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Oculus Founder Explains Why the Rift VR Headset Will Cost "More Than $350"

An anonymous reader writes: When Oculus took to Kickstarter in 2012, the company sought to create the 'DK1', a development kit of the Rift which the company wanted to eventually become an affordable VR headset that they would eventually take to market as a consumer product. At the time, the company was aiming for a target price around $350, but since then the company, and the scope of the Rift headset, has grown considerably. That's one reason why Oculus Founder Palmer Luckey says that the consumer Rift headset, launching in Q1 2016, will cost more than $350. '...the reason for that is that we've added a lot of technology to this thing beyond what existed in the DK1 and DK2 days,' says Luckey.

109 of 174 comments (clear)

  1. Why is this taking so long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    This sounds like a classic case of feature creep. Good luck to them, but at this point, things look very bleak. This team is lacking strong management that can throw the bullshit flag on the field and rein them in.

    1. Re:Why is this taking so long? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      At first glance that sure seems the case, but VR is already quite hard to sell people on. It would be hard to release a "sub-par" version and get enough traction to iterate on that on a yearly release or something. People would buy it and not be too impressed with the result, which would make it harder to justify a subsequent purchase of an improved model.
      On the other hand, what they did, you can hold off and release a better version to start with, which I can't help but feel is the right choice.
      It's always going to be hard to get people on board at any price. Might as well offer something that lives up to a reasonably high standard. It should also be a product that can have a longer life, something that's important at these prices (considering computer monitors, nowadays, last you a fair number of years).

    2. Re:Why is this taking so long? by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      quite the opposite actually. Think about it, it's been 3 years since the first of this new generation of VR started. I've followed it very closely and own a couple of the devkit headsets that have come out over those three years. I have watched it evolve from a barf inducing curiosity to an established and amazing new format. 99% of the work that has gone into it is finding out what you can and can't do in VR. Some people are nearly immune to the motion sickness (John Carmack, Oculus CTO) others are highly susceptible to it (Brendan Iribe, Oculus CEO) At their last keynote they talked about how excited they were that Brendan was in a new Mincraft project for well over an hour and was still having a great time, where up until that time he was 15 minutes and turning green.

      It's really hard to sell a product when a good review is usually followed with "5 stars! It didn't make me sick." Oculus has developed the best practices around what makes a headset get that kind of rating.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
  2. Engineering is expensive by Overzeetop · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The parts of cheap. Make 100 Million headsets and you could sell them profitably for $150. They've got a mountain of engineering debt to pay off, though, and they're sure as hell not going to sell 100 million.

    People (and research) are expensive. That's why it's going to cost so much.

    --
    Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    1. Re:Engineering is expensive by KGIII · · Score: 1

      The only reason I'd want such a critter would be for augmented reality and, frankly, I'd rather not want to meander around with these sorts of things on my head to enjoy that. It'd be neat to get "information overload" when viewing the skyline. As I hopped onto the Skyway (I'm in Buffalo still, I have my reasons) I was curious as to when and where the idea came from, how tall it was, etc... It'd be neat to have that information available in small text inside my glasses but, you know, I probably shouldn't drive while reading about my surroundings.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:Engineering is expensive by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Oh - and occasional time to immerse into a VR world but, as a general rule, I'd probably avoid that. If done well, I think it'd be too addictive.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    3. Re:Engineering is expensive by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      Just curious, have you tried one of the modern (2015) versions of VR?

      Even the late 2014 development kits were pretty amazing and has replaced my previous gaming with headset gaming.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    4. Re:Engineering is expensive by Osgeld · · Score: 1

      so is dragging your ass for 4 years and not really having any product

    5. Re:Engineering is expensive by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I haven't. I tried a long time ago at a convention and wasn't really impressed. I am also not really a gamer. The last game I played seriously was Fallout 2 and I gave up playing games when Fallout Tactics came out and turned out to be mentally handicapped (i.e. retarded). That doesn't mean I don't amuse myself, I just do it in other ways - such as 'conversing' on Slashdot.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    6. Re:Engineering is expensive by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      Tech doesn't magically appear. It occurs because of engineering. It may not be your engineering budget, but somebody spent the money, time, and research costs to develop what you will eventually use.

      And, just for the record, a lot of positional tracking DID come from rocket science (and the closely associated aeronautical work). And we spent a shitload of money on that kind of engineering just to get to the starting blocks where mobile phones could even consider them.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    7. Re:Engineering is expensive by Kartu · · Score: 1

      How would FB make money on them to get subsidies back?

    8. Re:Engineering is expensive by mobby_6kl · · Score: 1

      No shit. It's this and the feature creep with the stupid headphones and useless controller that really pisses me off.

      What they try to build is some sort of Matrix while what everyone actually wants are just head-tracked 3d goggles to play plane sims in.

    9. Re:Engineering is expensive by ArsonSmith · · Score: 1

      It's difficult not to rant and rave about it, but I will say you should give it a try. GearVR isn't even really game focused. It does have a lot of games but has much more passive content that is pretty amazing. I've had mine since Feb and I still feel like I'm participating in the future.

      --
      Paying taxes to buy civilization is like paying a hooker to buy love.
    10. Re:Engineering is expensive by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I'll see if I can get my hands on one. I'll quite likely buy one to play with, at any rate. If I don't like it then I have a kid who mows my lawn, shovels, and what not. I've turned him into quite a geek and he graduates this year. I'll give it to him if I don't like it. I treat him pretty well, I gave him a car he admired and am going to send him to trade school so he'll get a kick out of me "playing with a kids toy" or similar. However, little does he know - though I've tried to explain, I'm still, very much, a child.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  3. No technical details. by leuk_he · · Score: 1

    "added a lot of technology " but fails to mention what they added. Yup lenses. Expensive display. "sensors". Yes, and a lot of small parts add up quickly. If you need to add a high end pc as well, they better heve some steaming content!

  4. Maybe it's not that sinister by rmdingler · · Score: 1

    Perhaps it's just one of those inflation controversies?

    --
    Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

    Ernest Hemingway

  5. Re:Dead on Arrival by allcoolnameswheretak · · Score: 1

    Depends on the game and the graphics settings. You could easily run a game with Lawnmower Man style graphics with a mid range card in 120FPS on each eye.
    I think VR can be very interesting even without the super fancy hyper realistic graphics of the latest generaton games.

