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NY Times: Temporary Visas To Import Talent Help Copycats Take Jobs Abroad
ErichTheRed writes: A new article from the NY Times surprised me. It describes what we in the IT industry see all the time — H-1B visas being used way outside of their original purpose. I think this is significant because the article describes the problem well and shows how Tata, Accenture, etc. are offshoring regular office work as well as IT work. I feel that showing the average Joe/Jane that their nice safe middle class office job isn't so safe is the only way to sway popular opinion on this important matter!
Reader theodp notes that Congress is making H-1B visa less costly for India-based IT services providers.
Just saying, since according to the story immediately below this one, any controls of any type on the immigration of young fighting age men from Middle Eastern countries is apparently inherently racist*.
Consequently, any story about temporary work visas being bad must be racist x 1000.
* Unless of course the countries who don't let them in are also Middle Eastern countries. Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Egypt, etc. etc. etc.? Won't let a single refugee in. That's OK though because it's only racist if white people do it.
BTW --> China? Not on China: Not only do they refuse to take a single refugee, but the state-run media calls the US racist for only taking in tens of thousands of refugees instead of millions. Truly the real leader of the world and a shining example to all of us.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
Living in India.
Market Forces do not guarantee optimal, or even beneficial outcome to everyone affected. Just most profitable outcome for decision makers.
This is a clear case where US is bleeding jobs and wealth to other countries, so few individuals can enrich themselves while passing the costs/consequences "downstream".
I can imagine whoever wrote this article sitting in a large leather office chair, holding a white cat while saying "one BILLION clicks!"
"There are lies, there are damn lies, and there are statistics"
The Luddites were a group of early 19th-century English cotton mill workers who destroyed industrial machinery they believed were taking their jobs via automation. Today, we generally consider such people backward and provincial.
FTFA it states that the irony is that many who are losing jobs to outsourcing to India via H1B are in fact immigrants to the US themselves. People from all over the world who moved to the US to go to school then found jobs here.
To look at this from a macro perspective, it is the continuing "flattening" of the Earths wealth, whereby the oft used phrase "redistribution" actually means wealth flowing from the First World middle class to a sprinkling(crumbs off the table...) onto the lower classes of the Second World countries, and the meat of the wealth going to the "non-aligned" (for lack of a better phrase) 1%.
The non-aligned would be those who have no loyalty to country, race or religion. Their loyalty lays only to the brutal Social Darwinism, whereby profit isn't enough, where rendering our planets environment a wreck isn't enough, where forcing homeowners onto the street isn't enough, while they themselves get cushy bailouts, tax breaks and special treatment at every turn.
We play the game with the bravery of being out of range
People are commodities, nothing more. I need to improve my P&L sheet, and the work just has to be good enough. The more I can outsource, the better, because I've cut my OCOGS, I've improved EBITDA, and I've got a good track record on my c.v. that will help me get promoted to Director. This is the way of the future: unless you go into business for yourself or get an MBA and ascend into the management classes, you will all be replaceable peons and I'll make my money off that. And don't bother hitting me with morality arguments. There is no God, and no afterlife--we all end up the same so I'm going to get mine while I can.
abird
Captcha: clowns
As long as it helps the friends of power to make more profit this week, the long term negative effects are irrelevant. Especially since the negative effect of having fewer jobs with lesser pay only affects the unwashed masses; too bad for them if they weren't born rich.
And people wonder why rich are getting richer and the middle class is shrinking.
But hey - free market is good and socialism is bad, right?
Sure - until you have to live on that socialist welfare because your capitalist company owners dumped your ass cause you cost too much.
blindly antisocialist = antisocial
entitlement issues much?
With a UBI, H1-Bs would not be a problem. Give out as many as you can to people who want to come here to _work_. Don't want to work? Visa revoked, go home.
Let all of these H1-Bs and the sick-fuck corporations who want to hire them pay all of the taxes that will support the rest of us (that they put out of work) with a UBI.
I'll take a UBI to have my life back from those sick-fuck corporation that are consuming 1/3-1/2 of it.
"William Werfelman, a vice president and spokesman at New York Life, said the outsourcing was part of a transformation of its technology systems that would soon result in more jobs in the United States. “Our decisions are centered on keeping the company competitive, keeping it in the United States, keeping it growing,” he said."
