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Laser Strikes On Aircraft Increasing In Frequency (usatoday.com)

puddingebola writes: The FAA is reporting a record number of laser strikes on aircraft for 2015. From the article: "The Federal Aviation Administration recorded 5,352 laser strikes through Oct. 16, up from 2,837 for all of 2010. ... Some airports have reported more than 100 laser strikes this year: Los Angeles had 197; Phoenix had 183; Houston had 151; Las Vegas had 132, and Dallas-Fort Worth had 115. On July 15, during a 90-minute period, 11 airliners and one military aircraft reported laser strikes near New York City-area airports. Those incidents remain under investigation by the FAA, FBI and New Jersey state police."

161 comments

  1. So what's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

    I mean, if they keep increasing in frequency, eventually someone'll just fire a UV laser and nobody'll be able to see it. The next guy brings an X-Ray laser and it's a self-limiting problem, at least for everyone within a few thousand feet of ground zero.

    1. Re:So what's the problem? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are missing the inevitable problem: pilots being transformed into Incredible Hulks mid-flight by idiots with Gamma ray laser pointers targeting them. Hulk no pilot. Hulk smash.

  2. Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why do people want to point their laser pointers at planes? What does that do for them? Are they getting off to it?

    1. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They point it for the same reason someone posts goatse links on /.

    2. Re: Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I keep my goatse links on anon.petit.fi

    3. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Empty, powerless lives maybe. They suddenly find themselves capable of being a pain in the ass with their gadget, so they act out.

    4. Re:Why? by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Interesting

      At first I think it was just general stupidity and playing around.
      Watching a Laser is interesting, because it isn't something we naturally see, so there is almost a magical quality to it. So shining it at an airplane just to see if it would light up or scatter hitting a propeller seems interesting to try.

      However now... I expect it is because it makes the news, so they get a odd sense of satisfaction that news happen because of their action.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:Why? by tehlinux · · Score: 2

      People post goatse links to blind pilots?! I guess that makes sense.

      --
      Most linux users don't know this, but the man pages were named after Chuck Norris. Chuck Norris fsck'ing hates noobs!
    6. Re:Why? by myth24601 · · Score: 1

      Most are probably just seeing if their laser pointer can hit something that far away.

      --
      No matter where you go, there you are.
    7. Re:Why? by ColdWetDog · · Score: 3, Funny

      Fifteen minutes of fame.

      Six to 10 years in the penitentiary.

      Sounds good to me.

      --
      Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
    8. Re:Why? by Coren22 · · Score: 2

      It could be people testing their mosquito killer aiming system.

      http://science.slashdot.org/st...

      It just has trouble with the optics and keeps targeting aircraft...

      --
      APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
    9. Re:Why? by grnbrg · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I've got a green laser. It's cool to shine it outside at night, because it creates a very visible beam.

      It's also very tempting to shine it at things, to see how far away I can see a reflection. Aircraft a certainly a tempting target, being both moving and fairly far away.

      I haven't and won't, because I understand the potential risk, but I do understand the temptation. And there are a lot of stupid people out there.

    10. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If humans were inherently good, we'd be living in a communist utopia.

      Humans are cunts - rationalising animals who ultimately act on their emotions and decide why after.

    11. Re:Why? by MyFirstNameIsPaul · · Score: 4, Insightful

      One thing I never see published is the details about the flights. Certainly if the pilot is near an airport, especially during landing and takeoff, then obviously the perps are engaging in malicious behavior.

      However, my math says that the major airports reported in the article received 778 of the 5,352 reported incidents in 2015. I live in a residential area that is quite some distance from any airport. A substantial number of aircraft violate the 1000 foot above ground level FAA minimum for residential neighborhoods. I have tried, many times, to call someone, somewhere, who might give a shit about this very annoying violation and there isn't anyone who will do anything (including just returning a phone call), short of my hiring a PI and a lawyer.

      Most disturbing is the helicopters flying what I estimate to be within 200 feet of my house. Although it is a very sturdily built house, the whole thing shakes when the helicopters pass by. Also incredibly annoying is the dip-shit in his WWII fighter plane practicing his tricks, and sometimes just diving and climbing endlessly.

      If I were a lesser person, since I cannot appeal to any authority that will take any action, whatsoever, I might choose to take a more violent approach than just thinking of them as total assholes.

      Only slightly less assholes are the clueless journos who report the stories. Usually it comes from the establishment wannabes at Ars Technica, where critical thinking flies out the window, though this time it's USA Today, and the story is always the same: Report the huge number of incidents, then mention the slim minority that occur right next to an airport. It sure would be nice to see someone actually analyze this data to give people a better understanding of what might be driving this behavior, as I wouldn't be surprised if just asking pilots to follow the law might result in some unsubstantial quantity of these incidents going away. Of course the real problem with this is that it reveal that pilots are also aggressors, so it isn't in that industry's interests to pursue such ends.

      --

      I once took an excursion to Reddit, and later HN. Unlimited up/down voting sucks when dealing with a hive-mind.

    12. Re:Why? by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I know some really stupid people who might just say, "Yeah, worth it." I'm not friends with them but I know them.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    13. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I bet the majority are at or above 1000 feet, and you're one of those cunts with too much free time on their hands who buys a cheap house near an airfield then tries to close it down. Fuck you.

    14. Re:Why? by Calydor · · Score: 1

      I live really far from any airfields, and several times a year I have military cargo planes flying so low overhead the first several times I thought they were gonna crash. That is NOT an amusing experience by any means.

      If a cargo plane is so low you can read the serial number (or whatever that unique letter-and-number code on planes is called) then it is TOO low.

      --
      -=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
    15. Re:Why? by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      People post goatse links to blind pilots?! I guess that makes sense.

      A fW^nudge is as good as a wink to a blind bat, eh? Eh?

      (With apologies to Monty Python)

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
    16. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I would if I didn't understand the risks.
      Some people don't have this basic level of understanding and self-restraint.

    17. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, you're still in the cunt category. We've got tapes in the airplane and we review them. We're nowhere near your house. We're at least 500 AGL; I'd lose my wings if caught fucking around in the taxpayer's airplane.

    18. Re:Why? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      500 AGL is 500 below FAA regulation.

  3. I am wondering... by Arkh89 · · Score: 2

    These stories get more and more attention of the media and every time they will emphasize that this is considered as a federal crime for which penalty is severe fines and possibly jail time. But this does not seem to be at all effective with the population.
    The question is, are people doing this out of a really bad intention or are just not intelligent enough to understand the risks and the sentences they are facing for, literally, no personal gain?

    1. Re:I am wondering... by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 4, Insightful

      >> are people doing this out of a really bad intention or are just not intelligent enough to understand the risks and the sentences they are facing

      Both. These are the same people who like tossing bricks onto cars from the overpass.

    2. Re:I am wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the problem is the news stories emphasizing the occurrences, the severe penalties... and the lack of many (anyone?) receiving them or being prosecuted . So, drunk guys 1,2,& 3 go out, shine a few jets by the airport, go home. Then they watch the 10 o'clock news and see their anonymous story. High five!

      If there's anything nefarious, it's the basic statement that "We are doing this with impunity, I bet you can't wait to see what's next"

    3. Re:I am wondering... by shaitand · · Score: 1

      "are just not intelligent enough to understand the risks and the sentences they are facing"

      On the contrary, they are intelligent enough to understand that regardless of what the penalty or sentence they face pretty much no risk. It isn't as if the guy in the jet knows the address of the tiny spec below that fired a laser up at him.

      If anything this is probably the jet equivalent of road rage, people who are sick and tired of the damn aircraft noise polluting their environment.

    4. Re:I am wondering... by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      The news will need to also show every time these people get caught. Perhaps have random zones where they are patrolling for laser users.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    5. Re:I am wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just don't care about you and your airgenda.