  6. Just wait for the self-pleasure applications. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Like with most technology, VR will become a success thanks to how it can help improve self-pleasure.

    The digital tablet, the smart phone, the World Wide Web, the PC, the VCR, cable/satellite television, the telephone, ham radio, and even the printing press became popular, despite being expensive technologies in their early days, because they could deliver erotica in one form or another to people, who then used it to arouse and stimulate themselves while they were self-pleasuring (aka masturbating).

    VR has real potential here. Take your fantasy, for example. Although you're white, you've always wished that you had a large, black member to play with. When you're wearing VR goggles, they could give you the perception that the cock you're fondling is darker, thicker, and about three times as big as it actually is.

    Expand these possibilities to all genital fondlers and all of their fantasies, and suddenly this technology starts looking better and better, even if it is expensive in the near term. The early, passionate adopters will help advance the state of the art, and soon enough this technology will come down in cost, while increasing significantly in terms of its feature set.

    You'll feel like a real dork, I hope, in three or four years when VR headsets retail for less than $100, and have an FPS rate over 1000.

    1. Re:Just wait for the self-pleasure applications. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      Video phones in the 80s would have been awful, the bandwidth wasn't there to support it. Skype video however is extremely popular now for people to communicate with family and friends while traveling.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    2. Re:Just wait for the self-pleasure applications. by Falos · · Score: 1

      IF it becomes a success it will be thanks to ero. The same statement applies to 3D printing, to a lesser degree.

      The tech is already here, if nascent. However, like printed sex toys the scene is fragmented and niche, nurtured by open-source/indies but only to the limited degree they can. To go critical, there will need to be big players to drive standardization and adoption. Then the upwards spiral will kick in, as hype drives content/development which drives hype.

      And like the Internet, going big time means side perks from the new technology, like virtual museum tours or whatever.

      >Take your fantasy, for example
      I'm anticipating growth in motion capture. Puppetry of humans ala porn studio is all well and good, but puppetry of data, of 1's and 0's has wide possibilities - wider than whatever single example you just thought of.

      Unfortunately it takes too much work to properly emulate living activity. The process can be hastened by use of canned scripts and assemblies and libraries, but instead of bloat and lag like with overabstracted code, you get uncanny valley.

      So, again, I anticipate growth in motion capture. And whoever pegs real-time motion capture is going to be rich.

  7. Re:Dead on Arrival by Kartu · · Score: 3, Interesting

    As a person who actually tried it (albeit preview version): you can get sick no matter the FPS depending on what is being shown to you AND your genetics.

    You don't need 4k $ PC to get high enough FPS, another way is to have slightly simpler scene, no problem. And if you think consoles (Sony has something between AMD 7850-7870 in it) check out this demo (real time rendering):
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    I wouldn't bet on OR, though. (offtopic: a real shame how kickstarter backers won't get anything from FB deal)
    If anyone, Sony, which YEARS AGO released wearable TV (HMZ series) is working on project Morpheus and has helluva experience in gaming/controllers area, will do that.

    On pricing side of things, Sony's rep once said it would cost "as console", so 350$-ish area.

  8. Oops! by Culture20 · · Score: 1

    You just charged $5 for the perfect glass of lemonade. Your total profits for the week are down. Would you like to alter your lemonade recipe and pricing scheme?

    1. Re: Oops! by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      When life hands you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back.

    2. Re:Oops! by belthize · · Score: 1

      No need, just make it up on volume the following week.

    3. Re: Oops! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      When life hands you lemons, it's time for a Gin and Tonic!

    4. Re:Oops! by Overzeetop · · Score: 1

      The problem is that you've spent $50,000 on lemonade taste testing and recipe development. Making a $5 glass of lemonade using a recipe which uses $0.35 of raw materials instead of $0.60 isn't going to allow you to make a bigger profit if you have to sell it for $4.75 or less.

      They have two plans:
      1) Sell their VR headsets for $500 and pray they sell enough
      2) Declare bankruptcy, buy the tech back at liquidation, and start a new company selling the same headset for $200

      Note: this is how golf courses get built. It generally takes two developers to go bankrupt before a golf course can turn a profit.

      --
      Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
    5. Re: Oops! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      And if life gives you lemonade, make lemons out of it, and life will be like "Whhhhhaaaaaat?"

    6. Re: Oops! by hackwrench · · Score: 1

      Life usually says "you're not trying hard enough, anybody can make lemonade out of lemons."
      https://www.youtube.com/result...

  9. Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I've been a huge supporter of Oculus since the Kickstarter. When people complained about the Facebook buyout, I tried to point out that a major player in the tech industry (like them or not, they are a major player) just dropped a massive investment in VR. When people complained about how long it was taking, I argued that doing something like this, and doing it well, has to take time - an inferior product could be a major issue for VR adoption. When they balked at releasing specs, I reminded myself that it's probably best, they wanted to make sure they had it right before they committed to something.

    My first doubts started when they finally released the specs. I was really hoping for a 4K screen. After all the time and money, it seemed logical - come out of the gate with something really great or stay home. Sure, 4K isn't necessary, but there are applications for VR that would really benefit from it. Game will be the vehicle that carries the initial adoption of VR, but there are a ton of real-world applications waiting to be discovered. Personally, I want to throw out my monitors and use a VR headset to create a virtual workspace. But, anything less than 4K isn't going to give me the detail I need to write code on a virtual monitor "floating" a few feet in front of me.

    My next doubts came when I started looking at the amount of "executives" and "directors" and people who stand up and do a lot of talking. I've noticed a trend (it's not new, it's always been there, I just finally noticed) - the more talking heads you have in a company, the longer, more expensive, more feature bloated (and never the features we actually want), more disappointing a product becomes. All these people swooped in and promptly buried something really cool in all the typical corporate ("we're not corporate, man! we're a startup that just happens to look like a bloated corporate monstrosity) BS.

    Then this. After all the talk keeping it affordable, then they pull this crap.

