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UK and US Suspect That ISIS Bomb Took Down Flight 9268 (cnn.com)
An anonymous reader writes with a report from CNN that U.S. and UK intelligence agencies believe it is more likely than not that the destruction on October 31st of a Russian A321 jetliner in Sinai "was most likely caused by a bomb on the plane planted by ISIS or an affiliate of the group." Kogalymavia Flight 9268 fell apart in flight, killing all aboard. From CNN's article:
The British government announced Wednesday that it had "become concerned that the plane may well have been brought down by an explosive device." A formal conclusion has not been reached by the intelligence communities of either country. An UK aviation team is travelling to inspect the Sharm airport to look at whether there were proper security measures at the airport and the various scenarios by which an explosive device could have made it to the Russian airliner "including a person or in cargo," according to the British transport minister.
Both Russian and Egyptian officials discount the claim, but detecting bombs is hard.
...or gross maintenance negligence. Given that Russians and Egyptians are involved...
Looks like Vladimir got his Vietnam, or wait, no Afghanistan, maybe Iraq? I feel like we've been down this path before...
to put a bomb on his own country's plane to justify even greater craziness in the future.
More likely than not most likely!
Don't discount the possibility of an accident. Something very similar happened to China Airlines flight 611
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
A tail section badly repaired after a minor accident came off in mid-air. The airplane spun out of control and disintegrated before crashing into the ground. That fits this accident very well.
Without conclusive evidence of a bomb, I would be very careful to scream terrorism. Terrorists claiming responsibility doesn't mean a thing without evidence.
Given the track records of these two agencies I'm not convinced, not by a long shot.
So although the experts don't know what caused the crash, it seems that the British PM David Cameron does know, and it's ISIS.
In other news, Cameron wants British airstrikes on ISIS but can't get the support of parliament.
No matter how much I tell myself that correlation is not causation, this just looks like too much of a coincidence.
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Not after the fact. If there was an explosion inside the cabin or luggage compartment, there will be internal paneling, structural members, etc., blackened and bent and peppered with explosive ejecta littering the deserts of the Sinai. That debris will look radically different from a structural failure due to metal fatigue, composite fairlures, bad repairs, etc., and will be in the wrong place to be the result of a fuel tank explosion. (And, an internal bomb will bend things out, while a missile strike will bend things in.) Making this determination in a case like this (where all of the debris should be easy to find) should be a straightforward case of air crash forensics.
The US is supposedly fighting ISIS for quite some times now, but it's only when Russia begins to act that ISIS decide retaliate by bombing a plane? Even stranger, the US say Russia is not targeting ISIS. So why ISIS decided to bomb a Russian civilian plane and not an American civilian plane?
The world is tired of security states, the TSA gets lambasted and suddenly there's a report saying ISIS did it! Do you think it will result in greater government monitoring and greater controls by the TSA and their international equivalents? Yes I understand TSA wasn't responsible for this plane.
I doubt Putin's megalomaniac belief that he is the savior of Mother Russia allows such an act. Only a Reagan-esk "the evil empire" would come up with suggesting such a scenario. Damn the reality distortion field of religious holy wars of all ilks. If Russia had planted the bomb, it would have been discovered and publicized by now (while it was still headline material.)
It's sad! The western media, with no personnel on the ground but with their respective government agendas to advance, report news with innuendos being taken as the truth by the consuming public.
No wonder none of them took their governments to task when Iraq was being bombed years ago.
Question: Who provides reliable truthful media reports in today?
There will be copious evidence of a bomb in the wreckage - from chemical traces to the way the fragments look. Enough with the propaganda from the IC.
We haven't had a bomb go off in a plane here in the US. Perhaps they want to take our TSA force and use it abroad. I mean completely--the TSA can leave here and go work in Russia.
Are these the same intelligence agencies that said Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction? Trillions of dollars and millions of deaths later, I am not so fast to accept this convenient accusation.
Quick, everyone! Let's invade... *spins a globe* Zimbabwe!
They were found a couple of days after the crash and so far, it's only "suspected" what caused the crash. One would think that the data of those black boxes would reveal what was going on.
