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For a Missouri Cassette Tape Factory, Obsolesence is Just a 12-Letter Word (arstechnica.com)

The Missouri-based National Audio Company, reports Ars Technica, is sweeping up in a category that our future-looking selves might twenty years ago have imagined would be dead and buried in the year 2015: making and selling audiocassettes. There are fewer and fewer competitors in the tape-making business, but NAC still has a healthy market for cassettes -- in October, the company noted "a 31 percent increase in order volume over the previous year." From the article: [Company president Steve Stepp] said that as his competitors began bailing out of the cassette business once CDs came to prominence, NAC started buying up their machinery. “It would have been incredibly expensive 30 to 35 years ago when [cassette manufacturing machines] were new on the market, but when our competitors bailed out of the business and started making CDs, we went round the country and bought [them] out," he said. Some artists are still releasing music on tape, but about 70 percent of what the company sells is blank cassettes; there are an awful lot of tape decks out there; my father alone still buys a few hundred blanks each year.

169 comments

  1. Really? by ledow · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Ob so le se nc e is Just a 12-Letter Word"

    Really?

    1. Re:Really? by rockout · · Score: 5, Informative

      How great is it that they spelled it wrong but got the letter count of the correct spelling?

      --
      I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    2. Re:Really? by lucm · · Score: 3, Funny

      Christmas miracle!

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    3. Re:Really? by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      Christmas miracle!

      And for the rest of us:
      A Festivus phenomenon!

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    4. Re:Really? by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 2

      "I got a lot of problems with you ferric oxide folks; and you're going to hear about it!"

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    5. Re:Really? by MacDork · · Score: 2

      ca-se-et-te-ta-pe

      12 letters :)

    6. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, if there was any doubt left, it is quite clear all the smart people have left "SlackjawDotDuh" and we only have, well... this left. Fairly funny as it is.

      So that the Slackjaws do not feel too bad, it's happened at Ars Technica too. The low-IQ crowd took over there as well. Oh well, nothing lasts forever. Maybe all the really smart people are simply leaving the internet? Huh.

    7. Re:Really? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Some of us still celebrate Hogswatch.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    8. Re: Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it's a Festivus miracle. Not sure why you think it's "phenomenon".

    9. Re:Really? by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      OK, does that stand for "Hogs Watch" or "Hog Swatch"?
      I don't mine watching for Hogs, but I don't want to see any swatches...

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    10. Re:Really? by dryeo · · Score: 1

      Hogs watch of course. From back in the time when a hog would be sacrificed in celebration of the solstice and everyone wanting a good bacon breakfast as well as pork pies.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    11. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ca-se-et-te-ta-pe

      12 letters :)

      Did you maybe mean ca-sS-et-te-ta-pe ?

    12. Re:Really? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Ob so le se nc e is Just a 12-Letter Word"

      Really?

      OMG Only thing I could even focus on about the article. Pure genius!

  2. The best by rockout · · Score: 5, Interesting

    I loved buying Maxell XL-IIS blanks. That being said, I can't see buying and making tapes today. It'd be like buying an old Polaroid camera... oh wait I did that

    --
    I've learned that they're worthless, so I don't read AC comments anymore.
    1. Re:The best by beltsbear · · Score: 2

      They were good tapes. Made from a good record and with Dolby C (not B!) they sounded pretty good. They were NOT as good as vinyl of course and the quality of a mass produced audio cassette is so bad it is hard to listen to. I assume that factory does not make tape as good as a Maxell XL-IIS.

    2. Re:The best by BitterOak · · Score: 2

      I loved buying Maxell XL-IIS blanks. That being said, I can't see buying and making tapes today. It'd be like buying an old Polaroid camera... oh wait I did that

      I used to buy Maxell XL-IIS as well. I still have a couple of boxes of blanks. I haven't recorded a cassette since I got my first CD burner back in 1999.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
  3. Uh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    For a Computer News Website, Spelling Is Just an Eight Letter Word

  4. Very few mediums die completely by Viol8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Obviously there are exceptions like wax cylinders and stone tablets, but in general if a medium is cheap and/or does a job thats not easily or cheaply replicated elsewhere it'll stick around. As soon as the Next Thing comes along certain people always predict the demise of that which its superceding. Cassette was supposed to kill vinyl. It didn't. Ditto CDs, they didn't. MP3s were supposed to kill CDs and cassettes. They didn't. Streaming - we are told - is the end of downloads. Yeah, right. DVD killed VHS? No it didn't - not until set top box recorders came along to fill in that functionality. Automatic gearboxes were the death knell of manual transmissions. Oh really? Now driverless cars will be the end of human driven cars. No, don't think so.

    Anyone who predicts the end of anything without waiting a few decades is an idiot.

    1. Re:Very few mediums die completely by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      CDs killed vinyl just as surely as digital has killed CDs. That a few holdouts still use them does not make them any less dead as a mainstream medium. You can still ride a horse if you like, and once a year a significant number of people even watch a horse race. That does not mean that the automobile did not kill the horse.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    2. Re:Very few mediums die completely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      CDs are digital. What do you mean?

    3. Re:Very few mediums die completely by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Downloads/streaming as opposed to physical media.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    4. Re:Very few mediums die completely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually even stone tablets are still in use and even produced: statue names, memorials, grave stones, street names signs, milestones, border stones.

    5. Re:Very few mediums die completely by lucm · · Score: 2

      the automobile did not kill the horse.

      Automobiles don't kill horses. People with automobiles kill horses.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    6. Re:Very few mediums die completely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Then why not just say that?

    7. Re:Very few mediums die completely by Dogtanian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      I think he knows what you mean, he's just making a point about the irritating habit of using "digital" as a synonym for downloads and streaming and- even more irritatingly- implying that CDs and DVDs somehow aren't "digital". (Compact Discs were originally marketed using the fact they were digital- it was arguably the biggest selling point, and is even included in the bloody logo!).

      I've commented before that I'd expect this kind of annoying use of language in the mainstream press but that you'd expect better from Slashdot which is- or was- a site for genuine geeks interested in the underlying science and technology and not just the superficial "boys toys" aspects (#), but apparently not.

      (#) It's my belief that despite the fact people are apparently *much* more tech-savvy than they were even 15 years ago, people's understanding of (and interest in) the underlying fundamentals- such as what "digital" actually means- isn't actually that much better when it comes down to it. Yeah, every man and his dog is obsessed with his smartphone in a way that only marginalised geeks were with technology back in the day- but while they know how to use the Android interface, do they actually understand even at a basic level how the underlying technology (e.g. the Internet and computers) work? They know how many gigabytes is a decent amount for what they want to use, but do they understand what a gigabyte- or rather a byte- actually is? I suspect most people don't. Anyway, as I said, I expect that from the mainstream media, I expect better from Slashdot contributors... except I don't any more. :-(

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    8. Re:Very few mediums die completely by TWX · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Obviously there are exceptions like wax cylinders and stone tablets, but in general if a medium is cheap and/or does a job thats not easily or cheaply replicated elsewhere it'll stick around. As soon as the Next Thing comes along certain people always predict the demise of that which its superceding. Cassette was supposed to kill vinyl. It didn't. Ditto CDs, they didn't. MP3s were supposed to kill CDs and cassettes. They didn't. Streaming - we are told - is the end of downloads. Yeah, right. DVD killed VHS? No it didn't - not until set top box recorders came along to fill in that functionality. Automatic gearboxes were the death knell of manual transmissions. Oh really? Now driverless cars will be the end of human driven cars. No, don't think so.

