Coming Set-top Box Mandate May Help Break Pay TV Firms' Hold Over Viewers (latimes.com)

Joe_Dragon sends a report from the LA Times about proposed regulations that could disrupt the cable industry's hold on consumers by targeting set-top boxes. These boxes are required to view most pay-TV programming these days, and consumers often require multiples if they have more than one TV. The rental fees add up to almost $20 billion in revenue for the industry each year. Yet the technology within these boxes is nothing special, and alternatives could easily arise if there was incentive to create them. "The changes aren't coming fast enough for some lawmakers and consumer advocates as well as tech companies such as Google Inc., which are eager to jump into the set-top box market. They want the Federal Communications Commission to require that pay TV providers make their services more easily compatible with third-party set-top boxes or similar devices. ... Such a mandate could allow consumers to access their pay TV and streaming services through one device instead of having to switch between two or more. And it could lead to innovations such as an ability to search for programming across services to determine, for example, whether a movie is available on Netflix or on-demand via a pay TV provider."

Comments

Tivo will do this already

[cruff]

And it could lead to innovations such as an ability to search for programming across services to determine, for example, whether a movie is available on Netflix or on-demand via a pay TV provider."

A recent Tivo can do this. It can show you the various sources from which a movie or series is available.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

This. Having Tivo is like living in the future.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[NotDrWho]

Yes, I was going to say that Cablecard technology was developed years ago with this in mind. The problem is that very few devices support it (Tivo being one of them). There was nothing to stop MS (or Sony) from putting cablecard slots into their console if they really wanted to do a "one device to rule them all." But most device manufacturers chose not to.

The only downside of Cablecard is that you have to get the cards from your local cableco. But there aren't many practical ways around this.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[gstoddart]

And, just like happened when Cablecard came out ... the cable companies will do everything in their power to make sure it doesn't work ... either they'll just dig in and refuse, or they'll just add on additional fees.

If anybody thinks the cable companies will allow this to happen without trying to gouge people and make up the shortfall, they're delusional.

The cable companies simply don't give a crap about consumers. They never have, and never will. And they sure as hell aren't going to make it easy to stop paying them.

Honestly, all they have to do is seem so grossly incompetent as to not be able to make the system work. And that should be shockingly easy.

But don't start thinking this will work any better now than when cable cards came out in the first place.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[bobbied]

Actually the problem with CableCard is that there is but ONE way to use one as a DVR and get past all the DRM rules and that's Windows Media Center, which was last supported on Windows 8 and will NOT be supported going forward. Yea, you can play stuff, but you cannot record it for later use (for those channels who have full protection turned on).

Yea I know you can go out and buy a TiVo but for the love of money that's expensive if you need enough of them for every set in the house. I also am looking forward to the Silicon Dust development effort, but that is so much vaporware right now.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[cruff]

The only downside of Cablecard is that you have to get the cards from your local cableco. But there aren't many practical ways around this.

On the upside, the last time I had to do this with Comcast (Colorado), it was pretty painless. Just walked into the local Comcast storefront, stated what I needed, had it within 5 minutes. Called to activate it, was fully functional within 5 minutes of the call.

Re: Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

ROKU does this too.

Re: Tivo will do this already

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

Apple has a patent on universal search.

Apple's patent is invalid. The company Ck3Kl0t from Alpha Centauri registered that patent roughly two millennia ago.

Fight for your bitcoins!

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

That is shocking, with Comcast, TW, and even Cox which has customer service well above the rest in my area at least and all of them the cablecard did not work on the first try. It always took at least two or three calls before we could finally get it activated. I can only imagine what would happen if I used the cablecard slot in my modern tv.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Jhon]

"The cable companies simply don't give a crap about consumers. They never have, and never will. And they sure as hell aren't going to make it easy to stop paying them."

You are correct. They don't care about consumers. They do, however, care about money. A lot.

We "cut the cord" almost 2 years ago. We only have internet through our provider. Over the last two years we've received some crazy decent offers from them to "add on" tv service ($10/mo for basic cable) + a cable box (at no charge). At first, for a year, then 2 years, then indefinitely at no charge for the box.

They are bleeding money because they are bleeding customers. They'll change or they will die.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

They still charge $2 month to rent cablecards, ant it still requires getting the cable company's tuner adapter box to get all the channels, and it has to be rebooted once or twice a month because they keep loosing channels. Tivo isn't the only cablecard tuner, I have a Samsung GX-SM530CF Cable Box that's available on Amazon, it paid for itself after two years, saving what Cox charges for cable box rental.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[mrchaotica]

There was nothing to stop [manufacturers] from putting cablecard slots into [devices]

Well, nothing except for the fact that the entire CableCard standard and hardware certification process was controlled by the cable cartel itself, which had a vested interest in making it as difficult as fucking possible to actually get devices approved (except for the devices which were intended to be rented from the cable companies, which sailed through the certification process despite being among the shittiest electronics ever designed).

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, my set top boxes require a cable card. And if I had a cable ready TV with cable card available, the cable company charges for the cable card! So the spec would need to be REALLY specific.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[mrchaotica]

On the upside, the last time I had to do this with Comcast (Colorado), it was pretty painless. Just walked into the local Comcast storefront...

In other words, you as a CableCard user were treated as the second-class red-headed stepchild, by the fact that they forced you to actually go to one of their shitty stores and stand in line rather than mail you the device like they would for somebody asking for a set-top box.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Drethon]

I ended up dropping premium channels because they did not work with the cable card. Charter's loss for not working along.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[TheOldBear]

An amusing CableCard/Tru2Way anecdote was when the dev lab at my employer [a cable company] attempted to get a pair of compatible test TVs, the distributor balked as 'your local cable tv provider does not support CableCard'.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[CrimsonAvenger]

We "cut the cord" almost 2 years ago. We only have internet through our provider. Over the last two years we've received some crazy decent offers from them to "add on" tv service ($10/mo for basic cable) + a cable box (at no charge). At first, for a year, then 2 years, then indefinitely at no charge for the box.

This pretty much matches my experience. We've been "internet only" for nearly four years, and still get those offers. They're not happy campers....

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Joe_Dragon]

There where alot of Cablecard tv's and then came SDV that did not work with a lot of them.

And don't get started on comcast cable card billing mess.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[cruff]

In other words, you as a CableCard user were treated as the second-class red-headed stepchild, by the fact that they forced you to actually go to one of their shitty stores and stand in line rather than mail you the device like they would for somebody asking for a set-top box.

No, I chose to go over there myself. Needed to get out of the house anyway.

Re: Tivo will do this already

[tepples]

Apple has a patent on universal search

Then perhaps someone else can get the patent on columbia, disney, fox, paramount, and warner search.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

Glad yours was painless. Here, the cable card costs the same to rent as a set top box and on top of that is a $15 fee for having a 3rd party devices. Additionally, when I last tried to get one (before knowing about the extra fee), I had to go in person to an office 30 minutes away, the two girls at the desk had no idea what I was talking about and had to call a manager, who also had no idea what I was talking about and got out a big paper-filled binder of policies and whatnot to read through before finding it, then disappeared into the back for at least 15 minutes (I checked the clock on the wall after a while), and gave multiple boxes that were still shrink-wrapped together. To actually hook it up, I had to call a number and wait on hold for an support person, go back and forth, and got the first hooked up and I had to wait for the authorization to "propagate" through the network before it worked and even then it took multiple tries. The person on the line then hung up on me and I had to call back for the rest.