    6. Re:I am wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Like GP said, not intelligent enough to understand the risk of killing a hundred people on an airplane. Sadly, these are the same sort of asshats that have driven the FAA rules on drones.

    7. Re:I am wondering... by Deadstick · · Score: 2, Insightful

      These are the same people who like tossing bricks onto cars from the overpass.

      Or any other type of vandal: they're losers who have no other way to get the thrill of imposing their will. It's their only shot at being alpha males.

    8. Re:I am wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then they shouldn't have moved next to an airport.

    9. Re:I am wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      >> are people doing this out of a really bad intention or are just not intelligent enough to understand the risks and the sentences they are facing

      Both. These are the same people who like tossing bricks onto cars from the overpass.

      When I was a kid outside at night, we used to shine flashlights at aircraft just to see if:
      - We could see them better (we couldn't)
      - They would notice us down on the ground (they didn't)

      I'm pretty sure that most kids using the laser pointers are thinking along the same lines. They certainly aren't expecting to hit anybody in the eye and blind them, and in all reality that doesn't happen anyhow. What happens is the laser might hit the windscreen and refract, causing the cockpit to light up, which I'm sure looks pretty fucking cool to a couple bored kids with nothing better to do.

      But never, at any point in my life, did the thought of tossing bricks off an overpass onto a car cross my mind. We weren't malicious, and I doubt the vast majority of people doing this are either. But the more the media and government make this type of thing sound like a Huge Deal, the more likely it is that the "bad sort of kids" WILL go out and intentionally try to wreck a plane with a $20 piece of hardware.

      As for who the real "loser" is, it's not the kids with a penchant for destroying shit. It's the guy who sits on an online forum calling people 'losers' who will most likely never, ever actually read such comments. But go ahead and have fun with your Superiority Circle-Jerk, I'm sure plenty of others will be happy to join in.

    10. Re:I am wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      what damage does this do to the aircraft or are we talking about pilots being hit with fricken lasers?

      I cannot see how a laser pointer can damage a aircraft of any size but hey it's muirca lock them up for 20 years.

    11. Re:I am wondering... by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Not everyone gets to live wherever they want. Some people must live where they can.

      But if you have a choice... I'm mostly remote but if I do go in to the office I travel an hour and a half rather than live close to the airport.

    12. Re:I am wondering... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Oh shut the fuck up.

    13. Re:I am wondering... by Sperbels · · Score: 1

      Due to extreme difference in altitude you can't shine into the cockpit, the pilots eyes, or disrupt the craft or the flight in any way.

      Where did you get this? If the pilot can see the ground, there's a direct line of sight with some guy with a laser.

    14. Re:I am wondering... by shaitand · · Score: 1

      Yes, technically anything other than looking straight ahead at a perfect 90 degree angle. Of course, I highly doubt the beam is still anywhere near coherent at the range required to hit the plane head on with the near (but not quite) 90 degree angle at 10,000-30,000 ft and therefore no more dangerous than any other bright light on the horizon and blurred and blended with them even if it were the star wars defense system couldn't successfully track and hit targets with a narrow laser beam at that range so I doubt a guy holding one in his hand in the back yard is going to pull it off either and while air patterns are full and all that the sky is still actually almost entirely empty at all points in time the chance of randomly hitting anywhere near a plane by accident is essentially zero let alone the cockpit at that range.

  4. Nuke the area around the airport from orbit by xxxJonBoyxxx · · Score: 1

    It's the only way to be sure.

  5. "Laser Strikes" define? by Matheus · · Score: 3, Insightful

    So do they count a laser the happens to be shined 'near' a plane or are these all directly aimed at/in the cockpit? They specifically not that none of the over 5k "strikes" caused any injury so if any actually penetrated the cockpit they didn't hit any eyes. I'm picturing pilots reporting a laser that they happen to see nearby. I have an extremely powerful laser that finds itself pointing at the sky all the time. I'd never shine one at a plane anyway but most of the time I have comfort in the fact my laser shining straight upward couldn't hit a pilot's eyes anyway unless they happened to be banking at the wrong time. Only time I'd even have a good angle is on take-off or landing. SO long rambling run-on question later: What do they define as a "Laser Strike" how intentional / directed does it have to be or are the standards for a "strike" fairly low?

  6. Doubtful by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lasers are pretty light, but who can throw that far?

  7. So is this just people with green laser pointers? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So is this just people with green laser pointers? If so, I want one so I can try to knock a few out of the sky. Any word on what they do to birds?

  8. Terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I am surprised terrorists haven't tried using this to make planes crash by trying to blind the pilots.
    Hell, maybe they are.

    A single laser is pretty weak at long distance that wouldn't get you spotted, but multiple could easily be combined together.
    All it would take is someone combining a bunch of lasers together with duct tape, buttons pressed down, wired to battery and switch, point & blind at several miles.
    That'd be a very dangerous thing indeed.
    Make it those green lasers and you could cause some serious fucking damage to aviation landing since it is still pretty human-based.

    Of course, luckily there is a very cheap solution, filter sheets over the windows or pilots eyes. (preferably a helmet just to be sure their faces don't get burned by green lasers since they are much cheaper now)
    It really should be done because it is only a matter of time before one of these causes a serious accident.
    Common laser filters are cheap as hell, making them a requirement or fashionable thing for frequent flying operators would solve it.
    However, we are speaking about the aviation industry, one that literally had some companies having just barely enough fuel to get to destinations, some basically "running on fumes" in extreme cases over the past 10 years. I don't think they could give a damn about safety of staff.

    1. Re:Terrorists by Ichijo · · Score: 1

      Common laser filters are cheap as hell

      Not really. Still, they are probably well worth the price.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
    2. Re:Terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I know, I'm rich ... I paid as much for my airplane as a new Civic. Clearly fucking rich. And no, it's not just a private pilot problem, it's mostly helicopter and commercial. I'm only flying at 80 MPH near the ground. The heavies are going closer to 150 MPH. But keep on believing that it's the rich assholes who should be punished, just like George Soros and Occupy told you.

    3. Re:Terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, buying 1" filters as single units from Thorlabs will be expensive. Buy smaller diameter filters in quantity directly from the factory, and it gets a lot cheaper. Yes, the quality control isn't quite as good, but feel the price.

    4. Re:Terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      but multiple could easily be combined together.

      hey don't give the retards any ideas, we already have a great selection of dumbfucks on this rock

    5. Re:Terrorists by kamapuaa · · Score: 1

      Wow, they're probably rich? They deserve it then!

      I drop rocks on cars from freeway overpasses, and I key cars in parking lots. But I only target Teslas and BMWs, so I'm OK.

      --
      Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
    6. Re:Terrorists by shaitand · · Score: 0

      You either got an incredible deal or spent a lot of money fixing it up if you paid as much for your plane as a new civic. Unless you have a severely skewed concept of what a civic costs. The cost of getting your sport pilot license alone is comparable to a new civic.

      If you don't think being able to lay down even an extra $50 grand (bare bare minimum) and then the incredible upkeep cost, which is lets be honest absolute bare minimum with typical being more like half a million, to have a toy to soar around in every once in a while with no practical purpose whatsoever puts you in a different economic class than most Americans you are deluded. Especially considering you can't really finance it.

      But hey, I don't know you. Maybe you took out a second mortgage, maybe it's been your dream and you diverted money that would have more wisely put toward retirement. Maybe you are retirement age, you've been a working slave your entire life and now society finally lets you relax now that you are too old to really enjoy it and this is one of the few things left to you.

      No idea, but private, helicopter, or commercial there is no SAFETY issue here and you know it. You can't really shine it in the cockpit due to the angle and it is only really visible at night when you are flying based on instrumentation anyway. Hell, commercial pilots aren't really flying the planes at all day or night except during takeoff and landing. All this does is ANNOY the pilots and they can get over it. Avoiding annoying pilots definitely falls well below the value of letting people enjoy the only free thing we have left, enjoying the stars with our children and explaining the wonders of the cosmos to them.

