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Google Confirms Next Android Version Won't Use Oracle's Proprietary Java APIs

Posted by samzenpus on from the on-our-own dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Google is ditching the Java application programming interfaces (APIs) in Android and moving to only OpenJDK. The news first came by a "mysterious Android codebase commit" from last month submitted to Hacker News. Google confirmed to VentureBeat that Android N will rely solely on OpenJDK. “As an open-source platform, Android is built upon the collaboration of the open-source community,” a Google spokesperson told VentureBeat. “In our upcoming release of Android, we plan to move Android’s Java language libraries to an OpenJDK-based approach, creating a common code base for developers to build apps and services. Google has long worked with and contributed to the OpenJDK community, and we look forward to making even more contributions to the OpenJDK project in the future.”

215 comments

  1. Good time to be an Android developer! by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I wonder how much stuff this is going to break?

    --
    Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    1. Re: Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      As long as it pisses off Larry Ellison, it's worth it.

    2. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very little, if you abstracted it right.

    3. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by rsmith-mac · · Score: 1

      I wonder how much stuff this is going to break?

      That's my first thought as well. OpenJDK is almost identical to Oracle Java as far as I know (it's even the reference implementation for Java starting with 7), so what are the real implications of this? And just what exactly is Google "giving up" by moving to OpenJDK?

    4. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by maligor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I wonder how much stuff this is going to break?

      The difference between OpenJDK and Java JDK is meaningless (In Android), so nothing will break. I think the core build systems has been using OpenJDK over official java for a while, and I would imagine this is the shift for the app developer stuff, but it won't really change anything aside from having to download a new JDK.

    5. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by nyet · · Score: 1

      This changes nothing, both legally and technically. The API is exactly the same.

      Stupid.

    6. Re: Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure Google is telling Larry that he can kiss their puckered brown Oracle.

    7. Re: Good time to be an Android developer! by ClickOnThis · · Score: 5, Funny

      I'm sure Google is telling Larry that he can kiss their puckered brown Oracle.

      Google could tell Larry to go fuck himself.

      But I wouldn't be surprised if he married himself.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    8. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Informative

      OpenJDK is under the GPL, which means there will be a lot more GPL in Android now.

      Here is the commit message. Right now they are just copying files over, so it's not entirely clear what they will be doing with the OpenJDK stuff, but it's in there. Presumably Google will modify it to use Dalvik (or whatever VM they are using now).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by PCM2 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The difference between OpenJDK and Java JDK is meaningless (In Android), so nothing will break

      If that's true, why haven't they been using it all along? The first commercial Android phone was unveiled in late 2008. The OpenJDK class library was pretty complete by then.

      --
      Breakfast served all day!
    10. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While OpenJDK is almost identical to Oracle Java, I have had many problems with OpenJDK in the past. OpenJDK will core dump on code that Oracle Java won't; literally the entire process crashes. So I'm also curious as to what the new and exciting problems will be.

    11. Re: Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes. Now dear Google, since you are working with the open source community, open source Google Play Services. Oh, you are assholes too? I see.

    12. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Tumbleweed · · Score: 2

      Application-wise, probably not much, what with the official move over to ART.

    13. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by stephanruby · · Score: 1

      I wonder how much stuff this is going to break?

      None on the OpenJDK side. OpenJDK has been the officially recommended JDK for Android development for the past year already.

      I suppose this announcement means that Android will stop supporting the Oracle JDK from now on, and I suppose that means there will be a lot of breakage on that side.

    14. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by stephanruby · · Score: 5, Informative

      The difference between OpenJDK and Java JDK is meaningless (In Android), so nothing will break

      If that's true, why haven't they been using it all along? The first commercial Android phone was unveiled in late 2008. The OpenJDK class library was pretty complete by then.

      The answer was Eclipse. Eclipse didn't work very well with the OpenJDK.

    15. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I don't quite get why Google doesn't address one of the app developer's longest standing complaints, and ditch Java completely. They don't have to do it right away, just next version of Android they should feature a new runtime based on something else, and over oh say 5 years, (when the old apps are probably not terribly relevant) they can hard compile all of the existing apps in the play store that haven't been updated to both ARM and X86 (for e.g. old games that the developer no longer maintains but people still want to play) and then remove the old runtime.

    16. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by i.r.id10t · · Score: 1

      Then one wonders why they just didn't do a whole Linux OS and use (some of) the existing infrastructure in addition to the kernel

      As far as usability, I had a Nokia 770 which ran Maemo, and I was able to add the appropriate Debian repositories and get updates, new packages, etc.

      --
      Don't blame me, I voted for Kodos
    17. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by BradleyUffner · · Score: 1

      While OpenJDK is almost identical to Oracle Java, I have had many problems with OpenJDK in the past. OpenJDK will core dump on code that Oracle Java won't; literally the entire process crashes. So I'm also curious as to what the new and exciting problems will be.

      Considering that Android doesn't actually run the Java code, it just uses the same API, it shouldn't have any problems like that. The only thing that should break is binary compatibility if there is an API call mismatch.

    18. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      doesn't address one of the app developer's longest standing complaints, and ditch Java completely.
      Any links for that? What would be a sensible replacement for Java, except Swift?

