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Consumer Reports Withdraws Its Tesla Model S Recommendation (consumerreports.org)
An anonymous reader sends news that Consumer Reports, after earlier giving the Tesla Model S a perfect road test score, has now withdrawn its recommendation for the electric car after investigating its reliability. As part of our Annual Auto Reliability Survey, we received about 1,400 survey responses from Model S owners who chronicled an array of detailed and complicated maladies. From that data we forecast that owning that Tesla is likely to involve a worse-than-average overall problem rate. ... The main problem areas involved the drivetrain, power equipment, charging equipment, giant iPad-like center console, and body and sunroof squeaks, rattles, and leaks. ... Overall, squeaks and rattles appear to be the most prevalent complaint. But as one respondent commented, "The car is so very silent when driving that minor squeaks and rattles that you wouldn't be able to hear in a gasoline engine car become very annoying." The list of issues also includes more significant problems, which could be pricey to fix once out of warranty. Based on survey responses, Tesla has made a habit of replacing the car’s electric motors. The brake rotors tend to warp. And the door handles often fail to “present” themselves as drivers approach their cars.
Hearing those noises is reassuring - it tells me the part making the noise hasn't fallen off yet.
#DeleteChrome
I always wondered how the door handles would work after an ice storm or freezing rain. I've dealt with my share of frozen car door locks, but at least I could get the handle to move. I think the touch screen console was a big mistake. You need to be able to manage things like climate settings, radio stations, etc. by touch. Forcing the drive to look at a screen for mundane things was a bad idea. I don't own a Tesla, partly because they are so new and I don't like the design elements I mentioned. But I have driven one. There are very few other cars that are as much fun to drive.
Imagine how much harder physics would be if electrons had feelings! -Feynman, maybe
Comedian: "So I just spent $200 to fix my muffler."
[Crowd cheers]
Comedian: "No, no. It's a bad thing. It was so loud that I couldn't hear all the other things that were wrong with my car."
"Now I'm going to have to spend $500 . . .
. . .
. . .
"for a better stereo system."
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
That a car can fall this far this fast with little or no structural or locomotional changes says more about the raters than the ratee.
Besides, the dashboard entertainment will be vastly improved, and you deserve a new car.
Get with the program!
I'm not surprised. NADA wrote about their experience driving one for a year, and they experienced a lot of problems over that time. Their problems, like what CR indicates, were with drivetrain and touch screens mostly. Frankly, I don't even find anything about this concerning except the drivetrain problems. The only electric I'd be interested in would be a low-mid end model, which likely wouldn't have as much extra stuff to break (touch screens, pop out handles, etc.). However, if they can't even keep the drivetrain from breaking, that doesn't bode well for the lower models.
I like Tesla, but I have a nagging feeling that what's going to happen is that one of these days Toyota or Honda or someone will start taking electric very seriously, and Tesla will be done. Toyota and others have experience and economies of scale that Tesla can't match.
So the question is, can they fix it? This is a relatively new car company, certainly the most successful of any new car company in the last decade. A problem with a door handle or a brake rotor is hardly unique in this industry.
To think this will cause permanent harm to all future Tesla owners is ridiculous. The car is pretty darn good for a new model. In a few years people will start to notice all the failed parts on their Fords and Toyotas and buy a Tesla next.
Squeaks, rattles, door handles? oh, that can't possibly ever be fixed
Yes, all those things are annoyances for owners but they'll be addressed. Did someone not get the 4 year bumper to bumper warranty? It's included in the sale.
Motor and brake problems are more serious but again, nothing unfixable.
However, the company has to work on improving its reliability quickly, before the launch of the Model 3.
That's the car that's going to determine if Tesla has a future - and is far more likely to be the ONLY car someone owns.
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
Tesla deserves some scrutiny, but I'd be very interested in the driving habits of those surveyed. With the rotors reportedly "tending to warp" I'd be interested in knowing whether the rotors are insufficiently thick (it's a pretty heavy vehicle at 4800 lbs/2100 kg) or if the drivers tend to have a lead foot.
At the price range of the Tesla, owners are used to Daimlers and BMWs. There are not rattles and squeaks. And no, it's not hidden by loud combustion engines either. Not at 55 mph, that's close to idle. The Tesla is an american car, what do you expect?
VW publicly stated that they will going to electric car business.
Wait for Apple competition, Apple Car, in several years.
Hope that Toyota will deliver their water-electric (hydrodgen fuel) cell products.
One needs to assume that Chinese owned Volvo will roll out some models for the western market.
Then American manufacturers will follow. There is room for many manufacturers. I hope that prices will drop and there will no longer be dealers to deal with.