We outsource jobs to india to create jobs in the united states. WHY CAN'T YOU PEOPLE SEE THAT?
Outsourcing also lets us keep the company (read: MY job) in the United States.
I can't believe he is actually able to say that with a straight face.
captcha: retail
what has "popular opinion" got to do with any governance issue these days?
Seriously, h1b is used to keep local and immigrant pay down. If America needs these talents, then we should have them live here permantly. At the same time, they should be paid the average pay for that position. Otherwise, it is simply a company using an immigrant, rather than solving a true issue.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
The USA should start exporting it's tech workers to other countries on temp visas to see how they like it.
the average Joe/Jane that their nice safe middle class office job isn't so safe
When has an I.T. job have ever been safe? As an I.T. support contractor for the last ten years, I had frequent bouts of unemployment between assignments. The worse was when I was out of work for two years (2009-10), underemployed for six months (working 20 hours per month), and filed for Chapter Seven bankruptcy in 2011. Even my current government I.T. job is under threat from a government shutdown from the nut jobs in Congress.
All these temporary visas come with a mountain of restrictions which end up giving a ridiculous amount of power to the employers and nothing to the employees. They should be scrapped for flat out green cards, not a temporary visa then to a green card 10-15 years down the road for Indians. There shouldn't be a second class, temporary worker thing at all.
However, all the newspaper want to do is make Indian IT workers as a cheap villain, robbing American jobs and sometimes taking them to India.
People really think implementing a newer version of the "Asian/Indian exclusion act" is going to solve the problem. "If we restrict the Indians from coming here, my job will be safe" mentality.
We are fighting the powerful forces of economics here. India has a massive surplus of highly trained and educated work force. That's their export. H1B is a tiny tiny little window.
Those accounting jobs at ToysRUs were going to India no matter what, H1B was just used as a quick way for the new workers to get up to speed. If you stop the Indians from coming here, the companies can simply ask the workers to go to India to train their replacements to get their severance packages.
All the people who complain that it is the 1% getting all the benefits of workers while the middle class hollows out - guess why that is. Convoluted and restrictive government regulation. Only the 1% can circumnavigate the complex legal maze to get the benefits of cheap labor in India while a new startup or a small business will struggle to utilize it.
Make the whole thing simple and not so exploitative. The middle class will blossom because lots of startups and small businesses will benefit from cheap Indian labor.
I don't understand the protectionism mentality that exists. No one owes anyone a job just because they are qualified and breathing. So what, if millions of other people can do your job, cheaper, faster and better you get replaced. That is the the business side of things. If you're really that smart then you should be able to employ yourself.
My first introduction to offshoring was 15 years ago when they shipped in a bunch of consultants to shadow a floor of mainframe developers who were all told they were being fired in 6 months. Felt bad for both sides. The young kids shipped off to a new country, making little money, getting yelled at all day by people who were told they aren't worth paying anymore. But, that's a free market economy. If someone can undercut you and do the job just as good or better, people are going to do it. I've found that IT people can value their contributions differently than the business and when the two aren't aligned these things can happen. (And yes, sometimes business just plain doesnt understand and fucks up). Ultimately, if someone can do my job with limited english skills and 3,000 miles away then I'm clearly not as good as I thought I was. It's on me to make sure that doesn't happen.
The term "copycats" implies that Toys'R'Us's accounting procedures are somehow the property of the US accounting profession. The fact that these procedures are so complex that they even require consultants to come in and "shadow" workers in order to figure out how to do them properly is itself a testament to the ludicrous complexity of US accounting rules (which are themselves in large part a consequence of lobbying by lawyers and accountants).
As for Toys'R'Us "outsourcing" these jobs to to India, the company is a global company, with half its stores outside the US. If any justification were needed for moving these jobs abroad, that alone would suffice.
I just hope we'll be able to outsource our personal taxes and financial services overseas as well, so that tax preparation and other kinds of personal finance become cheaper and more generic as well.
