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Court: Lawsuit Over NYPD Surveillance of Muslims Can Proceed (washingtonpost.com)
PolygamousRanchKid sends this report from the Washington Post:
A federal court said Tuesday that a civil rights lawsuit accusing police in New York City of improperly singling out Muslims for surveillance could proceed, reversing a lower court's decision last year to dismiss the case. In its opinion (PDF), a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 3rd Circuit rejected the city's call to have the case dismissed and brushed aside any suggestion that media reports about the surveillance, rather than the surveillance itself, caused any harm.
The lawsuit claims that surveillance of Muslim people in New Jersey discriminated against them due to their religion. It was filed by Muslim Advocates, a legal advocacy group, and later joined by the Center for Constitutional Rights, another legal organization, on behalf of several New Jersey Muslims who say they were unconstitutionally monitored by the New York Police Department. ... Last year, the NYPD disbanded the unit involved in the surveillance activities, a move that Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) praised in a statement at the time as "a critical step forward in easing tensions between the police and the communities they serve."
The lawsuit claims that surveillance of Muslim people in New Jersey discriminated against them due to their religion. It was filed by Muslim Advocates, a legal advocacy group, and later joined by the Center for Constitutional Rights, another legal organization, on behalf of several New Jersey Muslims who say they were unconstitutionally monitored by the New York Police Department. ... Last year, the NYPD disbanded the unit involved in the surveillance activities, a move that Mayor Bill de Blasio (D) praised in a statement at the time as "a critical step forward in easing tensions between the police and the communities they serve."
We get enough data from phones and social networks now. Please proceed.
Anyone wanna 5x?
I sometimes wonder if there will be a time when we (US Government... or any government) wont look at someones race or religion as a threat and start looking more at the individual's past actions instead. I guess the only way that could change would be if we got more diverse people into government leadership positions... or if people would stop being so scared at things they don't understand. Our fear is usually the result of our own downfall.
It's time to grow up as a collective society. Anyone still immature, irrational, childish, illogical and just down right moronic enough to believe that a God created everything and everyone and then told about it in poorly written, massively contradictory books, deserves to be mocked, and followed.
Islam is the story of God as told by an epileptic, illiterate, schizophrenic, paranoid, delusional, diapered, cave man. Who married a child, raped that child, wanted humanity to enslave women, kill people who didn't believe his bat shit crazy view and then (according to Islam), flew to heaven on a magical horse. Now when that your belief system, how much respect do you really want?
Islam is matched with Christianity and Jewish for all the time dumbest, most insane concepts on earth.
Religion is studied and believed by those who are so childish and immature, they need to hold the blanket of irrationality, pray to a sky daddy, who has no evidence, all to make themselves feel like they matter.
If I were the courts, I would said the answer is to grow up, stop acting like children, which is who religion is for, now lets grow up, you can start by taking the diaper off your head.
This kind of discrimination is perfectly logical and desirable.
If these people had a non-religious ideology which included hating/killing/repressing Jews, Homosexuals, non-believers by violence, e.g. (Neo)-Nazism (Godwin's fallacy aside), then the Authorities would be allowed to be all over them.
After all, only just a few Nazis killed Jews, Romas, and Homosexuals. The vast majority of Nazis were good law abiding folk. You can't judge all Nazis by the actions of just a small minority- that would be racist oh sorry, I meant bigoted
Nazism is an ideology of peace! (eventually, for those who follow it)
The lawsuit claims that surveillance of Muslim people in New Jersey discriminated against them due to their religion.
What would a Jersey Muslim sound like?
I mean, racism is one thing, what they're describing is something else. Do the cops know what magical elf I'm worshiping tonight? Perhaps my True Religion jeans gave me away.
Also, there are hundreds of thousands of muslims in NY... it's hard to believe the cops singled out those folks for random harassment just 'cause they felt like it. There probably were suspicious indicators that they picked up. Yes, false positives happen... sucks for everyone involved (yes, the gov wasted our tax dollars on that false positive).