For what it is worth, reading this, I would expect artificial stupidity on the part of the people at the office, but the looks on their faces were so flabbergasted that if that were the case, they were professional actors. The people on the phone, however, where actively trying to steer me away from using the cable card, probably because if cable doesn't work, they are the ones who get the call about fixing it. AND on top of it all, if the cable service breaks and in their sole determination it was the fault of my equipment, rather than theirs, I have to pay for the service call: $20 per 15 minutes. Yep, totally painless.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[kheldan]

TiVo

More to the point, TiVo has Cable Card slots, which even supplied set-top boxes require for decryption. Otherwise the set-top boxes literally aren't anything special. Theoretically you could even own the Cable Card(s) and have the cable company do the configuring for their system.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

Tivo Mini. ~$150 per additional TV. 100% of the functionality of the main Tivo (streaming services, dvr connectivity, etc) and runs fantastically on a MoCa network just like a regular cable box would. Upside is you aren't paying $7-$15/month for it.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[tlhIngan]

Yes, I was going to say that Cablecard technology was developed years ago with this in mind. The problem is that very few devices support it (Tivo being one of them). There was nothing to stop MS (or Sony) from putting cablecard slots into their console if they really wanted to do a "one device to rule them all." But most device manufacturers chose not to.

The only downside of Cablecard is that you have to get the cards from your local cableco. But there aren't many practical ways around this.

CableCARD is a good idea. (See Canada for an example of what happens when they don't have a mandate to support it - crappy cable boxes that you have to buy from the cable company - they will not activate any boxes that was not obtained from them - doesn't matter if it's the exact same box, if they didn't sell it, they won't activate it. And doesn't matter how you came about it - moving from one area to another, buying it in the US, etc. Oh yeah - all boxes have CableCARDs in them. And life sucks for TV.).

However, the problem is that it only covered cable systems, which wasn't a huge problem back when it was conceived a decade ago. But these days things are a lot more different and modern, and things that were unlikely a decade ago are common now.

So the new mandate would be basically a box that converts the signal into a common format - it doesn't matter how it originates - cable, satellite, telephone, IP, whatever, it goes into the provider provided box which decrypts and provides the channels you paid for into a common format that can be handled by a universal set top box that doesn't care how the signal came to it, just it can be tuned. So you don't need a "TV" - it could be your smartphone and tablet too. Or it can go to a universal DVR that records programming your way.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

You're lucky. My parents would pay $5 a month for a CableCard; that's the same price as one of the cable company's receivers. And the receivers shed channels periodically and have to actually be replaced, because even a reboot doesn't fix it.

Basically, the cable companies saw the digital transition as an opportunity for a money grab, and all the customer loss is a direct result of them charging more than the market will bear.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

The cable companies did everything they could to make cable card not profitable for OEMs. It can take near a year to certify a device. Every change you make to that device (including firmware) can require another round of certification. While Comcast and others are perfectly fine milking rental fees out of decade old stb designs, the entire point of third party devices is to push out new technology faster that competitors. Even something as simple as embedding a cable card tuner in a tv could delay the yearly refresh cycle and make the manufacturer miss the beginning of new model years. It's even worse if you're looking at the connected device market. Imagine not being able to push out security fixes for six+ months for a media hub device. Or add support for some new nifty service.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Coren22]

As the sibling AC pointed out, Tivo Mini can be used on any TV, and it connects back to the main Tivo. Tivo Romeo now handles 6 tuners, and up to 4 Tivo Mini. It works well over MoCA, Wired network, and even utilizing a wireless bridge, but for some reason, they won't allow the Tivo Mini to use wireless only.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[phoenix_rizzen]

We cut the cord 2 or 3 years ago, switching to an Internet-only package at a drastically reduced rate (compared to what we were originally paying). We try to keep the costs to around $ 80/mth, while getting more than 25 Mbps (currently 60 Mbps).

Every year, they offer us a triple-play package (basic cable + 1 or 2 channel packs, VoIP phone service, bump up a tier in Internet) for 6 months at no additional cost. We take it, mainly for the bump in Internet speed, and then cancel everything back to Internet-only after the 6 months is up. :)

We've done that 3 times now. And every time we cancel, we let them know it's because of the ridiculous pricing they charge for cable packages. Hoping they'll eventually get the message that their cable costs are driving customers away ... but not holding my breath. :D

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

Same here (sort of). I only have internet via Comcast (and TV via Dish.. haven't cut that off completely yet). comcast keeps sending me flying for Business Class and also for their X1 setup saying only $29 for the first 24 months including the 120Mbps internet (which is the speed that I have now).

It really makes me wonder how bad they're screwing their others customers to get me that $30 price

Re:Tivo will do this already

[bobbied]

Yes, I'm aware of TiVo's but they are EXPENSIVE and require a monthly fee.

The cable company charges me $12/month for a basic set top box and $25/month for a DVR. If you use the "whole house DVR" option they hit you up for $50/month plus the standard $12/month set top box fees. So for whole house DVR on three sets it cost you nothing up front, but $75/month or $900/year.

The TiVo DVR is going to set you back $200 plus $15/month for 4 tuners or $600 and $15/month (after the first year) for 6 tuners. The Mini is gong to set you back $150 per set top. Which for me is two set tops and the main DVR (three sets) or $900 up front plus $180/year after the first year. So they are break even with the cable company the first year and $700 to the black after that.

My Windows Media Center solution cost me $100 for the tuner, $200 for the media server DVR hardware and it worked with my existing Xbox 360 so I only needed to buy another used one for $100. So for $400, I'm all in for three TV's and have zero monthly fees (for now). That puts me $500 in the black the first year over the cable company, and $900 in the black every year after that.

I'm willing to let the monthly TiVo fees slide, because it's unlikely Microsoft will continue to provide the programming guide data forever at no cost, but the up front costs pretty much took me out of the TiVo market. That may change should the programming guide become unavailable, but for now TiVo is the more expensive option for me.

Thus my statement "Yea I know you can go out and buy a TiVo but for the love of money that's expensive.." TiVo is a nice product, but it's a pricy one too and so far the only "roll your own" software that does all the DRM stuff comes from Microsoft..

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

The problem with CableCARD is that no one liked it. The cable companies hated it. The CE mfgs hated it. Consumers hated it. It was difficult to implement correctly and in its original form it was quite limited. TiVo is one of the few(the only?) CE mfgs to implement it correctly.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[wyattstorch516]

Why would anybody wait for a box in the mail when they can just take a short trip to the cable center and have it the same day? What a stupid complaint.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

Please let it be the latter... with no 'we're too big to fail' BS. Perhaps as they start to bleed out the barrier for entry will lower a bit, and more competition can come in.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

They'll change or they will die.

My guess is they will die.

Which will be kind of tragic because they will leave a void behind that it may take a few years to fill.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[Anonymous Coward]

Which will be kind of tragic because they will leave a void behind that it may take a few years to fill.

Perhaps, but it'd be a tragedy of their own doing. Given how they act with their customers, people wouldn't cry too much I don't think.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[lister king of smeg]

They'll change or they will die.

My guess is they will die.

Which will be kind of tragic because they will leave a void behind that it may take a few years to fill.

I doubt it would take years, it will be much faster, You have Netflix, Hulu, Amazon, HBO-GO, Crackle, Youtube(Red), Vudu, Red-box, iTunes and more all hosting content. The larger content farms (Netflix, Hulu, Amazon,) are all making original content now. The Movie Studios are all still pumping content out like there is no tomorrow (they claim that they are getting less money but that’s the Hollywood accounting at work and as well as a way to attack piracy) Big cable/satilite will die because no one wants to watch their 500 channels of shitty reallity show and paid adverts. But the studios will survive and the big old networks will survive because of news/sports/weather/local/people that cant afford faster internet and higher data caps.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[xrobertcmx]

What they do, and I can this from first hand knowledge, is make it impossible to use. I had Verizon FIOS for years in Northern VA. I had a Cable Card plugged into an HD Homerun Prime and connected to my MythTV backend. It worked perfectly, no on demand, no pay per view, but who cares. I move to North Carolina and am forced to get Time Warner, every single channel they can legally flag, is flagged copy once. I have a choice now of Windows Media Center or nothing. Ok, I make the switch, now I have picture quality issues, tuner issues, and compression issues. I call in and they simply blame my hardware. I went OTA and fixed the problem.

Re:Tivo will do this already

[xrobertcmx]

I used MythTV for years, you can also purchase the new DVR package from Silicon Dust (Who make the HD Homerun Prime)

Re:Tivo will do this already

[bobbied]

I don't believe the Silicon Dust offering is yet able to fully do the DRM protected content in the DVR part. But I have my eye on it.

