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ISIS's Hunt For a Bogus Superweapon

Posted by samzenpus on from the free-energy-cannon dept.

schnell writes: The New York Times Magazine has a fascinating story about ISIS efforts to get their hands on a mysterious and powerful superweapon called Red Mercury. The problem is that by consensus among scientific authorities, Red Mercury doesn't exist. And yet that hasn't stopped the legend of Red Mercury, touted by sources from Nazi conspiracy theorists to former Manhattan Project scientists, as having magical properties. Middle East weapons traders have even spun elaborate stories for its properties (ranging from thermonuclear explosive properties to sexual enhancement) and origins and sources (from Soviet weapons labs to Roman graveyards). What can account for the enduring myth of Red Mercury — is it rampant scientific illiteracy, the power of urban legend and shared myth, or something else?

49 of 330 comments (clear)

  1. Next up: by ColdWetDog · · Score: 5, Funny

    We tell them Andromeda Strain was a documentary.

    --
    Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
  2. Don't you mean Allah? by r-diddly · · Score: 5, Funny

    The New York Times Magazine has a fascinating story about ISIS efforts to get their hands on a mysterious and powerful superweapon called [Allah]. The problem is that by consensus among scientific authorities, [Allah] doesn't exist. And yet that hasn't stopped the legend of [Allah], touted by sources from Nazi conspiracy theorists to former Manhattan Project scientists, as having magical properties. Middle East weapons traders have even spun elaborate stories for its properties (ranging from thermonuclear explosive properties to sexual enhancement) and origins and sources (from Soviet weapons labs to Roman graveyards). What can account for the enduring myth of [Allah] — is it rampant scientific illiteracy, the power of urban legend and shared myth, or something else?

    1. Re:Don't you mean Allah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exactly.

    2. Re:Don't you mean Allah? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      And "exactly" in this context is street slang for whoosh

    3. Re:Don't you mean Allah? by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

      More precisely, "the" god. Your god, you see, doesn't exist.

      "When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours." - Stephen Roberts

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    4. Re:Don't you mean Allah? by meglon · · Score: 5, Informative

      Of course.. it's more of the same "us good, them bad" bullshit. The Christian "God" and the Islamic "Allah" are the same idea/entity/delusion. Both religions stem from Judaism, and both rely heavily on the Old Testament in a lot of their teaching.

      Judaism has a bunch of prophets, but Jesus isn't the messiah. Christianity (protestant) has elevated Jesus to the only one it really cares about, has him as not only the messiah but the living incarnation of God, but largely ignores the rest of the prophets (from the Old Testament). Islam places importance on all the Old Testament prophets, and includes Jesus in the list of prophets, and adds Mohamed to that list.

      The bigger difference is, in both Judaism and Islam, the more conservative the individual, the more strictly they adhere to their respective texts; BUT, the more conservative the Christians here in the US are, the less they actually LIVE in the manner he teaches them too.... so in reality they probably should be considered a completely different religion, as they don't follow the teachings of pretty much their only prophet/messiah (in the US, they tend to rely much more heavily on the Old Testament, and pretty much ignore the actual teachings of the New Testament... you know, where Jesus actually shows up).

      --
      Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  3. Whoa hold your horses by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Are you telling me a group of religious fundamentalists are scientifically illiterate??

  4. Scientific illiteracy for the win by Falconnan · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The nature of a group like ISIS (though I hear they hate being called DAESH, which is a good reason to) leads them to be somewhat gullible on such matters. So this is not surprising. But part of me is oddly reassured by the fact the most feared terrorist organization in the world is on a massive snipe hunt.

  5. red mercury by turkeydance · · Score: 2

    movie title...band name...porn id....too many possibilities.

    1. Re:red mercury by R3d+M3rcury · · Score: 5, Interesting

      ...Slashdot ID...

  6. Maybe... by sstern · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Maybe they're thinking of Ice-9?

    --
    --Steve
  7. Obligatory by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    What can account for the enduring myth of Red Mercury — is it rampant scientific illiteracy, the power of urban legend and shared myth, or something else?

    Yes.

  8. dihydrogen monoxide by twmcneil · · Score: 3, Funny

    I hope they don't learn about the absolutely lethal dihydrogen monoxide. They'll be all over that shit.

    Oh, I let the cat out of the bag didn't I?

