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4 Calif. Students Arrested For Alleged Mass-Killing Plot
The New York Times reports that four high school students in the small California town of Tuolumne, about 120 miles east of San Francisco, have been arrested, but not yet charged, for planning an attack on their school, Summerville High School. According to the Times, three of the four were overheard discussing this plot, and a fourth conspirator was later identified. Their goal, according to Toulumne sheriff James Mele, was "to shoot and kill as many people as possible at the campus"; they had not however been able yet to obtain the weapons they wanted to carry out the attack. From NBC News' version of the story:
"Detectives located evidence verifying a plot to shoot staff and students at Summerville High School," Mele said. "The suspects' plan was very detailed in nature and included names of would-be victims, locations and the methods in which the plan was to be carried out."
I come here for geek/tech news. I read stuff like this on real news sites.
Even if they had the weapons, everyone at school would have been safe. The school was designated a gun-free zone. I'm pretty sure there's no way they could have gotten the guns past those "gun-free zone" signs.
Looks like a success for "see something, say something."
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
> why target defenseless school or college kids?
You answered your own question with the word defenseless.
And shortsightedness of youth. It's hard to see past your immediate problems. You not only see no future for yourself but you also can't see our comprehend the socio-economic causes for your misery. Only the most obvious ones are apparent to most folks, and that leaves the bullies. People love picking on nerds. Even teachers do it. We didn't stop bullies until the nerds started packing heat...
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I came in assuming this as well, but it looks like they confessed.
"The investigation has so far been based on interviews with the suspects, during which they gave a detailed confession, Sheriff Mele said."
Laws are a good thing when they punish the guilty and don't target the innocent. A law against murder only causes problems for murderers, and therefore isn't very controversial.
A law against owning certain types of firearms (a victimless crime) does not only target future killers, but also the 99% of owners who would never misuse them. You are talking tens of millions of people.
Additionally - if you are going to ignore the rule against murder, why would you care about firearms restrictions?
A law that criminals will probably ignore, and won't care about in the least (they will be dead or in jail for murder), but will put otherwise law-abiding people in jail, is a bad law.
I hope this explains the argument in more detail. 14/88, RaHoWa.
By promoting that teachers should be armed to protect the children? Employment wise, it was wise of you to post AC. Hopefully, you don't write code with that kind of logic.
But either way it is a win for the NRA. They love to see children die because it is so profitable for them. They make money coming and going.
No, you've got it backwards. It's the gun control lobby and the lefty nanny state types that love to see children die. Because that's just the sort of thing they leverage in order to get more power over you. "Never waste a good crists," remember? The control freaks LOVE this sort of thing.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Honestly I suspect a lot of nerds fantasized about doing things to their classmates of a violent nature. This subculture exists in-part because many of those who joined it were ostracized from others, and school as an artificial construct tends to force people that otherwise wouldn't associate to have to associate.
We'll probably never learn much about this case of any real meaning, but that the conspirators supposedly had a list, and that list as-reported contained the names of other students specifically, leads me to believe that the conspirators felt that they had been done injustice by these other students and that they felt they had no recourse beyond such a violent act. It could also be that there was never any serious intention to actually pull-off a spree killing, and that fantasizing about doing it was a way of blowing-off steam about how they felt.
My guess as to why they haven't been charged yet is that they're in that as minors without ready access to the implements needed to actually carry-out such a shooting it's difficult to know if there actually is anything to charge them with. Conspiracy generally requires an ability to carry out the ends of the conspiracy. People want to do harm to others, usually specific people and specific others, all of the time, but that doesn't mean that they're guilty of a crime because of a want.
Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
You tried to do your blame Obama bit
No, I'm not blaming Obama for what these kids wanted to do. I'm pointing out that his speech blaming the NRA for it was completely off base.
Even as the kids are dead you still tried to turn it political
You obviously didn't watch his speech. He came right out and said he thought the issue should be made political. His words. On the same day the students were killed. Try to get your rant at least aligned with current events and Obama's own words, OK?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
I think a sensible requirement for gun ownership would be that you can't live with your parents and you can't have an adolescent child living with you where you keep a gun. Because teens are idiots. If you're paying rent then you're responsible enough to have a gun, otherwise tough luck.
So you'd obviously be in favor of adults not being allowed to own cars if they have teenagers in the house, right? Because teenagers kill WAY more people with cars than they do with weapons of any kind.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Do you have something wrong with your brain?
No. Do you have a problem with people pointing out logical inconsistencies, mixed premises, and hypocrisy?
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
The reason for keeping weapons such as knives out of schools (or anywhere else) is to reduce the chance of fights escalating and becoming deadly.
While keeping knives and guns out of schools *might* reduce the chances of fights becoming deadly, it increases the number of fights overall.
Bullying happens. Subject certain kids to constant harassment with no recourse and no way out, and you get Columbine.
What are you proposing, teenager open carry in school to deter bullying?
Obviously, because that's the smart person's conclusion.
I would never consider addressing bullying by other means.