Good.

[An Ominous Coward]

Good, hope this will accelerate a CableCard-like standard for IPTV like it did for cable systems. I love my home-brew DVR, and I'm not willing to switch to Google Fiber or AT&T UVerse until third-party TV equipment can work with their service.

Re:Good.

[bigpat]

Good, hope this will accelerate a CableCard-like standard for IPTV like it did for cable systems. I love my home-brew DVR, and I'm not willing to switch to Google Fiber or AT&T UVerse until third-party TV equipment can work with their service.

Yes, paying $18 per month "rental" for a $100 device really sucks and it feels like the bad old days of Grandma renting her phone from The Phone Company for $10 per month. The encryption keys can and should be simply software based...forget the CableCard, they still have those supposedly and nobody uses them because they don't offer key services such as the channel guide, VOD, etc. It could be so much simpler and you could just register your device ID and an open standard protocol negotiates the keys to unlock any encrypted content and the cable companies could provide the other services in a more standard way that encourages hardware competition.

The cable companies are too big.

Re:Good.

[kbdd]

"Yes, paying $18 per month "rental" for a $100 device really sucks" Totally agree, even more so considering that when integrated into the TV, the cost is probably more like $20. I looked at SAM's Club over the week end, and the "smart TV" versions of otherwise "non-smart" TVs in the 40" range cost about $40 to $60 more for the "smart" TVs. The hardware for a smart TV is more than capable of dealing with the cable data. Another advantage of having the hardware integrated into the TV as opposed to a set top box (even a universal one) is that you only need one remote.

Re:Good.

[Joe_Dragon]

Google Fiber / AT&T UVerse / comcast gigabit pro / others lock you into there gateway and if this pan's out they can just jack that fee to $15-$20

Re:Good.

[wyattstorch516]

The story has nothing at all to do with IPTV. The proposals would have no effect on that.

It's not set-top boxes that annoy me

[Anonymous Coward]

With a cablecard, other devices can decrypt digital cable without a problem. While the on-demand features aren't available, it provides the ability to view the normal channels. The problem is that my cable provider (Time Warner) abuses the CCI flag and sets every channel they possibly can to "copy once." I have an hdhomerun prime and only Windows Media Center is licensed to play content with the DRM. Any channels with the CCI flag set to "copy once" can't be viewed on anything other than Windows Media Center. That prevents me from viewing anything on my Mac or with open source software like XBMC. I'm far more bothered by the draconian DRM than I am by the set-top box. In order for this to matter, the DRM has to go.

Re:It's not set-top boxes that annoy me

[bobbied]

I'm not so sure the DRM has to go, but I think there needs to be multiple solutions that satisfy the DRM requirements.

Wondering out loud.... Could we not require cable companies to either turn off the "copy once" flag or have a viable freely available DVR solution that is certified to do the necessary DRM... Like having a closed source addition to the commonly available media solutions?

Re:It's not set-top boxes that annoy me

[Kjella]

Wondering out loud.... Could we not require cable companies to either turn off the "copy once" flag or have a viable freely available DVR solution that is certified to do the necessary DRM... Like having a closed source addition to the commonly available media solutions?

DRM relies on keeping a secret, being closed source is just a tool to obscure it. A small, closed source drop-in module would quickly get picked apart, the key(s) taken and the DRM broken. The more transparent the code, the more of the DRM must happen in hardware to be effective, like Firefox's DRM extensions. They don't actually contains the keys for anything, they just provide an interface to talk to the "trusted" hardware for keys. There is no DRM that can work in the open.

Re:It's not set-top boxes that annoy me

[Anonymous Coward]

DRM can't work period.

At some point, the audio/video has to be displayed to me.

The only question is what I am willing to do to copy that audio/video information.

Well, I suppose that's until TPP, TTIP, and TISA are ratified, but we're all fucked anyway by then.

Who cares?

[Roger W Moore]

Who cares? Cable TV companies hold on customers is already broken thanks to companies like Netflix. The only thing missing in North America is a service like iPlayer in the UK which lets you watch recently broadcast BBC programs when you want. The broadcast channels should switch over to the internet broadcast and providing services on demand. Having a box which merges broadcast with internet is just providing a crutch for what is rapidly becoming an outdated business model.

Re:Who cares?

[Jawnn]

Would that it were so. The cable (and dish) companies' hold won't be broken until a la carte programming is a requirement. There are, maybe, I dozen channels that would pay to see and which are not available on Netflix or the other current alternatives.

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

But services "on-demand" means even more spying and tracking. I don't want that. Distributing the content using bittorrent is better.

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only thing missing in North America is a service like iPlayer in the UK which lets you watch recently broadcast BBC programs when you want.

The BBC's remit isn't in North America, so how would that help? I like British shows well enough, but what are you expecting them to do?

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't blame your cable companies for that. Content owners require that low value, lightly watched channels get bundled with high value, heavily watched channels. And even if they did offer a la carte programming you'd wind up paying way more per channel for a smaller number of channels. It might bring down your bill a little if you don't watch and raise some other heavy watchers bills, but the end result wouldn't be nearly what you think it would be.

Until content creators just offer everything 100% streaming online all the time (for a fee of course), and cable companies become nothing but an internet pipe, things will continue with basically the status quo.

Re: Who cares?

[tommyjcarpenter]

RE Netflix, This just isn't true. We need more real time services. I'm a cable cutter, 5 years to date. I have Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Plex for downloaded shows. But you know what I still can't get? Things my wife likes. News when it happens on CNN. Ad hoc cooking shows on Food Network. Sunday Night Football on ESPN (live). Moreover, I am delayed on TV shows to the point that I must abstain from the water cooler. For example, I have to not talk to my friends for a year because I won't get the last season of Breaking Bad until a year after it airs (this has passed now, was just an example). Netflix, Prime, Hulu, and Plex go a long way for very cheap. But there is still a void, a void the cable companies still have me by the balls with because I still consider being their customer.

Re: Who cares?

[tommyjcarpenter]

+10000

Re:Who cares?

[Jason Levine]

Cable's hold on people is seriously cracked, but not broken and I say this as a cord cutter for the past 8 months. Cable companies still hold monopoly (or duopoly in some cases) control over wired, high-speed Internet access. They can and do use this to keep people from leaving cable TV for other services.

1) Bundle Pricing - Some cable companies price Internet Only packages so that they are more than Internet + TV. So if you only want Internet, you will likely take the Internet + TV bundle to save money. Then, even if you put the cable box in the closet and never plug it in, the cable company can count you as a subscriber in their quarterly counts. This makes cord cutting seems like less of a phenomenon than it really is.

2) Caps and Overage Fees. By setting a cap and then charging for use over said cap, cable companies are adding to the cost of streaming videos. Netflix might not cost you only $10 a month, now, but $10 + $20 in overage fees. Yes, this additional cost is coming from your cable company and not Netflix, but all the customer will care about is that using Internet Video services is costing as much as cable TV costs and thus (the cable company hopes) they will leave Internet Video for cable TV. Even if the customer doesn't leave, the cable company is now profiting off of Netflix's services. (The cable company claims of caps/overages being needed for network management have long since been disproved.)

So while the cable companies maintain their ISP monopolies, the hold of Cable TV won't completely break. The federal government needs to seriously investigate this abuse of monopoly.

Re: Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

So you are paying the same if not more having Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Plex if you pay the monthly.
Don't understand the so called "cord cutters". Cut off cable and get 1 internet streaming. ok I could see how it is cheeper. But everyone seems to get all 3 Netflix, Amazon Prime, and Hulu.

Re: Who cares?

[jedidiah]

What planet are you posting from? Netflix, Amazon, & Hulu all together are cheaper than any real cable package anywhere.

Plex is just free.

Even with what I buy from Amazon, I still spend less than I did with conventional cable.

Re: Who cares?

[Roger W Moore]

We need more real time services.

