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Microsoft Windows Server 2016 Moving To Per-Core Licensing (arstechnica.com)

rbrandis writes: Windows Server 2012 has two main editions, Standard and Datacenter. They had identical features, and differed only in terms of the number of virtual operating system instances they supported. The licenses for both editions were sold in two-socket units; one license was needed for each pair of sockets a system contained.

Windows Server 2016 reinstates the functional differences between Standard and Datacenter editions. Datacenter will include additional storage replication capabilities, a new network stack with richer virtualization options, and shielded virtual machines that protect the content of a virtual machine from the administrator of the host operating system. These features won't be found in the Standard edition.

Windows Server 2016 licensing moves to a per core model. Instead of 2012's two socket license pack, 2016 will use a 2-core pack, with the license cost of each 2016 pack being 1/8th the price of the corresponding 2 socket pack for 2012. Each system running Windows Server 2016 must have a minimum of 8 cores (4 packs) per processor, and a minimum of 16 cores (8 packs) per system.

43 of 288 comments (clear)

  1. It's almost like a fetish by ZorinLynx · · Score: 4, Funny

    Microsoft seems to have a fetish for making licensing complicated.

    I suppose since they practically invented the concept it makes sense. But damn, how far can it go?

    1. Re:It's almost like a fetish by BarbaraHudson · · Score: 4, Informative

      Microsoft seems to have a fetish for making licensing complicated.

      I suppose since they practically invented the concept it makes sense. But damn, how far can it go?

      They didn't invent the concept. They're just following in the footsteps of Oracle, IBM, etc.

      --
      "Transparent" is a shit show that trades on every stereotype going. A man in drag is NOT a transsexual.
    2. Re:It's almost like a fetish by smittyoneeach · · Score: 4, Funny

      Jeff Bezos is all: "Hey. You. Get off of my cloud."

      --
      Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
    3. Re:It's almost like a fetish by fuzzyfuzzyfungus · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Microsoft was knee-high to a grasshopper and might not have even yet been in the business of selling word processors to Mac users and a cheapo 'disk operating system' for 8086s back wehn IBM was already making licensing complicated.

      They've certainly grown up since then, though.

      I have no doubt that they'll make this change confusing, just because they always do, but the move from per-socket to per-core seems like it should come as basically no surprise from MS, or anyone else selling software whose scale is limited primarily by the power of the underlying system, rather than 'per user' or 'per seat': The number of cores, and amount of supported RAM, per socket has just skyrocketed lately, even for comparatively modest sums of money, while the sheer board complexity and need for fancy high-speed interconnect has kept socket counts relatively flat(the plummeting costs of computer equipment in general means that team supercomputer-with-custom-interconnect-fabric is still buying more sockets than ever; but among cost-sensitive customers I wouldn't be at all surprised if 8-socket systems are getting hammered, and 4 sockets dead in the water or even declining, as the number of cores you can cram into 1 or 2 socket systems increases).

      On the minus side, this can't be good news for AMD: their per-core performance is lagging; but they have some parts that are kept somewhere in the running because they offer a lot of (fairly slow) cores, and support a lot of RAM, for a relatively low price(it's not terribly glamorous; but there are applications where you have a zillion lightweight http server tasks, or need a big huge memcached server for cheap and single threaded performance matters less than price). If MS is licensing per-core, without any modifiers for the power of the cores, that is going to put a great deal of emphasis on high per-core performance in any environment that tithes to Redmond. In their ideal world, they'd obviously just have a more competitive design; but AMD can't be happy that MS isn't 'weighting' cores for licensing purposes.

    4. Re:It's almost like a fetish by techno-vampire · · Score: 3, Funny

      You must have a very, very strange Dominatrix. The word you use is the feminine form of Dominator, and I'd expect that the correct response would be, "Yes, Mistress," unless you wanted to give her an excuse to punish you.