      Anyone who predicts the end of anything without waiting a few decades is an idiot.

      On the other hand, the drop in volume can be measured, and eventually the drop in volume reaches a point where the only customers left are niche customers, and sometimes there aren't enough niche customers to justify production anymore.

      I have a fairly large LaserDisc collection. There were machines to record LaserDisc, but they were very limited in number. No one produces blanks for them anymore just as no one produces titles on LaserDisc anymore. There had been "Selectavision", an RCA system for movies that played on a vinyl disc. No more of those either. 8-track also appears to be completely out of production even though it had achieved fairly significant market penetration, to the point it was common in automobiles and home stereos in the seventies and touching the eighties.

      This particular factory, if they play their cards right, can be the niche manufacturer for a whole bunch of media as the big players get out. They have to be careful and pick-and-choose what's worth trying to keep up with, but if they choose wisely they can continue to be the source for blanks and possibly even factory-mastered media for some time after the big players stop. If they choose poorly though, that could just knock them out.

      --
      Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
    9. Re:Very few mediums die completely by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Interesting

      They company still makes DAT tape. I still record digital audio to tape as my old sony pocket DAT recorder still kicks the crap out of any other portable recording system out there. and the DAT drive I have hanging off of a SCSI->USB reads in the digital audio to the PC just beautifully.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    10. Re:Very few mediums die completely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes audiocassettes so unusable is the same thing that keeps them alive: they're not random access and they're not easy to digitize, so people keep old tapes around until they find time to listen through them or throw them out. What I don't get is how anyone can still use cassettes or CDs/DVDs for recording.

    11. Re:Very few mediums die completely by porges · · Score: 1

      I'm also starting to see "streaming" where "downloading" would be correct, as in buying music from iTunes.

    12. Re:Very few mediums die completely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      'Obviously there are exceptions like wax cylinders and stone tablets...'
      Stone tablets are still common in graveyards and for monuments.

    13. Re: Very few mediums die completely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      GUI makes teh stupid. We need one generation of people raised on smartphones with command-line-only interfaces.

    14. Re:Very few mediums die completely by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      CDs killed vinyl just as surely as digital has killed CDs. That a few holdouts still use them does not make them any less dead as a mainstream medium. You can still ride a horse if you like, and once a year a significant number of people even watch a horse race. That does not mean that the automobile did not kill the horse.

      There is a lot of self righteous Nerdiness that will lambast this comment. Whatever confusion this poster might have regarding Analog vs. Digital, I'm more worried about the extinction of horses, how cars have been killing them, and how riding a horse and watching a horse is a good analogy for digital to analog. If the horse has a bowel movement is that a core dump? -- and If I don't watch it, will I have a checksum error? The mind boggles.

      I don't have the Geek cred of many here, but I still do learn a lot even while I see more jokes and errors than before. Slashdot changes, and we embrace the buggy whip again, because it's very Steam Punk.

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    15. Re:Very few mediums die completely by Vitriol+Angst · · Score: 1

      Streaming is dolling out compressed data (usually video or audio) at a rate that the connection and underlying network can consistently deliver, although congestion can cause momentary reductions. So you watch the video, without downloading everything. Downloading requires the entire file, and the data rate fluctuates but can move faster than the guaranteed average data rate that streaming uses -- and it can usually pass more data, especially with a congested connection.

      iTunes can allow you to stream music WHILE you are downloading it. So you are left with a complete file -- not a cache of a segment of it. A lot of streaming services don't allow you to save the file and I'm guessing they hash or destroy the cache, which you'll notice when you skip to a prior moment of the stream and you have to wait for it to download enough to buffer, which is the caching of enough data to play at the current guaranteed bandwidth (I'm pretty sure the other term for this QOS; Quality Of Service).

      This new Slashdot crowd is making feel a lot smarter than the old Slashdot crowd.

      And in case people are missing what "DAT" files means; Digital Audio Tape. it's using a magnetic tape to store Digital Information and was orginally intended as a new audio standard, didn't catch on, and became a way to back up computer files (usually SLOWLY). It's like people thinking that HDMI has higher resolution than the 15 pin RGB cables or DVI. I'm at a loss for any real comparison other HDMI was intended to create a standard AND include DRM (seems they abandoned this because people could just use a TOR for the video and audio and like DRM on a DVD, it just added more costs and support headaches) -- there is likely an upper bandwidth, but I'm not sure what that would be for any of them. Even Vinyl or Cassette Tapes, which are analog, can be used to store digital information -- you just have to encode it a different way, with more checksums and smaller chunks likely, and it isn't as efficient (but it was cheaper). I remember when DAT was expensive, I spent $300 to get a 40 meg external SCSI hard drive and the major investment where I worked was a device that could make a CD-ROM to be used as a master for duplication.

      Oh what was I talking about? Get off my lawn!

      --
      >>"ad space available -- low rates!!!"
    16. Re:Very few mediums die completely by CauseBy · · Score: 1

      We don't use them very often, but we do still make stone tablets in the form of headstones and the occasional monument.

    17. Re:Very few mediums die completely by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      It was a slip-up on my part. While I think the context makes it very clear, I didn't mind clarifying.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    18. Re:Very few mediums die completely by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      If I'd bothered to proofread, I probably would have. Reading back, I think the context still makes it obvious. But hey, we're all clear now, right? No harm, no foul.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    19. Re:Very few mediums die completely by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (#) It's my belief that despite the fact people are apparently *much* more tech-savvy than they were even 15 years ago, people's understanding of (and interest in) the underlying fundamentals- such as what "digital" actually means- isn't actually that much better when it comes down to it. Yeah, every man and his dog is obsessed with his smartphone in a way that only marginalised geeks were with technology back in the day- but while they know how to use the Android interface, do they actually understand even at a basic level how the underlying technology (e.g. the Internet and computers) work? They know how many gigabytes is a decent amount for what they want to use, but do they understand what a gigabyte- or rather a byte- actually is? I suspect most people don't. Anyway, as I said, I expect that from the mainstream media, I expect better from Slashdot contributors... except I don't any more. :-(

      There was a study done recently that showed exactly this. Despite the fact that the average 10year old is very familiar with the interface of an iphone, fewer kids actually understand how computers work today than they did 20 years ago.

  5. Only for weirdos and 4x4s by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    Only weirdos continue to make magtapes in the age of the mp3. Audio magtapes have shit quality (at least, typical audiocassette tape does) and degrade over time, and they break. The ONLY reason AT ALL that they still exist is for 4x4s. A cheap mp3 player often doesn't remember your song position. A cheap tape deck is even cheaper, if you don't cheat and just install an el cheapo amp with an mp3 player directly connected to it.

    I went for mp3 in my 4x4 :p

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Rednecks have 4x4s, hipsters buy audio tapes. They don't really overlap but neither are good people.

    2. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Audio magtapes have shit quality

      um, no?

    3. Re: Only for weirdos and 4x4s by TheReaperD · · Score: 1

      There's always someone that invested in a technology and refuses to invest in a new one. My mom still goes to thrift stores and buys VHS tapes and now has a huge library of them. Trying to find her a replacement VHS/DVD player this year was a challenge, teaching her how to use the new one, even more so. I've managed to sell my dad on digital movies and once he got over the learning curve, he now prefers it to DVDs. But, my mom, you'll have to pry the VHS player out of her cold dead fingers.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    4. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Rednecks have 4x4s, hipsters buy audio tapes. They don't really overlap but neither are good people.