That was my point. But we need realtime on demand services via the network not via a cable broadcast box. That way you can either stream the live channel or, if you sit down half way through the news, you can watch it from the beginning only a few minutes delayed. While you can do that with a PVR you have to remember to set it to record in advance and you have to have lots of local storage. With something like iPlayer you don't have to do any of that.

Re: Who cares?

[amRadioHed]

You pay about $24/month for those three services. $28 if you don't want any ads. My cable provider's minimal plan is $20/month. For that $20 you get much less content, no HD, and no DVR or on demand viewing. My old cable plan was $60 a month, I get 95% of what I watched on cable for half the cost by using streaming services.

Re:Who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

Be careful what you wish for. Verizon Fios has rolled out "custom" TV packages, which consist of broadcast channels plus two subscriber-selected channel packs, each of which has ten to fifteen nonpremium channels. A bundle with phone, Custom TV, and 50-Mbps Internet at (the base speed) averages about $120/month + taxes and fees over a two-year contract. In 2010, a bundle with 35/35 (a no-longer-offered mid-tier speed), phone, and Ultimate TV (the top-of-the-line nonpremium package) cost about the same. But now Verizon bills for everything, including a $150 set-up fee (they used to wave it) and a router fee (never charged for it until recently). It costs $30 alone for the base equipment package.

My point? A la carte pricing doesn't -- and likely will never -- mean you choose which 20 or so channels you want in addition to the broadcast ones, but rather the at-best almost adequate groups they want to give you, hoping you'll keep adding packages at $10 each. Obviously, they will keep restructuring their offerings and fees to maintain their revenue stream. They have no intention of competing unless forced to at gunpoint, and even then they'll probably figure a way to wriggle out of it.

Re:Who cares?

[pnutjam]

Sling tv has a decent selection of channels for $20 / month. Looks like it works with the usual devices, chromecast, xbox, etc.

Re: Who cares?

[pnutjam]

Sling has a package that will address most of your issues. It's $20 / month.
Or you can go the vpn/torrent route.

RIP WMC

[primebase]

Pity this is coming as Microsoft is in the process of killing Windows Media Center once and for all. For all its faults and backwards feature creep (removing sports, Netflix, etc), it is still the only (or one of the very few?) non-embedded systems that can record and playback copy-protected video, which is kind of a big deal if you want to DVR those HBO series. I'd ditch it in a heartbeat if I could find another non-embedded, non-WMC alternative that could do this.

Re:RIP WMC

[bobbied]

No, Windows Media Center is the only one with the certifications necessary right now.

I hear that Silicon Dust is working on a solution that will have the full DRM certifications but so far I don't know how far away they are. I'm guessing they are trying pretty hard, because if they don't succeed with this, their main consumer business line will effectively be dead, so they are fighting for their lives.

Cablecards, WMC+Extenders

[cdrudge]

Cablecards were suppose to usher in the great revolution in consumer set top boxes, breaking free the need to rely on cable companies expensive STB rentals. Aside from Tivos, Ceton InfiniTV products, and Silicondust HDHomeRun Prime, there's really not much out there for a compelling consume device.

WMC was the only HTPC-related software that was certified to play encrypted non-copy-freely channels from a InfiniTV and HDHomeRun. And with many content providers/cable companies marking many/most/all channels copy-once, it really hurt the usefulness. Extenders for WMC were basically a non-starter, and with Microsoft killing WMC in Windows 10, it'll be all but dead in the near future.

Cable companies and content producers aren't going to let up on their demands for DRM/restricting content/etc. STB mandates aren't going to suddenly open up a market that was already extremely tepid. And even if the mandates were passed, cable companies will do everything in their power to find loopholes around them, actively discourage customers from using 3rd party devices, offering no support for them if not outright lying about being able to use them, or otherwise making it a PITA to try to use one.

Re:Cablecards, WMC+Extenders

[silas_moeckel]

Cable card was always doomed to failure, it was designed to fail.

You had to get the cable card from your provider, it took me 5 install attempts from comcast the first 4 they showed up with a DVR in the end I pulled a cable card from one of their cisco STB and got them to make it work in my tivo and then HD homerun. It should be no different than cable modems, get anything on their supported list. Now to keep things moderately secure probably need to keep the we load our firmware here bits isolated and otherwise jailed as to the users local network.

Copy once, WTF did we forget that whole time format shifting from the 80's? We need to be able to get DRM free copies of whatever we legally have access to. I rather liked the digital VHS firewire bits that got caned. In any event because it's higher quality etc etc etc does not make it magically something different. I have no problems with invisible watermarking. They can fight the fight to keep the watermarking from being stripped but that gives people back the same functional rights they had int he 80's.

Once you have the DRM gone the whole certified platform BS goes away. XBMC and similar can do what they like.

Really though I think it will take a lot more to get cord cutters back, they railed against it for too long. I'm not going to go backwards, I want more integration, netflix, google, amazon, hulu etc playing from within plex and the like. I want local copies of content, that shifts formats etc as needed (a phone may have a 4 screen but 4k video is wasted on it)

Re:Cablecards, WMC+Extenders

[bobbied]

How about we take this one step further than the Cable Card. Let's get the FCC to force cable operators to support FREE software that is certified. Make the Cable Companies provide free DVR solutions as closed source binary distributions (at a minimum) for a number of the popular media center replacements. OR they can turn off the "Copy Once" flag on all their channels...

Re:Cablecards, WMC+Extenders

[Anonymous Coward]

Cablecards only failed because of CableLabs which is nothing more then a wholly owned subsidiary of the Cable/TV industry that only exists to stifle invitation. To be able to use anything with a CableCard it has to be approved by CableLabs and at a cost of several hundred thousand per attempt company's simply give up leading to only a few nitch players willing to go through the hell of a process just to get a device full of DRM that will work. Until the monopolys that are allowed to control companys like CableLabs are broken up nothing will ever change and we will be stuck with the extortion fees from the TV providers just to be able to watch the shows they have forced to be encrypted.

Re:Cablecards, WMC+Extenders

[mrchaotica]

No kidding. Here's the only acceptable real solution: require that cable companies broadcast only in ClearQAM. Period.

If cable companies are given even an inch of DRM or hardware control, they find new and creative ways to fuck over everyone.

Re:Cablecards, WMC+Extenders

[silas_moeckel]

Were fairly far along on decoupling access with content. The ship has sailed they just don't get it yet.

Re:Cablecards, WMC+Extenders

[cdrudge]

It should be no different than cable modems, get anything on their supported list.

Their "support list " is Model XYZ cable card. Insert cable card. Doesn't work? Tough shit. This cable card works find in OUR equipment and the card is certified cablecard compliant...

That's basically what happened when M-cards came out and things were flaky for a while.

Copy once, WTF did we forget that whole time format shifting from the 80's? We need to be able to get DRM free copies of whatever we legally have access to.

Preaching to the choir, but content producers got their way once digital copies that could be copied an infinite number of times without loss in quality became economical.

Re:Cablecards, WMC+Extenders

[cdrudge]

You're funny.

I don't want the FCC or the CableCo to force support of anything 3rd party, let alone supporting software package(s). Make them do that and they'll just support the most basic, horrible, outdated software package that turns people off to the idea. And supporting one software over another is just favoritism towards that package and leaves any competitors, larger or small, out in the cold.

Re:Cablecards, WMC+Extenders

[wyattstorch516]

So anybody with a QAM tuner gets all content for free? Great plan.

Cronyism

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe this time cronyism will work out for you, but google is drinking from the poisoned well. Expect much more of this in the future.

This is how capitalism is ruined and free markets destroyed. That being said, not like they were all that free to begin with.

Re:Cronyism

[moeinvt]

I think capitalism is ruined by the fact that whenever we perceive a problem, the instantaneous reaction is always:

"Government needs to regulate ..." or "We need to pass a law..."

We should consider passing laws and regulations or imposing mandates only as an absolute last resort when every other solution has failed.
Gee, my heart bleeds for people who have to pay an extra few bucks or go through a clumsy interface to get their full dose of mind-numbing entertainment. Has our society really devolved to the point where we need Big Brother to get involved in THIS? Laws funded by confiscation of wealth and enforced at gunpoint so that it's easier and cheaper for people to access cable TV??? WTF?

