Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Has Your Encryption Key If You Use Windows 10 (theintercept.com)
An anonymous reader writes with this bit of news from the Intercept. If you login to Windows 10 using your Microsoft account, your computer automatically uploads a copy of your recovery key to a Microsoft servers. From the article: "The fact that new Windows devices require users to backup their recovery key on Microsoft's servers is remarkably similar to a key escrow system, but with an important difference. Users can choose to delete recovery keys from their Microsoft accounts – something that people never had the option to do with the Clipper chip system. But they can only delete it after they've already uploaded it to the cloud.....As soon as your recovery key leaves your computer, you have no way of knowing its fate. A hacker could have already hacked your Microsoft account and can make a copy of your recovery key before you have time to delete it. Or Microsoft itself could get hacked, or could have hired a rogue employee with access to user data. Or a law enforcement or spy agency could send Microsoft a request for all data in your account, which would legally compel them to hand over your recovery key, which they could do even if the first thing you do after setting up your computer is delete it. As Matthew Green, professor of cryptography at Johns Hopkins University puts it, 'Your computer is now only as secure as that database of keys held by Microsoft, which means it may be vulnerable to hackers, foreign governments, and people who can extort Microsoft employees.'"
I would like to know the opinion of large public corporations security officer on this feature of windows.
How about you don't login with a Microsoft account? That'll show them!
I dont have an encryption key! HA! Take that Microsoft!
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
Did you know if you log-in with you online user account they also have your password?! granted it is probaly hashed but those crafty Russian spies have their ways
So one important thing to remember is that these keys don't give anyone a login or remote access to your box whatsoever. Instead, Windows 10 now turns on disk encryption by default. That's a good thing, but of only limited value since disk encryption really only helps if the disk is physically stolen from you.
So what we have here is a copy of the key that allows recovery of an encrypted disk being stored in the cloud unless you delete it. Not the greatest thing ever but it doesn't panic me all that much when the same people who scream about not upgrading to Windows 10 because OMG NSA are also running old systems without any disk encryption whatsoever.
To put it another way: The vast VAST majority of Linux systems in operation that don't use full disk encryption are actually LESS secure than this setup simply because there's no need to get your hands on a recovery key to decrypt anything. Yes, I'm well aware that Linux systems with full-disk encryption exist. So what, they did (and still do) on Windows too.
AntiFA: An abbreviation for Anti First Amendment.
Good to remember, that Congress just passed new (clearing companies to share any data with the NSA directly without liability) surveillance legislation tucked into the 2015 budget bill:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-po...
The way this (and the data uploading with Windows 10) dovetails with the budget spy bill just passed you'd think it was hatched out in a back room - in D.C.. Obviously don't use Windows 10 if possible (you can still get 7 or 8.1 on most systems) and don't use Microsoft's built in encryption option (which Microsoft kneecapped starting with Windows Version 8 by removing the elephant diffusor making it more vulnerable to brute force attacks), there are other options for Windows Encryption.
When I set up my computer, it stays OFFLINE until I'm finished setting it up. I don't logon with my hotmail account, so technically my key isn't there.
The article states = 'Your computer is now only as secure as that database of keys held by Microsoft, which means it may be vulnerable to hackers, foreign governments, and people who can extort Microsoft employees.'
Yes, because your everyday user's are so much more capable of protecting their data on their computers.
Silliness...
Hey, at least it can't be shortened further to "Windows fixed that for you".
Blank until
I am 12 and what is this?
Consider the alternative:
1. Encrypt the disk and login with Microsoft account
2. Forget the password, reset it from the web
3. Poof! You data is gone!
Maintaining strong security is not a joke. You have to memorize multiple long passphrases for different domains of protected data and never access stuff on devices that have ever left your custody. Like a laptop that has been left at home for NSA keylogger installation convenience. Be prepared to lose data and toss hardware on regular basis. I don't blame Microsoft for not making that the default setting, there is just no way to explain this to users who don't have specialized training.
But you can setup a windows 10 machine with all local accounts and all updates, traffic disabled.
Good guide here http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2015/07/30/windows-10-privacy-settings/
Looking at wireshark it does seem to work
this is no joke. the reason why Microsoft is saving the key is to hand to NSA. the key is not safe. encryption has been broken. every bit of data uploaded over the Internet is saved in NSA databases via upstream fiber tapping. the law didn't change that. even metadata is still being saved.
Microsoft is one of NSA's/DOD's biggest contractors. They secretly hand everything over to them. Your data is being hacked and snooped through even if no one tells you about it.
obamasweapon.com
"I am not a number. I am a free man."
