expensive to manufacture than a BD-ROM. Or what has changed in the cost of flash memory lately?

    4. Re:An idea. by tepples · · Score: 1

      Because downloading a game costs the producer, distributor and seller close to $0 per copy.

      Except that the producer may have to eat a deep discount in order to sell its product to customers who happen to live in places where Internet costs $5 per GB or more, such as places served only by cellular data, satellite, or Iowa DSL. Ability to run offline has traditionally been an advantage of disc- and cartridge-based consoles over the GOG and Steam stores in rural areas and utility-hostile inner Seattle.

    5. Re:An idea. by Chris+Mattern · · Score: 1

      http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmw...

    6. Re: An idea. by Threni · · Score: 1

      I paid £40 for a 120gig ssd recently. I imagine it's a little cheaper if you buy a million, especially if you only need 40odd gig.

    7. Re:An idea. by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Then you could just insert the SSD in a special cartridge so its easy to insert into and remove from the console!

      LOL ... but ... but ... no cloud?

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
    8. Re:An idea. by ericloewe · · Score: 1

      That worked magnificently for the N64 and its extremely fast (compared to CDs) ROM cartridges that (usually) contained battery-backed SRAM or EEPROM for saves, against the PS1's extremely slow CDs that could carry a lot more data and were cheap enough that you could make larger games by sticking them on relatively-arbitrary amounts of CDs.

    9. Re:An idea. by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      we had that 20 years ago, good riddance

    10. Re:An idea. by unrtst · · Score: 2

      I think the GP was just a joke, but comparing a cartridge with two 32gb flash chips on it to a BD-ROM is crazy. You can't update a BD-ROM.

    11. Re:An idea. by tepples · · Score: 1

      A single 32 GB OTP (one-time programmable) chip is still far more expensive than a BD-ROM, as I understand it.

    12. Re:An idea. by ravyne · · Score: 1

      Just cost prohibitive. For downloadable titles, the cost to pump bits to the end user is pennies per install, even for 50GB+ titles. Producing a BD-ROM, packaging, and all the physical manufacturing costs are more, but still on the order of maybe a dollar or so -- in fact, the marketting spend (which is what retailers rely most heavily on when deciding whether/how much of their valuable shelf-space to allocate for a title) surely dwarfs the cost of producing the tangible good.

      Technologically, sure, we could ship games on the same type of flash technology used in SSDs. Heck, we could even put the SSD controller inside the machines, and make it configurable such that each game could choose the number of flash chips (channels, which is part of how SSDs attain the speeds they do), and capacities to meet their needs. But even if your performance/capacity needs are small (say, small games that don't stream content in) you're talking several dollars just for flash, maybe another dollar for circuitboad/shell/packaging, and because you're now physical-only, lots of marketting spend to gain a small amount of time on a small amount of shelf-space -- oh, and you've also just raised the pricing floor beneath which you can't profitably sell.

      Selling new games at retail is already a thin-margin endeavor (a retail outlet makes perhaps a couple bucks per unit) -- that's why Gamestop pushes you to buy used copies of even the newest games: their profit margin on those is much bigger, even at 5-10 dollars savings for the consumer. Big retailers like Walmart only really sell them as a sort of attraction, in the same way that gas stations sell milk -- when you need milk, if you can get it at a convenience store, you might also make some other higher-margin purchases. In both cases, that's why the milk and the games are always in the back of the store.

      There's just no room to change the production cost of the tangible good from pennies to dollars. Would the market adapt to a higher price? sure, mostly. But from the perspective of the publishers and studios, all they'll have succeeded at doing is convincing their consumers to pay more for something they see non of the profit from, and now you have less money to spend on the next game, which they would see some profit from.

    13. Re:An idea. by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      hilariously overpriced

      $20 for MANY MANY MANY hours of entertainment (compared to $10+ for ~2 hours with a movie), seems like a heck of a deal, to me.

      (Yes, I wait a while to get games when they go down to $20.. which happens for basically all I've ever been interested in.. Even though I definitely prefer having a disk, even I am doing the electronic download thing on PSN for some games that get SO CHEAP.. e.g. $5 for the Mass Effect trilogy. Even if I play for only a couple of hours total and don't play the whole game, I've still gotten a ton of entertainment for that price.)

    14. Re:An idea. by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      (I know there was controversy regarding the original ending of the third.. which was supposedly either fixed or at least slightly alleviated by DLC..)

      I'm only a little ways in, but at least from the podcast I'm currently listening to (Giant Bombcast), the several of the regular participants who have played them and really like them like the interaction with all of the NPCs and very deep back story about everything.