Re:Cronyism

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

There's an old saying, "What this country needs is a good war."

Without any real problems (the West's worst medical problem now is too much food) lesser issues float up and take over their role as rage inflection points.

And of course they are nothing of the sort.

Re:Cronyism

[jedidiah]

Yes. Let's just compromise our values and allow the free market and personal property to be subverted just because YOU personally don't think that this instance of bad behavior is sufficiently bad enough.

Re:Cronyism

[Anonymous Coward]

Without any real problems (the West's worst medical problem now is too much food) lesser issues float up and take over their role as rage inflection points.

Yes, it's just terrible that solving huge problems allows us to focus on solving smaller problems.

If only we had some more of those huge problems! Then everything would be wonderful!

Good luck ...

[gstoddart]

The cable industry has far too much power, far too many lobbyists, oh, and did we mention they pretty much run the FCC these days?

There is simply no way in hell these companies will allow anything to happen which cuts into profits. They'll stop it dead in its tracks, or make anything so onerous and impossible that it won't actually work.

Since they mention this in the first paragraph ... this will be exactly like the old black rotary phone ... even if you no longer have it, they're going to gouge you for "touch tone dialing" and pretend like it costs them anything.

Which means they'll charge you whether or not you have their box, will charge you to connect your box to their stuff, will charge you for the privilege of connecting your box to their stuff and for maintaining the infrastructure, and will find all sorts of ways to keep gouging consumers.

These companies have strangleholds, and monopolies ... they sure as hell aren't going to accept any regulations which cost them money. They're far too entrenched and feel they're entitled to that money.

And they have far too many fucking politicians on the payroll whose job it is to entrench in law their revenues.

Re: Good luck ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I've been reading this same news story for over 30 years now.

Anyone remember tru2way?

This is garbage that will just increase your bill

[Revek]

Count on it. You can't have it both ways. Every step you take to strip a company of revenue will just increase your bill. To bad few are smart enough to see it. Cable set top boxes use encryption and technology that is usually limited to a few types of set top boxes. Forcing cable to replace those systems will increase your bill. I don't think it will hold up in court since many industries have similar practices. Float the idea at whatever your job is of starting to give away what they have been charging for and see the response you get from the bean counters. I hope you don't get fired for suggesting it.

Set *top* box?

[Mr Z]

So... does anyone actually put a set top box on top of their TV set these days? Once upon a time, TVs were deep enough front-to-back to support this; these days, most aren't.

Or is this a term that was once accurate, but will never be accurate again, like "dialing" a phone? It's been a long time since phones had dials, unless they're being purposefully retro.

Re:Set *top* box?

[gstoddart]

You know, at a certain point, the language doesn't change just because the technology does.

No, my cable box isn't on top of my TV.

But people still "tape" shows, "dial" the phone, "film" an event, "rewind" through a movie, and all sorts of things.

Something comes along, it becomes the word used to describe something, and it becomes part of the language. Over time the underlying technology changes, but people have no interest in changing the language.

Re:Set *top* box?

[Anonymous Coward]

So... does anyone actually put a set top box on top of their TV set these days? Once upon a time, TVs were deep enough front-to-back to support this; these days, most aren't.

Or is this a term that was once accurate, but will never be accurate again, like "dialing" a phone? It's been a long time since phones had dials, unless they're being purposefully retro.

If you have any sort of quasi-premium service or certain provides (aka U-verse) a set top box is required to decrypt the signal. Suddenlink, for example, requires a set top box if you want HD signals, ESPN or the premium channels; U-verse requires a set top box if you want anything from them and it is required on every tv.

And I would hazard a guess that most of the rest of pay services are the same, unless you are just getting the local stations.

Re:Set *top* box?

[asylumx]

Well, your car still has a dashboard even though nothing is being dashed at you. In fact, we use "dashboards" all over in technology now, to mean a set of gauges and readouts, which has nothing to do with its original meaning.

Re:Set *top* box?

[Anonymous Coward]

It was the switch to digital cable were we once again needed the lame little box for every TV, it made my homebrew DVR useless practically overnight. A DVR that can't change the channels itself with it's own tuner is pretty useless and some really annoying boondogles were needed to get the computer to send an IR signal to the little cable box. Also before that box became required I could have multiple tuners in the PC recording at once.

Re:Set *top* box?

[Mr Z]

Does this box sit on top of your TV? Or does it sit below it, next to it, etc.?

Re:Set *top* box?

[Mr Z]

I admit to being a bit of a smartass. :-) Our language is rife with these fossils.

Re:Set *top* box?

[Passman]

Well my cable box is sitting on top of a TV. Not the one it's hooked up to, or even one that works for that matter, but it is still technically a "Set-top Box."

Re:Set *top* box?

[david_thornley]

The cats were disappointed when we switched from CRT to flatscreen monitors. I never did figure out why the tail absolutely had to go down the front.

Re:Set *top* box?

[Mr Z]

Niiiiice. Something tells me, though, your setup is unique. :D

Re:Set *top* box?

[Mr Z]

Maybe they like the clingy feel of the static on the CRT. Or maybe, it's just cats being cats. I know mine like getting between me and the monitor.

FTFA a big laugh

[Whatsmynickname]

"There is no quicker way to disrupt this vibrancy that is creating the greatest TV programming in the world than for the government to try and fix something that isn't broken," said Brian Dietz, a spokesman for the National Cable & Telecommunications Assn. trade group.

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA (pounds table) HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA ... oh ah wow good one...

The Verizon FIOS Arris media set top box is the biggest piece of shit ever. Shittiest programming. Just try to change a channel, and watch the how long it takes for the box to respond. Try to enter a number and watch digits drop. Glitches galore in the video too. And just TRY, yes TRY to call Verizon on it and see if they give a shit. Yeah some vibrancy and user experience. The only thing vibrating is in the CEO's wallet.

Re:FTFA a big laugh

[blankinthefill]

I beg to differ. The new Comcast Xfinity X1 boxes are the biggest pieces of shit ever. Super slow, unintuitive, and full of bullshit like not allowing you to rewind a current show if you're not using the 'main' box (of which you get ONE per house, so good luck if you have 2 or more TVs!) It also drops connection regularly, and god help you if it gets turned off. You won't have TV again for at least 20 minutes, maybe more. Of course, Comcast's solution to all of this is 'don't ever turn it off, and all the other stuff is just the way it is, sorry, not sorry.' The most heartbreaking part though, is that when you look at it, it's got great ideas. The basic design is there, and it had the potential to be really amazing. But the implementation is SO BAD that none of the good about the system comes through. I think that's what I really can't forgive Comcast for about the X1... they built my hopes up, and then crushed them mercilessly beneath their cold, unfeeling heal. One would think I would be used to it by now. *sigh*

Re:FTFA a big laugh

[Quince alPillan]

The sad part is that the X1 boxes are an upgrade from the old boxes that didn't even work properly on 1080p televisions.

Good luck getting on demand programming to work properly on those. Most of the time they would crap out with some unknown error that Comcast couldn't fix over the phone.

Re:FTFA a big laugh

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes. My X1 cable boxes are the buggiest, pieces of crap. They constantly lock up, requiring I power cycle them. Booting them does take 10-20 minutes. No idea why. About every two weeks, all of my boxes magically get closed captioning turned on (turning it off again is about 5 menu levels deep). And I get to pay rental fees for the privilege of having these pieces of crap. No choice of being able to buy something that actually has to function correctly to get people to buy and recommend it.

Re: FTFA a big laugh

[jhaygood86]

I assume your secondary boxes are RNG150s? Call Xfinity and have them swapped for Xi3s. They support rewinding.. As well as a lot of other stuff.. Plus they are smaller and use less power

Re:FTFA a big laugh

[operagost]

The old-school boxes are NEARLY useless for 20 minutes, too, because it takes at least that long for channel labels and listings to come up. You might think, "OK, I'll just watch something on my DVR," but OF COURSE FOR NO REASON WHATSOEVER it doesn't let you play your DVR either!