      --
      Good, inexpensive web hosting
    5. Re:It's almost like a fetish by mlts · · Score: 4, Informative

      Here is the ironic thing. IBM with POWER7 has two modes for their chips. One is the usual functionality, where a 32 core CPU uses all 32 cores. The second mode, called TurboCore, disables half the cores... but allows the cores that are working to use the cache of their disabled neighbors, as well as run the CPU at a higher clock rate.

      The reason for this mode is because Oracle, Sybase, et. al., all have per core licensing for production systems. So, having the ability to turn off a good amount of cores will cut the fee in half, and that licensing fee can be very substantial.

      One advantage of Microsoft was that they licensed per CPU socket. Now, in Windows Server 2016, that changes... and I'm not surprised it did, just because of the amount of cores available on Xeons and AMD CPU chips.

      Maybe this is a good thing. Customers will demand that Intel and AMD start having more oomph per core than just adding more cores to the die. This will help a lot in tasks that can't be multithreaded (fast fourier transforms if doing video, for example.) Maybe we will see the IBM TurboCore mode (not to be confused with AMD's TurboCore) used in the amd64 architecture.

    6. Re:It's almost like a fetish by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Licensing per core is stupid, and frankly it should be illegal.

      Why illegal? There is already licensing per user. So why not per core? Why not per watt?

      There is an alternative - use a competitor that uses a more palatable licensing scheme.

    7. Re:It's almost like a fetish by jaa101 · · Score: 2

      Customers will demand that Intel and AMD start having more oomph per core than just adding more cores to the die.

      Intel and AMD would love to be able to do that. We haven't been stalled under 4GHz for years for marketing reasons; it's just not possible with current technology and sane power dissipation.

      This will help a lot in tasks that can't be multithreaded (fast fourier transforms if doing video, for example.)

      For video work its usually possible to parallelise by just having each core work on its own frame. Anyway, there seems to be plenty of literature on multithreaded FFT algorithms.

    8. Re:It's almost like a fetish by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2

      There were no multi-core x86 processors when 3.1 was a thing.

    9. Re:It's almost like a fetish by hughbar · · Score: 3, Informative

      Absolutely. I'm in my 60's now, and remember that IBM had a grip on the mainframe market renting expensive extra memory for each bit of bloated software (sound familiar?). All the manufacturers were mutually incompatible too until Amdahl and the plug-compatibles arrived, this and the IBM anti-trust finished the game.

      Second, (I believe) they invented functional pricing, something that was enthusiastically adopted by ICL (the British manufacturer), a 300 line per minute printer is the same hardware-wise as a 600 lpm, except for one resistor (say) and the rental price.

      So Gates had some good teachers, as do Apple (incompatibility and difficulty of repair, but oh-so-shiny), Android (what use are 'apps', except for customer/data capture?) etc. etc. Linux, BSD are pieces of serious 'liberation', it would be well to appreciate that. Happy whatever.

      --
      On y va, qui mal y pense!
    10. Re:It's almost like a fetish by Rockoon · · Score: 4, Informative

      This will help a lot in tasks that can't be multithreaded (fast fourier transforms if doing video, for example.)

      There have been parallel FFT's algorithms for years that scale fairly well, especially for multi-dimensional data (3D transforms get an almost a linear scaling with core count.) What the hell are you talking about?

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    11. Re:It's almost like a fetish by war4peace · · Score: 2

      What's next, different cost based on the amount of RAM installed?

      This already exists. Some MS Operating Systems artificially support limited amounts of memory.

      --
      ...gis sdrawkcab (usually not responding to ACs; don't bother posting as AC)
  2. Cores? Packs? Sockets? by Walter+White · · Score: 2

    What do these mean?

    1. Re:Cores? Packs? Sockets? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      They mean you should run your infrastructure and business-critical services on Linux or BSD so that Microsoft can't hold your entire company hostage at will.