    15. Re:An idea. by onthemightofprinces · · Score: 1

      Regarding the cost of delivery for the game distributors, you are indeed right, which is why I find their pricing in the UK so bizarre. For instance: I went out to a supermarket and bought Until Dawn for £42. Obviously I got the disc, packaging and an unlockable scene for that price. Then I log on to the PSN store, and they're trying to sell the same game for £50, only with no physical product whatsoever. Truly strange.

    16. Re: An idea. by FlexPlexico · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't. Then again I live in the EU, so the cost of electronics for me is usually at a significant markup compared to what you would find in the US on newegg for instance.

      Plus, I'm already paying a few bucks extra per month for a Gigabit internet plan that allows me to download any game in minutes instead of hours. I don't do much gaming on consoles, but I have an extensive Steam library and find the arrangement quite convenient.

  2. PS4 Drive Replaceable by Kunedog · · Score: 4, Interesting

    It's worth noting that the PS4's hard drive is user-replaceable (for more space and/or SSD speed) while the X-Bone's is not. It's just one of the many things Sony did so much better this generation, even when it shouldn't have cost Microsoft much to keep up.

    1. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by JMJimmy · · Score: 4, Informative

      MS did something different - they made it so you can use external USB 3.0 drives for all the data. No need to buy a new console/mess around with the internals of your existing one - just plug it in and go.

      The one thing I would like to know is why this is "news". TrueAchievements.com and TrueTrophies.com have been compiling this data since the 360/PS3. They have it for Windows/GFWL/Windows Phone/etc as well.

    2. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by RogueyWon · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Advantages and drawbacks to both approaches.

      On the XB-One, you can get generally larger external drives than you can with the 2.5" internal drives you use with the PS4. You also don't need to open up the console to perform the drive-swap (though I've done said swap and it is pretty painless).

      On the other hand, that external drive is another unsightly box taking up space under your TV and will likely need external power, meaning it is yet another power-cable and socket you need to fit into the viper's nest behind your TV.

    3. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by KatchooNJ · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I upgraded my HDD in my PS4 to a 2TB drive on day one. 500GB just didn't sound impressive considering that everything does a full install. Heck, my PS3 even has a 1TB drive.

      --
      "Never give up, for that is just the time and place when the tide will change." -Harriet Beecher Stowe ^_^
    4. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by cfalcon · · Score: 1

      Microsoft burned so many bridges when they made that announcement. Everyone who hawks games and systems that I know went from pro- to anti- in the space of a day, because it was obvious that their new model was "go work at Wal*Mart video game ppls". Meanwhile, gamers in general were pissed (but were ok once Microsoft rolled back the majority of their crap).

      Personally, I have a 360 and I figured the next box would be like that except better. When they were all over the map with random crap, I just figured I'd put it off. At this point, I'm considering grabbing a PS4, which has only gotten better since launch. Still, I'm mostly PC and Nintendo.

      The cut job on the announcement still makes me laugh IRL:
      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    5. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2

      Yeah, I upgraded my HDD in my PS4 to a 2TB drive on day one. 500GB just didn't sound impressive considering that everything does a full install. Heck, my PS3 even has a 1TB drive.

      :)

      Did the exact same thing, with both consoles... Our PS3 upstairs has a 1TB drive in it and the PS4 got a 2TB drive before it was ever turned on for the first time.

      I just knew it would be a PITA to swap the drive out later, moving data between them, so I figured I'd just do it on day one.

      It was a smart move, we passed 500GB on that drive within a month, it is past 1TB now.... sadly, the space likely will run out by the end of this year...

    6. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by JMJimmy · · Score: 2

      USB 3.0 drives?... That solves _SO MANY PROBLEMS_... errr... not...

      Also replacing a PS4 drive is so easy you never even see the real internals, most of it is just pushing down a bit and sliding a thing off the top then removing a 3.5" from a nicely cradled thing.

      "not" - Seriously? USB drives do solve many problems, you no longer have a storage limit, you can have multiple connected or swap them, they can be transported to other consoles, all without compromising the original system. You can do some of that with the PS4 as well but you've got to power down, unplug, de-case and swap the drive... vs plugging in a USB cable. I mean, it's not a perfect solution but it's pretty flexible and user friendly.

    7. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by suutar · · Score: 1

      hmmm. NAS box in other room, usb dongle for ps4 that acts like a drive and uses network to communicate with actual drive... slower and less reliable, but gets the drives out of the way... now I wish I knew enough to try to build the thing :) Or at least to know what flaws I'm not realizing.

    8. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by EvilSS · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, that external drive is another unsightly box taking up space under your TV and will likely need external power, meaning it is yet another power-cable and socket you need to fit into the viper's nest behind your TV.

      Or use a 2TB portable drive. USB 3.0 cable is all that's connected and it's the size of a pack of cards. This is what I did with mine. Works like a champ.