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    19. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 2, Informative

      I had a 770 too, and I remember just how badly the UI sucked. Most of the apps that weren't part of the standard install weren't designed for touchscreen input and were clunky (most of the ones that were designed for the touchscreen were still clunky). It had a resistive touchscreen, so couldn't take advantage of multitouch and came with a stylus because you needed to tap very accurately to be able to hit controls on a lot of things. Great screen for the era though.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    20. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by swillden · · Score: 1

      "OpenJDK is under the GPL, which means there will be a lot more GPL in Android now."

      Good, let the virality begin.

      Muahahaha... yeah baby, this will force Google to open source all of the code that is... er... uh... open source.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    21. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Forever+Wondering · · Score: 1

      Google has been working on Dart [has its own VM which is more efficient, but can cross-compile to the JVM]. But, Dart hasn't caught on quite the way they hoped. And, then there's Scala ... And, I do believe perl6 can [or will] compile to the JVM.

      They could also migrate away from the JVM since they [sort of] do already by doing JIT conversion to dex format [which is a "general purpose register" model rather than a "stack machine" model, IIRC].

      This gets done when a new APK is installed. Also, when my Galaxy S3 gets a firmware update, after the 2nd auto-reboot, it goes through an "optimizing apps" phase for all my installed apps [the dex conversion, AFAICT]. This could be extended to translate legacy binary API calls to whatever they come up with. For new development, developers just use the new API definition files [which sidestep the alleged copyright issue]

      --
      Like a good neighbor, fsck is there ...
    22. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by jonwil · · Score: 1

      Depending on how Google uses OpenJDK, they may be forced to open source other code that is being linked into GPL code.

    23. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It is hard to understand if the statement means anything at all. OpenJDK is a set of libraries in JVM bytecode from Java source and native binaries from C source. These libraries provide all the APIs that you need to build and run Java programs. Previously Android had a set of librairies in Dalvik bytecode from their own Java source and native binaries from their own C source. Are they going to use the OpenJDK Java source rather than their pre-existing source or are they going to merge their Java source into OpenJDK so it becomes one and the same.

      Either way the stuff is still compiled to Dalvik bytecode which is the bit that Oracle does not like.

    24. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by hawkinspeter · · Score: 1

      Legally OpenJDK is covered by the GPL which would allow Google to do what they want with it providing they abide by the license (provide source code which they already do).

      --
      You're a temporary arrangement of matter sliding towards oblivion in a cold, uncaring universe
    25. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C++ with QT.

    26. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Depending on how Google uses OpenJDK, they may be forced to open source other code that is being linked into GPL code.

      No, no they won't, because Android is already Open Source. You can already download it (if you have a good connection and a super shitload of disk space) and build it (if you have a super monster machine with all the advantages in the world) and run it on your own device. Google has already segregated their closed-source stuff out into Play Services.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    27. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Richard_at_work · · Score: 1

      And what about third party apps now linking to OpenJDK instead of the Java JDK?

    28. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by jonwil · · Score: 1

      What I meant is that there are bits of code currently under something like Apache (where Google releases the source code but OEMs are under no obligation to actually release anything) but where using OpenJDK will now require those pieces of code to be GPL (and therefore shared by Android OEMs)

      3rd party apps that just call the Java APIs will be covered by the "classpath exception" in the OpenJDK license.

    29. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Cyberax · · Score: 2

      License.

      OpenJDK is GPLv3 with Classpath extension (it basically says "GPL does not infect your code"). Android was using libraries by Apache Harmony, which are under Apache v2 license.

    30. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am fairly sure Google knows exactly what they use and how they use it, and will not be forced to open any code whatsoever that they are not prepared to open.

      That said, the more code they open, the better, forced or not.

    31. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Sique · · Score: 1

      According to Linking over controlled Interface this is not a problem, as long as the OpenJDK license allows linking via the OpenJDK API.

      --
      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    32. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      The Psion 5 had similar hardware limitations, but the UI was fine. But perhaps that's because, having a more or less unique OS, most of its apps were designed specifically for it.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    33. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      http://www.joelonsoftware.com/...

    34. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

      I don't quite get why Google doesn't address one of the app developer's longest standing complaints, and ditch Java completely. They don't have to do it right away, just next version of Android they should feature a new runtime based on something else, and over oh say 5 years, (when the old apps are probably not terribly relevant) they can hard compile all of the existing apps in the play store that haven't been updated to both ARM and X86 (for e.g. old games that the developer no longer maintains but people still want to play) and then remove the old runtime.

      I'm sure is in the works. It was actually a shrewd move, to use Java as it opens up the development field to potentially millions of developers with significant less tech-stack training (comparing to, say, Objective-C, for example.) I'm not saying this is ultimately good or bad. I'm simply saying it made sense at the time.

      Myself, I think a higher level language like Python or Ruby, or something along the lines of Swift (with a shim/support for native C development when needed) would have been better, but that would have involved a learning curve that was critical to flatten at the time Android was being taken off the ground.

      I believe at some point Google will start migrating off Java, or create an abstraction on top of it. It has too if the shenanigans with Oracle continue. But if that shit abates, then Java, as is, will remain.

      It is not perfect. It is not even ideal. But it is adequate enough, plus it automatically leverages a large, almost two-decade long accumulated body of knowledge. That is not something to sneeze at.

    35. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google has been working on Dart [has its own VM which is more efficient, but can cross-compile to the JVM]. But, Dart hasn't caught on quite the way they hoped. And, then there's Scala ... And, I do believe perl6 can [or will] compile to the JVM.