      There's plenty of Rednecks and hipsters that aren't hurting anyone. If I wanted to be a hipster and have a tape habit I could do it with literally zero environmental impact because you can pick tape equipment up from thrift stores all the time. In fact, I do have one tape deck, but it's just a small portable unit with a speaker and a remote port to which I can connect my TI. I guess owning one of those is kind of hipster. I would sell it if it were worth anything.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    5. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      Audio magtapes have shit quality

      um, no?

      Sorry, couldn't hear you over the hissssssssssssssssss

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    6. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound like an utter tool.

    7. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A few hundred blanks each year? What is he doing with that many? Smoking them?

    8. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Sorry, couldn't hear you over the hissssssssssssssssss

      And we still have vinyl records, as some people seem to think they are the shitz. And tube amplifiers.

      I'm surprised that there aren't people who try to claim the superiority of 78 RPM records, especially the old phenolic ones with the cardbard innards.

      Myself, I only listen to original Edison Wax Cylinders, as they have the timeless purity of sound coupled with the enigmatic energy of original recording efforts.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    9. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      And we still have vinyl records, as some people seem to think they are the shitz. And tube amplifiers.

      Well, at least vinyl still does something that even CDs can't. Of course, it also does lots of undesirable stuff that CDs don't, as you say. But it arguably has reasons to continue to exist... at least it's better in some way. Audio cassette tape just blows. Big fancy magtape can kick the crap out of a CD, but it doesn't fit in your pocket.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    10. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is a TI?? Texas Instruments??

    11. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by tompaulco · · Score: 1

      Only weirdos continue to make magtapes in the age of the mp3. Audio magtapes have shit quality (at least, typical audiocassette tape does) and degrade over time, and they break.

      Yes, why use an analog media with those qualities, when a digital media with the exact same qualities can be had?

      --
      If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
    12. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by sumdumass · · Score: 1

      Use some rubbing alcohol and a qtip and clean the tape head. That or check for a bad capacitor and change as necessary.

      Hissing is a sign of badly maintained or failing equipment. True that digital "can" carry better quality. But i doubt high fidelity is what the modern usages of cassette tapes is about.

    13. Re: Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is nothing that vinyl does that CD:s cannot also do.

    14. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by lgw · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, at least vinyl still does something that even CDs can't

      Make hipsters happy? It has no audio advantage, to be sure.

      Big fancy magtape can kick the crap out of a CD,

      Make audiophiles happy? Make your cables danceable?

      The only limitation of CDs (if you include CD-Rs etc) is that they only contain enough information to match perfect human hearing, so you might want more bits for the mastering process, where some information loss is inevitable. But for consumer use, just playing the music, CDs are right.

      The only example that makes sense is a tube amp, which distorts sound in a way many people find pleasing.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    15. Re: Only for weirdos and 4x4s by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

      it's like a DVR for old people.

      --
      My God, it's Full of Source!
      OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    16. Re: Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You gotta listen to some Bone Records. Xray film reused to record and then playback audio. With a little help from a cigarette to create the center hole.
      https://x-rayaudio.squarespace.com/xraybootlegs/
      Talk about obsolescence. Xrays are digital now too.

    17. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Lumpy · · Score: 4, Funny

      Except Hipsters have a buttload more money than the rednecks... and they pay very well for someone to restore that 1965 motorcycle for them and add a beard holder.

      I love hipsters, they actually pay their bills.

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    18. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Lumpy · · Score: 2

      "Big fancy magtape can kick the crap out of a CD, but it doesn't fit in your pocket."

      http://www.amazon.com/Sony-PCM...

      Fits in my pocket and blows CD's out of the water hard. What are you one of those skinny jeans freaks that cant even put quarters in your pockets?

      --
      Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
    19. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by fhage · · Score: 1

      Use some rubbing alcohol and a qtip and clean the tape head. That or check for a bad capacitor and change as necessary.

      Hissing is a sign of badly maintained or failing equipment. True that digital "can" carry better quality. But i doubt high fidelity is what the modern usages of cassette tapes is about.

      We used to preset the volume level by listening for the hiss from the magnetic tape when it hits the heads after the non magnetic leader.

      Most commercial tapes did not use high quality, high bias tape or Dolby NR, so every album on cassette was just a terrible hiss fest. You had to record albums yourself on good tape with NR if you wanted to avoid the hiss.

      If you didn't remove hairs and lint from the capstan, clean the rollers and tape guides every 10 to 20 operating hours and demagnetize the heads every year your tapes would sound like shit and the players would "eat" your tapes. The tape would often stick in the mechanism and start folding, accordion style.

      It was common for car players to eject the cassette with the tape still stuck inside.

      I recall hearing; "Dude, I'm totally bummed. My car ate my favorite album on the way over".

    20. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      Myself, I only listen to original Edison Wax Cylinders, as they have the timeless purity of sound coupled with the enigmatic energy of original recording efforts.

      Bah. That is lame compared to the purity of sound in having an actual full symphony orchestra to accompany you everywhere to satisfy one's assorted musical needs.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    21. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      Actually "Perfect" human hearing is about 8000 to 10000 Hz better than ANY normal digital media can handle. CD bandwidth was chosen so:
      1. a full LP could get on it
      2. average human hearing (anybody can hear 20000 Hz)
      3. we don't need all that bass below 20 Hz

      CD's did for High Fidelity what Microsoft did for computing: made average shit the standard.
       

    22. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by karnal · · Score: 1

      TI99/4a

      --
      Karnal
    23. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What is a TI?? Texas Instruments??

      An early computer, from the 1980's.

    24. Re: Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is nothing that vinyl does that CD:s cannot also do.

      DJ scratching? That can be simulated on a sensor platter, and maybe someone could make an open-faced CD player (lands & pits side down!), and perhaps buffer enough to simulate scratching, relative to the output of motion sensors that track the DJ's fingers...? ; )

    25. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      Bah. That is lame compared to the purity of sound in having an actual full symphony orchestra to accompany you everywhere to satisfy one's assorted musical needs.

      As soon as I read that, I thought of these:

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Family guy Stweie following fat guys with a tuba. No commentary on yourself, just true live music!

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    26. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      No problem. I bring that one up a lot myself since I saw that one for the first time not too long ago.

      In fact, I have said many times recently that with the way the holidays are going, next year I will most likely have someone following me around with a tuba.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    27. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Audio cassette tape just blows.

      Not always. Even commercial albums you could buy at your local record store were recorded on low-grade ferric oxide tape (Type I, Fe2O3, light brown in color). While nearly all were recorded with Dolby-B noise reduction, most players didn't support it on playback. Even still, Dolby-B provides only a slight reduction in tape hiss and crushes the high end. Dolby-C, on the other hand, was really incredible. With most music you couldn't hear the hiss except between songs. Dolby-S was reported to be even better, but personally I never got a chance to use it.

      In the early 90s if you were using a $200 dedicated tape deck with Chrome or Metal tapes, Dolby-C noise reduction, and set your recording levels properly, you could produce recordings that sounded excellent and in some cases indistinguishable from CDs. But most people's idea of home taping was buying a 3 pack of generic blank tapes from K-mart for $3 dollars and trying to record a song from CD on their grandmothers bookshelf stereo. In that scenario, audio cassettes did blow.