Consumer Reports does some good work tracking reliability ratings and some of their reviews are decent, but over the past several years they have weighted things so heavily towards environmentally "friendly" products (scare quotes because items that don't work well aren't really that friendly when they wind up in a landfill when you replace them with something that actually fucking works right) that their overall recommendations are pretty close to worthless.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
They aren't powered by electrity, but hampsters. Now hampsters normally are not enough to power a car, but put some snakes in with them, and they make orders of magnitude more energy trying to run away. This is the only possible reason you hear squeeks and rattles.
God spoke to me
When rotors warp there is a single answer as to why. They were not designed/manufactured thick enough. Don't blame driving styles or any bullshit like that. Brake rotors should be able to glow red and still not warp.
But weight. But cost. But didn't think. But, driving style. These are all lame excuses for bad design. And when I pay $100,000 for a car, I expect proven technologies like disc brakes to be flawless!
What this Consumer Reports article is telling me is that, most unfortunately, my plan to buy a used Tesla at a "reasonable" price is a very bad idea. Perhaps worse than buying a used British sports car. As in both cases, the problems will be frequent and the repair cost will be extremely high.
undoing mod
Someone with a username like yours should probably already know the answer to such a question but I completely understand why that's the first thing that would come to your mind.
What if car-making, he thought, doesn't come from a store. What if car-making...perhaps...means a little bit more?
It's weird, it's almost like making a car is hard, especially one with a new kind of power source. Like maybe the existing auto industry weren't just sitting on their hands being old and uncool? Maybe they actually have a couple advantages compared to the noobs. Like a few decades of cumulative trial-and-error / design iteration / test data / customer feedback perhaps. Or an existing, intricately interconnected global industrial infrastructure & supply chain.
Now OK granted, they lack Musk's massive government subsidy for "renewable" energy (i.e. burning coal to power the electric grid), because they still mostly depend on petroleum. But I'll bet they get subsidies of their own, since they're a huge and mature industry and are well-connected politically. So that one's a tie.
What else? Well Musk sure has "gumption" by golly, totally gonna "change" and "disrupt" a bunch of stuff, fuckyeah! Big Auto, not so much, mainly because they are frankly standing there holding a firehose of money and don't want to risk doing anything that might slow the flow. So advantage to Musk in the gumption department. Somebody give him a peanut butter & jelly sandwich, pat him on the head and give him some fucking Legos to play with so he doesn't break anything.
As a Tela owner: 1) Assembly quality lags BMW but is plenty good especially considering they have not been building cars for decades 2) Some people have had motor units replaced due to a whine. This isn't actually a motor issue or a reliability issue and doesn't affect the reliability at all. It's shim wear that is fixed by replacing the shim in the single gear transmission. Since the motor with gear is easily swapped in a few hours (free), I chalk this up as a minor issue that they will likely fix with a better shim 3) body hardware problems are going to be the same as other cars since they use the same designs as other cars for things like the sunroof. A lot of people are hoping that Tesla will stumble. This doesn't qualify as a stumble. I've had zero problems with my car. One of my friends had an immediate issue with his new Tesla that was fixed and since then nothing. Another friend (who accelerates flat out all the time) experienced the gear whine at 50,000 miles and Tesla swapped it for free quickly. Things that will last a lot longer than other cars: the brakes. Some people think they will last for the life of the car because most of the braking occurs by lifting your foot to decelerate (it recharges the battery by sending energy back from the motors into the battery). Usually you touch the brake at speeds less than 5 mph. The motor - there is only one moving part and no oil changes or lubrication required. The transmission - only one gear as opposed to the crazy complexity in gas cars. The cooling system - it operates at much lower temperatures to cool the battery than it would when trying to cool a hot engine. Spark plugs, air cleaners, ignition systems, etc - non-existant on the Tesla. There is no engine to "service" under the "hood". Switches? Almost everything is controlled by the huge touchscreen which means zero wear. Any software problems can be fixed over the cell connection that is free for life and virtually always connected. If that computer fails? Just swap the thin center touchscreen/computer assembly out in a few hours. Incidentally the sophisticated computer controlled all wheel drive with 500 treadwear base tires mean that there is quicker acceleration while maintaining minimal wheel spin on any surface which is safer and all this makes tires last longer and also avoids the need to rotate tires (based on my observations so far). My problems in the first 10,000 miles: zero. Did I mention that I’ve been driving for free on the free-for-life Tesla charging? Also I have been letting the car do 90% of my heavy traffic commuting here in LA since the recent release of Autopilot. It’s a revelation on the 405 in rush hour
Yet no effect on Tesla sales: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/news/2014/08/consumer-reports-tesla-model-s-has-more-than-its-share-of-problems/index.htm
We've had our Model S for almost two years. The only issue we've had was with the tire pressure sensor. It would say we had low pressure when we didn't. Tesla came out to where our car was parked and replaced a wifi antenna. Who knew tire pressure sensors use wifi? In any case once they replaced the wifi antenna with a newer design that problem went away (except for when we got a nail in the tire). The limited experience with Tesla service has been amazing.