      P.S. Obviously I've looked into getting a license which is how I know what it costs. You don't have to be rich but have to be in a lot better position than most to do it even on a budget. Also, I own neither a laser pointer nor a child. I'm just picking sides on this one.

    7. Re:Terrorists by shaitand · · Score: 1


      There is no safety issue at play. Private or commercial, nobody should be regulating away everyone elses enjoyment of the stars to maximize their enjoyment being part of a tiny minority who gets to look down on the world. These things aren't even really visible except at night and they are flying with instrumentation then. Commercial pilots aren't even actually flying the plane except during takeoff and landing, frequently they are napping in that cockpit.

      As for the rich thing.

      They are rich and therefore people who are trying to use a federal agency to prevent the people who worked for the wealth they are enjoying from enjoying what is left and free, the stars. I have no sympathy. It is not punishing the rich to support putting them on the same level as everyone who is not rich. It is not punishing the rich to reach the immediate conclusion that any benefit they get to enjoy should be denied immediately if it infringes on everyone who is not rich. There are million times more people in the 99.999% by wealth than the top 0.001% by wealth and since there are million times more of them their interests are a million times more important which makes the least of the common mans interest more valuable than the most important of the top 0.001% percents interests should they conflict.

      For example there is a million times more merit to proposing free national mayo clinic level healthcare for everyone but the top 0.001% funded entirely by a tax on the 0.001% than in recognizing their right to property. Especially when the reality is that they no more have a right to property than we have a right to good health the only actual right is the right to take what you can and protect what you can and there are a lot more us ants than there are you grasshoppers.

    8. Re:Terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not only is that over-priced for notch filters, as you can get custom batches made for cheaper than that, that is more than you should pay for a good set of laser goggles which don't need as narrow of a bandstop. Color reproduction and total light transmitted is more important than just blocking a narrow line for goggles. It is often a lot cheaper and safer to use volume absorbing materials for laser goggles, as those dielectric coated filters will let a lot of light through with a tiny scratch. And laser goggles are overkill for what pilots need.

    9. Re:Terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you don't think being able to lay down even an extra $50 grand (bare bare minimum) and then the incredible upkeep cost, which is lets be honest absolute bare minimum with typical being more like half a million,

      WTF? Just because some people can spend half a million on it does not mean that most do. People can spend half a million on a boat, but that doesn't mean boating is restricted to the rich. Most pilots I know spent the same amount as a new, slight above average car, but less than $50k. The loans you get for a plane tend to also be much longer term than a car, so you end up paying a couple hundred a month for it. Pretty much anyone who could afford a new car can get a plane if they don't have the need for a new or second car.

    10. Re:Terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They are rich and therefore people who are trying to use a federal agency to prevent the people who worked for the wealth they are enjoying from enjoying what is left and free, the stars.

      Some of the people using the lasers are also ruining enjoyment of the stars and the night sky too. I've lost count of the number of long exposure photos I've had ruined because someone started waving around a laser around to point out a constellation to someone else.

    11. Re:Terrorists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All it would take is someone combining a bunch of lasers together with duct tape, buttons pressed down, wired to battery and switch, point & blind at several miles.
      That'd be a very dangerous thing indeed.

      That would actually be an almost impossible thing. Taping a bunch of lasers together so that the beams stay together over that distance? For them to be within a meter of each other after 2 km, the angle would have to be around .03 degrees. Good luck.

  9. ban this sick filth. by nimbius · · Score: 2

    As an engineer ive been against seeing this kind of increase in frequency since DAY ONE. from 450 to 520 nanometer was appalling enough but 600 nanometer?! seriously? you kids messing around with those diodes are playing with fire.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
    1. Re:ban this sick filth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice rant, but you have the progression backward. You're listing the increase in wavelengths, not frequencies.

      On a mildly related note, it is the higher frequency lasers that are more visible across their beams, so that increase in frequency might lead to an increase in frequency of airline crew noticing lasers pointed at or near aircraft.

    2. Re:ban this sick filth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Longer wavelengths mean lower frequency, but the article mentions an increase in frequency. It's blindingly obvious, considering that red lasers were the first on the market, but now you can get higher frequencies too: green, blue and even violet.

    3. Re:ban this sick filth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a statistician, I've been against seeing this kind of increase in frequency of engineers misunderstanding which definition of frequency is being used since DAY ONE.

    4. Re:ban this sick filth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also the frequency they are talking about is how often planes are being targeted, not the frequency of light.

    5. Re:ban this sick filth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you a pilot? Because everybody else could see that he was making light fun of a dark situation.

    6. Re:ban this sick filth. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you certain they didn't mean "the frequency of reports" not "the frequency of the light waves"?

  10. more stats please . . . by swell · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Where are the statistics about the blinded pilots and crashed planes? Without these facts there is no way to tell if there is a problem.

    --
    ...omphaloskepsis often...
    1. Re:more stats please . . . by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      1 is too many.
      There is still a general mistrust about air flight. All the statistics show it is the safest way to travel, but flying isn't a natural means of transportation for us, so we are naturally a little bit scared of it. Even seasoned pilots realize the bit of fear when they fly. Having anything go wrong does increase stress in the pilot. Their skills usually means nothing happens, but if just 1 plane goes down, it will scare people from flying.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:more stats please . . . by amRadioHed · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Anything that distracts the pilots during landing is a problem, it doesn't matter if it's resulted in any crashes yet or not.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    3. Re:more stats please . . . by slazzy · · Score: 1

      You don't have to be blinded by a laser to receive eye damage. How much laser eye damage would you like to receive before you're allowed to complain?

      --
      Website Just Down For Me? Find out
    4. Re:more stats please . . . by bws111 · · Score: 1

      Stupid position to take. How many air crashes do you think are due to a single cause? The answer is very few, most of them are caused by a series of small events that, individually, would not cause a problem. Unnecessary conversation in the cockpit does not cause a crash. Unnecessary conversation that causes you to miss some other minor, easily correctable, event - crash. Laser by itself, unlikely to cause a crash. Laser temporarily blinding or distracting the pilot from something else - crash.

      So it comes down to simple risk/benefit ratios. On the one hand, there is a non-zero risk, and the results of that risk are potentially catastrophic. On the other hand, there is zero actual benefit to shining a laser at an aircraft, so the calculation is pretty damn easy.

    5. Re:more stats please . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brought to you by the same folks who brought you airport security theater. I don't really believe it.

    6. Re:more stats please . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just how exactly do you expect the NTSB to identify that a laser dazzling the pilot is causal for a crash; it doesn't leave any evidence (unlike high power IR lasers that the Russians stopped using to blind pilots). It looks no different than what we call "Controlled Flight Into Terrain" which is always attributed to pilot error.

      On the other hand, there is plenty of data on pilots having to abandon approaches due to asshats dazzling them, with associated expense, noise and increased CO2 emissions.

    7. Re:more stats please . . . by Solandri · · Score: 1

      There's been at least one pilot injured, perhaps permanently by a laser.

      My suggestion is to develop a highly precise retroreflector material, like used in road sign paint or bicycle reflectors (they appear bright because they reflect your headlights back at you) but much more precise. Then paint all aircraft with this material. Then the idiots shining lasers at planes will end up blinding themselves.

    8. Re:more stats please . . . by swell · · Score: 1

      For those who haven't seen a modern passenger plane or most any other plane, you should know that it is not easy for the pilot to see the ground (where lasers might come from). Some reports say that 'the cabin was lit up' from a laser (because it hit the ceiling of the cabin), but it is very difficult to strike a pilot's eyes from a ground based laser unless the plane is banking sharply in your favor and the pilot is not looking at her instruments.

      Additionally, the vast majority of lasers available to the public sell for much less than $10 and are similar to the lasers in your DVD player. My right eye has been blasted with far more powerful lasers in order to repair the retina. Without those lasers it would be blind.