    2. Re:Cores? Packs? Sockets? by unixisc · · Score: 2

      They mean you should run your infrastructure and business-critical services on Linux or BSD so that Microsoft can't hold your entire company hostage at will.

      I fully second this. While I've had my reservations about the redistribution rights automatically granted to FOSS, one thing that's always rubbed me the wrong way is an ISV either restricting the customer in terms of the number of installations, pretending that the software is a book, or dinging the customer higher if the customer has more processing power.

      With these sort of trends, I do hope that people migrate to Linux or the BSDs so that they can get as powerful hardware as they can afford w/o having to worry about paying thru the nose for additional OS licenses.

    3. Re:Cores? Packs? Sockets? by armanox · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Agreed. Linux used to be simple. It used to be stable. It used to 'just work.' Now, I no longer tell people to use Linux. I tell them to buy something - Windows if they need something basic, or buy a real UNIX if they need it (nothing against the *BSDs, but software/driver support isn't there right now). My home servers are running Solaris and IRIX, because they both work (and I have the SPARC/MIPS hardware) without issues. Systemd wishes it could be launchd or SMF, but it's not. PulseAudio took years to stabilize, while Solaris 10 ran fine for me with OSS. And for the business world, while I like supporting Open Source projects (I've donated time, money, and code in the past), having things actually work is far more important.

      --
      I'm starting to think GNU is the problem with "GNU/Linux" these days.
  3. Lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    My company moved from Windows to Linux. How many cores is that, Redmond?

  4. Any real tangible merits to using Windows Server? by bogaboga · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Can someone tell me what exactly I am missing by [stubbornly] refusing to use Windows Server? I know there surely exist some advantages but what are they really?

    I have been using Debian Linux on our servers for almost 13 years now and we have no regrets! We have Samba installed as well.

    I sincerely do not know what I am missing as our systems have not given us any trouble for a long time.

    I must say we have some company contracted for support just in case. Who will bite?

    You may wonder what then keeps me busy: Well, We experiment a lot and contribute to quashing Debian specific bugs from time to time.

  5. Re:So I Have To Have A Dual Socket Server? by randm.ca · · Score: 3, Funny

    Don't be silly, of course MS won't require you to have a dual socket server just to run Windows Server 2016. They're only going to make you pay as if you have one!

  6. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    Can someone tell me what exactly I am missing by [stubbornly] refusing to use Windows Server? I know there surely exist some advantages but what are they really?

    I recommend reading the Ars Technica link to the story in the summary, as there are a huge number of sys admins who explain why Win Server is used so much in enterprise Long story short - Microsoft knows what corporations want and makes it dead easy to do things that scale from a small business to a huge multinational. Whether it's through tech such as Group Policy, Active Directory or Exchange, it's stood the test of time in terms of large administration of servers. It integrates so damn nicely as well. I'd go on but again, the Ars link has comments which explain this much better than I could.

  7. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by hodet · · Score: 2

    Active Directory and Exchange are reasons given by many enterprises. I am sure there are other decent options but that and a place to point your finger if things go wrong. If you are a PHB, perhaps a kickback or two.

  8. Re:So I Have To Have A Dual Socket Server? by zenlessyank · · Score: 2

    Actually, I just need that new shiny 8 core Xeon. All is well. I hope Fallout 4 likes 16 threads because I can't be the only person using Windows Server for their desktop OS. 2008r2 is showing its age on this Athlon X3 chip.

  9. Not surprising by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    As someone who is peripherally involved with MS data centers I can tell you that the whole Azure/cloud thing is booming like mad. It's insane.

    They literally cannot build data centers fast enough so what they're doing is buying and/or leasing buildings, gutting them, rebuilding them and hardening them to keep up with demand. And they're still not keeping up, there's a huge pent up backlog of demand and capacity that is growing like crazy. They literally can't keep up with the need for secured server space that meets their requirements.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  10. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

    I know there surely exist some advantages but what are they really?

