Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Classified Report On the CIA's Secret Prisons Is Caught In Limbo (techdirt.com)

Posted by samzenpus on from the not-for-your-eyes dept.

sandbagger writes: A 6,700-page report that cost $40 million to produce is being blocked from circulation by the US Department of Justice by relabeling it as a Congressional Record, even though it isn't. Why? Congressional records aren't necessarily subject to Freedom of Information Act requests. Techdirt reports: "There had been some hope that ex-Senator Mark Udall might choose to release some of it from the Senate floor before leaving office, but that didn't happen. And, with the changing of the guard, the new head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Burr, demanded that all the federal government agencies that received the report should return it to him so he can destroy it and make sure that no one ever sees what's in the report. As we noted, however, this whole thing seemed to be an effort to state publicly that the document was a Congressional record. That matters because Congressional records are not subject to FOIA requests. Executive branch records are subject to FOIA requests -- and the ACLU has made a FOIA request to the exec branch for a copy of the report."

54 comments

  1. We need a whistleblower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    And, with the changing of the guard, the new head of the Senate Intelligence Committee, Richard Burr, demanded that all the federal government agencies that received the report should return it to him so he can destroy it and make sure that no one ever sees what's in the report.

    Good luck with that, asshole. I hope to see it released in full by a whistleblower. The American public needs and deserves to know what god-awful and unconstitutional deeds are being done in their name.

    1. Re:We need a whistleblower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, this might not be a bad idea. How many copies are there? Give him a pair of Nail Clippers, and of course TV Coverage, and this sole act of personally destroying all copies, page by redacted page, might keep him out of the Senate for the rest of the decade.
      Dumbfuck republicans _can_ have a good idea now and then.

    2. Re:We need a whistleblower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      America treats its whistleblowers far too badly to "deserve" such knowledge. We throw them to the wolves, so they have no incentive to stand up for us.

    3. Re:We need a whistleblower by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      Didn't the people who wrote the report read it? Or at least proof-read the parts that they wrote?

    4. Re: We need a whistleblower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, they hired writers that can write but not read. (c.f. Pogo)

    5. Re:We need a whistleblower by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Whistleblowing https://cryptome.org/2013-info...
      A few from within the CIA did speak out on illegal torture. They faced prison for telling the truth about illegal torture, not the full protection of US whistleblowing laws.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    6. Re:We need a whistleblower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Don't worry. We will soon see cold fjord or some other sock-puppet of the same ilk posting something to the effect of that being completely as it should be. With a straight face, even. As usual.

    7. Re:We need a whistleblower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need a whistleblower ...

      ... He's gotta be strong
        And he's gotta be fast
        And he's gotta be fresh from the fight

    8. Re: We need a whistleblower by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course it is as it should be, and I say this as a European. People cannot and would not handle the whole truth. It's a complicated world and the populace does not need to worry about things they cannot do anything about. People need unity and purpose. They need to be led. Just like we're doing in Europe.

    9. Re:We need a whistleblower by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      I doubt that much of what is in the report is still going on. What it really detailed is what W's admin did in those prisons which is why the neo-cons will make sure that this never gets out. Had these actions still been going on, I have little doubt that the neo-cons and/or tea* within the GOP would be very happy to give it up to the press, regardless of national security.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    10. Re:We need a whistleblower by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Yeah, America is horrible with whistleblowers.
      we scream about them and indicate that we will prosecute them. In other nation's, they send assassins to execute them.

      Had ppl like Snowden and Manning been smart, and caring about America, they would have been whistle blowers by releasing ONLY information about illegal doings and not everything of which most of it, was legal, but classified doings.
      It is for that very reason why previous American whistleblowers did not go to jail.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  2. Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina by Raseri · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you're one of his constituents you should probably contact him and tell him to stop fucking up: http://www.burr.senate.gov/ Unfortunately, NC is not one of the 18 states that allow recall of a senator, so you'll have to threaten him with losing his job next election cycle.

    --
    Writhe your naked ass to the mindless groove.
    1. Re:Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 2

      How can a state allow recall of a senator when term limits on senators were ruled unconstitutional?

      --
      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:Senator Richard Burr of North Carolina by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I didn't vote for him.

      Last time I sent him a letter asking how he voted in his hidden vote(please see previous slashdot articles that include him) on other bills. His office waited for the last day before it became public(6months later) to send a reply that basically said F-off to me, btw, fox news was running some crazy mis-direction that day, they did the hidden vote.
       
            I didn't vote for him, and I won't vote for him when he comes up again. Sadly the Nascar fans here believe the evil democrats are going to take their cars, guns, and liquor away so I'm sure he will get reelected. His current campaign for some reason sent me a newsletter yesterday asking for me to vote for him, perhaps he didn't understand the last 2 letters wording I sent him.