    I get that things add up, but I'll put this in perspective - I work for a company that is supplying them, and I know what we're charging (very low piece prices, and we're expensive compared to our competitors that do larger volumes). I also have access to price sheets from the kinds of suppliers that they're working with. Let's put it this way - there's no legitimate reason that they can't make a 4K rift with all the sensors they have, sell it for $200-$250, and still make a profit. So, either they've gotten a little top-heavy in the salary department, or they're getting greedy. Or both.

    Either way, I'm done offering my (measly, not-reall-worth-much) support. My money is on Valve now (we're supplying them too, I've gotten to see some pretty cool stuff)

    1. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

      I was really hoping for a 4K screen

      Wait, so you wanted the Oculus headset to release with a $3K pricetag? And that is probably a huge underestimate, is it even possible with current tech to shrink 4K down into an 1"x1" screen?

      Personally, I want to throw out my monitors and use a VR headset to create a virtual workspace.

      Ohhhh. Well you could of just told us your're an idiot upfront and saved us the effort of reading your opinion.

      --
      Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
    2. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      there's no legitimate reason that they can't make a 4K rift with all the sensors they have, sell it for $200-$250, and still make a profit

      You are nuts. 4K screens at those sizes would be extremely costly. They don't exist, they'd have to get someone to develop them and they'd want to recoup the R&D costs. Even the insane 4K screens Sony is putting in their new smart phones are much too big, and the pixels there are already TINY.

    3. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by Redbaran · · Score: 2

      Then this. After all the talk keeping it affordable, then they pull this crap.

      You've come an awful long way to be discouraged by something that still costs significantly less than the phones that most people buy yearly. Look at what people spend on other components and this still isn't out of line for what you get. I bet they could have charged $500 and still sold tons of units.

    4. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by axedog · · Score: 1

      4K screens at those sizes would be extremely costly. They don't exist,

      Even the insane 4K screens Sony is putting in their new smart phones are much too big, and the pixels there are already TINY.

      You said it yourself - they do exist! The rift screen is a phone, and 4K phones exist.

      --
      Sent from my Tianhe-2 (MilkyWay-2).
    5. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by rahvin112 · · Score: 1

      You'd need a 4k screen for each eye. On top of that there are very few graphics cards capable of rendering even lower end graphics at 4k. The top of the line nVidia card can only do it with a bunch of the rendering options kicked down to low and medium. People won't be very impressed with VR if they have to make the game look like 2000 era game to make it playable.

      You are deranged to suggest that 4k is achievable.

    6. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by Spy+Handler · · Score: 1

      there's no legitimate reason that they can't make a 4K rift with all the sensors they have, sell it for $200-$250, and still make a profit.

      You do realize that if they made it 4k, you would need a $1500 video card just to be able to use it?

      Even the current specs require a pretty damn beefy graphic card.

    7. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by WaffleMonster · · Score: 2

      I get that things add up, but I'll put this in perspective - I work for a company that is supplying them, and I know what we're charging (very low piece prices, and we're expensive compared to our competitors that do larger volumes). I also have access to price sheets from the kinds of suppliers that they're working with. Let's put it this way - there's no legitimate reason that they can't make a 4K rift with all the sensors they have, sell it for $200-$250, and still make a profit. So, either they've gotten a little top-heavy in the salary department, or they're getting greedy. Or both.

      My understanding one of the practical limiting factor is HDMI 1.3... there simply isn't an interface you can currently physically plug into that will drive a 4k display at 90hz even if you had a cheap GPU that could drive it.

    8. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

      Even the insane 4K screens Sony is putting in their new smart phones are much too big, and the pixels there are already TINY.

      You said it yourself - they do exist! The rift screen is a phone, and 4K phones exist.

      DK2 is a phone screen, CV1 display is customized for VR with much higher fill factor.

    9. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by bongey · · Score: 1

      700 years of making glasses: no one has made the mistake making the frame of fabric.
      Wouldn't put your Oculus CV1 in the clothes washer when it gets dirty.
      Predicting someone will be canned for the decision and the CV2 the fabric will be gone.

    10. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by Anguirel · · Score: 1

      Hmm. I wonder what that strap holding my safety goggles on was, then... Weird, I could have sworn is was an elastic fabric, with some fabric-style padding around the face.

      --
      ~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
      QA: The art of telling someone that their baby is ugly without getting punched.
    11. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by bongey · · Score: 1

      You do realize the frame and strap are different parts? No real issues putting safety goggles through the wash, they will still work as safety googles afterwards.

    12. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by Anguirel · · Score: 1

      Yes, but if you really meant the frame, then I don't see the relevance of your post. The frame is plastic and metal. It's a solid chunk. It is definitely not fabric. There might be some edging that is foam or fabric in the final design - however, for masks and helmets that's not uncommon and is pretty easy to clean by hand. Maybe it'll even be a modular part that can be replaced easily (that'd be best - also allow for more custom fits with different size foam pads, similar to bike helmets), but I have no idea, I've only gotten to poke at a DK1 briefly.

      --
      ~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
      QA: The art of telling someone that their baby is ugly without getting punched.
    13. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by bongey · · Score: 1

      The CV1 frame is made fabric. An entire presentation at oculus connect 2 was spent bragging about how they made the frame of fabric. Fabric just like your shirt, Oculus had pictures of shirts in the presentation. I have demoed the CV1 multiple times, it is fabric just like your shirt but no way to clean it like your shirt. The back of the fabric is harden using some kind of epoxy. You can read more about it here http://www.digitaltrends.com/c... .
      I really hope they abandon the idea or at least coat with Teflon.

    14. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by Anguirel · · Score: 1

      Ok, I think you're taking the "fabric" part in there a little too seriously.

      First: Fabric hardened with epoxy is no longer fabric. It's essentially plastic with fiber for stability. For example, a plaster medical cast is made that way. Fabric (a bandage), is dipped in an epoxy (plaster), and then wrapped around your arm. After it hardens, I wouldn't call a cast a "frame made of fabric", although technically that might be what it is.

      So let's look at what the article you linked says... Internals secured by fabrics? Sure. Exterior covered by fabric? Yep. Frame made of fabric? No, not it is not, not even in that article. Also a "specific material that required a specific company to make it" doesn't sound like it's just some simple cotton weave. Goretex, kevlar mesh, and even fiberglass can be considered "fabric", but they're nothing like my shirt, and would have very different cleaning requirements.