    Lack of SystemD isn't advantage enough?

  11. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by Opportunist · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Well, nobody is going to invite you to a holiday resort and play golf with you if you use Linux servers. Though I'm not sure whether Red Hat has caught on by now.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  12. Vendor lock-in is the only explanation by Jeremi · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you're a sane businessperson, you make sure your server software is easily portable to any OS, so that when a particular vendor tries to hike their licensing fees, you can just say "thanks, no thanks" and move your software to some other platform as necessary.

    Or, if you're completely blinkered and naive, maybe you've decided to irrevocably tie yourself and your company to a single vendor's platform, so that they can now do whatever they want to you and your only choice is to either pay up or rewrite your software from scratch.

    If you find yourself paying lots of money to run your software on an OS named for and designed around its GUI interface --- in order to run your software on a headless server in the cloud -- you might be in the latter category.

    --


    I don't care if it's 90,000 hectares. That lake was not my doing.
  13. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

    This reads like marketing copy.

    OP asked for technical details. You provided words that belong on glossy pages printed for C-level management.

    One thing's for sure, though. Microsoft software "integrates so damn nicely" only with Microsoft software. ;)

  14. and as you realize web apps need security by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Another change there is how companies are viewing web servers and applications. Previously a company already had Windows admins and Windows programmers supporting their Windows desktops. When they needed a web application they had their Windows admins connect a box to the internet, and their Windows desktop programmers put together an application. Microsoft made it fairly easy for people accustomed to writing desktop guis to put their code on the web. That all made perfect sense.

    What some are starting to realize is that your web applications will be attacked about a dozen times per hour. The Windows desktop devs are a accustomed to writing software that doesn't often crash -on accident- ; their mindset just doesn't consider that people would be attacking their applications -on purpose-.

    With the realization that you really shouldn't have your desktop support team configuring and running public servers, and that the guy who knows how to write an Excel macro has no business coding a publicly accessible web application, the idea of "we already have Windows people" goes out the window. You realise you need a team people who are qualified to design and maintain internet based applications and systems. As long as you have a separate team on a separate network, you may as well use a network OS well-suited to the task. Have your desktop support team know desktops, with a desktop OS, and your network team know a network OS.

    1. Re:and as you realize web apps need security by Required+Snark · · Score: 2
      Do you actually think that any organization gives a shit about security? Once a week there is a data breach that shows that upper management cares more about having nice business cards then any security. Security is a cost. It never contributes to the bottom line. Since it isn't profitable this quarter it is never a useful expenditure.

      Even after getting burned the corporate attitude doesn't change. Is Sony a three time looser, or a four time looser or a five time looser? I forget. After the PlayStation network got hacked, they still were completely clueless for the Sony Pictures hack. I bet that there are still other divisions at Sony that will get hacked. Or have been hacked and it hasn't come to light yet.

      Or the Office of Personal Management hack. That was far worse then the Snowden data dump. There are now intelligence cadres in the People's Republic of China who know more about US intelligence operations then almost any one in the US. In the US, all this was completely compartmentalized, because it was too sensitive. Now the cat is out of the bag.

      They know the real names, backgrounds, and organizational positions of everyone who ever got a clearance in the US. That is a complete roadmap of the organizational structure and personal of the entire US industrial-government complex, along with a lot of info about the military, since so many military go directly into classified civilian positions.

      That is far more valuable then the meta data and recordings of every phone call made on the entire planet. The NSA compulsion to spy on every human on earth is a horrific mistake. There is too much data to be useful, and all the effort spent on this takes away from the effort to actually find out what the opposition is actually doing. Knowing when and how long you spent talking to you're cousin in Kansas City has absolutely nothing to do with ISIS, or what the heck the Russians or Iran is doing. It's just cruft in the data base.