Well, to be fair, an Indian migrating to US today can never really get a green card, they are processing green cards from 2008 or so and progressing at 5-10 days/month. Intuitively this speed will only reduce. Cant really fault people for wanting to make money in USD and move back to India, US has declared that Indians are not acceptable as permanent residents and should only be treated as temp workers tied to employers, just like how white collar workers in Gulf are treated (AFAIK US and Gulf countries, specifically UAE though I believe the others are similar are the only countries with both an attractive job market and which do not allow Indians to get permanent residency. Scandinavian, European (though I guess those will go away after Syria), Canada and Australia all give citizenship in less than 10 yeas)
yet, US still charges Indians living there social security tax though they will not retire there or be able to claim the benefits ever
The main effect of outsourcing and H1B Visas is that it is driving wages down.
When I saw this in the Times yesterday, the thing that surprised me was that a major news outlet was reporting on this in very matter-of-fact terms. As we've seen, these discussions get heated, and for the record I'm not one of the "they took our jerbs" people for the most part. What I don't like is the abuse of the system by these offshoring companies, and the erosion of any sort of stability throughout the workforce.
As originally intended, there's nothing wrong with the H-1B and L-1 visa programs. I work for a multinational company and we often use these to bring in very talented employees who just happen to be citizens of another country. The difference here is that most of these people are designing products and providing the exceptional advanced-level knowledge that the visa was originally intended to allow. In the article, and indeed in most IT departments, this is just a flat-out replacement of a low level office job. Tata or Accenture or whoever is just bringing in the few people in their offshore centers who have the capability to learn the target job and teach it to the hundreds of other interchangeable workers they have back home. This is what I think has to be looked at; companies simply don't want to pay for any labor anymore if they don't have to and now we have an environment where they can easily avoid doing so. I like how the article puts it right in peoples' faces -- it's no longer the problem of some anonymous factory worker in the rust belt or an IT worker that makes a higher salary and has a higher perceived degree of stability than the accountants they were profiling.
What bothers me more about this is the loss of economic stability. People are going to avoid buying things if they aren't secure in their jobs, period. The 30-year mortgage was designed around the idea that people would at least stay in the house for 10 or 15 years, preferably for the full 30. Someone who's picking up stakes and moving every five years chasing the jobs around the country to the lowest-cost environments is wasting a huge amount of money in real estate transfer taxes, realtor commissions, loan fees, mortgage interest (since it's front-loaded), etc. It easily costs mid-5 figures when everything is added up to move, but most people just pay for it with their next mortgage and don't think about it. Not to mention the cost -- moving a family with kids around constantly does not make for a stable home life. Ask any military family about that; every military kid I've ever talked to says they hated moving every year or two because they never got to settle in somewhere and put down roots.
It sounds really mean to say this, but think about your average corporate worker. Not management, not a hotshot developer, just a random cubicle dweller producing reports or processing customer records. The jobs in the article, like low level corporate accounting tasks and such, were where the vast majority of average, C-student college graduates have wound up for the last 30+ years. The progression was thus - get into a big state university, party your way through 4 years and get a generic business or communications degree, show up at corporate recruiting events during your senior year, and get hired on for some sort of entry level task. If you kill off all the middle class jobs out there, what do you propose doing with these educated people who previously bought houses, paid property taxes, and felt secure enough in their lives to have a family? If there's no good answer for this, why are we bothering telling students that college is worth it in the long term? These are the questions that need to be asked, and no one is doing it because companies are only focusing on today, not 20 years from now.
Dumbshit MBA's believe globalisation is a good thing, luckily a couple years from now, they too will be wondering where their jobs went.
If the workers were in a union, this bullshit wouldn't be happening. There is a union for office workers and it workers. It is called OPEIU - Office Professional Employees International Union and I'm in it. www.opeiu.org I used to work at various IT shops from startups to fortune 500 companies. I had the typical salary job and worked the typical IT 50-60 hour week crap. Not any more. We unionized and now get paid hourly. Overtime is time and a half on anything over 40 hours and Sunday is double time. No one can stop you from organizing, that is illegal. You just need the balls to do it. People bitch and moan about these jobs getting outsourced, but they sit there and help train their replacements like the helpless little idiots they are. If you are that spineless then you deserved to be outsourced. Yes, the company will dangle your severance package over your head and you won't get anything if you quit before training your replacement, but if you don't stand up against this bullshit, you get what you deserve.