      There's also Clojure, which I've found to be very nice to use in general, and has some nice perks for Android development. It has a library (Neko) that wraps Android APIs to be more idiomatic, and you can use the network REPL to modify and test code changes on-the-fly on a device in the same way you could test code locally with a REPL.

      Between that and Scala for the Java people that want something more familiar-looking, you're pretty well covered for nice JVM languages even without anything else, though there are a bunch of other options like jruby, groovy, mirah, etc. Java (the platform) hasn't been about only Java (the language) for quite some time.

    36. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference wasn't always meaningless. OpenJDK and Java have virtually converged in JDK8.

    37. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      C with Gnome3.

      (snicker)

    38. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Willing to define "right" before you get to see what breaks?

    39. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Google has been working on Dart [has its own VM which is more efficient, but can cross-compile to the JVM].

      There is a cross-compiler for dart to javascript but not to the JVM, javascript != java.

    40. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by TheRaven64 · · Score: 1

      The Psion had an order of magnitude slower CPU and less RAM. The UI was vastly superior to the 770, though that's probably because it had a keyboard and the apps for it were evolution of the ones for the Series 3 that were developed for a keyboard-only interface.

      --
      I am TheRaven on Soylent News
    41. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They have been doing this. That's why now when you update Android it takes much longer than before. It pre-compiles everything for google's own virtual machine like language.

    42. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't quite get why Google doesn't address one of the app developer's longest standing complaints, and ditch Java completely. They don't have to do it right away, just next version of Android they should feature a new runtime based on something else, and over oh say 5 years, (when the old apps are probably not terribly relevant) they can hard compile all of the existing apps in the play store that haven't been updated to both ARM and X86 (for e.g. old games that the developer no longer maintains but people still want to play) and then remove the old runtime.

      What about the "Go" language: https://golang.org/ with efforts towards mobile: https://godoc.org/golang.org/x/mobile/cmd/gomobile

    43. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      I don't quite get why Google doesn't address one of the app developer's longest standing complaints, and ditch Java completely.

      Who's been complaining about that? What language would you prefer they use?

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    44. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Language should be irrelevant, like it is in .NET. It's a bad idea to force developers to use a single language.

    45. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by non0score · · Score: 1

      In ART, the apk is already in dex format (done by the build tools). On device, they are recompiled to the oat format. This last step is also what's done again in the optimization step, since as libs change, the dex needs to be "relinked" to the zygote image. See here.

    46. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And what about third party apps now linking to OpenJDK instead of the Java JDK?

      OpenJDK has the classpath exception which apparently is for practical purposes identical to LGPL - this means applications that run on top of the OS do not have to be GPL.

    47. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 1

      Who's been complaining about that? What language would you prefer they use?

      When I read developer commentary on modern app development, they always complain about how long it takes to develop apps for Android vs other platforms, the chief reason cited is java.

      As for what else they'd use? I don't know, I'm not a developer, but they often say nice things about c#. I know, Microsoft language, but it's both an ECMA and ISO standard (ECMA-334 and ISO/IEC 23270:2006, respectively) so there shouldn't be any lawsuit issues. And besides, Xamarin doesn't seem to have any problems with it. Even though I'm not a developer, I've played with c# (written a few small open source programs which you probably haven't heard of) and it is a pretty decent language that I can tell from my limited experience.

      Of course, it's probably bad for other political reasons I'm not aware of, however that doesn't mean there aren't other options.

    48. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      When I read developer commentary on modern app development, they always complain about how long it takes to develop apps for Android vs other platforms, the chief reason cited is java.

      I don't know what commentary you are talking about really, I've done a decent amount of Android programming and the Java is fine. The layout is a little wonky, but once you get used to it, that's not a problem.

      As for what else they'd use? I don't know, I'm not a developer, but they often say nice things about c#.

      C# and Java are basically the same language. There are minor differences, of course all languages have differences.
      Most likely if someone complains about Java in Android, but not in C# for Windows Phone, they are having trouble because the GUI builder tool for Windows Phone is a lot nicer than the one for Android. In Android, you'll probably have to code the GUI by hand, much like if you were making a web page in HTML. In Windows Phone (and on iOS, too, actually), you can get away without understand the underlying layout code.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    49. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was a strategic mistake to use Apache Harmony code in the first place, but I suspect it was done to avoid stricter OpenJDK licensing.
      That implementation allowed google to close the core source code if needed. This obviously isn't necessary, so they can use GPLv2 + classpath exception which turns it into a license more similar to LGPL. Good, but too late for the damage done to API's being non copyrightable. Maybe a settlement can set that back, but I think Oracle will now go for it.

    50. Re:Good time to be an Android developer! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      It was a strategic mistake to use Apache Harmony code in the first place, but I suspect it was done to avoid stricter OpenJDK licensing.

      Yes. A lot of Google's Android partners don't like the GPL.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  2. java sucks anyway by Xicor · · Score: 0, Troll

    i hate java, and i hate the java on android even more. good thing there is an NDK.

    1. Re:java sucks anyway by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      i hate java, and i hate the java on android even more. good thing there is an NDK.

      I fiddled around with java and it was interesting, but I confess I didn't put enough time into it to get fluent.

      I could see a lot of the upsides/benefits to it but I just got sidetracked by other stuff and lost interest. It didn't "grab" me the way some other languages did, but some of the java jockeys I know are pretty adept with it and won't use anything else.

      Different strokes for different folks, I guess.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    2. Re:java sucks anyway by gerald.edward.butler · · Score: 1

      Limitations? Name one.

