Hardware For a Cheap Linux Desktop (phoronix.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Outside of the limelight of Intel's Core "Skylake" processors is the cheapest model, a $60 Intel Pentium G4400 dual-core processor that runs at 3.3Gz and has built-in HD Graphics 510. Ubuntu Linux results for this CPU show the cut-down Skylake graphics are the worst aspect of this budget processor while the CPU performance is okay if speed isn't a big factor and your workloads don't mind the lack of AVX support. To pair with the cheap Skylake Pentium processors are more Intel H110-powered motherboards appearing, with some also retailing for under $60 while being basic yet functional as a severely cutdown version of the Intel Z170 chipset. If pursuing this route for a budget Linux PC, it's possible to build a socketed Skylake system for less than $200. Those of you who have recently built, or are planning out a new budget Linux machine, what internals do you recommend?

Comments

AMD

[rlp]

I have a couple of AMD based desktops I use as file / compute servers. Both running Ubuntu and hosting VM's with VirtualBox and running as fileservers with software RAID-5 and RAID-10. The CPU's are 6 and 8 core and were fairly cheap. Graphics was not a consideration and the machines are servers.

Re:AMD

[jedidiah]

Cheap motherboards from the dawn of time quite often have 6 or 8 SATA ports. Even small tower cases tend to have space for plenty of drives.

Re:AMD

[rlp]

The larger server has four spinning drives and one small non-RAID SSD for the OS. MB supports six SATA drives, tower case supports even more. Backup is to an external (removable) USB drive and is accomplished via rsync and tar.

Re:AMD

[Harlequin80]

I have a 14 drive NAS box based on an old AMD board with 8 sata ports on board and I combine that with a cheap highpoint sas controller to add 8 more ports...

Re:AMD

[Zero__Kelvin]

Well, if you are going to answer your own question ...

Re:AMD

[rrohbeck]

Same here. AM3/AM3+ also support ECC RAM in general which is kinda important for file servers.

Bla Bla Bla

[thechemic]

I would run a XEON X5690 (6 core 3.46ghz) with 24GB of RAM and an SSD. You can find entire machines with Quadro video, audio, and a shitload of other components for about $200.00

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[avandesande]

Sounds like a power hog

Re: Bla Bla Bla

[kenh]

Buying new parts will always be more expensive than used parts - take a look at slightly older off-lease systems... You'll get faster parts for fewer dollars at the expense of heat/power consumption.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[bobbied]

Who cares? Unless you are running a rack full of these things, power consumption seems to be the least of anybody's worries....

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[cdrudge]

I would run a XEON X5690 (6 core 3.46ghz) with 24GB of RAM and an SSD. You can find entire machines with Quadro video, audio, and a shitload of other components for about $200.00

I'd love to know where you found an entire machine with those specs (or even without the SSD) for $200.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[ArchieBunker]

If you go the hex core route, look for X5650 boxes. You'll find thousands for sale. I bought a Lenovo earlier this year with that CPU and 24Gb of ram for $300. The W3680 Xeons are a bit faster but not nearly as numerous.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[Glarimore]

I'm with you. Especially since the CPU used by itself typically runs between 250-350.

GP is either delusional or gets free hand-me-downs from corporate IT.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[ilsaloving]

But... where? From Lenovo's website? Walters White Van Specials?

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[thechemic]

I'm neither delusional nor a hand-me-down moocher.

I didn't spend a lot of time searching for an example because I don't need to waste hours to prove a point. Here is a 6 core in the ballpark of the stated price. If you spend some time, you can find listings that weren't well described, scratch and dent, short sale, and a ton of reasons why they sell for crazy cheap. http://www.ebay.com/itm/381478...

That's just a quick example. I regularly locate much more capable machines at lower prices. If you believe you must pay market value for everything you buy, perhaps it is you that is delusional, sir. There are people that make millions buying low and selling high. If you spend less time insulting random people on slashdot, perhaps you'd have more time to find better deals.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[cdrudge]

OP said x5690 with 24GB of ram for $200. Your example is a processor ~25% slower for $100 more. They're as low as $170 on eBay, but not with that much memory nor drive trays. So not exactly the same or really all that close for the price point stated.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[tigersha]

Ok, I'll bite. If I write you cheque, will you deliver by mail? Do you have 5 of those in stock?

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[Lagmo]

Actually doubt that system is all that bad on power consumption, it's so powerful that it probably just idles a lot, DIMMs use very little power and so do SSDs as long as PSU efficiency isn't total crap(doubtful in a workstation/server class product) it probably consumes less than 100W at the wall most of the time.

Even old graphics cards like Radeon 5xx0 series(anno 2009) have reasonable power saving modes when not working hard, my 5870 crossfire rig pulls ~120W at the wall under normal, non gaming, loads. Little enough that i could run it for several hours per day off just a few m2 of Photovoltaics.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[greenfruitsalad]

search ebay for HP z400, z600 or z800 workstation

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[laie_techie]

I would run a XEON X5690 (6 core 3.46ghz) with 24GB of RAM and an SSD. You can find entire machines with Quadro video, audio, and a shitload of other components for about $200.00

Where would you find all that for about $200? A XEON X5690 costs $647.95 on newegg.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[DuckDodgers]

Yes. I managed to buy $900 in components for $500 in a used gaming machine on Ebay. You just have to be patient.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[Harlequin80]

Depends on where you live. Power cost in Australia actually makes it worth considering. For example I have a NAS which has 12GB of storage RAIDZ based on 14 drives and I'm going to replace it this holiday break because new 4 x 6tb hard drives will give me more space and the electricity cost will pay back in 18 months.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[Blaskowicz]

It's a sought after CPU for upgrades yet an old discarded workstation is cheaper or the same price. That's normal, it's often how it goes. Also over $600 is nuts : that must be a leftover unsold part that hangs around in inventory. If you're going to buy new hardware a 4790K is better and way cheaper, you will get CPU + motherboard + RAM for the price (or less) of the old CPU alone.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[Glarimore]

That's a different CPU than the one in your original comment.