Re:FTFA a big laugh

[operagost]

I have one of those older HD DVR boxes and it does work "properly", but it simply doesn't have the capability of doing 1080p, just 1080i.

Re:This is garbage that will just increase your bi

[gstoddart]

Exactly ... take away one revenue stream, and they'll just tack on some new line-items to the bills to make that up.

Between their business people who will ensure they don't lose the money, and their lobbyists who will ensure it will never happen ... there is no way in hell those companies are going to allow any loss in revenue.

And they'll have enough politicians on the payroll to ensure their profits are entrenched in law.

No, there is plenty of choice

[Anonymous Coward]

Cablecards were suppose to usher in the great revolution in consumer set top boxes, breaking free the need to rely on cable companies expensive STB rentals. Aside from Tivos, Ceton InfiniTV products, and Silicondust HDHomeRun Prime, there's really not much out there for a compelling consume device.

"So aside from these three choices, there is really not enough choice for devices."

Or are you saying those three choices are no good? Each of them will do the job perfectly. Can't speak for Ceton or TiVo myself but have heard good things about cablecard capability of both. Have a couple of HDHomeRuns here; both work without complaint or crashing.

The Problem

The cablecard provisioning process stinks. Cox made it as easy as possible for us; they let us pick up the cablecard at their local store, and the reps on the phone knew exactly what they needed to do to make it work. But sometimes, the cable card just randomly stops working.

I love how my Windows HTPC costs nothing every month, cost only $300 to build in the first place almost three years ago. And I love that it does not lag on channel swaps like the Motorola DVRs that CableCo puts out. Being able to dump a 2TB HDD in there to cover as many shows as we wish to watch. Really great.

But having to call CableCo a couple of times to get them to send the magic signal to my cable card or whatever it is they do to fix the SDV tuning adapter...not for the feint of heart.

Re:No, there is plenty of choice

[jedidiah]

> Or are you saying those three choices are no good? Each of them will do the job perfectly.

No they wont.

When CableCards were first introduced, Tivo was seriously behind in terms of PVR devices. That's why people started using stuff like MCE in the first place. You're basically saying that ONE OPTION in two classes of device are fine. That's just two different monopolies. That's pathetic. That's nothing resembling a free market. Do you see only 3 choices of TV when you go to Frys? How about 3 choices of PC? How about 3 choices of cars.

It's funny the kinds of excuses people will make.

Re:No, there is plenty of choice

[cdrudge]

"So aside from these three choices, there is really not enough choice for devices."

Or are you saying those three choices are no good? Each of them will do the job perfectly. Can't speak for Ceton or TiVo myself but have heard good things about cablecard capability of both. Have a couple of HDHomeRuns here; both work without complaint or crashing.

In the case of TiVO, there's only one DVR STB option...them. It's whatever they want and if you don't like it, tough. Some option. Plus you get the option of paying an addtional $14.99/month|$149.99/year|$599.99/device lifetime (Oh what a deal!)

With Ceton and HDHomeRun, you have the choice of once piece of software, WMC, for copy-once channels. It's a dated list, but back around when I had my Prime, here was an example of the state of copy-once/copy-freely then. It's a mishmash between cable providers and even sometimes within the same provider in different locals there were differences. Search Comcast's forms for "copy flag" and there's a constant stream of threads about flags randomly changing for no reason, cards needing to be constantly "sent some signals to fix the issue", etc. Even if once you do get your box working then you have to make sure WMC works, all your drives are secured and compatible with PlayReady or whatever it was called, and then you could (hopefully) use WMC as a DVR. That is until Windows 10 came out.

meh

[Devoidoid]

I misread the headline as "Coming Sex-Bot Mandate" and therefore can't muster up any interest in the real story.

Re:This is garbage that will just increase your bi

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea but even so the alternatives to cable set top boxes are limited... and the set top boxes themselves aren't that great. I'd pay more for my bill just to have more options besides a tivo and 500+ for their lifetime membership.. a whopping 700$. Of course my bill already includes full cable TV and I just can't access it without the set top box... and it's included in my rent so I have no real choice but to pay it.

so yea, who cares? Options are good.

Cable and broadcast TV is done

[tomhath]

The only thing that keeps them alive is lack of broadband to some viewers. Once the infrastructure is completed the only way to watch TV will be over the web.

I have a better idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

How about just get rid of set top boxes altogether and harmonize on a single, open standard that any TV manufacturer can bake into the TV?

Re:I have a better idea.

[Anonymous Coward]

Because it already exists? It's called a CableCard. Tons of TVs accept them. No one uses them because it doesn't fucking work and the set top box adds a ton of value-added features that you just don't get without it.

Too little too late

[Anonymous Coward]

10 years after the industry has destroyed itself they come along with the legislation that couldve saved it.

Whats next... anti-monopoly laws to encourage diversity in FM radio programming?

Re:Too little too late

[jedidiah]

> Whats next... anti-monopoly laws to encourage diversity in FM radio programming?

We already had laws to prevent media consolidation. Clearly someone thought that enforcing anti-trust in that area did not represent a "serious enough problem". So those laws were done away with.

Now we have the fruits of media consolidation.

careful what you wish for

[known_coward_69]

right now i can take my time warner box into their store and exchange it for any reason. new boxes are expensive and if there is a problem time warner will just tell me it's my fault. they already have to buy a lot more boxes than they have customers and run the retail stores and support. people buying their own boxes is money saved for them

Re:careful what you wish for

[Drathos]

Money saved short term, maybe, but it's money lost long term.

Re:This is garbage that will just increase your bi

[Anonymous Coward]

... take away one revenue stream, and they'll just tack on some new line-items to the bills to make that up.

This is exactly what happened. I had been a (reasonably satisified) Comcast customer for years. I had four Tivos with CableCards, and no Comcast cable boxes. For years, that monthly charge was $1.50 per card, with the first one free. This year, Comcast decided they wanted more money. They changed my $1.50/mo fee to a $9.99/mo additional outlet device fee for each Tivo. I went from paying $4.50/mo to $29.97/mo for hardware. Each month I called to correct my bill, and for 4 months that worked. Then I finally went to an office where they confirmed that Comcast pricing policy is that you never pay to rent a box, you pay to connect it. Despite not giving me 30-day notice for a policy change (required by FCC) and not providing a line-item on my bill for each CableCard (also required by FCC), they made it clear that they planned to charge me $9.99 for each additional device I use, no matter who owned it.

I have never been so happy as when I called Comcast to cancel my service. I was particulary amused when the second account representative that I had to talk to before I could cancel even told me "No, CableCards should be $1.50 a month." Now I have Netflix and an OTA antenna getting me local channels. I pay ATT for DSL, but they seem happy without pushing to upgrade me, and I'm saving over $100/mo without cable.

Set-top boxes are great, but they don't compete with cable revenue streams, if they're just allowed to dance around how they label the fees they charge you. Actually cancelling service is the only way to tell them they're losing to the competition. And, today, you can do really well with the competition. My new Tivo handles search across recorded shows, OTA, and Netflix (as well as Amazon Prime Instant Video, but I'm not a fan of that service: there's no good way to only find the content included with Prime at no extra cost). Tivo even has low-cost mini boxes for secondary TVs in the house, so it doesn't cost much get hardware for the whole house.

No business gives a crap

[Anonymous Coward]

No business gives a crap about their customers. The difference is competition. Where there is competition, businesses are forced to accomodate their customers, irrespective of giving a crap about them. The more competition, the more they must accomodate -- or go out of business. They don't have a choice.

Cable companies, on the other hand, have enjoyed something close to a monopoly for their entire existence. The less competition, the less they must accomodate. With little to no competition, it is entirely predictable that cable companies will gouge their customers to the highest extent possible.

Cage Match: Cable vs Streaming

[WhatHump]

We have one cable drop with a PVR in our family room, and our service is for the most basic cable package you can get. It's connected to a Samsung TV with some streaming capability (Netflix and a couple other services). This month I'm putting a second TV in our basement rec room and hooking up an Apple TV to deliver content. In six month's time I will ask everyone in the family (four of us) to give me a good reason why we need to keep the cable service. I'm predicting I'll be cutting the coax next summer.