      --
      ~Anguirel (lit. Living Star-Iron)
      QA: The art of telling someone that their baby is ugly without getting punched.
    15. Re:Case study on how to blow a great oppurtunity by bongey · · Score: 1

      No the exterior is soft type of fabric and isn't removable, they are doing it for comfort and breathability . The fabric is semi-transparent to allow light and sound to pass through it(the CV1 has microphones in it). I demoed the current prototype and it was very easily to get dirty. I was really confused like you when I first held it. I thought the fabric was a removable soft cover when it is not. The same design goal allowing the fabric to be semi-transparent will be a great attractor for dirt. I hope the final product is a little more dirt resistant. Oculus even said the first time they wrap/put together the first CV1 it took more than hour just for fabric frame.
      My day job is the vr lead at my company. Right now we are switching to the Vive after mainly using the oculus for the last 2 years. I have one Vive dev kit at work. The Vive is just a better headset than the CV1, without question. The Valve controller track much better than the touch controllers, and if you have big hands you SOL with the touch controllers.

  10. Re:Dead on Arrival by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    Yeah man, if I listen to music played though cables that aren't oxygen-free and connectors that aren't gold-plated, it gives me a splitting headache too.

  11. Profit is good by Iamthecheese · · Score: 1

    Why should a company have to explain this at all? For things that aren't a public good it's morally a company's right to charge what the market will bear. Obviously charging $30 for a surgical mask after 9/11 or $750 for an AIDS pill that costs $1 to make is immoral, but we're talking about a new, innovative product used for entertainment. They don't owe it to the public to charge as little as possible.

    If another company can make one just as good for a cheaper price, that's awesome. Until then this is a luxury item with the price of a luxury item and that's okay.

    --
    If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
  12. Re:120 fps is for cows. by Tx · · Score: 2

    For once, you are 100% on topic.

    --
    Oh no... it's the future.
  13. No, just limited audience by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 4, Insightful
    No wonder you're posting anonymously.

    First off, games that are optimized for pure eye candy strain current cards, yes. But you don't have to have teh bezt pozzible grafix for everything. Take Alien: Isolation - looked really good, but ran at excellent framerates even on older cards. And even has some vr support. Tradeoffs can be made to crank framerate, and not horrible tradeoffs. I can handle 2010 graphics on VR, it's not like those games looked bad.

    And no, a $4000 PC isn't necessary. The official specs are more like $1K these days. In fact, definitely $1K.

    And no, 120fps/eye isn't necessary. You need low latency, definitely, but not that low. The DK2 peaks at 76fps, and yet few people report sickness at that rate.

    --
    PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
    1. Re:No, just limited audience by Tomsk70 · · Score: 2

      Elite Dangerous all but laughed at the 290 we were running it on. A 980 may have been overkill, but it certainly does the job.

      With the DK2, 75Hz has produced motion-sickness for us on the odd demo - and not just rollercoasters or other fast moving experiences.

      We've also had several friends experiencing the same thing when having a go, so I'll be happy with anything over 90fps.

    2. Re:No, just limited audience by Dr.+Manhattan · · Score: 1
      If it's specific demos that produce nausea, but not the general case, I'd bet that the demos themselves have problems keeping up. Especially for some people, even if the average frame right is high, a few inconsistent dips would be enough to disturb equilibrium.

      That said... every single trait of humans is on some kind of bell curve. There may well be people who need 120fps to avoid 'vr sickness', but they'll be a few standard deviations from the mean.

      --
      PHEM - party like it's 1997-2003!
    3. Re:No, just limited audience by Tomsk70 · · Score: 1

      Agreed - I should have mentioned that with regards to the original comment, anyone that thinks VR is dead blatantly hasn't had a go on it.

      It really is that good :-)

    4. Re:No, just limited audience by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 1

      ZOMG VR headset brand Y makes people barf!

      That's what makes the effort worth it, regardless of how few actually feel it.

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    5. Re:No, just limited audience by Coren22 · · Score: 1

      I can't wait to play Elite on a VR headset. It would improve many aspects of the game.

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  14. Re:Dead on Arrival by ThePyro · · Score: 4, Informative

    Input lag. If you move your head but the screen doesn't update the view until 1/60th of a second later then apparently that causes some (all?) people to feel motion sickness. But reducing the lag to 1/120th of a second alleviates the symptoms.

    I would definitely trust Occulus's engineers on this one. They've actually tested these things and they'd have no reason to make things more difficult on themselves (by requiring higher refresh rates) unless it was a genuine issue affecting potential customers.

  15. The key by willworkforbeer · · Score: 1

    Content / Experience. Go back to the early flip phone days and ask if anyone could ever see paying $700 for a mobile phone (!). They would have you committed (or give you millions in VC money, because, insanity). "Surely not more than a few thousand die-hard fanboys will shell out that kind of money for a phone"

    The content / experience has helped drive mobile phones to be valued so highly, and VR will likewise be dependent. If it becomes the Must See TV of 2017 then all projections are out the window. And there are a lot of content creators anxious to get in early. Many app developers, meet many VR experience developers.

    --
    Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
    1. Re:The key by willworkforbeer · · Score: 1

      Motorola brick, not a flip phone. And you ignored the boring part where I lazily restated the obvious 'content is king'. SO much to criticize. I mean, you had one job...

      --
      Pretending this is my office full of bitter coworkers..
  16. Re:Dead on Arrival by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

    I agree. Also, if people will shell out $700 for the iPhone, there will be plenty of buyers for a VR headset. Even just for watching movies it would probably be a better experience than trying to watch movies on a small monitor. The games don't have to be lifelike to be fun.

    --

    Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
  17. Re:Dead on Arrival by ITRambo · · Score: 1

    FYI: Oxygen free copper cables are quite cheap and commonly used for home wiring.

  18. Re:Dead on Arrival by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

    VR is sort of like 3D movies and TV. Every generation or so it pops up again, everyone gets all excited about it, products are released that either disappoint or don't sell well, it never really catches on, and then it goes back to hibernation for another generation or so.