It's kind of hard to claim religion of peace when the biggest refugee crisis of the world since ww2 is caused by folks trying to get away from groups enforcing the strict interpretation of that peaceful religion.
Islamists are dangerous far beyond their numbers, statistically. The problem is that you can't tell them apart from Muslims. There is a lot of overlap, and neither Islamists nor Muslims are willing to help us differentiate the two groups.
A funny thing about people is that we tend to protect ourselves. If the peaceful means of protection are not available to people, the people will tend to use non-peaceful means. Attempting to identify and track a group that is a self-professed threat to us is a peaceful means of protection.
The world will tremble at the building backlash, if the pressure isn't allowed a safe release.
Posting anon. I can afford to burn the karma, but when something this obvious is pointed out, most people assume (even after I explicitly deny) that I'm in favor of it.
I have to wonder if Mayor de Blasio will force the NYC PD to take a dive on this suit to get a particular precedent into law like the Obama administration has done?
The would seem to be as easy method of advancing the agenda in a way hard to reverse. Of course that probably won't work out well for everyone else.
much of left-wing thought is a kind of playing with fire by people who don't even know that fire is hot - George Orwell
Pumping iron and hairspray, both potential ingredients for IEDs!
I think it's time we just wall up the entire state, because if those Muslims don't try and blow us up, the stereotypes in the reality TV shows probably will instead :)
It's really news that someone asks the question "Hey, that maybe racially biased"
Now we have a news story that says: "Hey, we'll might look into it. They might be human afterall. (Let's buy more guns!)"
Not all muslims know bin laden. (I thought this was something you didn't know).
The NYPD is WAY outside its jurisdiction here... it operates in NY under the 2nd Circuit Court of Appeals, one of the most well-respected in the country.
This is sort of like the Chinese complaining that counterintelligence focuses on them as being in a group that provides possible spies for China.
What do you expect? Should counterintelligence focus on Swedes instead?
Get real. You focus on where the problem is likely to be. Is that somehow "discrimination" or "unfair" or just common sense?
I'm finished with engaging with the Slashdot community. All I see are paranoid overzealous comments in what is overwhelmingly a a civil liberties story.
It is worth mentioning that zero terrorist attacks were foiled through this surveillance program; those promoting xenophobic mistruths in the comments should be ashamed of themselves.
Islam is now the largest criminal prison gang in the UK. Muslim rape gangs run riot, and they openly target the military. Is it any surprise that we want to keep an eye on them?
So is your thinking that when facing the persistent long term threat of violent extremists Islamists (which are pretty much exclusively Muslim) dedicated to the overthrow of Western civilization that the proper course of action is to search for violent Buddhists, Lutherans, and atheists? Because, Diversity!??
I kinda' want to get back to the mode where the crime comes before the investigation, you know?
Crime's been going down, we're currently at the lowest point it's been for decades.
We're starting to get a handle on what causes crime, and it turns out to be completely unrelated to policing or enforcement or longer jail sentences or anything like that: it's things like tetra-ethyl-lead wearing out of the environment, access to abortions for unwanted pregnancies 20 years ago, economic security, and things like that.
The police seem to think it's their job to prevent crime from happening, and they're bored because they have nothing else to do, and so they take great pains to try to predict who will commit a crime and take action before it happens.
We're seeing this already in things like parallel construction, seeing which crimes can be extended to cover an action they don't like, and arresting people for "planning" to join ISIS.
On that last one: people aren't attacking America, didn't join a group that attacks America, didn't go to the country where they *could* have joined the group that attacks America, and didn't have a *plane ticket* to go to the country where they *could* have joined the group that attacks America...
and yet, posting "I'm going to join ISIS" on your facebook page is enough to get you thrown in jail in this country. It's "pre-crime" prosecution.
I kinda' want to get back to the mode where the crime comes before the investigation, you know?