Some ISP's force you to rent there gateway / modme

[Joe_Dragon]

Some ISP's force you to rent there gateway / modems that part also needs to be banded / part of the base internet rate. What will be the point of haveing your own box when there is a $15-$20 gateway box / fee on top of the base tv rate or even then saying to get TV you must buy our internet.

They also need to stop renting modems and just sell them / give them out for free to stop the Comcast billing errors where your owned modem shows up as being rented.

Also ban outlet / streams / mirroring fees as well.

On some systems for cable card users they have like an $6-$8 outlet fee for using one vs say a all $9-$10 fee to rent there box.

More compatible? just kill them off!

[JustNiz]

It seems clear that the set top box is basically just a signal converter used so the cable company can exploit customers further. Its clearly not anything you technically need, since OTA proves that multiple channels of digital TV can go through the air and over existing coax just fine (QAM), and all tvs I've ever seen on sale still come with a digital tuner.

Instead of coming up with a law to make cable boxes more interchangeable or whatever, they should make the law so that it eliminates them entirely. Apart from anything else, think of the energy and other waste savings.

Netflix has no sports

[tepples]

The only thing that keeps them alive is lack of broadband to some viewers.

That and the long-term exclusive contracts among sport leagues, pay television networks, and multichannel pay television system operators.

Re:Netflix has no sports

[tomhath]

Sports over the web (preferably on demand) would be far better than buying cable packages that are padded with garbage. Maybe netflix, maybe YouTube or ESPN, someone will win the next bidding war.

BBC Worldwide

[tepples]

I like British shows well enough, but what are you expecting them to do?

I expect the BBC, through its BBC Worldwide subsidiary, to set up an international subscription service analogous to iPlayer that shows any programme whose exclusive rights in a given country have not yet already been sold.

Alternative for news and sports

[tepples]

I can't help with the spoilers of scripted series or the Food Network. But for news, you could follow sources on the web, such as breaking news microblogs on Twitter. For gridiron football, you could visit a bar or a Buffalo Wild Wings restaurant.

Re:Alternative for news and sports

[jedidiah]

Scripted shows of any significance are available PPV on various streaming services.

Food Network simply isn't worth the balance between the cost of a couple of streaming services and the cost of a cable subscription.

Re:Alternative for news and sports

[tepples]

Scripted shows of any significance are available PPV on various streaming services.

How much does PPV cost for a few series compared to cable? And is it available the same night as cable, or does one have to avoid water cooler spoilers the next morning?

Re:Alternative for news and sports

[pnutjam]

sling has food network,

Re:Alternative for news and sports

[pnutjam]

I also get some extra shows by routing my netflix through different countries via a VPN. Use http://www.flixsearch.io/ to find out what's available in different countries.

disney channel needs to go premium as well espn

[Joe_Dragon]

disney channel is like X2 the cost of nick and it's mostly ad free.

also ESPN costs like $10 per sub now. Putting it in HBO / SHOW / MAX / STARS range.

Been there, done that...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's called a Conditional Access Module (CAM) it slots into a PCMCIA slot and contains decoders for a variety of encryption schemes, you feed it encryption keys by inserting a smart card from your provider. This is how most of Europe (and possibly Asia) gets its paid Satellite services.

Local government created this problem

[tepples]

In a free market, the solution is to take your business elsewhere. But here, local governments have contributed to the creation of a monopoly. When the city owns its roads and fails to efficiently manage and price rights of way, you have a government problem that the government is responsible for solving. Ideally, a city would bury generic conduits every time it resurfaces the roads and lease them to competing utilities, which can pull lines through those conduits as needed.

Cable still around

[Etherwalk]

The only thing that keeps them alive is lack of broadband to some viewers. Once the infrastructure is completed the only way to watch TV will be over the web.

Not really. People who are wealthy will have cable for decades yet. At some point It will become decoupled from the infrastructure, but they'll still have it. The biggest thing about it is still its role as a content aggregator, plus the fact that amazingly, nobody has the killer media search interface yet.

March Madness

[tepples]

In six month's time I will ask everyone in the family (four of us) to give me a good reason why we need to keep the cable service.

In four months, NCAA division 1 men's basketball playoffs. In six months, NHL and NBA playoffs.

Cable Modems

[ThatsNotPudding]

As I explained in my FCC complaint - you have filed one too, right? - I don't mind my provider (Cox) switching to all digital and thus requiring a box betwixt the actual cable and TV. What I do object to is not having the choice (CHOICE!) of buying my own 'tv' modem' in the market place instead of paying a lucrative monthly fee* for a box foisted upon me (and for each TV not hooked their existing DVR / box). Ironically, Cox has always allowed their customers to buy their own cable modems and use them in their system. Hell, the last new one I installed, I didn't even have to call Support; it was accepted after confirming thru the modems' web page. There is no reason whatsoever to not allow the same method on the TV side.


* - Considering how massive a buy Cox probably did to get enough boxes to cover virtually each customer they have, the cost per unit would be ridiculously low, allowing them to recoup their expenditure probably within 6 months. From then on, that $5 a month is just pure profit.

Re:Cable Modems

[fahrbot-bot]

What I do object to is not having the choice (CHOICE!) of buying my own 'tv' modem' in the market place ...

As far as I know, you can buy a Tivo and use it with Cox, but still have to rent the CableCard(s) from Cox. The latest Tivo systems even support a tuning adapter via USB for Switched Digital Video. In addition, the Tivo system will integrate with your Netflix (and possibly Amazon / other) accounts. I have friends in another city on Verizon FiOS who has a Tivo system and several Tivo mini-boxes in their house and it all seems to work rather well. (FiOS doesn't use SDV)

Renting a CableCard CAM costs money

[tepples]

USA has CAM as well, called CableCARD. It's just that renting a CAM costs almost as much as renting a cable box in many markets. Compare to phones: a lot of carriers charge you just for having an active SIM even if you don't use any voice minutes, SMS messages, or data. (Source: ting.com)

Rent Seeking

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never rented equipment for cable - always had the simplest service available and the TV was perfectly capable of decoding it. Then my provider decided to encrypt their signal, necessitating a "mini-box" for each TV. Because my wife was dying of cancer and the distraction eased her pain, I got them. They went back the week after she died, two months ago, now. I haven't missed TV, and won't. My wife, on the other hand, I miss quite a lot.

Go ahead, sell me something. I'll buy it and pay you for the service. Until you go for that deal, fuck you, Cox.

Coren22 likes telling lies

[Anonymous Coward]

"APK doesn't think that DNS servers are worth running and seems to believe that somehow Microsoft Active Directory can run without DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015 @12:58PM (#50811615)

Where'd I say AD will run minus DNS Coren22? I've said AD = internal network DNS dependent as far back as 2007 http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

(Searching this in BOLD "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers!" referring to OpenDNS suggestions for those using AD stupid in the POSTS BEFORE IT in my security guides for users (geared to stand alone single machines no less), & right there on that page proves it stupid - so even if you posted as myself someplace here on /. "impersonating me", I have your ass NOW, shithead!)

I've also stated MANY TIMES I use remote DNS in OpenDNS @ home (but not @ work on AD networks + exchange/outlook: Free OpenDNS model doesn't work with AD dependent Exchange + Outlook specifically you lying little imbecile).

I also don't hardcode in "every site there is under the sun" is why, so I have to use DNS, but OpenDNS & rarely.

I also RARELY MISS A LOOKUP since I put where I spend a good 95++% of my time online in my favorite sites into hosts @ the TOP of hosts for utmost LOCAL FASTER RESOLUTION SPEEDS and more reliability vs. Open DNS (not OpenDNS) resolvers being abused, Kaminsky redirect poisoned DNS servers (of which 99.999% of ISP DNS are not proofed against to this very day even though a patch exists which OpenDNS uses), rogue DNS servers, and yes ROUTERS with bushwhacked by malware DNS settings (happening a LOT lately).