  3. Fire Them All by macs4all · · Score: 1

    That is all.

    1. Re:Fire Them All by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      What is to make the replacements to be better?

      The more senior Senators and Representatives have been beaten down over the years so they are more willing to compromise and work across the party lines. Knowing that by doing so they will get part of their agenda out vs none of it.

      The new guys are out to try to change everything to their way, if they show any type of compromise that is a form of weakness against the enemy which is the opposing party. The American System does have Checks and balances and rules to help favor the slight minority.
      So you assume everyone gets kicked out, and we have a grand elections... That somehow your particular party will win the major majority and the world will be a good and happy place...

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Fire Them All by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The replacements aren't better: they're all crooks. However, we can limit the amount of time that the crooks gets to spend in office, then they can only betray the American people for a single term of office.

    3. Re:Fire Them All by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is to make the replacements to be better?

      Youth. Vote for the youngest candidate.

      Or in Sen. Sanders case, the one with the youngest soul.

  4. Complete bullshit by UnknownSoldier · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Any government that has/demands authority needs to recognize that citizens demand accountability as that is the only way to prevent abuse of said power.

    This is almost as bad as secret laws that you can't discuss -- which I can't seem to find a link for ATM but read a few years back here on /.

    1. Re:Complete bullshit by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      Could be worse, we could live in a country where they never would have put the report together in the first place. At least a few senators know what's going on here - it's even worse when the leadership is in the dark and has nothing but fiction to base their decisions on.

    2. Re:Complete bullshit by gstoddart · · Score: 1

      Any government that has/demands authority needs to recognize that citizens demand accountability as that is the only way to prevent abuse of said power.

      I'd say that isn't historically true, and definitely isn't true of a lot of governments today.

      Even the supposed "free" Western "democracies" have decided they don't give a crap what citizens say about certain things. They want to operate in the dark shadows and not have any scrutiny.

      Just imagine what the rest of the governments in the world do.

      Abusing their power and claiming it's for our own good seems to have replaced any form of accountability. And the spy agencies are increasingly refusing to be accountable to the people who are supposed to oversee them.

      Basically they want to claim the laws don't apply, they can do anything they wish, and there's nothing we can do about it.

      Accountability is now a quaint notion, but increasingly it's not reality. The illusion of accountability, or the claim that they can't protect us and be accountable to us.

      --
      Lost at C:>. Found at C.
  5. ain't necessarily so... by turkeydance · · Score: 1

    well, the post put it this way: "Congressional records aren't necessarily" and "Congressional records are not". ain't so sure 'bout that.

  6. The [Redacted] Address, by [Redacted] [Redacted] by Pseudonymous+Powers · · Score: 3, Funny

    "We here highly resolve that these [redacted] shall not have [redacted] in [redacted]—that this nation, under [redacted], shall have a new [redacted] of [redacted]—and that government [redacted], [redacted], [redacted], shall not perish from the earth."

  7. Corruption by amiga3D · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The main reason for all the secrecy is to hide corruption. They love the new laws that piss all over the Constitution. Can you imagine? Secret laws, secret warrants, secret courts and secret prisons. How is any of that part of a free society? George Washington would fucking shoot their asses.

    1. Re:Corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The main reason for all the secrecy is to hide corruption. They love the new laws that piss all over the Constitution. Can you imagine? Secret laws, secret warrants, secret courts and secret prisons. How is any of that part of a free society? George Washington would fucking shoot their asses.

      Thank you. This needed to be said because it's the fucking truth.

      $40 million for a report that they likely knew would be content never to be released? Yeah, fat fucking chance that didn't line everyone's pockets first. I'm shocked it didn't cost $40 billion.

    2. Re:Corruption by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Insightful

      $40M isn't bad for good information. Assuming the cost spread equally among households, this cost the average household something like $0.50. The average household's federal tax burden is somewhere in the $20,000 range (average, not median), I'd be very happy if $5000 of that $20,000 was spent on getting the right information to the right people to make the right decisions about how to spend the other $15,000 - and a report on CIA secret prisons seems like justifiably 1% of 1% of the information that should be gathered and shared appropriately.

      The other important use of information (beyond spending allocation) is for policy making and maintaining our diplomatic position and posturing with the rest of the world, reports about secret prisons seem both to be important to that diplomatic position, and also important to control release of on the world stage.

      Better that we would have no secrets at all, but if you do that all at once, noone will be happy with the result.