      That leaves the dreaded 'terrorists' that are everywhere these days. No doubt they have super-duper nuclear lasers to destroy planes and pilots. Will legislation prevent that happening?

      --
      ...omphaloskepsis often...
    9. Re: more stats please . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If the laser pointing activity is as intense and dangerous as stated, there would have been at least one fatal incident by now. There hasn't, so it isn't.

    10. Re: more stats please . . . by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. I'm pretty sure that pilot had a preexisting condition that would be exposed at his next medical, and managed to preempt that and have his work insurance pay out.

      It's simply impossible for even a 1W laser to cause damage to an eye bobbing around in a fast moving plane that's hundreds of meters away.

  11. Laser Strikes on Aircraft by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I hope the investigators can shed some light on this situation.

  12. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm sure the "Laser Strike Taskforce" will encourage pilots to file a report every time they witness a laser in their life whether they are flying or not. Gotta get those federal $$dollars$$ somehow.

  13. Register all lasers! by Kryptonut · · Score: 1

    The solution is obvious, require registration of all lasers. It's going to work for "drones," right?

    1. Re:Register all lasers! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Poppycock! Anyone who uses a green laser is obviously a criminal. Haven't you ever seen the GI Joe cartoon?!

  14. Re: So is this just people with green laser pointe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >

    Ask Norm ... I mean Colonel Sanders.

  15. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by shaitand · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I consider a laser strike to be a laser weapon being used to shoot down a plane. If they are calling people pointing at constellations who can't even see the planes at night "laser strikes" they should be prepared to be laughed into we don't care mode by pretty much everyone. It isn't like these are attacks.

  16. Criminal offense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Before anyone defends these criminals, please realize flying at night is not like driving at night. Driving you have to deal with bright lights from oncoming traffic and your own headlamps so night vision is not gained.. Flying you only have the dull glow of the instruments and moon or starlight. A bright lazer in hitting a windshield cockpit is like a camera flash. It blinds both pilot and copilot. This can cause a crash during landing. The front window is not easy to hit with a lazer. Therefore, this cannot be accidental. Also unlike military aircraft that have coatings and protections against this kind of attach civilian aircraft do not.

    1. Re:Criminal offense. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After reading this, am I the only one who wonders why they don't just leave a light on in the cockpit?

    2. Re:Criminal offense. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      Your field of vision of flying is hundreds of miles around you. When it is dark and you have your night vision you can see a lot of what is going on. When you are driving you just need to see a few hundred meters in front of you. And you probably have reflective paint on the road showing you where to drive.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    3. Re:Criminal offense. by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      Is there special illumination of the instruments that still allows for sufficient field of vision at night? I've got some night blindness and when I do drive at night, I have to dial down the dashboard lights to almost nothing.

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Criminal offense. by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Yup, it's usually a dull red or amber. It's also sometimes a very dim blue. I've seen the red and amber on Navel vessels at night. However, when driving, it's going to be hell on you when oncoming traffic fails to dim their headlights if you've acclimated to the interior brightness level.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
  17. Let evolution do the job by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    That's overkill - just mount a few, small laser guided bombs onto random commercial aircraft and evolution will take care of the problem in a generation or two.

  18. Lazers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    lazers are for luddites!

  19. Cheap Chinese Toys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My question is; why does this government that just loves to control everything and everyone still allow these cheap laser pointers to be sold for $5 at gas stations, and Wal-Marts? why not just ban them? Ooops, 5 years too late.

  20. Increasing Frequency? by Dan+East · · Score: 1

    So they've gone from the red end of the spectrum to the ultraviolet??? Egads!

    --
    Better known as 318230.
  21. Sunglasses? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The airline industry already have a style of sunglasses named after them, why not wear those!
    It's not like the pilots need to see anything for the 99.9% of the time commercial aircraft spend on autopilot anyway.

  22. Retrofit cockpit windows...... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know it seems to go against the whole "ban lasers" rhetoric but lasers aren't going anywhere. So the logical solution seems to retrofitting planes to deal with them. I'm not saying there shouldn't continue to be laws to make it unlawful to intentionally point a laser at an airplane. Simply that it is foolish to think you are going to be able to sidestep installing safety measures in the planes by attempting to litigate your problems away.

  23. Hyperbolic Stories About Laser Illumination Increa by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

    Last night NBC nightly news was calling them "laser attacks on aircraft".

    The entire thing is overblown hyperbole. It's a bright light. Deal with it.

    All the stories of be blinded by laser shine, yet not one single person or pilot blinded by it.

    Unless they are closer than 500 feet from the laser (a powerful 50-100mW), serious risk is non-existent.
    http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1068&context=jate

    http://www.slms.org/blind.pdf

  24. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey selfish fuck,
    At the range and airspeed I'm flying, I can't see your laser unless you're deliberately dazzling me. There's enough dispersion that it's not the little pencil line you think you have; it's a meter across or more, and it blinds me and my copilot. I've had asshats like you negligently try to kill me and everybody on my airplane, and I think you should be publicly flogged., It's not negligent homicide; it's deliberate and will kill people.

  25. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by jklovanc · · Score: 1

    I believe a laser strike has to effect the cockpit. A strike does not have to cause injury to be a problem. A pilot's vision can be dazzled/distracted without being injured.

    I have an extremely powerful laser that finds itself pointing at the sky all the time.

    If you are anywhere near an airport I would be careful.

  26. Ground to plane windshield geometry by swb · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I live about 5 miles from a commercial airport and planes fly over all the time.

    I'm curious how someone on the ground is able to aim at the windshield of the cockpit from the ground. It seems like geometry of shining a laser at a plane would be such that if you were reasonably close to a plane, the windshield wouldn't be line of sight to an observer on the ground.

    Maybe if you were fairly close, at a higher elevation and the plane was taking off pretty much in your direction.

    I can see how helicopters or other aircraft with more of a completely transparent nose would be vulnerable to ground observers shining lasers, but jetliners look to me like they have the cockpit windshield on the top half of the nose hemisphere.

    What am I missing here?

    1. Re:Ground to plane windshield geometry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      planes bank when they are turning

    2. Re:Ground to plane windshield geometry by mpoulton · · Score: 1

      I'm curious how someone on the ground is able to aim at the windshield of the cockpit from the ground.

      What am I missing here?

      You're not missing anything. It's very hard most of the time to hit the windshield of an aircraft from any nearby point on the ground. The hardest part, though, is keeping the laser pointed at the target. It's essentially impossible. People have tested this repeatedly - it's on YouTube. The bottom line is that a handheld laser can only ever manage to very briefly flash the cockpit of a flying aircraft, and the beam intensity at such a range is non-dangerous even if the laser is quite powerful. It may be surprising to a pilot and could cause a brief but dangerous distraction, but the hype of blindness (even temporary vision loss) is grossly exaggerated. Basic math and empirical testing shows that pretty conclusively.

      --
      I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
    3. Re:Ground to plane windshield geometry by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      I'm curious how someone on the ground is able to aim at the windshield of the cockpit from the ground.

      It's not just planes. I live near a university medical center and the medical choppers are always flying around at night. I've even seen them land in the baseball field at the park (I don't know why) and there's a lot more exposure in those cockpits. (Are helicopter cabins called cockpits too?)

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    4. Re:Ground to plane windshield geometry by twotacocombo · · Score: 1

      but jetliners look to me like they have the cockpit windshield on the top half of the nose hemisphere.

      Banking turns to reverse direction and line up with the runway come to mind. Last time I flew, the plane made a pretty sharp turn on landing and I could definitely see down into the yards of the houses below. Cockpits have side windows too, and definitely would have allowed line of sight for some asshat down below to shine a laser in there.