    --
    "The ferrets, they're every where I tell you!"
  9. Ark of the Covenant! by Zobeid · · Score: 5, Funny

    Red Mercury is totally bogus. If they were smart, they'd go to Ethiopia and swipe the Tabota Seyen -- the Ark of the Covenant. There's your super-weapon. I mean, all you have to do is carry it in front of your army, and it just wipes out your enemies in masse! The Ethiopians themselves have used it multiple times in battle.

    Did you guys *see* what it did in Raiders of the Lost Ark? That movie was totally fact-based! ;)

  10. Be careful hunting for a new "Red Matter" by Cito · · Score: 2

    It gave Spock COPD

  11. Re:Red Mercury confirmed: by binarylarry · · Score: 5, Funny

    Pff I have Red Mercury for sale also, finest quality.

    Only $19 Billion and I throw in 3 additional virgins and projection TV!

    Come on down to Crazy Achmed's WMD Emporium!

    No CIA or NSA please.

    --
    Mod me down, my New Earth Global Warmingist friends!
  12. Annoying by mhkohne · · Score: 2

    As much as I like laughing at idiots, I'm not sure that letting them know it's bullshit is in anyone's best interest. Every bit of money and manpower they devote to finding shit that doesn't exist is money and manpower that's not killing everyone else.

    In fact, the RIGHT approach to this would have been to seed the marketplace with various government agents leading the bad guys on in their hunt for this mcguffin.

    Remember folks: DON'T educate the bad guys. Don't tell them what they are doing wrong - it's counterproductive to make them smarter.

    --
    A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
    1. Re:Annoying by gman003 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I thought this too, but after reading the article, it seems knowledge that red mercury is fake is already easily found. They just ignore it, often rationalizing the evidence of a hoax as a government-run disinformation campaign. They'll just think the same of the NYT's article - perhaps it will even egg them on, if the government is so desperate as to have their news puppets push this story (or so they'll phrase it).

  13. Re: It powers the reactor by ememisya · · Score: 2

    It must work with a cold fusion reactor.

  14. Re:Red Mercury = Wildly Batshit Insane by PopeRatzo · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You know, there may be more to this story than meets the eye. The New York Times loves to monger for war. During the run-up to Iraq, they were some of the biggest cheerleaders for glorious victory over the axis of evil. Also, let's remember that the US gov't has this penchant for psy-ops that include ridicule of enemies, and for using the US media to spread them. During WWII, they tried to spread "Hitler only has one testicle" and during the Cold War, there were practically new rumors about Castro every week. The CIA even tried to him thallium salts, which would make his beard fall out. The thinking being that those stupid Cubans, seeing their leader's naked chin, would then overthrow the communists. Even today, we have "Hitler was gay" rumors floated in the media. It almost seems like our intelligence apparatus likes to spread misinformation even when it's no longer needed. Maybe just to stay in practice.

    I'm not saying that people who are stupid enough to believe they are the harbingers of a worldwide caliphate are not also stupid enough to believe in "Red Mercury", but I just caution people that when it comes to warmongering, our government is not above using rumor and falsehood.

    Remember George Bush's "yellowcake uranium"?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
  15. Islam's relationship to modern science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    Below is but a few of the many recent noteworthy contributions from the so-called religion of peace to the field of Scientific Advancement

    Polio is making a come back in Afghanistan, Nigeria and Pakistan, thanks to Islam, many health workers were killed because they were accused of trying to make the little children infertile with the polio vaccine

    Islamic clerics from Saudi Arabia claim that female who drive are prone to damage their ovaries

    And if you really want to know how moslem feel about science, I encourage you to read an article from the Discover Magazine to find out

    http://discovermagazine.com/20...

    ... and yes, to most moslems, science has to follow the quran or it'll be deemed to be haram

    1. Re:Islam's relationship to modern science by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Modded troll, but each statement is true.
      Every refugee who goes to a non-Islamic country "votes with their feet" against Islam.

    2. Re: Islam's relationship to modern science by GCsoftware · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Yes, because Shariah does not allow a valid Caliph (whom al-Baghdadi is, btw - he meets all the qualifications including being Qurayshi, the first real Caliph since like the Abbasids) to recognise any borders or accept any peace treaties longer than 10 years.

      It's the duty of the Caliph to wage Jihad and conquer as much as possible territory to be included in Dar al-Islam - should he not do so, he would no longer be worthy of bays'a [allegiance] of Muslims.

      It's not so much lebensraum but rather territory that hasn't yet been occupied by the Ummah (basically the nation that is Muslim).