      --
      I browse on +1 so AC's need not respond, I won't see it.
    9. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      aren't USB 3.0 drives slower than SATA? The speed in Real-world situations being more around 3Gb per second?

    10. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by gyroheli · · Score: 2

      You can store data on USB on a PS, it's a feature that PS3 had since day one i think. Using a USB as a HDD replacement though, those long load times just become that much longer. I don't know why you'd ever want to bring your whole HDD anywhere with you, sure gave saves or something that's fine and can be on a USB. A 1 TB USB drive is like x10 more expensive than a 1 TB HDD. Also no SSD capability. You lose so much more without being able to replace your HDD in your console. The main benefit you say about the USB applies to pretty much no one.

    11. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Five? Only 4 by my count:

      FFIV (realm reborn and heavensward don't count as a separate games)
      Type-0
      FFX and FFX-2 HD remasters which are bundled together..

    12. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by grahamtriggs · · Score: 1

      Replaceable - but not really swappable.

      At the very least, future consoles should at least make the storage hot-swappable, encouraging that you can install a large library across multiple storage units.

      It might be that you want to have some other fixed internal storage for game saves, to help support cloud backup facilities.

      But to be honest, it's about time we went back to cartridges. Memory costs are low enough now, and game prices so high, that the cost of manufacture, even at Blu-Ray scale, isn't prohibitive.

      Simply being able to unplug one game, plug another in, and start up instantly was a big part of the console experience.

      Moving to CD was mildly problematic with loading screens, but well executed titles largely got around that problem.

      But now, even if you buy a game on disc, you have to spend hours installing it (and then updating it). And it doesn't save you on space on the console, so you still have to juggle the games.

      Owning a console just isn't any fun anymore.

    13. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by JMJimmy · · Score: 1

      aren't USB 3.0 drives slower than SATA? The speed in Real-world situations being more around 3Gb per second?

      Neither SATA nor USB 3.0 are the limiting factor. Platter drives spin speed limits them to ~1.6Gbps (~200MBps) at best (10k RPM drive). SSDs can be limited by USB 3.0 to 5Gbps instead of their best ~6Gbps. USB 3.1 solves that (10Gbps) as does the latest SATA standard (16Gbps).

    14. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by JMJimmy · · Score: 1

      You can store data on USB on a PS, it's a feature that PS3 had since day one i think. Using a USB as a HDD replacement though, those long load times just become that much longer. I don't know why you'd ever want to bring your whole HDD anywhere with you, sure gave saves or something that's fine and can be on a USB. A 1 TB USB drive is like x10 more expensive than a 1 TB HDD. Also no SSD capability. You lose so much more without being able to replace your HDD in your console. The main benefit you say about the USB applies to pretty much no one.

      I'm not sure I understand you at all. 360/PS3 consoles had USB saving, and HDD saving, for most of their lives but limited the capacity until recently as an anti-piracy measure (or so they claimed). You could not play a game off them though due to the USB 2.0 ports limiting the transfer speed.

      Why I would want to bring my whole HDD with me? Here's a couple scenarios:
        - Heading to a friends place to play one of my games with him but only have a couple hours to play, I could spend that time re-downloading the game onto his console or I could just bring my drive with me.
        - Heading to family's for an extended period who have a 20GB monthly cap on their internet (no joke), either all 3 of us bring our consoles or 1 brings the console and the other two bring their drives.
        - Friend wants to "borrow" DLC I own, I can leave my drive with him & a signed in account for him to be able to access the content.

    15. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by im_thatoneguy · · Score: 1

      1TB thumb drives should be available shortly at reasonable prices. You could always just use one of those.

    16. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by ImprovOmega · · Score: 1

      While not released yet, the Final Fantasy VII remaster is due out this year, probably in December.

    17. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by batkiwi · · Score: 1

      You are fairly misinformed.

      1. The PS3 could save data to usb, but could not save installed games to USB.

      2. Both consoles (PS4 and xbone) come with fairly slow 2.5" laptop hard drives. This is why the new 1TB xbox comes with a hybrid drive, and why a lot of people replace their PS3/PS4 hard drives with hybrid or SSD drives. Many people are seeing DECREASED load times by moving to usb3 storage.

      3. Any 3.5" drive can be converted to a USB 3.0 drive with a $20 enclosure. I don't know where you're getting "x10 more expensive". Often, due to how they bundle drives and decrease warranty period, USB drives are CHEAPER than the equivalent hard drive bought on its own.

      4. You can plug an SSD into a usb3 enclosure, and you can even buy retail USB3 SSDs.

      I agree Microsoft should let you replace the internal drive, but apart from the fact that having a usb drive sitting on top of the xbox is ugly, there's no actual downside.