In comparison to letting teens carry weapons, all the other options seem kind of... silly?
(And for the record, why do I have to propose a solution anyway? Don't social scientists and psychologists read this board?)
When was the last time a teeneger planned a mass killing with a car, you master of logic, you? I especially like how you got modded up because people like what you're saying, rather than it making any kind of rational sense at all.
I'll lay money that you've never actually talked with any real people of that religion, and only have your conception of them based on what you see in the media.
Wrong
"The Left (and many moderates to give due credit) say "maybe we should do more to reign back these problems" and suggest a variety of possible solutions."
No, actually, they don't.
The changes they are proposing would, in no way, prevent the issues we are facing as a Nation. All they are proposing is violating the Rights of law-abiding citizens and placing them in a position where they cannot defend themselves and their loved ones, cannot enjoy the traditions and past-times they grew up with, and, for some, reduce their ability to provide food for their families.
When drunk driving became such a problem in this Country, groups were formed to try to educate the public on the dangers of driving under the influence. Other groups were formed to help people overcome addictions. Penalties for driving under the influence were increased, and new penalties/laws were created to try to address the problem.
But they did not try to ban cars. they did, briefly, try to ban alcohol, and we all know what a waste of time and money THAT turned out to be.
If you want to reduce "gun violence", start by addressing the causes that make people pick up a gun and do violence with it. Give the students who have been abused by their peers (you know; bullying) somewhere they can go to get the help they need to deal with the emotional turmoil caused by that abuse. increase the penalties for bullying. Have teachers that actually CARE about the students they are supposed to be taking care of.
Design programs to help kids get out of the gang life. Give them something to do instead of "hanging out" all the time.
And, of course, the number one cause of "gun violence" (how can it be violence if perpetrated on yourself I'll never know), reinstate and fund the various suicide help organizations! When someone feels so bad they are willing to take their own life they need help. Give them a place where they can get that help without feeling like they are being persecuted!
But stomping on the Rights of law-abiding citizens is SO much easier. It makes you feel good, without actually accomplishing anything except further dividing this Country.
Grow up, become a responsible adult, and start coming up with REAL workable solutions, not these knee-jerk stupid "ideas", and then we can talk.
must have been non-muslim kids... if it were angry and mentally unstable muslim kids, this would be a terrorist attack averted.
In this society, that is the important question.
I have personally used a firearm (happily, through brandishing, not having to actually shoot) to spare my wife and I from the ongoing actions of a very large, very crazy guy beating down our back door with a metal pipe. You would prefer that we fight him hand to hand and wait the 20 minutes it took for the police to show up. Why? Because you've never dealt with such a situation, lucky you.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
We have murder rates and mass shootings far beyond that of any other Western nation.
And if you were to remove from those stats the four municipalities in the US that have the most gang-related crime, the US murder rate would be fourth from the BOTTOM of the stats pile. And the four municipalities where all of that mayhem takes place? Some of the tightest gun control laws in the country, and the places are run by Democrats and have been for decades. Not to trouble you with facts or anything.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
In your mind, guns ARE the problem. Removing them from society, even though 99% of owners have never done anything wrong, is your magic fix for the problem.
The rest of us try to make you all see reason in that guns, like anything else humans have used to kill each other over our entire existence, are nothing more than tools. How they're used is solely up to the wielder of said tool. However, you seem to ignore this fact every single time some bat-shit-crazy individual goes out and shoots up a bus full of Nuns, or a schoolyard, a workplace, or whatever. It's the GUNS fault. Each and every time.
Yet ( and this is where your hypocrisy really shines ) anytime the shooting starts, what is the very first thing you do ?
You dial 911.
Which you know will do what ?
IT BRINGS A WHOLE LOT OF PEOPLE WITH GUNS TO THE SCENE. The relevant part of that sentence being " WITH GUNS ".
Don't even go down the path of " Well they're properly trained to use them " because we're not talking about the wielder are we ? We're talking about the tool. Remember, to you all, it's the gun. Not the person behind it.
So to all of you who seem to think guns are the problem and not the people wielding them, how do you justify calling the police for help ? Knowing they're going to be bringing lots of guns with them. Remember, to you all, it's not the people, it's without a doubt the GUN that's the problem which is why you want them all banned.
So, I have to ask. Which is it ?
Are guns really the problem or do you think it might just be guns in the hands of the wrong type of person that might be our issue here ? Because if you think it's ok to call the police ( who will be bringing lots of guns with them ) then you can't possibly deny that, in the hands of the right people, guns can actually save lives.
Afterthought: This will probably nuke my karma into oblivion but I don't really care. The folks who think banning something like a firearm will magically make everyone get along and the killings will stop just makes absolutely no sense to me. Mankind has been killing each other en masse since the dawn of time for various reasons using various tools. I don't see us stopping that behavior anytime soon unless we nuke each other into sub-atomic particles. The bright side of nuking everything would be the majority of your gun violence would stop :D
... what's to prevent more guns being imported disguised as routine cocaine shipments?