    3. Re:java sucks anyway by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Seriously? You can't allocate objects on the stack, you can't manage your own memory, you can't have multiple inheritance, you can't use unsigned ints, the list goes on.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  3. Too little, too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Informative

    All the apps continue to be developed for iOS. That's where the money is, less theft, less radically different OS's.

    1. Re: Too little, too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit in both counts - says the developer of both!

    2. Re: Too little, too late by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Confirmed - currently our Android apps are roughly 65% of our user base, IOS the rest. Android has been somewhat-steadily climbing - IOS hasnt been the majority of our user base for about 2 years.

  4. so..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This move doesn't really mean anything wrt performance, huh?

    1. Re:so..... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      it crashes faster, okay?

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:so..... by phantomfive · · Score: 0

      D. Trump, the first Troll President?

      I think that was William Henry Harrison (although maybe he took it a little too far for a troll)

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re:so..... by BitZtream · · Score: 1

      It'll get worse, thats what it means

      --
      Persistent Volume manager for Kubernetes - https://github.com/dwimsey/openshift-pvmanager
    4. Re:so..... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe he's an orc.

    5. Re:so..... by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      This guy looks most orcish to me, but who knows. He certainly shares the hair thing going on with Trump.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  5. Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    It sure didn't take long for you academic types to chime in.

    Yeah, I'm sure it's nice that you're able to sit there in your filthy office or stand in front of a half-asleep class, rambling on about UML, OO and abstractions.

    But none of the shit you spew works in the real world.

    As for the rest of us, well, we have to get real work done! And that means getting down and dirty with messy APIs, with legacy code, with ever-changing specs, and facing down the uncertainty that's present in real projects.

    We don't have the luxury of just ignoring the difficult parts of the problems we're facing, unlike you academic types who readily do that. We don't have semester after semester to waste on perfecting simple software which will never actually be used by anyone. We can't claim that our ideas work, but then never actually implement them.

    The "abstraction" you speak of is a concept that only works in one's mind. It does not happen in reality.

    1. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by SirSlud · · Score: 1

      Lol, good lord, thanks for that laugh.

      --
      "Old man yells at systemd"
    2. Re: Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      From someone who has a CS degree but wasn't taught good OO principles. It works very well in the real world. So well they were worth learning on my own.

    3. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

      Are you a laughing academic, laughing out of pure ignorance?

      Or are you a laughing practitioner, laughing at the sad reality of software development?

    4. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      As for the rest of us, well, we have to get real work done! And that means getting down and dirty with messy APIs, with legacy code, with ever-changing specs, and facing down the uncertainty that's present in real projects.

      That sort of thing only increases the importance of having an abstraction layer so you don't spread all those problems throughout your code, the problems stay on their own messy side of the line.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re: Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      OO is useful in some limited scenarios but has little practical use.

    6. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In what fucking world?

    7. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by reve_etrange · · Score: 1

      The one where last year they had 8 cores and 3 GB RAM, obviously.

      --
      .: Semper Absurda :.
    8. Re: Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please, find the tallest building in your area and jump from it. Or at the very least move to the business track already.

      Anything but touching a line of code ever again.

    9. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

      Wow. Longtime Java programmer here. Switched to OpenJDK a few years ago to make deployments on Linix easier (many distros stopped providing Oracle JDKs through their package managers). Not a single thing broke. Not even a little.

      So many many mane projects are likely to continue to work after a switch from Oracle to OpenJDK. Basically, as long as you don't directly use any com.sun.whatever or sun.misc.whatever code directly (like everyone used to do for base64 encoding, or writing JPG files), then you should be fine. Basically, if you have been doing what both Sun and Oracle have been telling Java programmers to do for about 10 or so years, now, your code should move from one JVM to another without blowing up.

      But isn't Android "not Java"? *ducks*

    10. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The one where last year they had 8 cores and 3 GB RAM, obviously.

      Standard???

    11. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a year, that abstraction layer you're talking about will be the problem being abstracted away.

      Exactly.

      I had a problem, so I decided to code a solution in OO. Now I have 62 problems.

    12. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...What?

      Wtf is Linix? Wtf is a mane project?

    13. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you replace 1 fast CPU with 8 CPUs that run at 1/8th the speed your phone didn't actually get any faster (see all the chips with 8-core A 53s, though it's not quite as horribly slow, but it's still fairly slow).
      It possibly got more energy-efficient though.

    14. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, in reality people always will run into issues.
      Also you need to keep in mind that Android doesn't run Java bytecode, but compiles the bytecode further on. As any compiler, it might break when new constructs are used.
      That said, due to the annoyance of running Oracle JDK on Linux as you mention, I've always used OpenJDK for Android development and haven't seen any issues.
      Though I usually had to make sure to not use the latest version, otherwise I'd get errors from those bytecode post-processing steps.

    15. Re: Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Threni · · Score: 1

      Fuck off,asshole. You're full of shit.

    16. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Right. This is a symptom of being an idiot and making things more complicated than they need to be.

      You had one problem and decided to fix that problem by completely refactoring your code into OO...

    17. Re: Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to get religious but AMEN! No code for you.

      OO is not just academic.

    18. Re: Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by cbiltcliffe · · Score: 1

      If the most complex software you write is a guestbook, then yes, you should probably avoid OO. The rest of us, though, who write complex, 10,000+ line code bases have much nigger problems than the 4 guestbook signatures on our nerdrage blog with a total of 3 posts bitching about MS, Oracle, and systemd.