      This is the hardcore Salafi doctrine by which people like Daeesh operate by and it's theologically valid, though batshit insane.

      HOWEVER, only about 70-80% of Muslims are Sunnis and of those maybe 10-15% are Salafis.

      So no, the "mohammedic brutalism" will not be carried with them - they've seen what life under a Caliphate is like and they want the hell out of there.

      I can say this with some certainty as during my last 3 years in Beirut (which BTW has more Syrian refugees than ANY Western city) say that the Daeesh are a bunch of psychopathic foreign assholes led by an eloquent sociopath from Baghdad.

    3. Re: Islam's relationship to modern science by rgbatduke · · Score: 5, Interesting

      This is the hardcore Salafi doctrine by which people like Daeesh operate by and it's theologically valid, though batshit insane.

      HOWEVER, only about 70-80% of Muslims are Sunnis and of those maybe 10-15% are Salafis.

      Oooo, let's do the arithmetic. There are roughly 1.6 billion Muslims (sources: multiple, although many would go as high as 1.9 billion and rising). Let's be conservative and go with 70% of the smaller number -- 0.7 x 1.6 = 1.12 billion are Sunnis. Of these (again, being conservative) 10% are Salafis. That means 112 million Muslims are Salafis! Or as many as 200 million, of one uses the higher end of that projection. Of the Salafis, roughly 10 million are estimated to be Salafi Jihadists. So sure, less than one percent, but the original numbers are so large that the actual numbers are still huge, if you view them as a potential army and recruiting ground for violent Jihad.

      So what you are saying is that the Daeesh are a huge bunch of psychopathic assholes led by an eloquent sociopath from Baghdad, because while it is true that all Salafis, no matter how batshit insane the theology to which they subscribe, are not Daeesh Jihadists, they are at the very least a fertile ground for recruitment and have the potential to become a bandwagon several hundred million strong if ISIS appears to be succeeding, and it also strongly suggests that they aren't all foreign psychopathic assholes. There is a rather large pool of the domestic home-grown type.

      All of which was true for Al-Queda as well, as it isn't just Salafi Jihadists. Jihad is comparatively ecumenical in Islam, and while it is not necessarily violent, it can easily become violent, often quite rapidly. There is a large disaffected population of young, volatile Muslims worldwide. In some, but not all, non-Muslim countries they feel highly marginalized. In many Muslim countries the governments are so corrupt that even though Muslims per se aren't marginalized, life is worse than it is under the foreign non-Muslim governments, marginalization or not. Then there is the antique Sunni vs Shia problem -- a division that perpetuates Muslim on Muslim violence and weakens Islam immeasurably as its adherents perpetually discover that the enemy of my enemy is a better friend, Muslim or not. Far too much of Islam is tribal culture still living in the 8th or 9th century, but dreaming of the 12th and 13th centuries when it was a, perhaps the, dominant world power. Young Muslims see this division and are easy meat for any charismatic religious leader who promises to end the rift and restore Islam to its "rightful" status as a, no, as the dominant world culture.

      At the end of the day, though, there is the Quran. And the Quran is a stupendously violent document. It was a revolutionary document back when it was written, designed to generate an us vs them mentality and create a social and religious identity to support the establishment of a violently conquered tribal empire. It succeeded. Its memes are strong. This makes the followers of any sort of literalist interpretation of the Quran enormously dangerous to non-believers, because it quite literally makes converting or killing or enslaving them a holy duty, especially if they in any way interfere with or refuse to live under the religious laws of Islam, believer or not. This isn't really arguable -- one can just read the damn thing and see for yourself (but as usual with holy scriptures, nobody does, they just prefer to quote what somebody else says about them in a pious way). Being a liberal Muslim is even more difficult than it is to be a liberal Jew or Christian, and that really isn't easy if one reads, say Numbers 31 in the OT to see how God really feels about the Midianites and non-Jews in general, or reads Leviticus to see how he really feels about slavery and women. In all cases one has to sort of elide all of the passages that don't agree with what you want to believe is The Good, an

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
    4. Re: Islam's relationship to modern science by NoImNotNineVolt · · Score: 2

      But nobody reads the Quran, any more than they read Numbers, or Leviticus, or Acts, or the Book of Mormon (which is a REAL hoot).

      I've read Numbers and Leviticus. The first five books, really. Leviticus was interesting, somewhat, in an anthropological sense. Numbers, on the other hand, was painful. Like reading the census, in prose. Either way, I credit actually reading part of the Christian Bible (the Jewish Torah?) with helping me develop a healthy atheism.