    Don't get me wrong, I *hope* it succeeds this time. But if it's going to, companies need to get some actual consumer products on the shelves. And they need to be:

    1) Consumer priced (not over $1,000 total)
    2) Relatively easy to use
    3) On mainstream store shelves
    4) Available with demos so people can actually see for themselves what all the hype is about

    So far, there has been years of hype, but only one actual consumer product (the Samsung Gear). And even the gear requires a wonky paired cellphone (a very particular cellphone) setup, and it's far from the shelves of most Walmarts and Best Buys. I'm not even sure it's on the shelves at most cellphone stores.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  19. Re:Dead on Arrival by NotDrWho · · Score: 1

    Oh, and I forgot to add, of course:

    5) They need to have SOFTWARE. A VR headset isn't very useful if no one is making games or apps for it.

    --
    SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
  20. Doesn't matter by JohnFen · · Score: 2

    Oculus Rift was dead to me the instant Facebook bought it.

  21. Re:Dead on Arrival by Ayanami_R · · Score: 1

    I totally agree, the cost is simply too high. I put this in the same category as smartwatches, a nice toy, but not a must have, yet. When this is 100 - 150 I think then you'll start to see some movement.

    --
    "Science is the power of man"
  22. I wouldn't want it otherwise by jwymanm · · Score: 1

    I would not want my worst enemy to experience VR with a cheap headset. It takes precision, quality materials, high resolution low latency display panels, tracking, etc. I don't even know why this is a conversation at 350$ .. $850? Yes, then I would say hmm. But I'd almost expect even an $850 unit. You're talking about state of the art VR technology that you would not want to put down and it could transform how you even use computers. Let the knockoffs with poor quality components cater to the cheaper crowd. $350 folks! Not $3,500.. Geez

    1. Re:I wouldn't want it otherwise by JohnFen · · Score: 1

      You're talking about state of the art VR technology that you would not want to put down and it could transform how you even use computers.

      Eventually, maybe. But not in the near future. The only way that VR technology could transform how normal people use computers is if it can be done without a headset (or at least one that isn't much more massive that eyeglasses or a phone headset) and if it is inexpensive enough.

  23. Re:Dead on Arrival by Thud457 · · Score: 3, Funny

    blatant lies!

    Only the PC Master Race will get workable VR.
    VR is not for unwashed console peasants.

    All they deserve are 47fps bulimia simulators.

    --

    the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

  24. These threads always bring out the Luddites by yodleboy · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Why is it any thread about 3d or VR brings the party poopers out in force? We get it already. Really. You don't like 3d or VR. You got a tummy ache when you tried it or maybe your widdle noggin hurt. The idea is completely without merit and just a way to scam people out of their money, therefore no one should make or use these technologies. You point to the numerous failures to deliver, but decade after decade, someone tries to do it. It's just a matter of time before the killer app and the technology finally converge.

    If the product is not for you, move along. I swear, sometimes this place is just filled with people that seem to WANT things to fail.

  25. Re:Dead on Arrival by wisnoskij · · Score: 1

    It seems like there are some very simply ways of getting around that. If the issue is simply turning your head, then you just need to render slightly more screen area than you use. So you are ready for when the user turns their head, and you an update the displays without needing another render. You probably only need like 10% more area, and now you only need to render half as often.

    --
    Troll is not a replacement for I disagree.
  26. Re:Dead on Arrival by Vermifax · · Score: 1

    The eye is capable of detecting that much because of the way the images are generated.

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    Vermifax

    Logout
  27. Re:Dead on Arrival by Osgeld · · Score: 1

    it is mostly eye vs body, but on the monitor aspect yes you can see when things run above 60HZ, its most pronounced on fast camera pans, is it a huge deal? not on a single screen, 2 screens strapped to your eyeball? dunno

  28. Re:Dead on Arrival by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

    I think the main reason these things fail is because people, upon getting the 3D devices, realize that they're not actually what was wanted in the first place.

    What people think about when they hear "VR" is The Matrix (or something similar.) They kinda sorta recognize that a headset or 3DTV isn't going to give you that, but they go with it anyway and get excited because they think it might be a decent compromise between what can be done, and what's wanted.

    And then you find out that if "normal", flat, technology is 231 millionths of the way towards VR, that actually 3D goggles (or whatever) is only 237 millionths of the way towards VR. And it's clunky, and makes your eyes bleed.

    So they go back to the 2D devices, and we forget about 3D for another 20 years.

    --
    You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  29. VR is going to land with a thud by DrXym · · Score: 4, Insightful
    There is no denying VR sounds cool. In some cases it might actually be cool - I'm thinking particularly of racing / flight / space sims where you sit in a cockpit and the range of movements in game roughly correspond to real life - you sit in the game, you sit in real life, you have buttons and controls in the game, you have buttons and controls in real life.

    But for other kinds of game I really don't see the benefit. Yeah it could be used for first person shooters (for example) but then the game has to somehow reconcile a person running, spinning, jumping, aiming, shooting, standing, crouching and throwing stuff to someone in real life sat on a couch. It's likely that it will be extremely disorientating and puke inducing.

    And aside from FPSs what can we expect? Probably some lame jump scare horror games. Probably some table top style games. But nothing that particularly justifies the experience. I bet most games will work as well if not better in 2D.

    The strange part is there are at least 3 major efforts to do VR plus a number of smaller ones and they'll end up cannibalizing the market for what it is. It's going to be a bloodbath.

    1. Re:VR is going to land with a thud by xtal · · Score: 1

      This is game changing for simulators, and simulators are big business. Not just for games, either.

      Even if every other application flops, that one alone, even just in the safety training space, will be a billion dollar industry very quickly.

      A text readable experience also is game changing right away in a number of spaces. That and 3D mechanical design, or even 2D design for things like PCBs.

      I actually think FPS games are the worst application. Maintaining orientation is probably impossible.

      --
      ..don't panic
    2. Re:VR is going to land with a thud by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 1

      There is no denying VR sounds cool. In some cases it might actually be cool - I'm thinking particularly of racing / flight / space sims where you sit in a cockpit and the range of movements in game roughly correspond to real life - you sit in the game, you sit in real life, you have buttons and controls in the game, you have buttons and controls in real life.

      But for other kinds of game I really don't see the benefit. Yeah it could be used for first person shooters (for example) but then the game has to somehow reconcile a person running, spinning, jumping, aiming, shooting, standing, crouching and throwing stuff to someone in real life sat on a couch. It's likely that it will be extremely disorientating and puke inducing.