While I think the whole thing sucks, here's the problem:
TRU isn't bringing in H1-B workers.....they're hiring TCS to replace a department for cheaper. Done. End of TRUs involvement with choosing the replacement workers.
TCS is using H1-Bs to bring in people skilled in job shadowing as part of the outsourcing contract.
TCS is then using Indian labor to fulfill the contract because those workers are cheaper and can NOW do the same job, thanks to the job shadowers.
Had TRU picked a different outsourcing firm, that firm would have still brought in people to learn the processes and the TRU people would have lost their jobs (or potentially been transferred to the outsourcing firm --- that used to be a fairly common condition of outsourcing).
So, who's to blame? TCS if anyone. Could they have found some non-Indian people qualified to do the job shadowing (the skill the H1-Bs were hired for)?
From the article, not all of the people on-site to run the outsourcing were on H-1B or L-1 visas. Someone really could be a world-class expert in KT for outsourcing, coming form India, but not a particularly competent accountant. And there aren't any laws that prevent the end result of this kind of outsourcing. The KT people weren't taking the incumbent employees jobs, it sounds like those were going to third persons back in India who would never set foot in this country.
(Speaking as someone who once had a phone interview for Wipro, and currently works for a U.S.-based outsourcing company that competes directly with Accenture and Infosys and has a huge India workforce.)
Of course the Luddites were right about their own personal situation, but let's gloss over that part.
This one hits close to home for me. Having worked for Accenture for a number of years, I saw the H-1B visa scam play out over and over. The campus I was staffed at originally hosted several thousand employees, then Accenture started bringing in the visas. Every year Accenture would grab as many visas as possible, train those people in at an existing jobs, then send those people back to their home country with someone else's job and make a round of layoffs locally. By the time I quit, those thousands of jobs had been cut to hundreds and the campus was a ghost town.
Having seen this repeat so many times, the whole political theater over illegal immigrants seems ridiculous. If our representatives aren't trying to save good paying jobs that require government approval to be shipped away, it's clear that the whole immigrant debate is just a political red herring.
To be clear, I have no problem with immigrants who come to stay and make what they can in this country. Pretty much all of our ancestors did this at some point. People that come here to swoop up a job and bring it home, however, that's another story.
Brazil, and China. have basic health care for all.
also Brazil has good workers rights as well.
Will throw Americans under the bus in a second to be a cheapskate.
Cant have stock holders bare their fair share.
Please post where you learned you history so /.ers can avoid being so stupified.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Sometimes you just have to experiment. Let's try getting a better deal from our Asian trade partners rather than keep accepting the lopsided trade. Don't use tariffs to halt trade, but rather as a negotiation tool.
Their system and currency is set up to increase exports rather than local consumerism. They will keep doing that UNTIL we give them a clear incentive to do otherwise.
And tell the WTO to go shove it. We'll do things our way on our own terms.
Table-ized A.I.
I've got kids and plenty of family in the toy-consuming age bracket......and I can't remember the last time we set foot in a Toys R Us.
With any luck, internet retailers will kill the Toys R Us model anyway - its about efficiency (for me) you know.
But I'm afraid that it won't convince "the average Joe/Jane that their nice safe middle class office job isn't so safe." That's because the average Joe or Jane doesn't read newspapers much anymore, and they certainly don't read the Times. I also suspect that Joe and Jane, if they or their family members have salaried jobs, have already seen this situation and perhaps been affected by it. If you want to get the message out, then it has to get to the cable news channels, where it can be explained in basic English and illustrated by a couple of interviews. The extreme right-wing is already against the H1B program for its own reasons.
When you combine the H1B assault on the middle class, with the "workforce optimization" programs used for hourly staff, you get a severe squeeze on all workers, which helps to explain why so few people outside the 1% feel secure in their jobs and their lives.
Given the comments and practices of the employer/sponsors, immigration lawyers, lobbyists for guest-work visa programs, and, yes, many of the visa grantees, there seems to be quite a bit of evidence of belief in guest-worker privilege.
The "Connections" series with James Burke helps a lot.