      So telling people that security counts is like saying that Santa is real, except it actively makes things worse. If security counted then things would be really different then they are right now. Suck it up and face the truth. Security is so close to non-existence that it's almost extinct.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
  15. AMD "modules" by tepples · · Score: 4, Informative

    Cores: the number of compute cores available. I think this is pretty clear.

    Not on AMD it isn't. The cores of its processors since Bulldozer are sort of a hybrid between actual cores and SMT thread states.

    1. Re:AMD "modules" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      I was thinking the same thing. This scheme appears to favour Intel CPUs where you get say 8 real, fully independent cores that might also have hyperthreading on top, over AMD CPUs where you get 8 "almost" cores but pairs of them share many resources, and no hyperthreading on top.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  16. Re:Why...???? by Dan+Ost · · Score: 2

    Exchange and the surrounding ecosystem.

    --

    *sigh* back to work...
  17. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by Zero__Kelvin · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "Microsoft knows what corporations want and makes it dead easy to do things that scale from a small business to a huge multinational."

    That is a ridiculous claim. I have extensive experience with Linux and Microsoft, and claiming that Microsoft makes things easier is just plain ridiculous. It is the kind of claim that could only be made by a person who has Microsoft experience, but none with Linux (or at least significantly less).

    --
    Guns don't kill people; Physics kills people! - John Lithgow as Dick Solomon on Third Rock From The Sun
  18. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

    According to my coworkers, the last time they were invited to a Microsoft conference was in Hawaii ten years ago. Prior to that they attended three or four conferences per year. Looks like Microsoft caught on to Red Hat by not offering that perk.

  19. Tthat's starting to change. $100B spent on securit by raymorris · · Score: 2

    > There are now intelligence cadres in the People's Republic of China who know more about US intelligence operations then almost any one in the US.

    You're not wrong there.

    The attitude you describe in US companies and general organizations is changing, though not fast enough. Information security is one of the fastest growing fields in the world.
    Research firm Gartner projects that the world will spend $101 billion on information security in 2018.

    A report by Visiongain, a business intelligence firm in London, indicates that the global cyber security market was worth $75.4 billion in 2015.

    I pay attention to this stuff because I've been doing information security for a living for 15 years. Some of the money companies and businesses are starting to invest in improving their security posture is my pay check, so it matters very much to me.

  20. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by Jjeff1 · · Score: 2

    Not just AD, but group policy, which is a decent GUI that lets you install software and push settings down to computers, users and groups. When you need to modify security settings on 5000 PCs it's pretty painless to do so. Er, most of the time

  21. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by mlts · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I think "making things easier" is being mixed up with "easier to find MS experience than Linux experience."

    The problem I encounter, having sat in both worlds, is that each side thinks their stuff is the right hammer, and everything is a nail. The MS guys want to use their wrench as a screwdriver, while the Linux guys want to carve notches in bolts so they can use their screwdriver in place of a wrench.

    A couple use cases: Spawning Hadoop instances on OpenStack [1] or AWS is a lot easier with Linux than Windows. It can be done with Windows, but it is a lot easier to find howto guides and such under Linux. Another case is popping up nginx web servers on compute nodes for static content behind a load balancer. That is pretty easy with ansible [2], lsync, and varnish. In Windows, it can be done, but it would require some fancy footwork with SCCM/SCOM/WIM.

    On the opposite side, for a massive directory service (something spanning multiple geographical regions, with many employees and company division/org charts that look like spaghetti), AD has a lot more support than the various LDAP platforms [3], and has proven to be good enough, security-wise.

    Best thing to do is use both. Windows winds up at the core, Linux/BSD/etc. are at the edge.

    [1]: Windows and OpenStack are like oil and water. I've not heard of any OpenStack deployments based on Hyper-V, especially on Kilo and Liberty. I wouldn't be surprised to see it (as Microsoft has embraced Docker in a useful fashion), but not at this stage.