    28. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      And we still have vinyl records, as some people seem to think they are the shitz. And tube amplifiers.

      Well, at least vinyl still does something that even CDs can't. Of course, it also does lots of undesirable stuff that CDs don't, as you say. But it arguably has reasons to continue to exist... at least it's better in some way. Audio cassette tape just blows. Big fancy magtape can kick the crap out of a CD, but it doesn't fit in your pocket.

      Vinyl and tubes have a certain sound quality to them. And I really can't disparge one of the other if someone likes them better. The problem of vinyl to me is the downhill they go on after they are first played. Diamond on plastic can't be eliminated over time.

      Now tubes - there is something interesting. They have an inherent distortion to them that is actually pleasing to many people's ears. I also have a sort of attraction to hollow state technology myself. But its still a distortion.

      Tape, especially the little cassettes - which were designed for voice only, yet forced into music use is annoying as hell to me - at decent quality levels, you need a reel to reel running at a decent speed - yuck.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    29. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But for consumer use, just playing the music, CDs are right.

      CD's have one stupid issue that annoys me to no end. They use a 44100 Hz sample rate. 44100 is a stupid, terrible, difficult number that is a hold-over from the limitations of VHS recorders in the early 1980's.

      For the love of all that is good and holy, use 48kHz. DO IT OR I WILL DESTROY EVERYTHING YOU KNOW AND LOVE.

    30. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Theory vs practice. In theory vinyl if worse than CD, but in practice it is often better. Due to the loudness war CDs are often poorly mastered, being extremely distorted and overly compressed. Due to the limitations of the medium vinyl can't be that compressed or distorted, so the sound engineer is forced to master the audio properly. Thus, the vinyl release often does sound better.

      Of course, DVD audio I'd even better because it must adhere to Dolby mastering standards, which don't allow much distortion or compression.

      Vinyl isn't just got hipsters, fans of bands wanting the best recording possible often seek it out. They look for older CDs from the 80s too, which predate the start of the loudness war.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    31. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Fits in my pocket and blows CD's out of the water hard.

      They're spendy and repairs are spendy and they're not making more of them.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    32. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Of course, DVD audio I'd even better because it must adhere to Dolby mastering standards, which don't allow much distortion or compression.

      Not if you just use PCM audio. Then it won't have compression artifacts, but it may well be compressed in the other sense of the word... and you're not responsible to Dolby

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    33. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      In the early 90s if you were using a $200 dedicated tape deck with Chrome or Metal tapes, Dolby-C noise reduction, and set your recording levels properly, you could produce recordings that sounded excellent and in some cases indistinguishable from CDs.

      But that's an extreme corner case. Most people's equipment didn't approach that, and even with metal tapes the quality just wasn't that hot.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    34. Re: Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know a lot of rednecks who have a LOT of money.

    35. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except Hipsters have a buttload more money than the rednecks... and they pay very well for someone to restore that 1965 motorcycle for them and add a beard holder.

      I love hipsters, they actually pay their bills.

      Once they stop paying their bills, they're just another druggie.

    36. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have a car old enough to have BOTH cassette and CD players in the stereo (the radio sounds good, too, given a good station). A well-recorded cassette with Dolby B sounds as good in the car as a CD, and is much less affected by bumps and turns. Notice "well-recorded" which usually means I did it myself on a decent deck from decent (sometimes digital/CD) source material. And "in the car" is important - the ambient noise prohibits a true hi-fi experience but the sound can still be pretty good. Oh yes, the cassette can run for 90 minutes (with auto-reverse), while the CD tops out at 80 and even then only if burned on just the right drive and with just the right software. I do not have a boom car, and did not spend more on the sound system than the car cost, and I'm old enough that my ears aren't all that great any more (too many Harley pass-bys). But I still know and appreciate decent sound.

    37. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which universe does this come from? Vinyl is analog, so it's not encoded in any way which has some advantages, but is *is* compressed to keep the music audibly above the fairly high (usually around -60db with rare exceptions that might reach -70, and much worse after a couple of plays). PCM or DSD digital at CD quality or higher is potentially (depending on production choices) just as good or better in sound quality, much more accurately captures the master recording, and MUCH better in its ABILITY to minimize compression (whether or not that ability is used is a production choice, not a characteristic of the medium) due to a low noise floor, compared to vinyl. And some DVD audio encodings are in fact quite compressed. But digital sound is always encoded, which works against longevity - how likely is it that something like SACD will still be playable in 50 years like old 78s or early LPs are, even assuming the discs haven't degraded in storage too much to be physically read? Also, the loudness wars are independent of medium, and were around well before digital (check out 45rpm rock singles some time) - digital editing and processing has just made it possible to make things as loud as they can possibly be. The media that're correct for the time will be used, but only a few will remain around and usable indefinitely.

    38. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Jack+Griffin · · Score: 1

      The only example that makes sense is a tube amp, which distorts sound in a way many people find pleasing.

      I'm not even sure if this is true any more. Digital modelling Amps can pretty much do the same thing these days.

    39. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Agripa · · Score: 1

      Only weirdos continue to make magtapes in the age of the mp3. Audio magtapes have shit quality (at least, typical audiocassette tape does) and degrade over time, and they break. The ONLY reason AT ALL that they still exist is for 4x4s. A cheap mp3 player often doesn't remember your song position. A cheap tape deck is even cheaper, if you don't cheat and just install an el cheapo amp with an mp3 player directly connected to it.

      What I fine funny about this is that I have old 256 kbit/sec MP3s encoded by LAME which were made from cassette tape which was used to transfer the audio from the sound board to the computer. These MP3s and the original cassette tapes sound a hell of a lot better than much modern music simply because they are not dynamically compressed all to hell. Experimentation at the time showed that 256 kbits/sec was necessary for transparent MP3s.

    40. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Experimentation at the time showed that 256 kbits/sec was necessary for transparent MP3s.

      There are plenty of cases where MP3 totally shits the bed even at 320kbps. I have this one Moroder track (one of the remixes on the single for The Chase) that I mp3'd at that rate, in which you can still perceptibly tell the difference in certain parts of the song. The result is literally painful at "high" (though not excessive) volume, at least to me. In most music you will never notice at these bitrates, but for the electronic stuff, it can be really bad. It's almost not worth listening to anything electronic and complex in mp3.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    41. Re:Only for weirdos and 4x4s by Agripa · · Score: 1

      There are plenty of cases where MP3 totally shits the bed even at 320kbps.

      This is why I included saying that I used LAME for the encoding.

      MP3 encoding was new at the time (and MP3 players were still over the horizon) but there were still several different encoders and all of them which I tested except LAME suffered from that high frequency and percussion reverberation malady. I ran my own A/B comparison tests between the digitized and cleaned source and the MP3 encode to find the point where I could no longer tell the difference between the LAME encode and the source, which was about 128 kilobits/sec, and then used a higher bit rate than that for margin. In practice that ended up being double the bit rate which still allowed enough compression to be worthwhile.

  6. they miss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    the hiss?

    1. Re:they miss by rudy_wayne · · Score: 1

      Audio cassettes, vinyl, video cassettes, Justin Bieber, rap . . . . . . . for whatever reason, there are a lot of people out there who are perfectly happy with low quality crap. Weird but true.

    2. Re:they miss by Midnight+Thunder · · Score: 1

      The chance of having to detangle the tape and using pencils to rewind.

      --
      Jumpstart the tartan drive.
  7. Sigh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I miss the days when I could save a program I wrote on cassette tape. Things were much simpler back then.