Well, I was a free man until I logged in with my Microsoft account on my Windows 10 PC.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Can someone explain what all this actually means? Why should I care about this recovery key? I back up my own data so... if I had to do a recovery, I can certainly do that.
Not really any scenario where I would think of going to Microsoft to recover anything. What am I missing?
Sig for hire.
If encryption is turned on by default for normal users, there must be a way for the provider to recover the data.
People lose their passwords all the time, and don't want to lose all their data if that happens. For these people, disk encryption is just a way to prevent regular laptop thieves from accessing their data, not to protect them from the NSA and criminals who can hack Microsoft. They don't want end-to-end encryption.
If you need high level security even against Microsoft, then don't use your MS account, or better yet, don't use Windows.
While the main point of the article is about a Windows account there is an underlying discussion on overall privacy using Microsoft Windows. This is just the latest article discussing privacy and security concerns. Sure, "some" businesses are always years behind in releasing a new OS. Others are not so far behind, and are very concerned about security so not approving Win10.
For example, as soon as the OS was released we see how the OS will send your keystrokes to Microsoft. Not just what you type into Cortana, IE, or Edge but ALL keystrokes are recorded by the OS. You can disable sending the data to Microsoft, but we have yet to find a way of disabling the keylogger built in to the Kernel. (recorded does not necessarily mean stored long term, but long enough to evaluate in memory.)
Due to that lack of trust, I may have installed Win10 but never created a MS or Azure account. Anything I do on the device is treated as public knowledge because the OS is built to remove privacy from end users. I won't use online banking on the PC with Win10, and logging in to anything is assessed under the assumption that someone from MS and the Government will have full access to the account. When I'm working on sensitive stuff I use Linux.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
Yours :P
Thank you Dave Raggett
Should be noted, TrueCrypt 7.1a (last full version) works fine with Windows 10 if you're really concerned about someone thieving your data. I highly doubt the OS has your TrueCrypt keys if you use this solution, Microsoft account or not.
I mean, this should be pretty old news by now, but the moral of the story is the same as the previous N stories where using a Microsoft account uploads your personal information to Microsoft's (and the government's) servers: don't use a Microsoft account. At least this is a relatively easy fix which avoids a lot of the badness of Windows 10. I view it like running an ad blocker: yeah, it's kinda bad for convenience sometimes, but it's a small price to pay to avoid malware I know about, and other malicious things in the future.
The conclusion in the article was that everybody who manages to hack the MS database or extorts an employee there would get access to my data. While i severely doubt that accessing the key is easily possible for an employee (i would not think so) without being noticed, there is another important point: Whoever steals my key, still needs access to my physical access to the HD (an that is the only situation in which stealing the key makes a difference: physical access, but no possibility to manipulate the OS before).
That would be
(1) thieves
(2) anybody who buys the device witout being wiped correctly
(3) anybody who finde the device after being lost
(4) law enforcement (with court orders)
(5) intelligence service (in the gray zone)
1-3 probably wont get access to the key
4 at least will have to show an official document to MS to get the key (and at least make the transgression trackable, and therefore less likely that some stupid cop "just because he does not like your nose" will search the computer)
IMHO 1-4 are much more likely threats than 5.
Lets go to 5. If you are the target of an attack of any stat-level actor nowadays, i would assume that the level of precaution you have to take goes far beyond "not storing you key at MS". Dont get me wrong, i use local encryption and dont upload the key somewhere.
so the choice is
* making encryption unusable to the everyday user (most likely to get victim of accidental loss/theft) since they are afraid to loose theirs keys (imagine the kind of publicity MS would get....)
* accepting that law-enforcement/state-level actors still can transgress on a few selected users under substantially increased effort, but protect the average user from the fall-out of loosing his/her device
I personally thinks it's absolutely sane to choose the latter (and contrary to the statement in the article, most companies actually *do* store recovery keys centrally for Bitlocker.
If you believe that you are under treat by any western state-level actor, then trust nobody and nothing besides your own brain. The majority of the advice/ideas/hints/analysis which are reported in the tech press in respect to security are worthless shit.
Microsoft doesn't give anything away for free without a catch.
In this instance, the catch is your encryption key.