    [2]: Ansible is easy to include in the VM image, so it either can have an image pushed to it, or it can hit a Git server, grab its playbooks, then run those.

    [3]: I've used other directory services. I would say that AD is a lot less painful than AFS or DFS/DCE. Things can change on a dime, and an AD competitor that can scale and replicate can come out of nowhere, similar to how Ansible/Puppet/Chef/Salt wasn't on anyone's radar a few years ago, but now is a staple of IT/DevOps as of now.

  22. Re:So I Have To Have A Dual Socket Server? by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

    That is not recommended. The quantum for the threading is set for server loads at the expense of faster performance with fewer threads. Server is tuned to running many many loads over faster smaller loads.

    I see no reason to run server at all for a home OS. I use VMware and Hyper-V which is free with the pro version of Windows 8.1 to learn server, Linux, and pfSense FreeBSD routers, and run lamp stack appliances if I need something heavy duty. It is 2015 and not 2000 where you load everything you possibly need and configure one box for the master of all. Virtualization is even free if you want to download virtualbox to run server operating systems.

  23. Microsoft moving to per-core licensing .. by nickweller · · Score: 2

    "Microsoft Windows Server 2016 Moving To Per-Core Licensing"

    Because Microsoft has decided that people who update their own hardware must pay Microsoft for the privilege.

    "Windows Server 2012 has two main editions, Standard and Datacenter" and the only diffence between them is a registry hack.

  24. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by Cyberax · · Score: 2

    Right now? Not much.

    About 15 years ago, Windows was the only way to run a decent file and printserver. It was also much better documented and had better performance tools than contemporary Linux servers.

    Right now all these advantages faded - printing is easily done by standalone networked printers, fileservers are not nearly as ubiquitous as before and Linux is way faster. However, Windows is still useful in a number of cases: as an ActiveDirectory host, as a platform to run SQL Server and for Exchange installations. But that's a narrow niche, really.

  25. Re:Any real tangible merits to using Windows Serve by Cederic · · Score: 2

    When your company has 2200 server applications from 200 different vendors, inevitably some of those are going to be "Windows only".

    Add in AD, Exchange and the relatively cheap licenses for SQL Server (compared to DB2 or Oracle, or fuck it, even the third party support overheads for the open source stuff) and the relative ease of acquiring Windows admins, it's a pretty straightforward decision to make Windows Server one of your core supported platforms.

    Along with and (sadly at the last four companies I've worked for) a bloody expensive computer from IBM.

  26. Technical solutions to price fixing? by unixisc · · Score: 4, Insightful

    More oomph per core also violates a major requirement of all post 2000 CPUs - that they conserve power. In the days before multicores, you had CPUs trying out various combinations of superscaling and superpipelining in order to maximize performance. A major reason being that OSs at the time had limited multi-processing capabilities, and even when they did, their software didn't.

    Things changed once NT came around, and since NT could do SMP, Intel could boost performances by tossing a number of their top core CPUs into the mix, and NT, being SMP like Unix, could handle that. So now Intel had a new more scalable way to boost performance, as well as segment the market instead of sinking w/ the Itanic. They could offer dual or quad core for PCs, while offering their 8-32 cores for servers.

    The GP's description was good, but the problem w/ that approach is that it's a technical solution to an artificial problem - that of hiking prices by changing the pricing model. Unlike technical solutions to issues such as power consumption or limited performance, this is not something that the technologists should be solving. The proper solution to Oracle, Sybase and the other enterprise software companies jacking up prices is to explore more FOSS solutions, such as ProgreSQL or NoSQL. And when Microsoft does this, explore the BSDs or Linux.

  27. Re:Three original Stones still in the Stones by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

    Of the four present members of The Rolling Stones, three (Mick Jagger, Keith Richards, and Charlie Watts) were with the band since the beginning.

    Yes, but at least one of them, Keith Richards, is dead. The others might be too, but Keith definitely is. He's still able to tour and perform just fine despite this.