    18. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by KatchooNJ · · Score: 1

      Yeah, it doesn't help that I am one that likes to leave everything installed too. I guess I may have to break that rule down the line. heh

      --
      "Never give up, for that is just the time and place when the tide will change." -Harriet Beecher Stowe ^_^
    19. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by gyroheli · · Score: 1

      - Heading to a friends place to play one of my games with him but only have a couple hours to play, I could spend that time re-downloading the game onto his console or I could just bring my drive with me.

      So you mean that one off chance you actually go over to a friends house to play a co-op game im assuming. Not much of those left, even Halo is removing split screen. So for the other 99% of the time you use your console you'll end up suffering slow load times. Sound great.

      - Heading to family's for an extended period who have a 20GB monthly cap on their internet (no joke), either all 3 of us bring our consoles or 1 brings the console and the other two bring their drives.

      Why wouldn't all 3 of you want to bring your consoles? What if you want to play two different games at the same time? Also if your going to family's for an extended period why are you bringing your consoles over instead of, you know, spending time with your family?

      - Friend wants to "borrow" DLC I own, I can leave my drive with him & a signed in account for him to be able to access the content.

      Ah illegal copying.

      None of those points really cover a large portion of your console use. It really doesn't excuse not being able to swap out the internal HDD.

    20. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by JMJimmy · · Score: 1

      So you mean that one off chance you actually go over to a friends house to play a co-op game im assuming. Not much of those left, even Halo is removing split screen. So for the other 99% of the time you use your console you'll end up suffering slow load times. Sound great.

      a) Yes, there are still MANY couch coop games. They may not be AAA titles due to their tendency to be graphically too much to splitscreen, but they exist and are quite popular. As to the "one off chance", I guess you don't have many friends. I have a group of friends that play on a regular basis (usually weekly).

      Why wouldn't all 3 of you want to bring your consoles? What if you want to play two different games at the same time? Also if your going to family's for an extended period why are you bringing your consoles over instead of, you know, spending time with your family?

      In our case we usually end up at a location that has a single TV (a cottage we rent) - not much sense bringing 3 sets of duplicate consoles. What usually ends up happening in our case is that one brother-in-law brings the PS, one brings the Wii, and I bring the Xbox.

      Ah illegal copying.

      No, not illegal copying - only one copy exists on the external drive and the profile that bought it must be logged in to use it so I cannot play while I lend it to my friend. No different than if I were to hand him my physical copy.

    21. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by onthemightofprinces · · Score: 1

      FF7r isn't due out this year. It was announced as entering production earlier this year. It could be anything from 2-5 years before it's released.

    22. Re:PS4 Drive Replaceable by onthemightofprinces · · Score: 1

      I think that consoles do need to bear in mind that the are no appealing to the PC gaming market. One thing I love about my PS4 is that it can go inside a tiny cabinet, I only need two wires to power it and connect to my television and controllers never need wires because I use a charging dock. It's the tidiest console I've ever owned, and as such, it can stay in my front-room. My PC, on the other hand, is relegated to a back room where it has almost a hundred cables from the various NAS drives, routers, ext HDDs, iPhone docks, USB hubs, and battery chargers for my various wireless devices. So if I have guests, it never comes into the equation.

  3. Why 2.5" drives? by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 2

    Can anyone explain why they insisted on using 2,5" drives in both consoles? It seems like they could have shipped with 1tb for the same price if they'd used 3.5" drives. It's not like a few extra cubic inches of volume would have made people walk away from the deal.

  4. Indie games are a lot smaller by tepples · · Score: 1

    I look at 0.1-0.3 GB indie games compared to 10-30 GB major games, and now I realize that some people might end up choosing indie games precisely because they're more likely to fit.

    1. Re:Indie games are a lot smaller by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      Yeah, this. I have a launch PS4 with the 500GB drive. Luckily I'm not a " must have the brown military shooter of the week/seasonal sports game" sort of person so the space is not that restrictive...yet. But it probably will be by next year.

      Some indie's are running close to a GB these days though.

  5. Expandable Storage by WoodburyMan · · Score: 2

    Unfortunately it's relitively hard to open up the XBox One to replace the drive. Some have done so, and managed to clone the drive to a larger drive and gotten it to work. I took the easy route, as I have maybe 8 games and my 500gb drive was full. I got a Collective Minds Media Hub http://www.collectiveminds.ca/... (Also on Amazon). It snaps on to the end of the XBox One, making it appear as if it's part of the console, and gives you three front USB 3.0 ports for wired Controllers, Charging, whatever. The top feature, it contains a 2.5" Enclosure. I threw a 2TB 2.5" drive in there. I have it formatted to use as a system drive for games. I keep all my games on it, for archive, and keep the games I play at the time on my internal drive. A cheaper USB 3.0 external drive will work fine. Point being though, the article is correct, that 500gb for launch with games being REQUIRED to be installed to the drive is not enough, when 8 games, and reserved OS space, can fill it up.