    3. Re:Corruption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The main reason for all the secrecy is that the CIA is a clandestine foreign intelligence agency. They will freely admit that their job is to gather foreign intelligence deemed necessary to protect the interests of the country. If you want to unmask CIA operations please make sure you do the same thing to the FSB, BND, MSS, MI6, DGSE, MOIS, and Mossad just to name a few. The CIA is specifically banned from operating in the US and any evidence that proves they have ran domestic operations should be brought forward. Anything they do outside of the US is just doing their job and the rest of the world is not covered by the US Constitution or US Bill of Rights. There is only one rule they have to obey in foreign operations and that is to not get caught. That's why you will find half the staffers in all the US embassy's are intelligence agents so when caught they can claim diplomatic immunity and leave the country. That is SOP for every foreign intelligence service on the planet. Any secret prisons and suspected black sites in foreign countries do not fall under US jurisdiction. They fall under the jurisdiction of the host countries and it is up to them to prosecute any wrong doing. Every country in which the US is conducting drone operations are there with the host countries approval. The only exception would ne Syria and they really aren't making a big deal out of it. Every time you hear a Pakistani, Afghani, or Yemini government official complaining about drone strikes in their territory it is only for local consumption. Every country on the planet that has asked for the US to remove any military bases the US has did so. Should these secret prisons or black sites be permitted to exist? In a perfect world the answer would be no but we do not live in a perfect world. I see atrocity after atrocity being committed all over the world and some people do nothing but blame the US and let the actual perpetrators shift to the background. If the only answer to every problem in the world is to blame the US I am fine with that. But once that is settled what, who, or how is going to done to actually fix the problems? Nobody really ever comes up with a good answer to this question. I want the US to stop all foreign based military operations and cancel all mutual defense agreements and obligations and then see what happens. The US is surrounded by a real big moat with Canada and Mexico at the north and south borders. Neither Canada or Mexico is a military threat to the US. Europe and Asia is a whole different story. That's where the madness and destruction will take hold first The entire region will make the current middle eastern region look like paradise. The US would suffer some initial economic problems but the US is self sufficient for everything needed. Food, energy, and pushing to re-open or enlarging domestic manufacturing would create a lot of jobs. The US could survive a world meltdown and when the rest of the world is destroyed the US would be back in the position of strength will a population that doesn't give two shits about any foreign problems.
      The FISA courts are an imperfect attempt to solve a basically unsolvable problem. The FISA warrants (initiated in 1978) lower the bar to obtaining a normal search warrant. However, any evidence obtained under a FISA warrant can only be used in a normal warrant petition in a non-FISA court. None of the information collected under a FISA warrant can be used against a defendant in any court proceedings. In the end it is the public's demand for protection from evil doers that makes creating these types of situations even possible.

    4. Re:Corruption by WindBourne · · Score: 2

      Yeah, Washington really wanted everything out in the open and hated the use of spies.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  8. Aren't congressional records published? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Or are we talking about a different congressional record?

    1. Re:Aren't congressional records published? by tnk1 · · Score: 2

      Both houses of Congress and much more often their committees can move into closed sessions which do not have their minutes published publicly.

      http://www.rules.senate.gov/pu...

      2)(A) Except with respect to meetings closed in accordance with this rule, each committee and subcommittee shall make publicly available through the internet a video recording, audio recording, or transcript of any meeting not later than 21 business days after the meeting occurs.

      If you look at the Congressional Record, you see where it says they they went into Closed Session at such time, and no information about what happened in that session.

  9. Perfect Place For It by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I mean limbo and all

  10. Re:The [Redacted] Address, by [Redacted] [Redacted by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    you forgot to redact "earth". Wouldn't want to give the enemy any information which helps them narrow down the search.

  11. Heroes! by no-body · · Score: 1

    They are doing something FOR their country and as a consequence they have to hide it FROM their country.

    Oh, sorry - one would need to define what a country is.
    Hard to define these days, I'll skip that, isn't there doctores without borders, now this could be perverts without borders here.

    My guess is that it's a conspiracy between "friends" to cover up heinous crimes against individuals done by perverts and signed off by "friends" looking into how the acts can be justified and found legal support for it.
    But - this seems to work only if it happens secretly or some people would have their dreams disrupted and object.

    1. Re:Heroes! by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Its not that difficult to understand without any malice at all. Different countries cooperate with the CIA. We seen some of the local populations rise up in protest over this when the secret prisons originally came to light. Since then, some of those countries have had to suffer terrorist attacks due to this cooperation.

      Not releasing this report could be nothing more than attempting to protect that level of cooperation and perhaps those cooperating so other aspect than prison like intelligence gathering, joint opperation against terrorist, and so on that actually does keep American safe isn't lost.

      No malice needs to be involved. No cover up of illegal activity needs to be involved. There are 50 senators, their staff, and various other agencies with themployees in them. If it was illegal activities behind the reasons, you would think a high level leak would have surfaced by now.

  12. Why is this surprising anymore? by CaptnCrud · · Score: 5, Interesting

    We have candidate "debates" that at best are "who can weasel their way out of a debate" contests.

    A commander and chief that only reads things from a teleprompter written by other people.