In the early years of the expansion of the Islamic Empire, during the last years of its prophet's life, the empire used the technique of hit and run brigandage on the surrounding territories as a way to soften them up for subsequent invasion. The reality is that Islam can reasonably be argued to be a moral legitimation for an expansionist empire; that the Arabs got to FRANCE before being turned back is not usually known.
Of course there are some Muslims who are embarrassed by this history, and merely endorse Islam because that's what they grew up in. The problem is whether we should believe what they say, or realising that Islam regards itself at war with all outsiders, justifying deceiving them, treat all denials with great scepticism. And if so, do we argue that Islam is a criminal organisation? If not, why not?
You could have said "well the 9/11 terrorists were men, so we'll spy on all men", .... what do men expect, that they should spy on women?!
All of the terrorists were CIA trained or trained by terrorists who were CIA trained (Al Qaeda = the database or list, referring to the list of Mujahadeen trained by the CIA). So if you want to focus on a narrow set, the most obvious set was the people from the CIA list and their associates. That would have been useful.
If you wanted a wider set, a set of people who've traveled to those hot spot countries in the last few years would have been useful maybe. But the more broad the list, the more noise and less signal.
As the list gets wider and wider, it gets worth less and less. So NYPD wanted some big broad surveillance and chose a weak selector to give themselves an excuse for a mass surveillance. Essentially worthless.
"Should counterintelligence focus on Swedes instead?"
You realize they "focus" mostly on Americans? Co-Traveller for example. The surveillance is skewed by the quantity of data, so easy to get data (i.e. US and UK data) is searched while difficult to get data is not searched. Is it useful to do that?
I put "focus" in quotes because blanket surveillance like that is not focus, its the opposite. Focus requires that you ignore noise and concentrate on signal, not build giant database of noise to swamp any signal on every search.
Actually, in the USA the biggest source of terrorism is from gun holders. You're far more likely to be killed from a nutter with a gun on a rampage than any foreign terrorist threat. So really they should spy on all gun owners and their households, since that's the biggest threat.
But that is maybe too large a group, you'd be spying on too many people and many of those gun holders have a gun for self defense. So to focus on a narrower set more likely to be extremists.
So you could spy on everyone who has a gun and follows that extremist religious preacher you see on TV, you know the guy who spouts hate, constantly makes Hitler references, and wants his followers to carry guns. The gunman who shot Senator Gabrielle Giffords was one of his disciples, radicalized to become a terrorist.
I think the preacher is call "Bill O Reilly" or something and he's on the extremist Fox channel.
Koran 9:29 is one of the last non-abrogated verses of the Koran and states:
Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.
This aya replaces pretty much everything else in Islam. It is amazing that so many Slashdotters have so many opinions on Islam without understanding some of the fundamental doctrines of Islam (which Islamists try to keep hidden from you).
At the heart of the Western liberal mindset are two basic assumptions: everyone has essentially the same beliefs as us, and it's all right to ignore all evidence to the contrary. This derives from an over optimistic reading of history combined with the propensity of modern theology to interpret all the difficult bits of the bible away.
Such people therefore assume that everyone else does the same to their scriptures and end up with core beliefs just like them. When they find they don't, they are forced to conclude that these must be a small minority - because the alternative is to challenge their deeply held beliefs. And lo - they rate your contribution as a troll. Funny that...
Now it can well be argued that conservatives are TOO pessimistic - but at least we don't get unpleasantly surprised...
"So is your thinking that when facing the persistent long term threat of violent extremists Islamist" yeah except for a little fact : most terrorist activity in the USA are actually.... surprise surprise : domestic terrorist and from what I can tell mostly non Islamist. Here is an example from 2002-2005 : "Planned Attack against Islamic Center of Pinellas County Pinellas Park, Florida (Prevention of one act of Domestic Terrorism) On August 22, 2002, police in Pinellas County, Florida, responding to a domestic dispute detained Robert J. Goldstein after finding numerous weapons and explosives and a “mission statement” "
In fact domestic terrorist is mostly white folk, and mostly white male, and a lot of it is related to white supremacist or anti federalist. So by the standard you set up... Looking at threats... NY police should watch over all those white male, not Islamist.