    1. Re:Expandable Storage by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately it's relitively hard to open up the XBox One to replace the drive. Some have done so, and managed to clone the drive to a larger drive and gotten it to work. I took the easy route, as I have maybe 8 games and my 500gb drive was full. I got a Collective Minds Media Hub http://www.collectiveminds.ca/... (Also on Amazon). It snaps on to the end of the XBox One, making it appear as if it's part of the console, and gives you three front USB 3.0 ports for wired Controllers, Charging, whatever. The top feature, it contains a 2.5" Enclosure. I threw a 2TB 2.5" drive in there. I have it formatted to use as a system drive for games. I keep all my games on it, for archive, and keep the games I play at the time on my internal drive. A cheaper USB 3.0 external drive will work fine. Point being though, the article is correct, that 500gb for launch with games being REQUIRED to be installed to the drive is not enough, when 8 games, and reserved OS space, can fill it up.

      The point is, you don't replace the Xbone hard drive. If you need more storage, you put in a USB drive. Because on Xbone, the USB drive acts just like the internal drive - you can install games, saves, and other content on the USB drive as you can with the internal.

      Unlike the PS4, which requires games to be installed only on the internal drive, which means upgrading it is a PITA as you have to manually move all the saves to an external USB, upgrade the drive, then re-download and re-install all the games again.

      Xbone? Either plug in another USB hard drive, plug in a larger hard drive and move the content within the UI (if you only wish to have one drive), and no need to redownload or reinstall.

    2. Re:Expandable Storage by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      you have to manually move all the saves[/quote]

      Well, no, Saves are backed up to the cloud storage automatically

      [quote]upgrade the drive, then re-download and re-install all the games again.

      That's not quite accurate. You CAN backup the PS4 HDD itself, including games, to external storage, you just can't run them from there.

  6. To make the console not XBOX HUEG by tepples · · Score: 3, Informative

    Can anyone explain why they insisted on using 2,5" drives in both consoles?

    Because of all the XBOX HUEG jokes after Microsoft used a 3.5" drive in the original Xbox. One of the advantages of a console over a living room gaming PC is that a case smaller than a big honkin' PC tower is more likely to fit in with the other hardware next to your TV.

    1. Re:To make the console not XBOX HUEG by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 2

      Then Microsoft failed because the XBone is huge. My XBone's external drive has to share space in the PS4's nook because there isn't room for it in the XBone's nook. And it needs an external drive because Microsoft decided there's no reason for me to be able to upgrade their piddly 500 gig drive. And, as big as it is, they still gave me a huge, honkin' external power supply. And I can't set anything on top of the XBone because of the huge top vent.

      At least Sony hit the target when they aimed for a small size.

  7. Re:40GB? by RogueyWon · · Score: 2, Informative

    There have been some pretty big 30+ gig PC games over the last few months. I can't check exact sizes easily from here, but Witcher 3, GTA5, Metal Gear Solid 5 and Titanfall all have fairly vast install-footprints. As developers stop cross-developing for the Xbox 360, which is the last platform around limited to DVDs for its physical media, 30+ gig installs are only going to become more common on PC.

  8. Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by tepples · · Score: 2

    You save when buying a console, lose money over time when buying 100's of games.

    That's fine for people who live alone, not quite so fine for a parent with multiple gamers in the house. Say you see one game for a console and another game for a PC. The console game allows up to four players on a single TV, while the PC game requires you to buy a separate copy of the game for each player and run each copy on a separate PC. Which game do you buy? Also, time is money, and a lot of people don't want to waste time troubleshooting GPU driver issues, reconfiguring buttons whenever a USB gamepad is plugged in or out, and the like.

    I've summed up more of the Peasants' talking points in this article, and I'd be interested to see what I left out.

    1. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      I've summed up more of the Peasants' talking points

      Excuse me? You of all people, who was once obsessed with same-screen after-school multiplayer on SDTV, and who was obsessed with becoming a CONSOLE developer, shouldn't be using the word "peasant".

    2. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      "Time is Money, so waste it by playing video games."

    3. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by David_Hart · · Score: 1

      You save when buying a console, lose money over time when buying 100's of games.

      That's fine for people who live alone, not quite so fine for a parent with multiple gamers in the house. Say you see one game for a console and another game for a PC. The console game allows up to four players on a single TV, while the PC game requires you to buy a separate copy of the game for each player and run each copy on a separate PC. Which game do you buy? Also, time is money, and a lot of people don't want to waste time troubleshooting GPU driver issues, reconfiguring buttons whenever a USB gamepad is plugged in or out, and the like.