When I search for the CPU in your first comment, the price range on Ebay (used) is $250-350 for completed and sold listings. The same search for the CPU on the box you subsequently linked show it going for $80-100 used. These are two completely different ballparks. In fact, the price of an entire rig built around the cheaper one is less than the cost of more expensive CPU by itself.

Nah, I'm not delusional, I just do research before I open my mouth.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[ilsaloving]

ty

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[thechemic]

and I clearly said:

I didn't spend a lot of time searching for an example because I don't need to waste hours to prove a point.

That's just a quick example. I regularly locate much more capable machines at lower prices.

Perhaps you shouldn't take things out of context before opening your mouth. I also said:

If you spend some time...

Clearly, you didn't spend any time, your "research" is poor, and you're using your inexperience as an excuse for your own mouth.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[Zero__Kelvin]

Why? (Sounds more like you have no idea what you are talking about)

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[Harlequin80]

Yeah it's why I'm thinking about upgrading.... Hate not being able to fit more than 1-2 movies on it...

Re: Bla Bla Bla

[witeshadow6129]

Really? Amazon has the chip for $300. Find me a complete system?

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[bobbied]

This poster clearly indicated "Desktop" which is totally different from "Server".

For most residential consumers, the power draw of a desktop is totally immaterial. Gamers routinely slap 1500W power supplies into desktop boxes with power hungry processors and video hardware with 10,000 RPM drives and huge fans to keep it all cool. They are not concerned that the beast is dissipating 500W of heat that they have to pay to generate, then pay again to pump outside in the summer.

Re:Bla Bla Bla

[Harlequin80]

The very first original poster did indicate a desktop. But who puts a XEON in a desktop machine?

How about an AMD AM1 combo?

[__aaclcg7560]

I recently picked up an ECS KAM1-I motherboard ($25) for the AMD AM1 processor ($25 to $50). The motherboard has two serial ports and two serial port headers for four COM ports. I'm planning to build out a Linux console server for my Cisco certification rack. This is cheaper than trying to convert a Cisco router into a terminal server.

Re:How about an AMD AM1 combo?

[__aaclcg7560]

That's a complete overkill for my modest Cisco rack that typically has four active console port. If I get dedicated console server appliance, I won't be able to use it for offloading compilation jobs. A hammer isn't always the best solution for everything.

Re:How about an AMD AM1 combo?

[blind biker]

This is one of the most hardware-informative posts I've read the whole year (and the year is almost over). What I've learned:

There is a motherboard I can buy that comes with as many as FOUR serial ports!
It's a very cheap motherboard, too!
It can be used as a console server.

Thank you!

Re: How about an AMD AM1 combo?

[KenHansen]

What? It's preferable to spend more money, hand-assemble and configure your custom solution to a robust, industry-standard device whic serves the same function for less money because it has 'too many' ports? Kids today...

Re: How about an AMD AM1 combo?

[__aaclcg7560]

Motherboard and CPU will set me back by $50 to $75, depending on which AMD AM1 CPU I get. I got all the other parts to put this system together. As a general purpose computer running Linux, I can use it for other things than a terminal server. How well does your expensive "industry-standard device" run at compiling C programs?

Re:How about an AMD AM1 combo?

[__aaclcg7560]

I'm not able to find the USB to 4-port RS-232 cable at any of my regular vendors. Amazon UK has for 28 pounds ($47 USD). Throw in a Raspberry Pi kit, it's more than what I'm paying for a motherboard and CPU. If I didn't have all the parts to build out the motherboard and CPU, this might be a cheaper option.

Define requirements

[geekmux]

Naturally the answers provided here depend on the requirements (oddly enough, even geeks forget to state those)

And why reinvent the wheel? Because Pi and like boards exist is the reason this question has almost become irrelevant. You either need something that can be solved with a "cheap" pre-built board, or you're likely in need of $300 or more in hardware.

Requirements matter. Otherwise, you're just fucking around in the sandbox.

Re:Define requirements

[Noble713]

^This. I read the title and thought "RPi2 + peripherals. This question was answered long ago."
I just don't see the use case for a POS bargin basement full-size *LINUX* desktop. If you were someone playing 10-year old Windows games....maybe.

Re:Define requirements

[tepples]

I just don't see the use case for a POS bargin basement full-size *LINUX* desktop.

Perhaps for uses that a Pi would fit plus the ability to run the occasional Windows-only application in Wine.

Re:Define requirements

[mikael]

I'd say the Pi is like what DOS programming was back in the early 1990's. You were lucky to have 2 Megabytes of system RAM to play with and to have 320x200x256 VGA color screen. That did get bumped up to 640x480, 800x600, 1024x768 then 1280x1024x256. Games were still mostly 256 color up until the mid 1990's.

Re:Define requirements

[mcrbids]

Boy, this is spot on!

I have a server that I use as a personal media server, and backups. I bought it at a yard sale for $10. Big box, lots of cheap, added several high capacity hard drives, performance is strictly irrelevant, and the several-generations-ago AMD Athlon 64 (remember those?) gamer board supports the 4GB of ECC DDR(1) RAM that is probably overkill for the need. I have no doubt that I could get at least another 5 years out of this ancient hardware for the need and be perfectly happy with it.

Not having requirements specified in a "is this sufficient?" question is a bit like asking "is this jacket warm enough?" without specifying where you're going to go in it.

Re:Define requirements

[erapert]

No problem. The ODROID XU4 has plenty of horsepower in the sub-hundred dollar range.

Re:Define requirements

[Blaskowicz]

Running on low end flash and everything else on a single USB is a pain yes. Although if you just want to run bash or twm with xclock and xeyes it shouln't matter.