    5. Re:Ground to plane windshield geometry by Solandri · · Score: 4, Informative

      I'm curious how someone on the ground is able to aim at the windshield of the cockpit from the ground. It seems like geometry of shining a laser at a plane would be such that if you were reasonably close to a plane, the windshield wouldn't be line of sight to an observer on the ground.

      Simple geometry says if the pilot can see the ground, a laser on the ground can reach his eyes. Anyhow, a disturbing fraction of laser strikes are happening as planes are on final approach for landing. Their proximity, slower speed, and predicable path makes them more tempting targets at that stage of the flight. And it's precisely that stage where there's the slimmest margin for recovery should an incident occur.

      I doubt a laser alone will bring down an airliner (there are two pilots specifically so one can take over if the other is disabled). But if the pilots are busy dealing with another problem, a laser strike may be the critical factor which pushes the situation over the threshold from a safe emergency landing to a crashed airplane. If you've read any airliner accident reports, it's almost always a combination of multiple factors which cause the plane to crash. if any one of those factors hadn't happened, the plane wouldn't have crashed.

    6. Re:Ground to plane windshield geometry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It doesn't matter what people on Youtube say or what wrongly applied math says, aiming at an airplane is much easier than many people argue. Having actually been in a cockpit when someone aimed a laser at the plane, it lit up the windows for a vast majority of 30 seconds. I'm not here to argue about the overhyped danger as the flux is going to be quite low for all but surplus high power lasers. But the people who argue about how hard it is actually to aim and maintain that aim on an airplane seem to be easily proven wrong by whatever people with the lasers are doing.

    7. Re:Ground to plane windshield geometry by Reziac · · Score: 1

      I expect the furor is not over blinding pilots (as the first poster points out, that would be like hitting a keyhole from the wrong direction) but rather, the potential for "painting targets" and fear of terrorists with shoulder-launched missiles.

      --
      ~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
    8. Re:Ground to plane windshield geometry by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, it's about blinding pilots. Not permamently, just dazzling them long enough to kill everyone on the airplane.

  27. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

    What do you count as injury? I've heard stories about lasers aimed at aircraft where they reported the pilot was temporarily dazzled by the light shining into the cockpit. Probably any laser beam visible to the pilot would be considered close enough to report. If your laser really isn't pointed anywhere near any planes I'm sure the pilots aren't seeing anything.

    --
    We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
  28. Re:Hyperbolic Stories About Laser Illumination Inc by fullback · · Score: 2

    So, it has to cause permanent blindness before it passes the Anonymous Idiot test?

    How can anyone be so wrong about "not one single person..." in this age of Google?

    http://www.kob.com/article/sto...
    http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news...
    http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/he...

    The list goes on and on.

  29. Here's what is Looks Like by WheezyJoe · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe this video will help you, some schmuck lighting up a news chopper, caught on film. It doesn't take much, particularly at night. In the video, when the laser hits just right, the entire canopy lights up green. Even through the video camera, the light shows as very, very bright, bright enough to burn the eyelid and cornea leading to blindness (which is not cool when you need to be piloting an aircraft).

    It should be common knowledge by now that this is stupid stupid shit. It's only sheer luck that this idiocy hasn't incapacitated a pilot to the point that the aircraft went down.

    --
    Take it easy, Charlie, I've got an Angle...
    1. Re:Here's what is Looks Like by KGIII · · Score: 1

      Just re-read this thread now that people have posted their views on the subject. They're ignorant, entitled, and have no intent to change any of this.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:Here's what is Looks Like by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even through the video camera, the light shows as very, very bright, bright enough to burn the eyelid [arstechnica.com] and cornea leading to blindness

      High Dynamic Range televisions have clearly gone too far!

  30. In a related story: by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Laser strikes on aircraft are also decreasing in wavelength.

  31. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Stan92057 · · Score: 1

    When they come knocking at your door you can tell us all about it. And how does an obj that has zero intelligence find itself pointing up at the sky all the time? The article say pointing a laser AT planes is a crime btw.

    --
    Jack of all trades,master of none
  32. Hey, you fucktards with the lasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're gonna get them banned and fuck it up for the rest of us. Knock it off.

    And if you know someone who does this, kick them right in the genitals.

    1. Re:Hey, you fucktards with the lasers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I cannot see how someone can aim a laser that they cannot see at distance or or aim very well can hit a pilot in a moving aircraft if they are saying sensors pick up lasers hitting then so what.
      Perhaps what you need is to claim lasers are crashing planes and so the people can have another patriot act to make you even safer.
      you cannot be safe without being striped of your rights...in America..

  33. I would think... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    military aircraft (and some others) have FLIR cameras that could pinpoint the location of the wannabee jedis and go fuck them up.

  34. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    If they are calling people pointing at constellations who can't even see the planes at night "laser strikes" they should be prepared to be laughed into we don't care mode by pretty much everyone.

    This is interesting. What does pointing a laser at a constellation do for you? And how is it that you can see something 400 light years away, but not a plane with blinking lights at 30,000 feet?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  35. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by joe_frisch · · Score: 3, Informative

    I've been lasered when flying my plane. The beam is big at these long distances, so ti isn't a tiny beam going into your eye, it lights up the cockpit and looks like a very bright point of light. Since your eye focuses the light to a point, lasers can be dangerous at fairly low power levels.

    In a plane even if the beam is not damaging it is very distracting, and distraction is a major cause of aircraft accidents. in my case they kept the beam on the plane for many seconds so it was clearly intentional.

    Its pretty common - several pilots I've spoken to have been lasered. This is the second time its happened to me.

  36. Like I Said, Hyperbole by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    From your own sources (TV news stations known for their dramatization):

    1. "In fact, my night vision was probably degraded for 15 minutes."

    2. "[It] actually blinded us for a split second,"

    3. "Yes sir, 5,000 feet. Two green flashes, and it caught the first officer in his eye," the pilot said.

    An FAA preliminary incident report described the pilot's injury as minor but did not provide details.

    The list of over dramatized false claims goes on and on. But the fact... The facts are that even a very powerful laser at any distance greater than 500 feet is not harmful. http://docs.lib.purdue.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1068&context=jate

    The facts also lack any serious or even remotely long term injury. In fact, they lack any injury whatsoever to pilots, passengers or aircraft. But, if whining like a pathetic pussy make you feel better, whine on. But realize that no matter how much or how loud you whine, your fears don't change the facts.

    I'll bet you live in mortal fear of cell phones on airplanes as well.

    1. Re:Like I Said, Hyperbole by bws111 · · Score: 1

      How stupid do you have to be to think that blindness must be permanent to be a problem? Seriously, how fucking stupid must you be to think that a pilot having degraded night vision, in the vicinity of an airport, is not a problem? Do you have ANY functioning brain cells?

  37. Re: "Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Please leave your geek badge at the door if you can't figure that out.

  38. Always had a problem with laser pointers by tie_guy_matt · · Score: 2, Informative

    Most laser pointers are class IIIb laser devices. The class III means not at all eye safe (though it isn't a burn hazard and you don't have to worry about specular reflection from a target other than a mirror.) The b part means that the manufacturers spread some money around to come up with a class of lasers called, "sure it isn't eye safe but really no one is going to shine it directly in their eyes, will they?" But now they are so cheap that people can buy them as if they were toys. What do you think the chances are that some parent will buy a laser pointer for a child (or maybe someone will just carelessly leave it out) -- then the child (thinking it is a toy anyway) will shine it in his eyes just to see what happens. Heck I would be really surprised if this hasn't happened already.

    On a side note I would imagine that if the plane were at a very high altitude then it would not be as easy as you may think to shine a laser pointer on any part of the plane (let alone into the cockpit window.) Then again if the plane is at a high altitude then a beam from a common laser pointer will likely expand enough to no longer be that dangerous. I guess this is only a when the plane is very close to the ground almost immediately after a take-off or right before a landing.