The article neglects to report on the end results of this process - making it seem like 'well, this is nasty, but it's what American business needs to do to remain competitive'. Since they mention Cognizant as one of the big players using this 'tape the current workers and then fire them' approach, let me comment as an ex worker that was ultimately fired after surviving a Cognizant outsourcing for several years and working with their devs (technically 'rebadged' as a Cognizant dev myself):
1. Productivity takes a huge hit. I have no idea whether the cost savings are enough to counteract that, but in our case the software products that had their development outsourced, all - without exception - have died on the vine and are now running on skeleton crews in anticipation of being shutdown once all existing support contracts with customers end. That's the endpoint where I lost my job.
2. The Indian developers never get up to speed. Or more accurately, they begin to get up to speed after 9 months to a year - but then Cognizant rotates them out to other projects, and you're back to total green junior guys watching the videos and asking stupid questions again. And yes, this is all by design. Cognizant's big selling point to the US companies is that they enable great flexibility to ramp staff up and down on demand. Why those companies believe that crap is another story altogether.
3. There is no concept of a senior developer. Prior to the Cognizant experience, the senior devs came up through the ranks and had an incredible depth of knowledge and experience about the specific products they were managing. Ultimately, that product-specific knowledge became as valuable as their tech chops. The Cognizant model relies on 'business analysts' who came up through the product design - i.e. spec writers, not through development. So where those folks used to be or have access to senior developers to sanity check their designs, there is now an utter vacuum. So there is no iterative back-and-forth to fix broken designs. Stuff gets built (way late) according to specs with problems that should've been caught along the way. Meanwhile, the offshore dev's spun their wheels trying to build something they didn't understand - often because it didn't make sense. Only to need to have it completely trashed and rewritten.
4. And this is a big one. All that 'knowledge transfer' material (i.e. the videos and any corresponding writeups) are the exclusive property of Cognizant. So that even if you come to realize that the Cognizant outsourcing was a mistake, you have already fired the people who had the original knowledge - and you don't even own the (shitty) materials to train staff to replace Cognizant. They essentially own your operation - at the same time as they drag it down.
Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
I thought that was all just the spirit of free trade. If you have the ability to take an idea and do it better then why not. There are plenty that do the same within the US, why would it be ok, to copy the aspects of a business model only if you stay within the country of origin?
The us did it in the past in copying some of the business models of Japan... If you read sam waltons book "made in america" walmart did it too, taking all the things that worked for his competitors and trying to implement them within walmart.
if the outcome is better quality of life and lower cost products, then I don't see how this is a bad thing.
on a side note... I'm worried about all these cars are going to affect my horse buggy making business. we need to ban cars
We live in this entitlement society where we expect the government to care for us, secure our jobs, etc. Well, I'd prefer to take personal responsibility for myself and be free to travel, learn, and go where I please. Be it a socialist hell hole or even a 'terrorist' training camp in some far off corner of the world. There are costs to living in a free state. If we actually value the ideals we claim to uphold we must take a step back and say sometimes freedom comes at the cost of life.
I have no doubt that opening the boarder would push wages down. However free trade has been pushing wages down for 30 years. We started outsourcing manufacturing to China in the late 70s (1979). We moved on. People in the US took up education and our lives largely improved. Now maybe if we stopped throwing money at the educational industrial complex we'd actually have sane educational costs rather than the souring prices which make it impractical that we have now. It might help if we stopped training so many kids for degrees that would leave them stranded. Maybe capping the number of humanities and liberal arts majors for a start. The problems we have are the labor isn't going where it needs to go in order to maintain high paying careers or a middle class life-style. Fixing this should be a priority.
We also need to eliminate the social welfare programs including education, vehicle registration, license plates, social security, insurance, etc. I'm not a republican and don't necessarily think we shouldn't cover *common* critical stuff we all need. We need roads and we need hospitals, but what we don't need middle-men for-profit insurance companies.
Short of this we need severe limits on a lot of this stuff. The middle class shouldn't be paying for it at all. You want free education, housing, and food? Go setup camps to educate those truly in need. The majority of Americans *could* pay for all these things themselves if we didn't have government programs costing us billions of dollars. I could have long ago have paid for college without a loan had it not been for the insane taxes and educational system that lives off government and government-backed funding.