Re:Define requirements

[rwa2]

Is browsing Slashdot a requirement? Even my main gaming machine struggles with /. nowadays... Each Slashdot tab in Chrome consumes over 2GB of RAM, so having a few discussions open brings my machine to its knees. This happening to anyone else? Or is there something I have to update in Chrome's embedded flash player? :P

How cheap?

[XLT_Frank]

I would look at this: http://ameridroid.com/products... You can run both Ubuntu, Android, and Open Media Vault to name a few. It has USB 3.0 and 1Gbps Ethernet along with an eMMC5.0 port for your system drive. I have an older model and it is pretty sweet.

Good quality memory

[Bearhouse]

You can get lucky with generic, but I've had too many hard to track down issues over the years that were ultimately caused by buggy main memory chips. Whatever you buy, torture test them first - many tools available.
Do the same with the disk - SSD is the way to go, but again do your research since some disk have poor firmware, and /or don't support all file system functions.

Re:Good quality memory

[bobbied]

I think I'd avoid doing a torture test of a disk drive of any type, but especially an SSD. Technically you are wearing out the SSD which has a finite number of write cycles before it will stop working on you. Problem is, you don't really know how many cycles an SSD has, so you are just wasting your drive's life. Plus, SSD's slow down over time as they are used and the drive controller attempts to level the number of writes in each sector.

For memory, sure, test away, get the whole system good and hot, and make sure you don't see errors. But for SSD's buy them on sustained read/write rates and reputation. Also buy them bigger than you need and only use about 70% of the capacity, just don't try to exhaustively test them.

Re:Good quality memory

[Zero__Kelvin]

"I think I'd avoid doing a torture test of a disk drive of any type, but especially an SSD. Technically you are wearing out the SSD which has a finite number of write cycles before it will stop working on you. Problem is, you don't really know how many cycles an SSD has ..."

If the kind of wear and tear you can create in a few hours or a day of stress testing is significant then your drive is severely flawed. As far as knowing how many cycles it can withstand, it's called a spec sheet.

Re:Good quality memory

[bobbied]

As far as knowing how many cycles it can withstand, it's called a spec sheet.

Yea, it will tell you what the manufacturer claims. Of course, that's an average that is supposed to be based on testing samples which is extremely limited in consumer devices because it takes time and is expensive in a market where quicker means more profit and margins are thin to start with. The numbers *should* be close, but who really knows?

However, You did choose to miss the part where I said that you should buy drives on reputation and transfer speeds and forget testing them... No sense in wearing out your expensive hardware just to prove how durable it is or isn't. There is nothing to be gained in this case. Most disk manufacturers have already exhaustively tested every drive anyway so once you have established that your power supply and drive controller are up to par and you can communicate with the drive there is no sense in hammering the drive just to see if it works.

Think of it like buying an electric car that advertises a 150 mile range on a full charge. Are you going to take it out and drive it until the battery dies jus to prove the thing goes 150 miles when running a battery flat reduces the battery capacity? You are stupid if you do...

Re:Good quality memory

[Zero__Kelvin]

Plonk

I personally recommend the AMD A-Series

[Ruedii]

If you aren't going for the top of the line in processing speed, the AMD A-Series will generally get you more processing power for the money than the Intel equivalents.

If you can do with even less graphics power, similar to that of the intel Skylake processors, you could go with the AMD E-Series, but you would see performance loss in graphically intense desktop applications like web browsing and multimedia. If this is tolerable, then go ahead and save the extra money.

As of motherboards, it depends on what you want to do. So long as you don't want overclocking, any of the basic motherboards will do as the advanced voltage regulators really don't give an advantage on low-end processors unless you overclock. However, I'd recommend getting the better chipset if you want USB 3.0 and other features. If not you can go with the basic model.

As of RAM, for an economy machine you want 4GB to 8GB of RAM, and you probably should go ahead and dual-channel the ram if the motherboard supports it, because it will not cost much extra and almost double your RAM access speed.

Dell T20 server for $139 (CyberMonday sale)

[JoeyRox]

Nice base system with Pentium G3220:

http://slickdeals.net/f/829851...

Re: Dell T20 server for $139 (CyberMonday sale)

[kenh]

The quad-core Xeon version with a 1 TB drive at $279 strikes me as a better deal.

Oddly, this server includes a built-in sound card and can support 4x 3.5" drives AND 2x 2.5" drives, as well as an optical drive.

It uses slightly more expensive ECC RAM

Re: Dell T20 server for $139 (CyberMonday sale)

[JoeyRox]

I agree the Xeon is a better value. I recommended the Pentium since the OP was looking for very low cost. Btw the Xeon system works with non-ECC DIMMs as well.

Forget cheap

[thegarbz]

Those of you who have recently build, or are planning out a new budget Linux machine, what internals do you recommend?

How about people just build a computer that isn't eyegougingly poor to use. $200 for a machine? Is there even $100 left after putting a decent SSD and 16GB of RAM in a desktop machine?

Cheap computers are the reason people hate computers.

Re:Forget cheap

[jedidiah]

Neither of those overblown specs (SSD, 16G RAM) are required to yield a decent PC even if you are running Windows.

Re:Forget cheap

[thegarbz]

That depends entirely on what you think qualifies for "decent".

Computers are slow, everyone says so. Now take a moment to consider why. I've done my time waiting 15+ seconds to open Outlook. I'm through clicking on Firefox and waiting and waiting for the window to show up. I'm sick of running 5-6 programs at once and having a computer slow to a crawl. Great hardware is finally affordable. The first response should not be to use this and skimp out even more on nasty crap that makes computers just as slow as yesteryear.

I consider SSD a minimum requirement for the harddisk serving the OS / applications. I consider 8-16GB of RAM a minimum requirement for anyone doing a modern workload. What's modern? Working with 20mpxl+ images which even entry level cameras can product. Working with 1080p footage or even 4k footage which even entry level cameras can produce. Streaming full screen high-def videos which is about the most common format on youtube with a steady rise in UHD content on the way. Bonus points if you half minimise the screen while processing the full 1080p throwing away quality just so you can read your email / facebook at the same time.