    If this really continues to be a problem then maybe the government should step in and only allow laser pointers to operate at certain wavelengths. Then Boeing and Airbus can put coatings on their windows to block those wavelengths (turn the cockpit window into a giant set of laser goggles.) Or maybe people can just stop shining laser points at airplanes. Just because something is cheap doesn't mean it is just a toy.

    1. Re:Always had a problem with laser pointers by mpoulton · · Score: 5, Informative

      Most laser pointers are class IIIb laser devices.

      IIIa, not IIIb. The CDRH requires that handheld pointing lasers meet the IIIa classification, which means less than 5mW output power among other things. Red laser pointers virtually all comply with this. Green pointers are hit-or-miss, since the cheap DPSS laser inside has highly variable power output depending on unpredictable factors. In my experience measuring the power output of green pointers (and I've measured a lot of 'em), they are generally 3-5mW but sometimes you get a hot one that pushes 5-10mW. They can all be cranked up with tinkering though, sometimes to 100mW or more! It's the tweaked green pointers and black-market IIIb and IV devices that cause some concern. 5mW in the eyeball is extremely unpleasant, but does not cause retinal damage - especially with the poor beam quality (and thus large focal spot size) of handheld lasers. A tweaked-out DPSS pointer running tens of milliwatts can definitely cause instant permanent damage at short range though, and the 500mW to 1.5W blue diodes are quite dangerous (but totally awesome).

      Here's the thing, though: None of these lasers are really dangerous at long range. The beam quality is universally terrible, which results in high divergence and therefore large beam diameter at long range. The total amount of light produced by even the most powerful handheld lasers is not very much, and quickly loses its brilliance when spread over a circle a few meters in diameter. At one mile, a 2mrad beam will be approximately 10 feet in diameter. A 1W laser would then have an intensity of 0.138W/m^2, or 0.0138mW/cm^2. That's nothing. The sun is over 100 times brighter than that.

      --
      I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
    2. Re:Always had a problem with laser pointers by toddestan · · Score: 1

      That's one of the things no one seems to mention. The media seems to play it up like it's people messing around and pointing at planes with $10 laser pointers from the office supply store but it's pretty obvious that whoever is doing this has some pretty serious equipment. It kind of surprises me that there's that many people out there that have this kind of equipment that also feel the need to point it at aircraft.

  39. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A traditional technique even in astronomy classes. Ever had to explain to someone else where to look in the sky? Much easier to just point a beam that they can follow.

  40. I don't think they'd see it if it didn't hit by dlenmn · · Score: 1

    I don't think pilots would be able to see the laser unless the beams are _really_ close to the plane.

    If the laser beam is passing through empty space, there's no way to see it. The beam has to hit something to be visible. The atmosphere has some stuff in it, even on a clear night, which is why shining laser pointers at the sky is useful for pointing out starts. However, my guess is that the beam will only be visible to people nearly colinear with the beam and won't be like a blaster shot that's visible even if it pases far from you.

    In short if you're shining a beam more than ~20 m from a plane on a clear night, I doubt anyone would even notice it. If you get closer than 20 m, then at best, you're being seriously negligent. If the sky isn't clear, why on earth are you shining a laser into the sky?

  41. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by shaitand · · Score: 1

    Do me a favor and gather up the wattage of the sun vs the wattage of the brightest light on a plane. Next get me the diameter of the sun compared with that of said blinking light.

    Also, there are these things called clouds. If you could get me some data on how many nights a year one of them is large enough to obscure a plan while not being large enough to obstruct vision of the entire sky I'd appreciate that. Once we've got all this information compiled please repeat the question if you still have one.

  42. A Device of Nominal Cost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A device of nominal cost appears to be able to endanger or debilitate multi-million dollar airplanes. Hmmm . . .

  43. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Do me a favor and gather up the wattage of the sun vs the wattage of the brightest light on a plane. Next get me the diameter of the sun compared with that of said blinking light.

    I wasn't trying to challenge you, I just really didn't know.

    On a clear night, how do you see the beam part of the laser? And how do you see the "pointer" end of the laser if the constellation is 400 light years away? Does it bounce off something in the general direction of the constellation?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  44. Re: "Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sneezing also temporarily blinds a pilot, but somehow the planes still fly

  45. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by shaitand · · Score: 1

    "I wasn't trying to challenge you, I just really didn't know."

    In that case I sincerely apologize for the snarky tone but instead hope my snarky response was at least informative. In short, the light on a plane is tiny and low power relative to sheer enormity and light output of a star the difference is vast even from so far away and there are so many they fill the entire sky where the plane is in just one place and easily hidden by cloud cover.

    You can see the pointer because even though the sky might seem clear to us it is still filled with particles of dirt and moisture that highlight the beam. Actually you might even have seen this with high powered lights that aren't lasers when a car dealership has an event or there is a fair/circus or the like. Sometime those lights are powerful enough to see a beam that projects a fair distance up. On some nights you just see it reflect off the clouds but other nights you can actually see a beam project into the air.

    Also often a night seems clear but there is still plenty of wispy cloud cover which will highlight where a beam is pointing.

  46. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    A sufficiently bright laser pointer will be visible as a beam in the sky, because it lights up all the dust particles and water droplets that you normally can't see. The effect is a visible line pointing from the pointer to the target, that nearby observers can then use to see where the pointer is talking about.

  47. You're An Embarrassment by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're an embarrassment to:
    your family.
    your country.
    your gender.
    your species.
    Even your dog is ashamed of you.

    How fucking stupid do you have to be to blindly accept and believe that something is a major problem when, even after more than 30,000 reported incidents, absolutely no harm of any kind whatsoever has been caused.

    Not even a single go around after more 30,000 reported incidents?

  48. ^^^^^ MOD THIS UP ^^^^^ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The total amount of light produced by even the most powerful handheld lasers is not very much, and quickly loses its brilliance when spread over a circle a few meters in diameter. At one mile, a 2mrad beam will be approximately 10 feet in diameter. A 1W laser would then have an intensity of 0.138W/m^2, or 0.0138mW/cm^2. That's nothing. The sun is over 100 times brighter than that.

    Daylight. Regular daylight is more than 100 times brighter than the lasers hitting these aircraft from hundreds or thousands of feet way.

    If the risk was real, the only logical solution would be filtering films on aircraft wind shields. No one is even suggesting this because the risk is ridiculously overblown.

    'Ban lasers, it's our only hope.' Legislate the fictitious problem.

    1. Re:^^^^^ MOD THIS UP ^^^^^ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yah, 100/th the brightness of sun in the middle of the fucking night. That couldn't possibly affect a landing.

      Also stop making shit up about what is proposed, FUDmaster Troll-o-doll.

    2. Re:^^^^^ MOD THIS UP ^^^^^ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't look at sun with remaining good eye. And sunlight isn't coherent light, so the comparison is skewed from the start. I recommend that you try looking into an eye-safe laser beam from a few hundred yards away (so the energy of the beam is spread over a spot two to three feet in diameter). The experience will not be dangerous, but nevertheless quite unpleasant, and this little experiment should cure the misconception that looking into a laser from afar couldn't be a problem.

    3. Re:^^^^^ MOD THIS UP ^^^^^ by mpoulton · · Score: 1

      Don't look at sun with remaining good eye. And sunlight isn't coherent light, so the comparison is skewed from the start. I recommend that you try looking into an eye-safe laser beam from a few hundred yards away (so the energy of the beam is spread over a spot two to three feet in diameter). The experience will not be dangerous, but nevertheless quite unpleasant, and this little experiment should cure the misconception that looking into a laser from afar couldn't be a problem.