On other plane crashes - to find the black boxes solved the cause of the crash and the reasons were published.
Now this this, what is taking so long?
Sure gives reason to speculation.
Because not all Muslims are violent terrorists? And not all Muslims wear traditional dress believe it or not.
The Master Of Muppets,
CAPTAIN: TAKE OFF EVERY "SIG"!!
When it's confirmed that ISIS or some other whackjob terrorist did this, I wouldn't want to be within 1k miles of that desert when it gets turned into glass from the big one dropped by Putin.
In that case, can you put it past CIA?
Wow, way to paint with a broad brush.
You know that Egypt's largest industry as % of GDP over the past 20 years has been tourism, right? And that millions of people visit every year wearing Western garb with absolutely no problem. Jordan,Turkey, Albania, Morocco, Malaysia, and until recently Syria and Iraq (before the West destabilized them and allowed fundamentalists to take over) are all places where wearing Western garb would be just fine.
In fact, walking through any major city in the US in Western garb, you are far more likely to be killed violently than you would be in many predominantly Muslim countries.
The simplest explanation is the obvious one, payback by Sunni extremists for the recent Russian military actions in support of a Shia dictator in Syria. Russian interest in Syria goes back to the cold war, it is home to Russia's only naval base in the mediterranean. Putin is nobody's fool, his actions make much more 'sense' when you realise that Syria is to Russia what Saudi Arabia is to the US. All four nations recognise they have a common enemy in ISIS and their allies, lets hope none of them lose sight of that.
I think Putin and Obama are smart enough to realise that ISIS would be overjoyed if they could arrange for the Russians and Americans to start shooting at each other in the middle east. AQ have used the same tactic against Pakistan and India in Kashmir. ISIS are a 'psychopathic' organisation, they arose from the remnants of Saddam's (Sunni) political base in central Iraq, their end game is a global caliphate with themselves at the top, that goal makes all nations states their natural enemy, in particular their Shia dominated neighbours, Syria and Iran (who are also aligned with Russia).
And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
A formal conclusion has not been reached by the intelligence communities of either country.
Am I the only one who is deeply concerned that a formal conclusion is in the hands of "the intelligence community"? How much of the government is now under the control of "the intelligence community?" Should traffic accidents be under a different jurisdiction?
I wouldn't be the least bit surprised that some guy on the internet is talking about his ass about some hand-waving conspiracy theories.
There you go again, proving to the world you don't know the difference between a group and some of its members. As not every westerner (dressed as such) gets hated, attacked or killed, I'd say your point is well and truly destroyed.
Hint: You won't make any logical sense when you start off on a very illogical footing.
I watched a few minutes of CNN last night, they were bringing on any asshole to try to talk up the idea of a bomb on the plan. Plans can actually have internal explosions not related to a bomb. The speed at which the British trotted this bullshit out was suspect. Either they had intelligence and didn't do anything with it, or it's just a propaganda game being run by intelligence services. Either way, it's just spitting in the face of reality that people died and an investigation is required without a predisposition for the conclusion to be a bomb.
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
He doesn't want to learn. He pops up in almost every thread to do with terrorism or Islam and spouts his nonsense. Sometimes the thread has nothing to do with that topic yet still he pops up, vomits his ill-informed hatred everywhere, and then disappears back into the sewers from whence he came.
Pretty much stopped reading there. I know where this ends.
Ivan the mechanic/baggage handler/pilot, just dumped by Irina because he hasn't been paid by the airline for the last two months, decides, screw those bastards, builds a bomb and says "take that".
Otherwise Airbus has some questions to answer. Hell, this could have been another frozen pitot tube, making the computer go crazy, or the repair from the tail scrape 14 years ago finally let loose. Personally, I am interested in the missing horizontal stabilizer and elevators were missing from the tail, never could see it from the published pictures so far.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
"Both Russian and Egyptian officials discount the claim"
You know the saying...Denial ain't just a river in Egypt...