Why build a computer that is becoming obsolete when the you can have ample performance for only a pittance more cash?

Re:What do you plan to do?

[Anonymous Coward]

What do you plan to do on the machine? Program? Surf the web? Use it to monitor something? Play games?

Right. Can't make much of a recommendation without knowing the use case. You can slap a $32 Sempron 3850 in a $28 motherboard with a $40 SSD and 4GB of RAM and have the beginnings of a reasonable web browsing/email computer for $120. Or you could bump up that processor up to an Athlon 5350 and double the RAM for another $40 and have an okay basic computer. Then you could probably do all of those things, except for maybe playing many of the latest and greatest games, without too much trouble.

You really want cheap?

[TWX]

...then go to your local surplus depot for a school system, college, or large company and look for their older high-end workstations and workgroup servers and buy those for very little money, then put your drives of choice in. You'll find Xeons oodles of RAM and if it's a computer designed for a workspace (ie, not a rackmount server) it won't even be loud.

As an added bonus, with equipment that's a few years old you're likely to be able to run Linux out of the box because the early adopters already figured out how to get the hardware working properly.

The only computers I continue to purchase new are portable computers. I buy used stuff for the rest, the last dual-quad Xeon with 32GB RAM cost me a couple hundred bucks.

Re:You really want cheap?

[Coren22]

Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Any idea where to find out about these types of sales? If it helps, I am in Maryland.

Re:You really want cheap?

[TWX]

Go to Google Maps. Look up "surplus" or "college surplus" or "reclamation".

Alternately, call the big organizations in your area and ask the receptionist if they have a surplus property department, and ask to be transferred to them. Ask them if they do retail sales or auctions.

Re:You really want cheap?

[ArchieBunker]

Some universities have a department just for selling surplus items. Call around.

Re:You really want cheap?

[swb]

Is there a central way to do this versus "the surplus depot" or FleaBay? The only way I've ever seen to get anything useful surplus is to know somebody inside. In my experience, the reasonable used hardware get re-purposed at least once internally before it gets turned loose as surplus, and when it does it's often so old as to be handicapped by old hardware standards which make performance fairly useless.

I bought a used Cisco 2960G two years ago for $200, which is still a low price even by recent Ebay standards, but I knew the guy and got the bare-minimum price the money people needed to make their books balance.

Re:You really want cheap?

[TWX]

The local University has a retail surplus depot. That's where I got the dual-Xeon box. One of the local cities has a suprlus depot where the retail-sell old city property, police seized property, and unclaimed property.

some school districts will do surplus sales, but sometimes they don't have the staffing for it so they send stuff to auction.

Re:You really want cheap?

[Anonymous Coward]

I found that Craigslist and Kijiji is the best place to find these types of warehouses.

At least in my city, several of the local warehouses post lists on a bi-weekly basis (almost spam? I suppose) to the "servers" and "computers" keywords.

Re:You really want cheap?

[mikael]

Large corporations like oil companies used to do mass dump-offs of old monitors and cables whenever they got a new service contract. All the old IT equipment would be loaded into dumpsters to be taken straight to the rubbish tips. In the 1980's, that would be dumb terminals and RS-232 cables (replaced with PC's). Then they would dump their old PC's for new ones. Though these days, Dell and HP do the recycling with their service contracts.

Re:You really want cheap?

[lister king of smeg]

Your ideas intrigue me and I would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

Any idea where to find out about these types of sales? If it helps, I am in Maryland.

There is one in Tumwater Washington, they often sell used computers by the the pallet load. don't know where any are on the east coast though.

Re:You really want cheap?

[daboochmeister]

Montgomery County MD sells their 4 - 5 yr old desktops 3x/year. Next sale coming at Gaithersburg HS on 12/12 (show up early, maybe 8:40 - 8:50am - they're first-come first-serve, and they do run out). They're not screamers (my last one bought was an Optiplex 380 mid-size case, 4GB RAM, 120GB hard drive, mid-range Core 2 Duo), but for general desktop/browsing/etc. they're fine. $70 with 19" LCD with speakers, keyboard and mouse. No wifi, need a fob. For more info.

I built a Kabini-based PC, and it's "okay"

[EmagGeek]

I picked up an Asus Kabini SoC motherboard and quad core CPU for about $100. I installed some RAM I had laying around and used similarly "laying around" hardware to finish it up. It's not a bad machine although the built-in graphics are a bit slow on Linux Mint and Ubuntu Desktop.

Real Talk

[Anonymous Coward]

If you just want cheap, a raspi.

If you want cheap and fully functional, get an old thinkpad off ebay.

Raspberry Pi 2

[Anonymous Coward]

You want a cheap desktop machine that runs Linux? Why not get a Raspberry Pi 2? Can't get much cheaper than that, and it isn't a bad little machine.

Runs rings around most of the machines I had 10 years ago...

Re:Raspberry Pi 2

[advocate_one]

the new Pi Zero blows my old laptop (that ran Suse 8.0 into the weeds...

Re: Raspberry Pi 2

[kenh]

Heck, why not the Raspberry Pi Zero? It's even cheaper ($5!) and doesn't have all those GPIO pins wasting all that board space... Sadly, no built-in Ethernet, but Options abound in the USB Ethernet adapter space...

Re: Raspberry Pi 2

[unixisc]

That's why. No Ethernet, no WiFi, and you will need online connectivity to get a lot of stuff needed. Unless everything you need is on the SD

Re: Raspberry Pi 2

[Micah]

Besides no connectivity, and you need more adapters and dongles than with a "normal" Pi, the Pi 2 is a good bit faster than the Pi Zero. It (the Pi 2) is absolutely fast enough for some moderate desktop needs. It could very likely even replace most office computers, assuming any custom apps could be ported to Linux.

Re:Cheap Linux Desktop?