    1. Re:Sigh by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I used to have a tape deck for storage with a VIC 20 IIRC. (This was many years ago.) Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was the VIC 20. I seem to remember having spent some time (quite a few years back) scouring for a game called "FLOG" which is 'golf' spelled backwards. It was a pretty neat game or so my memory tells me. It was loaded from the cassettes that it came on - I didn't type or write it myself. I think the source, BASIC, was in the back of the manual.

      I just spent a few minutes looking, again, and still didn't find anything that is quite right but I opened up a dubious link that led me to this:
      http://www.flog-game.com/

      I didn't play it but the graphics are really bad looking and I don't have any real memories of the original game except that I liked it. (I drank, heavily, back then.)

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    2. Re:Sigh by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 2

      I had the tape deck for the Atari, and it was nothing but a trail of tears.

      Spend 30 minutes "loading" a program and when it was done...no program.

      Spend the same amount of time "saving" a program, and later find out it saved nothing. :(

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    3. Re:Sigh by sizzzzlerz · · Score: 2

      I remember, back at the dawn of the PC age, going into to my local computer software retailer and browsing the rack for games that were sold on cassettes that were packaged in plastic sandwich bags with a one page set of instructions printed with a dot matrix printer. I'd buy a few, take them home, put one into the cassette player whose audio output was connected to my Apple II+, and start the programming sequence. A few seconds later, the computer would beep and display an error message stating that it couldn't read the tape and to try again.

      I never did play those fucking games.

    4. Re:Sigh by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      I had the tape deck for the Atari, and it was nothing but a trail of tears.

      Yes. The tape interface on the Atari 400 and 800 and their descendants was particularly slow, even compared to the Spectrum and C64.

      I suspect that this is because- while it was ahead of its time enough that it could compete with later competitors like the C64- it came out in the late 70s when memory sizes were much smaller. The load speed wouldn't have been an issue given the small size of programs able to fit into the 8 KB of RAM they launched with. (Quite good for the time; the 400 was originally only intended to have 4 KB).

      Unfortunately, they didn't improve it on the later models, such as the 64 KB 800XL. I had an 800XL, and even programs designed to fit into 48 KB could easily take over 15 minutes to load! :-(

      I suspect they didn't upgrade it for the "XL" models because by that point the US market was becoming primarily disk-based. Unfortunately in Europe, tapes were still common until the 8-bit market died in the early 1990s. I had a disk drive with my 800XL, but lots of games were tape only. Uuuuurrrrrgh!!

      Eventually discovered a good program that was able to transfer most games to disk, but not before enduring years of PITA slow loading from tape, complete with "LOAD ERROR- TRY OTHER SIDE"!

      Not that this was a problem with cassettes themselves- as they were never originally designed for that- and I guess when disk drives were very expensive, they were the only way of cheaply storing data. But while I'll cut cassettes a lot of slack, I'll never get nostalgic for loading from tape.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
    5. Re:Sigh by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, they didn't improve it on the later models, such as the 64 KB 800XL. I had an 800XL, and even programs designed to fit into 48 KB could easily take over 15 minutes to load! :-(

      Oh yeah...start the tape, then wait, and wait, and wait...

      Did you ever have something called the "Happy Drive", a modified floppy drive that let you copy almost any copy-protected disk? Best investment I ever made for the Atari 800 that I had (I didn't have the XL version, just the regular "clunker" version).

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    6. Re:Sigh by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      I had a cassette recorder for the Commodore VIC-20 and 64 several years before I got the floppy drive. I had a huge number of cassettes for both programs and backups. One popular program in the various home computer magazines was a database to keep track of your programs on cassettes.

    7. Re:Sigh by KGIII · · Score: 1

      I don't recall ever owning an Atari other than the game system. By the way, I just noticed I never finished my draft. ;-) I'll get that finished when I kick the kids out for the day. The two and their mates are planning on heading out to engage in some familial fun so it will settle down again shortly.

      But no, no Atari that I personally owned. A few friends had them. I had some TRS-80 models, a few Apples, and some of the Commodore line throughout those years as I recall.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    8. Re:Sigh by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      By the way, I just noticed I never finished my draft. ;-) I'll get that finished when I kick the kids out for the day.

      No worries, whenever you get the time. It's been busy all over the last few days.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    9. Re:Sigh by Dogtanian · · Score: 1

      No, just a plain old 1050- I didn't have that much disposable income. It was still bloody good at the time, because Dixons (UK retail chain) had a bundle deal which included an 800XL and the 1050 drive for £120, less than the Spectrum (a generally inferior machine) was selling for on its own.

      'Course, by that point, the becoming-dated Spectrum was continuing to sell on the fact it had a *huge* established base of software, whereas the 800XL... didn't, so much.

      --
      "Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
  8. Nobody cares. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nobody is talking about the immediate death of all X, everywhere, instantaneously, forever.

    Excepting downloads (and nobody with any ounce of sense said streaming would replace anything - that the idiocy of the *IAAs would prevent that from ever happening is and long has been base knowledge)...

    All the shit you've listed is fucking over.

    Over like Spanish rule of the Americas. Over like the US Civil War. Over like Hitler's aspirations for a thousand year reich. Over like Linux's chances of ever breaching the desktop market.

    Sure, you can eat paella while bemoaning the Lost Cause of a racially pure computing environment where you can fuck about in Tux Racer. Go nuts.

    But that shit is over. The world, in general, has moved on.

    1. Re:Nobody cares. by lucm · · Score: 1, Funny

      Over like Spanish rule of the Americas.

      As demonstrated by the fact that people who speak Spanish feel at home from Buenos Aires to Denver

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    2. Re:Nobody cares. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By that argument Queen Elizabeth rules the world. Or maybe Linus Torvalds.

    3. Re:Nobody cares. by lucm · · Score: 1, Interesting

      By that argument Queen Elizabeth rules the world.

      You may not be aware of this, but every time you pay income tax in the USA the Queen gets a cut.

      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/...

      Look it up.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
  9. Re: Mozilla could learn from this example. by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

    Firefox 3.6 was painfully slow. The speed improvements from 4 onwards made it much more enjoyable to use until they started copying Chrome and doing other bone headed things.

  10. "still buys a few hundred blanks each year." by Nutria · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's more than the number of weekdays in the year. What the hell does he do with that many?

    --
    "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    1. Re:"still buys a few hundred blanks each year." by Solandri · · Score: 1

      Obviously he's a pirate. And the music industry will soon sue this company into oblivion for failing to cut off customers who are pirating. Because in the new reality they're trying to create, you are liable for what your customers do with your product.

    2. Re:"still buys a few hundred blanks each year." by Nutria · · Score: 4, Funny

      Because in the new reality they're trying to create, you are liable for what your customers do with your product.

      The RIAA/MPAA should sue the electric companies that supply the power to pirates. After all, those computers don't run on hamsters!!

      --
      "I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
    3. Re:"still buys a few hundred blanks each year." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      scale up the number of hamsters, and yes, computers could run on rodent power. http://www.otherpower.com/hams...

  11. Re:Mozilla could learn from this example. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Mozilla needs to take Firefox back to its roots.

    http://www.seamonkey-project.org/

  12. Re: Mozilla could learn from this example. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why are you repeating what the GP has already stated very clearly?

    A vintage Firefox 3.6 experience is what Firefox users want, but with better security, better performance and less memory usage.