A pox on web designers who feel that window.innerWidth == screen.availWidth
I think there are a couple things going on here. First off, Russia (as in Putin and the government) desperately wants this to be an accident or something they can at least claim to be an accident (and by accident I mean some massive mechanical failure of the plane where it spontaneously broke into pieces during the safest part of flight when cruising). A successful attack by ISIS is the last thing they want, because up to this point Russia appears strong and unassailable in their air campaign in Syria. If this was an attack by ISIS it shows that Russian people have been directly attacked and are vulnerable. So I would imagine Russia would drags its feet as much as possible in admitting it if this is indeed an attack by ISIS, although the direct involvement of so many other countries in the investigation may make that difficult.
The other thing going on is US intelligence. This crash happened in one of the most intensely watched areas of the world. Sinai is the buffer area that lies between Israel and Egypt. In addition to the US's spy satellites, drones, etc, Israel certainly has its own close surveillance of the region as well. It has already been leaked that US satellites detected a "heat flash" while the plane was at altitude. More than likely the US or Israel has direct evidence that a bomb went off in flight, but the information is too sensitive (for example, betraying just how good the US's surveillance technology is) that no one can officially and unequivocally state that it was a bomb.
That pretty much leaves one other semi-realistic scenario, which is that a repair made a long time ago has failed. Again, that is very unlikely, because a structural failure of that kind would happen when the plane is under maximum stress - during the take off and climb. Not when the plane is at altitude and cruising along with very, very little stress on the airframe. Further, pictures of the tail after the crash show the tail is still attached to the fuselage. The type of tail failures in the past with the Airbus (like flight 587) were the rudder, not the entire tail. With the Russian plane, the entire tail section was intact and attached to the rear fuselage, but separate from the plane. That is a gross failure of the entire fuselage itself, not the tail failing.
It's very likely that both the US and Russia already knows for certain what happened - if it was a bomb it would be extremely obvious from examining the wreckage.
Better known as 318230.
Putin can get away with what he's doing becaus the Russian people support it... Putin got away with what he did in Ukraine because he was able to keep the deaths of hundreds of Russian soldiers largely out of the press, and dismiss those who did tell their stories as full of shit.
Yes, the Russian people support Putin, but I'm guessing that a lot of that is because he controls the media and can manufacture crises at will. In short, I think the second sentence in your quote explains the first rather than the other way around.
Look at this plot of Putin's populairity rateing. His popularity had been slowly but steadily declining from 2008 to late 2013 -- dropping to a low of ~60% around the end of that period. What happens after that? A fortuitously timed olympics that stirred patriotism, and a manufactured Ukraine crisis to amp things up further. Putin's popularity jumped to something like 85%.
Yes, a 60% approval rating is high by international standards but is low by the standards of a media-controlling leader with authoritarian tendencies. I don't think it's a coincidence that a manufactured crisis followed a steady decline to a 60% approval rating. Perhaps he saw what was happening, decided 60% was a lower limit on what he would tolerate, and brilliantly boosed it after that. (He got lucky with the timing of the olympics, which would have boosted his popularity above 60% on its own since Russia did so well at the olympics, but maybe he decided that boost wasn't enough or would be temporary.)
Kind of like Benghazi was caused by a YouTube video?
Sure, whatever is politically most expedient must be the cause of bad stuff!
CIA, Saudis To Give "Select" Syrian Militants Weapons Capable Of Downing Commercial Airliners (link below). And we know all the arm drops the CIA has done hoping they get in the "right" hands has never landed in ISIS hands. Proxy war anyone? CIA payback for Ukraine or making the US look bad in Syria or.... http://www.zerohedge.com/news/...
That's guy's an ass. I wouldn't trust him.
You're sorely mistaken, if you think that. First of all, some "Muslim countries" are relatively secular and Egypt is among them. Second, tourism is such an important source of revenue that people there who work in the tourism industry are very willing to risk their own lives to protect tourists. Not just the armed guards around tourist attractions but even ordinary tourist bus drivers. But sure, it's riskier than going on holiday to yet another boring Western culture. However, if you prioritize safety too much, you're more likely to die of old age after a very boring life.
Well, isn't that convenient...