      I've summed up more of the Peasants' talking points in this article, and I'd be interested to see what I left out.

      I agree with the points that the "value" of PCs purely as a gaming platform is relatively low in comparison to the value of a console. From purely this perspective, the PC is more of a quality gaming experience rather than a value one. Although, there is an argument that could be made that the PC has a vibrant modding community which extends the values of games, such as Skyrim, much beyond their normal lifetime. This is one area where the PC adds value that the console lacks. Plus, PC games drop in price much quicker than console games do.

      However, everything in your article smacks of cherry picking. For example, It completely ignores the valid argument that a PC/laptop can and would be used for much more than gaming (i.e. work, homework), GPU driver issues really are a thing of the past (both ATI and AMD have push notification for new drivers), and that the vast majority of games now come with Xbox controller support which is easily added to a PC (No need for fiddling with controller settings). It also ignores the fact that you can get a PC comparable to the latest game consoles for under $1000. Yes, you can spend a ton of money on a nice GPU, but even the average GPUs today (i.e. R9 270) are more powerful than the latest consoles.

      I'm not arguing that any particular product is right for a family on a budget. It's up to each family to decide their priorities. But, if I was on a tight budget and I wanted the best value, I would buy something that does more than just gaming.

    4. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by tepples · · Score: 1

      However, everything in your article smacks of cherry picking.

      I admit to having collected what I believe are the strongest points in favor of consoles.

      It completely ignores the valid argument that a PC/laptop can and would be used for much more than gaming (i.e. work, homework)

      How many people are willing to carry a PC back and forth between the computer desk and the living room with the big TV?

      and that the vast majority of games now come with Xbox controller support which is easily added to a PC (No need for fiddling with controller settings)

      Until the player plugs in a controller that's a standard HID, not an Xbox 360 controller. Then people end up complaining that a game works only with XInput.

      It also ignores the fact that you can get a PC comparable to the latest game consoles for under $1000

      And you can get a PlayStation 4 game console comparable to the latest game consoles for under $400, which can be used at the same time that someone else in the household is using the family PC for work or homework.

      But, if I was on a tight budget and I wanted the best value, I would buy something that does more than just gaming.

      And a lot of people would use that as an argument for a $400 "work or homework" PC and a $400 PlayStation 4 over a $1,000 PC.

    5. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by tepples · · Score: 1

      People change. Markets change. Sometimes one needs to stop and look at the big picture.

    6. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by QuantumLeaper · · Score: 1

      I don't about you but I have my computer hooked up to my 40 inch widescreen TV, and it works great. The TV has HDMI and VGA inputs, and the video card VGA and HDMI outputs. The TV and computer cost under $1000. What don't you like 360 controllers? I got a 360 controller from a friend for FREE after he replace his second 360, he had 3 over the year, I believe. I also have two wired USB controllers also but I tend not to use them,

    7. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by tepples · · Score: 1

      I don't about you but I have my computer hooked up to my 40 inch widescreen TV, and it works great.

      I too have connected PCs to HDTVs through a VGA cable. But if you're keeping the PC in the living room all the time, how well does this work for you when you're using it for "work or homework"?

      What don't you like 360 controllers?

      It's largely a matter of consumer confusion. Not all controllers sold in the PC aisle are Xbox 360 controllers, and a wireless Xbox 360 controller from the Xbox 360 aisle won't work without a wireless receiver (sold separately; allow a week for delivery).

      I got a 360 controller from a friend for FREE

      If it was wireless, you still had to buy the wireless receiver and wait for it to be delivered.

    8. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by tepples · · Score: 1

      There's a big difference between fiddling with a game to get it to work and actually playing it. The latter is an entertaining waste of time, the former an exercise in frustration. Many people are willing to pay to skip the frustration. (Incidentally, this also explains abusive waiting mechanics in free-to-play mobile games.)

    9. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      There is NO market for Big Picture living room gaming on the PC! They're majority of them are mouse+keyboard elitists as you can see on Slashdot. The people who want to play games on big screens with controllers are doing so on console.

      You want to develop same-screen multiplayer games on the big screen? You need to do it on console, it's that simple. And if Sony/Nintendo/Microsoft don't hand out devkits to every guy with a dream, well you have to deal with the reality of the real world situation and do what you need to do to meet their requirements to get a game published.

      In other words, quit yer bitchin and DO something.

    10. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by tepples · · Score: 1

      There is NO market for Big Picture living room gaming on the PC!
      [...]
      quit yer bitchin and DO something.