      --
      "City hall" in German is "Rathaus" Kinda explains a few things......
    19. Re: Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by easyTree · · Score: 1

      "Working correctly" is out of scope for this app?

      --
      Requiem for the American Dream
    20. Re: Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by ChoGGi · · Score: 1

      I see a good reason to use spell checking, or if not then what program do you use for spell checking?

    21. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      Wtf is a mane project?

      Psycho touchscreen spell correction

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    22. Re: Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by joemck · · Score: 1

      The only spellcheck fails in that post are OO, nerdrage and systemd, at least according to my Firefox. The real error passes spellcheck, but fails the grammar check and meaning check Firefox doesn't have.

    23. Re: Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ... but a bitch ain't one.

    24. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by phorm · · Score: 1

      I see the recall reading the OpenJDK was the reference build for Java 7 anyhow. Java 6 had a bunch of nastiness that was pure oracle, but for 7 the Open JDK had most of the desired functionality with the Oracle version just bolting some additional functionality on to it.

    25. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Where do you draw the line of acceptable abstraction? Or perhaps you're a purist who works directly in machine language. Even most modern assembly languages provide more than direct mnemonics for opcodes, and therefore offer some minimal level of abstraction. A procedural language as "close to the metal" as C is still an abstraction, and standard C functions like malloc are abstractions over the underlying OS (or embedded) allocation schemes.

      Another AC poster suggested you jump off a building. Please don't, at least not before providing a list of prior employers and projects. That way some of the contractors here can contact them about fixing their undoubtedly sub-par non-trivial software (written by you with procedural methods) - a win for your prior employers, and a win for the would-be contractors. Then you can head for that roof.

      Oh, and just in case you want to respond with something like, "I use procedural for small tasks and FP for larger projects", even LISP is an abstraction. Get over it, already.

      - T

    26. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Its so often that a legacy application has a major component ripped out, that Everything should have an abstraction layer.
      As a side-benefit you get a shit-ton of extra code that uses extra memory and contains over 1000 interfaces! (sarc.)

    27. Re:Abstractions: a purely academic concept. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      That's basically Object Oriented Programming, the way it is implemented in Java (and in C#).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  6. Try Kotlinlang.org by jblues · · Score: 2, Interesting

    If you're developing for Android it is worth checking out Kotlin along with the Anko libs from Jetbrains.

    Kotlin, by the company that provides the Android Studio platform, is built on the Java platform and adds a modern, fashionable multi-paradigm (OO, functional) syntax, fixes some gaps in the Java standard libs, adds optionals that are (IMHO) easier to read than Swift's. It seems to be the best bet for getting a modern, fashionable language on Android, ie does not add to download size, seamless operation with other libs, etc.

    You can also use Kotlin as a backend language, eg with Spring Boot, and it compiles to JavaScript too, so can be used client-side. You could even use it on iOS if you wanted, with RoboVM.

    I've spent the last few years developing focusing almost 100% on iOS, but am willing to give Android another try in 2016

    .

    --
    If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
    1. Re:Try Kotlinlang.org by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're developing for Android it is worth checking out Kotlin [kotlinlang.org] along with the Anko [github.com] libs from Jetbrains.

      I said it elsewhere already, but not just Kotlin: try any of the alternative JVM languages. Try many of them. Find what suits you. I personally like Clojure, a lot of folks like Scala, Groovy seemed interesting (but Android supposed was weak before, maybe not now), etc. Mirah is basically pure Java with a Ruby-like syntax -- it has no runtime like Scala/Groovy/Clojure/others. If you're willing to sacrifice performance you can even go higher-level and use something like JRuby+Ruboto.

      Using the JVM doesn't mean you're stuck with the Java language any more. Hasn't for a few years, some of these options have been mature alternatives for a while now.

    2. Re:Try Kotlinlang.org by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Using the JVM doesn't mean you're stuck with the Java language any more. Hasn't for a few years, some of these options have been mature alternatives for a while now."

      Ah. Well, you see, the thing is, a great many of us accept "money" - often a great deal of it - in exchange for making these apps. And of course, when one accepts "money" for an app, the priority is then the customer and the app - ones delicate sensibilities go out the window. All self-indulgent considerations of which language we want to use go out the window, and practical pragmatic considerations come to the fore - that being that when someone pays you for an Android App, they are paying you for java code.

      You sound like a hobbyist programmer. Nothing wrong with that, per se.

    3. Re:Try Kotlinlang.org by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      None of that invalidates my point, which was that targeting the JVM doesn't mean being tied to Java. If someone's paying you specifically for Java source code, then of course that's what you should provide unless you're in a position to find another contract or influence policy in your workplace. That wasn't part of the discussion, though.

      That said, being paid to make an Android application doesn't automatically require the use of Java. Depends entirely on the situation you're in and what you're dealing with already. Compelling arguments can be made for starting a new project in a different language that still has access to Java's strengths, and languages like Scala and Clojure have strong interopability with existing Java code.

      Clojure, for example, is implemented as a library on top of Java; it's just another dependency you can add, albeit one that lets you use a more reasonable language to do your work. It may be possible to 'sell' the idea by emphasising that, along with elimination of common bugs due to Clojure's design and a faster, more iterative development process. Scala, on the other hand, is more akin to a superset of Java, which might be easier to sell to people that already know and use Java everywhere.