I agree with most of the people commenting here. My question is what's the recommended path to support reduction or reform of H1-B program? I tried to find organizations that lobby Congress against the influx or expansion of the program but all I could find were from the early 2000's.
I'm ready to donate money and time to the right organization if one exists
I've been a hiring manager at a few large companies over the years. It's never been easy to find good people with or without H1-Bs. Right now I'm sitting on 3 open seats for devs, it's not because of pay or benefits - on the face of it these are pretty desirable jobs - it's just really hard to find qualified candidates. Once I'm turning great people away I'll believe we don't have a talent pool problem.
---- Den ene knappen er powerknapp, den andre er Bender voice knapp "Bite My Shiny Metal Ass"
Society as a whole eventually did fine, excess labor was channeled into other jobs and as a species we were better off. The Luddites themselves often faced gloomy job prospects, loss of social standing, financial distress and even bankruptcy. So they were wrong, but also right in a way.
Sometimes you just have to experiment.
Suggest something that hasn't already failed miserably and isn't based on whimsical fantasy and I'd be pretty interested. So far no one has come up with a reasonable alternative.
That's about 1.4M legal immigrants (legal permanent residents = green card grantees) per year, over 580K on H+L and about 635K with E guest-work visas. 70K "refugees", 25K "asylees" per year, including about 1,520 known Muslim terrorists whom cousin Obummer and Jeh Johnson assure us will never misbehave ever in the USA.
Took you a while to clue in, huh?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Elite colleges in the US are plagued with international students, particularly computer science majors. A very significant amount of the greatest engineering talent comes from these colleges: MIT, Stanford, the Ivy league, etc. Additionally these kids generally come to the US to stay, at least for a good while: consider that they can expect to be paid 10x less in their home countries. The admission process of top american universities recognized these kids as being more talented than american candidates. Are companies to blame for wanting to get these kids an H1-B? Or is the american education system and its lack of results the real root of the problem?
No.
"Functioning" is a pretty low standard -- just like the standard of living for many people in those countries. We shouldn't settle for "functioning".
the taxes I've saved by writing off my mortgage interest and property taxes
A number of republican presidential candidates want to ax the mortgage interest and/or state tax deductions. Power to them. The rest of us shouldn't be subsidizing your houses.
" “To do this quickly and efficiently,” she said, Cengage sought support from Cognizant."
I understand the words individually, but put all together they just don't make sense.
Yes, there are a lot of very talented and driven international students who come to the US. I know many of them. Power to them. I'm happy to have them stay.
The issue here is jobs that don't require very talented and driven people. The article is about outsourcing accountant positions. We're not talking about MIT trained engineers; we're talking about run-of-the-mill, white-collar jobs that many people can do.
You're talking about the first category, but the article is about the second category: the H1B system was meant to bring in people from the first category, but the system is being abused to bring in people from the second category. The american education system is irrelevant to this discussion.
You make it sound like all or nothing (knob at 0 or 10). It's not. Japan has relatively high tariffs and "protectionism" from big-box stores, yet one of the lowest unemployment rates in the world. True, certain goods are more expensive there, but one could argue that jobs are more important than cheaper trinkets.
Some countries also have the same or higher median income as the USA, yet higher taxes. That's good evidence that higher taxes on the wealthy don't hurt the middle class. (I didn't use "average" for a reason.)
Table-ized A.I.
H1-B1 100k + COL min wage will help as well with it going to 150K-200K for any one working 80 hours a week.
[...]the H1-B system is totally broken and is being used to help decimate the American middle class.
Dec.i.mate: kill one in every ten of (a group of soldiers or others) as a punishment for the whole group.
As long as it's only one in ten, I'm kind of OK with this. Also, I'm kind of OK with the idea that such punishment is actually deserved, since it implies 90% "good apples" and 10% "bad apples", which, if you've ever worked a middle class job, is very easy to credit as an underestimation.
What you're describing are just various flavors of mixed economy capitalism which is what pretty much everyone is using nowadays. Nothing to see here, move along.
