ISP To Court: BitTorrent Usage Doesn't Equal Piracy (torrentfreak.com)

An anonymous reader writes: The music industry has long argued that evidence of BitTorrent is evidence of piracy, and ISPs have generally gone along with them. But now, ISP Cox Communications is pushing back against that claim. They have been sued by publishers for failing to halt service for users alleged to have pirated music. Not only has Cox argued that the piracy evidence is invalid, they're also contesting the idea that BitTorrent is only used for piracy (PDF). "Instead of generalizing BitTorrent traffic as copyright infringement, the music companies should offer direct proof that Cox subscribers pirated their work. Any other allegations are inappropriate and misleading according to Cox." The company says, "the Court should preclude Plaintiffs from relying on mere innuendo that BitTorrent inherently allows individuals to infringe Plaintiffs' copyrights."

Comments

Programs using BitTorrent

[Martin Blank]

Aside from file sharing, how many programs use BitTorrent? I'm not challenging the defense here, as I also don't equate BitTorrent with piracy, especially since my main use is personal file synchronization using BitSync and downloading Linux ISOs.

I seem to recall that Blizzard's Battle.net uses it, which I suspect is a non-trivial percentage of traffic. Do any other game management systems make use of it?

Re:Programs using BitTorrent

[JestersGrind]

Facebook and Twitter also use BitTorrent. http://arstechnica.com/busines...

Re:Programs using BitTorrent

[Captain Hook]

I use BTSync to synchronise my own files to my various devices.

Re:Programs using BitTorrent

[phishybongwaters]

Bittorrent is a protocol. Almost anything that uses p2p in the backend is using bittorrent. Game updates, OS updates, linux distros, this can and is being done via the bittorrent protocol. Windows 10 offers peering for updates to your local network and even to the internet, while I didn't dig deep into it, this is p2p at its core, while it may not be using bittorrent (TM) but the technology is essentially the same. Peering. Without bittorrent and similar technology, we can expect the internet to fall apart as soon as all those developing nations login and start streaming HD. IRC is a huge source of piracy, so me logging into a linux support channel makes me a pirate? Just using the torrent protocol makes me a pirate? It's well above and beyond a "defense". If we allow them to paint anyone using that protocol as a criminal, what's next? Email? Newsgroups? IM? As long as there is a system and a method to allow data sharing, data will be shared. As long as there is data, people will want to share it. I personally feel that technology has been ignored to back shelved because of the stigma put on torrents. It comes up during any discussion around traffic. "We all know what bittorrent is for...." No, we know what a lot of people use it for, and we know what it was designed for, and the two are not mutually exclusive.

Re: Programs using BitTorrent

[phishybongwaters]

I really hope the mindless morons follow your advice and get themselves fined and knocked offline because bittorrent in NO WAY provides a method to pirate and not get caught. In fact, out of ALL the methods you have at your disposal to pirate content, bittorrent is the WORST option. simply joining a swarm without even sending or receiving blasts your IP to anyone who bothers to listen. Even with DHT, you still have to connect to nodes. Without DHT you are at the behest of whatever torrent tracker(s) are in use. Most of which are extremely easy to eavesdrop on. Why would the "feds" want to shut down a major source of idiots for them to harass? I get your post was in jest, but it's so off base I feel the need to warn the morons who might actually think you were being serious.

Re:Programs using BitTorrent

[SharpFang]

World of Tanks uses BT for its updates. You may choose a http alternative but download times will balloon to days; everyone who can't use BT uses them, and overwhelms the update servers every time there is something to update, so using BT to get the update through peer players is no-brainer.

Re: Programs using BitTorrent

[tepples]

See the following video for more info.

The trend of presenting info only as a video disappoints me. For those who cannot watch video, such as while on break at work or on a metered connection, is there a transcript?

Re:Programs using BitTorrent

[TheReaperD]

I use it for things such a LibreOffice downloads and ISO images of things such as The Ultimate Boot CD (UBCD) and I know World of Warcraft uses it for its update engine. There are also a lot of other non-infringing uses of the protocol. The media companies just want the protocol and anything like it to be declared blanket illegal as it is an effective way to transfer large files which the media companies would like all such ability removed from the internet. They want both control over the content itself as well as any possible method of transferring such content so they can double-dip like they do on cable TV.

Re: Programs using BitTorrent

[gurps_npc]

Yeah. I agree. If I wanted video, I would turn on a TV, go to youtube, goto Netflix, goto Hulu.

Besides, how am I supposed to get the news at work without everyone knowing I am goofing off?

If you post a video, post a transcript. But don't post videos.

Re:Programs using BitTorrent

[Anonymous Coward]

Aside from file sharing, how many programs use BitTorrent? I'm not challenging the defense here, as I also don't equate BitTorrent with piracy, especially since my main use is personal file synchronization using BitSync and downloading Linux ISOs.

