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Electoral System That Lessig Hopes To Reform Is Keeping Him Out of the Debate (usatoday.com)
schwit1 writes: Lessig has raised a million dollars, which is nothing to sneeze at, but he's being given the cold shoulder by the Democrats when it comes to participating in the debates. I think he's got a good argument for being included — he's certainly as serious a candidate as some of the others, and I'm hearing a lot about his campaign.
Why are they keeping Lessig out? According to Lessig, it's for the same reason he wants in: "My view is that if we can get this message [of reform] into the debate it would change the dynamics of this Democratic primary entirely. This issue framed in this way totally blows up the Democratic primary."
Hillary and Bernie, he says, are promising the moon to voters, but can't deliver. Lessig told me, "If I can get on that stage and say the rocket can't get off the ground, and we have to change this dynamic first," the narrative shifts in a way that the leading candidates can't address.
Why are they keeping Lessig out? According to Lessig, it's for the same reason he wants in: "My view is that if we can get this message [of reform] into the debate it would change the dynamics of this Democratic primary entirely. This issue framed in this way totally blows up the Democratic primary."
Hillary and Bernie, he says, are promising the moon to voters, but can't deliver. Lessig told me, "If I can get on that stage and say the rocket can't get off the ground, and we have to change this dynamic first," the narrative shifts in a way that the leading candidates can't address.
Oh my, someone told this gent there was going to be a primary race. Sorry, we've only got a coronation scheduled here.
This guy really does not understand politics. Besides, Bernie > him.
It doesn't matter whether he can get into the debates, not really. Just look at what happened to Dr. Paul. When the people with real power make that decision it sticks. Only the blessed are given any chance at all to win the primaries.
If video games influenced behavior the Pac Man generation would be eating pills and running away from their problems.
It's the Democrat Party and the media that is keeping him out of the debates. The Electoral System has nothing to do with it.
When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
It's about the number of votes and nothing else. His approach is not pulling in any, except from the fringe. That's why he's not in the debates. So the system is working in this case.
This is the first of many things that need to change.
Money needs to be out of politics. Buying office leads to plutarchy. not democracy.
For all the "what about my speech" people, you gain it not lose it.
In the current system only the wealthy have any real speech.
Yes, people vote, but there is no real voice, only selecting between awful choices presented by the powerful.
emt 377 emt 4
The Republicans are currently blowing up their establishment. It takes some balls to do that, especially if you're a politician. They're trying to shake things up and get the Old Guard to move on. This has come from the ground up over the past few election cycles and it appears to be working.
Why can't the Democrats do that same?
You are all Cows. Cows say MOOOOOOOOO. MOOOOOOOOOOOO! MOOOOOOOOOOOO! Mooooooooooo cows moooooooooo. mooo say the cows. YOU VOTER COWS!!!
by showing up as competitive without having a SuperPAC at all.
I don't see Lessig's referendum only strategy to be any more likely to come to pass than his previous let's build our own SuperPAC attempt. He could have actually ran for senator and had some impact from within the system. It would have also gotten him more of a podium for advocating for these changes.
Lessig has raised a million dollars, which is nothing to sneeze at
A million dollars is nothing. Sorry to break this to you but that's not even enough to be a serious contender in a lot of state level elections. A million dollars is a rounding error in current day presidential elections. Someone like Hillary Clinton can raise multiples of that in a single evening. $1 million might seem like a lot to some people but it really isn't.
but he's being given the cold shoulder by the Democrats when it comes to participating in the debates. I think he's got a good argument for being included — he's certainly as serious a candidate as some of the others, and I'm hearing a lot about his campaign.
No he really isn't a serious candidate at this point. Almost nobody knows who the guy is and he has (near as makes no difference) no money to buy recognition with. He's a political lightweight with essentially zero name recognition. I have nothing against the guy and I think he's got some interesting ideas but right now he is definitely not a serious candidate. He's basically a one issue guy who has offered to resign after fixing those issues (campaign finance, gerrymandering, voter access) which basically makes him a non-starter. Basically that means that even if he were successful (which he almost certainly wouldn't be) you'd be voting for his VP to be president and a new VP to be named later.
It should concern us all when a major reformer doesn't realize that both parties share a common Status Quo control.
His attempt was blocked by a rigged voice vote at the convention:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Lx2AXjlcRk
He won the voice call, but the chairman, simply planned to say "the ayes have it" regardless of the voice call, it was even written up on the teleprompter. It looks like the Democrats are heading exactly the same path. Big donations from rich people, corps run the show, voters kept out in the margins.