And I thought only Britain, Norway and Sweden were mad not talking about an epidemic of muslin gang rapes not be be labeled racist...
Why pick on Muslim people, just last week I was walking down the street and spotted this group of Nichiren Buddhists approaching in the distance, I had to cross the street and walk back the way I came from.
The 'muslim' / mass immigration is part of the Jews schemes to destroy. Dupe americans bought the 911 fraud, and allow the bogus military to destroy the middle east, the same time allow more immigrants to swarm here. The jews are the cabal that have directed all the destruction, while americans have been ignorant followers. Why, if 'muslims did 911', has so-called 'government' continued to let them in, along with over one hundred million other immigrants since '911'. Why, if the twenty trillion dollars 'bailouts' were such an 'emergency', have they since then, let in another 15 million immigrants. You See you are being swarmed, yet same time the bogus 'media' and 'government' yammer about 'terrorists', they lie about the mass immigration, they distract, they double talk, because it is all a giant act. The fact is most in bogus government, bogus media, are jews. Most trolls on the net are jews. They keep the distraction going, look this way look that way. They are spraying us with nano chip chemtrails. That is the terrorist problem. --- Search "jewishcrimenetworkdid911" and 'thezog' info also holohoax and Leuchter report archive org and 'who brought the slaves to america' by walter white at archive org also jewishfaces archive org . They are millions in the tribe. They are all the fake 'activist' groups fake 'privacy rights' the 'aclu' it's all jews they even run most 'jew truther' sites on the web, so dupes follow false fronts. - Over two thirds of comments on the web are jew trolls, extremely busy right now since their chemtrail virus is sprayed, all of them in the tribe in media/govt/on the web keep distraction going about muslims, religion, bogus elections, so people don't see the giant Jew tribe behind it all.
The jew bolsheviks tortured killed over 100 million, russians, ukraines, poles. Same tribe that occupies 'govt', 'state govt', all 'media', 'colleges' etc., and who is behind every war. See washinton's face on the dollar and rest of the 'presidents'. The jews made up all the illusions, the bogus 'founders' didn’t 'found' anything, look at the dollar, washington's face, jewish, they were all cons, and dupes just went along. The consitution is a fraud. Freedom is not bogus scraps of paper bogus 'government' 'republic' 'democracy' jew communist schemes. It's making tribes, not paying 'tax' to cons. The jews are a tribe, but separate everyone else so no one makes tribes to stop the schemes, 'muslims' 'christians' 'blacks' 'whites' 'gays' 'men' 'women'. If people figured out to make tribes the jew schemes would be done. it is late now. Chemtrails. People have been very ignorant. Time is short. Do the searches, give the links/sites to others.
I would RFID chip every Muslim that can not assimilate to West standard but still insist to live here. Or let them go back where they came from without the tag. Sorry honey can't have it both ways: NEXT!