      Still, sometimes you can't do it you get stuck with Java, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean it's the only option available, ever, and no one should learn and use anything else. It's a tool like any other, and we should be more willing to use different tools in different situations, instead of dismissing the idea and making condescending comments like yours whenever someone suggests that a toolbox should have more than just a hammer inside.

    4. Re:Try Kotlinlang.org by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahh yes, Kotlin, the language that is half as mature as Scala and tries to be Scala. Might as well just use Scala...

    5. Re:Try Kotlinlang.org by non0score · · Score: 1

      Jetbrains doesn't provide the Android Studio platform, they provide the underlying base editor of the Android Studio platform.

    6. Re:Try Kotlinlang.org by jblues · · Score: 1

      The IntelliJ platform is much more than an editor. For example, it provides the following:

      • Refactoring such as inline, extract method, extract variable, rename method, rename class.
      • Code sense such as badges that show, for example, which classes implement a given interface, and identification of poor practices.
      • Test execution facilities with listener and GUI feedback.
      --
      If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
    7. Re:Try Kotlinlang.org by euroq · · Score: 1

      Kotlin is not Scala. Kotlin is Java 3.0.

      --
      Just because the U.S. is a republic does not mean it is not a democracy. Democracy/republic are not mutually exclusive.
  7. There you go, Oracle. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Like with Sony's Betamax.

    "Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it"

    1. Re:There you go, Oracle. by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      If Oracle gets a billion dollars from their lawsuit, they won't care if they lose users in the process.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  8. They are not "Oracle's proprietary Java APIs". by gavron · · Score: 1

    "Proprietary" is a word meaning ownership. Oracle does not own any APIs.
    If you mean "hold the copyright to" well the US Congress wrote the law and it says they can't.
    The courts last year said they sort of can (in the 9th District). So in the 9th district Oracle
    has copyrights (but it's still not their proprietary anything) and in the other districts nothing.

    SCOTUS declined to hear it. Perhaps with conflicting rulings in other districts they will
    harmonize this and once again APIs will be free from copyright throughout the world. This
    is now true EXCEPT for the US Federal 9th District.

    Ehud

    1. Re:They are not "Oracle's proprietary Java APIs". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      because there is such uncertainty with a lot to lose, it's de facto proprietary.

    2. Re:They are not "Oracle's proprietary Java APIs". by speedplane · · Score: 1

      The courts last year said they sort of can (in the 9th District). So in the 9th district Oracle has copyrights (but it's still not their proprietary anything) and in the other districts nothing.

      It was the Federal Circuit's decision, not the Ninth Circuit. While not binding on other circuits, the Federal Circuit is extremely influential.

      --
      Fast Federal Court and I.T.C. updates
    3. Re:They are not "Oracle's proprietary Java APIs". by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      True - wanted to hit cancel/edit but... alas too late.

      They also wouldn't have had jurisdiction at all except for the spurious patent issues, which by then had been removed, and yet they kept the case and issued a hasty judgement.

      Ehud

    4. Re:They are not "Oracle's proprietary Java APIs". by SLi · · Score: 1

      Yes, but the Federal Circuit's decision in this case is binding (only) in the 9th Circuit, I believe. You are right, though, that it will have influence in other circuits.

      While I don't like the result, contrary to what others have written, I do not find the Federal Circuit's decision in this case to be hasty; on the contrary, I think it was very well reasoned. It's not for the courts to make law, but to interpret it. The decision made, in my opinion, well the case that this is what the law says and it is for the legislature to fix it if you want it fixed. I think the major problem is the completely broken legislature in the US. I think this probably also factored into why the Supreme Court did not grant certiorari (they also prefer to let issues percolate in lower courts before taking a suitable case).

      The same cannot be said of Federal Circuit in may patent cases, though, where they seem to go to ridiculous lengths for the patent owner.

  9. Open Source Google by dejitaru · · Score: 2

    "As an open-source platform, Android is built upon the collaboration of the open-source community,” a Google spokesperson told VentureBeat.

    Is that why they are making 'closed source' versions of apps that was a part of the open source Android? Like Camera, Dialer, Keyboard, Contacts, Calendar, etc. It seems, if Google could, they would make Android closed source... I just take it that they don't want to pay licensing costs to Oracle anymore.

    1. Re:Open Source Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://android.googlesource.com/platform/packages/apps/Dialer/+/idea133-weekly-release/src/com/android/dialer/

      What do you call that, then?

    2. Re:Open Source Google by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Crappy old code they leave around to convince people with its utter crappiness to use Google proprietary stuff?
      (I don't know about the dialer specifically, but many of the OpenSource variants are left to rot and Google only maintains a proprietary version)

    3. Re:Open Source Google by jaklode · · Score: 1

      Is'nt the stock dialer updated, and the Google dialer only adds lookups on top of it?

  10. Re:Imposters gonna impost by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java, evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org...

  11. Re:Hahahahaha "the great advertiser" fucks up by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ouch! Nothing hurts like the truth apk and Jewgul the advertiser's reduced to impersonating you above!

