DHS Deployed Plane Above San Bernardino To Scoop Up All Phone Calls After Attack (dailymail.co.uk)

schwit1 writes: Federal investigators looking into the San Bernardino massacre deployed a spy plane overhead after the attacks in an apparent attempt to find additional suspects. The Department of Homeland Security is said to have put up the single engine craft over the California city and ordered it to make repeated circles overhead. The craft would likely have been equipped with Dirtbox technology which can scan tens of thousands of phones in one go to identify suspects. The report adds to the intrigue about whether or not there were accomplices in the San Bernardino attacks, which took place last Wednesday and were the worst terrorist attack on American soil since 9/11.

Comments

During or immediately after the attack

[Kohath]

Searching to see if there are more terrorists engaged in a coordinated attack? Seems like a reasonable and responsible thing to do.

Re:During or immediately after the attack

[Etcetera]

Searching to see if there are more terrorists engaged in a coordinated attack? Seems like a reasonable and responsible thing to do.

Yeah, the notion that this is a bad thing to do *during* an emergency is a bit hard to swallow. Exigent circumstances are when we want these dragnets used.

We can talk about pre-scanning metadata and background spying etc all we want, but in an active emergency I want those tools available If something wasn't justified. Feel free to sue after the fact.

Re:During or immediately after the attack

[TheReaperD]

I don't mind they used it on that day; where there's a real threat with a possible follow-up. My problem is what they do with tools like this the other 364 days a year. If anyone believes that this sits in a hangar waiting to be available during an emergency, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.

Re: During or immediately after the attack

[zippthorne]

The lockdown didn't seem to hamper his movement at all, so I'd guess the risk was the same either way. They would've found him sooner, though, as people would've been at the marina sooner and noticed something was amiss sooner, so in that sense the risk would've been less, as he would've spent less time not in custody.

Re:During or immediately after the attack

[Etcetera]

I don't mind they used it on that day; where there's a real threat with a possible follow-up. My problem is what they do with tools like this the other 364 days a year. If anyone believes that this sits in a hangar waiting to be available during an emergency, I have a bridge for sale in Brooklyn.

Well, that's the point. Ensure there are proper safeguards. Five directors, and a Deputy Assistant at the FBI or something. Hell, require five keys or the President to sign off.

We have nuclear weapons and have managed to not fire them off even though the power is there. A secure system can be built ensure it only happens when authorized by those who bear political responsibility for their use.

Re:During or immediately after the attack

[niftymitch]

Searching to see if there are more terrorists engaged in a coordinated attack? Seems like a reasonable and responsible thing to do.

Reasonable in this context, sure.
Now that the data has been collected what else might they do with it?

The unreasonable process of parallel reconstruction wins convictions and
is so effective in scoring wins in court such that prosecutors and persecutors
alike want access to the data. Juries expect a case to be airtight today
because of the theater of TV crime fighting. The reality is that a total
parallel reconstruction of fiction will appear more airtight and more convincing
than the truth which depends on facts.

Recently a local city was pondering the right of an officer to review all
body and vehicle camera footage before they submit their action report.
This was the union demanding it of the city.. Where is the union elected
by the citizenship to demand closed door considerations...
Does their report process also extend to phone metadata as well?

I would note that the review of video evidence is not extended to the defendant. Any
discrepancy is held up as a lie in court and in the media to the disadvantage of the
defendant.

In this case deploying an aircraft to slurp up conversations and other
metadata makes a lot of sense on the surface. Further an aircraft may well
allow improved communications so authorities can communicate with the public should
terrorists attack cell service. Oh wait that is not part of the tool....

Such tools are very much double edge knives. Why is it that double edge
knives are so illegal?

Today such tools are an omission under the law and the secrecy surrounding them
sheds fruit from the poison tree to to a degree that some will regret.

Re:During or immediately after the attack

[niftymitch]

The big question is did they follow procedure?

....snip.....

It is important to rewrite this to "The big question is did they follow a legal procedure?".

I read too often that the department reviewed the incident and has ruled
the official acted as per departmental policy. No one addresses the legality
of departmental policy.

Consider asset forfeiture related policies. If the policy is in effect
see valuables especially cash, grab it, do not provide a receipt with the
exact sum. Do not bring the individual up on charges, do this for the
poor or out of town visitors.