Can't have any of that democracy getting in the way.
Some would say that she could have avoided Obama exposing her corruption by not being corrupt in the first place.
Can a more complete or even thought out summary be posted?
For years I have believed even the local dog catcher must signal they are corruptible or they will not advance to the next step up the ladder let alone President. Corruption is endemic to politics.
You will not be heard in American Politics if you plan on rocking the boat.
Some would say that she could have avoided Obama exposing her corruption by not being corrupt in the first place.
Lol, stop with the crazy talk!!
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Have gnu, will travel.
Lessig is being kept out for the same reason the DNC is vehemently resisting having more debates: nothing shall put Hillary's candidacy at risk.
Would require a time machine, so no, not possible.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Lessig seems to think that people who have power will give it up willingly. Why, because "it's the right thing to do"? Ha, Lessig, tell us another funny one.
We're not going to get approval voting or any other method that satisifies the Condorcet criteria, because Duverger's Law, simply restated, ensures the power of the current political elite.
Lessig did some reasonable work with Creative Commons (even if CC0 is the only free license, CC is still successful). He should use those talents to try to educate people that the "Two Party" system is a cabal of political oligarchs who fleece the people by convincing them they have a choice when in reality there is only "fork over your money or something bad might happen".
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Sure, a political lightweight who's the only one with the intellectual courage to put his money where his mouth is and take on the the core political distortions from which most other political distortions flow.
Being right doesn't matter if you can't make a difference. He cannot and (probably) will not get elected, nor does he have a big enough voice to influence the campaign. Trump is an ass with nothing useful to say but he's an ass with a big enough wallet and enough name recognition to make himself heard.
Don't get me wrong, I actually agree with Mr. Lessig on the issues he's concerned about. But I don't think he's going to even make a ripple in this election much less actually affect the public debate in a meaningful way.
What corruption? The only leaks have suggested she might have miscategorized the security status of some emails, an administrative error not an issue of corruption.
When it comes to Hillary Clinton, you idiots will believe pretty much anything.
First, it's several hundred emails, at least.
Second, mishandling classified material is a FELONY, not an "administrative error".
Third, even if one accepts your patently risible characterization of "administrative error", how FUCKING TRUSTWORTHY DOES THAT MAKE HILLARY!? Yeah, NOT TRUSTWORTHY AT ALL and therefore unqualified to be President.
Finally, Hillary! has downright LIED multiple times regarding her email server - WHICH NEVER SHOULD HAVE EXISTED IN THE FIRST PLACE as it was an ILLEGAL METHOD TO CONDUCT GOVERNMENT BUSINESS WITHOUT CONSTITUTIONALLY PROPER CONGRESSIONAL AND LEGALLY-MANDATED FOIA OVERSIGHT.
Geez, you're one Thalidomide-brained moron of a shill.
...that's the party primary system. Political parties are not mentioned in the Constitution, and are not an official part of the electoral process.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
Help slay the Hildabeest! Mod down!
publicity upset that it will obtain less free publicity than anticipated.
that's passive aggressive bullshit.
The idea that there was no security risk here should be patently absurd to anyone reading slashdot.
Anyone else read it as "Hillary and Bernie, he says, are promising *to* moon..."?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
He is not in the debate because he has no support
http://www.realclearpolitics.c...
http://www.realclearpolitics.c...
....and incorrect pedantry at that. If he had said something about the Constitutional electoral process, you'd have a point, but that's not the case. Would you happen to also be one of those who jumps in with the correction 'the U.S. is a republic, not a democracy' except the fact that its representatives are democratically elected?
Who?
Much as I like his platform, it's hard to treat him as a serious presidential candidate in the context of what a debate is likely to cover when his stated position is that he cares only about passing campaign finance reform and then will resign.
From Lessig's own campaign page (https://lessig2016.us/)
"He will serve only as long as it takes to pass the reforms necessary to fix our corrupt political system. Once passed, he will resign, and the vice president becomes president of a government that works."
That means if you want to have a debate about foreign policy, talk to the VP. Tax policy? Talk to the VP. There may be some people who like the single-minded focus this implies, but since we're talking about a 4-year term, that leaves a huge swath of debate issues left in an unanswerable state, especially since he hasn't named his VP yet.