      But you wrote a fantastic post. I hope you're modded up.

      --
      Chuuch. Preach. Tabernacle.
    5. Re: Islam's relationship to modern science by rgbatduke · · Score: 3, Insightful

      The census in prose with the lovely insertions of slaughtering the Midianite captives including women and children EXCEPT for the young virginal girls who were given to Moses' soldiers to -- wait for it -- rape and enslave, followed by a half page of tallying up the loot of a genocidally slaughtered civilization and recording how much of it Moses, the priests, and the war captains got. If one rewrote it and published it as an account of what the ISIS "caliph" did with, say, Beirut or Damascus, the world would be shocked and cry out everything from genocide to infanticide, but because, well, it's MOSES, well then it is OK. Even Jesus loved Moses, and entertained the man himself during his transfiguration.

      Come to think of it, a lot of what ISIS has done does fit right in with Old Testament reports of God's Own People.

      rgb

      --
      Even when the experts all agree, they may well be mistaken. --- Bertrand Russell.
  16. Re:Red Mercury = Wildly Batshit Insane by Gr8Apes · · Score: 2

    people who are wildly batshit insane keep yakking about the mythical "red mercury"

    Or they watched Star Trek's "Red Matter" plot....

    --
    The cesspool just got a check and balance.
  17. I know where you can get all you need by paiute · · Score: 2

    It's at the bottom of a big pit on Oak Island. Just keep digging. It's down there.

    --
    If Slashdot were chemistry it would look like this:Cadaverine
  18. Re:They are idiots by somenickname · · Score: 2

    I guess it's a matter of perspective. They've managed to conquer a small swath of barely ariable land, sell numerous ancient artifacts that they didn't discover and kill an infitesimally small percentage of westerners. And they did all of that using the technology of the "much more clever" westerners.

  19. They should check out by rossdee · · Score: 4, Funny

    the nearest Ford/Lincoln car dealer

  20. Star wars missile defense by goombah99 · · Score: 2

    Or it's like how the star wars missile defense project was supposed to work, billions spent and nothing happend.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
    1. Re:Star wars missile defense by MikeMo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Actually, that was about convincing the Russians it would work, and then they would bankrupt themselves trying to keep up. So, yeah, that worked.

    2. Re:Star wars missile defense by JoeMerchant · · Score: 3, Interesting

      When you spend Billions, stuff happens. One thing that came out of Star Wars was new buildings on University campuses, mostly devoted to Physics and Engineering. After those buildings were built in the 1980s, lots of theoretical research was done in the 1990s. And in the 2010s we actually have field deployable, military rail guns that are pretty damn impressive. Kinetic weapons so powerful that they don't need explosives. Are any orbiting the earth as part of an ICBM defense system? I would hope that if they are, we are capable of keeping that a secret.

    3. Re:Star wars missile defense by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      And in the 2010s we actually have field deployable, military rail guns that are pretty damn impressive.

      No we don't. De have a few very impressive demo models, but there are still huge problems like excessive barrel wear. Like so excessive it needs a rebuild after every shot.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:Star wars missile defense by RuffMasterD · · Score: 2

      I doubt it. That sounds like political ass covering. Communism had run out of steam of its own accord by the late 80s. Poland democratically elected a non-communist president. Hungary tore down their fence with Austria (yeah, I know...). East Germany could no longer convince its own citizens that the Berlin wall for their own protection. Romania simply executed its communist leader. Admittedly, that might have had something to do with austerity. Bulgarias communist leader stepped down voluntarily without major incident. These people didn't care about some missile defense system. They simply wanted democracy, freedom, and no more oppression. Many great scientific and technological advances were made during the cold war for sure (SAGE is particularly impressive), but the missile defense system or the supposed bankruptcy of the Soviet Union were not amongst them.

      --
      Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
  21. Re:Red Mercury = Wildly Batshit Insane by labnet · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Whenever I travel and turn on CNN (as we don't get it at home), I feel like someone served up a meringue. It tastes sweet but has no real substance and certainly isn't good for you.
    Take this for example.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
    Its a video of Putin talking about ISIS. And I'm suddenly struck by what feels like raw honesty from a politician, not this fake pseudo speak we normally get from the MSM and western politics.

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    46137
  22. Re:Sexual enhancement by 12WTF$ · · Score: 2

    What is it with these dune coon jihadis?