[Anonymous Coward]

This may actually be a good thought. By one of the heavily discounted PCs (black friday/cyber monday) and just reinstall....maybe adding in some extra RAM.

Just buy a laptop

[Fwipp]

$60 CPU + $60 mobo + $40 case/PSU combo = $160. Add in RAM, HDD/SSD, I/O peripherals, and you're definitely gonna be over $200. Just buy a cheap laptop (chromebooks spring to mind), wipe it and put linux on it. Plus, it'll be a laptop. Maybe the performance won't be quite as good, but it'll definitely be serviceable.

Getting on Intel's latest architecture is a fairly meaningless goal.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[tepples]

Just buy a cheap laptop (chromebooks spring to mind), wipe it and put linux on it.

I was under the impression that a Chromebook wiped and reinstalled with GNU/Linux would beg the user to reenable OS verification (which wipes the drive) every time it's turned on. If you're referring to other cheap laptops, there's a good chance of those not working well with GNU/Linux either.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[gaiageek]

I was under the same impression, but it seems you can install a custom BIOS that skips the OS verification/developer mode screen. Of course, if I'm wrong about this, I'd love to hear about it since I bought one of those $100 Acer Chromebooks this past weekend.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[khellendros1984]

They do; in "developer mode", they'll show the warning screen about OS verification for 30 seconds at boot (although that can be skipped with ctrl-d). It's certainly a downside, but I think some people would see that as a fair trade-off for a $150 Linux laptop. Personally, I'd just spend a little more money to pick up a "real" computer and skip the ChromeOS nonsense, but if I had an extremely limited budget, I'd likely put up with a skippable warning like that.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[tepples]

A stranger can wipe a normal laptop to which he has physical access. But only Chrome OS in developer mode encourages any random stranger to do so.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[Gavagai80]

We don't all want laptops. I want a large monitor, I want to be able to move the keyboard around to comfortable positions, I want a mouse, and any minor computing I might want to do away from home is covered by my phone. I've got an old laptop but I only turn it on once every couple of months.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

a "real" computer and skip the ChromeOS nonsense

Even with 30 seconds of sleep inserted, I bet the ChromeOS BIOS still starts loading the kernel sooner than regular BIOS because regular BIOS is so shit.

Advantage of ChromeOS hardware is that Google keeps a tight reign on the OEM so you cannot be pwnt by thunderbolt, AMT, auto-update-over-USB-stick, etc., and offers source for almost everything, including BIOS and embedded controller.

disadvantage is lack of ECC RAM.

potential disadvantage is difficulty getting firmware updates if you wipe ChromeOS. They will update BIOS, charging controller, etc., through their auto-update mechanism. It's fast, reliable, and non-chatty, but I don't know how to do it without ChromeOS (and if it's possible it won't be those three things any more).

The prices are not cheaper than windows hardware with similar specs, but the hardware is better-integrated, and you're supporting people who send Linux commits upstream instead of Microsoft.

The "real computer" dig is getting annoying. Chromebooks have been on the market at least four years now. Linux users should understand what they are by now.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[khellendros1984]

I think that you're either paranoid or insufficiently watchful of your electronics; in my case, it's not likely to be a problem, practically-speaking. Still, my point was that most shortcomings (including that one) might be ignorable if there's enough pressure to get a low-priced gadget.

Re:Just buy a laptop

[khellendros1984]

The "real computer" dig is getting annoying. Chromebooks have been on the market at least four years now. Linux users should understand what they are by now.

What I understand about them is that they're machines that make it difficult to use the way that I'd like, have a tiny amount of local storage, and are fairly crippled without a network connection. The fact is that a non-ChromeOS Linux provides a superset of the functionality available in ChromeOS. Chromebooks are what they are, and that's fine, but they aren't something that I want, and they aren't something that I'm going to take particularly seriously.

Quality cheap system

[slaker]

I've been building inexpensive PCs with Gigabyte H81 ITX motherboards, LGA1150 Pentium G CPUs, 4GB RAM, 120GB mSATA drives and Rosewill ITX chassis. I can build a whole machine for around $250. The chassis will still have room for an optical drive and a pair of hard disks, should you want them.

I specifically like the Gigabyte board for having both mSATA and mini-PCIe slots, plus the cutout to add antennas for 802.11/bluetooth. There's just a lot of flexibility for an ITX machine.

CHIP.

[sims 2]

One of those cheap CHIP computers and a hdmi adapter.

Re:Use a G3258

[IMarvinTPA]

I just built a couple of G3258 machines. It is a good chip, but I probably would have used the G4400 instead if I had noticed it before doing my builds to allow an easier better upgrade to the newer i3/i5/i7s.

I have year-old clearance sale 1GB nvidia 650s that I got cheap that were in the replaced machines.

If you need graphics, buy any nvidia card you can and you'll be better off.

IMarv

sudo apt-get install wine

[tepples]

When your work is 90 percent in apps that are ported to X11/Linux and 10 percent in apps that need Wine, you need an x86. The same is true if some of the Linux apps are proprietary and not compiled for ARM.

Re:sudo apt-get install wine

[unixisc]

How many mainstream Linux apps are proprietary and not compiled for ARM?

Re:sudo apt-get install wine

[Midnight Thunder]

A few corrections:
- Java does run on the Pi: http://www.oracle.com/technetw...
- StarOffice, in the form of LibreOffice does too: http://store.raspberrypi.com/p...

You aren't going to anything amazing of the Pi, but if your expectations are low (in terms of performance) and your budget even smaller, then it will do the job.

Re:sudo apt-get install wine

[tepples]

How many mainstream Linux apps are proprietary and not compiled for ARM?

Just from the top of my head:

But how many remain in wide use? I don't know what decade you're posting from, but the majority of apps you listed were superseded years ago.

Netscape Navigator and Netscape Communicator

Discontinued in favor of SeaMonkey.

StarOffice

Discontinued in favor of LibreOffice.

Sun/Oracle Java

I thought most GNU/Linux users were on IcedTea now instead of using Oracle binaries.