      Obviously the lack of temporal coherence in sunlight is irrelevant here. Spatial coherence does have some influence on how bright the source appears. Sunlight is fairly spatially coherent at about 4.7mrad divergence on Earth. That's comparable to a bad laser pointer, and not too much worse than a good one. Coherence is much less important to this issue than M^2 value or other measures of beam "quality" that correlate to focal spot size. The sun wins on those metrics. I've stared into many laser beams of different powers and wavelengths, sometimes intentionally, occasionally accidentally. I've been on the receiving end of high power beams from long distances just to see what it's like. A 150mW 532nm beam of about 1.5mrad (a decent quality DPSS module) is pretty darn bright from 3/4 mile away at night, but it's definitely not dangerous. Try it.

      --
      I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
    4. Re:^^^^^ MOD THIS UP ^^^^^ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't ban lasers, that's as ridiculous as trying to ban guns. There's too many out there, and you can dig one out of a CD/DVD player and overvolt it just as dangerous.

    5. Re:^^^^^ MOD THIS UP ^^^^^ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There have been cases where people's eyes got permanent damage from straight sun light. What usually causes this is some obstruction, like a street light, a tree branch or the moon, blocking most of the sun. The low overall light condition causes the pupil to dilate too far, causing the remaining shards of sunlight to burn elongated or curved lesions in the retina. The cut off bit then peels away, causing irreversible loss of vision over a substantial area, which often increases with age.

    6. Re:^^^^^ MOD THIS UP ^^^^^ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
    7. Re:^^^^^ MOD THIS UP ^^^^^ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obviously the lack of temporal coherence in sunlight is irrelevant here.

      Obviously it's not. Coherent (one color) light allows for constructive interference and is absorbed the same for the full energy contained in the absorbed part of the beam, whereas incoherent light interference evens out. And the different parts of the sunlight spectrum are absorbed differently, so the energy is spread more evenly. At the very least the comparison between sunlight and laser light is off by a factor of 3 for that reason alone, because the laser light "burns out" the light receptors which are most sensitive to that frequency, but sunlight "burns out" the receptors evenly.

  49. Violet now? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    First red, then green then blue so the next higher frequency must be violet.

  50. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If it doesn't get into the cockpit or cabin, how would the flight crew know that somebody was shining one at the plane?

  51. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Also often a night seems clear but there is still plenty of wispy cloud cover which will highlight where a beam is pointing.

    I lived about 10 blocks West of the Sears tower and used to take a cheap laser pointer to the park with me when I walked my dog, because she likes to chase it around (yeah, I heard it wasn't really safe, but the dog is 16 years old and she doesn't seem concerned about the possible dangers).

    I can see the pointer on the side of buildings blocks away, but I can't see any beam. Is that because those cheap laser pointers don't have the power of the fancy emerald ones? If I blow smoke in front of the laser pointer, I can see a beam for a second, but not otherwise unless it's foggy.

    Thanks for the informative response. Now I'm gonna have to go get an expensive laser and point it around. If I get in trouble, I'll tell them you said it was OK.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  52. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Gazzonyx · · Score: 1

    I've been lasered when flying my plane. The beam is big at these long distances, so ti isn't a tiny beam going into your eye, it lights up the cockpit and looks like a very bright point of light. Since your eye focuses the light to a point, lasers can be dangerous at fairly low power levels.

    In a plane even if the beam is not damaging it is very distracting, and distraction is a major cause of aircraft accidents. in my case they kept the beam on the plane for many seconds so it was clearly intentional.

    Its pretty common - several pilots I've spoken to have been lasered. This is the second time its happened to me.

    Sounds like there's money to be made by an enterprising individual that creates a coating that blocks key frequencies or at least scatters them reasonably well without obstructing the wind screen's optics too much. Being that this is dealing with avionics, I'd imagine the testing and licensing would take years though. Do you think pilots would find any value in that at some reasonable (relatively speaking - owning a plane or boat is like hooking your wallet up to a vacuum) price?

    --

    If I mod you up, it doesn't necessarily mean I agree with what you've said, sorry.

  53. Why do we limit sales of lasers in the US? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought the justification for restricting the sales of high-powered lasers in the US was to prevent exactly this behaviour. If this policy is useless, just let me buy lasers.

  54. Clearly the solution... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Clearly the solution is to create a registration program and have it in place before the holiday shopping season when, no doubt, millions will receive lasers as stocking stuffers. That'll definitely stop people from shining them at aircraft.

  55. Re: "Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If the beam is big, average power entering your pupil will be very low. E.g. 1W in a 1m2 beam means 30uW into a 30mm2 pupil. Harmless. Note that average diffuse daylight is hundreds times that.
    If the beam is thin, chances that it can remain aimed straight into a pupil for an extended time are nil.
    Either way, eye damage is next to impossible.

  56. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by flux · · Score: 1

    I imagine it's going to be nigh impossible to make laser shielding without knowing the exact wavelength of the laser in question, and that can of course vary.

    Unless you go the exterior camera + VR helmet route. Which could be cool.

  57. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by toddestan · · Score: 1

    It would be like making the cockpit glass out the same stuff they make laser safety goggles out of. The thing is, you can't easily filter out just one wavelength of light, so the safety goggles for green lasers are orange tinted, and the red laser glasses are all green tinted. I'm guessing most pilots don't want orange or green windows on their plane. And if you wanted to filter both the red and green wavelengths you might as well just paint over the windows.

    Maybe if they actually build those planes where the pilots don't have windows, they can have some mechanism that drops the appropriate filter in front of the camera when the plane gets hit with the laser.

  58. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #1/4... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Apk doesn't think DNS servers are worth running & believes Microsoft Active Directory can run w/out DNS." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday October 27, 2015

    Where'd I say it? I say AD needs internal DNS far back as 2007 http://forums.tweaktown.com/wi...

    See "To warn users who have ActiveDirectory/AD LAN-WAN setups to NOT use external DNS servers" there on OpenDNS free (I use it) + AD in my security guide.

    + Migrate hosts across a LAN (admin/scripts not GPO)-> http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    ---

    I'm RIGHT on admin priv + hosts update (WFP/SFP)!

    "figured out why privilege escalation's a bad thing?" - by Coren22 on Tuesday September 22, 2015

    How else can I programmatically update it?

    ---

    "it requires elevation to write hosts" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday September 23, 2015

    Hypocrite later admits it!

    Even MalwareBytes AntiMalware (best one) DEMANDS it or it can't do its job fully like many security tools!

    Guess what?

    Don't NEED to run my program as ADMIN - I do it here manually vs. auto.

    ---

    "Needing admin privileges every time a program updates is poor design" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

    Users set it, not programmatic impersonation for autoupdate. You design zero & say what's what here?

    ---

    "90's technology to fight modern war" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015

    Ozymandias/Watchmen per a namesake:

    "I resolved to use antiquities teachings" (hosts) "to our world today & began my path to conquest - Conquest not of men but of the evils that beset them: Fossil Fuels (antispyware), Oil (antivir), Nuclear Power (addons) are like a drug & you gentlemen along w/ foreign interests are the pushers"

    It works Aryeh Goretsky NOD32/ESET said hosts = good security-> http://it.slashdot.org/comment...

    Oliver Day (Symantec) too-> http://www.securityfocus.com/c...

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts' Admin hosts+recommends APK Hosts File Engine 9.0++ SR-2 32/64-bit-> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl...

    APK

    P.S.=> Continued in #2/4... apk

  59. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #2/4... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Virus scanners/Adblock software don't need admin priv to update" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    Stupid, neither does my program! AV does to remove threats - Adblock addons = VASTLY INFERIOR in abilities + efficiency vs. hosts as I've proven & nobody proved me wrong to date!

    ---

    "your software does" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    No, hosts do due to WFP/SFP!

    ---

    "won't reveal your source code" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    I don't owe you it. I don't give away work to be stolen by others so it's misused like GOOGLE CHROME http://it.slashdot.org/story/1...

    ---

    "What's stopping you from pointing my bank's web site at your private server?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    I don't keep a server. You're a security guru (not - you create no ware for security & your forensics skills = non-existent): Put it in a VM, trace it using process monitor + wireshark to prove it (don't need code) & I only put in hardcodes of fav sites @ top of hosts for speed & reliabilty - you'd spot it easily & bulk of the file is sorted blocked known bad threat origins.