Bogus, posts about muslims but delete comments on the Jews. All bogus news or posts about muslims are to keep the nine eleven 'muslims' meme going for more 'wars' and to distract from the jews who control it all and cause the division. The jews are the cabal that directed all the destruction, americans have been ignorant followers. Why, if 'muslims did 911', has so-called 'government' continued to let them in, along with over one hundred million other immigrants since '911'. Why, if the twenty trillion dollars 'bailouts' were such an 'emergency', have they since then, let in another 15 million immigrants. You see we are being swarmed, yet same time the bogus 'media' and 'government' yammer about 'terrorists', they lie about the mass immigration, they distract, they double talk, because it is all a giant act. The fact is most in bogus government, bogus media, are Jews. Most comments on the net are jews. They keep the distraction going, look this way look that way. They are spraying us with nano chip chemtrails and virus, deadly danger and they cover it up. The Jews control it all and did 911 and also bring in all the muslims and mass immigrants so the rest of us have no power, the jews do all the division also, 'muslims' 'christians' 'gays' 'men' 'women', they keep everyone divided, so the jews the only tribe and no one else makes tribes for our own power. Their bogus 'government' was a jew scheme from the start look at washington's face on the dollar. So was the 'consitution' fraud, so everyone pays 'tax' to the jews so they could get trillions in weapons, and take over the world, and they have. Then they blame muslims. The jews are the cabal. --Search "jewishcrimenetworkdid911" and 'thezog' also holohoax, and colchestercollection, Protocols of Zion. They planned to blame every other group for what they do. Make wars, pit christians and muslims against each other, poison food, break up families, keep everyone focused on bogus schools bogus jobs, while they took over the world, now population control of everyone but themselves. They blame muslims for 911 when it was them the jews, they blame 'whites' for slavery when its was them 'who brought the slaves to america' by walter white you can see copy at archive org You can copy this so you have to re read. People have ignored too much too long. The jews control it all. They tell you themselves -
I don't care if Americans think we're running the news media, hollywood, wall street or the government. I just care that we get to keep running them. - Joel Stein LA Times 2009
I am aware there are errors, but could slashdot cut down the number of political stories?
Muslims don't control 'government' or media, Jews do, they're spraying us CHEMTRAILS.
Jews are the problem. holodomorinfo.com
Here's a good place to start: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks
While good and evil are subjective terms, there is no doubt that the United States is the most violent nation on earth. When you consider that 90% of the indigenous peoples of the Americas died out as a consequence of European incursion, follow through the million dead of the U.S. civil war, then culminate in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, there is no doubt that we have earned this status.
Perhaps it is necessary to inflict violence on the world, and perhaps not. I would prefer a more congenial nation, but life is rarely about what we want.
Ayaan grew up Muslim then moved to the west. I think it is fair to call her an authority
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fe_cuzsmmHU
The fact that a lot of dreadful things have been done in the name of religion - and in the name of atheism (thus Stalin, Mao and Pol Pot's suppression of religion) doesn't mean we can regard all religions equally. It is most appropriate to look at the earliest expressions of the religion, and decide whether its roots are flawed, or whether it's merely a minority within it that are a problem. On this basis Christianity gets a pass - though with a 'room for improvement' given the Vatican's record over child abuse, the Russian Orthodox inability to tear itself away from Putin's embrace, and some of the more obnoxious elements in Protestantism, including rank homophobia - condemning people for how they are tempted, not merely how they live - as well as the prosperity preachers.
By contrast that nice Ayatollah Khomeni offers us his agenda for Islam:
Islam’s jihad is a struggle against idolatry, sexual deviation, plunder, repression, and cruelty. The war waged by [non-Islamic] conquerors, however, aims at promoting lust and animal pleasures. They care not if whole countries are wiped out and many families left homeless. But those who study jihad will understand why Islam wants to conquer the whole world. All the countries conquered by Islam or to be conquered in the future will be marked for everlasting salvation. For they shall live under [God’s law].... Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless.'
Barry M. Rubin and Judith Colp Rubin, eds. Anti-American terrorism and the Middle East: A documentary reader. (Oxford: OUP, 2004) 29
'Those who know nothing of Islam pretend that Islam counsels against war. Those [who say this] are witless.'
Of course it's nice to be nice to Muslims. Being nice to poisonous snakes is also a good strategy... There are peaceful Muslims - and that's good. However opinion polls point to an awful lot who aren't - and those are the ones who admit their dangerous beliefs. https://muslimstatistics.wordp...
. . . subject to all the legal protections afforded to same?
Or is it more just a corrupt and bankrupt sick ideology, more akin to Communism?