CNN unsurprisingly had been running hard with the bomb narrative even before they had any evidence of any kind to support it.
If people in the US government are making the claim a bomb took down flight 9268 then why the hell does this information have to be unofficially leaked to the media with no attribution? Is there no better way to communicate? The same person apparently hedges by saying "there has not been a formal conclusion" and uses weasel words like "definite feeling" ... WTF does that even mean?
The bomb narrative happens to be the most profitable one for both stated US interests against Russia's Syria adventures and CNN's ratings with all assertions carefully constructed such that they get to walk away when they are proven to be wrong.
I have no faith or reason to believe any of this conjecturbation. I'll wait for investigation by the grownups actually doing the work.
I mean going dresses as a Westerner (...)
Russians are not Westerners.
So, I'm supposed to believe that ISIS did it but unlike the other 10,000,000,000 things they've done they just conveniently forgot to release a polished video where some English-speaking nutjob pontificates on how they just struck another major blow to "the enemies of Allah"? Not buying it.
Remember the first rule of terrorist attacks: the problem isn't trying to determine *if* it was a terrorist attack, the problem is determining *which* of the 50 psychos taking responsibility for it actually did it.
Do you have ESP?
Not all Harlem residents are violent either (isn't Harlem gentrified these days?). Obviously, almost all aren't. But it only takes a few to make a violent crime wave.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Meanwhile more than three thousand people are killed daily in traffic accidents (1.24 million per year): http://www.who.int/gho/road_sa...
And cars are just getting more powerful and fast.
This is a Daily Mail article quoting Pravda, a Russian newspaper.
Disregard the sources above for a moment, not known for being the most objective. However, look at the photos. They do show what appears to be shrapnel piercing the body from the inside out. Gives credence to the bomb theory.
Other indicators:
- USA satellite is said to detect a heat flash, probably from an explosion (could be a bomb or could be fuel tanks exploding)
- Egypt replaces the airport manager (then say, not this was not replacing, it was a promotion. Really? Days after this incident)?
- UK and USA say terrorist group chatter confirms it.
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
Why would the US and UK need to comment on an accident on which they have no information whatsoever? The investigation is being carried by the Egyptians and the Russians. We need to wait for the official results.
If the US or the UK do have any information regarding a bomb, then they should disclose how they obtained that information, and since when. We dont need more fuzzy BS on "secret sources" and undisclosed informants.
which, coincidentally, further the government's aim of oppressing the population through fear. What are the odds?
ISIS doesn't really have a reason to attack Russia. Russia is only performing a small amount of their attacks against ISIS as they are more concerned with helping Assad defeating the rebel groups. Essentially Assad is concentrating on the rebels and leaving ISIS to the US and it's allies. The token Russian attacks against ISIS are just to basically to say that they are there to fight ISIS.
Going into tin-foil hat territory I could see Russia bombing the airplane and letting ISIS take the blame in order to drum up support for the battle in Syria.
Why would anyone go for a Holiday in a Muslim country?
You won't have a choice for long. They're quickly taking over civilized countries.
You certainly need to learn to practice what you preach Dave420 http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
You don't want to learn. You've been clobbered by this guy 50 times constantly making the same mistake you did here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...
What, crashing a plane with no survivors? I can put it past CIA, but I wouldn't put it past Bane.
How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
we need bad guys in order to justify "defense spending."
trick or treat gone terribly awry.
There were war games being done 40 miles away. Range of air-to-air missile is 150 miles. See http://82.221.129.208/shootdow... for a graphic of the map showing where the war games were and how far the plane was, and the maximum range of an air-to-air missile.
His site is http://82.221.129.208/ and also has good commentary on other subjects.
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.
You don't get it. Let me fill you in. Dave420 likes to get bitch slapped by apk regularly. Dave420 needs it. Fucked up as that sounds you read the weird truth of it yourself. It is hilarious that anyone could be that stupid but there you have it in black and white. Dave420 is truly that stupid.
LOL! That's Dave420 for you. We suspect he likes regularly getting bitch slapped by apk on a regular basis. He enjoys it.