I tend to believe that the Republican party is more involved in undermining their Democratic opposition, rather than seeing Democrats trying to undermine each other at this point. Biden is already positioned as the white knight who will reluctantly accept the burden of representing the party once Hillary's baggage overwhelms her, and the Democrats don't need the negative karma of poisoning their own well to do that; they would want Hillary to be able to bow out and make a graceful handoff rather than scorch the earth behind her.
They say they want someone honest, but what they really mean is they want someone who tells them what they want to hear, but means it. Unfortunately, this is rarely an option. Given the choice between harsh truths and comforting lies, the vast majority are going to choose the liars. So even if he got into the debate, he wouldn't win any support that way.
This is a stupid story. First, the Electoral college doesn't decided who is nominated by either major party. Second, the Electoral college has even less to do with who CNN chooses to let into their debate. Third, who has heard of this person to start with? Doesn't that have more to do with why CNN didn't/won't put them on the stage with the other "serious" contenders?
Not to mention....Why would this story make it to Slashdot? How's this "news for nerds" anyway?
"File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
Evacuate? In our moment of triumph? I think you overestimate their chances.
1. Get elected.
2. ???
3. Compel congress to pass reform.
I love some of Lessig's ideas, but he doesn't have a prayer of getting into any position to implement them. The current electoral system is rigged so that only the two major parties have any hope of getting a candidate elected to national office. You have to get inside the system in order to have the power to change it -- But why in the world would either party allow in someone whose stated goal is to upset the apple cart and make it harder for the party to win in the future?
The only people in favor of electoral reform are those outside the system. The ones inside the system benefit too much from the status quo.
Chelloveck
I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
All props to him for wanting to fix a broken system, but there are at least two things working against him:
1) Congress - both the House and the Senate are elected by that same system that's broken and, as an outsider, he's going to have to convince them to work against their own interests. The size of the mandate he has, if elected, won't really matter to those guys, at a minimum, for two years. Which brings us to the second thing ...
2) All those other things that the President has to deal with while he's dealing with fixing the election system: trade, education, terror, drugs, crime (and not just handing that stuff out to whatever foreign country we're peeved at today, but actually stopping that stuff here in the US). He might actually have to stop once in a while to talk about the nutjobs in North Korea. Or maybe even *do* something to someone, somewhere. These are jobs and authorizations that can't get handed off to the VP, because the VP is pretty much just a guy hanging around waiting for something to happen to the President.
Lessig is being stupidly naive if he thinks anyone else thinks he can solve the situation in an hour with a fiat declaration to Congress. Hell, he's naive if he thinks it can be done in year. If he wants to be taken seriously by anyone other than a bunch of /.'ers, he needs to have people and policies in place to deal with the things that *might actually try to kill us* or bankrupt us or just plain take advantage of us.
Lessig is like one of those sad little one-issue Libertarians that show up at a hotel in Des Moines every four years and takes part in a clownshow that not worth airing on television.
He needs to get real and get big, now, or go home.
So is what we're saying, is that anyone who can raise 1 million dollars towards a campaign should be allowed to participate in the debates? That sounds like a recipe for making the debate worthless or filled with crackpots to me. If the head of the KKK raises a million bucks and wants to run as a democrat, should he be allowed into the debates even though his polling is nil?
If you want to change the system, why the hell would you run for president? Any true change is going to happen in the legislature.
And that never made any difference to the military members who had far less serious security violations than Queen Hillary and were prosecuted and punished. If any serving member of the armed forces had done what she did they would be living in the Fort Leavenworth bed and breakfast for years. In all likelihood there may have been no serious security breach but there is no doubt there was a serious security violation. What she did was illegal but then she's Hillary and laws don't apply to her. Yet another fine example of our masters being above the law that applies to all us peons.
It is ironic that a candidate whose campaign is based on denying others the ability to speak is complaining that he is being denied the ability to speak.
I tend to believe that the Republican party is more involved in undermining their Democratic opposition
IMHO Hillary has done this to herself. The fact that the MSM hasn't really touched on this, the NYT hasn't run daily headlines on this (email scandal) is proof that the coronation is still highly possible, if not for the GOP carrying the weight. Now, I am no big fan of the hypocrites in the GOP nor their complete lack any real substance on things they could be hanging on Obama and the DNC.
But here, the Email Scandal is going to bite every one of the "There is no proof" Democratic Apologists and the DNC as a whole in the ass. Anyone who has anything to do with Hillary and Bill (the rapist) will end up being toxic for years.