Consider policies in a training academy that that teach an officer to
fire his weapon in concert with other officers to ensure fatalities. Such policies
have evolved for many reasons one is to eliminate expensive hospital and life long care to the
wounded and maimed. Death benefits are less expensive and the one
witness that knows the truth is dead.

Departmental review is not a legal action. It is law outside of the law and
is fundamentally as illegal as the mafia boss sending his minions out to
execute the competition for his illegal actions.

Re: During or immediately after the attack

[tompaulco]

Does this involve white terrorists, like the one in Colorado, as well? Or is this one of those rules we apply to people whose beliefs or skin-color are outside of the norm?

It appears that it is applied when some of the suspects got away from the scene of the crime.

Re: During or immediately after the attack

[tompaulco]

The lockdown didn't seem to hamper his movement at all, so I'd guess the risk was the same either way. They would've found him sooner, though, as people would've been at the marina sooner and noticed something was amiss sooner, so in that sense the risk would've been less, as he would've spent less time not in custody.

Those pesky criminals. It's bad enough they break the felony laws, but then they go and break the lockdown laws and the "no guns" laws too.

Re: During or immediately after the attack

[l0n3s0m3phr34k]

The idea behind such a lockdown isn't to hamper the target's movements; it's to get everyone off the streets so the only ones left moving around are law enforcement or the "target". The whole thing could have been avoided by the FBI actually using the intel Russia had given us; but if we had done that there wouldn't have been any bombing nor the fear that followed.

Re:That's the solution!

[ganjadude]

I wonder if this acknowledgement would be enough to bring just cause to court (being that in the past the argument was people didnt know whether or not their calls were sucked up in the dragnet or not)

in other words, could someone who lives under where there plane was flying sue the court for unreasonable search and seizure?

N404KR

[sillivalley]

Look at the track for N404KR on that day (2015/12/02) -- it spent hours circling over the area. It's a Cessna 182T, so a smaller payload capability, but slower with more loiter time over a tighter area.

And it's registered out of a P.O. box in Virginia, along with many similar companies and aircraft.

Nothing suspicious here, move along citizen...

Re:worst terrorist attack since when?

[Kohath]

Race-divider squad activate! Set grievance-politics field to "social unrest"! Aim sites on people getting along! And ... Go!

Was Sandy Hook really not terrorism?

[damn_registrars]

A lot of terror was brought to the society, a lot of innocent people were killed. Just because the shooter wasn't an Islamic radical doesn't mean it wasn't terrorism; a lot of people place the federal building attack in Oklahoma City under the label "domestic terrorism", there is a strong argument for placing Sandy Hook in the same category.

Re:Was Sandy Hook really not terrorism?

[phantomfive]

A lot of terror was brought to the society, a lot of innocent people were killed. Just because the shooter wasn't an Islamic radical doesn't mean it wasn't terrorism;

Terrorism: the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.

It can't just be "something that scares people" otherwise lightning and thunder would be terrorism. The Sandy Hook shooter was crazy, he didn't seem to have any political motive as far as anyone can tell. Oklahoma City might be called terrorism, since it had a political goal (and indeed, McVeigh even feels his goals were somewhat achieved), but McVeigh wasn't trying to scare or kill average people. He later said he wished he had done targeted assassinations instead of a mass bombing, since it would have avoided needless casualties. So OK city is kind of in a grey area.

I don't know why I am discussing this, an argument about a definition of a word is kind of silly thing to do, but oh well.

Surprised the acted this fast

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Surprised a government agency acted this fast. But still there is no need to reveal to the terrorists all the tools we have at out disposal.

Re:Surprised the acted this fast

[birukun]

They did not 'act so fast' if they were already in the air, in an area close by...........

Meaning, they don't sit around waiting, they are already scooping up calls all the time.

There is probably cause

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

I think there is enough justification and probably cause to collect such information. It is no different than setting up a cordon and road blocks and stopping all motorists in the vicinity.

Re: can't wait for the duplicity...

[Kohath]

Does the smoke affect your neighbor in any way?

He says it slows down his WiFi and gives his goldfish panic attacks.