      I want to DO something. Part of DOING something involves building a business plan, which includes finding evidence of a market or lack thereof. So how would I go about finding statistics to support this assertion of lack of a market?

    11. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      You may not agree, but it's Common Knowlege that there is no market for same-screen multiplayer games on PC. Do you know of any PC gamers that play same screen multiplayer on their PC? Do you know any games that support same-screen multiplayer on PC that aren't already on console? There is NO need to research. All this "research" you talk about it just a distraction and a delay tactic on your part. You KNOW what you need to do and yet you keep on NOT doing it, I think in part because you know your limitations.

      You can either:

      Write a game by yourself or with others that is good enough. You CAN self publish. The barriers aren't that high, here are SCEA's rules:

      https://partners.playstation.c...

      Or you can join an already existing company.

      For all the years you've been posting on Slashdot, you have done neither and the console makers are friendlier to Indies than they've ever been, so what are you waiting for?

    12. Re:Shared screen; no driver troubleshooting by tepples · · Score: 1

      Common Knowlege

      As they say on Wikipedia: [citation needed]

      Do you know of any PC gamers that play same screen multiplayer on their PC?

      That can be taken either of two ways. Do I know of people with a PC connected to a TV? Yes, and I imagine that a substantial percentage of them game.

      The other way is an implicit assumption that my personal friends and relatives form sample large enough to be valid. Do I personally have any friends or relatives who play same-screen multiplayer games on a PC? No. But I do have a cousin who routinely connects a PC to the living room TV to watch Netflix. Nor do I have any friends or relatives who own a PlayStation 4 or PlayStation Vita. I haven't even seen a Vita on the city bus. Even if Slashdot is a biased sample, it's still a much larger sample than my personal monkeysphere.

      Write a game by yourself or with others that is good enough.

      I am currently doing just this for a different, non-PlayStation platform. The one problem is that I'm unsure quite what you mean by "good enough".

      so what are you waiting for?

      I am waiting for my present paid video game project with another company on a non-PlayStation platform to be completed.

  9. Re:40GB? by SB2020 · · Score: 2

    SonA just built (with my help) a stonking PC. I put a 240Gb SSD in there thinking that would be fine for the hot new games and they could be moved to the platter when needed. 1 week later he's at 90% full. Plenty of games are around 40Gb - Evolve and Arkham Knight to name two.
    SonB got a XBone with 500Gb drive - a bunch of Games with Gold later and he's at 80% full within 2 weeks.
    F*ck knows where it all goes. Obscene disregard for compression and efficiency?

  10. Size and heat by KatchooNJ · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Can anyone explain why they insisted on using 2,5" drives in both consoles? It seems like they could have shipped with 1tb for the same price if they'd used 3.5" drives. It's not like a few extra cubic inches of volume would have made people walk away from the deal.

    Simple answer... size and heat. Everyone wants to produce the smallest console that also doesn't burst into flames.

    --
    "Never give up, for that is just the time and place when the tide will change." -Harriet Beecher Stowe ^_^
    1. Re:Size and heat by freeze128 · · Score: 1

      Simpler answer: physical shock tolerance. Play a video game in the back seat of an SUV, or on your tour bus, and you will be thankful that your $500+ game system is not a brick the first time you hit a pothole.

    2. Re:Size and heat by jtownatpunk.net · · Score: 1

      Funny you should say that. If I was playing while my tour bus was in motion, I'd want an SSD. But it's funny because I picked up both the PS4 and XBone on their release dates while I was in Texas during my year-long cross-country RV trip. I had a 14 drive media array in that RV full of 3.5" drives that handled the trip just fine. Of course, the drives weren't spinning while I was driving. That'd be dumb. But they all tolerated over 10,000 miles of bumps and bangs without losing a single bit.

      But in-motion gaming doesn't seem like a reasonable explanation. That market segment has to be a minuscule fraction of a percent of their target market.

  11. I'll go a step further and say... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The day one patch sizes are getting ridiculous....not to mention the fact even if you buy a game on disc it will try to do an install from the latest version online. Which is all fine if you have great connection.

    The install on the HDD if slow as it is, but having to wait a few hours while your "console" game patches itself is just getting stupid. I'm not even getting into server issues or connectivity issues (like I do with dumpy slow connection). ....dammit I just want to sit down and play a console game on my couch....I think I might buy a wii-u...

  12. Total size by felipou · · Score: 1

    Total size for 459 PS4 Games: 3318 GB
    Total size for 289 XBox One Games: 3040 GB

  13. Re:40GB? by xenotransplant · · Score: 1

    GTA 5 is 62 GB on my hard drive.

  14. Re:40GB? by FlyHelicopters · · Score: 2

    240GB SSDs for a gaming machine? Ouch!