If you get pulled into HR for that talk to sign your replacement's training agreement, sign it. Then teach your replacement the most screwball, unreproducible way to do your job. For example, don't just pull-up stuff.log and look at line 14 like you always do in a text editor. Show them how you write a new script from scratch in the command line that forces you to review, in alphabetical order, every log file on your computer before you get to stuff.log. Do you job, but do it in the most bone headed way you can. Add complicated extras steps, "to prevent errors you must check every xyz file for the customer's name to prevent foobar errors do to the fizzbat requirement. Do NOT show them the easy way to do it, not even once. Hide your implicit knowledge. You have nothing to lose - toss your wooden shoes (sabats) into the loom!
So, then we do know the solution (or at least an improvement), but are not currently applying it in the USA.
Table-ized A.I.
We already have mixed economy capitalism in the US. All the countries that use it have slightly different flavors, they all have problems, it just sucks in slightly different ways.
I just don't get you Americans.
These visas were invented to enable highly-skilled workers to come from overseas to work in the US. That's clearly not what they're doing. Why don't those laid off sue? Or at least write your congressmen?
That's a truism either way because just about every economy back to antiquity is a mix of central (hierarchical) control and market forces. Even the Soviet Union had some amount of barter going on, which is a form of a market system.
I'm presenting solutions based on looking around to see what other countries do and the impact of such actions. The categorization of such solutions is mostly a game of terminology minutia that doesn't interest me. Nor am I necessarily looking for some revolutionary economic invention. If it's "mere tuning", so be it. I'm not here to add more cowbell.
Table-ized A.I.
Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET agrees hosts = good security -> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...
Oliver Day (Symantec) does too -> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...
MalwareBytes' hpHosts BOTH hosts & recommends my APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...
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* HOW MANY REAL SECURITY PROS (not menial wannabe rookie like you) DO I NEED TO KNOCK THE CHOCOLATE OUT OF YOU SOME MORE?
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Those security pros?
They INCLUDE ME too you noobie rookie obvious dimwit as I work with those guys from malwarebytes' hpHosts on a fairly regular basis!
I've worked professionally for decades as a combined domain-wide network admin & software engineer professionally since 1994 (with ME showing you HOW to migrate a hosts file across an enterprise -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )
(I've also been securing computers + WRITING GUIDES (which you told me you learned from guides) + WARES TO DO IT 1,000's to MILLIONS USED, probably LONGER THAN YOU HAVE BEEN ALIVE possibly BEING PAID FOR IT -> http://pcpitstop.com/news/winn... )
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You're all TALK & can't back it -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
APK
P.S.=> YOU say "hosts=bad" (yet they add security, speed, & reliability) & bitch about using admin privelege (first) to UPDATE them vs. threats online:
"So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)
Hypocrite - You admit using admin priv yourself & how else could I programmatically update hosts minus it inside Windows?
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"Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)
Since you're MENIAL ASS limited in skills self doesn't code (& didn't even KNOW that) & CLUE/FACT:
Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best there is) DEMANDS you use admin privelege (you saying it's "bad" too?) it can't do its job fully otherwise, like many security tools... apk
We are fighting the powerful forces of economics here. India has a massive surplus of highly trained and educated work force. That's their export. H1B is a tiny tiny little window.
Then build up India to stand for itself, instead of cribbing off the notes of developed countries.
People really think implementing a newer version of the "Asian/Indian exclusion act" is going to solve the problem. "If we restrict the Indians from coming here, my job will be safe" mentality.
If that's what you call a complete rollback to 1940's era immigration law, then it's worth a try. Besides, nothing excludes them if they become full-fledged citizens.
Guest workers got us into this mess, getting rid of them will help get us out of it. It would also serve as test of alignment to one's country - the wheat will stay and hire citizens within the US, the chaff will die out or run away to some hellhole.
The middle class will blossom because lots of startups and small businesses will benefit from cheap Indian labor.
You mean small businesses like this one?
No thank you, but startups (and other parts of the on-demand economy) are too unstable in terms of stability, compensation, and long-term planning. Even the worst days of Fukushima would be more stable than the best days of a startup.
Make the whole thing simple and not so exploitative
Adopt Australia's approach of a points system and a consistent approach of enforcement - but omit any guest worker program.
Twitter supports and protects racists - by smearing their critics with the "Hate Speech" label.
I'm NOT surprised;
http://www.rediff.com/business...
Casteism