      And aside from FPSs what can we expect? Probably some lame jump scare horror games. Probably some table top style games. But nothing that particularly justifies the experience. I bet most games will work as well if not better in 2D.

      I expect you're right about cockpit games, and I'd add giant robot cockpits to your list. They will work and work very well, and that might be enough to drive a major market.

      I also agree that FPSs that are anything like modern FPSs just aren't going to work. There may be FPSs, but it will be like Rainbow Six with the realism turned up to 11, otherwise they will make you sick.

      You left out a couple of major categories though.

      God games? AWESOME in VR. You control the view, and you don't have to pan very fast across the map if you don't want to. You're looking down at the little buildings and little people doing your bidding. It should work quite well.

      RTSs, same thing, though possibly with faster map motion that might not work for some people.

      Many styles of MMOs should also work great in VR, especially first person MMOs. Third person should be fine too, and much like the god game/RTSs as far as experience is concerned.

      There's a pretty large market, even of established categories. Undoubtedly there are significant adjustments required in terms of rendering and user interface, but all of that should be possible.

      What's most interesting is what will be invented because it's possible in VR and just can't be done on a flat screen that doesn't convey a stereoscopic image. Nobody knows what that might be. It will take a lot more units in a lot more hands to find out. Oculus Rift may make that possible, and considering this price, it will probably happen. People easily spend that much on a new monitor or new TV, so why wouldn't they spend it on a Rift? It's another display device, like the others.

    3. Re:VR is going to land with a thud by chihowa · · Score: 1

      Yeah it could be used for first person shooters (for example) but then the game has to somehow reconcile a person running, spinning, jumping, aiming, shooting, standing, crouching and throwing stuff to someone in real life sat on a couch. It's likely that it will be extremely disorientating and puke inducing.

      I agree that it may be better suited for cockpit-style games, but why would the FPS mechanics necessarily make anybody sick? When playing an FPS on a flat screen, you're still "running, spinning, jumping, aiming, shooting, standing, crouching and throwing stuff" in game, while really just sitting on a couch. Even worse, turning your head in real life has no effect on the game viewport, which is instead turned with buttons while your head remains stationary. If that doesn't make people sick, I don't see why improving the player-avatar feedback would make it worse.

      --
      If you want a vision of the future, imagine a youtube comments section scrolling - forever.
    4. Re:VR is going to land with a thud by DrXym · · Score: 1
      I play Stumovik Cliffs of Dover which has some amazing cockpit models and I can't help but think what it would be like if I was actually looking around with my head instead of with some stupid hat control. But sims are a niche. Not everyone likes flying planes around (or trains, trucks, tractors etc.). And even of those that do, only a fraction stump up for a stick let alone a peripheral costing $350 and requiring high end hardware.

      So I don't see that sims would save the tech. Nor do I expect Oculus would be happy if it launches with great fanfare and ends up being mostly used by someone driving a tractor on a virtual farm.

    5. Re:VR is going to land with a thud by Toshito · · Score: 1

      VR is a lot like 3D movies... it get reinvented every 20 years and flops every time.

      When I went to the very last World of Commodore in Toronto, circa 1993, VR was everywhere, it was the hottest subject going on in the Amiga community. I still have some flyers somewhere...

      At the time I tought that we would have VR headsets in our homes in a matter of 2 or 3 years, and yet 22 years after we still don't have any practical VR.

      Sadly, I don't think we'll have Holodecks or Better than Life headbands in my lifetime.

      --
      Try it! Library of Babel
  30. Re:Dead on Arrival by Crowd+Computing · · Score: 1

    How about motion blur? Won't that also reduce the problem without necessarily increasing the processing complexity?

  31. Re:Dead on Arrival - Voodoo 3D anyone? by WarlockD · · Score: 1

    Everyone said the same thing about the original Voodoo 3D card. But after the Voodoo 2 came out, even graphic card venders were jumping on the bandwagon. Yea this is going to be expensive, but if its good enough to see the future thats coming, it will be enough to jump start VR even at that price point.

  32. Re:Dead on Arrival by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Are your friends insects?

    --
    No sig today...
  33. Re:Dead on Arrival by Joce640k · · Score: 2

    VR is dead, sorry. Early adopters might pay 350$ for the headset, if only they have the necessary 4000$ PC to run it. This thing is not going to be usable on a a 300$ PC/Console anytime soon. It requires 120fps per eye to not make people sick. Current mid-range video cards don't even do 60fps on a single card. So either people are going to get a poor experience because they have poor hardware, or they're going to get a visit to the hospital because the headset physically makes them sick if they make it run at anything less than 120fps.

    Nope. You only need to update the headset at 120fps, not the rendered image. You can re-use/distort the same rendered image multiple times to keep the headset happy while you render the next one. It would only take a fraction of the graphics card's power to do that.

    With this technique even a 30Hz scene update rate would be fine.

    --
    No sig today...
  34. Re:Dead on Arrival by Guspaz · · Score: 2

    Motion blur in VR makes you sick to your stomach and makes it really hard to see what's going on. The DK1 suffered from lots of motion blur, and it was very unpleasant. The DK2 added a low-persistence display (the OLEDs turn off while the pixels are changing, and only stay on a shorter amount of time, tricking your brain into reduced perceived motion blur) and it was a huge improvement.

  35. Re:Dead on Arrival by Guspaz · · Score: 1

    Time warp helps, but the more frames you have to interpolate, the worse the inconsistencies are. Using it to quadruple the framerate is not going to fly, because as your head moves, your perspective shifts, and time warp can't account for changes in perspective. There's also the issue that time warp does nothing for the game world itself, and your view moving around at 120Hz while everything in the world is moving at 30Hz is not exactly ideal either.

  36. Re:Dead on Arrival by tnk1 · · Score: 1

    Nah... you obviously either never used the Rift headset or are too sensitive and frail... like a delicate flower

    So their marketing strategy will be, "If you can't use this, you are a girly man?"

    Will we they be resurrecting Hans and Franz as spokespeople?