  12. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: Still claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I gonna prove it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising. Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use MY HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  13. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: Still claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I gonna prove it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use MY HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  14. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: Still claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I gonna prove it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use MY HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  15. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: Still claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I gonna prove it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth th@ you aren't me & that you are a failure in life.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use MY HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  16. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  17. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: Still claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I gonna prove it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't me & that you are a failure in life.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use MY HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  18. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  19. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: Still claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I gonna prove it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't me & that you are a failure in life.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use MY HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  20. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: Still claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I gonna prove it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't me & that you are a failure in life.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use MY HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  21. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  22. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: Still claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I gonna prove it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't me & that you are a failure in life.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  23. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  24. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't me & that you are a failure in life.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  25. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: Still claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't me & that you are a failure in life.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  26. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: Still claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't me & that you are a failure in life.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  27. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't the real APK & that you are a failure in life.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  28. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  29. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't the real me & that you are a failure in life.

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  30. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't the real me & that you are a failure in life & can't achieve anything except impersonating "The Lord of Hosts".

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  31. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't the real me & that you are a failure in life & can't achieve anything except impersonating me, "The Lord of Hosts".

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  32. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you that I am the REAL APK. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't the real me & that you are a failure in life & can't achieve anything except impersonating me, "The Lord of Hosts".

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  33. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you that I am the REAL APK. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT werent advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is LAUGHABLE @ best. YOU know the truth that you aren't the real me & that you are a failure in life & can't achieve anything except impersonating me, "The Lord of Hosts".

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  34. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  35. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you that I am the REAL APK. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is just so LAUGHABLE. YOU know the truth that you aren't the real me & that you are a failure in life & can't achieve anything except impersonating me, "The Lord of Hosts".

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  36. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Ha Ha, funny little joke: claiming 2 be me. Yes, I don't have any limits to re-post, you are right about that & I am proving it to you that I am the REAL APK. YOU are just a fake & you even admit it => you claim that google are just about advertising while you push down this story down everybody's throats as if THAT weren't advertising.

    Your attempt @ impersonating me is just LAUGHABLE. YOU know the truth that you aren't the real me & that you are a failure in life & can't achieve anything except impersonating me, "The Lord of Hosts".

    APK

    P.S=> Google is a GREAT company with many good people working there. They use my HOSTS file engine, something you will NEVER achieve to write. The only stupid person here is YOU... apk

  37. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  38. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  39. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  40. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  41. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  42. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  43. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  44. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  45. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  46. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  47. My target spec is already the Replicant SDK by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Meh.

      My target spec is already the Replicant SDK, with all non-free Google API-s also ripped out. :)

  48. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  49. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  50. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  51. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  52. Oracle Lawyers Confused By Latest Google Move.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Oracle Lawyers Confused by Latest Google Move. Have no idea who to sue so sue themselves.

    Highly appropriate that the captcha is "losers." Which is a good description of Oracle/Larry Ellison.

  53. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  54. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  55. Re:Imitation = the sincerest form of flattery by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Great company? Wrong. Stupid using java evil advertiser losing to apk so badly you're impersonating him? http://developers.slashdot.org... the great "jewgul" is more like it.

  56. Re: OpenJDK is illegal too by Billly+Gates · · Score: 2

    Anything source compatible is copyright violation subject to the dmca thanks to the Oracle court case.

    Compatibility is intermingled with copyright. Terrible decision

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
  57. Apache Harmony by staalmannen · · Score: 4, Informative

    They never used Oracle/Sun Java but Apache Harmony due to the " no GPL in userspace" rule in Android. My guess is that this has nothing to do with Oracle and everything to do with that Apache harmony isdead and it is annoying to maintain a fork. Using OpenJDK could increase quality and security thanks to more eyeballs.

    1. Re:Apache Harmony by StormReaver · · Score: 1

      My guess is that this has nothing to do with Oracle and everything to do with that Apache harmony isdead and it is annoying to maintain a fork.

      Using OpenJDK insulates Android from Oracle lawsuits over Java.

  58. Re: OpenJDK is illegal too by jonwil · · Score: 1

    If Google were to replace their existing implementations of the Java APIs with the implementation from OpenJDK and followed the GPL in doing so, they would be legally in the clear since the GPL explicitly lets Google use that code (and those APIs) and says that doing so is not a copyright violation as long as you follow the license.

  59. Does this mean anything at all by Chrisq · · Score: 3, Insightful

    OpenJDK is 100% compatible with the Java public APIs. So they are switching to something which is the same ...

    1. Re:Does this mean anything at all by DevilM · · Score: 1

      That is Java 1.6, which is EOL.

    2. Re:Does this mean anything at all by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      *Sun/Oracle* Java 1.6 and 1.7 are EOL; *OpenJDK* 1.6 and 1.7 are not.

      (And Oracle still supports Java 1.6 and 1.7 in two cases: you are a paying customer of another Oracle product that bundles that version of Java or if you pay Oracle specifically for Java support.)

  60. Re: OpenJDK is illegal too by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    Anything source compatible is copyright violation subject to the dmca thanks to the Oracle court case.

    No, there might still be a fair use defense. Eagle Technologies copied the IBM bios, for example.
    The Oracle vs Google trial is ongoing, it is up to Google to present a fair-use defense (but these things move slowly).

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  61. Apache Harmony getting replaced by El_Muerte_TDS · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Wasn't Android using Apache Harmony as basis? Given that Harmony is no longer being developed due to OpenJDK being just as open and available, it's only a logical choice to upgrade to a modern Java API.

    Additionally, using OpenJDK instead of Harmony (or any other Java Classpath implementation) does nothing with respect to using "Oracle's Proprietary Java APIs".