    Amazon had a special a few days ago for a 1TB SSD for $279... If I didn't already have 1TB SSDs in all our gaming machines, I'd have picked up a few...

    My office machines have 256GB SSDs in them, but all they run is Windows, Office, and a few other programs, they are less than half full.

  15. Re:40GB? by bsolar · · Score: 1

    As far as I understand for performance reasons on consoles game assets don't get compressed as much as the PC counterpart.

  16. Re:40GB? by bob_super · · Score: 1

    Somebody's got a decent internet connection... care to share with the needy?

  17. Re:I haven't played it but... by bob_super · · Score: 1

    All those ads...

  18. Not an issue on PS4 by Narishma · · Score: 1

    It's less of a problem on PS4 because games only take a few seconds to install enough for you to start playing while the rest of the game is being installed in the background. I understand on the Xbox One it takes minutes for that initial install.

    --
    Mada mada dane.
    1. Re:Not an issue on PS4 by Xest · · Score: 1

      It's no different on either console (I have both) now, the X1 seemed slower at launch for whatever reason, but that seems to have been resolved. I think originally the X1 was checking disc data with the online digital version for whatever reason, and simply doesn't do this any more - it was probably a hangover from the pre-launch activation stupidity that they didn't manage to ditch in time for release.

      But the amount of playing you can do after a few seconds is worthless anyway on both consoles, so you're still stuck waiting for a game to actually be truly playable regardless. There just isn't enough throughput on either console's Bluray drives to stream enough data for this to ever be the case with the size of next gen assets.

    2. Re:Not an issue on PS4 by Narishma · · Score: 1

      That hasn't been my experience on PS4. I can usually start playing a new game within 20 seconds or so of putting the disc in for the first time.

      --
      Mada mada dane.
  19. Plus, it is $40! by KatchooNJ · · Score: 1

    How the fuck is angry birds 1.8gb??
    That's like 30% of vanilla skyrim.

    Not to mention, it retails for $39.99 (on disc), which leads me to think they are smoking crack.

    --
    "Never give up, for that is just the time and place when the tide will change." -Harriet Beecher Stowe ^_^
  20. Western releases only? by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 1

    It should be noted that it does not have every PS4 game. The two Yakuza (Ryuu ga Gotoku) PS4 games - Ishin and 0 - are notably absent.

  21. Still waiting for V2 by Ryan+McLaughlin · · Score: 1

    I am still waiting for V2 of the XBone before I even consider buying one. In the past the V2 of the xbox has made it smaller, cooler, and much more stable. I skipped all the red ring of death stuff on the 360 because I was willing to wait.

  22. Big table sucks, here's a histogram and some stats by elvstone · · Score: 1

    A big table is hard to interpret. Here's histograms, including means, standard deviations and links to the CSV data that I took from their HTML table:

    http://dose.se/~estan/installa...

    In short:

    PS4 games have a mean installation size of around 7.2 GB with a standard deviation of 11.1 GB, while Xbox games have a mean installation size of 10.5 GB with a standard deviation of 12.7 GB. The summary is misleading in saying that games "often" weigh in at over 40 GB. It's quite rare.

    The link above breaks it down across "Major" and "Indie" games (division as at the article link). Short story there is: "Indie" games are on average tiny compared to the average across all games, while "Major" games are slightly larger.

  23. Re:40GB? by Cederic · · Score: 1

    Games taking up over 10GB of space on my hard disk at the moment:
    Alpha Protocol - 12GB
    Assetto Corsa - 24GB
    Borderlands 2 - 11GB
    Company of Heroes 2 - 25GB
    DCS World - 19GB
    DiRT 3 - 12GB
    Divinity Dragon Commander - 14GB
    Gas Guzzlers Extreme - 16GB
    Grid 2 - 11GB
    King Arthur II (the role playing game) - 17GB
    Kingdom of Amalur - 12GB
    Left 4 Dead 2 - 13GB
    Max Payne 3 - 30GB
    Portal 2 - 12GB
    Shadow Warrior - 14GB
    The Secret World - 44GB
    XCOM Enemy Unknown - 19GB
    World of Tanks - 19GB
    Guild Wars 2 - 22GB
    Marvel Heroes - 18GB

    So sure, only one needs more than 40GB, but 10GB clearly isn't abnormally huge these days. Some of those games are years old!

    (Note that this isn't necessarily a representative list of the games I like or play)

  24. Re:460 vs. 290 by Cederic · · Score: 1

    By that reckoning both platforms would fail miserably, given that both combined have a couple of orders of magnitude fewer games than I can access just via Steam, let alone other channels.

    290 is plenty of games, if they're the right ones. A lot of people seem to think that they are.