Political correctness is really just herd psychology pushed by insecure people who desperately seek social conformity.
nonsense, instead use a distro (or other open source operating system for that matter) that is actually built for privacy and security as a prime consideration. There are Linux distros like that, and there is a BSD that is extremely like that
Tbqh, I have entertained the idea of running windows offline for quite some time now. I run a windows 7 pro desktop and a windows 7 pro tablet. On both I use Bleachbit, PrivaZer, & run Yamicsofts Windows7 Mgr, using Tinywall as a windows fw gui. Yamicsoft allows you to see the tasks created that send data back and/or the one that silently sets you up for an unwanted OS update. I delete them all. As for encryption, gpg4win or the like is useful to me. Full disk is not necessary atm and in fact the only thing I encrypt is obviously my password manager. I will be investing in a couple of Yubikeys before spring to get two factor up and running system wide, incl. for my phone. Windows 10 is too full of holes, driver and or sound problems, and clearly cannot be trusted. As well, unless they can claim it is significantly faster than 7, which it isn't, It is absolutely useless to me unfortunately.
It says "all your base are belong to us".
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Does MS having a copy of a WIndows 10 Pro bitlocker key for a PC in a small medical office violate HIPPA or is the issue moot?
Absolutely NO ONE can be surprised by this. Anyone think NSA wasn't in this up their eyeballs?
like Microsoft developers forums?
Bitlocker lets you have the option to save your "recovery key" to USB, or to print it. In both cases, you can destroy the key effectively (note that you'll have to take care to ensure that the USB device is physically destroyed or secured in a manner secure against attackers you are concerned about, and that your printer doesn't keep a recoverable copy somewhere).
So Bitlocker is (in theory) safe and secure. Personally, I wouldn't trust this- it's proprietary, it's Microsoft, and there's every motivation to either make the key recoverable or disclose it for uses Microsoft deems useful (for instance, a future tyrannical government might be able to threaten them in such a way as to produce the keys). But by their claims, it should be.
The article distinguishes this from "device encryption", a gimped form of Bitlocker present in the "Home" edition that they give for free (or cheap or whatever- once I did even the first amount of research into Windows 10 I decided to avoid it entirely). If you pay for Professional, you get access to "Bitlocker", which has configuration options, including the print-out and USB options, which can result in NO recovery key- the generally desired state from a security perspective.
The headline of the article truthfully states that Microsoft "probably" has your recovery key, and the slashdot headline leaves that out totally. Both leave out the important fact that you have to be using the "device encryption" version of Bitlocker in the shit-tier version of Windows 10.
There's other posts talking about the keylogger, or kernel keylogging. I'm not sure the fact that the kernel keeps your keystrokes for awhile is inherently vulnerable, but it is suspicious.
In any event, the fact that you must be an expert user to get anything that MIGHT be security out of Windows 10 is absolutely disgusting. The Home version will be the most common by far, and the average user will not be aware of the default settings where keys are sent (along with a ton of other things) upstream, nor will he be aware of the fact that his supposed device encryption is recoverable by any hacker or bad actor in the future. The level of drama required to do anything in Windows 10 is massive. It's a real nightmare.
Anyone notice how oddly hard it is to set up anything but straight AES in almost all places? There's a shocking lack of user exposed options even in Linux (and Linux can be configured to extremely high levels of redundancy or security). Name a distro that lets you full disk encrypt with AES-Twofish-Serpent from a GUI, for instance (again, you can absolutely configure this, but it seems hard to get anything but straight AES). I know AES is trusted, but I'd trust it more if there were ways more ways to opt out of it and use either another block cipher, or it WITH another block cipher.
To not use Microsoft's products!
You are attempting to conflate a kernel passing device information, with a kernel capturing and analyzing that information. It is not the same thing, and I think people should be insulted reading posts like yours.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
If you read the post you will see that the memory is still evaluated for particulars which ANY application could grab if it knew the correct system calls. Pass through is NOT what Windows 10 is doing.
-The wise argue that there are few absolutes, the fool argues that there are no probabilities.
This has been the case since Windows 8 if you used BitLocker while logging into your PC using a Microsoft Account. It's not one of the newly deployed 'features' either, I looked into it when I was going to purchase a Surface Pro 2 a couple of years ago. The simplest solution is to log in with a local account.
http://windows.microsoft.com/e...
See "How can I get my BitLocker recovery key".
My question here is, is the recovery key at least encrypted (by whatever method) with your account password on their servers or is it in the clear to MS? If the latter is true, then that's another reason to use some other method of system encryption. If the former then, yes, it's somewhat troubling that this can't be disabled prior to uploading the key but, it's really not the worst problem.
Does it really matter where your key is stored? I think not.
I continue to get spam from an Indian company about it, but, why should I care about their new viruses?
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"