Re:sudo apt-get install wine

[Gavagai80]

Welcome back from the 20 years of suspended animation.

The PC is for job search

[tepples]

1. Get a job

Then what PC should one use to search for a job? And what PC should one use for studies and entertainment before becoming old enough to work as an employee or old enough to sign contracts?

Re:The PC is for job search

[jedidiah]

Plus not everyone is interested in using their PC as an expression of how much money they have to waste (or rather don't). Some people just view the PC as a tool to get shit done. As long as it gets shit done, it doesn't matter how fancy it is or whether or not it can impress some random loser you've never met and never will.

Re:The PC is for job search

[Osgeld]

easy the one at the library or get a job, its not that hard even part time after school for a child to save up 60 bucks for a off lease core 2 duo ya bum

Re:The PC is for job search

[Osgeld]

give you?

sorry I was 14 back in the early 90's and managed to rake / mow oddjob my way into a bottom of the barrel 386 made from random parts when I could afford them, and nowdays when you can buy a off lease core 2 duo for under 100$ shipped whats the problem with working for what you want

Re:The PC is for job search

[tepples]

managed to rake / mow oddjob

Is there always going to be enough "rake / mow oddjob" work for all the kids on the block? Remember that "rake / mow oddjob" on your own parents' house is done for your own room and board.

Re:The PC is for job search

[tepples]

Then what PC should one use to search for a job?

easy the one at the library

Without a PC, how should one find the money to buy a car to commute back and forth to the library to find a job?

its not that hard even part time after school for a child to save up 60 bucks

It is under child labor laws, which end up entirely banning children under 16 from at least one of the essential duties of each of most service sector occupations that I have researched. In Indiana, someone under 16 can't do any job in a restaurant other than server/cashier, for example, and a lot of fast food chains require even cashiers to be 16 to allow for training for other positions in the restaurant. Lawn care is allowed from 12 but works only for the first enterprising kid on the block, not the second.

Re:The PC is for job search

[Osgeld]

dont worry, there's not a second

don't forget mini-itx

[phantomfive]

There are some cheap mini-itx/CPU boards that should be considered. They have a nice form factor, and running Linux shouldn't be a problem (at least, I haven't had problems, ymmv).

Re:Don't go with skylake DDR4

[PingSpike]

This chip (Intel G4400) is interesting for one reason. It has VT-D enabled. This makes it the cheapest Intel chip selling that has that feature. Its still not as cheap as buying an AMD A4 which also has it but you're no longer looking at $200 pay to play on the Intel side if that is what you're after.

A experience with a cheap notebook

[jcdr]

I just buy a cheap notebook based on the Atom Z3735F 1.3GHz, 2G of DDR and 64G of eMMC. While the processor is 64 bits, the UEFI is for 32 bits only, so no easy way to install a 64 bit Linux distribution on it. First step was to go into the UEFI setup to disable the secure boot, then...
I tried Ubuntu 15.10 32 bits, and the installer don't even boot from a USB memory.
I tried Debian 8.2 32 bits, the installer booted from the USB memory up to the selection menu, but whenever I chose the text or graphic installer, the screen go black with flashing small white lines across the screen, a bit like a old CRT that lost the synchronization.
I tried the last daily Debian installer without more success.
So no chance for me. The workaround was to install Debian 8.2 32 bits inside VirtualBox on top of Windows 10.
My conclusion is that very cheap notebook are designed for 32 bits Windows 10 only and that nothing is tested to allow installing a Linux distribution.

Re:A experience with a cheap notebook

[KGIII]

You'll want an image file that's compiled to work with the Atom, I am pretty sure. ISTR they call *some* variants "linuxium" and that should get you started in a search engine. You probably won't find the short-term builds, compiling everything is a long process, but the LTS is likely an option.

Re:A experience with a cheap notebook

[jcdr]

I tested kernel up to 4.2 with earlyprintk=efi and everything is ok up to the point where the console take over the earlyprintk. Seem to be something wrong at setting the screen, but nomodeset i915.modeset=0 don't help.

Re:Great article summary

[unixisc]

In which case, one might as well get a Raspberry Pi or Arduino, and install Linux on it, and run

Dunno about "recommend" but...

[davidwr]

... there are a couple of under-$10 computers out there that fit on my desk.

One isn't available yet and the other was available briefly but it sold out within $24 hours. Accessories^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSome essential items not included.

Re:Ubuntu performed poorly

[present_arms]

Or get a chimpbox instead http://chimpbox.us/

Re:Ubuntu performed poorly

[chipschap]

I have Linux Mint 17 running on a MUCH lower spec 6 year old Acer Netbook, 2GB of RAM. It's hardly a screamer, but I can get work done, stream video, etc. So I can't understand why your system doesn't do better.

Re:Raspberry Pi ZERO

[argee]

The Pi Zero has Zero network connectivity. No ethernet, no WiFi. Single USB port. By the time you take care of that, you exceed the cost of the Pi2. Just get a Pi2 and avoid the Zero.

Lintel apps not on ARM

[unixisc]

The first 2 are pretty much dead, and replaced by FireFox/Seamonkey. Similarly, for the third, Libre-Office is the successor and its source is very much out there. Not sure about Cedega. As for Java, doesn't Linux already have Java support one way or another w/o Oracle having to add anything?

Do you need an Intel/AMD processor?

[nickovs]

How about nVidia's Jetson TK1 board? It has a great 192-core Kepler GPU, a nice quad-core ARM CPU, on-board gigabit ethernet, all the ports you're likely to need and comes pre-installed with Ubuntu Linux.

Re:Do you need an Intel/AMD processor?

[nickovs]

Note that you can get the whole kit for $99 using discount code from Make Magazine.

Re:Do you need an Intel/AMD processor?

[deppman]

How about nVidia's Jetson TK1 board? It has a great 192-core Kepler GPU, a nice quad-core ARM CPU, on-board gigabit ethernet, all the ports you're likely to need and comes pre-installed with Ubuntu Linux.