    What is it with that hair, Donald?

    It's RED MERCURY powered hair, derrrr.

    --
    Cryonics - Keep cool and carry on.
  23. Re:Red Mercury confirmed: by lord_mike · · Score: 2

    Better be careful.... you remember what happened to Doc Brown in Back to the Future when he sold the Libyans a bogus nuke...

  24. Re:Star Trek? by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Funny

    I take it they haven't seen the Star Trek reboots...

    Well they tried. They were told it was important to watch the movies in order, but they just couldn't get past Star Trek 5 - as soon as Kirk met God, the Daesh felt obligated to burn down the theater.

    --
    #DeleteChrome
  25. I got your Red Mercury right here! by Zenjamin · · Score: 2

    I got your Red Mercury right here! I mean, not here now. I have it, I just need some time to deliver.

  26. Ob: homeopathy by Hognoxious · · Score: 4, Funny

    And just as available is its organic (and thus far more potent) analog, hydrogen hydroxide.

    It's much more effective if you dilute in one to a million with water.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  27. Re:In thermometers by meglon · · Score: 2

    Some thermometers have red mercury.

    No. Some thermometers have alcohol dyed red. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  28. Re:In the room beneath the Sphynx! by meglon · · Score: 2

    However, no archeologist has been allowed in, yet.

    It's just that Egypt wants to maintain security of their grain storage.

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  29. Re:High Level Waste by TheRaven64 · · Score: 4, Informative

    That's almost as silly as Red Mercury. Do you know why no terrorist plots have actually detonated a dirty bomb? It's not because radioactive materials are hard to get hold of, it's because building an effective dirty bomb is really hard. You have to find something that is sufficiently radioactive to be a problem, that is easy to disburse over a wide area, but which won't disburse so far / quickly that it will simply drop to background radioactivity levels.

    --
    I am TheRaven on Soylent News
  30. Red Mercury its a good thing by mlush · · Score: 2

    Terrorist money spent on Red Mercury is money not being spend on bombs and bullets. Perhaps more time should be spend debunking the debunkers :-)

  31. Re:The 'intellect' of the Sunni extremists.. by meglon · · Score: 3, Interesting

    While Christian revelationists aren't actively trying to bring about the end times as directly as the Islamic ones are, they're certainly not phased by the idea that they'll be horrific times.

    http://www.christianpost.com/topics/end-of-the-world/

    Now, no offense, but this is really a no true scotsman moment. While you may wish no Christian would be pining for the end of the world, it doesn't take more than a few seconds of searching to find innumerable instances where VERY high profile individuals.. and LOTS of them.. are doing exactly that. What you're trying to say is that IF any Christian was wanting the end times, then they're a very fringe small group... at the same time ALL Muslims want to actively cause the end times... and that's nothing more than another "us good, them bad" shlock.

    What we see here in the US, and it's very very easy to see, is a whole lot of high profile, VERY influential people in positions of power, who use and abuse religion so they themselves can have power.... and a whole lot of willfully blind people enabling them. You look at some of the current and past presidential candidates on the right, and you know that any number of them wouldn't hesitate to murder thousands or even hundreds of thousands of people in other countries for no real reason.... and yes, that's one of those "ripped from the headlines" based on the reality of 2003 on observations. When Bush said "God wants me to..." that was not followed with "be a peaceful person."

    --
    Fascism: An authoritarian and nationalistic right-wing system of government and social organization. See also: NAZI's
  32. Re: It powers the reactor by 3.5+stripes · · Score: 2

    No, I think he's pretty much unashamedly a racist.

    --


    He tried to kill me with a forklift!
  33. Re:Red Mercury = Wildly Batshit Insane by LWATCDR · · Score: 3, Informative

    Dude you so fell for it. Red Mercury is very real and dangerous. It can take out an entire city with ease. It is a meta-stable nuclear isomer that when you apply a resonant magnetic field will cause a cascade release of photons in the gamma ray range powerful enough to act a trigger in e thermonuclear device. Even without a fusion device it would cause a large gamma ray event.
    Thank goodness that ISIS is still wasting it's time with small terror attacks like the one in France. If they ever dedicated themselves 100% to the acquisition of red mercury they might destroy the western world.

    --
    See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
  34. Re:Red Mercury = Wildly Batshit Insane by T.E.D. · · Score: 4, Funny

    Nobody watches CNN at home. Their entire viewership consists of people stuck waiting in airport terminals and Doctors' offices.