And the GOP is more or less is incapable of doing anything useful, which is why someone like Trump can stay on top of the polls, months after he should have gone away.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
John Dvorak is that you?
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
If any serving member of the armed forces had done what she did they would be living in the Fort Leavenworth bed and breakfast for years.
A certain General Patreaus might disagree with you. Now, if you were talking about just peons, then you have a point. But the double standard is enchantingly broad.
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
Yeah, James K. Polk was a real loser.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Perhaps, but having him be able to speak his message in the national debate would start the ball rolling. We may not be ready to fix the rotten core of our system this cycle, but it's important to expose the real problem so when the next president manages to fix nothing substantive, people will know why and have possible solutions in mind.
It may take some time, but it has to start somewhere.
Freedom to fear. Freedom from thought. Freedom to kill.
I guess the War on Terror really is about freedom!
This country, or at least those in low electoral counts, will curse the day, if they get rid of the the electoral college. The only reason politicians today, give any rats ass about small count states, is BECAUSE of the electoral college. Base it only on popular vote, and those states can kiss ANY money from DC, goodbye. While they are at it, repeal the 17th amendment, and put the election of senators, back into the hands of the state legislators, where it belongs. As it stands now, the people have two houses. The house of representatives, and the senate. This leaves the states, out of the loop, in the republic. The states are to be the ones electing the senators, which gives the states, their "voice" in Washington DC.
You don't seem to understand how politics works.
That actually pissed me off more than Hillary. At least she's a damn civilian. Patreaus actually commanded men that he held to higher standards than he did for himself. What a travesty. He should have been court martialed. I kept a safe when I was in the Air Force. Those regulations pertaining to classified materials are draconian and carry harsh penalties. To see people at the top ignore the law with contempt is abominable. To see people excuse them is even worse.
Didn't she set up this email server because that's what the previous secretary of state did?
That otherwise intelligent individuals succumb to the timeless ignorance of a government solution to the world's problems? Every which-way you look, there is evidence their solutions do not work. The economics of their solutions have never worked. Entire countries can be cited as examples of terrible socialist policies put in place, that destroyed the lives of millions. Yet we continue to receive warmly welcomed, watered-down socialists as candidates for the leader of the free world. Any argument that is contrary to the liberal position is deemed as unworthy, ill-informed, ignorant... Most of their whining has been addressed economically over the last thousand years. Eventually conservatives will be battling lions in an arena...with the crowd of stubborn imbeciles cheering their destruction.
You sound like Dr Evil, thinking $1 million is real money.
Overall spending, 2012 Presidential Election:
Dems: $964 million
Repubs $1.12 billion
(https://www.opensecrets.org/pres12/)
Yes, when the amount you've raised is 1/1000 what EITHER candidate in 2012 spent, that is precisely a "sneezing at" amount. It's nothing.
-Styopa
www.cnn.com?????
Lessig has interesting ideas, but he's not a realistic candidate. The debates aren't a forum for everyone with interesting ideas, they're supposed to give us a look at people who actually have a chance at being elected.
This might come as a galloping shock, but the rules changed between administrations, and what was acceptable before is no longer.
But that's ok, you can just keep going with the 'Blame Bush' strategy, still strong after 7+ years. Or is it the lovely "but they did it, so it must be ok if I do it too" fallacy that Congress loves so much?
Second, mishandling classified material is a FELONY
Stop using bold and CAPS. It is annoying. I am all for a witchhunt and I do think Hillary is a witch, but she did not mishandle classified material. The emails were classified after the fact. When she received it, it was ordinary correspondence.
Is that you, APK?
Yeah, NOT TRUSTWORTHY AT ALL and therefore unqualified to be President.
Being trustworthy is not a qualification to be president. It helps one get enough votes to win, but isn't a requirement. Or are you trying to tell me that all previous presidents were pinnacles of trust and virtue?
From TFS:
Yes, that's precisely why he can't get on the stage. The entire circus is predicated on the illusion that the rocket can get off the ground. Circus de-bunkers are not, pretty much by definition, members of the circus.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
I hadn't heard that before. Do you have a link?
Evidently you do not know how classified information works.
Yes, information that was previously unclassified can be classified later.
However, information that is generated by classified sources are classified from the moment they are created and they are classified whether they are marked as such or not. Anything generated by a classified system is automatically classified. All classified systems and info need to be brought into accountability.