I have one, and it is a great little Linux box for the most part. The x86 compatibility issue pops-up every once in a while, and 2GB RAM is a little tight, but after that it's all roses. Thanks to Raspberry Pie, ARM support for Linux is surprisingly complete, and the Tegra K1 graphics vastly outperformed the GPU on any Intel CPU that cost less than the entire JetsonTK1 board. Video cam, Google Hangouts, LibreOffice, Gimp, Inkscape, Java, Webstorm, etc. all work very nicely. My son uses it for his development computer, and it is attached to a 240GB SSD and a 32" 1920x1200 monitor. Libreoffice launches in 2s cold.

Re:What do you plan to do?

[avandesande]

Or maybe just a computer on a stick

Re:Great article summary

[tigersha]

Linux? On an Arduino?

Do that and I will se your face on the Turing Award website.

Re:Great article summary

[goarilla]

Enough people run raspbian on their Raspberry Pi's.

Re:Great article summary

[random coward]

Okay, now put his face on the Turing Award website

Depends on your Goals, But Free, or Negative

[brian.stinar]

The design consideration you mentioned was "cheap." If you have any other design considerations, then disregard this answer.

I come across tons and tons of old, crappy, free, computers constantly. The ONE entity I do actual system administration work for pays me to sanitize, and dispose of, their old systems. These systems effectively have a negative cost for me, since I'm getting paid to dispose of them. Mostly, I like to write software, and not do systems administration, but I don't mind being the (paid) IT person for my family's business.

If you are looking for inexpensive systems to install a low-footprint Linux distro on (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damn_Small_Linux) I think either "free", or possibly negative cost, is going to be the cheapest you can find.

This really depends on how much you value your time, and how much you want to experiment with Linux admin. I've found that hardware failure rates for junk hardware tend to be (surprisingly!) higher than brand new, under warranty, hardware. Which means you are trading your time in dealing with RAM failures, hard drive failures, and a general host of other annoying hardware issues (no drivers for ancient hardware..?) for a savings in money, and learning how to deal with those problems.

Re:Depends on your Goals, But Free, or Negative

[Blaskowicz]

I found old Pentium II/III hardware with Intel 440BX chipset to be reliable, typically comes with an ATI Rage Pro 8MB - works 2D-only these days, but it's nice to see a board without a heatsink on the graphics chip. It will never fail.
Of course you get the occasional power supply or hard drive failure but that's true for all hardware.

The funny part is, forget about Damn Small Linux and other survival-mode distros, do a command-line install of a recent ubuntu or debian and apt-get lxde, xorg, alsa, firefox etc.
Now you can browse slashdot just the same as on a new $1000 PC. Torrent recent xvid movies and play them full screen (1024x768 to 1280x1024 monitor), or listen to music in the background (audacious with winamp2 skin)

The only reason I have a much more capable PC is because I always leave firefox running with many tabs and I keep them among sessions. And a few other reasons.

Re:Depends on your Goals, But Free, or Negative

[brian.stinar]

Thanks, I haven't done a command line install in a long time, and that's a good suggestion. I normally disable all the 3D Unity stuff, but I don't normally install a different window manager.

Re:Ubuntu performed poorly

[Anonymous Coward]

And I have Xubuntu 14.04 running on (i) a six year old 2.8GHz Intel core 2 duo laptop with 4GB RAM and Nvidia Quadro FX 770, (ii) a seven year old 2.6GHz Intel core 2 quad with 8GB RAM and AMD graphics, (iii) an eight year old 2.4GHz Intel core 2 quad with 8GB RAM and AMD graphics. It is very fast, especially on the core 2 quad machines, one of which has an SSD. None of them have specs as good as GPs, but all of them are very fast.

Re:Great article summary

[T0min]

Linux? On an Arduino?

Linux on AVR has already been done. http://dangerousprototypes.com...

Then again there are Arduinos with ARM and x86 processors so porting Linux to them is not that big deal. But it is not and won't be a Linux desktop.

Oh!

[angel'o'sphere]

Is Linux finally ready for the desktop?
J/K

I still got some PII 450 Mhz

[Dareth]

I still got some PII 450 MHz out in the shed I think. Are you saying they aren't good to use as space heaters?

Re:I still got some PII 450 Mhz

[fraxinus-tree]

Inefficient even as a space heaters. A modern A/C unit has a COP between 5 and 6 (heat delivered divided by power consumed), collects less dust and is usually less noisy.

Re:I still got some PII 450 Mhz

[jones_supa]

Actually Pentium II does not produce much heat. I think it has a TDP of only 35W.

Re:Just buy a ChromeBox

[claude.j.greengrass8]

Celeron processor, 2 Gb Ram upgradable, 16Gb SSD upgradable. HDMI and DVI ports, Ethernet and Wifi, 4 USB ports, SD card reader all in a box that is Versi-Mountable. I use an Asus which costs $165 when I bought it a year ago and are now cheaper. Spend more and get an i3 or better processor.

Re:What do you plan to do?

[greenfruitsalad]

what parent said - use case is important. but be honest with yourself. a year ago, i spent a LOT of money on a dream desktop (think 64GB ram + 2x 8Gb FC + 2x 4port NICs + many fancy features). yet now i spend 95% of my computing time on a raspberry pi because all i really NEED are 4 terminal windows (music + IRC + xmpp client for nagios alerts + ssh to work on a server) and a web browser.

why don't i do it on my fancy desktop? because i don't want to feel like i'm murdering the planet for no reason. i have no guilty conscience when i forget to switch off my raspberry pi for a week and it honestly covers 95% of my use cases.

Re:Ubuntu performed poorly

[DuckDodgers]

I wonder what went wrong - I have roughly equivalent hardware and Ubuntu 14.04 ran just fine on it. I kept having problems with the screen locker, though, so I switched distributions.