  37. Re:Dead on Arrival by del_diablo · · Score: 1

    Motion blur still won't change the fact your input is laggy, and there are performance issues.
    If your turn your head, and the brain spots that the turning does not match what you see, there is a chance you get a headache right there after 2-3 goes at it.
    Motion blur on the other hand only smooths your perception of how "neat" the turning was. It doesn't change that your head spotted the 1-2 frames of delay, and you now get sea sickness.

  38. Re:Dead on Arrival by hllclmbr · · Score: 1

    Occulus will run on a $1200 computer, if one shops smartly.

  39. Re:Dead on Arrival by smallfries · · Score: 1

    Why do they deserve 47fps, all it would do is ruin the cinematic feel: the human eye cannot perceive over 24fps anyway.

    --
    Slashdot: where don knuth is an idiot because he cant grasp the awesome power of php
  40. Tested a demo Oculus by iotaborg · · Score: 3, Interesting

    At work they had an Oculus VR demo this past week and I got the chance to test one (I don't know the full specs of that particular unit). My experience and comments from the 5 min demo:

    - Very first thing I noticed when I wore the headset was that the resolution seemed low, and the screen wasn't that bright.
    - I had no control over the motion of the demo; as a result during panning, I could feel a twinge of motion sickness. Don't know what the framerate/latency was.
    - It is a bit disconcerting to look at your virtual self, and while you move your real legs/arms, you don't see your virtual legs/arm move.
    - The overall experience is very interesting and I think VR could be quite an enjoyable entertainment medium, but it definitely needs some work.

    1. Re:Tested a demo Oculus by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      I've got my DK2 working with a kinect.

      It's not _that_ much better when your virtual self does move.

      Biggest problem I've got is Unity won't let me disable motion tracking with the build in VR support. So the viewpoint won't stay at the eyes.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  41. Re:Dead on Arrival by spire3661 · · Score: 1

    Guess what, not all tech needs to be all things to all people. This reminds me of the last few decades of 'PC gaming is dead because consoles are cheap'. The irony is that VR is what is pushing PC way beyond the consoles. The floor for VR is 1440p @ 90 HZ, we should be able to do that with sub-$500 rendering hardware in a few years. Right now a fully capable VR rig including headset and laser tracking is looking to land around $1500. Its only going to get cheaper over time.

    --
    Good-bye
  42. Re:Dead on Arrival by AdamThor · · Score: 1

    "I agree. Also, if people will shell out $700 for the iPhone, there will be plenty of buyers for a VR headset."

    Ah, here is the central point. Charge what the market will bear! Everyone has been dreaming of working VR for 30 years now. The pent up demand it outrageous. If you hear a price that makes sense, it's too low.

    --
    -- "Oh. This guy again."
  43. VR - prices and apps by UglyMike · · Score: 1

    Ok. So it's going to be more than $350. Personally, I found it a pretty low price to start with. Now the question is how much more? $400? $500? $750? Everything up to $500 would be ok, I guess. If you are willing to spend $350, then $500 isn't a real dealbreaker. Anything more than that and it's a different ball game. Of course, there is always the HTC Vive ( Playstation VR as well, but I'm not a console person.) so we can always see what those will cost. As for games, enough people have said that sims will be very nice with this ( Space, car, plane,...) it's a best fit were games are concerned. Some immersive horror games à la Alien: Isolation will work as well. But nothing with harsh, sudden movement like the FPSes we know today. I'm sure they'll come up with some variation of it though... For me, immersive landscapes would be nice as well. Something like the aquarium simulators, but you're sitting right in them. Oceans, lakes, great Barrier Reef, but also a pleasing meadow. You're sitting by the tree line, there are rabbits playing around your feet, squirels coming up to you, some deer pass a couple of dozen feet from where you are, a bear lumbers towards you, has a sniff and crashes in the underbrush behind you etc. Old peoples homes would be ideal for those experiences. Same with guided tours of famous places. More Grand Canyon than the Louvre because detail will be less then current crop of games at the start. And that is just the first version. Once we get a kinect-like camera on it so our hands/arms/bodies will be imported in the game at the same time enabling a form of AR, once we go wireless, higher resolution, eye-tracking for better detail i'm pretty confident ( well, ok, I hope....) that in 5 years we won't be able to imagine entertainment/ infotainment/edutainment without it.

  44. Re:Dead on Arrival by WaffleMonster · · Score: 1

    VR is dead, sorry. Early adopters might pay 350$ for the headset, if only they have the necessary 4000$ PC to run it.

    There are a number of 'Oculus ready' PCs advertised on the Oculus website for 1k.

    This thing is not going to be usable on a a 300$ PC/Console anytime soon.

    Your Ignorance of PC gaming industry is amusing.

    It requires 120fps per eye to not make people sick.

    Lots of things make people sick in VR. Lag, moving cameras, change in rate of motion, change in direction without commensurate forces felt in real life. For Oculus the target is 90fps because this matches the refresh rate of the display. Any disparity will make the experience suck. There are schemes like timewarp that try and make up for minor performance dips but you really need to sustain 90fps.

    For most part sickness is a problem which more than anything has to be worked around in software... Sitting in cockpits of airplanes, space ships and race cars are probably going to be sort of games that work the best in VR for quite some time.

    Current mid-range video cards don't even do 60fps on a single card.

    Oculus requires a high end card. 90fps or bust.

  45. Re:Dead on Arrival by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 1

    That indeed is the elephant in the room:

    * Nausea

    There is a HUGE disconnect between with what your eyes are telling your brain and what your ears are. Your brain is getting mixed messages. We've been able to somewhat "get over" it in 2D monitors because of lack of immersion. I've been gaming since the early 80's and *never* get motion sickness. I do with VR. :-/ A certain percentage of the population gets sick on boats. That's not a great "strength" for VR.

    I think it is way too early to write VR off. (I tend to as well but I also want to wait-and-see.) There are some fantastic *niche* markets.

    Want to get over your fear of heights? Parachuting? Sky diving? Take a VR course! :-)

    Apparently Tim Sweeney is betting the farm on VR

    We'll probably see more hologram phone hacks like this in the meantime which is WAY more accessible.

  46. Re:Dead on Arrival by Agent0013 · · Score: 1

    This would be like the small rooms with projections on the walls, floor, and ceiling often called a "cave". You do lose the parallax from having a different image for each eye with the helmet or cave approach.