    ---

    "the possibility of being caught, which would be pretty hard to catch w/ such a large hosts file, as no one can go through it manually." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    See just above!

    ---

    "What are you going to do when Windows gets rid of the hosts file completely?" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    Hasn't happened!

    ---

    "They have already taken steps to make it useless in Windows 10." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    It still works there - who're you bullshitting but yourself you assbergers outism retard?

    APK

    P.S.=> To be continued in part #3/4... apk

  60. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #3/4... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "I guess we should avoid your crap, it looks like it is marked as malware. Good luck getting that removed." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Monday November 02, 2015 @03:52PM (#50850445)

    62 sources of good repute show + /. users say otherwise:

    Proven safe by 57 antivirus programs in its 64-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    +

    Same for the 32-bit model https://www.virustotal.com/en/...

    &

    Per VirScan its installer too -> http://f.virscan.org/APKHostsF...

    ---

    MalwareBytes' hpHosts Admin (MalwareBytes employee) hosts & recommends it -> http://hosts-file.net/?s=Downl... & MalwareBytes = BEST antivirus per this VERY recent testing of them all http://www.av-test.org/en/news... /.'ers say my work is good too:

    "his hosts program is actually pretty good" - by xenotransplant (4179011) on Monday August 10, 2015 @03:34PM (#50287195)

    "I like your host file system." - by Karmashock (2415832) on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @03:57PM (#50489401)

    "APK is kinda right... I've given up on JS based adblocking and gone to blackholing in /etc/hosts, just like it was back in the 90s. The computational load has gotten intolerable for any ad-blocking using JS. I've tried his hosts file generating software. It works." - by bmo (77928) on Thursday October 15, 2015 @11:30AM (#50736071)

    "his hosts tool is actually useful for those cases in which one does indeed want to locally block stuff outright while consuming minimum system resources" by alexgieg (948359) on Friday September 25, 2015 @09:57AM (#50596461)

    ---

    You tried using Computer Associates another antivirus I turned over on false positives (1/8 over time) & they were caught in ACCOUNTING SCANDALS FRAUD http://www.bing.com/search?q=c...

    Reputable source (not): They had to sell off their PC security suite too (crap fraud also) LOWERING the 'threat level' on THAT program (not my hosts file engine) TO ZERO!

    * YOU ARE WRONG ON EVERY ACCOUNT NOTED!

    APK

    P.S.=> To be continued in part #4/4... apk

  61. Coren22's "greatest hits" fails #4/4... apk by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "but rather than take my advise on various things, he feels that he is allowed to defame me by saying things he knows are not true - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015 @10:06AM (#50863109)

    Hypocrite, I show you're projecting in my posts. What "advice" can you, an INFERIOR to me, like yourself give?

    "I have offered him advise on ways to improve what he does to reduce the feeling of icky his software - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015 @10:06AM (#50863109)

    I've shown /.'er saying differently - Show us you've done better: YOU can't - & you're "advising"? Talking out your ass on things you haven't done is what you're doing.

    "posting them so often that maybe, just maybe, someone will think they are true - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015 @10:06AM (#50863109)

    Quotes of you are true! You can't keep your word as you're replying to me yet again + projecting what I prove YOU do (AD/DNS lie).

    "I don't have time for the Troll APK, and refuse to respond anymore to a post signed APK" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 03, 2015 @04:27PM (#50858983)

    No troll. I protect users for free w/ a program that speeds them up, helps reliability, & even anonymity online w/ more abilities & efficiency than ANY other 1 solution doing more w/ less - do you? No.

    "Maybe I should change my signature again just to rile him up some more." - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 03, 2015 @10:07AM (#50855451) FROM http://slashdot.org/comments.p...

    "Rile" me? Childish sig bs is all you've got!

    "I have repeatedly refuted his assertions - by Coren22 (1625475) on Wednesday November 04, 2015 @10:06AM (#50863109)

    BS - See my last 4 posts here!

    APK

    P.S.=>

    "I never admitted you were right" - by Coren22 (1625475) on Tuesday November 10, 2015 @04:14PM (#50904323)

    You PROVE I AM FOR ME part #1-#4 of your "Greatest Hits Fails"... apk

  62. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by joe_frisch · · Score: 1

    Pilots could wear laser goggles (cheaper than doing all the glass) but that only works if you know the laser wavelengths. There are too many different wavelength lasers to block them all

  63. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you pay more money, you can get laser goggles with better color transmission. I've used both cheap red/IR goggles that turn everything green, and I've used nicer ones that have more of a neutral color. But those goggles have typical optical densities of 6 or more for the target wavelength (i.e. they attenuate by a factor of a million or more), which is not needed for the pilots. There are even versions of high power laser goggles called "alignment goggles" that have lower attenuation for when you need to see the beam a little bit for alignment purposes, and even those block way more than pilots would need to.

    You can already find glasses intended for pilots that will block 6 or more common laser wavelengths, and still have neutral color and high light transmission for most of the spectrum.

  64. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You need to get over your arrogant ignorance and talk to pilots who have been hit.

    "Banking at the wrong time" ??!! You need to educate yourself before you hurt someone, cockpit windows provide a much greater opening than you would like to believe.

    Oooh sorry I turned my airplane into your laser Mr. Midnight Twiddlefingers; Getting dazzled, temporarily blinded, with a strong risk of permanent damage, and a career change to fruit-ripeness-tester was a small price to pay for being able to maintain entertainment opportunities for street level slack-jaws.

  65. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I've had asshats like you negligently try to kill me and everybody on my airplane

    How many airplanes have crashed due to lasers being shined at them? Divide that by the total number of flights and you'll see the probability of a plane crashing due to lasers. Of course the numerator will be zero, so the probability is zero. But don't let the truth interfere with your reactionary bullshit. DEATH PENALTY FOR LASERS!

  66. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by GuB-42 · · Score: 1

    The problem is that the coating also blocks part of the visible light. And pilots want to see outside as well as they can. I don't thing it is worth it : as GP said, lasers are "just" distracting, and relatively uncommon.
    Goggles are better IMHO as they can be but and removed as needed, like sunglasses. And because they are not part of the plane, they are certainly less of a hassle regulation-wise.

  67. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Regarding your inability to see the beam, I suspect you are using a red laser. It's not so much the quality here ("...an expensive laser..."), but the color of light. I got a cheap green laser from yugster for $5-$10. Just your typical cheap pen laser. You can see that beam pretty well at dusk, no need for darkness. It's also not too difficult to see where it's hitting during daylight (perhaps not as far as you suggest, however, but sunlight kinda does that).

    Even in darkness, cheap consumer red laser beams are typically only visible short distances. And while not laser, red light in general is also often used for night time activities for the fact that it isn't particularly "bright" and does not impact one's night vision so much.

    So if I am correct and you're using a red laser, and if you happen to enjoy lasers in general, I highly recommend picking up a green laser. The difference in brightness between the two colors is quite a lot.

  68. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

    The color of the laser matters, too. Geeks pointing out constellations are likely using a green laser. A green laser will be more visible both because they are mostly just available as higher-quality devices than the average red laser (which can get as cheap as $2) and because your eyes have more cones to sense green light.

    --
    "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
  69. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by Toad-san · · Score: 1

    What possible rational, justifiable reason could you have to point an extremely powerful laser at the sky all the time? Unless you're using it in conjunction with a very sophisticated observatory, that is, and those all have FAA danger zones.

  70. Re:"Laser Strikes" define? by shaitand · · Score: 1

    " If I get in trouble, I'll tell them you said it was OK."

    I officially endorse that is it green and that I've heard all my life that green is good for the Earth. Also, I read that on the Internet so it must be true.

    Every time you use a green laser a Native American stripper walking down the highway in leathers loses his tears.