  13. Burying the Lede by PopeRatzo · · Score: 2

    there are an awful lot of tape decks out there; my father alone still buys a few hundred blanks each year.

    Am I the only one who's dying to know what the author's father is doing with those hundreds of blank cassettes every year?

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Burying the Lede by PolygamousRanchKid+ · · Score: 1

      there are an awful lot of tape decks out there; my father alone still buys a few hundred blanks each year.

      Am I the only one who's dying to know what the author's father is doing with those hundreds of blank cassettes every year?

      Oh, that's easy to answer . . . porn!

      --
      Schroedinger's Brexit: The UK is both in and out of the EU at the same time!
    2. Re:Burying the Lede by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      there are an awful lot of tape decks out there; my father alone still buys a few hundred blanks each year.

      Am I the only one who's dying to know what the author's father is doing with those hundreds of blank cassettes every year?

      Probably backing off in the jack room?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    3. Re:Burying the Lede by magarity · · Score: 1

      Backing up his computer at 1.2 Mb/tape?

    4. Re:Burying the Lede by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The first thing I thought of was recording the weekly sermon at church, and making copies to distribute to elderly parishioners who aren't capable of attending services in person.

  14. Mix tapes or holdouts? by EdwardFurlong · · Score: 1

    I know the mix tape is still a thing if you are trying to impresses someone else's genitals. Or holdouts like my parents, their phone still has a cord and a wheel, the TV is made of wood, they would probably still get a block of ice delivered if that was an option. VHS still exists, poor man example of piracy? I still have books, does that make me a old fogey? Did you take ceramics in school? Why? Have you ever had to mine your own clay and bake it in a kiln in order to have something to eat off of?

    1. Re:Mix tapes or holdouts? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I know the mix tape is still a thing if you are trying to impresses someone else's genitals.

      Yes, the hubs leave a nice little star-shaped mark

  15. Why? by kimvette · · Score: 1

    I have a high end tape deck and a box of blank Type II and a number of blank Type IV cassettes but I haven't hooked up my tape deck to my new Elite AV receiver nor to my previous one. The last time I used it was around 2000 when I digitized a widow's late husband's demo tapes to clean up the audio and put it on CDs for her.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
  16. What's the point? by plazman30 · · Score: 1

    Who's buying these? The same crowd that thinks LPs offer a superior listening experience to digital? Sigh...

    1. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The room, the speakers and their placement completely dominate the listening experience. Most people simply can't afford the size and physicality required to listen to proper sound. Instead, they focus on trivialities.

    2. Re:What's the point? by rcase5 · · Score: 1

      Who's buying these? The same crowd that thinks LPs offer a superior listening experience to digital? Sigh...

      Umm...well, they do. Yes, you do tend to get some pops and clicks on vinyl, even with immaculate records. But you also hear things on vinyl that gets left out on digital media because the sampling rate isn't high enough. Also, most prominently used digital audio formats are lossy, which means some of the data gets lost as part of the compression process. This further compromises the listening experience with digital media. Then again, unless you have high end speakers, most people don't notice the missing parts of the music. But there is no better listening experience than vinyl with a good turntable and high-end speakers.

    3. Re:What's the point? by TeknoHog · · Score: 1

      The room, the speakers and their placement completely dominate the listening experience. Most people simply can't afford the size and physicality required to listen to proper sound. Instead, they focus on trivialities.

      Nothing wrong with that. I understand that many people get a kick out of owning and handling LP records, for example. There can be more to the listening experience than just sound quality. In addition, it's quite possible that some people prefer the extra analog distortions to cleaner digital recordings. It's their loss, not mine, if they're not interested in the music as it was originally played, or if they care more about the medium than the music itself.

      What bugs me in such discussions when these personal preferences are mixed with more objective quality metrics. "A better sound quality" could mean so many different things.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
    4. Re:What's the point? by lgw · · Score: 3, Interesting

      But you also hear things on vinyl that gets left out on digital media because the sampling rate isn't high enough.

      This is not only wrong, but provably wrong. That's the nice thing about math: actual proofs. After you've listened to a record a few times, you've degraded the audio quality through wear. Perhaps you like that sound better? Many people like the distortion of tube amps better.

      Also, most prominently used digital audio formats are lossy, which means some of the data gets lost as part of the compression process

      True enough. Low bitrate MP3s annoy me to no end, but they're still better than cassette tape.

      But there is no better listening experience than vinyl with a good turntable and high-end speakers.

      You forgot directional cables. Don't hook em up backwards: you need your cables to be danceable.

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    5. Re:What's the point? by zippthorne · · Score: 2

      No, you don't. Just because it's analog doesn't mean that it has infinite bandwidth, or even that the bandwidth it does have beats the bandwidth of the reconstructed signal that can be created from the sample rate a CD has.

      --
      Can you be Even More Awesome?!
    6. Re: What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Totally agree on the sound aspect.
      My minimalistic setup proves it to me every day.
      OTOH I miss handling CDs, the sound of the tray, even the sound of the lens driver.
      I kinda understand the vinyl guys. What I don't buy is the high end price for nothing empiric!

    7. Re:What's the point? by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      No you are wrong.
      And CDs are not a lossy format.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    8. Re:What's the point? by painandgreed · · Score: 1

      Who's buying these? The same crowd that thinks LPs offer a superior listening experience to digital? Sigh...

      From the sound of TFS, I'd guess that most are for making recordings, law offices, secretaries taking meeting notes, dictationists, etc. Could very well that there is some reason to keep using tape rather than digital. Besides that companies don't like to spend money to upgrade system just because, there could be legal reasons that would make digital records discoverable but not recorded tape.

    9. Re:What's the point? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As of 3 years ago, the UK police [url]http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-20556330[/url] still relied on cassettes to record interviews and statements. I'm not sure what the status is now but I doubt it's changed that much.

    10. Re:What's the point? by nitehawk214 · · Score: 1

      Let me guess, next you are going to tell us they sound better with your gold plated monster cables?

      --
      I'm a good cook. I'm a fantastic eater. - Steven Brust
    11. Re:What's the point? by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Although of negligible practical use, some vinyl reproduction systems are capable of playback to well beyond 30 kHz. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phonograph#Styluses_.28or_.22Styli.22.29

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    12. Re:What's the point? by Toshito · · Score: 1

      I'm with you with most of what you said except this:

      True enough. Low bitrate MP3s annoy me to no end, but they're still better than cassette tape.

      A good quality metal tape recorded with dolby C on a good quality tape deck is almost identical to the CD source. I'm quite sure that almost anyone could not tell the difference. I have 20 years old cassettes that I recorded myself that are still very good.

      You're probably talking about those cheap pre-recorded cassettes, most of mines are now unlistenable (lots of drop-out or hissing) and most where awful sounding even when new.

      Low bitrate MP3 (I'm talking about those 128kbps or less) is really really anoying, it kills the cymbals and any complicated passage. Personnaly above 192kpbs I can't tell the difference with the CD.

      --
      Try it! Library of Babel
    13. Re:What's the point? by lgw · · Score: 1

      A good quality metal tape recorded with dolby C on a good quality tape deck is almost identical to the CD source. I'm quite sure that almost anyone could not tell the difference

      Maybe I misunderstand "metal tape", but I used top-end consumer cassette tapes before CDs, and the difference was stark, because tapes wear and stretch. It also seemed that a tape recorded on one deck would never sound quite right played on another (which seemed to be exaggerated by Dolby C).