I seem to recall that Blizzard's Battle.net uses it, which I suspect is a non-trivial percentage of traffic. Do any other game management systems make use of it?

The UK Government use BitTorrent.

https://data.gov.uk/dataset/coins

Re:Programs using BitTorrent

[Brad Eleven]

... also Amazon. The use case is different from getting a copy, more like keeping a copy current, if modified--or updated, if the source is modified. Great for config files and the like.

Re:Programs using BitTorrent

[balbeir]

I use BTSync to synchronise my own files to my various devices.

Same here. And it works like a charm.

Re:Programs using BitTorrent

[Mashiki]

Blizzard uses it for all their games, KoTOR:Online. In the first couple of years that I was playing WoW, and they switched to BT there were a lot of college and university students who could suddenly no longer download patches because their admins blocked access to anything using the torrent protocol. Myself and a couple of friends used to run a small server to host the patches on for guildies and a few others, because you know, direct downloads are fine and aren't used in piracy at all.

Good ...

[gstoddart]

It's time these guys got held to some damned level of standards instead of just making sweeping, bullshit claims like "if they used this protocol they were doing teh piracy".

If they have specific evidence of specific infringement, use it. But simply accusing based on using the protocol is completely wrong. The problem is the copyright cartels essentially want a veto on any technology on the grounds it might be used to infringe. It doesn't work that way, but they keep pushing for it. And some idiot lawmakers are inclined to give it to them.

The courts need to start slapping them down and saying "innuendo and snide suggestion is not evidence, and things which aren't infringing aren't illegal.

"Once they have argued that BitTorrent use is automatically infringing, Plaintiffs seek to introduce other testimony and documents showing that some proportion of data traffic on Cox's network is associated with BitTorrent in order to mislead the jury into thinking that Cox knew or should have known about the infringement that Plaintiffs allege."

Can we introduce into court that all statements made by representatives of the copyright cartel are self serving statements by lying assholes who routinely mislead courts and make claims with no evidence, and routinely resort to obfuscation and perjury to bypass meeting any legal threshold for evidence?

Because that would be awesome.

Re: Good ...

[gstoddart]

But when the protocol is 99% pirated material, I think it's a different story.

Do you have evidence to support this? Or are you just pulling a number out of your ass?

It is a protocol. It has "significant non-infringing" uses.

What the copyright cartel wants to do is equate using a protocol with piracy, without evidence. And then once they've done that, they want to say that individuals using that protocol must have engaged in piracy. I'm sorry, this is the legal equivalent of "if she weighs less than a duck, then she is therefore a witch".

So, no more than you can make the argument that owning a car allows you to speed, therefore if you own a car you speed ... the copyright lawyers don't just get to make shit up and call it facts.

If the courts allow this, they've completely lost the plot, and the copyright cartel will be able to deem innuendo and supposition is legally admissible. And that would be a terrible idea.

Sorry, but no. The copyright cartel bought some bad laws in the form of the DMCA and other things. And one of the many things they wanted was to give themselves almost zero standard for evidence or penalty for misusing the system -- which means they want a law which allows them to do anything they want without consequence or oversight.

It really is time to rein them in with a much shorter leash and remind them they don't get to make up "facts" to suit themselves. Because somewhere along the line they've bought themselves laws which gives them all the power, and no responsibility.

Interesting Bit

[oshkrozz]

I suspect what is starting to happen is COX is starting to realize that before it was fairly passive, all they had to do was hand over info. However, with TIPP and other programs being pushed through it will cost them actual dollars to police for the entertainment industry, payments that can not be so easy to extract from users. They want to now make sure that burden is placed on the entertainment industry and not themselves. There is no altruistic goal here, just who has to pay.

Generally happy with Cox

[david.emery]

I've had both residential and now business grade internet with Cox, and I've been generally happy with the service. It's been reliable, tech support when I've needed it has actually been helpful and on-site repairs are usually same-day or early the next day. The only real problem I had was when their repairmen mis-coded a service call and I got billed for it. But Cox billing fixed it right away.

So it doesn't surprise me that Cox is bucking the anti-consumer wave by challenging music industry subpoenas. And it's also good business, so they don't have a bunch of lawyers poking around their data, while paying their own lawyers to watch over them.

As an avid Humble Bundle buyer,

[pecosdave]

I have to agree. I get my books, movies, and whatever else I buy from the Humble Bundle (that isn't a video game) using torrents. 100% legit and paid for.

did what now?

[PopeRatzo]

BitTorrent Usage Doesn't Equal Piracy

Then you're doing it wrong.

Since when does a download of IP

[fred911]

prove the recipient doesn't have a license for the use of the IP?

  Even if the holder of a license is able to prove that an individual obtained a copy via what ever protocol, be it from a swarm, FTP or any method, how is that proof the recipient lacks license? How much longer do we have to wait before the burden of proof is restored to a legal level from the current mobster level that exists?