    --

    -- ssoorrrryy,, dduupplleexx sswwiittcchh oonn.. -Quote found on actual fortune cookie.
  47. Re:Dead on Arrival by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Lack of humor detection detected.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  48. Re:Dead on Arrival by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    I'm not sure if he is actually using a VR headset, but he does mention he is using head tracking to look around the ship in that video.

    The software is there, many games support VR, unfortunately, the hardware is still so hard to find, or over priced.

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  49. Re:Dear rift by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    It's not the fixed focal distance.

    How do I know?

    I'm old. Old people basically have fixed focus eyes. My DK2 is just as capable of making me sick as my VFX1 was. It isn't really any better. The DK2 developers are just getting used to it, so whatever they work on seems to help.

    It's all about the content. Don't do descent in VR or you will puke, just like we did in Descent 2 in 1998.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  50. Uh.. VR is not dead, also more importantly.. by Joykiller · · Score: 1

    VR is not dead, and you guys are forgetting the most important thing. Vulkan/Dx12 Do you know what impact these bare metals will have with performance for VR?

  51. Re:Dead on Arrival by Joykiller · · Score: 1

    Vulkan/Dx12 is coming soon and that is going to have a HUGE impact on gaming. Thus making it less expensive and not requiring such a high end PC.

  52. Re:Dead on Arrival by GNious · · Score: 1

    Dunno - Oculus' people said 90 frames per sec, while the Anonymous Coward said 120, so clearly Oculus' engineers are talking out of their asses.

  53. Re:Lawnmower is for cows. by Falos · · Score: 1

    All cows are lawnmowers but not all lawnmowers are cows.
    TMYK~

  54. Occulus Rift Experience by DMJC · · Score: 1

    I've tried the Occulus Rift DK1, DK2, and Crystal Cove. I've also tried the Samsung GearVR. Here's my experience. DK2/Crystal/GearVR fixed the latency/movement issues. The problem is the resolution is too low. Now the Gear VR was the highest resolution headset. It is 2560x1440 so the resolution is 1280x1440 per eye. A 4K screen is 3840x2160 so 1920x2160 per eye. This resolution will be quite good, I don't think it will give you full presence however. But it will look a lot better than a 1990s DOS game. I suspect that VR will deliver presence at 7680x4320 aka 8K where each eye will have 3840x4320 pixels per eye. This is probably 2-3 years away, based on the current 4K screen technology. I'm not excited for the rift's release, but I don't think a flop would be fatal to VR. I do however think it's a bit premature to release it now. My guess is the early adopters are going to get burned, but the tech itself will be pretty good.

  55. launch date by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    consumer Rift headset, launching in Q1 2016

    i just don't think this will happen

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  56. Google Cardboard shows why by globaljustin · · Score: 1

    VR is "Dead on Arrival"

    It is DOA because the demand is mostly hype.

    Also, the technology is at a level where things are either too easy to copy (every other company could bring one to market quickly, most have VR prototypes now) -or- it is too expensive and requires too much adaptation to get anyone interested.

    Part of the hype comes from the sheer number of hobbyist/techies out there now willing to throw down on a Kickstarter for something like this. That's not good or bad that's just a fact...there are just more potential "early adopters" who will use things like Occulus on just a few games/applications after much tinkering and be happy.

    Google's Cardboard is good example at the zero sum economic forces making this whole "VR revolution" thing essentially 'DOA': https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    Thank you Dave Raggett
  57. Much more complicated by DrYak · · Score: 1

    why would you need 120fps per eye when the human eye isn't really capable of seeing that much?

    Actually it's much more complicated.
    Depending on several factor, humans might notice 120fps.
    (Mainly "dotted path" type of artefacts).

    (The situation is different than audiophile's obsession with 192KHz which CAN'T be heard)

    --
    "Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
  58. Re:Dear rift by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    Inexplicably, the new Descent will work with the DK2.

    Haven't tried it myself. My first/last cigar was 30+ years ago too. Some lessons you don't forget.

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  59. A New Thought - Light Motion Sickness Issue by lucien86 · · Score: 1

    Just reading through this SD I just thought of another big potential problem with these displays. We are talking about people wearing headsets that put fully 100% of their vision a few mm from video displays potentially for hours at a time. There must be considered the quality of the light that these displays emit - it needs a good spectrum but even more importantly it needs to be non-polarised. In short over-exposure to highly polarised light is a strong contender as one of the causes of 'sickness' people often get if they persistently use ordinary LCD displays too closely and for too long. - The same effect could be a prime cause of the 'motion sickness' that still seems to be associated with using VR for extended periods of more than a few minutes.

    A basic solution and researching it should be easy - do tests comparing displays using LED light, verses LCDs.
    (However even the light from most LEDs is still quite coherent and sometimes partly polarised.)
    A more complete & better experiment would be to extend the test to also include other plasma displays or even CRT types if they can be found or built. Both plasma displays and CRTs can solve partly the persistence issue using tuned phosphors.
    An even better further extension might be to include DLP mirror type projection displays - they avoid the polarization problem and can use incandescent lights that can produce extremely good colour temperatures, or even RGB lasers.. Even DLP’s using white LED light could be used as long as the light is produced indirectly by a white phosphor.

    Another Great potential Future Solution Brought to you by - Robert Lucien & Tech ONE Research.. :)

    --
    Below the speed of light Special Relativity is one of the most accurate theories in physics - above the speed of light..
  60. Re:Dead on Arrival by Immerman · · Score: 1

    Correction - the human *brain* is not capable of resolving *individual images* at that speed. Even 30FPS challenges it. However there is a LOT more to the visual system than image recognition. Motion detection for example happens at far higher speeds, and most people can easily tell the difference in fluidity between an animation at 60FPS and one at 100+FPS.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  61. Re:Dead on Arrival by alhead · · Score: 1

    There are separate images displayed to each eye. A wrap-around screen wouldn't be in 3D, because you wouldn't get the depth perception cues from parallax (as Agent0013 mentioned). You could get increased field of view though. However, a wrap-around screen with 3D glasses might be feasible. Still, if you want to do head tracking, so that you can lean around obstacles etc, you'd still need to update the screen quickly enough that you won't get sick.