Hardcodes in hosts are faster than remote DNS, waste less resources than local dns in power, cpu cycles, RAM, & other I/O by FAR considering ALL THE PARTS of such a setup in programs, data, I/O, & power (especially if setup as a separate machine).

APK

P.S.=> You're a disgusting liar... apk

Re: Coren22 likes telling lies

[Anonymous Coward]

If paid Slashdot accounts had the equivalent of Usenet kill files, I'd buy a lifetime subscription, just to avoid apk... He's a blight on the community.

Re: Coren22 likes telling lies

[Anonymous Coward]

You trolls don't like being caught lying and publicly eating your words for it. Apk does a marvellous job of exposing you fools.

Coren22 likes failing security & coding

[Anonymous Coward]

Coren22 says "hosts=bad" (they add security, speed, & reliability) & bitches on admin priv to UPDATE vs. threats:

"So, have you figured out why privilege escalation is a bad thing yet?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015 @05:15PM (#50577809)

Yet admits using admin priv

&

How else can I programmatically update hosts minus it in Windows?

---

"Of course it requires elevation to write to the hosts file" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015 @05:35PM (#50585879)

You FINALLY later admit there's no other way!

FACT:

Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best one) DEMANDS you use admin privelege (you saying it's "bad" too?) it can't do its job fully otherwise, like many security tools do!

---

Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET says hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...

Oliver Day (Symantec) does-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...

MalwareBytes' hpHosts hosts & recommends my APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

---

* HOW MANY SECURITY PROS DO I NEED TO KNOCK THE CHOCOLATE OUTTA YOU?

---

Those security pros INCLUDE me: I work w/ guys from malwarebytes' hpHosts on a regular basis!

I've professionally worked for decades as a combined domain-wide network admin & software engineer since 1994 (Even showing you HOW to migrate a hosts across an enterprise-> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... )

I've also been securing computers + WRITING GUIDES using CIS Tool (who took fixes from me http://slashdot.org/comments.p... - bonus) http://www.bing.com/search?q=%...

You told me you learn from guides?

I write good ones that MILLIONS USE & was PAID FOR IT http://pcpitstop.com/news/winn...

+ WARES TO PROTECT USERS that are endorsed & hosted by security pros -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

You did all that? No!

(& that's ONLY a SMALL part of what I could put out)

APK

P.S.=> You're all TALK -> http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & a "ne'er-do-well" in security... apk

Coren22 likes getting bitchslapped 65++:1

[Anonymous Coward]

"I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware. Good luck getting that removed." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

It's safe proven by 57 antivirus programs recently in BOTH its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

+

Its 32-bit model too https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

&

More "SALT IN YOUR WOUNDS" -> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

---

MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news...

APK

P.S.=> /.'ers say my work is good too:

"his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

"I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

"APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

"his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

... apk

Re:Coren22 likes getting bitchslapped 65++:1

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you hope to accomplish here? What do you think this series of spam posts will make happen that the dozens of identical posts you made in the last couple of weeks didn't?

Re:Coren22 likes getting bitchslapped 65++:1

[Anonymous Coward]

Hopefully apk makes a cure for Coren22's "outism" whose symptoms include lying, tech screwups, sigs + sockpuppetry like immature arrested development cases do. Apk's outing him so much in a merciful attempt to cure Coren22 of it.

Re:Coren22 likes getting bitchslapped 65++:1

[Anonymous Coward]

Once again, Alex, you're not fooling anyone by talking about yourself in the third person. You don't have fans cheering you on.

Now please answer the question. What are you hoping to accomplish by spamming?

Re:Coren22 likes getting bitchslapped 65++:1

[Anonymous Coward]

Payback. Look at coren's signature which he changed due to apk catching him in a lie on that quote about ad. Coren did it for who knows how long and has it coming back at him now.

Re:Coren22 likes getting bitchslapped 65++:1

[Anonymous Coward]

Same thing coren22 does w/ his signature but apk shows coren22 lies, is technically incompetent + butthurt quoting coren22 to do it destroying him for it with facts and technical data that's solid vs. coren's lies and errors. That's apparent to normal people. A dunce like you can't comprehend it. He doesn't need fans or supporters like troll worms do. Apk annihilates you by the hundreds with truth and fact.

Forced rental.

[daq man]

Not a moment too soon. I had two rented set-top boxes that cost $20 each per month so $480 per year. They hadn't been changed in three years so that's $1440 paid. When I finally replaced them they wanted the old ones shipping back. UPS was slow delivering them due to bad weather and I got an email to the effect that if they didn't arrive within 30 day's I'd be charged $300 each of them. So $600 for three year old hardware (full of dust and stuff) that I'd already paid $1440 for! Fortunately they did arrive several days late so I didn't have to wrangle with Verizon over the charge but it's the principle of the thing.

Someone will probably point out that that is why you don't rent stuff, you pay over the odds and in the end don't own anything. I agree, but the cable companies are a monopoly you can't do anything other than rent.

Imaginary hold

[Anonymous Coward]

I cut the cord two years ago. I have OTA, and Netflix. Total cost 8.99 / mo.
When I had satellite I had 190 channels @ $85 / mo. Of those my family watched maybe 5. And when we did watch the commercial to content ratio seemed like it was approaching 1:1. I'm paying for this? To be advertised to constantly? No thanks. Keep it. The only way I'll ever go back to network TV that I'm going to pay for is if they get rid of commercials, and let me pay $5 /mo or less for each channel I want to watch. Otherwise, not worth it to me.

CableCard

[mattack2]

Umm, CableCard has been out for a very long time now.. and as other posts mentioned, Tivos can already do much of this (including VOD and PPV, though I've never used the latter).

Re:CableCard

[MoarSauce123]

Yes, but CableCard comes with monthly rental fees as well that are in no way reflecting the manufacturing and maintenance cost. I looked into getting a CableCard and suitable tuner card for my PC....the tuner card is ridiculously expensive but at least a one time expense. The CableCard cost as much in rental fees as an HD set top box. After calculating how much extra money that will cost me over a year I lost all interest, Plan B is to keep using torrents for the TV shows I want to watch and did not record because the rental fees for DVRs are equally unethically high. The industry supposedly only makes 20$ billion on this? I bet it is more and it is fees charged for a service that costs the cable companies absolutely nothing to provide.

Coren22 can't keep his word... apk

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject & links where I tried to make peace - says it all w/ proof of it from his trolling "signature boy" mouth http://slashdot.org/comments.p... & here too http://slashdot.org/comments.p... + here http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

* :)

(I've discovered that trying to make peace with a mental retard due to assbergers & OUTISM is a difficult thing & largely apparently unachievable...)

APK

P.S.=> You brought it on yourself Coren22, nobody else - you sow the wind? Here comes the whirlwind, & all your sockpuppets, signatures, & fellow trolls can't stop it (lol, you're 'outta bullets' in downmods) - so "the beatings will continue" until you stop your immature childish signature bs... apk

Coren22 likes being crushed (crushed himself)

[Anonymous Coward]

See subject: Says it all & this link, dismantling him point-by-"so-called 'point'" of his publicly http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

* :)

(Coren22, I tried to give you a chance, 3x no less - you're a fool: You mistake mercy for weakness, like cretin brutes in the streets do... you paid the price!)

APK

P.S.=> I notice you stopped responding there - "Gosh, golly gee - why's that?" (not) - but I expect you'll TRY some more b.s. as that's all "your kind" (trolls) understand - crap like downmodding my posts or ac troll me!

(Which you & your sockpuppets OR fellow trolls have here already NOW TELLING OTHERS TO TROLL ME BY UNIDENTIFIABLE AC POSTS http://slashdot.org/comments.p... as I've torn you ALL up 1 by 1 every time as I have yourself above... you did this, to yourself "signature boy")... apk

Buy equipment

[MoarSauce123]

A big help would be allowing subscribers to buy their own equipment rather than rent it. A set top box is about 40$, a remote for it runs 15$.