      CD is easy to get right. Maybe use a better DAC if you want to get fancy, but even an audiophile-quality DAC costs only ~$20 per channel for the components (likely marked up 10x-100x for that market).

      I've been fairly happy with high-bitrate MP3s as well. Is there any place you can buy them, though? I've been too lazy to rip my whole CD collection to quality MP3, and it's years past time to stop hauling CDs around!

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    14. Re:What's the point? by Toshito · · Score: 1

      http://www.hdtracks.com/

      Hi res, no DRM. You're welcome!

      --
      Try it! Library of Babel
  17. Re:Mozilla could learn from this example. by tompaulco · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Firefox can't update itself successfully. It updated on my machine this morning and afterwards, it wouldn't start because it had deleted it's own executable. Then I went to the Mozilla website and almost vomited from sheer ugly. Their website has little squares of different shapes and sizes everywhere (Like Windows Metro interface), and as such, presents information extremely both inefficiently and in a manner which is offensive to the eye. It was hard to find the download link amongst all of the other squares which did who knows what. I assume they were advertisements, but similar to the ACA, you can't tell what they do unless you click on them.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  18. Re:Star Wars: SJW Awakens by tompaulco · · Score: 0

    So, I don't get it: there is a son who turns to the Dark Side, lives on a Death Star, wears a black mask. And there is a rebel faction that wants to blow up the Death Star by targeting a specific area with X-Wing fighters. And there is a hero that uses the Force. So what is the difference in this movie versus the other one that came out 40 years ago? Is it a movie for the SJW crowd? The main character in the movie didn't look like she could beat up a kitten, but somehow defeated a Dark Lord one-on-one once she "discovered" the force 15 minutes previously. And this gets 98% on Rotten Tomatoes?

    Can't wait to see it for first matinee early showing prices on some weekday when nobody is at the theater.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  19. Alzheimer by lucm · · Score: 1

    The guy buys a blank tape every day, over and over, because he forgets he already done it. Terrific repeat customer.

    --
    lucm, indeed.
  20. Re:Mozilla could learn from this example. by sumdumass · · Score: 2

    That's not Firefox 's roots. Firefox originated as the stand alone browser without all the other crap. In its inception, it was separate from seamonkey or the Netscape stile internet suite.

    If he said back to its Netscape roots, you would be accurate. But since the entire concept of Firefox was a standalone browser , the association to seamonkey is a bit off.

  21. Haven't bought any in 20 years by tompaulco · · Score: 1

    I haven't bought in blank cassette tapes in 20 years, and I am not even part of the hipster mp3 crowd. I don't own any music on mp3 (very few people who have mp3s actually own it, but that is another tale for another day). I do have several hundred CDs.
    What got me wondering is that I have bought much more recently, backup drive tapes in different formats. That got me wondering if perhaps this company is doing a lot of volume in DAT, DLT or other formats, and maybe not so much in classic cassette tapes.

    --
    If you are not allowed to question your government then the government has answered your question.
  22. Blind folks still use cassette tape quite a lot. by Myself · · Score: 5, Interesting

    You can feel the weight balance to tell how much of the tape is on one reel versus the other. You can rewind and fastforward by gut-feeling, with no display. Every operation of the player is tactile, and there are no hidden options menus, touchscreens, or any of that crap.

  23. Re:Mozilla could learn from this example. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why the fuck do people suggest SeaMonkey when somebody says they want a "vintage Firefox experience"?! Early releases of Firefox were nothing like SeaMonkey. In fact, they were intentionally not like SeaMonkey! Firefox was created as a response to the bloat and unruly architecture of SeaMonkey (or Mozilla Suite, as it was known then). SeaMonkey embodies the Netscape Communicator mentality that Firefox strove to escape, at least during its early years, although Firefox has now come full-circle and adopted that same mentality with the inclusion of all sorts of unnecessary stuff, along with an unusable UI. So SeaMonkey is the complete opposite of what users asking for a "vintage Firefox experience" want! Only a dumbass would suggest it!

  24. Vacuum tubes rule!!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Don't you know that electrons flow differently through silicon compared to vacuum? Silicon is too cold and you can hear that. Just give me an old tube amp hooked up to an old AM tube radio and feel the warmth.........

  25. Back to the 80's by tonywestonuk · · Score: 1

    In the UK, as a kid I used to record the top 40 chart off radio 1 onto cassette. And then shove the tape in a walkman! That is 3 button presses - Record, rewind, play. Nothing comes close in convenience today. All they need to do is change the radio cassette player and walkman to record to tape using a 16 bit, 24khz digital recording format, and it would easily compete with CD/IPOD

    1. Re:Back to the 80's by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 1

      Nothing comes close in convenience today.

      I dunno... I've never had to disassemble a CD in an attempt to make it functional again.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:Back to the 80's by n3r0.m4dski11z · · Score: 1

      Do you really remember cassette tapes then? I remember them breaking frequently, getting unspooled, or warping so that parts of the tape were slooowwer than others. They were completely lossy with subsequent copies always losing something from the original. They needed to be copied in real time, unless you had one of those fancy stereos that copied tapes quickly. Forget what that was called and it wouldn't apply to recording things off the radio. Transmitting analog radio is a quality loss all by itself!

      That and you had to edit out commercials on mix tapes, and do all your cuts just right perfectly or their would be extra sounds that you didnt want. If you erased over teh same area too many times weird things would happen to the sound and the tape would degrade in that spot. Saying that dealing with all that is easier than editing using audacity, and listening using mp3s is laughably nostalgic.

      We used audio tapes becuase that was the best medium at the time, it was pretty simple for people to use and cheap. But there were so many downside to the process of using tapes that dwarf any benefit they had over mp3s. There is no benefit actually that I can think of. Name one.

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      -
    3. Re:Back to the 80's by twosat · · Score: 1

      Reminds me of this Youtube video with the same title https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    4. Re:Back to the 80's by thinsoldier · · Score: 1

      Um.... https://kat.cr/usearch/uk%20to... For me that's pretty damn convenient. Drop a .torrent file into a dropbox folder and within the hour all the mp3 files appear on all 10 of my phones/laptops/tablets.

  26. stone by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't know about wax, but for stone tablets see any cemetery...or look at a lot of the markers for house numbers in my neighborhood...many are stone tablets. They last a long time...odds are they will renumber the house before the tablet goes bad.

  27. We used cassettes for more than audio by Iconoc · · Score: 2

    We used cassette tapes for other purposes too... http://www.oldcomputers.net/hp... We'd save off a program to cassette for storage, and it usually worked the next time you tried to load the program. Follow the link and check out the three people in the picture, ready to get to work!

    The first time I found ample access to a computer (HP 9830A desktop calculator) was at Texas A&M in '76-'77. Its hard to believe that I spent entire nights from dusk to dawn in the math building on campus, learning BASIC, including a Star Trek game. There's no telling how much thermal paper I ran through the printer.

    1. Re:We used cassettes for more than audio by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      We'd save off a program to cassette for storage, and it usually worked the next time you tried to load the program.

      For very small values of "usually", in my experience. :(

      I can't even count how many times I went to go load a program lovingly and laboriously saved on a cassette tape, only to find it was gone or just plain didn't #*$%! load.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    2. Re:We used cassettes for more than audio by twosat · · Score: 1

      In 1987, the PXL-2000, a toy black-and-white camcorder was produced that used standard audio cassettes. I remember being amazed when I saw advertisements on TV for it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  28. Dice: /. reciclyng arstechnica articles ... badly by williamyf · · Score: 5, Informative

    I read TFA last night from ARS itself...