Other than that - 0 problems. No noises, rattles or squeeks. No charging problems. No drivetrain problems. It just works. We paid a couple thousand extra to extend the warranty from 4 to 8 years, so if my knocking on wood right now doesn't work, at least I won't have to pay for a long time. The warranty covers everything except tires. Even windshield wipers, and brakes are covered.
There may be 100,000 reasons not to buy a Tesla, but from our experience, reliability and maintenance is not one of them.
Greed is the root of all evil.
I own a Porsche. It's a factory restored '78 911 in Targa trim. I own a whole, absurd even, lot of cars actually. I'm what you might call a car geek. Are you *really* comparing a Leaf to a Porsche? Really? Either your Porsche is a piece of shit (and you should sell it to someone who will properly care for it) or you have no idea why one would want to own one to begin with.
Well, I guess, from a practical standpoint you're correct. However, if you own a Porsche for practicality reasons - you're doing it wrong. Err... I don't suppose you want to buy a Porsche? 46,000 miles, mint condition, and I'll take 80 for it. 70 if you throw in the Leaf.
Seriously, it's not like I use it to go buy groceries. I don't even drive it to impress my neighbors. I don't even really drive it except a few times a year and then mostly only to a couple of shows down in West Gardiner. I almost always take it down to the last show of the season (Thursday night, nice place off of 201 in W. Gardiner - good people, too) and there's an unofficial smoke show at the end of the last show for the year. It usually means needing to buy new tires. ;-)
Lemme see you do that in your Leaf... I need a better hobby. At least I own absolutely zero trailer queens - they all get used at varied rates. On a more on-topic idea, I will be buying the next model Tesla with the extended range features they're claiming they will have. As a car aficionado, how can I not want a Tesla? It won't be all that practical in my neighborhood but it will get its fair share of use. Also, I want to play with Ludicrous mode. Just think of me as an overgrown five-year-old.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
That's only true at low speeds. At highway speeds, 3/4s of vehicle noise comes from tires on the road (trapping pockets of air as they roll), not the engine. That's why those sirens on EVs like the Leaf can shut-off above 35MPH, and why you still don't want to live near a busy road in an all-EV future...
Some design changes to roads have been tested, but the improvements are small.
If you want a notably quieter future car, you need to hope airless tires advance quickly and eventually surpass current pneumatic tires everywhere.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
So, the most prevalent complaint is that the car is too good, such that you can notice minor defects that would be undetectable in a petrol car.
Man, if these are not first world problems, I don't know what is.
"I can hear the electric motor in my expensive electric car."
"The handle of the door doesn't come out to meet my hand when I walk up to my expensive electric car."
If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
I have to wonder how many of the people are showing off their 'ludicrous mode' to their friends. My guess is that people that drive normally will have few problems with their Tesla.
love is just extroverted narcissism
Now, I'm no fan of Tesla. I think it's mostly Musk and all the fanbois are so insufferably smug, but lets be fair. A Porsche also doesn't weigh as much as a massive pickup truck.
The model S is impressively heavy. I think the ones with the large battery pack weigh over 5000 lbs. That is not sedan weight class there.
So, what's your point? My 6,000lbs. truck, that can tow another 11,000lbs. comes with massive discs and pads. The breaks are designed to effectively stop greater than the design load under all circumstances. As someone you drives their truck like an F1 car, braking late, braking hard, braking often, I've never had a warped rotor or unusual brake wear. I have however had Honda's and Acuras that would warp rotors if you looked at them sideways.The fix, fat rotors.
Like OP stated, if the rotors warp, it is a design failure. The car needs bigger brakes!
Just as Tesla appears to be ready to start offering non-leather interior to those with PETA-fied concerns about animal products, perhaps Tesla should also consider taking one step backward by offering knobs and physical switches and maybe mechanical door handles, too... and maybe offer a menu of which high-tech bling they want in their car, for drivers that yearn for retro... or, maybe just greater reliability. As a matter of fact, I am an EV driver already, and want to get a Tesla myself, but with fewer things to go wrong.
Have YOU tried stuffing a GREASED UP YODA DOLL up your ASSHOLE?
PS -> it feels GOOD, doesn't IT?!
That this article gets press the same day Ferrari goes public and talks about competing/mimicking Tesla & the silicon valley "auto makers".