    Politicians that don't even hold themselves accountable for anything but lining their pockets through lobbyist.

    A now nebulous "war on terror" costing some 1.6-1.7 TRILLION...part of which (iraq) was based on a lie.

    A TSA agency that exists solely for safety theater

    A huge data collection/retention/eves dropping system that blankets everyone

    So no here we are, destroying evidence in public was just the next step.

    1. Re:Why is this surprising anymore? by cdrudge · · Score: 1

      Aside from the "War on Terror", what of any of those things is really new in the past 40+ years?

  13. Huge Bonus Scams by rtb61 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    What they are likely to want to keep secret is corporate contractors stuffing the pockets with reward money by handing over any one and everyone as terrorists. Consider the cash flow, first the reward syphoned off, then the private flight, then private managed prison, then more flights, then more interrogation supervision and then lawyers and more lawyers. Often parts all of the above contracted through single corporation. The big secret how much each victim cost the US government in contractor fees and charges and how by far the majority of it was a scam. The amount of money stolen from the US treasury by the fake war on terror would be simply mind boggling literally hundreds of billions of dollars buried in tax havens by the biggest criminals on the planet, many of whom are still in positions of power because to embarrassing to prosecute or they have too many secrets to prosecute.

    --
    Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    1. Re:Huge Bonus Scams by labnet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      this. +
      The CIA exists to be the private political arm of big business.
      They have been deliberately destabilising the middle east since their inception. Saddam used to be on their payroll. They co-funded and trained the terrorists against Assad causing Europe's refugee crisis.
      I'm surprised that Americans are so apathetic against the abuses of their government.

      --
      46137
    2. Re:Huge Bonus Scams by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't mistake apathy for a feeling of hopelessness. What can we really do, pick the other criminal on the ballot? I want the system to change, but am totally powerless to change it.

  14. Well DiFi, just publish it. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nail the full set of tomes to a church door and slap a Creative Commons copyright on it. There, now anyone can read it. No need to get anyone's undies in a twist about FOIA requests when they can just find it in the library.

  15. 17th amendment by raymorris · · Score: 4, Informative

    The ruling that state laws mandating term limits are unconstitutional is based on the 17th amendment. The 17th says that voters, not state governments, select senators. A state law saying that the person voters aren not allowed to (re)elect whom they choose is contrary to this, the court ruled.

    Allowing voters to (de)elect whomever they choose empowers voters, and is therefore consistent with the 17th amendment.

    Also, the ruling was 5-4, so a slightly different set of facts could easily swing that one vote anyway.

    1. Re:17th amendment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meh. We won't hear about how important term limits are again until the Republicans lose control of Congress. It was always about telling other people who they can and can't vote for.

  16. Totally false... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Every record of anything ever done in congress is a matter of public record. Anything they document is also part of the public record. FOIA requests aren't valid because they aren't necessary. Congress cannot "hide" or "make disappear" anything done by congress-critters. Any attempts to do so would be an act of treason.

    So let's start arresting these critters until one of them "fesses up" and releases the public record documents they've been illegally hiding.

  17. I bet China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is actually free-er than we are.

    1. Re:I bet China by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wait until you got your hall monitors to enforce a curfew, and report your immoral behaviours to the security apparatus. When my uncle visited China he had to took out the planted phone bug several times before the "foreigner bug" was installed to a less obvious location.

  18. Burrs' Campfire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    In the other news, Richard Burr wants to destroy 40 million dollars of the tax payer's money and ensure no one ever sees that money again.

  19. Unbelievable... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    See subject: That's all I've got to say - seriously... what's happening to my country? You can't even SAY WHAT YOU FEEL anymore ("free-speech zones"? I thought the entire NATION was that!)...

    APK

    P.S.=> I love my country - we're a phenomenal sociological experiment that essentially PROVES all nations & peoples of the planet CAN LIVE & WORK TOGETHER, excelling like no other - but this stuff is shaking my faith in it... apk

  20. cold_fjord, where are you? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You just fucking disappear when we need you most! Please, go save America!

  21. Classified != FOIA by zarmanto · · Score: 2

    I could be mistaken, but I'm pretty sure that if a document is indeed "classified", then FOIA requests are pretty much pointless, regardless of which branch of the government happened to produce (or obtain a copy of) the document.

  22. Under pleb law. ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Destruction of evidence may be used to infer guilt instead. So can we apply the same standards here to the CIA and have everyone involved down to the fucking janitors convicted of every crime in the book as guilty, guilty, scumbags?

  23. If only the people would demand change. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the government didn't do bad, immoral, unethical things, the USA would be a better country. But not many, (if any) of the population cares as long as it doesn't directly impact themselves.

  24. the most transparent administration ever. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the DOJ has been a bright spot on the current administration's record, hasn't it?