Re:Ubuntu performed poorly

[Frederic54]

My Mint 17.2 XFCE is running quite well on my old netbook, Atom N270 (o/c to 2.0GHz), 3GB RAM and an Nvidia ION GPU, it can easily decode 1080p video using the GPU, even play some old 3D games. Coding/compiling small project is a breeze. Chrome+reddit+RES is somewhat slow sometimes.
I even installed Win10 build 1511 on a partition, and I am impressed it is this quite fast.

You can find this netbook for less than $100.

Re:What do you plan to do?

[DuckDodgers]

That's good bargain shopping there. But I suspect an even better option is looking for used computers on Craigslist, Ebay, etc... That same $120 might get you a Core i5 or AMD A10-6700 or something with 8GB of RAM and so forth. Just get a cheap SSD and reformat the original 1TB spinning platter drive to use as extra storage, and you're all set.

Re:Cheap Linux Desktop?

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

TempleOS sucks, get a Haiku OS desktop instead.

missing information

[bloodhawk]

Cheap is irrelevant if the machine can't meet the requirements it is built to perform. You may have spent way too much at $200 with a Pi or similar might have sufficed or simply wasted $200 as you really needed a $1000 workstation.

Re:What do you plan to do?

[Blaskowicz]

PC (x86) on a stick are way crippled : insufficient cooling (there is a really tiny fan! and what do you do when it's failing), slow and limited storage, and also weird UEFI / hard to install something because it's x86 tablet hardware.
So it's a waste unles that's really what you want. Or use some computer sticks as dumb terminals.

Even cheaper....

[Lumpy]

Used Core2Duo machine for $50.00 off of craigslist with monitor.

Sorry, but if you want a cheap linux machine, go used first.

nVidia ION

[rwa2]

Yep, I still have an old EeePC901 running Linux Mint from an SD card. It's connected to my kids' Casio digital piano, so it can record and playback using Rosegarden. It's a bit too sluggish for web browsing or other music software such as LMMS, but most else is fine.

My current server system is still a shoebox nVidia ION box with 4GB RAM and an SSD, which makes it snappy enough for web browsing with Chromium in addition to its server duties. I bought it from Craigslist a while ago to replace my tower, and it's much better with power usage for 24x7 operation. The last guy who had it was trying to turn it into a HTPC, but I guess that endeavor didn't go great.

I have a $85 HP Stream 7 running Windows 10... it's actually quite nice once you get a bluetooth keyboard and mouse for it (the touchscreen UI still has a poor adaptation for fingers compared to iOS and Android and is quite frustrating). I'm about to get a couple of those $35 Amazon Fire 7 tablets running Linux, and that's probably the best you can get for a cheap computer, provided you can get the Linux-Installer running on it. Some people have managed to boot it up with a non-Android distro, but the hardware support is still getting there... but the chroot Linux environments have tended to provide the best of both worlds, IMHO.

Re:Ubuntu performed poorly

[Blaskowicz]

It's called "A8-6410" but it's the low power chip (Atom competitor, with the Playstation 4's tech).

Perhaps it would run good with Wayland or MIR and an improved proprietary graphics driver.
Just run a 2D desktop instead of a 3D accelerated one and call it done.

Re:Great article summary

[Zero__Kelvin]

Egg on your face much?

Re:What do you plan to do?

[Areyoukiddingme]

i spent a LOT of money on a dream desktop (think 64GB ram + 2x 8Gb FC + 2x 4port NICs + many fancy features)

If you can afford to drop that much nosh on computer hardware, you can afford to buy four 300 watt solar panels, a Tesla Powerwall, and an inverter with which to run it.

Chrome box - has Linux drivers ...

[perpenso]

Get a cheap Chromebook or Chromebox, disable security and install Linux. Since its a chromebook/box Linux drivers should not be a problem. We've been successful with those for a few odd linux boxes that we needed at work.

If you want cheap ebay

[houghi]

http://www.ebay.com/sch/PC-Des...

Or ny other place yo by second hand stuff.

Cheaper ?

[terminal.dk]

Raspberry Pi Zero. $5 + some source of power + cables.

Re:Ubuntu performed poorly

[jones_supa]

Are you joking? A8-6410 should have plenty of power to run a full composited desktop.

Pentium G3258 Anniversary Edition

[kriston]

I can't say enough positive things about the Pentium G3258 Anniversary Edition. It regularly dips below $50 and motherboards are nearly as cheap. It has two cores that share a huge 3 MB of L3 cache and 1.5 MB of dedicated L2 cache per core. But, it does not have hyperthreading, but even in heavy workloads or multiple VMs, my observation is that hyperthreading is a paper tiger. I use these processors for both Linux and Windows workloads.

If you need graphic performance you should consider an external graphics card. This reduces the memory bus load. Any cheap "mid-range" graphics cards from three years ago are faster than any of today's built-in graphics.

Re:What do you plan to do?

[kriston]

Yes, aside from the Pentium G3258 Anniversary Edition that regularly dips below $50 USD, the 64-bit AMD Sempron and the AMD APU processors and their absurdly low-priced motherboards are also a great deal.

Here, in my home lab, I also experiment with several AMD APU processors, like the A6-3670. Don't disregard the very affordable AMD A6, A8, and A10 "APU" processor solutions. They have very high cache and multiple cores. If you don't require high-performance graphics, these are ideal.

If you do require high-performance graphics, any three-year-old "midrange" graphics card added onto these systems will suit the bill.

Re:look at the used computer market

[toddestan]

That's my thought. Depending on what you want to do, you could likely get away just fine with a free or very cheap used computer. Pretty much anything made in the last 10 years will run a Linux desktop just fine, and depending on what it is you could even go older.

You can get a few for that price

[MoarSauce123]

Get the Pi 2 or the CHIP with accessories, way cheaper and plenty powerful for plain simple desktop use. Aside from that, any AMD based system will be less expensive than an Intel based system. Intel is overpriced for low end systems.