    As soon as I read the summary, I realized they got it backwards.

    From TFA:

    ''In a September article, Bloomberg reported that NAC “has deals with major record labels like Sony Music Entertainment and Universal Music Group as well as a number of small contracts with indie bands. About 70 percent of the company's sales are from music cassettes while the rest are blank cassettes.” ''

    70% pre-recorded; 30% blanks.

    --
    *** Suerte a todos y Feliz dia!
  29. Re: Mozilla could learn from this example. by TWX · · Score: 2

    Firefox 3.6 was painfully slow. The speed improvements from 4 onwards made it much more enjoyable to use until they started copying Chrome and doing other bone headed things.

    Yeah, it was great until about Firefox 29...

    --
    Do not look into laser with remaining eye.
  30. Re:Mozilla could learn from this example. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If there was a TUI-based web browser for GNU/Linux supporting JavaScript, HTML, and CSS I could dump Google Chrome and live strictly in the terminal world. I miss the simplicity of my Commodore VIC-20 and loading/saving programs on cassette tapes too.

  31. Springfield Mo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Lived her 30+ years, that company has grown I think every year

  32. Re:Mozilla could learn from this example. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Get back on the freakin' topic!!! Sheesh........

  33. Old cars still have tapedecks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Anyone who buys one might still need tapes.

    1. Re:Old cars still have tapedecks. by n3r0.m4dski11z · · Score: 1

      Not really, because unlike today, car stereos in the 80s and especially in the 90s were a standard DIN size (or double din or what have you). ( iso 7736 in fact! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... )

      Now-a-days stereos are built into the dash in whateevr configuration the car maker chooses but they used to be standard and easily replaceable. I had zero knowledge of cars or electricity when i was 17 but stil managed to replace my parents tape deck with a cd player in the 90s.

      So its not a real reason to keep dealing with the headaches of audio cassettes. You can drop an mp3 playing stereo in your 80s-90s car for like 50 bucks. People don't even steal them anymore they are so cheap.

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      -
    2. Re:Old cars still have tapedecks. by Gavagai80 · · Score: 1

      Possibly... but my '98 car has a tape deck and the only "tape" I use is the $5 tape adapter to plug in my phone.

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      This space intentionally left blank
  34. Re: Mozilla could learn from this example. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Start applying STIGs to your computers

  35. Re:Mozilla could learn from this example. by dryeo · · Score: 2

    SeaMonkey can be built without mail/news and there are Firefox 3.x look alike themes. You get a lean browser with better performance then FF, all the security fixes etc and the familiar FF 3.x UI

    --
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
  36. I could use some for my C64 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I was just busy setting up my C64 and to my surprise, most of my tape data is still there, 30 years later. So yes, this business makes sense to me. All thanks to Philips, Netherlands - of course !

  37. I need audiotape for my MZ721 by mz721 · · Score: 1

    http://www.sharpmz.org/mz-700/... My kids still use it -- seriously!

  38. The good old days? by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

    I grew up in the golden age of audio cassettes. They had lots of great audio features:
    - Tape decks routinely came with specs stating the level of "wow" and "flutter" effects you could expect from the deck, caused by variations in the motor speed and gearing system.
    - Left and right channel tracks routinely bled into each other.
    - Tapes stretched and degraded with each use, further distorting the sound quality.
    - And the hiss...the ever-present hiss! You could turn on Dolby NR, which eliminated a lot of the hiss, but also deadened the sound.

    No, I have no desire to go back to the "good old days" of audio cassettes. Warm subtleties? Maybe, if you are willing to put with all the extra racket to get that precious warmth. No thanks!

  39. Re:Mozilla could learn from this example. by readingprofile · · Score: 1

    That's modern web design for ya. I fucking hate it but I'm hardly an authority to effect change in the industry. Since everyone seems to be doing it (even certain technology-focused sites which should know better) I find it easier to just let it wash over me, as best as possible anyway. :)

  40. Death by stock market capitalism by iamacat · · Score: 1

    Just because a new technology comes along, the older one does not automatically become useless. There are often corner cases which are important for hundreds of thousands of users, or an established user base for which technology works good enough.

    What tapes, floppies, Polaroid or Yahoo's curated internet directory could not fulfil is manyfold growth over short term expected by stock market. We live in a crazy world where a company can make a useful product, provide a living for tens of thousands of employees and post consistent year over year growth in profits. Yet, it gets forced into quality-killing cost cutting or unnecessary risks by shareholders who expect it to justify 100x price/earning ratio. Then it really dies because the product is crap, not because it's intrinsically useless.

    The latest round of silliness is "PC is dying". Of course it is not. It is just been around for enough time for everyone to have one, and people are just in the market for a replacement every few years, where "few" can be as much as a decade for a desktop with a simple use case like balancing the books. But this is too boring for investors, so I am sure I will be forced into doing taxes on my watch when my laptop dies.

  41. Re: Star Wars: SJW Awakens by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By "the SJW crowd", do you mean anyone who isn't a whiny entitled 15 year old basement dwelling white male?

    Not that I'm saying the movie's any good - I haven't seen it yet. It's a shame that in your world simply having lead roles played by females and non white males makes a film somehow the preserve of the people who you imagine are conspiring to castrate you and dye your skin or whatever.

    Some people are black. Quite a lot of them in fact. Some people are female - half the planet as it happens. Isn't it nice to see the diversity of humanity represented on screen? Especially as they are alongside 8ft fur covered bipeds, droids, creatures with tentacle mouths etc.

  42. Long Island Medium by nessman · · Score: 1

    Theresa Caputo, the "Long Island Medium", records each of her "readings" with her clients on standard cassette tape using an old-school cassette recorder.

    www.tlc.com/tv-shows/long-island-medium/videos/about-a-tape-recorder/

  43. Re:Mozilla could learn from this example. by doccus · · Score: 1

    Why the fuck do people suggest SeaMonkey when somebody says they want a "vintage Firefox experience"?! Early releases of Firefox were nothing like SeaMonkey. In fact, they were intentionally not like SeaMonkey! Firefox was created as a response to the bloat and unruly architecture of SeaMonkey (or Mozilla Suite, as it was known then). SeaMonkey embodies the Netscape Communicator mentality that Firefox strove to escape, at least during its early years, although Firefox has now come full-circle and adopted that same mentality with the inclusion of all sorts of unnecessary stuff, along with an unusable UI. So SeaMonkey is the complete opposite of what users asking for a "vintage Firefox experience" want! Only a dumbass would suggest it!

    I think he may be talking about the fact that sea monkey.. like netscape before it.. was much much faster on it's feet than Firefox. At least in my experience. I grew to despise firefox because it took forever to load and render. And I'm talking well over 10 years ago already. Although it was a nightmaere for me on BeOS I found it just as unacceptable on OSX. WHy anyone' ever found it spry I haven't the foggiest.

  44. For a Missouri Cassette Tape Factory, Obsolesence by Cthulhu's+Physicist · · Score: 1

    Maybe I should buy a few and boot up my old VIC 20...

  45. stone tablets are still manufactured by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Stone tablets are used as tombstones.

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    Steve Stites

  46. Well, if they're only wanting music ... by RockDoctor · · Score: 1

    ... let them have it. It's not as if music is of interest to anyone important.

    --
    Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"