    1. Re:Apache Harmony getting replaced by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It does if you consider that all the public Java APIs in question are subject to ORACLEs ( and before that Suns) copyright and therefore proprietary, which at least some Judges and Lawyers think ( not that I agree with them as a non lawyer ). Harmony unlike many other Java clones was never officially licensed, the OpenJDK in contrast is the official reference implementation and is released using a modified GPL ( with some linking exceptions added ). By moving to the OpenJDK Android avoids at least some licensing issues.

  62. Missed chance! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'd preferred an abbreviated version of that: "Google is ditching the Java". That's it. Short and sweet.

    Alas. No Christmas this time.

    1. Re:Missed chance! by Paradox · · Score: 1

      I think most Android developers would just be happy if Android wasn't locked to JDK6. A real christmas miracle would be if they could stop using Gradle and its outrageously long build times.

      --
      Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
  63. Wrong title by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    At least at this site posts should be accurate enough to distinguish between interface and implementation correctly.

    Title should state that next version will switch *implementation* of Java API from Google's proprietary *implementation* (taken from Apache Harmony as they had told the judge) to OpenJDK *implementation*.

    Ditching Java API (Application Programming *Interface*) would be a catastrophe for entire Android ecosystem as Google would need to reinvent all the library APIs for Java language. At that point Java would no longer be of any value to Google and they would be better off using other language and its libraries which may happen if "fair use" will not be granted by the court.

    The Java language value is number of developers using it. However the true wonder of the Java ecosystem are myriads of ready to use open source libraries. Without Java API implementation those libraries won't work.

  64. Oracle's open license is viral by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Seems like the scare tactics of the propriatory crowd were real, just misattributed. It's the propriatory side, as we always thought, but the "Open" license of Oracle that is viral.

    This inimical tactic will likely kill Java off, which will suit Microsoft no end.

    I wonder if a COO of Oracle is in line for a VP job at MS...

    1. Re:Oracle's open license is viral by Paradox · · Score: 1

      For the most part, Microsoft CLR users already don't care. Have you heard of IKVM? They're already yo-ho-ho-ing code like Zookeeper libraries and other stuff at a prodigous rate. And given that the CLR has versioning that lets it update its binary engine without deprecating the entire universe that came before, they're doing it with a language with features at least 5 years ahead of what the Java working groups are even considering.

      Given the open sourcing and license of the .NET core libraries, CoreCLR and compiler... Quite frankly the community would be better served if Google used the CLR. Microsoft actually doesn't need a lot of buy-in. They're already leading one of the top 5 most deployed binary platforms in the world. What they want is developers to recognize their platform is actually the technically superior and most open option.

      --
      Slashdot. It's Not For Common Sense
  65. The JVM is an abstraction, as so is SQL and MVC by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    ignorant rant mixed with bleats, snorts and narfs

    You work in the real world, eh? It sure shows.

  66. Inaccurate Heading!!!!!!!! by luis_a_espinal · · Score: 1

    Google Confirms Next Android Version Won't Use Oracle's Proprietary Java APIs

    That's not what Google is doing. It is switching the internals from Apache Harmony to OpenJDK. Seriously, who the fuck writes these titles and headings. Slashdot, news for nerds and hackers? Suuuuuuuuuuuuure.

    1. Re:Inaccurate Heading!!!!!!!! by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Google Confirms Next Android Version Won't Use Oracle's Proprietary Java APIs

      That's not what Google is doing. It is switching the internals from Apache Harmony to OpenJDK.

      Implications:

        * Google overcame their longstanding irrational anti-GPL bias, at least for the toolchain
        * Google follows the lead of IBM, 5 years later
        * Google finally saw the wisdom of going it alone with a project that end-of-lifed> 4 years ago
        * The Harmony project forced Sun/Oracle to fully GPL the JDK, achieving its primary goal, and after that had no reason to exist

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re:Inaccurate Heading!!!!!!!! by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      Further to that, Javalobby has the definitive analysis and answers a bunch of misconceptions.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  67. javax.swing by tepples · · Score: 1

    OpenJDK is 100% compatible with the Java public APIs.

    Does this mean Swing apps will run on Android?

  68. Re: OpenJDK is illegal too by amorsen · · Score: 1

    The IBM vs. Compaq case about BIOS would almost certainly have gone the other way today if it had not by itself set a precedent.

    At the time, copyright was a more limited concept, and a work had to show artistic merit to be protected. It was decided that the mere functionality of a program did not have artistic merit, only the particular expression, and Compaq only copied the functionality without copying the particular expression. Today the same applies in theory, but the standards for what is required for sufficient artistic merit to be worthy of copyright protection have slipped to the point where pretty much anything goes.

    The outcome of Oracle vs. Google is going to be extremely interesting and potentially very damaging to the software industry.

    --
    Finally! A year of moderation! Ready for 2019?
  69. Re: OpenJDK is illegal too by phantomfive · · Score: 1

    The IBM vs. Compaq case about BIOS would almost certainly have gone the other way today if it had not by itself set a precedent.

    Maybe. There's a clear interoperability clause written into copyright law now, so it seems like it would probably still go the same way.

    The weakness in Google's fair-use interoperability defense is that they didn't use Java for interoperability purposes. So I'm interested in seeing which way the case will go, but I don't have much hope for them.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  70. Re:Eclipse didn't work very well with the OpenJDK. by peacefool · · Score: 1

    The source, please?
    Is the situation different [and Eclipse fully supports OpenJDK] now?