Even better is when you put classified info on an unclassified system. The whole thing now becomes classified. Her email server at the FBI probably has a TOP SECRET sticker on it by now.
She was pretty high up as far as authority went, and there's a high probability she was presented with raw data that was so time sensitive, it was unmarked.
Even giving her the benefit of the doubt, it does not matter. She should have known better.
Those of us who have handled classified info in the past can easily see the problem with her situation here.
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
Why can't the Democrats do that same?
The Republicans are so fightable, and so terribly bad at making appear that they are not evil, stupid, backward, and generally raping the planet, that they are kind of uniting the Democrats behind a "We don't want to vote for Clinton but we have to vote for a not-Republican and Clinton is the only option the part leadership is letting us vote for" standard.
The Republicans are also throwing open their primaries as part of a strategy the last couple of elections, whereas the Clintons sewed up the party leadership in a serious way this election, undoubtedly with help from Obama after a backroom deal she made with him when he was elected and she got SecState.
What does Polk have to do with any of this? He wasn't single-issue, and he neither pledged to resign nor resigned.
Is this really shocking? It's Larry Agran in 1992 all over again.
"Love heals scars love left." -- Henry Rollins
Every once in a while we need to be able to mod a post +10 Interesting+Insightful+Informative. This is one of those posts. What infuriates me the most is that if anybody here did the same thing, we'd already be rotting in jail the rest of our life. The double standards and hypocrisy of our government makes me very sick.
What probability do you estimate that Biden will be the nominee?
Less than 0.1%.
Nah, that couldn't be it. Must be a CONSPIRACY.
Democrats are quite happy with things how they are I mean winning twice, we figure we got a good 9 more presidential wins.
2 a Woman, two a Hispanic, 2 a Asian and 2 a gay then another black but she only wins one 4 year term.
That should be her platform. You should vote for me, because everyone is created equal, but I am more equal than the rest of you.
I've got an insulted witch looking over my shoulder.
The fact that the MSM hasn't really touched on this, the NYT hasn't run daily headlines on this (email scandal) is proof that the coronation is still highly possible, if not for the GOP carrying the weight.
I know it might be hard to believe but maybe, maybe the issue really ISN'T that important to be running "daily headlines" on the story?
And the GOP is more or less is incapable of doing anything useful, which is why someone like Trump can stay on top of the polls, months after he should have gone away.
I feel like it's 2012 again, when flashy, 'fun' (but stupid) candidates gain the limelight for the GOP, before they finally settle on the safe, boring, more electable guy.
>far less serious security violations than Queen Hillary and were prosecuted and punished.
Any reference to someome being prosecuted, for "far less"? So far their is zero evidence that any intellegence was compromised. So a single prosecution, beyond simple administrative action like losing security clearence, where no compromise actually occured, and no intentional disclosure was intended in their actions.
I agree; I support Lessig and would support him for President if he were actually willing to do the job. I think he'd be able to do a lot of good on various issues.
I don't think his resignation pledge is compatible with taking him seriously; our nation deserves better than that. Our offices are not tools for stunts.
For every problem, there is at least one solution that is simple, neat, and wrong.
He was quad-issue. And he planned never to run for a second term.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Petraeus shared classified information with someone who had a valid clearance but not the need to know. It's a pretty easy argument to make that what he did is much less bad than sending classified information to (quite probably) uncleared people through an unclassified private email server, maintained by an admin who likely had full access to all the emails and may or may not have even been cleared himself. What Petraeus did was wrong, yes, but not even on the same scale.
captcha: muddied
This is insightful? Previous Secretaries of State used private email servers, including Colin Powell. It's illegal now, but that's because the law was changed about a year after she left the job.
In the meantime, all the stupid Benghazi accusations going around make me extremely reluctant to believe anything a Hilary basher says. It may be the "boy who cried wolf" situation, and we know how that turned out.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
There is no evidence that Bill Clinton ever raped anyone. He's clearly a jerk who skirted the legal definition of sexual harassment, but I've never seen any serious allegation of rape.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Yeah, NOT TRUSTWORTHY AT ALL and therefore unqualified to be President.
If all previous examples are anything to go by, then it actually makes her perfectly qualified...
1. Select by LOTTERY
https://equalitybylot.wordpres...
2. Candidate should QUALIFY in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/f...
Casteism
Yes it is. A million dollars is nothing in terms of campaign fundraising.